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| Oreki.....MESSED UP?!?! That's bad. Even I completely forgot about the rope. |
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| What Houtarou came up with sure was unexpected and brilliant I've gotta say. Having the cameraman be the seventh person who was there the whole time, damnn what a twist. What's a bigger twist however was that ending, I didn't see that coming either. Him forgetting all about the rope which makes the mystery incomplete. That "Why didn't she ask EBA?" came up again, damn it somebody go ask Eba already! |
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| Houtarou and Satoshi seem to have quite a lot in common despite seeming so different on the outside as both of them are underestimating their potentials and regard each other as much greater individuals than themselves. Irisu hit Houtarou at his apparently weakest point: his self-esteem. His argument that he is fine with a "grey" life and his low energy strategy are merely a pretense to hide his own insecurity, though I'm sure he doesn't even realise this himself as it is probably an unconscious protective measure. |
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| What's that line "Why didn't she ask EBA" at the end means? It's there for 3 chapter already, still couldn't get it.. |
| Keep moving forward |
SakuraRainbow said: I don't understand how the rope thing disproves Houtarou's theory. Doesn't it just mean Haba had a stupid theory? It's a declared clue. In mystery fiction, each declared clue should contain some meanings or be some parts of the solved mystery. I don't think this is stated in the commandments, but it is usually the case. That's why I still believe that there is the seventh character, because Sawakiguchi declared this clue about another actor. I also believe that the rope should have some meanings in Hongou's thoughts, because Haba declared it. Let's say, if it turns out that both clues are just a farce that has no meaning at all, this show will turn into a disappointing crappy mystery show. I honestly don't want that to happen. I don't think Houtarou's deduction is disproved though. He just forgot that there should be a rope somewhere in his deduction. I still think that he is mostly right, otherwise it will be so lame. He has been badass so far. OFF-TOPIC: For a character, of course, I like Eru-chan the most since she is damn cute. But for character development, so far, I'd pick Mayaka. She is getting used to Houtarou's witty deduction and is opening up to him. She has no problem hanging out alone with him for the sake of mystery solving. She can even say sorry to him. Last time she seemed to talked about him to her cousins and I honestly expected that she spoke highly of him. So to put it simply, she is being nicer to him. And on top of that, she is also pretty witty about mystery. I hope she will change her direction from Satoshi to Houtarou for love polygon's sake. LOL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
KaitoDashJun 25, 2012 10:06 AM
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FlierFin663 said: The smallest change in a keys tooth can make it not work for the same lock... It used to be the slightest change but shit broke too much because people didn't care for the tools they used...@ kyled00m To be honest, there's not that much difference between any of the keys - they're all pretty generic. But I'm glad you brought up the windows in the two waiting rooms. Everyone assumes someone had to enter through the main hallway or the Left Wing window, but both of the waiting rooms are perfectly viable. |
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| What a clever solution to the mystery or was it? ;) |
| My theory about the rope. |
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| Oreki failed and Chitanda devastated because of that and cant see Oreki....I want to slap her so much...:DDD |
 "The other side of the other side of the other side would be the other side" |
| I think everyone is overlooking Irisu sempai maybe because of her looks but she is completely manipulating Oreki. I feel like this entire mystery was that she is trying to make him fail by psychologically hitting his weak points, either in order to prepare him for a much bigger mystery or she is a villain herself. |
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| @Yemi_Hikari I was talking about one of the two waiting rooms before the murder box being the room that was used to enter from the second to the first floor because the windows in both of those rooms were both open. 1) Yuri is one of the two people who travels back to get the master key, also was the one who first got the idea to grab the master key. 2) Yuri also is the second one to pick up a key, directly after the murder victim. 3) Yuri suggested the location to sleep in. 4) Yuri Also was one of the two people in the storage room where they picked up the keys. 5) Yuri also suggested the master key stay in the storage room. (Giving the chance to grab it herself. There just so many things that happen in the movie that were led by Yuri. One of the reasons that the rope from the second to the first floor was knocked down was because they were not sure that the weight of a person could have been supported by the house because of the age. Though this was not confirmed. I could not think of another reason for the rope though so this was what i came up as a final conclusion. |
| nice episode wasnt expecting oreki to fail |
| Ah, what should i say? Hyouka is not one of the geratest shows in its genre, but I don't care. I really enjoy those techniqes the studio uses to present the characters and the stories. It's artistically beautiful. It's an art. And honestly, the end was one of the best cliffhangers ever! xD Totally forgot about it. |
| I like that we get to see Satoshi in a different .. face? Persona? I don't know, the other colors of his character. Did not get the last thing about the rope until I read the comments here, but yeah, Chitanda looked so disappointed and aw, I feel kind of sad for Oreki he seemed so proud to have gotten it done and then it was wrong? I don't know, I look forward to what's waiting. |
| I say the author of the story is the culprit though i forgot her name. Haha, just kidding xD. Yuri is too suspicious to be the culprit really. Somehow i don't believe it's her. It's too easy. |
| That was quite unexpected. Waiting for ep 11 ^^ |
| Fire Emblem Heroes - 9261576256 |
| :o Houtarou forgot a major clue. I totally did as well, lol. The cut off limb still nags at me. Just, why? Perhaps there was an accomplice? I can't see why the rope was needed, so this is really scratching at my brain. I need to write down all the clues. |
VyudaliJun 25, 2012 2:26 PM
| nice episode and i can't wait for the next one well this is my theory : I think Sojemora Gero is the culprit and it can't be Yuri cause Hongue used Knox's "Ten Commandments Commandment No.1 says : The criminal must be mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to know. and Yuri is suspicious to be the culprit when Yuri and Sojemora were talking about the master key the record stopped and Sojemora was behind Yuri so there is a chance he could stole the master key then use the rope to get down from the Utility room to the garden and move to the second waiting room witch it's window is broken then to Kaitou and go back to the Office Please take a look at this picture :  It's easy to pull the window up then return the keys to their place and use the rope to go back to the Utility room |
 Guts, known as the Black Swordsman, seeks sanctuary from the demonic forces attracted to him and his woman because of a demonic mark on their necks, and also vengeance against the man who branded him as an unholy sacrifice. Aided only by his titanic strength gained from a harsh childhood lived with mercenaries, a gigantic sword, and an iron prosthetic left hand, Guts must struggle against his bleak destiny, all the while fighting with a rage that might strip him of his humanity. |
| Nice twist, now I am interested for such a boring movie to get all this hype is so unusual. |
| This episode was pretty disappointing to me.....It's good that the mystery came to a close (or at least was coming to one). The lack of Chitanda in this episode was disturbing. Chitanda should be with Oreki at all times. |
| Damn, that was an awesome twist ending to this episode, it seemed to have gotten dark all of a sudden. |
Vyudali said: :o Houtarou forgot a major clue. I totally did as well, lol. The cut off limb still nags at me. Just, why? Perhaps there was an accomplice? I can't see why the rope was needed, so this is really scratching at my brain. I need to write down all the clues. They were told in ep. 9 that the severed arm was improvised. Hongou's script just says his arm is badly wounded. |
| Haha at anyone who dropped this, stuff's actually happening now. The ending was really well-done; gave me a chill. Totally forgot about the rope prop. |
| I've watched it just now and I couldn't help the feeling that Houtarou's explanation was not on the money, even though I had forgotten about rope myself. To me there seems to be a lot of problems with this mystery. To list them: 1) Bad acting makes it difficult to deduce motives and to suspect culprits via body language. What struck me when I saw episode 8 for the first time was that the small girl immediately knew where the keys were (in fact, she was sure they were there) along with the master keys and she was quick to tell the difference between the two in a half-lit room. 2) The flashlight disturbingly popping up, prevents us from dismissing the possibility that the cameraman may very well be another character, especially given the fact that the camera movements were ridiculously amateuristic. I find this hard to believe for several reasons. If no one talks to him or acknowledges him, why the hell is he there? 3) The murder itself; how did Kaitou die? If he died from exsanguination after the killer cut off his arm, one would expect him to scream for mummy and writhe in excruciating pain long enough for anyone to notice it in that cracked, abandoned dump. However if the limb was cut off post-mortem (assuming the killer went for an aortic stab or a slit throat, in which case, he would go down rather quitely), then why was the arm cut off? Why was it lying in the corner of the room? The props guy didn't mention that Hongou specifically requested a fake arm. In fact, he mentioned that Hondou ordered a small amount of blood, and that they had to dilute it to get more out of it. This could imply that the severed arm was not originally intended by the writer, but artistic license on the part of someone in the filming crew. If we temporarily presume the previous issue is cleared up, we hit another brick wall. Why would the murderer lock the room? Why would he go out on a limb and risk exposure, to get a master key, specifically to lock the room wherein he was going to commit murder, and then go again to put it back? He didn't need the key, because Kaitou had already unlocked the room and there wasn't anyone else in the first floor right-wing to fool (which could've been done more easily by closing the door). 4) The mysterious rope; since it wasn't used up until the initial filming stopped, it inevitably raises the question whether or not the script and the film were completed up to the point where all the clues were already included. Even if all those detective rules were followed to the letter, it would be utterly pointless to figure this out when additional clues are missing. So obviously, the rope is moot. The previous episode made it evident that entry/exit through the window was out of the question. The rope wasn't present at the crime scene so we have to assume it was used after the actual act, and probably even before. It is said it needed to be able to carry one person. So obviously the culprit used it to escape or get close to Kaitou's location, he just didn't use the window at the crime scene. Not sure if the concluding episode will take all of these problems into account. At this moment, I can't really think of one over-arching explanation myself. My best guess is this: |
modderfokkerJun 25, 2012 4:57 PM
Albert Einstein said: Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. |
| I'm continuing to think there is something else here and it's never been about the movie. I think Oreki was used, and his lack of experience with pride and flattery let him walk right into it. |
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Cratex said: I'm continuing to think there is something else here and it's never been about the movie. I think Oreki was used, and his lack of experience with pride and flattery let him walk right into it. I'm starting to believe so as well. Apparently his reputation as a "detective" did spread outside of the Classics Club, someone might have thought it be fun to test him. |
Albert Einstein said: Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. |
| Mebs the cameraman is supposed to commit suicide after being found out. We'll see. I'm hyped for the next episode, cliffhangers are a killer. |
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| A little on things. First off I will not concentrate on the mystery but more on what we learn of the characters and why the end was like that. So let’s start with Romance between Houtarou x Irisu. About Houtarou x Irisu, it really becomes more obvious when the sky is shown in the spoiler As it follows from above key point in the spoiler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_(Tarot_card) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empress_(Tarot_card) Can clear perhaps some stuff as to each of their qualities and maybe why Houtarou got swept away by her request. It is also to emphasize that part the spoiler Now finally Irisu’s story in the spoiler About Satoshi, there are 2 things I picked of him this episode. For one he has big jealousy over Houtarou being praised by Irisu. That is apparent with the shadows in his face in the spoiler The second element is mainly Yamauchi in the spoiler About Houtarou’s thinking, I think it was great and despite the many elements it consisted of in the spoiler  Along with how enticing it was to see Houtarou walking in the thinking of the movie with multi facets of its different parts integrated in each screen. I did not think his brain even had the energy to do that. About Irisu/Houtarou talk, as she comes in the club in the spoiler As the explanation starts in the spoiler As it finally come along comes proof #2 of this segment that Irisu favors him in the spoiler About thee end of the episode, finally the end comes first as a nice surprise of seeing Junya in the spoiler  I liked her sudden MOE there along with how she approaches Houtarou first in the spoiler In regards to Haba’s anger in the spoiler In regards to Eru, in the spoiler In regards to Ibara, most likely the biggest key point since the BGM along with SFX showed it like that. This part can be shown in three phases of changes in Ibara: A) At first she is aggressive in the spoiler B) Ibara’s sudden change back to some sort of sadness/unfairness face in the spoiler C) Comes to light with Ibara all she wanted to convey to Houtarou in the spoiler Remains to see how it pans out in the next episode. About the preview, I see nothing but regret and shock to oneself in the spoiler BTW Image Dump in the BLOG: http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/06/hyouka-episode-10-image-dump-come-and.html Got some time for that. No possible Stitches for this episode. Who are: Tougaito Masashi and Omichi? |
| I've got to admit, I was disappointed with Oreki's initial theory, not because I saw anything wrong with it, but because it was just so anti-climactic. By his theory, there never was a "mystery" in the scope of the film; they found a dead body and already knew the culprit. So I'm hoping that a different theory is going to pop up. However, even though they forgot about the rope, can it actually be a part of the murder? Hongou was supposedly following the rules of mystery (or w/e they're called), but the rope wasn't shown or noted at all before the dead body was discovered. We only know about it because Hongou supposedly called for one. Or was it supposedly mentioned in the script but not around for the filming? But I'm pretty sure they also made a point that everything that was filmed so far was good as far as the script accounted for. EDIT: Although, I guess the mystery doesn't have to be solved right there and the remaining five can still look for clues. Murder mysteries usually start with a murder, after all, after which the clues are found, but if that's the case, spending multiple episodes trying to discover the culprit on what could easily be limited information is kind of pointless. |
FloreteJun 25, 2012 6:56 PM
| I'm glad Houtarou is shown to be not perfect, otherwise that would have been boring. The rope twist (no pun) was a nice touch. |
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Shiyumi said: I know why I feel something strange when Irisu accept Oreki's theory. The anime and some of the fansubs didn't do a good job with the kanji dialogue. So, we didn't fully understand what was going on when they online chat in episode 8 began. I recognize the dialogue mostly matches the exposition in episode 8. So I'll assume that the novel and anime are the same. I get the feeling that "A.ta.shi♪" is Oreki's older sister. I also think "anonymous" is Irisu as she's the one stuck with the movie problem and asks the classics club for help. Irisu must have been a school acquaintance of Oreki's sister. A.ta.shi♪: i wouldn't say he could do this, but you could make him do errands for you A.ta.shi♪: you could even make him dance Pretty much goes along the lines of Irisu has gotten permission to use Oreki and manipulate him into figuring out the plot mess for her. Irisu is intelligent and I think she would have the same info as the club had. I think when Oreki came up with his theory and left out the rope, she knew. But thinking over it she felt his story was strong enough to go with anyways, she just congratulated Oreki and went with it. The members of the classics club being due diligent nerds knew it was wrong and Ibara couldn't let it go. |
CirrisJun 25, 2012 9:17 PM
| I'd like to point out that the movie was simply a screening; it has yet to be shown to the entire school. So they could still easily change it after Oreki fixes his theory. |
Cirris said: I get the feeling that "A.ta.shi♪" is Oreki's older sister. o.o I hadn't thought of that. That chatroom conversation suddenly makes a lot more sense. It sounds like Irisu's been given some tips on how to manipulate Oreki from his sister, as well as probably being naturally manipulative herself. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for him now... That also confirms his sister as the person from 'outside school' that Irisu said had recommended him at the start of ep. 9. (The other two she mentioned were Chitanda and Tougaito Masashi, whose name I'd forgotten, but he was the guy in one of the early episodes who was hiding his cigarettes in the box where their club anthologies were kept.) Enslavement said: I'd like to point out that the movie was simply a screening; it has yet to be shown to the entire school. So they could still easily change it after Oreki fixes his theory. Yeah, I thought that too, this was just a preview screening so they can still change it if necessary. Shiyumi said: Next eps "End Credits of The Fool". The rope=The Hanged Man+The Wheel of Fate ?=The Fool Towards the end of ep. 8, when they're talking about tarot cards, Satoshi says Chitanda is The Fool. Don't know if that has anything to do with the title. |
antisenseJun 25, 2012 10:04 PM
Helpme said: Some scenarios. The girl in a blue dress exits the window in her room, goes around the building's front, enters via a side room window, kills the victim. She then changes keys with the victim, locks the door, and returns the way she came. The boy in the room overlooking the lobby uses a rope to climb down to the lobby, thus possibly avoiding the girl in the corridor outside, fetches the master key, which he had pointed out to him earlier, goes down the corridor and kills the victim. He then locks the door, returns the master key and climbs back up. The cameraman really is a seventh character, violating the rules. But he and the boy in the room overlooking the lobby can vouch for each other. Instead, the nerdy girl uses a rope to climb down from a window, enters a side room window, kills the victim, and then returns the way she came. As for the locked door, she could either have done done the key swap, or she took the real master key from the start, only picking up the key she was supposed to have when she claimed to get the master key. I hope I'm missing something here, but I can't disprove any of those while a mystery is supposed to have but one solution. 1) blue dress girl was on the first floor with orange shirt guy. No need for a rope, which is something of importance to the REAL story 2) Can't have the master key on her when she "goes to retrieve it" she was PURPOSELY paired with peach dress girl. |
CirrisJun 26, 2012 12:54 AM
| I'm so glad that I picked up this series; as each episode comes along, it just gets better and more interesting. It was nice to actually see that Houtarou had made a mistake- I was actually shocked about the rope as I had also forgotten about it as well, a very nice twist... I dont necessarily think his theory was completely wrong, but might have just been incomplete. Although we won't know until the next episode for sure and I'm looking forward to how it will all pan out :) |
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| Thank goodness Houtarou's cameraman theory was imperfect. Some people may think it's ingenious but personally I thought his solution was very very unsatisfying. |
| So he followed Sawakiguchi's theory. I think the final theory will be mixture of all theories presented including Oreki's current one. |
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| Instead of exploring all the technicalities of the situation.. What was the motive to kill? |
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