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| I have to admit that I wasn't a big fan of Little Busters because I found the episodes boring but the last two episodes made up the long wait. Really excellent story now and I see the anime with other eyes now ^^ |
Thalandor46 said: I hate to say it, but I'm kind of underwhelmed. I haven't experienced the VN, but I have experienced Angel Beats, and I kind of feel like the twist is mostly just that universe, with an endless recursion of time tossed in the mix. The only moment that really got to me in this episode was watching the extended cast disappear from the field. I feel like I should have been hit by a truck, but I didn't. Maybe it's due to time constraints, but Masato, Kengo, and Kyousuke just don't feel all that well developed, especially compared to the rest of the cast. With this arc revolving pretty heavily around them, it all just kind of feels flat compared to the individual character arcs, all of which I thought were particularly good. Rin and Refrain needed more time in general, because the story focus had a good 10+ hours in the VN to shift its focus from the side heroines towards the main 5 LBs, and the anime had 7 episodes before we got to these farewells. It made quite a difference. I always predicted that this would cause some sort of whiplash in story direction with the quick pacing. |
| Masato leaving,okay feel like crying now. Kengo crying,ohh god I can't see Kengo crying feel so close to crying. Kyousuke crying,that it that's too much I'm crying ;___; Next episode One Wish. |
VanishingKiraDec 15, 2013 7:23 PM
| It's not really necessary for the characters to be "that" developed if you ask me. Sure it's helpful but it's not a necessity. For example people cried their eyes out at Ushio in episode 18 in which you only knew her for an episode and a half beforehand. This is mainly because the execution is well done rather than a lot of development. |
| Woah, that was just...absolutely stunning. My mind was blown, was on the verge of crying, and the sadness of the truth just caused this burning feeling in my chest for the rest of the episode. To think all of these characters for all of this time...damn. |
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hyperknees91 said: It's not really necessary for the characters to be "that" developed if you ask me. Sure it's helpful but it's not a necessity. For example people cried their eyes out at Ushio in episode 18 in which you only knew her for an episode and a half beforehand. This is mainly because the execution is well done rather than a lot of development. Yeah, and the contrasting moods of dialogue between the characters and their change even throughout this episode itself is stimulating and leads to the climactic Kyousuke scene. The music and voice/dialogue execution in itself was pretty strong. Clannad After Story episode 18 also brought a recapitulation of the journey with Nagisa and focused is all through the characters' outpouring of emotions. Taking the memories from the journeys in Key's stories and focusing them into their climaxes is what made Clannad, LB, and AB pretty strong. It's a brilliant tactic that can yield emotional impact proportional to the enjoyment you have. The more fun you realize you had spent with the characters, the more it'll hurt at those pivotal scenes. |
fauzty said: Either you don't read, or all you want to do is bashing J.C.Staff as hard as you can. Sigh. 7 episodes are not quick pacing, they are a half season. To us anime-only viewer, it's not rushed, it's too slow-paced. (37+ episodes) The extended cast was a good addition, and you just ignored it, turned a blind eye to the good part of this episode. Whining VN player, please stop. After such a fantastic episode, please. I love the extended cast of the Little Busters, and I'm glad they included the appearances of all of the Little Busters in the episode. It was one of my favorite changes to the VN, and I feel it improved the source material by doing something the VN couldn't do. Firstly, you don't understand the specific parts of the season that had the pacing issues, and a lot of was caused by removal of events that fleshed out the characters and gave buildup. If you felt the characters had enough buildup and this scene was emotional, that's great, but there are a lot of people who simply don't care for Riki. There needed to be at least another episode of Rin taking care of Rin, because it showed his struggle and inability to be stronger, and gave us a feeling of motivation for his actions in Refrain. You might think that Little Busters was slow paced, and that this is the only emotional moment. You're wrong if you think that, because episode 6 was supposed to be more emotional than it was, and the reason why it wasn't was because they didn't give an extra episode to lead up to Riki and Rin getting caught. It was depressing in the VN. A dramatic climax was completely missed because there wasn't an extra episode. Masato's arc was also supposed to be more sad than it was, but it started and ended in one episode, and didn't give us a lot of time to get Masato's perspective with all the Masatos appearing in his head. So, another dramatic climax that could've been more emotional got lessed. Kengo's arc was much longer in the VN, and we got to see his character and personality be fleshed out. This would've made the baseball game between him and Riki much more intense than it was if it had more buildup. So, another dramatic climax is here. All the while, there were more emotional bits of events with Riki visiting Kyousuke then were gotten rid of. There was material spread throughout Refrain to keep people engaged in the characters and emotionally invested in them. There were climaxes throughout, and this episode wasn't just supposed to be the only thing great. As for the show in its entirety feeling slow paced, a lot of that has to do with JC Staff not having the budget to animate a lot of content per episode. They're stretching a thin comedy script with not much going on, when they could've made it exciting and over the top and full of dynamic dialogue between the Little Busters if they had more budget. Clannad doesn't feel slow paced just because it has 40+ episodes. C:AS has many several throughout episodes 9-21. FMAB has 64 episodes and that certainly isn't slow paced. People even argue that the first 10 episodes are fast paced, as they nearly double the speed of the original adaptation and cut out some material, and don't build up the shorter relative climaxes in FMA's smaller arcs. So, I think you're mistaken if you think that the show would've been worse with more episodes, because events would've been more emotional from the get go, and you wouldn't be suffering through 7 episodes that aren't emotional just to get to the farewells. The VN certainly didn't do this, and didn't have slow pacing issues even though it was 5x as long. tldr; Riki and Rin getting caught, Masato being defeated by Riki/Rin, Kengo being defeated by Riki/Rin, Kyousuke taking Riki's hand would've all been more emotional if they had the development in between, and it wouldn't feel like slow-paced stalling for this one dramatic moment, which, by the way, would be more emotional with extra buildup. I'm not saying to take the SAME stuff that was in those 7 episodes, and make it 10 episodes. There's great material that is just gone in the anime that could've made it better. It's hard to make a 16 episode anime though, and 13 was easier for them, even if it made the endings of episodes 6,8,9,10 all weaker than they were supposed to be. |
Vladz0rDec 15, 2013 8:57 PM
| http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22459628 Game voice on episode 11. I think that Tamiyasu did a better job than Horie in this for Riki :o |
| @inuvivo on twitter! |
| I think Riki's voice built up in intensity and was more believable in the anime. Riki started off really sad. Riki started with a burst of desperation in the VN, but the anime built up to it through his dialogue. Keeping Riki's voice constantly emotional as he called out to Kyousuke didn't make it better overall imo. In the anime, Riki's lines get more and more intense as it goes on, all building up to the ones "I don't want you to go!" and eventually the "That's because I love you, Kyousuke" and "So that's why I want to stay with you forever!" lines. The VN makes his lines for this part all similarly voiced in intensity, and I think that's not the best way to do it. As for the lines when Masato disappears, he does seem more genuinely surprised in the VN, but it was also executed differently in the anime. Riki's higher pitched voice in the VN adds to that impact and confusion. |
MCAL said: I like the anime voice acting for Kyousuke. In the VN, while the voice acting is very good, its in one tone. While in the anime, Midorikawa's voice is fluctuating a bit, like he is struggling not to completely break down into a complete mess. You know what I am trying to get at... Yeah, this is exactly why I thought Riki's was much better as well. The line by line voice acting in the VN made it seem not quite as good. |
| The episode with Rin fit into the story thematically, and it's what pushes the whole conflict of Refrain forward. It's what made Riki and Rin losing their memories that much more heartbreaking. ep 5 = Kyosuke gone, leaving viewer literally in the dark ep 6 = Kengo ep 7 = Masato & Kengo ep 8 = Masato ep 9 = Kengo ep 10 = Kyosuke ep 11 = Bros And there you go. No episode for the main heroine. Every other girl got 3-4 episodes for them, though Rin did have some parts scattered in season 1. We watched 37+ episodes to know one.single.secret. From the beginning the season 1. (Season 1 Episode 2 actually) This is long, this is so-called slow-paced. You know the Secret of the World, so you don't konw... You once knew, but have fotgot. You knew how eagerly we want to know the Secret. Just like the chinken and eggs story of Komari, you forgot the zeal of want-to-know. This has to do with how the anime handled the Secret of the World. The VN didn't make it a race to get to the Secret. The anime threw hundreds of hints at the viewer, constantly teasing the with the Secret. People spent too much time expecting the Secret, and not getting engaged in the characters that the story was about. Your entire mentality that you watched 37+ episodes to "know one.single.secret." is representative of that. The VN had subtle hints with the Secret, but most of the time, we were nearly as naive as Riki about it. The anime threw in HUNDREDS of hints that WEREN'T in the VN, constantly saying "The Secret is coming". The want to know the Secret shouldn't have been important than enjoying the journey. Anyway, like I already said, the anime wasn't supposed to be filler to buildup and delay the Secret, because that is definitely not what the story was doing. The anime writers thought it would be a way to entice people to keep watching. They couldn't make the content on its own stand out enough, and I guess they didn't want the Secret feeling like a surprise at all, considering how it was spoiled several times over before Kyousuke even told Riki it. |
Vladz0rDec 15, 2013 10:57 PM
| @VladzOr: Saw your gallery OMG!!!! |
AnimeFan500Dec 15, 2013 11:03 PM
Vladz0r said: The episode with Rin fit into the story thematically, and it's what pushes the whole conflict of Refrain forward. It's what made Riki and Rin losing their memories that much more heartbreaking. ep 5 = Kyosuke gone, leaving viewer literally in the dark ep 6 = Kengo ep 7 = Masato & Kengo ep 8 = Masato ep 9 = Kengo ep 10 = Kyosuke ep 11 = Bros We watched 37+ episodes to know one.single.secret. From the beginning the season 1. (Season 1 Episode 2 actually) This is long, this is so-called slow-paced. You know the Secret of the World, so you don't konw... You once knew, but have fotgot. You knew how eagerly we want to know the Secret. Just like the chinken and eggs story of Komari, you forgot the zeal of want-to-know. This has to do with how the anime handled the Secret of the World. The VN didn't make it a race to get to the Secret. The anime threw hundreds of hints at the viewer, constantly teasing the with the Secret. People spent too much time expecting the Secret, and not getting engaged in the characters that the story was about. Your entire mentality that you watched 37+ episodes to "know one.single.secret." is representative of that. The VN had subtle hints with the Secret, but most of the time, we were nearly as naive as Riki about it. The anime threw in HUNDREDS of hints that WEREN'T in the VN, constantly saying "The Secret is coming". The want to know the Secret shouldn't have been important than enjoying the journey. Anyway, like I already said, the anime wasn't supposed to be filler to buildup and delay the Secret, because that is definitely not what the story was doing. The anime writers thought it would be a way to entice people to keep watching. They couldn't make the content on its own stand out enough, and I guess they didn't want the Secret feeling like a surprise at all, considering how it was spoiled several times over before Kyousuke even told Riki it. I always see you use this argument, but I never see it as an argument for why the anime is bad, but why Little Busters is so difficult to adapt. If it wasn't for the hints towards the secret, it would literally be loads of pointless slice-of-life episodes and the odd character route here and there. Even with them, some people dropped LB for being too 'slice-of-life'. It was different with the VN, because they threw in mini-games to keep the player enticed. They had the ranking system, the baseball mini-game, the items and such other things. And it's not like Clannad where you can cut lots of those scenes, because Little Busters' common route is very important. Hell, I still find LB's common route to be sort of dull because there's SO MUCH of it. Look at Rewrite as a good example of a common route. Drastically important things happen in that to make the story interesting constantly. It'd work well as an anime. LB's common route however, is too much silly playing around with mostly just set-up. I think that's one of the problems of making an anime out of LB. |
| Having watched the anime before I read the visual novel, it never really came across to me that the secret of the world was something bigger. I had thought it was just some supernatural phenomenon that existed in their world, as suggested by and to the extent of the gear, Midori, and the blacked out date on the clock. Either I'm an idiot or JC had actually done a good job at not blaring the secret of the world too much at you during the first season. It wasn't until after I read the VN that I realized peculiar scenes in the anime that may seem as an in-your-face by JC. One such scene being the dialogue between Kyousuke and Kud about remembering "everything." Or Kyousuke's ominous let-me-stand-here-look-cool-pose during Komari's arc and when Riki was made leader. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that everyone is going to see pacing and symbolism differently, and how they receive it on an emotional level such that it will affect how they view that particular scene is not entirely 100% the result of a studio's adaptation of the source. |
| "I've always seen failure as a possibility, but never as an option." vndb||Serumeito Twitter||Discord: Bunny of Wrath#3201   |
| Yeah, keeping events enticing is definitely an issue. The major issue imo is that most of the Secret hints occured in this season, and people started getting so eager for the Secret this season. It wasn't like they were putting all those hints in s1. They've been scattering them throughout the most important parts of the show and getting people worked up for the Secret. Still, I think if some episodes were more finely tuned, like Kengo foreshadowing the outcome of Riki and Rin's runaway, and better animation and direction / sound direction in episodes 7-8, those changes alone could've made a huge difference and kept people interested in the bros, and not just the Secret. Also Masato's farewell I ofc wanted to see fixed. My argument is more that the content of the episodes isn't as impactful as I thought it could be, and that the Secret is what's keeping viewers interested, rather than story at hand. I don't think people will appreciate the journey as something that felt natural, but rather something of a race towards the Secret. |
Vladz0r said: Yeah, keeping events enticing is definitely an issue. The major issue imo is that most of the Secret hints occured in this season, and people started getting so eager for the Secret this season. It wasn't like they were putting all those hints in s1. They've been scattering them throughout the most important parts of the show and getting people worked up for the Secret. Still, I think if some episodes were more finely tuned, like Kengo foreshadowing the outcome of Riki and Rin's runaway, and better animation and direction / sound direction in episodes 7-8, those changes alone could've made a huge difference and kept people interested in the bros, and not just the Secret. Also Masato's farewell I ofc wanted to see fixed. My argument is more that the content of the episodes isn't as impactful as I thought it could be, and that the Secret is what's keeping viewers interested, rather than story at hand. I don't think people will appreciate the journey as something that felt natural, but rather something of a race towards the Secret. I see your point and I believe that some of the characters weren't as fleshed out as they could've been due to J.C.'s focus on plot, but the plot of LB is still enough to carry it and have the viewers enjoy it plenty. Not only that, but I feel characters like Kengo and Kyousuke got a lot of good characterisation this season and I think the anime-only viewers have come to like them to a high level (Maybe not on the level of the Visual Novel because a Visual Novel will always explore more sides to a character). |
Kashifam said: Doesn't the end remind you guys alot of angel beats? All the friends disappearing in the end? The ending is like angel beats but in a better way since each character had their story told In these 2 seasons unlike in angel beats :O Truly, you are my nigga <3 Key/ Jun Maeda wrote both stories, and the original LB story came out before the AB anime. So, Angel Beats feels like a spiritual successor to Little Busters. |
| Wow that was a really powerful episode.. I even had a tear xD Such a nice episode I really really enjoyed it alot, I think I may have to read the visual novel if people are saying that it's even more powerful than this episode. It seems weird to me though that there is another two episode after this one because that was such a fitting end to this series imo. |
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| Even though I didn't cry, it was an amazing episode that explained everything. Such a great plot twist/explanation. Would have been even better if done by Kyoani. |
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RediceRyan said: Even though I didn't cry, it was an amazing episode that explained everything. Such a great plot twist/explanation. Would have been even better if done by Kyoani. Please dont mention Kyoani in these threads anyore. It might cause another Kyoani vs JC Staff discussion. |
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Vladz0r said: MCAL said: I like the anime voice acting for Kyousuke. In the VN, while the voice acting is very good, its in one tone. While in the anime, Midorikawa's voice is fluctuating a bit, like he is struggling not to completely break down into a complete mess. You know what I am trying to get at... Yeah, this is exactly why I thought Riki's was much better as well. The line by line voice acting in the VN made it seem not quite as good. It didn't help that Morikawa had a really bad mic and he peaked it like a mofo in this scene. I guess he was recording from home haha, he sounded like he was recording into a barrel the whole game. Kinda funny they actually let his mic quality slide in general. Though I guess that's the VA in me being overly picky. |
| Midorikawa's voice sounds fine in the VN to me o_O |
Vladz0r said: Midorikawa's voice sounds fine in the VN to me o_O Yeah it's one of those things where if your not familiar with it, you might not realize it (which in this case that's good!). But yeah either A: he recorded in a bad room, or B: He had his mic on the wrong setting which made the frequency way too high (as his voice comes off a little higher in the VN because of this). Or both, I'm really not sure. Like said, you might not realize it unless your actually a VA where you have to be picky about this stuff hah. |
| Shit, I almost cried. It's hard for Kyousuke to end that world. Seeing Kyousuke cries feels like I want to cry too. Riki and Rin should prepare for the real world. Can't wait to see the real world. That was a great twist. |
MakuroDec 16, 2013 10:45 AM
| Thank you. Really, thank you for doing a good job with the best part of the story. The almost identical adaptation is exactly what I wanted to see here, and even though it wasn't as impactful as the VN (because obviously I already knew it), it still made my eyes wet at Kengo's and Kyosuke's farewells. Masato felt better in VN, but it was more because of the attachment to the character that came from his Refrain part. On the other hand, all those regrets... T.T |
| inb4 they all come back to life. I hope not, though. This was a really great episode. Bringing them back to life would ruin everything. |
Mormegil said: inb4 they all come back to life. I hope not, though. This was a really great episode. Bringing them back to life would ruin everything. Mm, if you knew Jun Maeda's policy since 2001's Air VN you'd know that... Key's endings are the most controversial thing. I don't even plan to post in the Episode 13 discussion beyond 1 initial comment because I can just imagine the silly intense discussions trying to back up the ending for a story from 6 years ago, as if it hadn't already been discussed to death in VN discussions and from Key's other works. To say that a happy ending would ruin the series, though, I dunno. Even if Key magic were to save them, I would be able to refute the whole "The story was pointless" argument pretty quickly. There's also the fact that the Little Busters haven't actually died yet. Kyousuke is assuming that him blocking the bus from episode 10 won't be able to do much but delay the explosion. That episode proved that the LBs aren't quite dead yet, and how could the world be sustained if they were already dead? |
Vladz0rDec 16, 2013 6:51 PM
| Masato leaving was shit in the anime Masato leaving was shit in the visual novel #Blamethesourcematerialformakingmasatoashittycharacteringeneralnottheanime |
Hoshimaru57 said: I liked this show, no matter what people say about it. I waited years for an anime, knowing full well that, when this one went downhill I wouldn't have the ability to turn my back. I waited 4 years for the Little Busters anime. I am not disappointed in the makers, I'm disappointed in the fans who've waited far longer and been far more faithful. Even if they die with nobody caring about the show, even if it goes down as a failure, I'll stick with it. I liked this show, and strange as it is, I think I could survive an ending where it ends with the world dissolving into nothing and credits rolling. I could never accept death, but this seems okay to me...of course, this isn't the end. My nigga |
planetarian said: Masato leaving was shit in the anime Masato leaving was shit in the visual novel #Blamethesourcematerialformakingmasatoashittycharacteringeneralnottheanime Heh, that pretty much is what this thread is about. They could've spiced up his farewell, because he WAS the main comedic relief of the entire series. I imagined a stoic farewell with Masato turning and slowly walking away, hand waving while he's facing away from Riki as he slowly disintegrates and disappears while Riki is in awe. He wasn't dynamic, but he was around for a while and entertained a lot of people. It could've been a cool impact if they utilized him a bit differently. |
Vladz0rDec 17, 2013 12:27 AM
| Putting things into perspective... Little Busters! ~Refrain~ episode 11 vs. The IDOLM@STER episode 20 http://imgur.com/kKZnjYH |
arsonal said: Putting things into perspective... Little Busters! ~Refrain~ episode 11 vs. The IDOLM@STER episode 20 http://imgur.com/kKZnjYH Putting le things into le perspective le... The IDOLM@STER episode 20 vs. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (2012) episode 20. http://i.imgur.com/g90faC3.png |
arsonal said: Putting things into perspective... Little Busters! ~Refrain~ episode 11 vs. The IDOLM@STER episode 20 http://imgur.com/kKZnjYH Wow a show can have that many 5/5s for an episode and still have such a low score. How do you guys show the score like that anyway? I tried but couldn't figure it out. Gintama enchousen episode 7 has 97% 5/5s so that beats all. |
Ragna92Dec 17, 2013 8:52 AM
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| If this was Umm how Umm will be episode 12. |
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| Im one of the one's that gave the show 4/5 :c Masato farewell just messed it up for me~ |
Reckoner said: I don't think I've seen anyone complain about Masato's farewell that isn't a VN reader. Wonder what this says about the audience? :S Read the VN and ull understand~ Im not saying his farewell was bad, but it wasnt on par with the VN at all~ |
Ragna92 said: arsonal said: Putting things into perspective... Little Busters! ~Refrain~ episode 11 vs. The IDOLM@STER episode 20 http://imgur.com/kKZnjYH Wow a show can have that many 5/5s for an episode and still have such a low score. How do you guys show the score like that anyway? I tried but couldn't figure it out. Gintama enchousen episode 7 has 97% 5/5s so that beats all. Holy crap and I thought Jojo had the highest rating for an episode on this site. Man Gintama...I watch you so slowly, I feel like I'll never get to that episode ahhh. Masato's farewell was just too different for VN readers is all. As you can see reckoner, most can't watch with an open mind. Makes me wonder why they watch the show at all sometimes haha. I thought it was super touching in either scene and fitting for the way this Masato has been portrayed. |
Reckoner said: I don't think I've seen anyone complain about Masato's farewell that isn't a VN reader. Wonder what this says about the audience? :S It says that VN players prefer the VN version of Masatos farewell over the anime one. In my opinion masatos farewell was the best of the three in the vn and the only one that made me tear up. |
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-Riptide- said: Reckoner said: I don't think I've seen anyone complain about Masato's farewell that isn't a VN reader. Wonder what this says about the audience? :S It says that VN players prefer the VN version of Masatos farewell over the anime one. In my opinion masatos farewell was the best of the three in the vn and the only one that made me tear up. i prefer the VN one, (the white background, i'm sorry). i also liked that his voice was a little bit more calm in the VN, but the anime one was good too. im not really complaining |
| この世界には。。。秘密がある |
| I have expressed my critique towards Little Busters several times especially towards the first season, but this episode really had me moved. This episode gave the feelings i expect when watching a Keys adaptions which makes it the best episode of Little Busters so far. The thing i am wondering about is what next looking at the number of episodes we still have two episodes to go but looking at it story wise it doesn't seem like much can be added. |
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