realfifi said: This is Aniplex for you. They won't make a series long running unless it is Fate/SAO/KnY levels of profitability. Saekano had like 3x the disc sales of Kaguya and they still rushed the last 6 volumes into a movie. Yet people still simp for A1/Cloverworks like crazy despite the Nier CGI fiascoIt felt kinda rushed and not fullfilling, like not romantic? |
icefirestone23Apr 8, 2023 4:15 PM
Nox_Tenebris said: Orbakun said: Exactly this. Everyone has a dark side. You do (OP), I do, the person I'm quoting does, and same with the person reading this post. Kaguya wanted to show Shirogane her dark side because she wanted to know that Shirogane could love her even at her worst. That's why she took command and that's why she was so insufferable. ice kaguya wasn’t her real self, it’s part of her real self. Kaguya is the sum of her parts and the point of the arc was that Kaguya wanted to show Shirogane her full self and in order to do that she had to show him ice Kaguya. Yet, Kagyya isn't just an ice princess. It's one piece of her greater whole. She has changed and developed as a character, but that doesn't mean that this aspect of her was completely removed, just repressed, as mentioned in the movie. That's why it meant so much to her to hear that Shirogane knew of this aspect of her and loved her more for it. I hope every person who made a post on this thread actually reads what you said. It’s hilarious witnessing the analytical skills of some people watching shows these days. |
realfifi said: I kinda feel like the whole Ice Kaguya side ruined 3 season of Kaguya's character developement. I realize that both him and her were wearing masks of their perfect selves but come on after all that time that cold side of her cant be real her. It kinda bothers me. Also i feel like the bench scene and date scenes were missing something. It felt kinda rushed and not fullfilling, like not romantic? . Idk does anyone else feel the same way You say things were missing (which is exactly if you actually pay attention to the words at the bottom of the screen during watching). Kaguya didn’t want it to be SPECIAL and Shirogane didn’t want things to be as they ended up either. She tells him she doesn’t need him to be perfect and she just wants ordinary romance. If you think this kind of romance is missing something, then boy the real world must be missing something; this is closer to the norm. Like many other comments mention, that is just a fraction of herself that she hates the most. To call it her “real self” isn’t the correct designation. |
icefirestone23 said: realfifi said: This is Aniplex for you. They won't make a series long running unless it is Fate/SAO/KnY levels of profitability. Saekano had like 3x the disc sales of Kaguya and they still rushed the last 6 volumes into a movie. Yet people still simp for A1/Cloverworks like crazy despite the Nier CGI fiascoIt felt kinda rushed and not fullfilling, like not romantic? Yes! I absolutely adore this comment seeing as how the movie adapted this arc from the manga extremely faithfully. Leave it to those who lack information to jump to conclusions. |
No doubt, his analytical skills are very careful. Overall I agree with this statement |
| I actually like Kaguya's Ice Persona better. The Yandere vibes!!! 😅 |
| It's not that I dislike this genre but... to add unnecessary fan services to/in/for heroines and ultimately destroys her character and personality; their purity tarnished because of it, is the only thing I hope to not happen to them. For that sole purity is my fan service. |
VKDOOM said: The whole point of it is the frustration that love is achieved when two people put on a persona of their best selves. And she wanted to finally express her ugliest side because she wanted to be loved ordinarily rather than with balloons and big gestures expected from their backgrounds and their facades. She also was especially frustrated because she made the big gesture of kissing him and he still was too scared to make any advance towards her. It doesn’t ruin character development but rather shows that kaguya is not a fairy tale princess but a real person with flaws. I’m not sure why that ruins her character for you unless you’re one of those incels who think “ideal” women to have to be cute and innocent. Thank you for posting peak |
Nox_Tenebris said: Exactly this. Everyone has a dark side. You do (OP), I do, the person I'm quoting does, and same with the person reading this post. Kaguya wanted to show Shirogane her dark side because she wanted to know that Shirogane could love her even at her worst. That's why she took command and that's why she was so insufferable. Yet, Kagyya isn't just an ice princess. It's one piece of her greater whole. She has changed and developed as a character, but that doesn't mean that this aspect of her was completely removed, just repressed, as mentioned in the movie. That's why it meant so much to her to hear that Shirogane knew of this aspect of her and loved her more for it. I am not sure if you are summarizing the film, or if you actually agree with this. I am going to state an obvious set of truths now to everyone here. Being an asshole simply to see if your loved ones will continue loving you is horribly manipulative. This goes beyond simply having a bad day, this is outright toxic narcissism. Please do not think this is permissible in or indicative of a healthy relationship. It is not, and it is common for abusers to use this explanation to excuse themselves from any culpability in their actions. I trust my girlfriend not to mistreat me out of her own deep seated insecurities about me leaving her. Love is not an emotion, but a set of actions. If you love someone, then you'll act in a manner befitting that of love, be it cooking dinner for them after a long day or listening to them vent about a cranky coworker, not mistreat them. Again, there is a difference between being a bit irritable and what you are describing. Dark side my foot, we are all human beings. We should be able to handle our own shit to a certain degree. |
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| l take did you even finish all of the episodes |
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Nox_Tenebris said: I am doing both. Did you watch the film? Kaguya is a teenage high school girl going through her first love and is insecure, confused, and honestly just desperate for real (or "true" as she says lol) love. Yet, she can't believe it's real unless she shows him everything. She happened to choose to do this at a time where her emotions are completely out of whack and she is having a mental collapse. I get not using "this is the real me" as an excuse to be a dick to the person you love, but being able to take off that mask and be real should be what defines love. This IS action. In a perfect world, Kaguya would recognize this ugliness in her and be strong enough to deal with it. To talk to Shirogane and put all the cards on the table. But this cannot happen because: 1. This is an anime and that would basically be the ending. 2. Kaguya is not a perfect girl in a perfect world, that's kinda the whole arc. Some people are just flawed. Congrats to you and your perfect girlfriend, for for the rest of us, we do have ugliness inside that seems out and hurts the people around us. Congrats to you and your perfect girlfriend, for for the rest of us, we do have ugliness inside that seems out and hurts the people around us. Kaguya's solution was to avoid getting close to people so that didn't happen. Then Shirogane entered the scene and things changed. Now, she wants to believe she found love strong enough to pierce through that murk. Is her solution and way of going about it perfect? Hell, no. She's a mess. Maybe you couldn't love her despite that. Honestly, I don't know if I could either. However, Shirogane can. And as the anime continues, I'm sure he'll prove it. No, I have no watched the film, and my point stands whether or not it is applicable to Kaguya. It seems as if you are justifying actual assholery. There's a difference between having atypical hobbies or the casual flaw, and then there is just testing your partner. If I am getting to know someone and I wanted to be accepted, I would tell them my more niche hobbies or my anxieties, sure, but I would not actively distrust them or hurt them to see how loyal they really are. The latter is not healthy, and we really should not view it as such. There is a difference between being irritable every once in a wild and actively distrusting your partner or love interest to the extent that you actively mistreat them. You can condemn the action and still love the person. A lack of tolerance is not the eternal exclusion of acceptance. Part of a healthy relationship is tolerating those small moments of weakness because you know they will make an effort to be a better person. You can certainly forgive Kaguya for her age if she is doing this or the fact that she is an animated, fictional character in a romantic comedy, or if she is actively trying to become better. It is just that my radical idea is to maybe seek therapy or something rather than foisting your insecurities on your partner? Nox_Tenebris said: Congrats to you and your perfect girlfriend, for for the rest of us, we do have ugliness inside that seems out and hurts the people around us. Oh believe me, I have my issues too and my moments of weakness, but I try not to actively hurt people with my ugliness, and I should not justify it when I do. Love after all IS conditional, and generally contingent on treating your partner with the respect they deserve. Unmitigated toxicity is bad, essentially. |
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Nox_Tenebris said: First of all, you didn't watch the movie. Why not? Why are you here? You understand how this makes everything you say less credible when you aren't even familiar with scenes we are discussing, right? That said, I am not an idiot, and I understand that we are now not talking about the movie. Movie aside, this conversation is now about the philosophy of love. And on that point, I can see that we have fundamentally different viewpoints that will likely never come close intersecting. I am here because I find this conversation illuminating, and because like everyone else, I have a deep urge to reply when I see something potentially objectionable. I don't need to watch the movie to have this conversation with you. It does nothing to hinder or promote my credibility because yes, we are moving onto the broader topic of "love". That being said, I do think our viewpoints are much more similar than you suggest; we simply define the word "unconditional" differently. (Though I am a bit shocked as someone who is watching the series that Kaguya is apparently acting like such an asshole apparently, so there is that too. She never came across as Louise from Zero No Tsukaima to me.) Nox_Tenebris said: As paper ages poorly, so does that type of love. People change, on fundamental levels. Your girlfriend at this point in time very well may not be the same person ten or twenty years from now. Could you still love her then, even if she is someone else? If your answer to that question is "If she still treats me right and hasn't lost the aspects of her that made me love her in the first place" then 1. Awwww. and 2. Exactly. "If". I mean, it appears you think that kindness and the various other aspects that made me love her in the first place is important here. That is the definition of conditional, hinging on aspects (the conditions) that may or may not be intrinsic, but are not completely immalleable. So we both think love is "conditional", at least romantic love. I cannot love her if she turns into a vicious abuser or some sort. You are also right that people can change on fundamental levels. I know of a woman who husband changed into an alcoholic ten years in their marriage before everything fell apart. I would say she has every right to divorce him, because these types of relationships aren't a set of obligations, but a mutually beneficial, enjoyable, shared experiences that both parties consent to because they want to. Sex is seen by too many young men as something women have to reluctantly give in a relationship rather than an activity that can be enjoyed by both parties. To me, this is all conditional, to you this would probably be things that aren't factored into the definition of "unconditional love". Hence why I also define romantic love as different from parental love. Children do need to be loved first in order to be given the best chance of growing into happy and healthy human beings. Nox_Tenebris said: That's fine. I'm not in love with you. If I was, it would be a problem, however. Because what you just described in your last sentence is what I personally view as infatuation and not love. To me, love should be unconditional. Maybe that's idealistic, and certainly it is far from realistic. But the most powerful love you will ever see is from that unconditional love. The kind of love a mother has for her child, for example. Or close siblings. Your type of "love", the one that is conditional on someone still being convenient for you (personality, appearance, or in your life) is the paper to the stone I advocate for. Flimsy and easily torn apart. I think your definition of love is fine, even if I don't think it is actually "unconditional". As long as you are a good person, you deserve respect and to feel safe in your relationship. It is a bit idealistic, but it IS what love is. There's a scene from Bojack Horseman where Todd tells the titular character off that I feel anyone reading this conversation should view. Bojack here attempts to apologize to Todd yet again, before Todd puts his foot down. One's trauma, one's issues, one's sob story can only go so far. One cannot use it to be an asshole to people. One is not entitled to endless pity and sympathy, much less (romantic) love. It is given, not demanded or obligated. |
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Khushal_v said: they produce well animated shows but they are against long running shows. Never forget TPM s2the product was still incredible and enough to make A1 one of my most favourite studio though i agree over cloverwork part |
| Its a mess of a character. This is how she should be at the beginning in the first place, not after 3 seasons. |
| Yeah, ice Kaguya by herself made me kinda annoyed watching the middle part of the movie. Kinda ruined the very good ending of the third season for me to go back to such pointless drama. |
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