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| I had a lot of issues with how this story unfolded, but I'm satisfied with the closure. Good fin. |
| The story overall is good. But lacking quite a bit. It got good animation early on and then drops, the story went the other way around, getting better as it goes. I lost my interest since ep23. The ending is also quite... Average. But overall... Quite a good show, worthy to be watched for sure. Sieg in particular seems better late than in the early episodes too. I still can't really take Astolfo's behavior. |
| Life isn't as fun and easy as anime. Watch anime to bring that fun!! |
| That was extremely rough around the edges, but I'm glad it worked out at the end, for what it's worth. It felt as if the first quarter of the series was seeped in explanations and introductions, attempting to get viewers up to speed on the series, its rules, and its characters through really stilted conversations, of which were very much directed towards the viewers rather than each other. To try and make these conversations more interesting, perhaps it would have been better to have these rules and relationships explained through actions instead, where they're demonstrated rather than just spoken. Additionally, there were already a number of characters written off and forgotten rather quickly, with Red faction's masters getting the worst of it. I wonder if having a longer series could have compensated for the minimum 28 characters needed to pull off this 7 vs. 7 war. The second half definitely felt a bit better, but I'm still uncertain about the series overall. I think my sentiments can be summed up to my thoughts on Sieg: he's a homunculus who was born within the time frame of the war, however many weeks that might have been. Suddenly, he's told to figure out his purpose in life and choose whether he wants to fight or not before ever receiving his name. Heck, he knew about Siegfried's legend before knowing about eating food. Granted, it might have been a side effect of receiving Siegfried's Core, but the order of information here is really awkward to behold. From there, he's quickly thrusted into the front lines and becomes one of the central characters of the show. I think he had a moment of respite with the old man at the beginning, then when he went around with Jeanne as decoys, but with just those two moments, it never really felt like there was much time spent really giving him much to his character. Extending this to the rest of the characters, they're driven by personal grudges, ambitions, or the plot, but there wasn't much beyond that. I really wish there was more time spent on the individual characters, if just to get to know them better outside of the war. I suppose with the context of the war, that luxury wasn't available, and there's still extra material outside of Fate/Apocryphia to look up, but alas, the 25 episodes here are what's most immediately available to work with. Oh, and those action scenes. They're giving me Birdy the Mighty flashbacks. Not sure if that's good or not, but they were high energy at least. Lastly, for all my qualms I have with Fate/Apocryphia, it finally gave me Shakespeare animated, so I'm thankful for that.  |
MadaKage said: This is an old topic by now... But I can't for the life of me figure out what happened to Mordred. It's like they just ignored her, and there was no closure at all for her character. Is she even dead? Will we ever know? Rewatch ep 23, her master was going to die, so she died alongside him. |
| I liked all the various references to F/Z throughout the anime but the one in this episode was probably my favorite. |
| okay! just finished this show... Astolfo became this episodes narrator huh... oh okay, Seig turned into a dragon and hid the holy grail from humans... Ruler x Seig where they're together was a happy end? Ruler really fallen in love with Seig... how lucky! 5/5. 8/10. |
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| Usually I'd devote time to typing out several long analytical paragraphs, but I'll just say that I enjoyed it despite its flaws and wasted potential, and that certain characters should have been the focal point rather than others. Rating: 6/10 |
ZeroDragonApr 7, 2018 11:51 PM
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| This anime was average in every way, completely forgettable. Immortality stolen from humanity might be a memorable ending though. So does Apocrypha take place soon after Unlimited Bladeworks or something with Waver being present? Or is this some kind of alternate world? Confusing. |
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gswelcome said: This anime was average in every way, completely forgettable. Immortality stolen from humanity might be a memorable ending though. So does Apocrypha take place soon after Unlimited Bladeworks or something with Waver being present? Or is this some kind of alternate world? Confusing. Alternate world. Apocrypha takes place around the same time that the war in FSN would have happened. Fate/Zero's 4th war never happened in this world either, because the grail was stolen after the third war. Waver participated in Sub-species grail wars so that we can have that forced Iskandar reference at the end. |
Shayon said: gswelcome said: This anime was average in every way, completely forgettable. Immortality stolen from humanity might be a memorable ending though. So does Apocrypha take place soon after Unlimited Bladeworks or something with Waver being present? Or is this some kind of alternate world? Confusing. Alternate world. Apocrypha takes place around the same time that the war in FSN would have happened. Fate/Zero's 4th war never happened in this world either, because the grail was stolen after the third war. Waver participated in Sub-species grail wars so that we can have that forced Iskandar reference at the end. Ah, thx. I can pretend this never happened then and don't have to consider it canon. Fate/Zero and UBW were far superior imo, among my favorites, this was just disappointing. |
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| I can't even write a review for this because I have no idea what happened. Am I supposed to read the source material first? Do I have to know ANYTHING before watching it? Everything was so confusing. I did pay attention, I swear. |
hunternoobx said: I can't even write a review for this because I have no idea what happened. Am I supposed to read the source material first? Do I have to know ANYTHING before watching it? Everything was so confusing. I did pay attention, I swear. You do need to tell people what was confusing exactly so they can answer you. Out of all Fate anime so far, Apocrypha should be on the lesser confusing side, unless this was someone's first Fate anime. Amakusa Shirou had activated the Greater Grail, the Hanging gardens were going to fly all over earth and the grail would separate human souls from their bodies. Think if a human's soul was separated from the body and could now fly about freely, that's what was going to happen in theory. The grail said that Shirou's wish cannot be undone, so Sieg took it to the reverse side of the world, it's a place where there are supernatural beings but no humans, and since humans don't exist there, the grail cannot grant Shirou's wish. Jeanne is a Heroic Spirit, therefore she isn't a human anymore, she attempted to reach the reverse side of the world and finally succeeded after an infinite number of attempts. Astolfo can stick around on earth because his master is still alive and is now a dragon with a ton of magical energy. |
Shayon said: hunternoobx said: I can't even write a review for this because I have no idea what happened. Am I supposed to read the source material first? Do I have to know ANYTHING before watching it? Everything was so confusing. I did pay attention, I swear. You do need to tell people what was confusing exactly so they can answer you. Out of all Fate anime so far, Apocrypha should be on the lesser confusing side, unless this was someone's first Fate anime. Amakusa Shirou had activated the Greater Grail, the Hanging gardens were going to fly all over earth and the grail would separate human souls from their bodies. Think if a human's soul was separated from the body and could now fly about freely, that's what was going to happen in theory. The grail said that Shirou's wish cannot be undone, so Sieg took it to the reverse side of the world, it's a place where there are supernatural beings but no humans, and since humans don't exist there, the grail cannot grant Shirou's wish. Jeanne is a Heroic Spirit, therefore she isn't a human anymore, she attempted to reach the reverse side of the world and finally succeeded after an infinite number of attempts. Astolfo can stick around on earth because his master is still alive and is now a dragon with a ton of magical energy. Thank you for explaining it to me. Was this "reverse side of the world" mentioned beforehand? Just seemed like a HUGE pull-out-of-nowhere solution. At what part was it mentioned that Jeanne was human? I thought she was an Heroic Spirit all along? Also who the heck is Leticia? |
hunternoobx said: Thank you for explaining it to me. Was this "reverse side of the world" mentioned beforehand? Just seemed like a HUGE pull-out-of-nowhere solution. No problem. The novel might've explained the reverse side, but the final volume isn't translated, and it was mentioned in an Apocrypha material book apparently. hunternoobx said: At what part was it mentioned that Jeanne was human? I thought she was an Heroic Spirit all along? Also who the heck is Leticia? I was just saying that to make it clear that even if a Heroic Spirit was originally a human during their life, after death they no longer count as a human, that was unnecessary I suppose. During the entire grail war, Jeanne was possessing an actual human though, Laeticia is the french girl that agreed to being possessed by Jeanne, the grail picked her since the two were very similar physically and spiritually. Jeanne wasn't summoned properly because a Ruler class servant(Amakusa Shirou) was already present, which confused the grail. |
| I have a few questions. - Why was Shirou's wish so fatally bad that they needed to take the grail away? I know they explained it, but I'm hella slow and I don't want to rewind it a couple of times to understand it. - What was Sieg's wish actually? Did they ever mention he was going to turn into a dragon before, I thought he was just going to or something like that if he used all the seals? - How did Jeanne find Sieg, is she just some random ghost wandering around worlds or something more? - Why did Sieg turn into his previous form after seeing Jeanne and where the fuck are they going now? |
Kodomo_R said: - Why was Shirou's wish so fatally bad that they needed to take the grail away? I know they explained it, but I'm hella slow and I don't want to rewind it a couple of times to understand it. Because Apocrypha has to send a message about humanity not being hopeless. But seriously, their reasons just weren't explained well. Jeanne is a christian so it's not difficult to imagine that she would have a problem with something like this (then again, Shirou was a christian aswell) and if Shirou's wish comes true, that would mean death for the physical body, therefore our death as species. Kodomo_R said: - What was Sieg's wish actually? Did they ever mention he was going to turn into a dragon before, I thought he was just going to or something like that if he used all the seals? I don't think he made any wish, he participated in the war so that he can rescue the other homunculi, and that was granted when he made the Yggdmillennia sign the contract. Siegfried had killed the dragon Fafnir, drank and bathed in it's blood when he was alive, this gave him dragon blood. Since Sieg has Siegfried's heart now, he also has dragon blood, but he was being overwhelmed by it, you can see Sieg having nightmares and fighting Fafnir in his dreams multiple times. Kodomo_R said: - How did Jeanne find Sieg, is she just some random ghost wandering around worlds or something more? Heroic spirits exist in a place called the Throne of Heroes, it exists outside the world and outside of time. During a grail war, a copy of a Heroic spirit is created and gets summoned as a servant, with one of the 7 classes (8 classes here I suppose, but you get the point) being a vessel to contain it's power. After a servant dies, the information that it obtained and the experiences it went through goes back to the main body in the Throne. The probability of a Heroic spirit reaching the reverse side is close to zero, but since the Throne is cut off from time, Jeanne had an infinite number of attempts to try. Kodomo_R said: - Why did Sieg turn into his previous form after seeing Jeanne and where the fuck are they going now? My speculation? After reaching the reverse side, Sieg has probably lost his normal body, he is now a soul, therefore he can change his shape to his former self if he wanted. As for where they're going, no idea, that's just something for the viewer to fill in, this is a happy ending where they finally meet again. |
First, thank you for the help, the bit about the Throne of Heroes was especially helpful for clearing things up, second, sorry for not quoting certain points for convenience. It's kind oh a hassle on tablet, plus I'm not used to doing it. So I actually went back and rewatched the scene in the Grail and I kind of understand what the problem was with throwing away the physical form. The Grail says "There is a high risk of humanity discarding their spiritual nature [...] If the desire to cross the unknown disappears, their existence would be bound to that of this planet". So if I understand it correctly some people might just turn into soulless energy without the anchor of the body. I guess this makes sense. About Sieg's wish: He actually says "Now, please grant my wish" to The Grail. So he did make some kind of wish. He also gives a mention of that wish when talking to Astolfo in their final moments together. I just wonder what he might have wished exactly. Maybe it was to speed up the process of turning into a Dragon so he can get on with the task as soon as he can? 😀 |
Kodomo_RMay 10, 2018 8:35 AM
Kodomo_R said: First, thank you for the help, the bit about the Throne of Heroes was especially helpful for clearing things up, second, sorry for not quoting certain points for convenience. It's kind oh a hassle on tablet, plus I'm not used to doing it. So I actually went back and rewatched the scene in the Grail and I kind of understand what the problem was with throwing away the physical form. The Grail says "There is a high risk of humanity discarding their spiritual nature [...] If the desire to cross the unknown disappears, their existence would be bound to that of this planet". So if I understand it correctly some people might just turn into soulless energy without the anchor of the body. I guess this makes sense. About Sieg's wish: He actually says "Now, please grant my wish" to The Grail. So he did make some kind of wish. He also gives a mention of that wish when talking to Astolfo in their final moments together. I just wonder what he might have wished exactly. Maybe it was to speed up the process of turning into a Dragon so he can get on with the task as soon as he can? 😀 No problem. Yeah, that's probably it, nothing else comes to mind that he could've wished for, I guess he hadn't run out of time afterall, even though it seemed like that. Oh I see, that makes sense, I completely forgot about that little talk he has with the grail, guess that's a sign that I should probably stop posting here lel. |
| I still don't understand how Shirou lost that battle. But this Fate series was definitely better than the other ones. It might be because we were exposed to the other ones. |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Pretty good last 5 episodes. Quite the spectacle, and the discussion between Shirou and Joan on salvation was good. I didn't really like Joan of Arc's design (she had short hair, people) and I couldn't stop cringing at the love angle, but otherwise I liked what they did with her character. I would have liked more backstories and motivations of the servants not featured, like Semiramis. As much as I liked seeing menacing Billy Shakespeare strutting around, the question at the end remains, "why is he here?" When I started watching, I expected Mordred to be the star of the show, but it was really the Jeanne d'Arc hour lol I enjoyed the second cour of the show considerably more than the first 12 episodes, perhaps because some essential pruning had been done and the more important themes about human struggle were unfolded. Sieg was kinda, difficult to be anything but neutral about. |
| Oooook, got some questions that need some fucking answers 1. So Waver was the head/instructor lol. (Didn't know until I checked the anime page) BUT wasn't he a participant of the 4th and not the 3rd in which the Grail was stolen. If so, why was he hinting at Iskandar at the end 2. How the heck did Astolfo survive without a Master? 3. WHERE DID SIEG TAKE THE GRAIL |
| An admin's dickhead Soul banned me from MAL t('v't) |
red-tomato said: 1. So Waver was the head/instructor lol. (Didn't know until I checked the anime page) BUT wasn't he a participant of the 4th and not the 3rd in which the Grail was stolen. If so, why was he hinting at Iskandar at the end post #201 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1695745&show=200#msg54090761 red-tomato said: 2. How the heck did Astolfo survive without a Master? 3. WHERE DID SIEG TAKE THE GRAIL Shayon said: The grail said that Shirou's wish cannot be undone, so Sieg took it to the reverse side of the world, it's a place where there are supernatural beings but no humans, and since humans don't exist there, the grail cannot grant Shirou's wish. Jeanne is a Heroic Spirit, therefore she isn't a human anymore, she attempted to reach the reverse side of the world and finally succeeded after an infinite number of attempts. Astolfo can stick around on earth because his master is still alive and is now a dragon with a ton of magical energy. (edit: or possibly because Astolfo wished to be reborn idek) |
Shayon said: thanks for the explanation :)red-tomato said: 1. So Waver was the head/instructor lol. (Didn't know until I checked the anime page) BUT wasn't he a participant of the 4th and not the 3rd in which the Grail was stolen. If so, why was he hinting at Iskandar at the end post #201 https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1695745&show=200#msg54090761 red-tomato said: 2. How the heck did Astolfo survive without a Master? 3. WHERE DID SIEG TAKE THE GRAIL Shayon said: The grail said that Shirou's wish cannot be undone, so Sieg took it to the reverse side of the world, it's a place where there are supernatural beings but no humans, and since humans don't exist there, the grail cannot grant Shirou's wish. Jeanne is a Heroic Spirit, therefore she isn't a human anymore, she attempted to reach the reverse side of the world and finally succeeded after an infinite number of attempts. Astolfo can stick around on earth because his master is still alive and is now a dragon with a ton of magical energy. (edit: or possibly because Astolfo wished to be reborn idek) I happened to read the other replies regarding the reverse side of the world so there's that. (since its Nasuverse I wouldn't want to be spoiled much yet lol) Tho about the pseudo grail wars, what are those? Do those happen in a different VN? |
| An admin's dickhead Soul banned me from MAL t('v't) |
red-tomato said: thanks for the explanation :) I happened to read the other replies regarding the reverse side of the world so there's that. (since its Nasuverse I wouldn't want to be spoiled much yet lol) Tho about the pseudo grail wars, what are those? no problem in Apocrypha's world, after Darnic had stolen Fuyuki's grail in the third war, he wanted to make it more difficult for people track down the grail that he had stolen, so he leaked information about the grail war system to other mages around the world, which resulted in those wars being created these wars are inferior to Fuyuki's war in a lot of ways, for example, being able to only summon 2-5 servants, they can't use their full power like in Fuyuki's version..etc red-tomato said: Do those happen in a different VN? idk, maybe in one of the too many entries in this franchise. in Fate/strange Fake people have copied Fuyuki's grail war and made a weird imitation, but that's technically not the same as the ones that happen in Apocrypha's world |
Klycix said: Seeing Jeanne and Sieg at the end really confused me. Did they meet in the afterlife or did she appear in his thoughts? you just need to read 3 posts above yours |
| So I finally finished it. It was very very meh.... Why was the ruler so weak? She has the power to use command seals on all servants? So she could of stopped anyone. Or just plot armor? The fight between saber and lancer at the end was like a nuclear bomb so how the hell was the flying thing still going unscathed? At the end the lady in the grail said we cannot stop the guys wish so why couldn't they destroy the grail and then it would stop? And what was with the servants in this one. Vlad the impaler a hero? Shakespeare wtf?? Is seigefred even a real person? And why was rider still alive and not disapper aren't they suppose to disappear once they win? Main character was garbage and there should of not been any "love" in it. If anything I would love to see a master wish for a servant to stay in the real world and them be together but this was just lame as hell. |
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Sorakaa said: Why was the ruler so weak? She has the power to use command seals on all servants? So she could of stopped anyone. Or just plot armor? ruler gets two command spells for each servant, the master gets 3 amakusa shirou took the command spells from all the red faction's masters (except Shishigo), in the after-credit scene of ep 5 all shirou needed to do is use 2 command spells on each of the red servants and say "If ruler orders you with a command spell, do not obey it" Sorakaa said: And what was with the servants in this one. Vlad the impaler a hero? he's viewed as a national hero in Romania, and the legends about him being a vampire manifest themselves as noble phantasm that can be activated Sorakaa said: Shakespeare wtf?? heroic spirits in fate and the nasuverse receive power-ups from their legends and what they were known for, Shakespeare can spin tales as illusions and Vlad III can make stakes appear from the ground if you're watching fate for historical accuracy then you're gonna have a bad time, sometimes you can't expect myth/legend accuracy from it either Sorakaa said: Is seigefred even a real person? no idea what you mean here Sorakaa said: And why was rider still alive and not disapper aren't they suppose to disappear once they win? servants disappear because the magical energy supply they receive from the grail to maintain their own form stops, but if there's a master capable of providing for that magical energy + the normal amount that a master has to provide in a grail war, then the servant can remain in the world that's what happened with sieg and astolfo, their contract as master and servant is still intact, and sieg is probably providing magical energy for astolfo, since he's a dragon with a lot of magical energy now Sorakaa said: Main character was garbage agreed, sieg and astolfo are apocrypha's biggest mistakes and this whole thing could've been better without them |
watching this was an Automatic catalyst on getting her! |
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| Astolfo x Leticia. Thought Shirou already make the wish, don't tell me this Holy Grail war is different than other usual Holy Grail war, that there can be 2 wisher. Sieg becoming the very dragon that Siegried slayed. |
| He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame. |
| So just a wrap-up episode after all, seems like it's a happy ending for the protagonists after all. Overall started off good, but then got pretty cringey along the way. Sieg was a pretty bland protagonist and everything revolving around him was kinda boring. 6/10 |
| Astolfo survived and that alone makes me happy Astolfo/10 |
| This anime gets confusing AF remembering Waver exists in this and so does Iskandar? The entire storyline of Fate/Zero?? It could be explained away as slightly different and I don't want to look it up. Edit: Waver participated in the sub-species wars to sail some cameos, got it. Astolfo x Leticia end game, I don't make the rules. I summoned Jeanne in FGO, but it was months after watching this anime lol. Rec for people who want to summon Jeanne months and hundreds of summons later. /s Jeanne x Sieg adds nothing to the story. Sieg isn't necessary. They didn't need Sieg to show the plight of the homunculus, homunculi got sacrificed and that proved the point. So it's like have Vlad be the fat dude's servant, make dragon slayer Siegfried the handsome dude's servant. Conflict and drama as Siegfried tries to get away also can be explained w/ a unique trait besides archer's independence. Siegfried x Jeanne romance and no need for Sieg. Jeanne still faces similar situations without Sieg. Heh. Sieg is like the designated protagonist, but Mordred and others could've carried the series without him. Give Jack clothes and only one episode. Not sure if even 'no Sieg' would make this series better, I only watched it because it was part of the Fateverse. Feels more like an FGO commercial as is. Apocrypha is bad and battle animation quality got worse near final episodes, even manga battles include more scenes. |
Eris-w-Aug 11, 2019 4:00 PM
_Peksi said: Yea right, obviously the reason they muted Sieg's dialogues was 'cus his wish was actually "I want to be a motherfucking dragon" LOL. This is now my headcanon. WeedCatx said: The romance between Block of Wood and Jeanne is too forced and Gordes X Sieg would probably be a better couple than them lol I don't entirely agree, but this comment is funny. :D Maybe Sieg is played by Keanu Reeves. :) Shayon said: Zelev said: What's the difference between the Greater Grail and the other one? Greater Grail collects magical energy over the course of 60 years, chooses masters who want it and helps them summon their servants. Lesser Grail collects the energy of defeated servants within itself, acts as a catalyst to draw out the real holy grail which is in spiritual form. Real Holy Grail = Greater Grail? Or is that a 3rd concept? Shayon said: Heroic spirits exist in a place called the Throne of Heroes, it exists outside the world and outside of time. During a grail war, a copy of a Heroic spirit is created and gets summoned as a servant, with one of the 7 classes (8 classes here I suppose, but you get the point) being a vessel to contain it's power. After a servant dies, the information that it obtained and the experiences it went through goes back to the main body in the Throne. How does this make sense? The Throne exists outside time, but it gets updated periodically? How? When? If the Throne (or the knowledge in it) changes over time, how is it "outside time"? Other question: Sieg/Fafnir carries big globe thing away to the Reverse Side of the World. Is that big globe the Greater Grail? If so, how does this impact future Grail Wars? Can future mages summon Servants and get wishes granted as usual even though Fafnir is lugging the Grail around? Or will their attempts to summon the Grail conflict with Fafnir's attempt to keep hold of it? |
| I definitely enjoyed this anime. Lots of likable characters. I liked Mordred, Shishigou, Astolfo, Fiore, Karna, Vlad... and several others were pretty cool too. I'm glad that Fiore survived. I liked her. I enjoyed this series more than I enjoyed Fate/Zero or the two FSN TV series. I can't exactly argue why I like this better than Fate/Zero. I think it may be largely because F/Z was so hyped, so I came in expecting something amazing, whereas this one gets a lot of hate, so my expectations were lower. Sieg was bland, but not as bad as people say IMO. I liked him better than Emiya Shirou, or Hakuno from Fate/Extra: Last Encore. His romance with Jeanne was not great, but it was nice enough. Ooo! And also, remember that old man whom Sieg lived with for a while? He survived! I was sure he was going to die, and his death would motivate Sieg to go out and do stuff. But he was fine (apparently). Yay! |
| Finally is over! I really really hate the "protagonist trio" (Jeanne, Sieg & Astolfo) + Jack the Ripper and all the stuff around them. Sure there is good stuff that I enjoyed like most of the first half of the anime (specially ep. 10-12) + Mordred/Lion-go + Vlad but those four characters' spotlight were enough to ruin me all the experience (and here one previously believing that Jeanne is a decent character when I first met her in the FGO's 1st Singularity arc). So I'm free! >Fate/Grand Order: Babylonia arc's first episode is released in the moment that I wrote this post Oh d-mn it! Here I go again... |
| I'm so happy Jeanne and Sieg got their happy ending. I really enjoyed this series. |
| damn this anime is very good but Jeanne and Sieg only countered the moral evil of the problem of evil though they did not think about the natural evil at all same with Shiro too lol and Mordred is very cool too Assassin of Black is surely sexy hot though and she is so powerful Achilles actually killed 2 Archers lol but damn his love pairing with Atalanta is tragic |
| Watched this over the course of like a year, so I got lost on the plot details, but at least the action was pretty good and plentiful. Astolfo was easily the best character, sad he gets only associated with trap jokes. |
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