Someone explain me...

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May 2015

5397

J1m1s said:
Because it's bad and empty. Apocrypha with all its faults at least had many good fights with some of them having really great and fluid animation and some interesting side characters even with the little development they had. Last encore is just an interesting concept with bad execution buried under mostly pointless drivel so it's rated lower.

Pretty much this. Apocrypha is better in almost every way. They both have messy stories, but at least Apocrypha had a story that you could actually understand. It also had better animation, and characters that got at least a little development. I couldn't care less about Hakuno, Rin, or even Saber to an extent, even though I think she's one of the only good things about the show, because I am given no reason to. Hakuno is a complete blank slate, Rin is kinda just there (her being both master and servant is kinda cool I guess, though it's not explained), and Saber is cute and endearing, but that's about it.

I can't speak for the game, as I haven't played it, but it is obvious at this point that the show is not friendly to anime-only watchers. Hell, even some people that HAVE played the game are still confused about certain things. This production was clearly not planned-out well.

Mar 24, 2018 4:47 AM

#6

Touniouk

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Nov 2014

1148

Being better than something bad doesn't make it good.

It does have a cringe MC.

It's not made for anime-only watchers which not surprisingly seems to be most of the fate anime fans. At least the fate fanboys can feel superior by dropping their "the characterisation happened in the game" argument so that's cool.

It looks horrible and the directing is nauseating making just looking at it a pretty awful experience in itself.

The fight scenes are bad.

The show mainly comes off as just a waifu advert.

Mar 24, 2018 5:26 AM

#7

DurangaVoe

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Dec 2015

23

Because it was falsely advertised as it'd be a good entry to the Fate/Extra (and Extella) branch of the franchise, many viewers seem to be dissatisfied with the lackluster characterization of the characters. In reality, despite being watchable by newcomers, it is significantly more enjoyable if you've played Fate/Extra prior to watching this.

Also it happens to be that kind of a mystery show that doesn't explain much to its viewers and just leaves them confused instead. This is sadly a pretty niche genre and the audience in this case are usually just fans of Fate or newcomers who somehow liked Apocrypha and became excited about a new entry, hoping about similar experience. There's not a big chance this kind of people would be also fans of this genre.

Some complain that the fights aren't as good as they'd expect from a Fate show. Those do badly misunderstand the main appeal not just of this show, but also of Fate in general. FSN was originally a goddamn visual novel, and even Fate/Zero mostly consists of exposition and worldbuilding, only with some occasional fights.

TL;DR: Fate/Extra LE's audience does hardly fall into the niche that should be watching it (weird mystery show fans, Shaft fans and Fate/Extra players), and is dissatisfied because it's not what they'd expect from Fate.

DurangaVoeMar 25, 2018 3:38 AM

Mar 24, 2018 5:35 AM

#8

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Dec 2015

126

Burguburu said:

Yes, Apocrypha have good fights with cool animation.

Mar 24, 2018 5:37 AM

#9

Nurguburu

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Aug 2017

10959

ChuuritsuTv said:

Burguburu said:

Yes, Apocrypha have good fights with cool animation.

Some, not all of them!

All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath.

Mar 24, 2018 5:37 AM

#10

MonoReaper

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Dec 2014

316

DurangaVoe said:
Because it was falsely advertised as it'd be a good entry to the Fate/Extra (and Extella) branch of the franchise, many viewers seem to be dissatisfied with the lackluster characterization of the characters. In reality, despite being watchable by newcomers, it is significantly more enjoyable if you've played Fate/Extra prior to watching this.

Also it happens to be that kind of a mystery show that doesn't explain much to its viewers and just leaves them confused instead. This is sadly a pretty niche genre and the audience in this case are usually just fans of Fate or newcomers who somehow liked Apocrypha and became excited about a new entry, hoping about similar experience. There's not a big chance this kind of people would be also fans of this genre.

Some complain that the fights aren't as good as they'd expect from a Fate show. Those do badly misunderstand the main appeal not just of this show, but also of Fate in general. FSN was originally a goddamn light novel, and even Fate/Zero mostly consists of exposition and worldbuilding, only with some occasional fight.

TL;DR: Fate/Extra LE's audience does hardly fall into the niche that should be watching it (weird mystery show fans, Shaft fans and Fate/Extra players), and is dissatisfied because it's not what they'd expect from Fate.

To add on that the show so far is constructed(so it seems) like a puzzle. In every episode there are several hints & puzzle pieces.
If you do not know the games or anything about the Extra timeline of Fate in general you will have a hard time. Most character interactions & characters like Blackmore, Rani, Rin & Shinji already got their development.
Last Encore adds new layers to these characters which get completly lost for Anime-onlys who never got to know these characters.

As DurangaVoe said it is false advertised. Either that or Shaft`s way of storytelling made it that confuseing mess. (Not the first time something like that happend outside of their Monogatari adaptations. Mekaku City Actors for example got completly destoryed by Shaft with their storytelling that nobody knew what was going on)

Soooo yeah. Most(Anime only) Fate fans in general know only about the Fate titles who have action. And most of the time a lot of interaction in between those characters is cut from Anime adpations due its nature.
Fate is more about the world and their characters itself than the battle.
Yes the battle is part of the story but mostly only to create tension/a quick moment of speed.
The Extra timeline even more is way more about the mystery of its own story + characters than the combat.
The Extra games are somewhat like Persona where the fights are only a stylish means to an end for the next central story point/chapter.

Mar 24, 2018 8:23 AM

#11

Insertanamehere

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Aug 2014

10796

ChuuritsuTv said:

Burguburu said:

Yes, Apocrypha have good fights with cool animation.

Yeah, you proved his point?

Mar 24, 2018 8:27 AM

#12

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

Burguburu said:

Yes, Apocrypha have good fights with cool animation.

Um, are you trying to say that was bad?

Mar 24, 2018 9:05 AM

#13

Hate_and_Rage

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Feb 2018

27

SHAFT told Nasu "go wild with your taste." His wild ride is too much for your average otaku.

Mar 24, 2018 9:21 AM

#14

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Dec 2015

126

Kittens-kun said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

Um, are you trying to say that was bad?

Um, are you trying to say that was good?

Mar 24, 2018 9:32 AM

#15

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

Kittens-kun said:

Um, are you trying to say that was bad?

Um, are you trying to say that was good?

Yeah, because it was.

Mar 24, 2018 11:33 AM

#16

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I'll just quote what I said in another thread over here just to give my thoughts right over.

Here is my input on it, since I do want to put my fair share of cents here.

To me, MAL ratings are pretty much or mostly not the most reliant place for scoring systems, let alone everywhere. So in this case to answer the question a bit: Does it deserve the rating that it has gotten? My answer would be in between.

There are some things that I do like about this entry: Example being the character dynamics between Umu and Hakuno. This is the main central part since they're the main characters, and it is more focused on Hakuno's story. The Hakuno story is interesting which I'll give it that.

Another thing that I like about the series is some aspects of the lore of this entry which I find interesting on paper, as well as the music compositions being actually legitimately good...

But then there's the problem with it, some of the negatives here.

One of them being that while the main characters are pretty much nice and all, the rest of the characters feels rather dull or not much of investment, which is something that falls onto Extra's face a lot. It's only shaping up now just because we have gotten more of the lore and the mystery part of the series, but even then the characters have a weak center point.

Another thing that personally bugs me are the way the directing style is used within production. They look fine on paper, but when placed into practice aside from the later parts of the series so far: They look mediocre to off-putting at best. The character models don't blend well with the backgrounds at times, and some of these have derps as well. I understand that Shaft may correct these in the Blu-Rays and that's fine. But there have been series that have polished work in terms of their end in TV time than this. That's my point.

And I also believe this all comes down to the fact that Nasu gave a message that made a lot of people thinking they can get into this series because he said in the message that people can appreciate Extra as its own or without the knowledge of its original source. But its the exact opposite as far. Unless you have played the game (which I haven't btw) you will not have two jack shit ideas what's going on or to be more specific: Some aspects of the series and certain plot points that aren't completely explained.

This connects to a point of it being more of an expansion to the franchise rather than its own thing. Which isn't inheredly a bad thing, but it causes people to be disconnected with what's going on. People are being confused about what's even telling and what it's even portraying. Some others feel bored and felt uninterested. Some others think it's horrible, and I can't exactly blame anyone for thinking this way just because Extra: Last Encore doesn't give anyone that are watching it (for those that are confused and just feeling disconnected) a reason to give a shit what's going on.

It's not going to be the same for everyone yes, but at the same time it's not something that should be blamed on those members.

I gave it so far a 6/10 since the later parts of the entry are shaping up slowly for the better, however not enough to make me go and invest in it completely.

If I have to bring something up and maybe people can understand my point of view on this, and people will kill me for bringing this up but I want to bring Fate/Apocrypha here.

The reason why I want to bring Fate/Apocrypha here is just that they were announced at the same day as Fate/Extra, so I feel like it should be a fair idea to compare them since they both were a bit back to back.

Fate/Apocrypha has a vast decent amount of characters that people can feel invested in, and Apocrypha focuses more on the character stance while having one of the weaker stories up to date of the franchise for a lot of people.

Fate/Extra: Last Encore on the other hand focuses more on the mystery aspect of its lore and more story driven, but aside from very few characters a lot of these are weak and they don't really do much of an amazing job.

While the story aspect is interesting at best, the characters are weak to the point where it loses a bit of the reason why Fate was actually intriguing since Fate more or less incoperates story elements while adding character chemistry and development. Which is what both have a strength and a weakness. As far as that's concerned for the reason why people even like the franchise in the first place.

And I believe it is a shame that Extra suffered so far from this because it has potential, and it's not the worst for me at the very least (I still deem Zero being one of my least favorite entries), but I can't blame some people for thinking this way, in all honesty.

Overall:

- My answer to the question: In between. I like some parts on the show, but some stuff I just dislike.

- Extra suffers mostly for its characters which is one of the main things aside from the story elements that makes Fate as a whole intriguing.

- Suffers from lack of explanation and left into false expectations as well considering how Nasu wrote his message to everyone. He might have not meant it, but so far it's not going well as intended.

- There's stuff that can be interesting on paper but on practice it doesn't work sometimes, making a lot of people feel and become so disconnected of what's going on.

You can TECHNICALLY call this the Rewrite S1 scenario because unless you either pay attention or checked the original source you won't understand jack shit. Not only that a misleading expectation from what it was going to be and lead to something different. And while I defend that series I won't exactly blame everyone for disliking it because it indeed had some problems that couldn't be fixed very well.

Mar 25, 2018 2:25 AM

#17

J1m1s

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Mar 2012

62

ChuuritsuTv said:

Burguburu said:

Yes, Apocrypha have good fights with cool animation.

This scene had terrific high speed and fluid animation which they got by sacrificing the details of the artwork. It might not be to your tastes but it's certainly not bad and cheap.

Mar 25, 2018 2:58 AM

#18

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Dec 2015

126

J1m1s said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

This scene had terrific high speed and fluid animation which they got by sacrificing the details of the artwork. It might not be to your tastes but it's certainly not bad and cheap.

It's bad. I'm not saying that anime must have artwork that I like, but it must have same artwork everywhere in the series. If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc. then it's just manifest of studio's laziness and obviously statement that they don't respect me as person who will watch their show. Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode.

Mar 25, 2018 3:14 AM

#19

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

J1m1s said:

This scene had terrific high speed and fluid animation which they got by sacrificing the details of the artwork. It might not be to your tastes but it's certainly not bad and cheap.

It's bad. I'm not saying that anime must have artwork that I like, but it must have same artwork everywhere in the series. If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc. then it's just manifest of studio's laziness and obviously statement that they don't respect me as person who will watch their show. Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode.

Why does the artwork HAVE to be the same? What exactly is wrong with changing the style? You thinking this specific example is bad is subjective, so I'm not going to bother arguing over that.

Mar 25, 2018 3:22 AM

#20

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Dec 2015

126

Kittens-kun said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

It's bad. I'm not saying that anime must have artwork that I like, but it must have same artwork everywhere in the series. If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc. then it's just manifest of studio's laziness and obviously statement that they don't respect me as person who will watch their show. Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode.

Why does the artwork HAVE to be the same? What exactly is wrong with changing the style? You thinking this specific example is bad is subjective, so I'm not going to bother arguing over that.

I've written it in post that you quote. Read it.

Mar 25, 2018 3:24 AM

#21

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

Kittens-kun said:

Why does the artwork HAVE to be the same? What exactly is wrong with changing the style? You thinking this specific example is bad is subjective, so I'm not going to bother arguing over that.

I've written it in post that you quote. Read it.

Doesn't really explain anything.

Mar 25, 2018 3:31 AM

#22

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Dec 2015

126

Kittens-kun said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

I've written it in post that you quote. Read it.

Doesn't really explain anything.

Eh...
"If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc."
"Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode."

If change is random then it's bad. Artwork change in this episode doesn't have any meaning reason. It doesn't express anything. It's just animator way to making anime faster, not better.

Mar 25, 2018 3:34 AM

#23

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

Kittens-kun said:

Doesn't really explain anything.

Eh...
"If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc."
"Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode."

If change is random then it's bad. Artwork change in this episode doesn't have any meaning reason. It doesn't express anything. It's just animator way to making anime faster, not better.

It wasn't random though. It was a stylistic choice that they made so it would look more fluid. They wanted to make the climactic fight FEEL liie a climax, and that's what they did. Just because looks different from the rest of the show doesn't mean it's bad.

Mar 25, 2018 3:39 AM

#24

MonoReaper

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Dec 2014

316

ChuuritsuTv said:

Kittens-kun said:

Doesn't really explain anything.

Eh...
"If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc."
"Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode."

If change is random then it's bad. Artwork change in this episode doesn't have any meaning reason. It doesn't express anything. It's just animator way to making anime faster, not better.

Better animation= fast movement/speed itself something moveing a. o. fighting.
While Apocryphas has many problems and is in the japanese fandom the most hated/worst regarded title in the Fate Franchise. The animation in these episodes is something nobody expected from A1 who doesnt do fighting scenes.

The animation in those scenes is amazing its fluid and you can follow the combat with your eyes while it is really fast.
The more details you have to animate the slower the animation itself/movement.
Less details = faster animation.

If you dont like the reduced visuals tha is ok.
But from an animation/movement standpoint this EP/scenes is top notch/really really good.

Mar 25, 2018 3:41 AM

#25

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Dec 2015

126

Kittens-kun said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

Eh...
"If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc."
"Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode."

If change is random then it's bad. Artwork change in this episode doesn't have any meaning reason. It doesn't express anything. It's just animator way to making anime faster, not better.

It wasn't random though. It was a stylistic choice that they made so it would look more fluid. They wanted to make the climactic fight FEEL liie a climax, and that's what they did. Just because looks different from the rest of the show doesn't mean it's bad.

Having same artwork at that moment doesn't exclude making a good climactic fight. It's not that it must be made this way to express this. More, making this fight with same artwork only could make it better.

Mar 25, 2018 3:44 AM

#26

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Dec 2015

126

MonoReaper said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

Eh...
"If it doesn't have without any reason that could emphasize some aspects of the idea etc."
"Evangelion also had problems with budget in last episodes, but director hasn't told that he can make it bad 'cause there's no money and time. Whereas he use it to express idea of the whole episode."

If change is random then it's bad. Artwork change in this episode doesn't have any meaning reason. It doesn't express anything. It's just animator way to making anime faster, not better.

Better animation= fast movement/speed itself something moveing a. o. fighting.
While Apocryphas has many problems and is in the japanese fandom the most hated/worst regarded title in the Fate Franchise. The animation in these episodes is something nobody expected from A1 who doesnt do fighting scenes.

The animation in those scenes is amazing its fluid and you can follow the combat with your eyes while it is really fast.
The more details you have to animate the slower the animation itself/movement.
Less details = faster animation.

If you dont like the reduced visuals tha is ok.
But from an animation/movement standpoint this EP/scenes is top notch/really really good.

But I'm not talking about animation. Rest of fight in this anime have normally drawn and still watchable fight so it also should have

Mar 25, 2018 3:55 AM

#27

MonoReaper

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Dec 2014

316

ChuuritsuTv said:

MonoReaper said:

Better animation= fast movement/speed itself something moveing a. o. fighting.
While Apocryphas has many problems and is in the japanese fandom the most hated/worst regarded title in the Fate Franchise. The animation in these episodes is something nobody expected from A1 who doesnt do fighting scenes.

The animation in those scenes is amazing its fluid and you can follow the combat with your eyes while it is really fast.
The more details you have to animate the slower the animation itself/movement.
Less details = faster animation.

If you dont like the reduced visuals tha is ok.
But from an animation/movement standpoint this EP/scenes is top notch/really really good.

But I'm not talking about animation. Rest of fight in this anime have normally drawn and still watchable fight so it also should have

(If you scroll up you see that you engaged the first comment/post on the subject Apocrypha had amazing fighting scenes & animation. You then posted a video to said fight scenes of Apocrypha. Which is the subject we talk about cause the details of the visuals were reduced for the sake of fluid animation)
Your viewpoint standart is way to high. Aka Ufotable is a unqiue studio in the anime industy. Their high quality is something you can expect from them cause of the people who work their + the huge budget they get from their contractors.

A1 never(recently) did a action show so far who was action orientated. They do their slice of life stuff and overall shows who dont have much going on in terms of movement/animation & overall visusal details.
Less details isnt less quality. Its simply reduced visuals for the sake of faster movement of said fighting scenes.

If you look back at A1 history plus what they deliverd until that EP. That few fight scene are really well done. Even tho it didnt save the shitshow that Apocrypha is/was. That was one of the few good points it had.

MonoReaperMar 25, 2018 3:58 AM

Mar 25, 2018 3:57 AM

#28

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May 2015

5397

ChuuritsuTv said:

Kittens-kun said:

It wasn't random though. It was a stylistic choice that they made so it would look more fluid. They wanted to make the climactic fight FEEL liie a climax, and that's what they did. Just because looks different from the rest of the show doesn't mean it's bad.

Having same artwork at that moment doesn't exclude making a good climactic fight. It's not that it must be made this way to express this. More, making this fight with same artwork only could make it better.

I really don't see how the fight looking like the rest of the show would have made it better. This, and episode 22 are talked about more, and praised for their animation BECAUSE it was different. A lot of people felt, myself included, that those fights looked way better than anything that the show had up till that point. Episode 22 has some of the best fight animation that I've ever seen. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Mar 25, 2018 5:18 AM

#29

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Jul 2018

564488

First of all, most people here seem to be unfamiliar with basic notions behind mystery anime or unwilling to use their brain a little. It isn't true that this anime has a bad plot - it's intentionally confusing but still far away from Serial Experiments Lain. Most people don't want to even consider the possibility of being stupid/responsible for not understanding anything. So they attack the plot to detract attention from their own shortcomings. This is how I see it. What's more, people keep comparing anime that shouldn't be compared; just because this is Fate doesn't mean you can use Zero as a universal ideal . That's because the main idea behind Last Encore is vastly different from any other Fate. Think of it this way: if someone said that Emiya cooking show is garbage because it's not like Fate/Zero, would you take that opinion seriously ? I don't think so. The same is here. While the animation quality isn't the best(this year's Gintama still manages to screw up even more ), it's not like this anime has no qualities AT ALL. It's worth mentioning that nowadays radical opinions tend to be more popular/visible on the internet, regardless of how absurd they are. What's more, it's easy to follow mainstream hate when an anime doesn't bother lowering itself to the level of this particular audience.

Mar 25, 2018 5:45 AM

#30

Official MAL All-around Fate/Grand Order & Type-Moon Club

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May 2015

5397

The Fate fanboys are back at it again.

Mar 25, 2018 8:42 AM

#31

Centurionzo_12

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Nov 2017

89

The real reason, it just feel off, it's pretty clear that you need to have play the game, as it just revealed that it's some kinda of sequel from Extra, it's also not a action show but a mystery show, there's too little exposition in some parts and too much in other's.

Basic it's just a okay show, it's not bad but it's not what the fanbase waited

Mar 25, 2018 8:49 AM

#32

astroprogs

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Aug 2010

14820

Kittens-kun said:
The Fate fanboys are back at it again.

The Fate haters are back at it again.

See how easy this is? Let's not.

Mar 25, 2018 9:08 AM

#33

Nurguburu

Online

Aug 2017

10959

Kittens-kun said:

ChuuritsuTv said:

Um, are you trying to say that was bad?

?????????????????????

All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath.

Mar 25, 2018 9:26 AM

#34

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Jul 2018

564488

squirrvev said:
First of all, most people here seem to be unfamiliar with basic notions behind mystery anime or unwilling to use their brain a little. It isn't true that this anime has a bad plot - it's intentionally confusing but still far away from Serial Experiments Lain. Most people don't want to even consider the possibility of being stupid/responsible for not understanding anything. So they attack the plot to detract attention from their own shortcomings. This is how I see it. What's more, people keep comparing anime that shouldn't be compared; just because this is Fate doesn't mean you can use Zero as a universal ideal . That's because the main idea behind Last Encore is vastly different from any other Fate. Think of it this way: if someone said that Emiya cooking show is garbage because it's not like Fate/Zero, would you take that opinion seriously ? I don't think so. The same is here. While the animation quality isn't the best(this year's Gintama still manages to screw up even more ), it's not like this anime has no qualities AT ALL. It's worth mentioning that nowadays radical opinions tend to be more popular/visible on the internet, regardless of how absurd they are. What's more, it's easy to follow mainstream hate when an anime doesn't bother lowering itself to the level of this particular audience.

I get it it can be intentionally trying to be confusing or whatever, but hilarious how you said it doesn't have bad plot. The exposition is a mess, characters are dull as hell quickly getting killed. I thought maybe people opened their eyes after the mess of last episode, but nope, heck they even turned Rin a demi servant out of nowhere lol.
Also main character is one of the worst I have seen.

Mar 25, 2018 9:30 AM

#35

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May 2015

5397

astroprogs said:

Kittens-kun said:
The Fate fanboys are back at it again.

The Fate haters are back at it again.

See how easy this is? Let's not.

It wouldn't work anyway since I'm not a hater. This is the only Fate show that I have disliked. People keep using the same "it's a confusing mess on purpose" and I'm not buying it. That's just an excuse.

@Burguburu Read his replies. He linked that fight because he thinks that it was the opposite of your statement, meaning bad.

Mar 25, 2018 9:40 AM

#36

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Jul 2018

564488

wittykitt said:

squirrvev said:
First of all, most people here seem to be unfamiliar with basic notions behind mystery anime or unwilling to use their brain a little. It isn't true that this anime has a bad plot - it's intentionally confusing but still far away from Serial Experiments Lain. Most people don't want to even consider the possibility of being stupid/responsible for not understanding anything. So they attack the plot to detract attention from their own shortcomings. This is how I see it. What's more, people keep comparing anime that shouldn't be compared; just because this is Fate doesn't mean you can use Zero as a universal ideal . That's because the main idea behind Last Encore is vastly different from any other Fate. Think of it this way: if someone said that Emiya cooking show is garbage because it's not like Fate/Zero, would you take that opinion seriously ? I don't think so. The same is here. While the animation quality isn't the best(this year's Gintama still manages to screw up even more ), it's not like this anime has no qualities AT ALL. It's worth mentioning that nowadays radical opinions tend to be more popular/visible on the internet, regardless of how absurd they are. What's more, it's easy to follow mainstream hate when an anime doesn't bother lowering itself to the level of this particular audience.

I get it it can be intentionally trying to be confusing or whatever, but hilarious how you said it doesn't have bad plot. The exposition is a mess, characters are dull as hell quickly getting killed. I thought maybe people opened their eyes after the mess of last episode, but nope, heck they even turned Rin a demi servant out of nowhere lol.
Also main character is one of the worst I have seen.

No, you don't get it. The exposition is MEANT to be a little messy at first and there are several straightforward explanations of basic elements of the universe. Besides, you are the blind one here. You can't see any of this anime's good points, don't get the clues even if they're right in front of you and fail at noticing how irrational the extent of this whole criticism is. Much like you, the majority of the critics take it too far, because the issues this anime has aren't nearly as serious as you claim they are.

Mar 25, 2018 9:53 AM

#37

Offline

Jul 2018

564488

squirrvev said:

wittykitt said:

I get it it can be intentionally trying to be confusing or whatever, but hilarious how you said it doesn't have bad plot. The exposition is a mess, characters are dull as hell quickly getting killed. I thought maybe people opened their eyes after the mess of last episode, but nope, heck they even turned Rin a demi servant out of nowhere lol.
Also main character is one of the worst I have seen.

No, you don't get it. The exposition is MEANT to be a little messy at first and there are several straightforward explanations of basic elements of the universe. Besides, you are the blind one here. You can't see any of this anime's good points, don't get the clues even if they're right in front of you and fail at noticing how irrational the extent of this whole criticism is. Much like you, the majority of the critics take it too far, because the issues this anime has aren't nearly as serious as you claim they are.

Oh really? Explain to me the wise one, how Rin is supposed to be a demi servant, with proper explanations. Note, it was already said in the post credits scene where a "proper master" is to be prepared but that doesn't mean anything. And no one even asked Rin about that lol, just like you are fine with everything.
Hilarious, if tomorrow it's said that everyone is a servant and earth is flat, you wouldn't even blink an eye.

>exposition is meant to be messy

KnK exposition is also messy but it gathers itself carefully. Here? It doesn't even bother .

The anime good points? Oh yeah it's there, the umu counter

Oh and keep the intentional excuses coming, it will really help with the sales.

Mar 25, 2018 9:55 AM

#38

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Jul 2018

564488

Kittens-kun said:
People keep using the same "it's a confusing mess on purpose" and I'm not buying it. That's just an excuse.

So what if YOU think it couldn't be intentional ? Who do you think you are ? Did you even consider the idea of doing things differently ? Can you even imagine that other people want to create something very specific, not bound by conventional storytelling ? The way I see it, you're convinced that your idea of storytelling is what storytelling stands for - or at least should. You claim that what others see is ONLY a way of defending a show ,an "excuse" rather than a legit argument. When I and other people say it, it's because we've seen it already. Lots of other anime that intentionally confused the audience and messed up the plot and exposition. This - all the other anime with similar approach to storytelling and a positive score - is where the argument actually comes from

Mar 25, 2018 9:57 AM

#39

Offline

Jul 2018

564488

wittykitt said:

squirrvev said:

No, you don't get it. The exposition is MEANT to be a little messy at first and there are several straightforward explanations of basic elements of the universe. Besides, you are the blind one here. You can't see any of this anime's good points, don't get the clues even if they're right in front of you and fail at noticing how irrational the extent of this whole criticism is. Much like you, the majority of the critics take it too far, because the issues this anime has aren't nearly as serious as you claim they are.

Oh really? Explain to me the wise one, how Rin is supposed to be a demi servant, with proper explanations. Note, it was already said in the post credits scene where a "proper master" is to be prepared but that doesn't mean anything. And no one even asked Rin about that lol, just like you are fine with everything.
Hilarious, if tomorrow it's said that everyone is a servant and earth is flat, you wouldn't even blink an eye.

>exposition is meant to be messy

KnK exposition is also messy but it gathers itself carefully. Here? It doesn't even bother .

The anime good points? Oh yeah it's there, the umu counter

Oh and keep the intentional excuses coming, it will really help with the sales.

You have a brain. Use it

Mar 25, 2018 9:59 AM

#40

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Jul 2018

564488

ITT-anything messy exposition= genius because it's intentional and you don't gettit, when there are proper methods of executing it as proved by many anime before. You know what, asspulls are also fine because writers want it and it's intentional.

Mar 25, 2018 10:01 AM

#41

Offline

Jul 2018

564488

squirrvev said:

wittykitt said:

squirrvev said:

wittykitt said:

squirrvev said:
First of all, most people here seem to be unfamiliar with basic notions behind mystery anime or unwilling to use their brain a little. It isn't true that this anime has a bad plot - it's intentionally confusing but still far away from Serial Experiments Lain. Most people don't want to even consider the possibility of being stupid/responsible for not understanding anything. So they attack the plot to detract attention from their own shortcomings. This is how I see it. What's more, people keep comparing anime that shouldn't be compared; just because this is Fate doesn't mean you can use Zero as a universal ideal . That's because the main idea behind Last Encore is vastly different from any other Fate. Think of it this way: if someone said that Emiya cooking show is garbage because it's not like Fate/Zero, would you take that opinion seriously ? I don't think so. The same is here. While the animation quality isn't the best(this year's Gintama still manages to screw up even more ), it's not like this anime has no qualities AT ALL. It's worth mentioning that nowadays radical opinions tend to be more popular/visible on the internet, regardless of how absurd they are. What's more, it's easy to follow mainstream hate when an anime doesn't bother lowering itself to the level of this particular audience.

I get it it can be intentionally trying to be confusing or whatever, but hilarious how you said it doesn't have bad plot. The exposition is a mess, characters are dull as hell quickly getting killed. I thought maybe people opened their eyes after the mess of last episode, but nope, heck they even turned Rin a demi servant out of nowhere lol.
Also main character is one of the worst I have seen.

No, you don't get it. The exposition is MEANT to be a little messy at first and there are several straightforward explanations of basic elements of the universe. Besides, you are the blind one here. You can't see any of this anime's good points, don't get the clues even if they're right in front of you and fail at noticing how irrational the extent of this whole criticism is. Much like you, the majority of the critics take it too far, because the issues this anime has aren't nearly as serious as you claim they are.

Oh really? Explain to me the wise one, how Rin is supposed to be a demi servant, with proper explanations. Note, it was already said in the post credits scene where a "proper master" is to be prepared but that doesn't mean anything. And no one even asked Rin about that lol, just like you are fine with everything.
Hilarious, if tomorrow it's said that everyone is a servant and earth is flat, you wouldn't even blink an eye.

>exposition is meant to be messy

KnK exposition is also messy but it gathers itself carefully. Here? It doesn't even bother .

The anime good points? Oh yeah it's there, the umu counter

Oh and keep the intentional excuses coming, it will really help with the sales.

You have a brain. Use it

Nice deflection, 10/10 knowledge, I am not even surprised with this. I am proud how you are defending it without knowing anything, even when fatefans complained about the lack of its explanation in the recent episode.(ofc you know more than them) Truly genius mate, we aren't worthy of arguing with you.

removed-userMar 25, 2018 10:16 AM

Mar 25, 2018 10:03 AM

#42

Offline

May 2015

5397

squirrvev said:

Kittens-kun said:
People keep using the same "it's a confusing mess on purpose" and I'm not buying it. That's just an excuse.

So what if YOU think it couldn't be intentional ? Who do you think you are ? Did you even consider the idea of doing things differently ? Can you even imagine that other people want to create something very specific, not bound by conventional storytelling ? The way I see it, you're convinced that your idea of storytelling is what storytelling stands for - or at least should. You claim that what others see is ONLY a way of defending a show ,an "excuse" rather than a legit argument. When I and other people say it, it's because we've seen it already. Lots of other anime that intentionally confused the audience and messed up the plot and exposition. This - all the other anime with similar approach to storytelling and a positive score - is where the argument actually comes from

Where did I say that the creators have to follow a set standard? I don't believe that they HAVE to do anything. I just think that while yes, this might be a mystery type of show, it doesn't handle it well. I'm saying it makes no sense, and you continue to say that, because it's a mystery, it doesn't need to make sense, and that I should be figuring it out on my own. And I think that's bullshit.

Mar 25, 2018 11:10 AM

#43

Offline

Jul 2018

564488

Kittens-kun said:

squirrvev said:

So what if YOU think it couldn't be intentional ? Who do you think you are ? Did you even consider the idea of doing things differently ? Can you even imagine that other people want to create something very specific, not bound by conventional storytelling ? The way I see it, you're convinced that your idea of storytelling is what storytelling stands for - or at least should. You claim that what others see is ONLY a way of defending a show ,an "excuse" rather than a legit argument. When I and other people say it, it's because we've seen it already. Lots of other anime that intentionally confused the audience and messed up the plot and exposition. This - all the other anime with similar approach to storytelling and a positive score - is where the argument actually comes from

Where did I say that the creators have to follow a set standard? I don't believe that they HAVE to do anything. I just think that while yes, this might be a mystery type of show, it doesn't handle it well. I'm saying it makes no sense, and you continue to say that, because it's a mystery, it doesn't need to make sense, and that I should be figuring it out on my own. And I think that's bullshit.

From my point of view, you don't have a right to say it. You know why ? Because it's your personal preference, not a valid description of what mystery genre is.For me it isn't based on any examples, but rather your tastes. You can't call this notion of mystery bullshit, because it's up to the artist, whatever the medium may be, to decide what he/she wants to make. What kind of story, emotions and feelings he/she wants to deliver. All of these cannot be disregarded in any way, especially not with expressions like "bullshit". If someone wants to make challenging stories, than why not ? There are people who want that. To make it clear, let me say this : You have your views, likes, dislikes and preferences. You can voice them, just make sure to say it like "I don't like this " or "This isn't my thing ". When you call an entire idea "bullshit" , you're more like a self-proclaimed judge than just another person with an opinion. Mainly because you just throw a claim, instead of making a point. So even if you defend yourself like you just did, your criticism remains to be a bunch of statements lacking a solid basis. Just like an excuse

Mar 25, 2018 11:22 AM

#44

J_LEE_C

Offline

Jan 2017

2580

Touniouk said:
Being better than something bad doesn't make it good.

It does have a cringe MC.

It's not made for anime-only watchers which not surprisingly seems to be most of the fate anime fans. At least the fate fanboys can feel superior by dropping their "the characterisation happened in the game" argument so that's cool.

It looks horrible and the directing is nauseating making just looking at it a pretty awful experience in itself.

The fight scenes are bad.

The show mainly comes off as just a waifu advert.

Hey lets not forget it taught us the most profound knowledge of all time:

People die if they are killed.

Mar 25, 2018 11:37 AM

#45

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May 2015

5397

squirrvev said:

Kittens-kun said:

Where did I say that the creators have to follow a set standard? I don't believe that they HAVE to do anything. I just think that while yes, this might be a mystery type of show, it doesn't handle it well. I'm saying it makes no sense, and you continue to say that, because it's a mystery, it doesn't need to make sense, and that I should be figuring it out on my own. And I think that's bullshit.

From my point of view, you don't have a right to say it. You know why ? Because it's your personal preference, not a valid description of what mystery genre is.For me it isn't based on any examples, but rather your tastes. You can't call this notion of mystery bullshit, because it's up to the artist, whatever the medium may be, to decide what he/she wants to make. What kind of story, emotions and feelings he/she wants to deliver. All of these cannot be disregarded in any way, especially not with expressions like "bullshit". If someone wants to make challenging stories, than why not ? There are people who want that. To make it clear, let me say this : You have your views, likes, dislikes and preferences. You can voice them, just make sure to say it like "I don't like this " or "This isn't my thing ". When you call an entire idea "bullshit" , you're more like a self-proclaimed judge than just another person with an opinion. Mainly because you just throw a claim, instead of making a point. So even if you defend yourself like you just did, your criticism remains to be a bunch of statements lacking a solid basis. Just like an excuse

I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't saying any of this objectively, but whatever. I can call it bullshit if I want. Of course, you can disagree with me, but I have a right to say it. You even say that I'm allowed to have my opinion, so why do you get so butthurt when I voice it? Also, your points aren't fleshed out either. You just keep repeating the same "it's a mystery", "it's confusing on purpose", and "it's not a flaw if that's what the author wants" lines.

Mar 25, 2018 11:56 AM

#46

Offline

Jul 2018

564488

Kittens-kun said:

squirrvev said:

From my point of view, you don't have a right to say it. You know why ? Because it's your personal preference, not a valid description of what mystery genre is.For me it isn't based on any examples, but rather your tastes. You can't call this notion of mystery bullshit, because it's up to the artist, whatever the medium may be, to decide what he/she wants to make. What kind of story, emotions and feelings he/she wants to deliver. All of these cannot be disregarded in any way, especially not with expressions like "bullshit". If someone wants to make challenging stories, than why not ? There are people who want that. To make it clear, let me say this : You have your views, likes, dislikes and preferences. You can voice them, just make sure to say it like "I don't like this " or "This isn't my thing ". When you call an entire idea "bullshit" , you're more like a self-proclaimed judge than just another person with an opinion. Mainly because you just throw a claim, instead of making a point. So even if you defend yourself like you just did, your criticism remains to be a bunch of statements lacking a solid basis. Just like an excuse

I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't saying any of this objectively, but whatever. I can call it bullshit if I want. Of course, you can disagree with me, but I have a right to say it. You even say that I'm allowed to have my opinion, so why do you get so butthurt when I voice it? Also, your points aren't fleshed out either. You just keep repeating the same "it's a mystery" and "it's confusing on purpose" lines.

what do you mean my points aren't fleshed out ? Go back to my posts and read them again. I made sure to explain WHY I think the way I think and use comparisons, logic and examples to back up my claims. What do you expect from me ? Also, just because I use the same expressions in my posts doesn't mean that I'm repeating statements without backing them up. I pointed out some crucial things that you seemed to not know/take into account. I tried to back up my claims by using other works, bringing up some facts about storytelling in general, referring to your arguments in an attempt to show them from a different perspective. All of it several times, constantly trying to find a different way of leading you to my conclusion. Or backing up the same point in a different way, making a similar argument in hope it works better, pointing out everyone's imperfection. What are you expecting from me? Also, nothing is obvious. That's why misunderstandings exist. If your posts sound like you're stating something as an objective truth, then people will figure out you're convinced that you're telling an objective truth. You know what you mean, but others have to rely solely on your words. This makes phrasing, style of argument and other factors essential to delivering your thoughts clearly. Keep your intentions to yourself and put a little effort into making sure you argue from an equal position to your opponents. It's not hard.

Mar 25, 2018 12:11 PM

#47

Offline

May 2015

5397

squirrvev said:

Kittens-kun said:

squirrvev said:

Kittens-kun said:

squirrvev said:

Kittens-kun said:
People keep using the same "it's a confusing mess on purpose" and I'm not buying it. That's just an excuse.

So what if YOU think it couldn't be intentional ? Who do you think you are ? Did you even consider the idea of doing things differently ? Can you even imagine that other people want to create something very specific, not bound by conventional storytelling ? The way I see it, you're convinced that your idea of storytelling is what storytelling stands for - or at least should. You claim that what others see is ONLY a way of defending a show ,an "excuse" rather than a legit argument. When I and other people say it, it's because we've seen it already. Lots of other anime that intentionally confused the audience and messed up the plot and exposition. This - all the other anime with similar approach to storytelling and a positive score - is where the argument actually comes from

Where did I say that the creators have to follow a set standard? I don't believe that they HAVE to do anything. I just think that while yes, this might be a mystery type of show, it doesn't handle it well. I'm saying it makes no sense, and you continue to say that, because it's a mystery, it doesn't need to make sense, and that I should be figuring it out on my own. And I think that's bullshit.

From my point of view, you don't have a right to say it. You know why ? Because it's your personal preference, not a valid description of what mystery genre is.For me it isn't based on any examples, but rather your tastes. You can't call this notion of mystery bullshit, because it's up to the artist, whatever the medium may be, to decide what he/she wants to make. What kind of story, emotions and feelings he/she wants to deliver. All of these cannot be disregarded in any way, especially not with expressions like "bullshit". If someone wants to make challenging stories, than why not ? There are people who want that. To make it clear, let me say this : You have your views, likes, dislikes and preferences. You can voice them, just make sure to say it like "I don't like this " or "This isn't my thing ". When you call an entire idea "bullshit" , you're more like a self-proclaimed judge than just another person with an opinion. Mainly because you just throw a claim, instead of making a point. So even if you defend yourself like you just did, your criticism remains to be a bunch of statements lacking a solid basis. Just like an excuse

I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't saying any of this objectively, but whatever. I can call it bullshit if I want. Of course, you can disagree with me, but I have a right to say it. You even say that I'm allowed to have my opinion, so why do you get so butthurt when I voice it? Also, your points aren't fleshed out either. You just keep repeating the same "it's a mystery" and "it's confusing on purpose" lines.

what do you mean my points aren't fleshed out ? Go back to my posts and read them again. I made sure to explain WHY I think the way I think and use comparisons, logic and examples to back up my claims. What do you expect from me ? Also, just because I use the same expressions in my posts doesn't mean that I'm repeating statements without backing them up. I pointed out some crucial things that you seemed to not know/take into account. I tried to back up my claims by using other works, bringing up some facts about storytelling in general, referring to your arguments in an attempt to show them from a different perspective. All of it several times, constantly trying to find a different way of leading you to my conclusion. Or backing up the same point in a different way, making a similar argument in hope it works better, pointing out everyone's imperfection. What are you expecting from me? Also, nothing is obvious. That's why misunderstandings exist. If your posts sound like you're stating something as an objective truth, then people will figure out you're convinced that you're telling an objective truth. You know what you mean, but others have to rely solely on your words. This makes phrasing, style of argument and other factors essential to delivering your thoughts clearly. Keep your intentions to yourself and put a little effort into making sure you argue from an equal position to your opponents. It's not hard.

And learning to not cry when someone dislikes a show you like is also not hard.

Mar 25, 2018 12:27 PM

#48