| It's high time to give this group a heads up, as I've been very quiet the last few weeks. I've had almost three weeks off starting middle of November and contrary to my old habits spent most of it in the real world and not on anime. A number of things come together including the terrible seasonal lack of light, the feeling I missed out on real life for too long, and some health issues. Unlike in the years ago I don't manage to use anime as escapism mechanism, even to focus on it is hard. There's no reason to worry, and thanks to those of you who do and contacted me in private message. Just like in real life it seems I need a bit of a break from the very intensive anime consumption of the last few years. It's fatigue in general, and anime fatigue in particular. No plan to give anime up though, just to take it slow. Episode 3-16 First of all, thanks everybody for the write-ups, which I read and enjoy. Kimi no Todoke's setting hits fairly close to my home. I've been living in self-created isolation for a very long time, and never questioned the reasons. My recovery is much slower than Sawako's but I certainly can empathize with a lot of her surprise and insights in certain moments. The show is very shoujo, visually, as per story elements, and in the way the first person "now" narrator explains emotions and thought processes. This is really why I love shoujo so much, it's educational TV for somebody like myself. Also a lot of stereotypes are used but not stupidly. The classic "four girl gang" pattern is present (Ayane - mature, Chizuru - impulsive tomboy, Sawako - cute and quiet, Kurumi - popular extrovert dizz). Kazehaya is a Prince in shiny armor, but it feels natural. Character development is what the show is all about, and everybody gets their fair share of it, the four main girls as well as the two main boys. This is all carried out in a dignified pacing, another big pro. The show knows where it's headed, seems to have the confidence to eventually get there without being canceled, and takes it's time for the extra small moments. Very nice. There's a narrative structure of mini-arcs, corresponding to the stages of Sawako's development. First she graduates from social outcast to person. Next she grows into a group of friends, except for Kazehaya kind of outcasts themselves (Ayane ~ slutty, Chizuru ~ Dragon eyed petty criminal, Ryuu ~ another silent one). Next the group has to deal with social pressure (rumors) bolstering their bonds. Kurumi then competes with MC over the Prince, involuntarily forcing Sawako to come clear with her feelings for Kazehaya. It's a little ironic how her actions kickstarted actual romance. Dealing with rivals / getting what you want against resistance is advanced teaching material, that's where I too often end up in a Kurumi position. Overall, one of the best "realistic" shoujo romance shows I've seen so far. The interesting insight for me is that of the high rated similar anime (on anidb), I don't even have most on PTW leave alone watched. The only exception is KareKano here, Toradora! seems to be too different already. So up with Lovely★Complex (2007), Ore Monogatari!! (2015) and a few others who seem to be cut from the same cloth. At the other end of the spectrum the show reminds me of slow moving ensemble Sol/drama such as Hachimitsu to Clover (2005), with a similar pacing and focus on character development. I'm really glad I found a new sub-genre I like. PS: Given the positive comments in this thread, shouldn't we just move on with Kimi ni Todoke 2nd Season (2011). Anybody opposed to that? PPS: @whiteflame55 your last posting covers episode 17. Episode 16 ("Night Talk") is a recap and may not be contained in your media source. |
inimDec 10, 2022 2:08 PM
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inim said: PS: Given the positive comments in this thread, we should moveon with Kimi ni Todoke 2nd Season (2011). Anybody opposed to that? PPS: @whiteflame55 your last posting covers episode 17. Episode 16 ("Night Talk") is a recap and may not be contained in your media source. Appreciate all the holistic analysis, and glad to have you back! I figured you were taking a break and I respect that. I’ve had those times myself and many of the same problems. Yes, yes, 100X yes to going directly into S2. This series has warranted finishing it out entirely and the length is a bonus. And thanks for the heads up. I’m watching on Hulu and I guess they just left the recap episode out. I’ve modified the post to reflect that. |
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cipheron said: @Whiteflame55 Heh, i definitely got the wrong end of the stick there, I guess I was under-estmiating the writer a little, and figured they were going for a more disjointed set of arcs instead of a storyline that wove through. I'm glad I was wrong as the story is more interesting than what I thought they were going to do with it. Sadly I did watch this back when it was new, but had clearly forgotten a bunch of it. Honestly, I initially thought you were right. The girl in that episode looked like a ringleader of sorts. Surprised I called it after that point. |
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| @inim good to hear from you and hear you've had a fruitful time on vacation. I had a similar feeling with regard to missing out on 'real life' after my first operation a few years ago. I ended up reading some of the old Stoic philosophy works and found they apply to modern life as well as they did ancient times; learning to be grateful for what i have, fear of missing out, jealous of others happy lives, inability to deal with irrational/bad actors in life that impact my happiness. There's a youtube guy called Daily Stoic that has some videos I found really helpful. You've told me of the merits of Honey & Clover before and after watching this show and knowing they are regarded similarly, I've added Honey & Clover to my ptw list. I haven't watched many shoujo romance (compared to the tons of shounen/seinen romance I've seen), but nearly every one I have seen I've really enjoyed, Maid-sama being the only exception so far. Lovely Complex is also on my ptw list and maybe a future group watch pick if we fancy another shoujo romance. I assumed we were going to watch S2 straight after like we did for Fruits Basket, so yes count me in. Episode 16. We get a recap from the drunk old men that Pin sensei claimed to have seen dancing around in his flat after drinking too much sake (off topic, but we're experiencing a cold snap here in the UK atm so I treated myself to some warm sake night before last, man was it good). I've found that great shows make even the recap episodes fun. That recap reinforced just how much I love this show. I'd say it's sitting between a 9 or 10/10 for me currently. I love the character design (including way it switches between shoujo and chibi style), OST, animation (including floaty bubble effect and soft pastel colour palette), character growth, interpersonal interactions, comedy and the first person perspective from Sawako, giving us an insight into this peculiarly wonderful girl is the icing on the cake. |
23feanorDec 11, 2022 2:52 AM
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| Episode 16 Found it elsewhere. Not too much to say on the recap, though it's a nice bridge between episodes and, given that it's done from the perspective of what we assumed must be imaginary little men who clearly end up sickening Arai, it's got a nice little twist to it while covering all the bases. 23feanor said: That recap reinforced just how much I love this show. I'd say it's sitting between a 9 or 10/10 for me currently. I love the character design (including way it switches between shoujo and chibi style), OST, animation (including floaty bubble effect and soft pastel colour palette), character growth, interpersonal interactions, comedy and the first person perspective from Sawako, giving us an insight into this peculiarly wonderful girl is the icing on the cake. Assuming that the show continues to impress as much as it has, I'd be putting it around a 9 myself, so I'm right there with you. It's really excellent. Surprised it isn't rated higher based on what we've seen so far, though that could be due to something that we haven't seen yet. |
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| Episode 17 A light hearted and character development episode in three acts, all played for comedy. First, Ayane and Chizuru visit Sawako at home and meet her parents. Ayane's many earrings and Chizuru's eyes and height scare daddy, but Ara-Ara mom is more open than him. It turns out the two from the start brought 5 pieces of cake, and by this counted in the parents paying the required respect. When they even wash dishes, both parents embrace them as good and nice girls. Thank you conservative Japan for that. The next anecdote is centered around comic relief Pin-sensei. He thinks was cursed by Sawako when he really just catched a cold after the drinking in episode 16. He calls the gang and they find him both sick and living in a messy apartment. So they treat him, and while at it clean the room. Another thank you conservative Japan for that example of how to treat your sensei. And finally, when they leave Pin in the evening, Kazehaya decides to walk Sawako home. Pin whispers some secret "instructions" into Kazehaya's ear, how to deal with girls. Later this prank is triggered when Sawako closes her eyes and Kazehaya interprets this as invitation to kiss her. This doesn't come to pass, but I guess officially opens the romance arc. Overall, conservative and polite Japanese values played for comedy. Of course this is part of character development for everybody. I'm not really sure who wants this kind of "virtue posing", but not me. I'd rather call it a filler episode. |
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| Episode 18 A new arc ups the level of emotional and social challenge for Sawako: romantic love. Suddenly everybody has a love interest, or as she explains it herself now she can see it because she herself is in love with Kazehaya. Ayane just broke up with her guy. The really tricky one is Chizuru and Ryuu, though. He loves her, but she loves his older brother. And to make things really complicated she's his childhood friend and so close everybody else thinks they are a perfect couple. Ryuu tries to confess to Chizuru, but doesn't get the chance. Drama in the making. For Sawako the situation is delicate and new. Both Ryuu and Chizuru trusted her with the name of their love interest, and so she knows about the triangle and Chizuru's merely sisterly feelings. She's pushed into a new role where she has to make decisions about the emotions of others, just when she gained basic control of her own. Will her social inexperience and lack of skills further the pending drama? Overall, the show after a recap and a filler sets on to cover the love life of others before S2 then (probably) will go for the end game. Which of course is Sawako's own love interest. Didn't see this detour coming, but look forward to the show. And while I'll probably never get into a similar position, will take notes on how our emotionally stunted Cinderella deals with it. |
inimDec 12, 2022 7:42 AM
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| Episode 17. A slower paced episode, not going to add anything to your reviews. The near kiss was funny. This episode feels like a break for Sawako to take stock of her new life situation. Interestingly she does say to Ayane that dating Kazehaya would be out of the question for her at the moment as it would be too overwhelming. So I'm guessing the resolution of their romance and kiss will come in S2. |
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| Episode 18 I'm impressed with how this series even utilizes characters that it barely spends any time with. At one point, one of the boys (Jo) professes his love to a girl who doesn't even know him. It's a small showcase of the concerns of so many of our characters: that their feelings won't be reciprocated, and that presenting them will be a form of social suicide. This is the kind of "show, don't tell" that I appreciate greatly from series like this. There's definitely a shift in focus in this episode, with much more interest from Sawako in how others feel (rather than mainly focusing on how she feels, which has largely been the focus of previous arcs), and a shift away from her to Y&Y and their relationships (i.e. Yano's college boyfriend and Yoshida's brother-sister-esque bond with Ryuu). The latter is particularly interesting (the former ends with physical violence when Yano breaks it off... asshole), since this is the first time aside from Ryuu's confession to Sawako about Yoshida that things seem to be shifting from a comfortable, almost familial relationship to something else, perhaps along the romantic angle. At first, Ryuu still seems comfortable, but Yoshida (though she seems unaware of why) appears to be a little less comfortable around him. This dynamic largely plays out with them separated through much of the episode. Yoshida buys Ryuu a gift for his birthday, spending more than she intended, and shows interest in changing up her clothing a bit to something more risque. When prompted, she tells Sawako that she's had a long-standing crush, which Sawako interprets as being Ryuu (she's proven wrong - it's his older brother). She fears that this boy doesn't yet see her as a woman but rather as a little sister, hence she hasn't pushed the issue yet, though she plans to do so at some point. So, Sawako sees someone who has been playing the long game with a crush, someone who is willing to confide in her, and simultaneously knows that Ryuu's feelings are unrequited, at least for now. With Ryuu's brother coming home in the near future, this may very well come to a head soon enough - we don't know how he sees Yoshida, but my bet is that he doesn't have any romantic feelings for her. Yoshida also lets slip in front of Ryuu and Kazehaya that she has an interest in Ryuu's brother, Toru, seeing her in a miniskirt, so the cat's out of the bag. Ryuu resolves to tell her about his feelings anyway, evoking a similar mentality to the one Kurumi presented at the end of her arc. The episode ends with Ryuu trying to talk to her, but getting rejected before he can as she tries to hide his gift. |
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| Episode 18. As @filifjonkan said you guys have already covered most of the main points from this episode well. One thing I've wondered, is the confession to a random girl/boy a Japanese thing, or an anime invention? I always find it blindingly stupid that characters are shocked when they confess to someone who they don't know (apart from afar), so basically a stranger, have little in common and no rapport, I mean what did you expect? I'm guessing it's an anime thing, still a really dumb one. This tactic only works for very good looking people who can ask out a random stranger in school and expect a favourable response, ie Kazehaya or Kurumi in this show. Now being worried about asking out someone who you do have some connection with, but are worried about how strong their feelings for you are, and are they friendly or romantic, is much more on the nose than confessing to a stranger, well imho. I like this shift to focus on those around Sawako and their relationships, now that she's better equipped to notice and process the feelings and relationships of those around her. Yoshida's feelings for an older brother huh, poor Ryuu, although as @whiteflame55 already said I'm also guessing they're not reciprocated (can't imagine a guy at uni dreaming of his little brothers female friend, although not out of the realm of possibility). Funny that Ryuu and Yoshida are both playing the same tactic, the person they like sees them more as a sibling and they want to change that. Just so happens that Yoshida's crush is Ryuu's older brother, and his crush is her. What a pickle. I do admire Ryuu's straight forward nature re his feelings. Poor Ayane, but sounds like she's well rid of that loser. Hope we get a love interest for her as the gal/slutty (perceived sluts I should add) types often don't get much attention in shows, only exception I can think of is My First Girlfriend is a Gal. I think Ryuu's brother, Toru, may have a girlfriend, or fiancee so Ryuu is trying to tell Yoshida how he feels and gently break the news that his brother has someone. Just a feeling. |
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23feanor said: One thing I've wondered, is the confession to a random girl/boy a Japanese thing, or an anime invention? I always find it blindingly stupid that characters are shocked when they confess to someone who they don't know (apart from afar), so basically a stranger, have little in common and no rapport, I mean what did you expect? I'm guessing it's an anime thing, still a really dumb one. I honestly couldn't say. It feels a tropey, though maybe it's more common in other countries than I know. Episode 19 This episode is, again, chiefly about the dynamic between Ryuu and Yoshida. Ryuu felt hurt after overhearing Yoshida's romantic interest in his brother and being kicked out of her room. So, in an effort to resolve the issue, Y&Y and Sawako crash an all boys get-together at Ryuu's place, where Kazehaya just happens to be. This creates an opportunity where Yoshida is ready to listen to Ryuu's confession... just in time for his brother to stroll through the door. Toru immediately gets a lunging huge from Yoshida, having arrived a day early. And yes, then Yoshida learns the truth that @23feanor predicted: Toru has a fiancé, an older and more feminine girl, a clearly devastating blow to Yoshida. And yes, also as many of us predicted, he sees Yoshida as a little sister rather than a romantic possibility. It seems Ryuu's aim in keeping Yoshida away was to avoid her finding out about the engagement for now. The moment that hits me the hardest actually isn't any of the words either of them say or the strong immediate reaction Yoshida displays. It's the camera, that initially follows Yoshida's eyes downward from Katayama's bouncy hair to her frilly blouse, pale pink sweater, and her rose pink knee-length skirt Katayama is wearing, then shifting back over to Yoshida and panning up from her pants and plain, long sleeved shirt. The goal here isn't to emphasize for the audience what the differences are between these two, nor is it any of the other characters, even Katayama. This is where Yoshida's mind is focused. She can't help but focus on the differences between them, the space that separates the woman that Toru loves from the girl that he doesn't (note that my use of the terms "woman" and "girl" are also meant to emphasize the differences she almost certainly sees between them). It's another great example of show, don't tell, that's just heartbreaking. It really doesn't help that Toru cannot read the situation. When Yoshida clarifies that she's not actually family, his response is to chide her for making him sad because he sees her as family. He appears to have very little of Ryuu's insight and sensitivity. Kazehaya shows far more awareness by getting everyone out of there, avoiding any potential issues resulting from the confrontation and the storm of emotions it could have elicited. After they go back to play cards, Yoshida initially doesn't appear to be affected by finding out about all this, but there's a sense that she's avoiding dealing with those emotions. Maybe it's just because she's putting on a brave face, though Sawako sees through it, noting the hesitancy over and rejection of her miniskirt in the early morning, likely after not sleeping at all. Sawako and Yano both wanted so dearly to do something for Yoshida, but both felt powerless. Yoshida heads over to Ryuu's place, feeling like an outsider, even as the pseudo-adopted sister of the family. We take a trip back in time, learning that Toru was kind to her when they were younger, and that she used to scare off his girlfriends by showing off beetles she had captured (not clear that it was malicious, she doesn't even seem to know why she did it). I can't really blame Toru in the end, though, especially given that look into their past together. He met Yoshida so young and watched her grow up - perceiving her as family makes a whole lot more sense than any romantic interest (and is a whole lot less troubling). He may not be aware of Yoshida's feelings, but he seems to genuinely care for her. |
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| Episode 19. It was just a guess that Toru had a girlfriend/fiancee based on the way Ryuu acted when he got the phone call saying his brother was coming back, he looked and sounded apprehensive. I thought maybe Ryuu wanted to confess his feelings before his brother arrived with fiancee in tow, as if he does it afterwards it might come across as pity, plus he likely won't get the same response from Chizu before and after the news about Toru. But he missed his chance and now will likely get a different response from a heart broken Chizu, although lets see how she bounces back. The fact that Chizu didn't cry and let her emotions out made it even more impactful just how upset she was, shell shocked. What got me this episode was Sawako crying for Chizu. She's learning that to have close friends means sharing in their wins and losses, and that it can hurt to watch them be hurt or go through painful experiences, especially if there's nothing you can do to soothe their pain. Sawako is making a lot of valuable observations about people and relationships. I really hope Ayane gets someone too. |
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| Episode 20 A confrontation between Chizu and Ryuu after Toru leaves. She believes Ryuu didn't tell her about the engagement because he pitied her. Ryuu responds poorly, saying that he's relieved that she knows so that she can give up on him. This results in his gift being literally thrown in his face. Of course, she doesn't know that Ryuu has feelings for her, and if she did, she'd see his response as self-serving. Meanwhile, Sawako and Ayane have been sleeping little and agonizing a lot, both over the responses they gave and the absence of others. They confide in Kazehaya, who believes Chizu will be fine because she has them, saying that sometimes, support can come from saying nothing and just being there for their friend. Chizu spends a lot of this episode putting on a brave face, while those closest to her are struggling with the reality that it is just a mask she's wearing for now. The strain on her relationship with Ryuu is obvious, particularly after she runs off to the cafeteria, leaving him holding a rice ball that was clearly meant for her. Ryuu not being one to slink into the background, though, he confronts her. The result is that his bluntness once again clashes with Chizu's feelings, and she storms off in a huff before he can thank her for the gift. This results in a confrontation with Sawako and Ayane where Sawako's inability to hold in her emotions any longer finally leads to Chizu's opening up. Ryuu overhears much of this conversation, including why she was upset with him for making her feel like a fool, even though that wasn't his aim. She does still feel bad for taking out her frustrations on him. Sawako and Ayane greet this venting happily as an opportunity to work through her frustrations with their support and validation. It's a sweet moment, though I definitely laughed when she said "I shouldn't have given him all that bread!" referring to the bread she dropped during their last confrontation. The episode ends on Ryuu calling Kazehaya and looking at the gift he got from Chizu. I wonder if he didn't overhear that Chizu felt bad about taking out her frustrations on him, and regardless, how he'll respond to what he overheard. |
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| Episode 20. Kazehaya gives Sawako and Ayane some sage advice, if you don't know what to say or do to comfort someone then just be there for them and that in itself can be a huge comfort. These later episodes have toned down the intense emotional pull I was getting from watching Sawako grow and learn, but they are giving her a great opportunity to be a part of other peoples lives and I don't mind the slower, more sedate feeling with the focus on Chizu/Ryuu. I wondered whether Ryuu resented Toru a little bit for easily capturing Chizu's affections and may have been secretly hoping for this outcome (ie that Toru would get married so Chizu would have to move on) and this came out in his conversations with Chizu. If he bit the bullet and explained his own feelings for Chizu I think she's understand his stance, as she had her own unrequited love for someone that saw her as a sibling. What I got from the moment when Chizu breaks down is that she has strong feelings for Ryuu, maybe brotherly, but he's not her brother. Cardcaptor Sakura is the best example of breaking down the difference between feelings for a family member and romantic interest in the discussion between Sakura and Yukito where he carefully explains what traits are similar and different in both. I think the same kind of situation applies here, whenever you have very strong feelings and bonds with someone (who isn't family) they can always turn romantic at any time. And in these cases the confession of love from one party can spark something unforeseen in the other person, this is from my own experience I have to admit (ie not from an anime I can recollect and what I mean is that someones feelings can change very suddenly if there is already a solid friendship/bond and can turn from friendly/brotherly to romantic if instigated by one or other of the parties involved), but think we'll see Chizu change once she learns how Ryuu feels about her. When she pictures herself with Ryuu she'll be embarrassed and find the notion appealing and before you know she's head over heels for him. I do enjoy a good secondary romance and this one between Chizu and Ryuu takes the focus off Sawako and Kazehaya at just the right moment. If the show had continued at the same frantic emotional pace focused mainly on Sawako and Kazehaya, I don't think I'd have been able to cope, it was so exhilarating it was bordering on overloading me with warm fuzzy feelings each episode. |
23feanorDec 15, 2022 4:46 AM
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filifjonkan said: That's probably https://myanimelist.net/anime/10152/Kimi_ni_Todoke_2nd_Season__KataomoiAlso, a question for you guys; there is a special episode (I don’t know if it is a recap) after S01, do you have it as well? It aired in the first slot of S2 exactly a week before episode 1, so it's safe to assume to serve as episode 0 / recap of S1. The twist is that they have it cut for another point of view character, Kurumi. So I expect known footage with different narrator voice over and perspective. I, for one, will watch this recap / special. |
inimDec 15, 2022 3:35 AM
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| @filifjonkan @inim I'm definitely good to watch the recap/special. A change in perspective for this series, particularly to Kurumi, could be a very insightful way to manage a recap. Episode 21 We begin this episode with our main trio talking about how Ryuu's involvement in the previous episodes may have been for the best, given that without him, Chizu would have kept her feelings bottled up. What happens next feels like it's pulled directly from a romcom: Chizu says that she wished she had gotten to talk to Toru one more time before he left, joking that she would have told him she liked him, only for him to show up at that very moment, asking her to come with him alone. Despite the cold, Chizu is apparently in a miniskirt, so it's the kind of meeting that she wanted to have with him before (though it only reminds him of her younger days, the opposite of the intended effect). Ryuu shows up just after this, sees them together, and smiles just a bit, though it's unclear what he's thinking. Toru emphasizes the age difference, while Chizu downplays it. There's also a tension between this experience and past ones: they walk rather than drive, leaving no distractions, but he also buys her buns as he did when she was younger, doing so in a way that shows how well he knows her. He does clarify that he sees Chizu differently now, but it's more in the way that one can't help but be surprised by how much someone they've known since early childhood has grown than it is recognition of her being more adult now. The conversation drifts to Ryuu and Chizu's relationship, with Toru talking up his brother a bit. And finally, we get down to it: Chizu asks why Toru wants to get married, and he clarifies that he found the one, just as Chizu felt she had found the one in Toru. Toru also reveals why he nicknamed her "Chii" - because just saying the word forms his mouth into a smile. And this is what leads Chizu to tell him she likes him. It's notable that he responds with a different form of "like," though it doesn't come across in the subtitles. She says "好き。/Suki", which is close to a confession of love, whereas his response (I tried searching for the specific words he used, but can't find them) is more akin to affection for a sibling. It's not the response she wanted, but she seems satisfied, congratulating him on his engagement and accepting their relationship as it is. Toru runs into Ryuu when he gets back, and the former clearly knows of the latter's affections for Chizu, and wishes him the best. The episode culminates with Ryuu finding Chizu at the docks, clearly aware of her connection to the place. They clear the air. Turns out, he orchestrated the run-in between Toru and Chizu as an opportunity to give her closure and to not disrupt it this time around. He acknowledges her feelings for Toru, taking care to simply recognize those feelings this time, and Chizu asks that he console her, just as the first snowfall arrives. It's a beautiful moment. To @23feanor's point, I think branching out to the secondary romance of Chizu and Ryuu is a great way to expand the story, and I think what makes this work is that it's such a distinct relationship. These are two people who understand their feelings well, and yet it's because they understand those feelings that their relationship (at least up to this point) seems so tragic. Getting to see how they develop after this point, with Ryuu being there for such a vulnerable moment from Chizu, is something to which I most definitely look forward. |
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| I'm also happy to watch the S1 summary between S1 and S2. I wrongly assumed it was a summary to S2. Episode 21. I'm really glad we got this perspective from Toru's POV. I had wondered about possible friction between Toru and Ryuu, but seems they both knew how the other felt (Ryuu knew that Toru only saw Chizu as a sibling and had romantic interest elsewhere, Toru knew about Ryuu's feelings and Chizu's to some degree and was rooting for his brother but didn't know quite what to do and didn't want to hurt Chizu who he views as something of a little sister). whiteflame55 said: I think branching out to the secondary romance of Chizu and Ryuu is a great way to expand the story, and I think what makes this work is that it's such a distinct relationship. These are two people who understand their feelings well, and yet it's because they understand those feelings that their relationship (at least up to this point) seems so tragic. Getting to see how they develop after this point, with Ryuu being there for such a vulnerable moment from Chizu, is something to which I most definitely look forward. I think you hit the nail on the head here. @whiteflame55 you're right, the moment when Toru shows up when his name is spoken is like something out of a Hallmark rom-com, and an aspect this show has avoided so far, to it's benefit I've thought. Watching Chizu talk to Toru made me appreciate how many parallels there are with Yukito x Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura, only difference being the ages of the characters. Toru is Chizu's first crush/infatuation that has developed into a first love, but it has always been only one sided and Chizu was the only one who didn't notice (she knew he had girlfriends, did she think he'd wait for her and then they'd get married, much like a younger girl). Chizu even says to Ryuu that she saw Toru almost like an idol, still doesn't stop the fact he's getting married from hurting her deeply. Anyways Chizu's Toru crush bubble has now been popped and her and Ryu are back on good terms. What good guys Ryuu and Toru are (or how much they like and respect Chizu). Ryuu for asking Toru to come and Toru for driving a long way (3.5 hours iirc). |
23feanorDec 16, 2022 2:13 AM
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| Episode 22 Things seem to have continued smoothly from last episode, with Ryuu and Chizu closer than ever, albeit not romantically (yet). Chizu does fail her exams, though, and Kazehaya starts planning a Christmas party. It's bittersweet to see Sawako's response to being included as part of the "everyone" who is invited, as she finally feels like she's a part of a large friend/associate group that she has been excluded from for her entire life. It's especially sweet to see Kazehaya go out of his way to invite her, asking that she commit to coming because he desperately wants her there. Even now, though, she feels a distance between them, a sense that anything person she makes for Kazehaya would be perceived as creepy coming from her. Unsurprisingly, her parents also assume that Sawako doesn't have a party to go to, since she has never been invited to one before. A line about how they treasure her presence in their lives leads her not to tell them about her other plans. This is a misunderstanding on her part: they have been exceedingly happy about her growing social circle and would likely welcome such a big event in her life with open arms, but this leads her to cancel her plans with her classmates. This clearly hits Kazehaya hard, even if he doesn't show it much. The misunderstandings worsen when her father discovers a beanie she knitted for Kazehaya and thinks it's a gift for him. More and more in this episode, she's sidelining Kazehaya's feelings to those of her parents, perhaps because she's still keeping Kazehaya at arm's length, as someone beyond even the possibility of giving gifts like that beanie. It's not meant to be a slap in the face to Kazehaya, but rather an extension of the otherness she has felt much of her life and is still trying to get past. So, like earlier in the series, it's her friends and her parents that have to pull her out of this rut. They call her house and try to get her to come out, including putting Kazehaya on the phone. This sets Sawako off, she's suddenly in tears, unable to speak as she wants to go so badly but feels bound to stay home. Her parents give her a cell phone, a clear sign that they're supporting her independence even as they worry for her, and a tacit way of saying "go to that party!" In another moment out of a romcom, she runs through the snow to get there just before the party ends, finding Kazehaya waiting outside even though the party has ended. He gives her a four-leaf clover bangle for her phone, and she enters his phone number as the first one on her phone, fulfilling a promise she made to him much earlier in the series. Then she accidentally gives him the neck warmer (pretty sure that's a scarf) that she thought she couldn't give him earlier, flustered but happy. |
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| @filifjonkan We finish ep 25 of S1 on Tuesday (or I will as think you guys are a day ahead of me). Then we could watch the Summary special on Wednesday and maybe pick up S2 on Boxing Day, Monday after next if that's ok with everyone, as I know I'll be itching to start S2? Episode 22. Hearing Sawako say "I'm allowed to attend" (the xmas party) was very sweet. She is now included when they say 'everyone'. It seems strange to me that friends would meet up on christmas day itself, as that is usually a holiday here in the UK and a time when families get together. Apparently in Japan New Years is the family festive occasion and xmas is more for couples and young people, when they traditionally eat KFC of all things! The interaction between Sawako and her parents isn't really a misunderstanding, but it shows Sawako trying to juggle her new social life with her close knit family at home. She clearly means a lot to her parents, but as @whiteflame55 already mentioned they are thrilled to bits to see her making friends. The call from Y&Y and Kazehaya to Sawako at home was touching, and Sawako makes it just in time to swap gifts and her phone details with Kazehaya. Agree with @filifjonkan this was another episode that had me tearing up. Just realised it was xmas eve that the party took place, oops. |
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| @23feanor I'm good with that schedule. Episode 23 The gift from last episode is apparently a belly warmer. It's the end of the term and we're getting a bit of a retrospective from Sawako as well as some moments that establish or confirm where things stand for her. Kurumi makes a face at her, which Sawako still sees as beautiful (the rival in full swing). Sawako is still having trouble talking to Kazehaya, but they end up having a casual goodbye before they leave, showing that he's no longer so far away from her. She sets up her email address on her new phone with Y&Y, forming new opportunities to make and facilitate connections. We also find out that Sawako has her birthday on New Years Eve, and makes plans with Y&Y for that day. And then some of this starts coming together. The plans could include Kazeyaha, but it's up to Sawako to use her new phone to call and invite him. This is a huge step for her, but she manages it, and he accepts. Success! On New Years Eve, Y&Y come over and give Sawako a makeover, giving her a hairdo that bears some similarity to Kurumi's and makeup. Then, they ditch her at the shrine, leaving her alone to meet up with Kazehaya. Awesome friends, 10/10. Needless to say, he's jazzed about this, despite her worries. So it is that she will celebrate the waning year with Kazehaya in what promises to be a sweet and romantic penultimate episode. |
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| Episode 23. @cipheron the Netflix subs said "belly warmer" in this episode and iirc "stomach warmer" in ep 22. Yes the party was on xmas eve, even more strange for me that they all go into school on xmas day itself (just did google search and Japan has 1-3 January off and not xmas day). Here in the UK kids are already off and get 2 weeks holiday i think, was a while ago for me now. Not much happened this episode, but the main takeaway I got was emphasising the change in Sawako since we first met her. We see her call Kazehaya and ask him out to the shrine, she later wonders is Kazehaya a friend? If not what would she call him? I love the chibi illusions of Sawako we see int his episode like when celebrating Kazehaya agreeing to come to the shrine. Sawako looked so cute once dolled up, almost like an elven princess with raven hair i thought. As @whiteflame55 pointed out Y&Y act like great friends and ditch her to be alone with Kazehaya on the visit and her birthday. I'd already penned this show at a 9/10, but at this point in the show with only 2 eps left I'm trying to reason with myself why this wouldn't be a 10/10, i love everything about it. Even without a confession or kiss this season has some of the best romance I've seen, ever. Kaguya-sama has great romance but completely different vibe and it's more comedy than romance, mostly. Golden Time was good but not as good as this show. |
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| Episode 24 There's something about this series that I love, but haven't mentioned too much: the ways its characters treat each other. Ayane doesn't tell Sawako that they're making her up so that she can score points with Kazehaya or win out over Kurumi. Instead, she intuits Sawako's way of thinking, pointing out how Sawako must have thought of Kurumi and asking her why she suddenly felt that way. Characters in this show, particularly those close to Sawako, don't treat her as emotionally stunted, but rather they see someone who has these feelings, but does not yet fully understand them. It matters for Sawako to understand them herself, not just because it respects her autonomy and capacity to understand herself, but because coming to these conclusions for herself helps her grow in ways that spoon-feeding the answers would not. It also shows how much the writers respect the audience, giving us the space to consider these things along with Sawako. The aesthetics of this episode are also gorgeous. The snow, the haloed lights, the burning bonfire... this is most definitely the prettiest the series has ever looked. It's also notable just how little the chibi look shows up in this one beyond memories - they clearly wanted this episode to look substantially more serious. That doesn't mean that they won't play Cupid, though! It turns out that Y&Y and Ryuu are hiding in the bushes watching things unfold, which is just the greatest. Chizu almost gives them away, but makes clear that Sawako is in Kazehaya's hands for the evening, leading to him finally walking side-by-side with her and talking. Then they prevent their classmate Jo from interfering (he unknowingly refers to Sawako as a "knockout" in this scene, showing how dramatic the makeover looks even to characters who have known her a while). Throughout much of these scenes, we are focused entirely on Sawako's inner voice, including her obsessions with being called a couple by an outside party (so relatable). Both she and we can only guess at Kazehaya's thinking. It's also great to see some of Sawako's previous negative thoughts being turned into something positive. During the Kurumi arc, she had noted that Kurumi had grown up with Kazehaya and had seen a lot of his "firsts," making her a much more obvious love interest. Now, she's experiencing some of those firsts for herself (some of which she wasn't even aware of). It doesn't matter how minor they are; they're experiences she and Kazehaya share alone. She also gets an opportunity through a short email (a way for her to communicate her feelings without having to speak them aloud) how much she appreciates what Kazehaya has done for her. Kazehaya discovers that this is her birthday and asks her about her past, discovering that she was a very lonely (if still happy) child. And Kazehaya reveals how his perception of her has changed: he might have previously seen her as enjoying being alone, but now he sees her as finding joy in everything. She speeds through the rest of her life, but from the moment she met Kazehaya, everything slows down because those detailed experiences are etched deeply into her. Even now, she sees a lot of her evolution as being externally caused rather than giving herself some credit, but just the fact that she can give voice to that perception, that she can tell Kazehaya herself how much his influence means to her, is a big difference from early in the series. And so, we lead into the season finale. @23feanor I'm definitely thinking about where I'm going to place this on the 9-10 scale because right now, there's little doubt that it belongs there. It outstrips Fruits Basket in the romance department, which is already saying a lot, and while it's difficult to compare it with Kaguya-sama for the reasons you stated, it's just such a mature and incredibly poignant way to approach the genre. |
whiteflame55Dec 18, 2022 7:53 AM
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whiteflame55 said: Interesting comparisons, and I totally agree on the premise that this is S-tier shoujo material. I've put Fruits Basket Final Season at 10. The reason is that I'm more into the ensemble cast / multiple relations settings, e.g. also in Honey and Clover. Kimi ni Todoke has a strong focus on the main couple, just like fellow adult audience romances KareKano and Emma a Victorian Romance, where the latter is not quite as good. Kimi has "multiple romance" and ensemble neverteless. Before you make the call, consider the elephant in the shoujo room as well: Nana. It has multiple couples and keeps two foci, the relation (or dysfunctional lack of a stable one) for the two Nanas. For me it beats both Kimi ni Todoke and Fruits Basket, while being cut from the same realistic romance cloth. If Zodiac romances count as realistic :)I'm definitely thinking about where I'm going to place this on the 9-10 scale because right now, there's little doubt that it belongs there. It outstrips Fruits Basket in the romance department, which is already saying a lot, and while it's difficult to compare it with Kaguya-sama for the reasons you stated, it's just such a mature and incredibly poignant way to approach the genre. |
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inim said: Interesting comparisons, and I totally agree on the premise that this is S-tier shoujo material. I've put Fruits Basket Final Season at 10. The reason is that I'm more into the ensemble cast / multiple relations settings, e.g. also in Honey and Clover. Kimi ni Todoke has a strong focus on the main couple. Less so than KareKano and similar to Emma a Victorian Romance, where the latter is not quite as good as Kimi. Kimi has "multiple romance" and ensemble neverteless. Before you make the call, consider the elephant in the shoujo room as well: Nana. It has multiple couples and keeps two foci, the relation (or dysfunctional lack of a stable one) for the two Nanas. For me it beats both Kimi ni Todoke and Fruits Basket, while being cut from the same realistic romance cloth. If Zodiac romances count as realistic :) I love Fruits Basket on many levels, though I think what makes it so good is that it manages to balance all of its elements so effectively. I think its romance is still among the best, but there's so much more going on than the romances, and it makes all of them work, taking its time in S1 to build them up and then using S2 and S3 to deliver. I'm finding that Kimi no Todoke is keeping my attention more effectively than Fruits Basket did, but yes, perhaps it is in part the result of that strong focus on the central couple. I definitely want to get to Nana one of these days - I'm always open to the possibility that there is something else out there that will reshape my view, as this series has. Ensemble casts that feel fully fleshed out are a rare breed. |
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whiteflame55 said: There's something about this series that I love, but haven't mentioned too much: the ways its characters treat each other. Ayane doesn't tell Sawako that they're making her up so that she can score points with Kazehaya or win out over Kurumi. Instead, she intuits Sawako's way of thinking, pointing out how Sawako must have thought of Kurumi and asking her why she suddenly felt that way. Characters in this show, particularly those close to Sawako, don't treat her as emotionally stunted, but rather they see someone who has these feelings, but does not yet fully understand them. It matters for Sawako to understand them herself, not just because it respects her autonomy and capacity to understand herself, but because coming to these conclusions for herself helps her grow in ways that spoon-feeding the answers would not. It also shows how much the writers respect the audience, giving us the space to consider these things along with Sawako. The aesthetics of this episode are also gorgeous. The snow, the haloed lights, the burning bonfire... this is most definitely the prettiest the series has ever looked. It's also notable just how little the chibi look shows up in this one beyond memories - they clearly wanted this episode to look substantially more serious. @23feanor I'm definitely thinking about where I'm going to place this on the 9-10 scale because right now, there's little doubt that it belongs there. It outstrips Fruits Basket in the romance department, which is already saying a lot, and while it's difficult to compare it with Kaguya-sama for the reasons you stated, it's just such a mature and incredibly poignant way to approach the genre. I'm going to fanboy a bit here, but that was an exceptional piece of analysis. I sometimes find myself getting too wrapped up in the emotional high from shows like Kimi and find it hard to break down and articulate why they are so good, relying on phrases like "it's wholesome and sweet" way too much. But this explains some of the core underpinning what makes the characters and writing so good. I love that we only get Sawako's inner voice, apart from a few thoughts from Kazehaya (that I remember anyway), so how the rest of the characters view Sawako we discover through their actions, and speech between themselves (mainly for Y&Y). I do appreciate getting these insights (on all our group watches tbh) that I miss, overlook, or can't articulate. What I love about Sawako is that despite being ostracised by her classmates for her appearance since she was little she still has a positive outlook and doesn't resent anyone else for her unfortunate position, just thinking to herself that one day she's love to have friends and be included. She didn't hate the people who didn't want to sit near her, but thought it was a misunderstanding. To have such forbearance and even kindness in the face of such targeted unkind behaviour is truly heart breaking. I was thinking of Hachiman from Oregairu, who is also sidelined by his classmates for having dead unfeeling eyes, and he resents and hates everyone because of it and ends up revelling in his position of loner and outsider. I think I called Sawako 'peculiarly wonderful' in a previous episode and think that's a pretty good description. On Fruits Basket, for me the romance was good, but it was a slow build up and the interpersonal interactions of the whole cast made it such a good show for me. The main romance Tooru-Cat-Rat took ages to get going, although I had no idea which one she would pick until the end. Fruits Basket S3 did hit hard, but that was in large part doe to the 2 season of prior build up. Kimi hit the ground running and has never stopped. If I think about the main differences between Fruits Basket (romance) and Kimi then it's partly the gorgeous animation in Kimi (water colours and pastel palette, chibi and normal char. designs and halo/bubble effect on many scenes, including the 'shoujo twinkle' effect) and OST (soft lounge jazz type music with a French cafe). They combine to give the show that extra something that it's hard to define and the reason, for me anyway, that tips a show from being a 9 to a 10. I gave Kamisama Kiss S1 a 10/10 for the shoujo flavoured romance and honestly think Kimi is better. Kamisama Kiss also had a good OST and strong visuals, which might be why I enjoyed it so much. @inim Honey & Clover has been recently added to my ptw list, Nana has been moved into high priority and KareKano is on my radar for next year. I really enjoy my shoujo romance so need to watch more, although, I do find it more emotionally draining, in a good way, so probably don't want to be watching too much, lol. |
23feanorDec 18, 2022 9:07 AM
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| Episode 19-21 Arc about the love triangle between Chizuru and brothers Ryuu and Tooru. So far we got wholesome, continual personal growth rewarded by social progress for Sawako. This arc touches way more bittersweet topics, such as unrequited love, bursting illusions and the end of childhood, age gap romance, and anger management. In a nutshell, it's the ever popular "childhood friend" trope from the girl's perspective, written with emotional honesty and without happy end. Chizuru (16) pretty much since primary school age has an infatuation for Tooru (24), the neighbor's oldest son. His brother Ryuu (16) is in love with Chizuru too, but as seen last episode doesn't manage to confess to her. Tooru moved to another town a while ago, presumably for studies. When he returns and visits the party of our circle of friends, Chizuru is highly excited. And just as devastated moments later when she learns Tooru is engaged (to a nice girl even) and going to marry next year. The show looks into the situation from multiple angles. To do so it temporarily breaks the narrative pattern of the "me now narrator" Sawako, as she's hardly present in the key scenes. The first perspective is the relation Ryuu and Chizuru, who have a childhood friend, almost sister-brother relation. The focal point is Ryuu's birthday and a present Chizuru wants to give to him. Ryuu is neither very talkative nor very good at diplomacy, and ends up at the receiving end of Chizuru's anger and frustration management over the unrequited love to his brother. He's stoic and patient most of the time, but even he feels the injustice in Chizuru's behavior. Their slow boiling fight escalates in a nightly scene where Chizuru wants to give Ryuu his present, which she was looking forward too for long. She even had massively overspent her budget for that. Ryuu messes it up when he honestly but very undiplomatically tells her that it's a good thing she now can forget Tooru and move on. The second perspective is that of the circle of friends. They notice something is brewing but don't have a good strategy to help Chizuru and Ryuu. Everybody gives their best to distract Chizuru by taking her our to karaoke etc, but her inner conflict and emotional turmoil is not going away. They just can stand by and watch how Chizuru unjustly and coldly ignores Ryuu. The third perspective is that of Tooru, who probably doesn't even understand how deep Chizuru's emotions run. I think that beind the scenes Ryuu pulls some strings and so Tooru picks up Chizuru for a walk and talk. We see a lot of memory lane childhood scenes, where Tooru comes over as the 8 year older watcher he really was. It slowly dawns to Chizuru that she just learnt the difference between infatuation and romantic love, anecdote by anecdote. This is all visually narrated by the notorious "head pat" trope, which Tooru gives her repeatedly in both past and present (much to her silent annoyance). Eventually Chizuru comes to a point of frustrated acceptance of reality. The epilogue has Ryuu and Chizuru sitting at the waterfront. Both of them apologize for their behavior, and Chzuru can't hold back her tears anymore. Ryuu literally offers her a shoulder to cry on. What doesn't happen is a confession, a kiss or anything romantic. The two of them overcome the triangle, but their own relation remains open. Overall, the most serious and bitter sweet arc so far. A very complex emotional situation with lots of change written concisely and credibly. So far the best arc of the show. |
inimDec 18, 2022 10:32 AM
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| Episode 22 Opens what's probably going to be the last arc of S1, and we are of course back to the main couple's slow burning romance. It doubles as Christmas episode. The circle of friends decides to have a party for the singles, which covers most of them currently. Sawako comes between a rock and a hard place when she finds her father very excited about their family Christmas evening. Despite being explicitly and repeatedly invited to the party by Kazehaya himself, she decides to stay with her family. There's a price limit of 800 Yen for presents, so Sawako decides to knit her items, only counting raw material and not her working hours. Small presents for Y&Y and her dad, but a lot of work goes into a bobble hat for Kazehaya. Her dad turns out to be a little self-centered and overeager, considers the hat to be his present, and takes it before she officially gifts it. So his childlike enthusiasm pushed Sawako into a corner. Neither she has a present for Kazehaya, nor she wants to ask for a break to see her friends at the party. She's too polite (hello conservative Japan!) to break daddy's heart. Y&Y call at Sawako's home at Christmas eve, and hand the phone to Kazehaya. Sawako is overwhelmed and breaks into tears, torn apart by the conflict between romantic and family love. The situation is defused by mommy then, who tells her to go and see her friends immediately. Mom and dad talk about how it happened and their girl no longer is a child now. This is visualized as a mobile phone, which her dad gave her as a present. A symbol of independence, used far earlier for that then he probably had hoped for. The party is already over when Sawako arrives at the restaurant, but she finds Kazehaya waiting for her in the snow. At that point it almost hurts how the writing once again kicks the romantic can down the road. Rather than hugging, the two of them decide he will teach her how to use her new phone. At least they exchange numbers. The show is far too good to call this dragging, but it's really about time the two of them get together. Both sent so many signals, just kiss please. Overall, a nice variation of the "coming of age" moment trope many anime have. Like the rest of the show it's played low key, wholesome yet emotionally impactful. The writing continues to be really really good. |
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23feanor said: I'm going to fanboy a bit here, but that was an exceptional piece of analysis. I sometimes find myself getting too wrapped up in the emotional high from shows like Kimi and find it hard to break down and articulate why they are so good, relying on phrases like "it's wholesome and sweet" way too much. But this explains some of the core underpinning what makes the characters and writing so good. I love that we only get Sawako's inner voice, apart from a few thoughts from Kazehaya (that I remember anyway), so how the rest of the characters view Sawako we discover through their actions, and speech between themselves (mainly for Y&Y). I do appreciate getting these insights (on all our group watches tbh) that I miss, overlook, or can't articulate. I'm glad you found my analysis shed some light on your own impressions of the series. There's something about going through a series this way - not binging it, but also not slowing down enough to let it fully leave your mind - that leads me to think differently about it. Usually, that just means that I'm picking apart flaws (nitpicking is an often bad habit of mine, though not always) or noting more things I like in the series on a surface level, but with a series like this, I start to question why I'm liking it so much. For many series, the "why" of it becomes obvious, but for this one, it's in the subtleties that I'm finding the most to enjoy. And yes, I consistently appreciate how much depth all of us go into on these group watches. I learn a lot from these threads - honestly, I'm considering directing friends to them when they pick up some of these series so that they can enjoy reading along as they go through the series. |
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| @whiteflame55 I was thinking about how I view shows I enjoy (how this has changed over time) and was reminded of past contributions from @inim on previous group watches, who first introduced me to the notion of 'show don't tell' (a concept that seems obvious once someone has pointed it out but it hadn't occurred to me), then on Hyouka shot composition, camera angles and non verbal body language with a great example from Liz & Bluebird film, showcasing just what a great episode director can do with these narrative tools (ie in Kimi when Chizu first meets Toru's fiancee and nobody says anything but the camera pans down her own attire and then that of the fiancee showing us what she's thinking without anyone having to say anything). Since then I have become better able to express, or internally analyse, why certain shows give so much enjoyment. But when it comes to interpersonal drama and interactions I often get caught up in the emotions and find it hard to pin down the reasons for my enjoyment. So your analysis last episode was a good learning tool for me. Episode 24. Lovely slow episode watching Sawako and Kazehaya spend new years eve and her birthday together. I'm actually ok with the slow burn romance so far. Ayane said last episode or one before that Sawako just isn't ready for dating yet and i think Kazehaya realises this as well. Doesn't mean they can't take the first steps with some helpful nudges in the right direction from Y&Y. Animation looked lovely this episode with the soft snow falling and Sawako looking like some Japanese princess in that outfit. I do like how Kazehaya is ever thoughtful of Sawako's state of mind and her changing point of view as her life opens up, and he wants to experience that with her. I observed that we only get Sawako's inner thoughts, such as when they are called a couple by the lady doling out amazake, we don't hear or get any clue what Kazehaya thinks, just like Sawako we have to come to our own conclusion. My one worry is that the writer screws the pooch in S2 by dragging the romance on too long, or introducing unnecessary obstacles for Sawako and Kazehaya, which they haven't done so far, much to the shows credit. The fact i like this show and the romance so much despite it being mainly set in school, and despite the slow burn romance, where usually I'll get frustrated nothing has happened (not always re Komi-san, Nagatoro, Uzaki) is a good indication of just what a wonderful production this show has pulled off. |
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| Episode 25 Ah, the season finale. Time to ring in the new year at the shrine! It's here that Sawako is becoming more aware of how Kazehaya sees her, particularly when he reminisces about the smile she gave him at their first meeting. He falls short of expressing his feelings, whether because he doesn't feel ready to provide them or he doesn't want to unload on Sawako who is still coming into her own. We do get small peaks into his mental space during this, though less so than we get from Sawako. She thinks about how she's shifted from wanting to be more like Kazehaya to wanting him to see her as cute, which means she's changed both in her perception of him and in the emotional and psychological distance between them. She even says that she doesn't know how she was only ever able to view him with admiration before, to not recognize her romantic feelings for him. We also get a bit of development between Chizu and Ryuu. Chizu offers to be there for Ryuu if anything happens to him, and Ryuu accepts. Everyone gets a fortune. Kazehaya's is "very auspicious," which appears to translate to very good luck, including luck in love. Meanwhile, Sawako gets an "ominous" fortune, which sounded like it portended something bad, until it clarifies that she's already met her love and she shouldn't hesitate. It's apparently rare and Kazehaya believes it's a sign of good luck. Still, he offers to give his fortune to Sawako as she ties hers to a tree branch. I had to look this up, but here's the breakdown of how this works: Apparently, tying your fortune to a tree is treated as "tying your wish to the life force of the tree”, meaning that you ask the life force of the tree in the shrine or temple to help you make your wish come true. It's not always a tree, but it seems to be most common when you get a fortune that imparts bad luck, whereas people to keep slips that impart good luck, hence Sawako doesn't tie Kazehaya's fortune like she does her own. Interesting custom. Ayane is the only one who goes to the shrine alone (though she's happy to shed Jo beforehand in a pretty hilarious scene where his mother puts him in a headlock). Of all people, Arai rescues her from some other potential suitors, which might indicate something is starting there - she has usually been interested in older boys, though calling Arai more mature might be a stretch. Most of the ending is comfortable moments as our characters walk home in pairs. The OP song plays over the credits as these moments in the snow seem warm and fuzzy. There are some minor comical moments as Jo gets dragged home by his parents and Ayane freaks Arai out over a haunted house. We come full circle with Kazehaya and Sawako standing at the street on which they met. He drops her at home, and they both appreciate the time they spent together and look forward to the new year. Rather than a full confession of love or some out of character intimate scene, we get Kazehaya walking a few steps away, turning back, and having our lead pair stare into each other's eyes for a short bit. Considering how awkward these two have been around each other, this makes the most sense to me as a big moment for them, a tacit confirmation that both know there is something there, even if it can't yet be spoken aloud. Recognizing Kazehaya as more than a friend is enough, it's the start of a shift that Sawako will have to embrace in S2. @23feanor we'll have to see how things build from here in S2, though yes, dragging out the romance too long from this point would be a problem. I know I'd be upset if it takes the full season for Sawako and Kazehaya to be in full relationship mode, especially after this much development. I'm glad I was able to help pin down the reasons you're enjoying this series. I'd provide a big analysis of the season as a whole here, but I really don't have much to add to what I've already said. Series like this often don't tend to work for me since they're full of contrivances, teenage angst, issues with the adults involved, or just impossible turns of coincidence that I can't take seriously. There are a few standouts from that, but usually they involve some form of comedy (e.g. Komi-san, Kaguya-sama), or have so much more going on to draw my interest that the romantic elements are either secondary or enmeshed with a larger plot (e.g. Fruits Basket, Beastars). It's even rarer that I can appreciate just how well developed so many characters are within the story, and how well the romance is built up between those characters. This isn't a fast-moving romance, but it doesn't seem to drag, either. This series has a good sense of pacing and manages to balance its emotional moments with levity in striking ways. I'm also a fan of the art style. This is honestly the kind of show I was hoping to get with Clannad and I was not expecting it at all. Any gripes I have are extremely minor and the series doesn't let me linger on them, finding organic ways to move forward. It's rare for me to say that a new series might join my all-time favorites, but even independent of S2, this has been one of my favorite watches in recent memory. I'm still oscillating between a 9 and a 9.5, though at the moment, I'm leaning toward the latter. I don't think this show has quite shown us its best yet, though it's blazed such a strong trail to it that I have to give it it's due. |
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| Episode 25. I'm not going to add much after following @whiteflame55's detailed review above (thanks for info on tying fortunes to a tree) as I think I've covered pretty much all my reasons for rating this show so highly before. One thing I haven't mentioned is the good VA, Sawako in particular, but also Chizu and Ayane. I also think Kazehaya's mannerisms are well depicted, the way he often covers his face with his fingers and hand in a self conscious manner, something I know I also do. Gratifying end to the season. I think they left it off in a good place with Kazehaya and Sawako having a moment together after the walk home. I think any dramatic confession or a kiss would have felt out of place. Love the ED with the dusky singer. Nice to see Chizu and Ryuu getting closer. I've given Kimi a 10/10 and the reason this show gets a 10 rather than a 9 is hard to explain, but it's the OST, characters, animation, writing, vibe, romance all coming together making the final product more than the sum of its parts. Kimi no Todoke is my new benchmark for romance. I got a very similar feeling with Usagi Drop but that finished all too quickly, maybe if it had been longer it too would have gotten a perfect score, but Usagi Drop may have chimed with me as a new parent, whereas plain school romance is often boring unless it has a quirk (Komi, Nagatoro, Kaguya-sama) or exceptionally written like Kimi with lovely aesthetics (well done studio Production IG). We've got the S2 prequel tomorrow (or today for you guys) and then S2 on Boxing day next Monday. Reading the synopsis there is a new rival for Sawako's affections. Hmmm, not sure the show or the romance between Sawako and Kazehaya need a love rival but the writer hasn't let us down so far, so fingers crossed. Am sure we'll get a good ending for Kazehaya and Sawako but I'm equally interested in how things go for Chizu and Ryuu and hoping Ayane finds someone, although this last one may not make it into S2. Well Kimi no Todoke was a certainly an improvement on Vandread! |
23feanorDec 20, 2022 2:38 AM
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| Episode 0, S2 Not too much to say about this one. It gives us a bit of insight into Kurumi's thinking (though really not as much as I was hoping to see), and it's notable just how much this skips around. She doesn't consider events entirely in chronological order - she focuses first on her attempts to skew events in her favor, shifts to her interactions with Sawako and the growing degree of honesty she's shown toward her rival, and finally to a greater understanding of who Sawako is (even if it's framed negatively, it's something she was desperately lacking during much of their interactions), and finally to her confession of love to Kazehaya. We also get small peeks at where Kurumi is mentally at the end of S1. She hasn't written entries in her diary because she's being true to herself, and she says that her first day (presumably next episode) will be her last stand, suggesting that there will be a big romantic gesture from her to start out the season. It's fine. It doesn't have the innovative feel of the mid-season recap done from the perspective of the little men in Arai's apartment, and despite the reorganization of events, it didn't feel like this did anything to enhance the story or substantially modify our perceptions going into the next season. It's great to see these events play out again and having a pre-season episode like this to do it in isn't bad, it's just not very interesting. |
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| Also, I hope everyone enjoys their holiday! I'll miss the show for the next few days, but it'll make the return all the sweeter. Thanks to everyone who has been going through these shows with me, it's truly made the experience that much greater. |
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| @cipheron that book of Kurumi's (people who have called me Ume) really made me smile and did a bit to endear her to me. I haven't got anything to add about the S2 prequel episode 0, apart from the fact it was a nice window into Kurumi's thinking. She did even say exactly what I was thinking namely "why didn't she ask Kazehaya out much earlier before Sawako arrived on the scene". Basically Kurumi lost out in her romantic endeavours because she didn't take action, it was nothing to do with Sawako and her lack of courage, which she finally remedies when she confesses to Kazehaya thanks to Sawako's prompt. Have a merry christmas all. Kimi no Todoke S1 has been a blast but then so have many other of our group watches (Fruit Basket, Clannad, Excel Saga, Nadia & Secret of Bluewater, Macross Frontier, Casshern Sins, Phantom of a Requiem) so thank you all for your time this past year. We watched some decent shows this year and look forward to even more next year. |
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Kimi ni Todoke 2nd Season (2011), MAL 7.98/10, anidb 7.81/10 |
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| Episode 23-25 Y&Y&R trick Sawako and Kazehaya into a date on New Year, then have fun stalking them. It starts with Y&Y learning Sawako birthday is on New Years Eve, and their present to her is to dress her up like a princess. Then one by one the gang drops out, leaving only Kazehaya-dono and Sawako-hime on their first date, the trip to the shrine. Which of course in and by itself is an anime trope, but it's played well in this show like anything else. On their shrine data a number of small scenes are used to illustrate their slow, steady and mutual bonding. They have a hot alcoholic drink, exchange emails with their phones, and he even mentions wearing her stomach band. Y&Y&R meanwhile make a fairly brazen prank call to the couple, for comic relief. Also comic relief is a classmate trying to flirt with Ayane, but all he gets is his expensive new jacket damaged by sparks from the bonfire. Sawako is given a memory lane segment, where she reviews her childhood joys of playing X alone, with many X. She reflects over the last year and is very happy. In the final act S&K draw fortunes. Sawako of course gets "Bad Luck" but also the hint that her big love is now next to hear from the text. They then walk home, both stopping and remembering the place where they first met in spring when they pass it. There's a lot of very nice visual story telling going on, with a "observer from above" perspective showing all the potential couples walking home together in the snow, silently. It's heavily implied how S&K are in mutual love, but neither has the balls to act on it. Overall, a wildly romantic three episode date arc, allowing for some very dignified and emotional pacing. Taking it's time is one of the big assets of the show, and this is slow even by it's own standards. And that's a nice thing to say. Show don't tell is strong in this arc, and the noisier comedic relive isn't overdone either. A worthy conclusion of a great season, open yet heavily implying the romantic end goal. |
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| Note: Wikipedia counts Kimi ni Todoke: Kataomoi (Kimi ni Todoke: From Me to You - Unrequited Love, 2011), aka episode zero or recap of S1, as episode 26 of the franchise. That means S02E01 is counted as 27, and I'll adopt this numbering to keep things simple. It's not utterly wrong because S02E00 has some story progression regarding Valentine at the end which are picked up in S02E01. Thus it's mostly but not exclusively a recap. Episode 1 / 27 With the begin of the new semester seating is re-shuffled and the circle of friends no longer sits next to each other. Sawako realizes this isn't a problem at all because she now is a card carrying member of the social fabric of the class, as a bt clumsily stated by a classmate in one of the few info dumps the show had so far. The rest of the episode deals with one of those delicate details of the Japanese social signaling system. It's Valentine's Day and both Kurumi (expensive bought chocolate) and Sawako (self-made with extra ingredients) want to impress Kazehaya. It turns out that due to his vast popularity, he introduced a standard for accepting gifted chocolate. He will accept gifts for "giri/gratitude", but reject gifts for "ai/love". Kurmumi succeeds in giving him her's. Sawako wtches it, and Ume explains to her that she was already rejected and so this is a special situation. Sawako for the rest of the episode is torn between giving and not giving her chocolate to Kazehaya. She ends up not doing it, because her decision is to be accepted in the "ai/love" category. Being accepted as "gratitude" is no longer good enough for her ambition. Overall, quite a tempest in the tea pot, but this is Japan. It's still interesting to behold, even if in Western society this situation probably would be a non-issue. |
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| Ah, good to be back, particularly with this anime. @inim, thanks for reorienting us on the numbering system, I think I'll go with the same. And Happy Holidays to everyone, hope you all had a good time celebrating. Episode 27 Nice to start out by seeing a bit of how Sawako cooks. We've been told that the results are wonderful, but seeing her process, even a little, shows how much she cares. It's also notable that, unlike with the previous seat change, Sawako is surrounded by new people now. Others don't have to rally around her because she's not a social pariah any longer. And yeah, the clunky exposition stands apart from the usual show-don't-tell strategy of the show, but it's a minor gripe and doesn't last too long. None of this stops her from feeling the separation that results from the seat change and how far apart she and Kazehaya are physically. She seems to be attributing more of a distinction to it as well, though as a result of the finale of last season, they're emotionally closer than ever. Ah, the sweet agony of giving gifts on Valentine's Day: knowing how much is too much to give, when and how to give them, worrying that it's a good enough gift, etc. All this is on Sawako's mind. Kazehaya, meanwhile, sees that she's giving out chocolates to others (clearly wondering why he hasn't received any) and deals with an avalanche of other offered chocolate, having to walk a careful tightrope as he accepts and rejects these based on the purpose for which they're offered due to his popularity. I won't add to @inim's analysis, as I think he's covered it well. I like both that this episode has these somewhat complex dynamics, but doesn't dwell on them individually for too long. Instead, we see the agony that Sawako puts herself through to decide to give Kazehaya her chocolates, and we contrast that with what has become a much blunter method from Kurumi, where she simply confronts him with the chocolates as a stated last ditch effort. The discussion between Sawako and Kurumi illuminates a lot as well. Kurumi puts a bug into Sawako's mind (it's less subversive than what she normally did before, but similar) regarding whether he would even accept confession chocolates from her or anyone else, with Kurumi being the exception because she already has confessed and been rejected. That line, in particular, where she says "if they're really just the thank-you kind of chocolates, he'd probably accept them... but I hope you don't regret it" with the unspoken addition being "because if they are confessions, he will reject them, and you." It's the Kurumi we've seen multiple times telling half-truths in an effort to get ahead, but being blunter than normal in her efforts to shake Sawako as a romantic rival. She does say in her head as she jogs away that Sawako needs to cross this threshold in order to make anything happen, which is true enough, but this is a pretty cruel way to put her up to the task. Still, makes nothing but sense for Kurumi's character at this stage. This all ends up putting Sawako off of giving the chocolates to Kazehaya, which puts their relationship in a more precarious position. She's acknowledged her feelings to herself, but refuses to make them vulnerable to rejection from the one she loves. She says they are the result of "impure motives" since she couldn't admit to their purpose, which may also be partly true since she's always been honest to a fault. We also get a reminder later in the episode that, though Sawako has endeared herself to her class, there are many outside of her class who still see her as the creepy Sadako, likely something she'll have to contend with this season. |
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| Same, hope you all had a good holiday break. We had a hectic, but enjoyable, first xmas with baby and all her cousins yday. Looking forward to a chill day today. Episode 27. I've missed Sawako and co. I think @inim and @whiteflame55 covered the salient points fine so just going to add a few observations. Valentines in Japan is another tradition, like moving to first name basis, that doesn't really translate to the UK. We have valentines day ofc, but you don't give chocolates to everyone, and there's no obligatory chocolates. From my memory of school days you gave chocolates/card (mostly cards iirc)/roses/cute teddy bears to your girlfriend/boyfriend, or sometimes someone might get adventurous and give a crush something, but not often. I had a memory resurface of buying my first proper girlfriend 7 red roses and a teddy bear on valentines day when I was 12, over a quarter of a century ago now, man I feel old. The main takeaway I get is that Sawako and Kazehaya have moved into a limbo situation, where they are both aware that the other feels something, but they aren't sure about how to move forward. I kind of feel like this is where Kazehaya should be taking the lead, he's given Sawako some time to grow into her new social self, and should be more confident. I do think he was right to go softly on New Years and not try and kiss Sawako or confess directly as it would likely have startled or spooked Sawako, but now the dust has settled he needs to get moving. Luckily for us the second season is only 12 episodes long, so not going to be too long to wait, i hope. Sawako and Kazehaya were both acting like embarrassed teenagers in love for the first time since the show started. Before they were both sure of their thoughts and actions but now they are both all over the place. Kurumi isn't wrong, Sawako needs to figure out how to bridge the divide and be clear with Kazehaya about her feelings. A little naughty of Kurumi as she likely knows that Sawako is probably the only person Kazehaya would accept chocolates with a confession from, but she doesn't tell Sawako that. Finally we see the new character with blonde hair, who from the synopsis is going to play a larger role in the coming episodes and even more so in the manga later on. He doesn't come off a good guy from first impression though. |
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