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| Ridiculous ends of battle!!! :( |
| Amazing episode. The action, music, and those feelings at the end of the episode. That was nice conclusion for Archer. |
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leNerd said: I finally took the time to finish this series, and i guess this was a worthy end. What i didnt get is how archer was able to come back for a deus ex machina to save Tohsaka and Emiya? Gil didn't kill in him in the first place. |
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| Decent, I guess I didn't think it would be this melodramatic. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| While the fighting looked pretty neat and all and it was nice to see Exaclibur again I have one question: Why did Archer return? Gilgamesh killed him back then, so how could he possibly be there again? O_O Also after Shinji did not actually die last time and this episode had Archer and Gilgamesh dying, this is the new best episode of this show xD |
Gator said: While the fighting looked pretty neat and all and it was nice to see Exaclibur again I have one question: Why did Archer return? Gilgamesh killed him back then, so how could he possibly be there again? O_O Also after Shinji did not actually die last time and this episode had Archer and Gilgamesh dying, this is the new best episode of this show xD The official explanation is that Archer faked his death and went into spirit form then hid and who knows what methods he used to regain his mana to save Rin at the last moment. Now the question would be why didn't Gil and Saber notice him? At the end of Fate/Zero Gil was incarnated after being bathed by the liquid that the corrupted Holy Grail spewed so whether he can still perceive Servants in spirit form is still a mystery but most likely not. Without going into full details as it's already spoiler territory in the Fate route, Saber herself isn't really a proper Heroic Spirit either so just like Gil, whether she can also perceive Servants in spirit form is also unanswered but my guess would be most likely no, she cannot. Another theory is that the World helped Archer since at that time, the Grail was about to annihilate humanity so in response, the World sent a Counter Guardian to that area which is Archer himself but like I said, this is only a theory and an official explanation was already provided but I thought this was interesting and far more believable than the official one. |
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Tenshi_Shura said: Gator said: While the fighting looked pretty neat and all and it was nice to see Exaclibur again I have one question: Why did Archer return? Gilgamesh killed him back then, so how could he possibly be there again? O_O Also after Shinji did not actually die last time and this episode had Archer and Gilgamesh dying, this is the new best episode of this show xD The official explanation is that Archer faked his death and went into spirit form then hid and who knows what methods he used to regain his mana to save Rin at the last moment. Now the question would be why didn't Gil and Saber notice him? At the end of Fate/Zero Gil was incarnated after being bathed by the liquid that the corrupted Holy Grail spewed so whether he can still perceive Servants in spirit form is still a mystery but most likely not. Without going into full details as it's already spoiler territory in the Fate route, Saber herself isn't really a proper Heroic Spirit either so just like Gil, whether she can also perceive Servants in spirit form is also unanswered but my guess would be most likely no, she cannot. Another theory is that the World helped Archer since at that time, the Grail was about to annihilate humanity so in response, the World sent a Counter Guardian to that area which is Archer himself but like I said, this is only a theory and an official explanation was already provided but I thought this was interesting and far more believable than the official one. That official explanation seems kinda far fetched though, since Gilgamesh impaled him with like 4 swords or something? Even if he was able to get away in that state, there would still be the question standing how he was able to regain his mana just like that. While Saber and Gilgamesh might not be able to perceive him, it just seems highly unlikely that he could pull this off in general. Ignoring the fact that I didn't even know "The World" exists, why would he/she/it/they only provide him with enough mana to last a few moments before he had to disappear again? Overall it seems like it just happened because the story demanded it which is something I dislike in general :P |
Gator said: Tenshi_Shura said: The official explanation is that Archer faked his death and went into spirit form then hid and who knows what methods he used to regain his mana to save Rin at the last moment. Now the question would be why didn't Gil and Saber notice him? At the end of Fate/Zero Gil was incarnated after being bathed by the liquid that the corrupted Holy Grail spewed so whether he can still perceive Servants in spirit form is still a mystery but most likely not. Without going into full details as it's already spoiler territory in the Fate route, Saber herself isn't really a proper Heroic Spirit either so just like Gil, whether she can also perceive Servants in spirit form is also unanswered but my guess would be most likely no, she cannot. Another theory is that the World helped Archer since at that time, the Grail was about to annihilate humanity so in response, the World sent a Counter Guardian to that area which is Archer himself but like I said, this is only a theory and an official explanation was already provided but I thought this was interesting and far more believable than the official one. That official explanation seems kinda far fetched though, since Gilgamesh impaled him with like 4 swords or something? Even if he was able to get away in that state, there would still be the question standing how he was able to regain his mana just like that. While Saber and Gilgamesh might not be able to perceive him, it just seems highly unlikely that he could pull this off in general. Ignoring the fact that I didn't even know "The World" exists, why would he/she/it/they only provide him with enough mana to last a few moments before he had to disappear again? Overall it seems like it just happened because the story demanded it which is something I dislike in general :P Servants have spiritual cores and as long as it is not directly damaged, a servant can still survive despite sustaining damage. However, servant's spiritual cores gradually diminishes as they expend mana and take physical damage and this is where Archer's Rank B Independent Action saved him. Because after the Grail was destroyed and Gilgamesh's defeat, the World recognized that there was no more danger so the Counter Guardian has already fulfilled his duties and is sent to another area where he is needed. |
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Tenshi_Shura said: Gator said: That official explanation seems kinda far fetched though, since Gilgamesh impaled him with like 4 swords or something? Even if he was able to get away in that state, there would still be the question standing how he was able to regain his mana just like that. While Saber and Gilgamesh might not be able to perceive him, it just seems highly unlikely that he could pull this off in general. Ignoring the fact that I didn't even know "The World" exists, why would he/she/it/they only provide him with enough mana to last a few moments before he had to disappear again? Overall it seems like it just happened because the story demanded it which is something I dislike in general :P Servants have spiritual cores and as long as it is not directly damaged, a servant can still survive despite sustaining damage. However, servant's spiritual cores gradually diminishes as they expend mana and take physical damage and this is where Archer's Rank B Independent Action saved him. Because after the Grail was destroyed and Gilgamesh's defeat, the World recognized that there was no more danger so the Counter Guardian has already fulfilled his duties and is sent to another area where he is needed. Hmm well it is an explanation, though not a very good one. Still counts as "just because" in my book really ^^ Ah I see, that makes sense actually. They should've gone with that explanation instead officially xD |
Gator said: Ah I see, that makes sense actually. They should've gone with that explanation instead officially xD The problem with that explanation is that CGs don't just resolve issues, they literally kill everyone and level the entire area. They don't just remove the problem, they erase every single thing in a large radius around it to ensure nothing survives. If this was CG Archer, he'd have killed Gil, Shirou, Rin and probably the entire population of Fuyuki by nuking it alongside the Greater Grail. |
astroprogs said: Gator said: Ah I see, that makes sense actually. They should've gone with that explanation instead officially xD The problem with that explanation is that CGs don't just resolve issues, they literally kill everyone and level the entire area. They don't just remove the problem, they erase every single thing in a large radius around it to ensure nothing survives. If this was CG Archer, he'd have killed Gil, Shirou, Rin and probably the entire population of Fuyuki by nuking it alongside the Greater Grail. Forgot about that detail. Damn. Thanks for reminding me. |
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Gator said: Tenshi_Shura said: Servants have spiritual cores and as long as it is not directly damaged, a servant can still survive despite sustaining damage. However, servant's spiritual cores gradually diminishes as they expend mana and take physical damage and this is where Archer's Rank B Independent Action saved him. Because after the Grail was destroyed and Gilgamesh's defeat, the World recognized that there was no more danger so the Counter Guardian has already fulfilled his duties and is sent to another area where he is needed. Hmm well it is an explanation, though not a very good one. Still counts as "just because" in my book really ^^ Ah I see, that makes sense actually. They should've gone with that explanation instead officially xD The world has nothing to do with it. Archer simply had enough mana left to survive. Mind you in the actual canon, he only really cast UBW once(against Shirou) so its not surprising he would have at least something left. Well technically he should only have been able to cast UBW once with what he has so him casting it against Saber(for no reason at all) and against Shirou should not have been possible at all. Its simply leftover mana and determination/will(since even if insane, he is still Shirou). The World technically does not interfere until the actual problem manifests itself. If Archer appeared as Counter Guardian there, the whole Japan would most likely be erased from the map by him. |
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Fai said: Gator said: Hmm well it is an explanation, though not a very good one. Still counts as "just because" in my book really ^^ Ah I see, that makes sense actually. They should've gone with that explanation instead officially xD The world has nothing to do with it. Archer simply had enough mana left to survive. Mind you in the actual canon, he only really cast UBW once(against Shirou) so its not surprising he would have at least something left. Well technically he should only have been able to cast UBW once with what he has so him casting it against Saber(for no reason at all) and against Shirou should not have been possible at all. Its simply leftover mana and determination/will(since even if insane, he is still Shirou). The World technically does not interfere until the actual problem manifests itself. If Archer appeared as Counter Guardian there, the whole Japan would most likely be erased from the map by him. I still can't see why he would be perfectly fine when he reappeared after getting impaled by 4 or something swords before. Sorry makes no sense to me :< |
Gator said: I still can't see why he would be perfectly fine when he reappeared after getting impaled by 4 or something swords before. Sorry makes no sense to me :< A servant by its nature is a ghost-liner, a spirit that manifests itself into a material body form via available mana. A true servant body is simply a core that houses it with the rest of the body formed out of mana. As long as the core is not damaged(or they do not run out of mana needed to sustain the form) they can be fine even after worst injuries. One could deduce form that that as long as you don't behead them or don't destroy their heart they should be fine as long as the damage is not beyond repair. Even in the prologue Saber survived a spear in the chest and was relatively fine afterward. All that means is that none of the swords hit the actual core. Afterward he went into the spirit form to conserve mana(so he does not have to use mana to maintain his physical form) and waited for the right moment to do something, after which he died because he was unable to sustain his form anymore. The fact that he is an Archer, which means his consumption of mana to sustain himself is incredibly low(so low he can last for days without a master while any other class servant would perish in less than a hour or so), also helps. |
AhenshihaelApr 4, 2017 3:58 AM
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| Nice to see Excalibur. Some great action in this episode. That head shot from Archer though. An awful way to die. The last episode is an Epilogue. |
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| Amazing episode!!! But kinda mixed in some things. Excalibaaah!!!!!!!! Even though I love the move!! I still prefer Fate Zero. It has more impact in her voice as well as the proper build up. Here, she just gained the mana the last minute and was forced to used it by Rin. Yeah, it was kinda cheap that Archer appeared out of nowhere and saves the day. Even saved both Rin and Shirou at the same time before disappearing completely. Saber is gone as well?! Any of this spirit can always come back eh? I fucking love the fight between Gilgamesh and Shirou! The fact that Gilgamesh keeps underestimating Shirou and all and even hesitated in using Ea the last moment. Shirou really pushed him to the limits. I'm sure the visual novel game is much better in terms of characterization and build up(I already felt like the show was rushing towards the end), but damn the animation is just too godly!! I wish Berserk was handled by Ufotable. Will definitely be better than the one they had right now. Last episode!!! Gonna watch the OVA to see the difference as well. |
| Shirou cutting off Gilgamesh's arm before he could use Ea was epic, as was their fight in UBW in general. The feels got me pretty hard with Saber disappearing (especially since Shirou didn't really get a proper goodbye) and the Rin/Archer goodbye. Would have loved if they could somehow stay in this world, but I guess that's not how the game works. Looking forwards to the epilogue. |
| The animation is top notch. Pretty cool, considering the crappy storyline... |
Gator said: Tenshi_Shura said: The official explanation is that Archer faked his death and went into spirit form then hid and who knows what methods he used to regain his mana to save Rin at the last moment. Now the question would be why didn't Gil and Saber notice him? At the end of Fate/Zero Gil was incarnated after being bathed by the liquid that the corrupted Holy Grail spewed so whether he can still perceive Servants in spirit form is still a mystery but most likely not. Without going into full details as it's already spoiler territory in the Fate route, Saber herself isn't really a proper Heroic Spirit either so just like Gil, whether she can also perceive Servants in spirit form is also unanswered but my guess would be most likely no, she cannot. Another theory is that the World helped Archer since at that time, the Grail was about to annihilate humanity so in response, the World sent a Counter Guardian to that area which is Archer himself but like I said, this is only a theory and an official explanation was already provided but I thought this was interesting and far more believable than the official one. That official explanation seems kinda far fetched though, since Gilgamesh impaled him with like 4 swords or something? Even if he was able to get away in that state, there would still be the question standing how he was able to regain his mana just like that. While Saber and Gilgamesh might not be able to perceive him, it just seems highly unlikely that he could pull this off in general. Ignoring the fact that I didn't even know "The World" exists, why would he/she/it/they only provide him with enough mana to last a few moments before he had to disappear again? Overall it seems like it just happened because the story demanded it which is something I dislike in general :P have u not paid attention? servants can remain in human world without master if they drain mana from humans (it was explained in anime) caster did that to, but for different reason & massively, did archer do it to who knows maybe he had some reserved & maybe he took only a little bit cause u so what the result is if u drain a lot of mana from ppl |
| How the fuck did Archer come back the only good thing about this episode was excalibur and the OST |
| Wow now this show deserves a 9/10 |
| WTF kind of dues ex machina bullshit win, oh you wont pull me in fat chance ill loose my arm oh no stay there,,, well ya know,, at least until i get back over to you my little Mongrel friend you bla bla bla bla more bullshit halfass dialogue. How the fuck do you royally ruin such a great idea and turn it into a pile of steaming shit. |
| That's good but episode 15 remains the best episode. |
| Wait what? Archer appearing out of nowhere? The heck.. That's a convenient plot point if I ever saw one lol I didn't feel the rush in the last few EP's but this one, I really felt it. Not sure why though hmm Anyways, last EP to go! |
XiferVPOct 12, 2018 1:12 AM
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XiferVP said: Wait what? Archer appearing of nowehere? The heck.. That a convenient plot point if I ever saw one lol I didn't feel the rush in the last few EP's but this one, I really felt it. Not sure why though hmm Anyways, last EP to go! I guess it was his tactic to pretend that he died in that hall, it surprised me also... |
 V I S I T M Y 【P R O F I L E 💕】 |
| Headshot bitch! That makes up for what he did to Illya. Ah Excalibur... still the best looking Noble Phantasm in Stay/Night... Assassin's is a close 2nd. Best version of Shirou imo, he's too badass here. Onwards to the epilogue! |
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| That moment where Blondie lost his arm. I've been waiting since Illya |
kitten320 said: Wait what? Archer was killed off, there were clear swords popping out of him and he was already low on mana and close to vanishing so WTF? independent action skill allows him to remain in this world for a few days without a master, and since he had very low magical energy left, he remained in spirit form and waited for the right chance to use the last drops of it, to help Shirou and Rin. you could also say he was testing Shirou to the very end, seeing whether he can overcome Gil or not. although this part was never very convincing to me either, I’ll give you that. both the VN and this anime could’ve done a better job of hinting that Archer may have survived. kitten320 said: Even though F/SN is original, I don't think I'll ever be able to accept it as good. Half of the staff in it makes no sense. To start with, how on earth teenagers are considered worthy mages to fight in a biggest magic fight? you don’t need to be an adult to be considered a good enough mage to participate in the grail war. for the most part, the grail is what chooses the masters, and it doesn’t care whether someone is an adult or not. from my perspective, age doesn’t seem to matter much in the world of magi either, mage families start teaching their successors about magic and transfer the family’s magic crest to them over time at a very young age. you could have a talented teenage magus from a well known magus family, with a good quality of magic circuits + their family’s magic crest, and an adult magus from a mediocre family who can’t do much against that teenager kitten320 said: Especially when you have all those guys from back in Fate/Zero? Like come on. kitten320 said: And I know Fate/Zero was done after but I still hate how F/SN barely even mentions any of the past events, like if they never even happened. 1. this anime references FZ on a few occasions, sometimes adding dumb filler to do so 2. UBW is the route that has the least connection with FZ’s events 3. like you said yourself, FZ wasn’t even thought of as a concept before FSN’s story was completed, so obviously it will still feel disconnected like this as a result that does happen. |
matheoo41 said: Archer's comeback has to be one of the biggest asspulls ever.With this ep the show dropped from 6 to 4 for me and I don't think there's anything that can make it go up in the last ep, not even my love for Yuki Kajiura's music. It's a shame, that a show in which people put so much work, ended up this bad. Lmao... I decide to go back to this thread years later and there's still people bitching about this. Also, Fukasawa composed UBW, not Kajiura(she does compose HF though). |
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| Hory shiet the animation quality is insane. Thats no 2015 anime. More like 2050. Also EVA exupurosions. Very neat overall. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
| Gilgamesh downfall caused by his own pride. Lol, Rin still wanna make a pact with Archer when the war is over. This episode really left a large hole on the plot. So many asspulls as well. Though some of the VN player clarified it. Maybe this is a marketing strategy,lol. |
| He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame. |
| This ending was pretty decent, I guess. I liked it better than in the Deen anime. In the Deen anime, Saber and Shirou apparently just powered up via sheer shounen willpower and beat Gilgamesh and Kotomine by brute force. In this ending, at least there is a good explanation for why Shirou's powers are effective against Gilgamesh specifically. Having the Archer suddenly be alive was confusing and unsatisfying. It has been explained in this thread HOW it happened, but in the show it still LOOKED as something that came out of nowhere. I still don't like Shirou, but at least I hate him less than I did in the first half (and in the Deen anime). I have trouble with Gilgamesh. I don't understand why many people like him. To me he is an annoying and un-enjoyable villain. He's just an overpowered asshole. His powers are not interesting; he's just ridiculously OP and invincible unless you have a very specific counter. That feels contrived. His personality is even less interesting. He's arrogant. That is his ONLY trait. I didn't even hate him, I was just going: "Urgh, can we get rid of him already?" Maybe he is more interesting in the VN or the F/Z LNs. In the two animes, he is just a big bully. He's a beefed-up version of Matou Shinji. This episode was a decent conclusion to the main conflict, I guess, but nothing special. |
| I knew it. Archer is still alive. I'm surprised that Shirou defeated Gilgamesh. That smile in the end lol. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| ok like it becomes more and more epic.... seems like anything can happen now |
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| Deus ex machina archer. Didnt like this |
| I hate Gil, but i love his laugh. It's so contagious. |
XiferVP said: Wait what? Archer appearing out of nowhere? The heck.. That's a convenient plot point if I ever saw one lol I didn't feel the rush in the last few EP's but this one, I really felt it. Not sure why though hmm Anyways, last EP to go! After gilgamesh attacked archer, he returned to his spirit form. After that, he consumed the spirits of the Einzbern forest to survive and heal himself. He also got "independent action", a skill that allows him to stay in the world without a master(for a restricted time). Nasu also confirmed this theory by himself. So he used his remaining power to help shirou and rin in the end, so he was never dead to begin with. After the explosion of gilgameshs attack we only see a glimmer of light. This light can also be seen, when he change to the spirit form in previous episodes (not only if a servant die). Sadly, this isn't very well explained in the anime and even the vn. |
TypeMercury94Oct 29, 2020 3:36 AM
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xeonite said: Archer certainly wasn't supposed to be alive, they didn't even give any explanation on how. Gilgamesh—while we got a decent explanation on how—shouldn't have lost no matter what. Seems like whoever is the author of this piece of work, just really likes the incarnation-of-boring, Shirou. I suppose this is why authors need to refrain from creating villains that are just outrageously too powerful; no matter how or why, their defeat will never look rational or "working." The main reason for gilgamesh's defeat is definitely his big ego. He didn't fight shirou seriously, because he could easily kill him with ea or just use the chain of heavens (enkidu) to bind him. But he would never use his most beloved treasures against a "Mongrel" (that's just gilgamesh xD). He only go all out if he consider his opponent as a worthy foe. The system behind Unlimited Blade Works can counter the gate of Babylon weapons. The copy can go up against the original. Furthermore, Gilgamesh himself isn't that good as a swordsman, he's a king (not a warrior). Gil didn't refined one specific fighting style like other heroic spirits, so his biggest advantage is his infinite amount of treasures (Shirou even explained it during the fight). In other words: Gilgamesh should have killed shirou, before ubw was casted. You can also see how he hesitate to use his strongest weapon EA, because he couldn't accept this outcome due to his pride (until the end). Furthermore, shirou got the magical crest of rin transplanted into his body, so he got only a limited time to make use of it. That's how he could create ubw. I also explain the lore behind magic crests : Without a magic crest, you've basically have to start from scratch, and you would accomplish nothing of worth. Getting a Magic Crest essentially makes you automatically learn everything learned by all those who had that crest before you. In other words, it's a way for a mage family to continue their research after they die. Your can pick up right where you're ancestors left off and continue trying to reach the root. That's why it is so powerful and gave shirou a limited boost of his abilitys. |
TypeMercury94Oct 29, 2020 3:34 AM
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kitten320 said: Wait what? Archer was killed off, there were clear swords popping out of him and he was already low on mana and close to vanishing so WTF? Don't even get me started on most powerful servant being defeated by Shirou... Even though F/SN is original, I don't think I'll ever be able to accept it as good. Half of the staff in it makes no sense. To start with, how on earth teenagers are considered worthy mages to fight in a biggest magic fight? Especially when you have all those guys from back in Fate/Zero? Like come on. And I know Fate/Zero was done after but I still hate how F/SN barely even mentions any of the past events, like if they never even happened. Can at least someone explain why in all these years Kiritsugu not once visited or tried to help Ilya? Irisviel would so not approve. Actually hate that Saber not once mentions either of the 3 despite having big connection with them. Due to of the outcome in zero, the holy grail war starts 20 years earlier than regular. So the hires of each founder family are much younger than usually. How should most of the participants know about everything of the past grail war? Most of them were still kids during this time lol He actually tried to visit illya! There a conversation of fujimura and sakura about kiritsugu in lost butterfly. Illya overheard his conversation in that scene. Kiritsugu traveled alot to a foreign country, because he wanted to find someone important. Why he didn't find illya? Isn't explained exactly. Most likely, the Einzbern Family prevent him to do so. Most of the mages are very cold hearted and they might didn't want him to interfere with illya's preparations for the next grail war. Furthermore, kiritsugu destroyed the grail instead of obtaining him for the Einzbern family, so he is probably seen as a traitor. Thats my explanation if I consider every scene of the anime. My explanation about gilgamesh's defeat it above this comment xD The main problem about fate/stay night is, that you have tp pay alot of attention to the dialogs and need to know all routes to get the full picture. Zero is also a great addition to the story. |
TypeMercury94Oct 29, 2020 3:33 AM
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