| Episode Fourteen Dio's Lena's army makes a move, Ringo in trouble, Casshern finding a purpose and perhaps Luna appears......probably not really her......but it could be. At this point I think the three special robots can be summed up as the following. CASSHERN  DIO  LENA  |
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| @23feanor appreciate that. It's still a work in progress, but it's going well. Episode 11 Another episode focused on external perspectives. I think that this series thrives when it focuses on world building and exploring the mentalities of its inhabitants rather than on its main cast, and this episode keeps up that streak. Jin and Gido in particular represent two very different ways of viewing the world around them, and maybe there is something to the claim that Jin's lack of rust results from something intangible about the character. Episode 12 A rather quiet episode that, once again, thrives on worldbuilding. Margo is both a historian and an artist in how he views the world around him, refusing to allow the city in which he resides to just be covered in a layer of sand and instead adding his own coat of paint to add to its many layers. Yet, he knows he won't survive to see it all, and knows that it's doesn't have the same meaning as previous layers, which indicated the various leaders of this city. In the end, all he wants is to be painted the same color that he was painting the city, to be joined with its ruins as yet another layer like the walls themselves. Poignant and tragic. Episode 13 Revelations, and the focus is back on Casshern, this time for the better. Braiking Boss reveals himself, Ouji is revealed as Casshern's, Dio's and Lena's creator, though he considers all of them a failure, and Casshern has a crisis of conscience that leads him to lose control over himself so severely that he stabs himself in the chest with his own hand. We've spent a long time following Ringo and Ouji around, but we're only just getting a basic idea of why. Ringo is not all robot, perhaps a creation of Ouji himself that could not be used as a weapon (hence the child-like appearance and mentality), or the result of some kind of robot-based procreation. Is she growing? Will she age? There's a lot we don't know about her, but she no longer appears tangential to the story. Luna has become a central figure in many of these episodes as well, and yet we know so little about her. There's a lot to process from this one, and I'm still wrapping my head around it. |
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| Episode 14 Ringo is separated from the group and joins the endless stream of pilgrims headed for the city Luna is said to have been seen. Braiking Boss notices that and makes the mysterious remark he'll stay away to avoid decaying faster. Lena and Dio are also near, and Lena orders their army to kill the pilgrims, who are "humans and useless robots" - a clearly social Darwinist and fascist thought. It's made clear one more time that Lena is the driving force but she needs Dio as (male?!) figure head and sock puppet. Casshern meets Lyuze and Braiking Boss and both try to talk him into entering the upcoming fight in the city. He's afraid of his Berserk rage and killing more people, but both others agree that without him more people will be slaugtered. He should embrace his new role as protector of the weak and innocent. He arrives just in time, Ringo and Ouji are cornered by Lena's soldateska, who randomly murder anybody they meet. Lyuze kills a few Dio soldiers herself, reminding us that she's also a warrior and not a damsel in distress. Dio and Casshern now meet face to face, and Dio tells Casshern about his inferiority complex and the need to defeat him to deserve the succession of Braiking Boss. Casshern offers his life voluntarily to if he would stop killing innocents (and as price for his sin), but Dio feels ridiculed and rejects it. He wants a real victory. They fight and Casshern seem to gain a slight edge courtesy of his superior regeneration. Leda intervenes and ends the fight in favor of a tactical retreat of both themselves and their army. Lyuze, Casshern and Friender walk away with arms linked, the shot heavily implies that they have become a romantic couple. Ringo stays back to care for an injured Ouji-sensei. In a cliffhanger scene we see a new female character with long white hair and blue eyes who claims to be Luna, surrounded by a crowd. A number of hints speak for her authenticity: high gloss character design, appearance in the new ED, and of course Chekov. Overall, the main cast feels complete now and a lot of conflicts, both bilateral and inside, are set up. There's a nice new ED, please note the mirror symmetry of different EDs in 1-12, 13, and 14-. This is the 2nd cour officially, let's resolve the conflict and save the rotten world. |
inimJun 26, 2022 2:25 AM
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| Episode 14. As @inim said above, it feels like all the characters have been introduced, the world and story are in place so now for the second half of the show. Dio goes up against Casshern again but is pulled out by Leda when his injury reopens, making the difference between him and Casshern clear, Casshern heals almost instantly and Dio doesn't. Even Braiking Boss isn't sure what Leda is after. Lyuze softens towards Casshern after seeing him stick up for the weak when they're being crushed by Dio's army. Ouji says at the end, even if they do meet Luna, and it's the real Luna, it won't end well for everyone. Finally we see what appears to be Luna, although is it the real Luna? |
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| Episode 15 This episode takes place in surreal landscapes by even the show's standard. There's very little plot progression, more of a "memento mori" and reflection. Also the flashbacks to Luna's assassination finally show the dead body and the hole Casshern punched into her chest. The woman in the cliffhanger of last episode looks exactly like Luna. We hear her still "talking" to Dune while already floating belly up, so death in this show somewhat relative I guess. I weirdly felt reminded of H.P. Lovecrafts immortal quote: "That is not dead which can eternal lie, / And with strange aeons even death may die.". The main scene kicks off with Dune crawling trough a crystallized desert, more dead than alive. Lyuze and Casshern find him in this deplorable condition and said reflective, very slow dialog is conducted. Long story short, Dune can't let go and die because he hasn't put his hands around the one thing he truly wants. Initially we think it's Casshern's throat, but it turns out to be Luna's love. Dune was present in when the assassination took place, he fought Casshern, but no longer recognizes him now. He re-learns it and remembers when they are attacked by tin-can types who call out Casshern's name, briefly regains strength, but of course fails to harm our immortobot. Then Dune dies, in relative dignity. The other segment has Ouji and Ringo, the latter using a scuba helmet. She has problems breathing the Ruin obviously advanced. The landscape has green vegetation and soft wind, which feels unreal after all those apocalyptic scenery. Ouji swears to make Ringo's well-being his only purpose, and Ringo swears to fulfill his (unnamed) dream. She takes of the scuba helmet and frolics a bit, enjoying nature. Nice couple with deep love for each other. The memento mori part is clearly the bad news that Ringo suffers from the Ruin. We also have a scene hinting at Lyuze starting to have symptoms as well. The philosophical question of the week is: does it make one weaker if they want to protect somebody? Answer: not weaker, just mellower. Glad we solved that. Overall, this episode went full art-house and philosophical monologue. I'm the type who really is hypnotized by this, but I can see the shounen brigade yawning in boredom and hear the sound of hard drops. Each their own. |
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| Episode 15. Whelp, I was solo parenting all day yday so fell asleep on my first watch of this episode this morning so had to watch it again, doh. That episode was a piece of art. The variegated colour and texture of the crystalline ground, with it's perfect hardened glass sound effects, the dark red skies and the sakuga when Dune and Casshern fought were sublime. And to top it off a poignant music of soft singing with gentle key changes. Melancholic and bittersweet, hope (finding Luna), despair (Dune's loss of Luna), endurance (Casshern's journey) and joy (Ouji and Ringo) all have a role. |
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| Episode Fifteen Dune is back! We actually saw some greenery where Ringo was. Speaking of her, when she took off her helmet her guardian seemed unsure if she would okay. It leads me to believe she is an unknown entity, one that even he doesn't know everything about. As I said before I'm wondering if she's the kid of one of the three, and this makes me lean more towards that. Luna wise, after this I'm thinking one of the following two. She is Luna and while Casshern didn't kill her, he took something from her and their meeting will be him giving it back or her taking it back. Or she isn't Luna, but a false Luna, though it's currently hard to tell why. This series likes to play on hope and take it away, and a false Luna would be the good version of this. |
JokerVenturaJun 27, 2022 9:15 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode Sixteen Ah so he found her as a baby in the body of a dead robot, so she grows like a human. Braiking Boss and Dio are back, with Dio dealing with the former two strongest robots. Those last line about wishing they could live in peace forever........ lines like that always lead to disaster. |
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 14 This episode really sets the stark differences between Casshern and Dio/Lena, as we see that the latter duo shows little interest in doing anything to help the common robot (focused on amassing strength and removing all potential conflicting forces, e.g. Luna and Casshern, with no concern the loss of life that results), while the former is constantly in conflict with himself and is has sort of defaulted into a role as protector of the weak. The strange thing about that default is that it seems almost built into him: his berserker mode largely only activates when he's under attack, and he seems to focus his attacks on other fighters. That doesn't stop him from hurting the weak because his berserker mode is largely indiscriminate, of course, but his normal, voluntary state is clearly averse to violence unless he thinks it's necessary. Anyway, Dio reveals his true colors by ordering his troops to kill many of the defenseless, rusting robots on their way to see Luna. It's actually a little more telling that he refuses Casshern's offer to end him if he will promise not to attack civilians anymore. That's partially because he wants to fight Casshern, but it also seems borne of a style of rule that takes after Braiking Boss, who is smiling at all this in the background. He intends to rule with power, drawing many to him with promises of ending the Ruin and using that to subjugate the rest. All his "for the greater good" talk from his first meeting with Casshern sounds pretty hollow now. Episode 15 Interestingly, we now get flashbacks that show Luna in full after the previous episode, perhaps because we've already had the full reveal of a live Luna that is not just a flashback to Casshern killing her. Does that verify that the Luna of Episode 14 is the same Luna? Unclear. All of you have already mentioned all the melancholy in this episode. Everyone is responding to the creeping sense of dread (the Ruin or death in other forms) in different ways. Ringo refuses to be tied down by it, taking off a helmet that likely was reducing the rate that the Ruin was affecting her. Lyuze seems like she's trying to ignore it, though the degree to which she is affected is unclear. Then we have Dune, who is back and crawling along a path that evokes stained glass. It's clear that he is on his last legs, with the glass around him crumbling to symbolize his own slow decent. Yet, he continues on, saying that he needs to find the one thing his hands need to grasp. After a brief scuffle with Casshern (who notably holds back during the fight and never goes full berserker), he learns that Luna may still be alive. That thought allows him to stop fighting, both against Casshern and death itself. |
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| Episode 16. Casshern learns from Ouji that he found Ringo in a rusted robots tummy, leading me to think she is some some of hybrid robot/human miracle, maybe a gift from Luna? Two of Braiking Bosses former top soldiers appear and challenge Dio and soundly beat him. Braiking Boss then appears to Dio and tells him that Casshern got stronger because he found something to protect, although this also made him weaker in a way as it becomes a vulnerability. Dio takes this on board and returns to the castle to protect ad save Leda, destroying the Big Guy and Mars warriors, previously the strongest in Braiking Bosses army until the creation of Casshern and Dio. Episode ends with a potential clue leading to Luna. |
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| Episode 16 Backstory time. Ouji-sensei was highly depressive and suicidal after his experiments had failed and left Braiking Boss (unclear if he went or was kicked out). He's auto-agressive and wouldn't have survived long. Then he finds Ringo as a baby, under mysterious circumstances. She's inside the womb of a tin-can type robot, but when Ouji breaks it open there's blood. Ringo is really a baby, so her current form really is the result of natural growth. Also, her open minded and trusted nature seems to be just as natural, she instantly grabs Ouji's fingers and smiles even as a baby. The next backstory is Braiking boss and his two most powerful lieutenants before Casshern, Dio and Lena were created: Mars and Vulcan. Braiking meets Dio and they discuss ruling the world. The Boss hasn't a high opinion about Dio, he says he can't beat Casshern because he can't even protect those near him. And that's because he doesn't feel the need to protect somebody, only the wish to defeat Casshern. I guess in Japanese thinking that qualifies as as dreaded "egoistic wish". Casshern in return has developed emotions like a human, he cares for others and no longer is a mindless killing machine. The dying Vulcan tells Dio about Luna's location: a stone by the sea. Action wise, Dio learns that Vulcan and Mars attack his army. Dio defeats Mars, and Boss defeats Vulcan and leaves him injured for the Ruin to do the rest. We see Lena isn't a bad fighter either when she briefly intervenes. Afterwards Braiking and Dio have the before-mentioned dialog about rulers, protecting others and the nature of emotions and humanity. Ringo and Ouji still are in the area with vegetation and a fresh breeze. Casshern and Lyuze are headed there too, passing an area full of robot remains. Lyuze once more shows signs of the Ruin and plays them down. The four of them meet at a megalith by the sea, and Lyuze states that Luna was here. They discover stairs leading to the ocean and - snap - cliffhanger happens. Overall, this was pretty fast paced a story part despite slow cuts and dialog. Ringo's mystery thickens, and one can almost smell Luna now. I have to assume that Dio is headed to the stone by the sea now as well. Is this already the place for the final showdown? An average episode with Braiking Boss anti-pep-talk to Dio. He feels a bit like a Mephistopheles figure to me. I really wonder why he is only talking to everybody as a mysterious smart ass, while he could try to grab for power himself. Why exactly did he quit his job as emperor of all robots, he looks healthy?! And he obviously is a Casshern fan in the making. But who isn't. |
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| Episode 17. Wait, was that a pregnant Leda we see in the intro, it certainly looked and sounded like her. Is Ringo her estranged child? Story is getting interesting now. So it was Leda we saw pregnant and with kids around her. Obviously this didn't go well and she became bitter and the self obsessed person we see now, determined to be the only perfect being who doesn't ruin. The 3 kids Ringo and co recognise something special about Ringo and give her a special glowing rock. We learnt that Luna was made by a scientist, who must have imbued Luna with almost magical technology giving her the ability to give and restore life to both humans and robots. Nano machines are mentioned by Ouji and that level of tech would certainly keep humans and robots alive almost indefinitely if they are capable of self repair. |
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| Episode Seven Looked like a pregnant Lena in the opening scene, I suspected one of the three could be Ringo's parent in episode thirteen, this pretty much makes me certain it is true and she is Lena's child. They use the term Nano Cell but I think this is a mistake, pretty sure they mean Nano-Machine/Nanobots. I thought so in episode four. (Reminds me of Stargate and Star Trek) I would say the thing I supected Casshern took from Luna was these and that is why he is now near impossible to kill. It would also lead to me to believe Luna might be the real Luna, given enough time the ones left in her could have revived/healed her, though she might not be the same person inside. It'll be interesting to see what twisted Lena so much. |
JokerVenturaJun 29, 2022 9:16 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 17 This episode had a fairy tale feeling about it, the kind where the goodhearted person is visited by three fairies and granted a wish after passing the purity of heart test. Lena starring as the evil (step)mother, Casshern as the Prince (to save damsels in distress), and Ouji as Merlin the knowledgeable wizard. The location is the lab where Luna was created by a long dead scientist, so she is artificial too. But she seems to be wetware and not a robot. In the sci-fi version the Casshern gang meets three robotic children at the rock by the sea, and Ringo friends with them quickly. Back home the three kids meet Lena, who has entered full narcissist mode. She's the most beautiful, smartest, strongest, valuable creature to ever walk the Earth and only she deserves immortality. Bwahahahahahahaha. She starts to torture one of the kids, another escapes and runs to Casshern for help. He fights Lena, is very close to defeat (she's good!) when of all people Dio stops her because it's his kill reason to live. For no apparent reason the villain duo exits with their work unfinished. Bwaaahahahahaha. As nice as the scene was, as much that is a gaping plot hole even by art-house standards. Then for also no reason the three plot devices fairies robokids petrify themselves after gifting a shiny stone to Ringo. Of course without instruction manual, that would be too easy. They only waited 100s of years for the chosen one, so why bother with helping her. Ouj-sensei identifies the relic as a nano cell crystal and leaves for his lab to find out more. Now Casshern officially is the protector of Ringo, he goes full circle and officially has a reason to live. Mazel Tov. Overall, I could rant about lazy writing and plot holes now. Or praise the fairy tale atmosphere. Both is equally true, but the fairy tale wins. Good episode. And yup, good odds that Lena is Ringo's mom. And given Braiking Boss talked about males and females in the experiment, Casshern may be her daddy. Buy the NTR hentai version with Dio as the loser watching them. JokerVentura said: I've watched two German sub versions, the official DVD and an unofficial fan sub (predating the DVD). Both use the word "Nanozelle", nano cell. Sufficiently advance science, let's settle for nano magic.They use the term Nano Cell but I think this is a mistake, pretty sure they mean Nano-Machine/Nanobots. |
inimJun 29, 2022 5:19 PM
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| Episode 16 Ouji gets some much needed characterization to explain how he found Ringo (origins mysterious) and pursued this nomadic life after creating three powerful robots for Braiking Boss. Dio finds himself a challenge in two robots who used to be considered the strongest, loses to them initially, and then dismantles them in a brutal fight. Braiking Boss still doesn't believe he's capable of defeating Casshern. Everyone seems to be headed together for Luna with different reasons for finding her. Episode 17 We have three child robots that are all associated with Luna, who are approached by Lena. It's becoming increasingly clear that Lena has a bad history with children. The fact that she is the sole female among the three robots already hinted at this, but her memories indicate that her role as a mother was quite literal. By this time, though, she despises children and has a beauty complex that she has kept bottled up until now. It comes pouring out with these kids, and she even fights Casshern, nearly defeating him before Dio interrupts (not sure why he goes away afterwards - guess he wants to win on his own merits?). Anyway, the kids petrify themselves to give a nano cell crystal to our intrepid heroes, a crystal that Ouji believes he he can use to stop the Ruin.. which suggests that he knows what is causing the Ruin? That should be a point of contention, but I guess not. As for the petrified kids, we only got one episode to meet them, so no real attachment. Episode 18 Trippy episode. We spent this one in Lyuze's mind. She's conflicted, torn between the promise she feels bound to with her sister Liza to kill Casshern and her growing love for him. She spends this episode shifting back and forth between different realities, including ones where she becomes Casshern's lover and ones where she does keep trying to kill him. Included among those is a combination flash-back to her childhood with a young Liza actively telling her to kill Casshern for her. In each vision, Liza either falls apart or disappears entirely, a remembrance of the effect of the Ruin on her body. Getting a full episode to sit with one character and her thoughts is good, particularly at this point when we've largely been coasting with Lyuze for a while. From this point forward, she has resolved to stay by Casshern, come what may. How that resolve will be challenged, by the Ruin and by their enemies, only time will tell. |
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| Episode Eighteen Revenge vs Love, which matters the most. If that's what Lyuze's mind is like than.....RUN CASSHERN RUN!!!! So if the flashback wasn't just in her mind, I wonder if that means that every human-esq 'robot' started as a child. @23feanor Never realised until you said something. For me I think it's brain autocorrect, because I don't recognise Leda as a name, but I do with Lena. |
JokerVenturaJun 30, 2022 3:38 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Not sure if it's a mistranslation in the English dub, but each of you call Leda 'Lena' in your posts. On the mal page for the show she's called Leda and is so referred to in the English dub, do the subs refer to her as Lena, or is it the curse of autocorrect? Episode 18. We get an introspective into Lyuze and her inner turmoil. A couple of things I find interesting, first that high class robot androids dream, and are aware of that fact, and second that we see they have child forms, therefore I assume they grow into their adult forms, or maybe they're upgraded? Bit of a mish mash of an episode although not quite as out there as the trippy episode in Ergo Proxy. |
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| Episode 18 Another memento mori episode, similar to the one Dune got in episode 15. This time we are in Lyuze's mind while she thinks about revenge, love, and her mortality. Others already raised the interesting questions and points. Do "high class androids" start as kids and grow up? Both Lyuze and her sister seem to have done that. Se's also torn between loving and hating (to the point of killing) Casshern, and ends up with her decision to love him. And what whas that scene were she was making out with the "Hey Baby" caricature of an American? Wtf. ANd of coruse mortality, it hurts her that Casshern will outlife her - a tme straight from Spice and Wolf. Overall well done episode without a lot of character development. And a death flag above Lyuze of the size of a gas giant planet. And of course, we now can add the Romance tag to what is quite an amazing show :) |
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| Episode 19 Much like part 2 of Lyuze's "omg I'm mortal and love Casshern" head cinema, now leaking into the real world. The good news is that Casshern reciprocates her love, this is one of the strangest and tragic romances in anime meanwhile. The scene goes like so. Lyuze loses a coin sized peace of metal from her neck to the ruin. She's starting to die. Her reaction is to go to the "revenge" side and attack Casshern, a bit like Sophitia maybe, feel alive. Casshern trusts in his immortality and not even dodges. This frustrates Lyuze in said Spice and Wolf way (she's Spice). Then Casshern embraces and soothes her. And so on and so forth. I could watch those two mildly confused lovey dovey bot couple for hours. Two minor side stories: The group is attacked by a powerful fembot fighter, Helene. She kicks ass a bit, then falls apart. And Ringo tells a fable she learnt from Ouji about the 9 headed hydra, who has 1 immortal head and 8 re-grow anew. Nice metaphor, thank you Mr. Chekov, see ya soon. Overall, I'd call 18/19 a double episode and 18 is the better half due to it's cool romance. Good show still, please keep going. |
inimJul 1, 2022 11:59 AM
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| Episode Nineteen I'm dying, so kill me! Lyuze gotta enjoy the time she has left, and trying to force Casshern to kill her is kinda selfish. Also Fembot lol, kinda missing the twin cannons though sadly xD |
JokerVenturaJul 1, 2022 9:55 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 19 (ep 18 seems to have copied itself a couple of times, lol). A lot to unpack from this episode. First off a female robot and large tin can type attack Casshern and Lyuze, the female robot telling Lyuze she is pathetic as she can't defend herself. Then we get a beautiful scene (red blood on lilac blue flowers) with Lyuze pleading with Casshern to end her suffering, mostly caused by her burgeoning feelings for him that she finds hard to deal with. Casshern explains that he felt the same way, and wanted his suffering to end, and eventually they bond over this mutual experience of emotion and become a sort-of-couple. Where was Ringo during this scene on the field of blue flowers? |
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| Episode Twenty Robot Jesus Luna has risen from the grave and is healing the masses. Just kidding, she's actually just letting them die, including Dune, oh and telling them they stink.......... of death. Yep she's clearly gone dark and twisted, her and Lena have something in common. |
JokerVenturaJul 1, 2022 2:35 PM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 20. We finally meet Luna and it looks like she's changed, whether due to her death at Casshern's hands or her rebirth I'm not sure. Luna now seems like the blossoming joy of life has gone out of her and see can't see the point in healing when it will only lead to eventual ruin and decay in the end, despite her best efforts, as with flowers, they bloom and then wither. We also find out that Luna used her own energy/life force to heal people/robots in the past staving off the ruin. |
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| Episode 20 Casshern's group arrives at Luna's place, where thousands of robots are waiting in line to be healed. We learn that Luna heals with her blood, which limits capacity and makes herself suffer while helping others. One could interpret he massive change in character (details below) like so. When Casshern killed Luna, there were pools of blood and he was soaked. After this, he became immortal (nano cells, fine) but he also developed emotion and empathy. May it be that we deal with a case of equal exchange here, and Luna lost the traits he won? In minor plot development, Braiking Boss goes to one of his old military strongholds, now a graveyard and meets a watchman there. Leda learns about Luna's location and re-appearance. Overall, a heavily packed episode of good quality.Quite thought provoking. 23feanor said: We finally meet Luna and it looks like she's changed, whether due to her death at Casshern's hands or her rebirth I'm not sure. Luna now seems like the blossoming joy of life has gone out of her and see can't see the point in healing when it will only lead to eventual ruin and decay in the end, despite her best efforts, as with flowers, they bloom and then wither. Let me try to answer those thoughts, which are the central theme of the show. Flowers / Life: There's symbolism used throughout the show, flowers stand for life. We've seen red and blue ones with Luna in flashbacks, also given as gift to Dune. We've seen meadows with wild flowers in Ringo's context, where she freely frolicked. We have seen Luna's ex-servant girl (who lost her mind) in her garden / cemetery. Sometimes we have seen flowers as hair decoration, e.g. in Ringo's as a gift by the three robo-kids with the nano cells. Dune/Luna Romance: Luna's romance with Dune is shown at three stages, and each time flowers play a role. I think it's safe to assume that Dune was one of the chosen bots whom Luna granted the gift of regeneration while she lived, symbolized by giving them a flower. This also happens before the scene where he fails to defend her against Casshern. Dune lost both his love and his immortality that day. The next point in time is at the beginning of episode 20, where Dune and Luna meet again in the present day. I'm undecided if the scene is real or only in Dune's wishful thinking. In any case he is once again given a flower and visibly rejuvenates after that. He resumes service for Luna then. In her service he is seen to bury flowers with signs of withering. Luna repeatedly expresses her disgust about the stench and ugliness of death, and Dune tries to protect her with premature burials. We have an analogue scene with a robot put in a junkyard while still alive but dying. Then finally there's Dune's own death scene. Dune defends Luna from attacking bandits (with a little help by Casshern) and is mortally wounded doing so. Luna looks at him, states he'sbeyond repair, and leaves. Annoyed by this cold behavior the Casshern's people ask questions about rewarding life long service, sacrifice, and love. It seems Luna is no longer aware of those concepts, she lost her humanity (not her ability to heal, though). Raison d'être: There were multiple episodes about an individual's reason to live in the face of inevitable death. Sophita, the bell lady, the city painter. Main characters like Lyuze and Dune had their "memento mori" episodes and both came out with reason and will to keep living. To Luna, "what remains of life" after perfect immortality is no longer achievable has no value. "Beyond repair" to her is as good as dead. But by definition all mortals are beyond repair the day they are born. Luna's nihilism and ignorance for the value of life makes Casshern angry in the cliff hanger, rightfully so. |
inimJul 2, 2022 6:26 AM
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| Episode 21 A very good opening scene: Luna (standing on a field of flowers) talks to Casshern (on barren lifeless ground), with Ringo and Lyuze behind him. She spots a flower with a withering petal and puts on a disgusted look, saying it smells like death. Basically the visual story telling did the job at this point in less than 20 seconds. The group is about to leave when Luna proactively offers them healing and ending their Ruin. Ringo is frightened by this, and Casshern doesn't believe her. Lyuze asks about Dune, Luna claims he rejected her offer. Luna claims death is darkness and those with her gift would "sparkle and enjoy" life. Casshern outright denies this, he is immortal but not happy. She tells him that she wants him as a replacement for Dune in her eternal kingdom. At this point they reject Luna's offer in full and leave. Both Ringo's and Lyuze's condition deteriorates, but both reject Luna's gift as "unnatural". The group travels trough a bizarre city with people who accepted Luna's offer, a mix of circus, Sodom & Gomorrah and madness. The symbol here is a robot committing suicide by falling down a building over and over again, for the fun of it and without any sense. In another nice visual metaphor, Lyuze throws stones at the city's reflection on a lake, temporarily undoing the fleeting image. Casshern confronts Lyuze directly and asks her to live, we get another romantic scene. She rejects eternal life again, saying she rather wants to die like she is than become an immortal caricature like they saw in the city. Next they meet Ouji again, who warns them of Luna's gift as well. It is death he thinks. He tells another old legend about how humans once had reached general immortality and Braiking Boss started to kill them. Luna's gift was death in this world, not life - she allowed the humans to live a natural life which includes death, and only that makes them real beings. He also says Luna has fundamentally changed in her new incarnation. Yet, after seeing a laughing and vital group of healed persons passing by he changes his mind. Now he wants to bring Ringo to Luna, which she still rejects as wrong and unnatural. Ouji accuses Casshern to not know death. At this point Dio and Leda arrive with a strong army. Cassern picks up a half-assed fight with them, and allows them to brutally execute him without properly defending. We get a shot of Casshern lying in a pool of his blood, similar to Luna's death scene. It turns out Robo Jesus isn't Luna, it's Casshern who voluntarily dies for his sins. Enter the cliffhanger, we'll see if he really can die. Overall, very good episode full of visual metaphors and tough discussion if immortality is really worth something, or if it isn't just fake life. |
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| Episode Twenty One So Luna's salvation was actually bringing a natural life back to others in the past. She is now different and actually heals, but no doubt there's some twisted catch. It's a nice twist in the tale, what was believed the begin with is turned on its head. It makes me wonder if letting Dune die was actually a mercy, she didn't want to put him through whatever she's doing now. Casshern lets himself get stomped, to feel the pain of death and his battle mode doesn't activate, no doubt he will heal. |
JokerVenturaJul 3, 2022 1:32 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 21. Interesting opening exchange. It is Luna's blood that gives healing and she says that only the immortal can truly experience the full joys of life, however, in many of the exchanges we've seen in the show so far many robots have said that it was only when they realised they would die and pass away were they fully able to appreciate life (robot lovers in the chapel, painter, singer, bell ringer). So the reborn Luna has different values from her previous reincarnation, now believing that eternal life is desirable, whereas previously she believed that eternal life was against the natural order, and death defines life. Casshern is told he can't understand the pain and suffering of Ouji and the others falling to the ruin as he is immortal and doesn't experience pain and fear like they do. So he gets himself beaten up. |
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| Episode Twenty Two So Luna is giving eternal life but not stopping the ruin. It's pretty much giving eternal life without eternal youth. If she really didn't want to put Dune through that maybe there is a spark of her old self within. Lena's twisted desire for eternal beauty got her played, crazy beat crazy. Casshern heals and it's a battle to the death with Dio, the end is nigh! |
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| Episode 19 This episode gives us two dispensable characters who are able to keep up with Casshern (a rare breed indeed) but who die off rather quickly. Helene manages to survive up until close to the end of the episode, but really, both of them are just emblematic of the struggles our MCs are facing. They're not characters so much as hurdles to clear. Lyuze is struggling with her mortality in this episode with the Ruin coming upon her much more obviously and continues to struggle with both her latent demand for revenge and her much clearer love for Casshern. There's a lot of tragedy in this relationship, though the episode also includes the clearest profession of love between them. Like @inim said, it's a pair with Episode 18, though I appreciated the internal conflict more than the external one. Episode 20 Dune apparently survived his brush with death earlier in the series only to die here with "Luna" (yes, I'm going to put her name in quotes - she's clearly not the same Luna). He's clearly just happy to be able to defend her, though despite having his appearance restored, his body is beyond repair. Before the next episode explains it in full, perhaps "Luna" truly is just so frustrated by her incapacity to repair robots like Dune that she creates distance. Not sure what Braiking Boss is up to just yet, though there's clearly a clash coming between Leda/Dio/their army and "Luna" and the broken robots that surround her. Episode 21 I really liked this episode. We start to peel back what is going on with "Luna" - she actively despises death, spurning anyone and anything that comes close to her and reeks of death, an odd trait for a savior-type character who can (we now are given proof of this) restore a robot and save them from the Ruin. We are also told that the original Luna freed robots by affording them death, meaning that this "Luna" and the original are actually opposites. There's a sense that the original Luna, despite dispensing death, was actively kind and caring to others. This "Luna" is anything but, and the robots she restores (as we see going through a town composed of such denizens) are forever changed by her touch, one even going so far as to throw himself off of a tall building over and over again, apparently immortal. So what we spend this episode doing is grappling with the curse of immortality. Everyone's doing it: Lyuze actively rejects immortality despite wanting desperately to live with Casshern, Ringo rejects immortality via a sense of self-preservation that she herself probably doesn't understand but is all too apparent in the robots who have lost themselves by being saved, Ouji wants to save Ringo's life regardless as the good parent who will do anything for his child (even fight Casshern if he has to). Casshern faces it in a distinctly different way. As someone who is himself immortal already, he's grappling with what that means for his understanding of others who are facing down their mortality every day. He submits to the attacks of the robot army brought by Lena and Dio, but rather than throwing himself to the wolves as he did earlier in the series because he felt he deserved it, this is more an effort to experience what they do. The episode ends with him on the brink of death, though it remains unclear whether he can die. |
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| Episode 22 This episode is pushing ahead the story lines of the four main antagonists: Dio, Leda and Luna, and Braiking Boss. Braiking Boss is unearthing zombie robots buried in the old military installation with the help of it's self-proclaimed guardian. Who just like Boss himself has a diabolic character design with a sharp skin and horns. It's unclear what they are up to, but what they do is to build an army of the dead. Leda is pursuing her three goals: power, immortality and beauty. Or to put it simple in her own words towards Dio: become god. So the humble lady bot visits Luna an about the first thing she does is to slap her and issue orders. Luna is no longer allowed to heal anybody but "chosen ones", picked by Leda. Her full hubris is visible here, because there's no way to enforce her will on an immortal, very powerful being such as Luna. Luna plays with Leda, she complies to all her demands. She still ridicules her when Leda asks for healing and immortality, with a pert: "Oh, so you then must be one of the chosen ones". Another important detail: Luna is aware of her change, that she was bringing natural death last time, and unnatural life this time. Luna gives her blood to Leda, who drinks it, shown in a cut straight from a Dracula movie. Luna is emotionless and snappish all the time, but complies to all orders. The scene again reminds me of fairy tales, where the "evil step sister" comes after the Cinderella and asks the good fairy for the same favors. Each of them is granted and turned around later, I expect no less here. And promptly we see the problem: Luna's healing gave Leda immortality, but didn't stop her decay. Her eye cracks and turns blind, destroying her goal of beauty. In a previous monologue she had called beauty a privilege which must be kept to a small elite to maintain it's value, and beauty was always one of Leda's core drivers. So being tricked by Luna about this detail (fairy tale style) really hurts. Luna was aware of what was coming and gives Leda a second blood donation, noting that each new one will be more painful. The scene ends with Leda moaning in agony. Dio meanwhile oversees Casshern's recovery. Once more makes clear that he lives to fight and defeat Casshern, to whom he feels inferior and playing second fiddle for too long. The process of regeneration is painful for Casshern, and we see him in agony and bleeding. Casshern tells Dio that beyond all rivalry he envies him, as he sees the same life force in him he saw in the bell lady, painter etc. Dio rejects eternal life to live for his goal to defeat Casshern. Who complains that as an immortal, he neither knows the fear of death nor the joy of life. Overall, the villains are moved into position for the final. Luna is established as an Ice Queen of sorts, who knows that her gift of life has a steep price, just like a drug dealer. In a side note, I've upped my rating to 9/10 for now, but it feels unjust towards Ergo Proxy which is currently just an 8/10. In direct comparison, what would you consider fair for both shows? |
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inimJul 3, 2022 12:08 PM
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| Episode Twenty Three & Four Lena wakes up tossed away like rubbish and while going after Luna, get's her meeting with Ringo. Clearly the connection is there, but for some reason not explored, which does kinda bother me. Dio get his 'win' over Casshern and then sends him to Lena, who returns to Dio and the pair no doubt meet their end together. We also see Casshern turn down Luna's offer of being the King, which is taken up by Braiking Boss. Casshern, Lyuze, Ringo, Ohji and Doggo live together growing flowers. Lyuze eventually falls to the ruin, happy she lived her life. Not gonna lie that scene with Ringo and Ohji....... that shit hit hard and was heartbreaking. While we never learned who gave the secret sauce to Lena, the simple fact is Ohji was her father. Casshern takes out Luna's/Brainking Bosses army and takes out the King too, who turns out to be suffering from ruin too. Braiking boss goes down easy..... also on a sidenote, his hat was stupid xD Despite getting stabbed Casshern lets Luna live, and then disappears stating he will return if she forgets about death. Flash Forward and a grown up Ringo is alone with Doggo, living a mortal life. Overall The meaning and message of this show can be encapsulated as, Death gives Life Meaning. Simple but done well and I like it. A High Seven for me. |
JokerVenturaJul 5, 2022 5:04 AM
| “I just spent the last two years thinking that you guys knew more than me about life and I just found out that you guys are just as dumb as me.” “Duh-doy.” “Yeah, duh-doy.” |
| I liked the show at 8/10 level for it's sheer quality. Maybe owed to recent personal circumstances it resonated with me on a thematic level. Despite being slow as molasses I was pretty much at the edge of my seat watching. Does this sound too self-contradictory? So I've decided to take the minority opinion and put it one above Ergo Proxy, most others seem to rank them exactly the other way around. The biggest big pro is the strong mono no aware vibe which I absolutely love in any shape and form because it's so hard to find in any medium. The overall 255 character verdict: Multi-layered reflection on mortality with a strong mono no aware flavor. A philosophically heavy show with magnificent art-house designs, metaphorical yet developing chars, and slow paced dialog supported with strong visual story telling. Hit or miss. (9/10) P.S.Unrelated Fun fact: I recently learnt that Lost in Translation (2003) qualifies as one of the rare Western productions with m-n-a message. Retrospectively: I knew there was something special when I watched it almost 20 years ago, so glad I can name it since I grasped the concept trough anime. |
inimJul 3, 2022 2:10 PM
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| @inim I've still got the last couple of eps to watch but am pretty sure I'll score Casshern a very high 7/10 (7.9), basically same as Simoun but opposite to you I didn't enjoy this as much as Ergo Proxy. With our group watches I often find myself thinking about the story, characters, world during the day when making a cup of tea or going to sleep (ie FruBa, Macross, Darker Than Black, Noein) but haven't had that with Casshern. It makes me think about philosophical and existential questions whilst watching but there's little attachment for me to the story or characters. What I have admired is the atmosphere, visuals and music, one of the best shows at creating a vibe that fits the content of the show (Penguindrum, Utena, Twelve Kingdoms were all comparable at using visuals and music to create a vibe that captures the ethos of a show). On a more personal level, after my 2nd heart op and knowing I'll need more ops every 5-10 years for the rest of my life, has made me infinitely more aware of our fleeting existence in this world and made me want to make the most of what I do have, so I do get the mono no aware/pathos of things concept now more than ever. Episode 22. Leda's plans come to fruition as she forces Luna to grant her eternal life, or so she thinks, what she's given is a poison chalice although I'm not sure exactly what Luna did to Leda. Dio takes Casshern from the castle and explains that his reason for being, and the time he feels most alive is when he's fighting Casshern, and that's his sole purpose in life, nothing more. |
23feanorJul 4, 2022 4:02 AM
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| Episodes 23 & 24. So Dio dies, as well as Leda, after getting as close a confirmation as we're going to get that Leda is Ringo's mother, but who was the father? Interesting that Luna said that she contained death (dealing it out to the robots who came to her in her former incarnation), but when Casshern killed her he released all the death in her and this is what caused the ruin. Now she has an aversion to death and wants only to be around immortal life untarnished by decay or death. I like Casshern saying to Luna those he's met who have known and accepted death blazed like torches with life, in contrast to those with immortal life who have no purpose, soul or drive and seem lifeless in comparison. Last episode was a bit sad with Lyuze and Ouji passing away, but both happy. I agree @inim, I thought this was a pretty decent ending, some parts with Luna and the ruin could have been explained a bit more fully but overall I thought it was ok. Personally i thought the second half and ending was better than the first half. Another thing I thought was exceptional and that was the episode titles, they summed up the mood and content perfectly for both each episode and the show as a whole. Thank you as always @inim @JokerVentura @whiteflame55. I watched 2 eps today so not due to start Phantom till Thursday, although I can see @whiteflame55 has also finished ep 24 now so maybe we could begin Phantom tomorrow? |
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| Episode 22 Mainly focused on getting Dio and Leda to the end of their stories. Leda forces Luna to giver her blood in order to grant her eternal life and (she believes) beauty. This episode is mainly focused on her downfall, as despite all her power, her vanity is her undoing. That quickly falls apart and so does she. Dio saves Casshern so that he can fight him. Braiking Boss is also gathering a following. Episode 23 The penultimate episode is actually one of my favorites because it delivers on a lot of what this series set up. Leda returns to try and kill Luna, but ends up stabbed as her body won't work correctly anymore. In a brief meeting with Ringo that goes on before this, it's strongly implied that Ringo is her daughter (we know that Leda was, at some point, pregnant), though surprisingly little comes form that. There's a scuffle between Dio and Casshern that Dio kind of wins before succumbing to the Ruin. That's not terribly important in and of itself, but unlike the character Casshern met earlier who was obsessed with fighting, Casshern sees Dio in a different light: that his efforts to find meaning through fighting are making the most of what little remains of the embers of his life. He dies with Leda, a woman who was trying to control him but, in the end, can't be apart from him. Casshern takes the lessons he's learned from watching others to heart when he sees Luna again, saying that he will never fight again (doubt that) and refusing the opportunity to be king of this world. Braiking Boss takes it up in his stead, which gives him the opportunity to be set up as a final antagonist of sorts. Episode 24 I'll be honest: I was disappointed by this one. It didn't feel like it delivered on much. Ouji and Lyuze bite it, which are both sad endings for these characters. It's unclear why Friender survives long after this (we even see him survive well into Ringo's later growth - clearly, she's a very different sort, as she didn't rust either). There are some sweet moments with flowers, and all in all, this felt like an epilogue and a fine one at that. I can't say the same for the rest. Casshern decides that now, he's going to fight (so much for his resolve of the last episode), bodying Braiking Boss's hastily acquired army and then the big man himself. It's a last hurdle of sorts, though it's unclear why any of this was necessary or what Braiking Boss's aim was, given that he refused access to immortality and instead gave it to his followers. Maybe he wasn't such a bad guy in the end, but he didn't really serve a purpose in the story. Casshern confronts Luna, tells her that he will return if she forgets death, and disappears. He's committing to be an angel of death for this world, which is fine, it's just not that interesting given that he apparently never appears again and we don't know how Luna changes in the aftermath. Overall, I felt a bit underwhelmed by this series. It had great themes and some of these episodes were incredibly strong. Even those that I didn't like had their moments. But I found myself liking more of the ideas the show presented rather than their executions. I'd put it at a mid-7/10. And yes, @23feanor, I'm good to go with starting Phantom anytime at this stage. |
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