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| I thought the two-part arc was slightly overrated. The music was touching and Gren received a proper send off, but the storytelling was confused and slightly incoherent. Gren wanted to find out if Vicious had betrayed him, however the dialogue before he uses the bomb they hand him to attack Vicious and kill Lin wouldn't have told him either way. He then fails to use an explosive strong enough to blow Vicious out of the sky before proceeding to be shot out of the sky by Vicious's air missiles himself. How can a man who served as Vicious's brother-in-arms during the war on Titan be so bad at killing a man he definitely had the drop on repeatedly? Furthermore he thoroughly prepared to kill Vicious and attacks him before truly knowing if he was actually betrayed or not. I think people are mistaking pot gaps and ambivalence as some sort of transcendental depth to the narrative that simply isn't there. I like Bebop a lot but people overhype and overrate it. The storytelling is surprisingly weak and incoherent in places and this two episode arc is actually a good demonstration of that fact. Why did Gren even take Faye back to his apartment before arranging the drop? There seems to be no rhyme or reason other than giving the writers a chance to set up the shower scene to reveal that Gren has female breasts from the drugs he was forcibly given in prison. Why does he handcuff Faye other than to take her out of the plot set up a convenient place for Jet to rescue her? Why did Spike just run into Vicious without preparation then threaten to kill him? That whole confrontation did nothing for the story and didn't make any sense. Vicious would arguably have murdered Spike right there given their previous encounter and extreme animosity. There are several other parts of the story that don't make any sense and function in such a way to further a weirdly convoluted story line. |
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| RIP Gren. Everyone is back on the Bebop now. |
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| For someone criticizing the storytelling so heavily, you sure missed a lot :) PrometheanSpark said: Gren wanted to find out if Vicious had betrayed him, however the dialogue before he uses the bomb they hand him to attack Vicious and kill Lin wouldn't have told him either way. Been a while since I watched this, but Gren says something like "were you (i.e. Vicious) trying to kill me again?" He was waiting for Vicious to deny he betrayed Gren the first time. Vicious didn't. Gren got his answer. PrometheanSpark said: He then fails to use an explosive strong enough to blow Vicious out of the sky before proceeding to be shot out of the sky by Vicious's air missiles himself. The bomb was his backup plan. His first was to shoot Vicious, which he might have done if Lin hadn't intervened. PrometheanSpark said: How can a man who served as Vicious's brother-in-arms during the war on Titan be so bad at killing a man he definitely had the drop on repeatedly? Because Vicious is that good. If you haven't noticed by now, he's pretty equal to Spike, and Spike has been shown to be an ace pilot. Gren, meanwhile, hadn't left the planet in years. He hadn't exactly been practicing his piloting skills. PrometheanSpark said: Furthermore he thoroughly prepared to kill Vicious and attacks him before truly knowing if he was actually betrayed or not. I think people are mistaking pot gaps and ambivalence as some sort of transcendental depth to the narrative that simply isn't there. How is this a plot hole? He went to confront Vicious because he wanted to find out if he was the one who betrayed him. He was pretty sure of it already because of what Julia told him, which is why he was prepared to kill Vicious, he just needed a final face-to-face talk to confirm it first. He wanted to believe that Vicious wasn't the one who betrayed him, which is why he gave Vicious a chance to deny it before firing. PrometheanSpark said: Why did Gren even take Faye back to his apartment before arranging the drop? Gren explained this one himself. He was lonely. He knew he was likely going to his death, and he wanted real human contact before he died. It's really a very human reaction, and part of why, historically, so many hasty marriages happen right before soldiers go off to war. They want to know that someone will remember them and miss them if they die, and that someone will be waiting for them if they come back. PrometheanSpark said: Why does he handcuff Faye other than to take her out of the plot set up a convenient place for Jet to rescue her? See above. So someone would be waiting for him if he came back. PrometheanSpark said: Why did Spike just run into Vicious without preparation then threaten to kill him? Spike wasn't expecting to find Vicious, he was expecting to find Julia. He didn't realize Vicious was using Julia's name until he found him there. It was a surprise for both of them, but once they were face-to-face, it was on. PrometheanSpark said: There are several other parts of the story that don't make any sense and function in such a way to further a weirdly convoluted story line. The convoluted storyline is one of the reasons Bebop is so great, actually. The fact that it isn't a straightfoward anime that holds the viewer's hand through the entire series is actually one of the main reasons I love it and think it's brilliant. If you're not willing to pay attention all the time and put some thought into what's going on, Bebop is simply not for you. And that's fine! Nothing has universal appeal. I just don't see why people have to declare "overrated and overhyped" because they personally don't like that thing. There's nothing wrong with simply saying "I didn't like it, it's not for me" and moving on. |
LunaLena said: For someone criticizing the storytelling so heavily, you sure missed a lot :) You fundamentally didn't understand any of the points I raised. I am not going to go through it for somebody so disrespectful and ridiculous. This is just embarrassingly bad.... |
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PrometheanSpark said: You fundamentally didn't understand any of the points I raised. I am not going to go through it for somebody so disrespectful and ridiculous. This is just embarrassingly bad.... Oh dear, what a devastating counterargument! Whatever shall I do. :) |
| Outstanding episode. Wow! |
| Wait, so Vicious's spaceship exploded partly and they just let him get away like that? |
| I really liked this mini-arc. Gren received a proper death. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| Awesome episode and some new things to plot of Vicious and Spike. I anxious to know more about Julia, she looks like be a precious character. |
| That ending. Perfect. Bebop is bliss. |
| the whole hormones thing was really pointless, i thought there was more than that. apart from that, really great arc, hope the story gonna keep it's quality. |
| These 2 single episodes did what entire seasons and series of anime cannot do today; make me feel, make me sit through all the credits contemplating life, and just, be damn good. Maybe I too, wish, I had a comrade. What an epic and that was just 2 episodes |
  NYANPASU  5700XT |
| The ending of this episode was beautifully done and somewhat moving. This has me coming back to the idea that the story is not as coherent as it could be to really provide that emotional impact it felt like the ending to this episode could have given. The music, aesthetic, and cinematography continue to be amazing quality, masterful even, but the story still falls behind which slightly brings the show's enjoyment down. |
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| I liked this one more than the previous part, although it did feel a lot shorter. I liked the send off for Mr. Sax, and I especially liked how it tied back into the begining of part 1. |
| It sucks that Gren had to go through all that while being imprisoned. I'm even more intrigued in Julia and Spike's past with her. This episode had a really good soundtrack, that ED was chilling and beautiful. |
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| What a bittersweet ending. I loved it! In the end, Gren managed to die in Titan. And the relationship between the Bebop crew grows deeper. |
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| The ending scene of this episode with the old dude saying that a warrior ended his battle along with the chant song was so mesmerizing.... |
| I wish there were more story arcs like this one, lasting for more than one episode. I'm not a fan of episodic series, but Cowboy Bebop is too good to pass on it because of its episodic character. |
| The music it’s always so darn good Bruh this episode left me feeling empty, like I barely knew anything about Gren, but it really hurt to see him die while trying to go back to a Special place. vicious is out here ruining character’s heart Julia Julia |
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| felt like a fucking movie |
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| Why did Faye start shooting Gren when he says he wanted to bring someone home before he died? |
| They finally leave the gay planet gren died for his gay and Lin died for his gay more spike vicious gay  Faye gets too gay bout julia  Jet and spike make up over their quarrel like it was nothing/ RIP Lin. He will go to heaven 4 fighting for one he loved. Spike was wrong. Lin died a honorable death for Vicious. |
 Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
| also some whee whee ending theme to go to |
Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
Reply to SaltyCookie
Why did Faye start shooting Gren when he says he wanted to bring someone home before he died?
| @Salty_Cookie Faye was in love with Gren. She was just shooting at him to deter him from meeting vincent. its one of those tsundere things |
Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
Reply to PrometheanSpark
I thought the two-part arc was slightly overrated. The music was touching and Gren received a proper send off, but the storytelling was confused and slightly incoherent.
Gren wanted to find out if Vicious had betrayed him, however the dialogue before he uses the bomb they hand him to attack Vicious and kill Lin wouldn't have told him either way. He then fails to use an explosive strong enough to blow Vicious out of the sky before proceeding to be shot out of the sky by Vicious's air missiles himself. How can a man who served as Vicious's brother-in-arms during the war on Titan be so bad at killing a man he definitely had the drop on repeatedly? Furthermore he thoroughly prepared to kill Vicious and attacks him before truly knowing if he was actually betrayed or not. I think people are mistaking pot gaps and ambivalence as some sort of transcendental depth to the narrative that simply isn't there.
I like Bebop a lot but people overhype and overrate it. The storytelling is surprisingly weak and incoherent in places and this two episode arc is actually a good demonstration of that fact.
Why did Gren even take Faye back to his apartment before arranging the drop? There seems to be no rhyme or reason other than giving the writers a chance to set up the shower scene to reveal that Gren has female breasts from the drugs he was forcibly given in prison. Why does he handcuff Faye other than to take her out of the plot set up a convenient place for Jet to rescue her?
Why did Spike just run into Vicious without preparation then threaten to kill him? That whole confrontation did nothing for the story and didn't make any sense. Vicious would arguably have murdered Spike right there given their previous encounter and extreme animosity.
There are several other parts of the story that don't make any sense and function in such a way to further a weirdly convoluted story line.
Gren wanted to find out if Vicious had betrayed him, however the dialogue before he uses the bomb they hand him to attack Vicious and kill Lin wouldn't have told him either way. He then fails to use an explosive strong enough to blow Vicious out of the sky before proceeding to be shot out of the sky by Vicious's air missiles himself. How can a man who served as Vicious's brother-in-arms during the war on Titan be so bad at killing a man he definitely had the drop on repeatedly? Furthermore he thoroughly prepared to kill Vicious and attacks him before truly knowing if he was actually betrayed or not. I think people are mistaking pot gaps and ambivalence as some sort of transcendental depth to the narrative that simply isn't there.
I like Bebop a lot but people overhype and overrate it. The storytelling is surprisingly weak and incoherent in places and this two episode arc is actually a good demonstration of that fact.
Why did Gren even take Faye back to his apartment before arranging the drop? There seems to be no rhyme or reason other than giving the writers a chance to set up the shower scene to reveal that Gren has female breasts from the drugs he was forcibly given in prison. Why does he handcuff Faye other than to take her out of the plot set up a convenient place for Jet to rescue her?
Why did Spike just run into Vicious without preparation then threaten to kill him? That whole confrontation did nothing for the story and didn't make any sense. Vicious would arguably have murdered Spike right there given their previous encounter and extreme animosity.
There are several other parts of the story that don't make any sense and function in such a way to further a weirdly convoluted story line.
| @PrometheanSpark well thats how it is. when watching adultswim shows, i recommend you get wasted first. |
Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
| A good conclusion to this two-part episode. I wish they would stop killing off the cool characters though. Starting to see how repetitive things are becoming. |
| What a great ending for this 2 parts arc, especially the song... |
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