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| Nice episode.. Saber sure is strong.. can't wait to see next ep..But the background doesn't look like Romania hahahahaha |
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HeroVladimir93 said: Also, I don't know much about Frankenstein's Monster but I'm sure fans of the original novel wouldn't be happy about what this show did to Frankenstein's Monster, but hey, it has to be better than anything Universal is planning, right? ;) One of Frankenstein's monsters were female tho, from Bride of Frankenstein. |
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joshua10red said: Nice episode.. Saber sure is strong.. can't wait to see next ep..But the background doesn't look like Romania hahahahaha ya sure? a guy made a comparasion in prev page. |
| Turning Jack the Ripper into a little girl is so fucking stupid. My god. And the scene between Astolfo and his master was stupid as shit as well. I'm interested in seeing more from Mordred, Sisigou, Shakespeare and Shirou Kotomine though. And I liked the OST. I'll give it a few more episodes. |
| Damn the animation was impressive! So was the soundtrack, good job A-1! I think I have a weak spot for Sabers. I like them all dammit! Aka no Saber is sucha chill character while Kuro no Saber is freakin Sigeheart! |
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CommanderParagon said: Turning Jack the Ripper into a little girl is so fucking stupid. She actually has a pretty good backstory and a reason for being what she is. If you're interested: |
astroprogs said: CommanderParagon said: Turning Jack the Ripper into a little girl is so fucking stupid. She actually has a pretty good backstory and a reason for being what she is. If you're interested: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. |
CommanderParagon said: astroprogs said: She actually has a pretty good backstory and a reason for being what she is. If you're interested: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. This seems like more of a hate of lolis, rather than the quality of the writing. Why is her being a loli bad, from a narrative standpoint? I'm not talking about your personal preferences, I'm asking how does it harm the narrative? I take Jack's character seriously because the writing itself didn't give me any reason not to. It explained why it's different and unique and did it well. |
| The OP is pretty good. Got to see some backstory for Jeanne's past. She was burned at the stake. More characters were introduced. The fact that Jack the Ripper is a little girls is amusing. Mordred and her master make a great duo. Their fight was very cool. |
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| Oh, decent ED song. Seems like this episode was still kinda an introduction one, since we got more servants introduced. |
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astroprogs said: This seems like more of a hate of lolis, rather than the quality of the writing. Why is her being a loli bad, from a narrative standpoint? I'm not talking about your personal preferences, I'm asking how does it harm the narrative? I take Jack's character seriously because the writing itself didn't give me any reason not to. It explained why it's different and unique and did it well. It's both. Lolis are stupid, and lolis in a war are especially stupid. She can't be taken seriously because in a war of historical, mythological, and classic fictional characters, I find it hard to believe a child is going to be someone to be feared. It really shouldn't take explaining why having Jack the Ripper be a little girl in an action anime is a bad idea. |
CommanderParagon said: astroprogs said: She actually has a pretty good backstory and a reason for being what she is. If you're interested: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. Agreed. Zero sold like hotcakes and it had no fanservice (it's one of the few anime that I can show to my family because of that) so I don’t understand why they felt that they had to include shitty anime fanservice in latter works. |
CommanderParagon said: astroprogs said: This seems like more of a hate of lolis, rather than the quality of the writing. Why is her being a loli bad, from a narrative standpoint? I'm not talking about your personal preferences, I'm asking how does it harm the narrative? I take Jack's character seriously because the writing itself didn't give me any reason not to. It explained why it's different and unique and did it well. It's both. Lolis are stupid, and lolis in a war are especially stupid. She can't be taken seriously because in a war of historical, mythological, and classic fictional characters, I find it hard to believe a child is going to be someone to be feared. It really shouldn't take explaining why having Jack the Ripper be a little girl in an action anime is a bad idea. You lost the right to demand realism and any resemblance of historical accuracy when female King Arthur was introduced. It just doesn't suit your personal preferences, so let's not pretend otherwise. |
fejita said: shooting laser beams from a sword is realistic as shit tho right I find jack a revolting insult too but you've come to the wrong medium if suspension of disbelief is beyond you There's a difference between over-the-top magical abilities to support fantasy action in this medium, and Jack the Ripper being a kid to pander to the worst parts of the anime community and expecting me to take this series seriously. Yeah, that. astroprogs said: You lost the right to demand realism and any resemblance of historical accuracy when female King Arthur was introduced. It just doesn't suit your personal preferences, so let's not pretend otherwise. It's not historical accuracy that bothers me, it's that out of all the interesting things they could do with Jack the Ripper in a fantasy action series, they mad him/her a loli. Female Arthur is still an adult. Key difference. And it makes more than a little sense that a warrior as capable as she is would have to hide her gender in her society. And I'm not claiming this has nothing to do with my preferences? It's my opinion on a forum discussion. |
CommanderParagonJul 9, 2017 1:58 PM
astroprogs said: CommanderParagon said: It's both. Lolis are stupid, and lolis in a war are especially stupid. She can't be taken seriously because in a war of historical, mythological, and classic fictional characters, I find it hard to believe a child is going to be someone to be feared. It really shouldn't take explaining why having Jack the Ripper be a little girl in an action anime is a bad idea. You lost the right to demand realism and any resemblance of historical accuracy when female King Arthur was introduced. It just doesn't suit your personal preferences, so let's not pretend otherwise. Arthuria isn't a half naked loli with ridiculous hips wearing a G-string.... |
CommanderParagon said: astroprogs said: She actually has a pretty good backstory and a reason for being what she is. If you're interested: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. Funny since the writer for Fate Zero, Gen Urobuchi, is the one who originally came up with the concept for Jack's backstory |
8mmspikes said: Funny since the writer for Fate Zero, Gen Urobuchi, is the one who originally came up with the concept for Jack's backstory That's more than a little disappointing to hear, but it doesn't change my opinion. |
| What a bunch of idiots - all of them. The only competent ones are probably just Sisigo and Mordred (yeah, "daugther" of Arturia and Morgana), and maybe Semiramis too but that's all. Not to mention most of the scenes was pretty cheesy too. Is this supposed to be a comedy? Somehow, I doubt it. Don't like the OP, not fan of the ED, and the battles where actors are constantly "teleporting" to save the budget are bad too, even though this time it wasn't as bad as the last time. Somehow, I think A-1 don't really understand how to handle this franchise well. Sigh... |
| Oh boy the shitstorm in the discussion is real with this... The scene with Siegfried was little different in the book his master specifically said that his name is like the Excalibur for Arthur so it must be not revealed (because of his greatest weakness). Anyway great episode, i was hoping to see the scene from Rouen and it is here nice. Nice combat music in the backround whille Mordred was fighting, i like how mordred refereing to Arturia as father and Le Fay as mother. Next episode will be hot boys - Karna on the scene... Also nice OP and ED. Btw when Frankenstein-chan became tsundere ? _D |
SwagernatorJul 9, 2017 2:23 PM
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CommanderParagon said: It's not historical accuracy that bothers me, it's that out of all the interesting things they could do with Jack the Ripper in a fantasy action series, they mad him/her a loli. Female Arthur is still an adult. Key difference. And it makes more than a little sense that a warrior as capable as she is would have to hide her gender in her society. And I'm not claiming this has nothing to do with my preferences? It's my opinion on a forum discussion. Since this obviously won't go anywhere because we're discussing prefrences, i'll just reiterate on what i said before. I'm perfectly alright with anything as long as they explain it well and make it interesting. Jack being what she is interesting because it's a take i haven't seen before on the character that's actually explained well. Jack's story makes as much sense as Artoria, in their respective context. Nobody knows what Jack the Ripper even is, he could be what this Jack is and it puts a good twist on it (the killer being the victims themselves). Saying that Jack's bacstory was made to justify her being a loli is ironic because that was exactly how Artoria was conceived. Her entire backstory was rewritten to justify having her being a female heroine and a romantic interest in F/SN. My problem isn't with your preferences, my problem is with disregarding everything around the character because you just simply don't like her design and then claiming that it's not ALL personal preference. J1m1s said: Arthuria isn't a half naked loli with ridiculous hips wearing a G-string.... No, she just had magical male genitalia. That's way more acceptable. Drake1000 said: Let's just genderbend everyone then? See that's the thing not everyone is genderbent, there are more non genderbent than genderbent servants. It's just that Takeuchi fag that genderbends historical figures on a whim. Again, historical accuracy shouldn't really be your criteria in Fate. This was never the focus of the franchise, even all the way back to Prototype. Fate's historical figures are written to be interesting first and foremost. Genderbending every single character isn't interesting. Putting unique twists on them is. If that twist happens to be a genderbend for some of them, granted it's well-written and justified, I'd say absolutely go for it. |
astroprogsJul 9, 2017 2:25 PM
| Poor Jeanne, her death is too tragic. |
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8mmspikes said: CommanderParagon said: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. Funny since the writer for Fate Zero, Gen Urobuchi, is the one who originally came up with the concept for Jack's backstory That's not true, he designed the background of Vlad and Spartacus only. In Apo a lot of developers got to design only 2 characters, thats why the Servants designs are so different. BTW, Jack is not my favorite... but is not that bad compared to Frankenstein... with Jack at least you can justify it with a messed backstory... but the essence of The Monster of Frankenstein is to be something scary, a huge abomination, a cute Frankestein waifu its like a vampire with no teeth or a werewolve with no fur. |
| <img src="http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6832/anigiftus.gif"/> |
Mich666 said: the battles where actors are constantly "teleporting" to save the budget are bad too, even though this time it wasn't as bad as the last time. Somehow, I think A-1 don't really understand how to handle this franchise well. Sigh... I don't understand. These are super powerful beings. Of course they'll be extremely fast in combat and to the normal viewer watching the fight, it'll be a bunch of sparks and the servants would look like they're teleporting. The light novel describes how motred moves like a a speeding bullet and makes her main highlight as being incredibly fast and aggressive. Go ahead and tell me how you would animate it to make it fit that description. I find it embarrassingly ridiculous how you think it's because they're trying to save the budget. You do realize ufotable does the exact same thing right? Like, do you think you can clearly see the entire movement of a bullet? |
FlamingMangosJul 9, 2017 2:52 PM
astroprogs said: Genderbending every single character isn't interesting. Putting unique twists on them is. If that twist happens to be a genderbend for some of them, granted it's well-written and justified, I'd say absolutely go for it. Please. While it makes sense with Red Saber, Saber of Red and Saber, most of the rest of heroes are genderbent for sole reason of fanservice so otakus can gamble for their waifus. Stop defending it. |
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Fai said: astroprogs said: Genderbending every single character isn't interesting. Putting unique twists on them is. If that twist happens to be a genderbend for some of them, granted it's well-written and justified, I'd say absolutely go for it. Please. While it makes sense with Red Saber, Saber of Red and Saber, most of the rest of heroes are genderbent for sole reason of fanservice so otakus can gamble for their waifus. Stop defending it. Why are you talking about a work that has nothing to do with Apocrypha? A work that i neither defended nor even mentioned in my post about Jack? Yes, some GO Servants are just pure fanservice with flimsy justifications, if any. Jack, however, isn't a designed-for-F/GO Servant and her backstory makes perfect sense. |
| Frankenstein deserves a hug. I'm just saiyan. Feels bad for Astolfo due to the quality of his master...poor kiddo. And why do I feel like Shiro is the filthy casual of the entire group? Also, Mordred, your tsun is showing in between your daddy issue moments. My boy Karna showing up at the end, hopefully his design doesn't look like he has an eating disorder. Anywho, I'm hoping A-1 stays consistent with the quality and improves on some of the fight sequences. That's what I'm most worried about when it comes to this series and them animating it. The OP is okay...kinda disappointed by it especially since EGOIST puts out some top tier music. This one is kinda lacking and the ED is...it's just there. Till next week. |
| Don't believe the hype. |
astroprogs said: No, she just had magical male genitalia. That's way more acceptable. Why are you bringing something that had nothing to do and was never even alluded in the adaptation as an argument? A female Jack that kills because she was abandoned by her mother isn’t a bad take on the legend but it doesn’t justify her design being as ridiculous as it is ! A half naked loli with huge hips wearing a G-string! It's obvious that she is in for loli fanservice and not to be interesting.The same goes for Frankenstein's monster, her being a cute waifu doesn't add anything other than otaku pandering. According with what you said even an abomination like Passionlip from fate/extra ccc can be considered a good character and be taken seriously as long as ''they explain it well and make it interesting' |
| I love this episode, A-1 is really trying their best with this one and it shows. Overall nice episode, Astolfo and Mordred really steal the show so far. And we got introduced to a bunch of important characters. If Apocrypha is doing somethign good it's showing how there is no definite line between good and bad faction. Both have their share of good and bad guys. But it really surprised me how people choose to complain about the smallest things... Most complains I heard is about Jeanne's execution - how she looks too clean. They expected bruisers and scars all over her body and dirty clothing. Something akin to Jesus when he was carrying the cross. Of course not many people know history, how she was bathed and given clean clothing by Englishmen one day before she was burned, and that is why she is so clean. And it shows how Fate community knows little about history as none complained about two biggest inaccuracies in that scene - how she was long hair even if her hair was kept short in order to prevent guards from raping her. And the biggest inaccuracy in that scene - the little girl who gave her the cross. Yes, she was given the cross but it was when she was already tied to the stake, and it was given to her by English soldiers who made it from two pieces of wood on the scene. But the biggest complain was that she was too clean? Sigh... Overall good episode, the fighting scene later on made it that much better. 9/10. |
astroprogs said: Fai said: Please. While it makes sense with Red Saber, Saber of Red and Saber, most of the rest of heroes are genderbent for sole reason of fanservice so otakus can gamble for their waifus. Stop defending it. Why are you talking about a work that has nothing to do with Apocrypha? A work that i neither defended nor even mentioned in my post about Jack? Yes, some GO Servants are just pure fanservice with flimsy justifications, if any. Jack, however, isn't a designed-for-F/GO Servant and her backstory makes perfect sense. Nasuverse problems began before FGO even came out tho? FGO simply threw Tm fullspeed ahead into otaku pandering route, but it was already on its way towards that with decisions with adaptations, apocrypha, etc. Even CCC as great of a narrative as it was is already leaning that way . Jack is like she is because Higashide is a pervert that incorporates fetishes into the work rather than creating a compelling narrative. Nothing more nothing less. |
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J1m1s said: astroprogs said: No, she just had magical male genitalia. That's way more acceptable. Why are you bringing something that had nothing to do and was never even alluded in the adaptation as an argument? A female Jack that kills because she was abandoned by her mother isn’t a bad take on the legend but it doesn’t justify her design being as ridiculous as it is ! A half naked loli with huge hips wearing a G-string! It's obvious that she is in for loli fanservice and not to be interesting.The same goes for Frankenstein's monster, her being a cute waifu doesn't add anything other than otaku pandering. According with what you said even an abomination like Passionlip from fate/extra ccc can be considered a good character and be taken seriously as long as ''they explain it well and make it interesting' It's a part of Artoria's lore. It doesn't disappear or become invalid because it isn't in an anime adaptation yet. Her design is related to who she kills, prostitutes. She literally wants to be a part of them, so she dresses like them. I'm not saying it's not fanservice, because Artoria being female is in the same boat, I'm saying that it doesn't automatically become bad because of it. Nuances matter. I haven't played CCC, so i can't comment on Lip's or Melt's designs until i do. But yes, if it makes sense in context and it's interesting, then yes, I'll view her as a good character. Fai said: astroprogs said: Why are you talking about a work that has nothing to do with Apocrypha? A work that i neither defended nor even mentioned in my post about Jack? Yes, some GO Servants are just pure fanservice with flimsy justifications, if any. Jack, however, isn't a designed-for-F/GO Servant and her backstory makes perfect sense. Nasuverse problems began before FGO even came out tho? FGO simply threw Tm fullspeed ahead into otaku pandering route, but it was already on its way towards that with decisions with adaptations, apocrypha, etc. Even CCC as great of a narrative as it was is already leaning that way . Jack is like she is because Higashide is a pervert that incorporates fetishes into the work rather than creating a compelling narrative. Nothing more nothing less. You said "so otakus can gamble for their waifus", so it was pretty obvious what work exactly you meant. Jack's backstory is pretty compelling to me, though. I haven't completed all of Aporypha, so i can't talk about Higashide in general with confidence at this point, but what i know about Jack makes her a very good character to me. |
astroprogsJul 9, 2017 3:10 PM
Drake1000 said: astroprogs said: Again, historical accuracy shouldn't really be your criteria in Fate. This was never the focus of the franchise, even all the way back to Prototype. Fate's historical figures are written to be interesting first and foremost. Genderbending every single character isn't interesting. Putting unique twists on them is. If that twist happens to be a genderbend for some of them, granted it's well-written and justified, I'd say absolutely go for it. Well I'm just saying that just because Arthur is a grill doesn't mean every genderbending is justified when the vast majority of the cast are accurate to their historical gender, it's the guy's whim to just turn anyone he wants to fuel waifus and so is our right to disagree with it, it won't change anything. And yes there needs to be historical accuracy to a certain extent, you're claiming their freaking name, there's some insulting portrayals from FGO, they turned the most fearsome and notorious pirate in history into an Otaku joke with no charisma. To say that historical accuracy isn't a criteria is wrong, they can have freedom but they shouldn't stray away completely from what made the historical figure. I don't see the problem because if the majority is fine with it and like it and a small minority has problems with it. Why does it even matter? |
| Nice second episode. I just hope that we stay with Red saber pair as the protagonists but seeing the cover I am afraid that it will not be so. Jeane D. Arc seems like cool character but I can smell THE AVERAGE USELESS MC FROM AFAR. That guy better stays in that water tank forever. (sadly spoilers in trailers and opening prove otherwise) |
Drake1000 said: astroprogs said: Again, historical accuracy shouldn't really be your criteria in Fate. This was never the focus of the franchise, even all the way back to Prototype. Fate's historical figures are written to be interesting first and foremost. Genderbending every single character isn't interesting. Putting unique twists on them is. If that twist happens to be a genderbend for some of them, granted it's well-written and justified, I'd say absolutely go for it. Well I'm just saying that just because Arthur is a grill doesn't mean every genderbending is justified when the vast majority of the cast are accurate to their historical gender, it's the guy's whim to just turn anyone he wants to fuel waifus and so is our right to disagree with it, it won't change anything. And yes there needs to be historical accuracy to a certain extent, you're claiming their freaking name, there's some insulting portrayals from FGO, they turned the most fearsome and notorious pirate in history into an Otaku joke with no charisma. To say that historical accuracy isn't a criteria is wrong, they can have freedom but they shouldn't stray away completely from what made the historical figure. I didn't say that every genderbend is justified either. On top of my head the justified genderbends are Artoria, Mordred, Attila, Drake, Jack, Shuten and Musashi. Nero has for and against arguments IMO. The rest are kinda bleh because the explanation can be summed up as "It happens". If you're too tied to historical accuracy, that'll needlessly tie you in, creatively. History should be the base, not the limit. Not being tied to history gave us the likes of Artoria and Nero and I'm really glad that these characters were created. Blackbeard is a joke because he's a badly-written characters, not because he's historically-inaccurate IMO. Being historically accurate amplifies that sense of seeing historical figures being summoned to fight it out, i have no doubt about that, but being that close is... well, boring. If i wanted to see those historical figures represented more accurately, I'd read their history/myths. I want to see Fate's take on them, not history's. I remember when Cleopatra was released in F/GO and i was absolutely pissed at her design and what they did to her, then i read how she was written and i became completely on board. Things just need to be unique and interesting. If sticking to the actual history be more interesting, do it, if not, they should stray completely from how they were in history IMO. |
astroprogsJul 9, 2017 3:40 PM
| The photos that people linked were incredible. Thanks for posting those. It makes it more fun to watch when comparing actual images to the animations |
| Zero f*gs and people who think they're too good for fanservice, after Female Arthur, crack me up. F/SN literally had sexytime as a plot device, but now some of us are too good for fanservice? And FSN & FHA > FZ. Fight me IRL. |
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astroprogs said: CommanderParagon said: That backstory was only written that way to justify having her be a loli. Sorry, but I find that seriously stupid. It's like every non-Zero Fate series wants to ruin its own premise and stop itself from being taken remotely seriously. Especially considering Jack the Ripper is such a mystery they could have made him or her whatever they wanted. And they chose a loli. This seems like more of a hate of lolis, rather than the quality of the writing. Why is her being a loli bad, from a narrative standpoint? I'm not talking about your personal preferences, I'm asking how does it harm the narrative? I take Jack's character seriously because the writing itself didn't give me any reason not to. It explained why it's different and unique and did it well. Honestly they are just a bunch of uptight Prudes. In one of the first scenes of the Godfather there is a women getting fucked, is it a bad movie? This is like the whole "mana transfer" thing. The sex scenes in FSN were written terribly, but the core concept is not strange for a fantasy setting. And at the same time no one complains at how FSN Rider is dressed. I gave up this fight a long time ago because you can't get a person on the internet off their high horse. |
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| I was wrong to have any kind of hope for this series. I was initially hoping for the writing to be on par with fate/extra (the game) but good lord, this episode was a let-down. Is this really just gonna be a bunch of one-dimensional characters and more grand order otakubait cancer that's been eating away at this franchise? I don't even mind some occasional fanservice and people having their waifus but fate shouldn't just be a vehicle to carry the kind of superficial elements you can find in any harem series. The VN had sexual themes and cute girls but that's not the reason people enjoyed it so much. Fate used to be more than just an excuse to genderflip historical figures. |
Fever_DreamJul 9, 2017 4:23 PM
... Fine, I have 12 Spartacus figurines, are you happy now? IMO people need to use IMO more because IMO if they don't, people don't think that they meant "IMO" and that they're stating things as facts. At least IMO. Shut up, i like using IMO, alright? |
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