| Of all the things that surround this show, this statement irritates me the most. I mean seriously I think some people here need to really rewatch OreGairu to see the difference, because it seems some here really didn't get the point of Hikigayas character. My point is: That Ayanokoji is not a character like Hikigaya, but rather resembles characters like Kirito or Tatsuya Shiba. I mean it is probably also one of my main problems that I have with this show(other than the overbearing fanservice). Ayanokoji feels for me like a Gary Stue . Someone that can do pretty much everything without struggeling at all and without it having any kind of negative consequences for himself. At no point in the story I felt like there is any character that could pose a threat to Ayanokoji at all. That killed of all the shows tension for me and it got boring. So why is the Hikigaya comparison annoying to no end to me. I mean he was cunning and intelligent too and had this machiavellistic world view aswell that to be sucessful you need to manipulate others. Yet the huge difference is that with Hikigaya all his actions had consequences for himself. Every time he planned something, in the end he tarnished his own reputation with it. He portrayed himself as the bad guy in order for others to solve their problems. Besides that he was a normal guy. He couldn't Martial Arts his way out of every dangerous situation. Nor did he have this secret and mysterious background that a lot of light novel MC's seems to have. Hikigaya was just a normal dude that acceled through his monologues and dialogous. The show did not need to tell us how awesome Hikigaya was all the time, with him in the focus of all the important figures. I belived that he was awesome solely on the way he acted and talked. Ayanokoji's actions have no other consequences for him other than that he avoids being popular, which in the end serves his purpose, because that way he can stay under the radar and detract attention away from himself. If you still think I am wrong at this point just compare everything Ayanokoji did up until this point to the speech Hikigaya had in Season 2 of OreGairu about wanting something "genuine". So seeing all the comparisons between Ayanokoji and Hikigaya or OreGairu and Classroom of the Elite feels like a slap in the face. |
| The 2 series aren't even alike in general dont know why people keep comparing these 2 |
BlackFIFA19 said: Because people dont pay attention to details...loner MC with dead eyes,cutesy looking girl and tsun/kuu cool girl trio,Hayama-like cool dude character in a school setting and BOOM its oregairu...I mean im pretty sure LN author got "inspiration" from oregairu too but... =_=The 2 series aren't even alike in general dont know why people keep comparing these 2 -Hachiman was a normal dude with normal abilities,ayanokouji is an OP MC who hides his true powers -Hachiman had different sides of him depending on who he was he communicating with,he was excited when he talked with totsuka,annoyed with the fat dude,cheeky with iroha, carefree with Komachi,bored in school... While ayanokouji all the time has same expression and persona,the bored dude who is looking down on everything.... -Hachiman always used normal means to solve problems, solutions that everyone can do but choose not to because of consequences...Ayanokouji jsut stomps everything with his OP hidden powers, saves the grills from bullies with cool moves, and if in the future some bigger problem occurs we will get a revealation that he can even use magic or something... -Oregairu is about psychology of people and human relationships, how "normal" people think in normal everyday problems...Classroom of the Elite is....Well not sure what it is about but it certainly is not a realistic setting... |
LoneWizzySep 16, 2017 6:54 AM
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| Except that he's not forcing antagonism. That MC from Chrome Shelled Regios is closer. |
| I agree. The true edgelord can't be beaten by some random newcomer. |
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| Hikigaya is genuinely cynical, and consistently so. For Classroom, this is all just first episode impressions, which I held too, till the anime went on plot tangents that had such a tenuous relation to the introduced conflict that I forgot about what was the source of conflict. Amanokuji does talk about equality, but not much, as it is only for one line in the beginning and the chat with their homeroom teacher. The rest of the episodes concern topics such as public and private personas, dishonesty, reputation, and all that, as reflected in the titles. They do not discuss or add anything to the originally introduced conflict and premise of an Elite School that does away with any notion of "equality". It seems as if the author or whoever just picked random quotes from famous individuals to base episodic plotlines about, rather than focusing on a central theme. Its lack of focus makes any examination completely superficial, and far more of an annoyance on an anime that wants to appear intelligent and engaging. It is the thought of a cynic, but it doesn't last at all. The concept and its poor relation to "equality" are forgotten or put on the backburner, to be brought up at a convenient time. Hikigaya seems to have a personality, and a sense of rationale that determines his actions. Amanokuji simply does not. He neither is in want of or desires to be free of involvement. He just does it. Yet, he is completely without long term or immediate motivation, and personality. He is a complete brick of a character. |
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| I can agree that he's not very similar to 8man. However you said he was more similar to Kirito, which i find completely false. |
My Queens  |
-Mahesvara said: Yeah, i dont think he is similar to Kirito too...Kirito has his expressions and also clearly established understandable motives like "being the very best", "getting out of game", "building x" , "saving y by building x"... I'd say closest character to ayanokouji among the anime i watched is definitely Tatsuya Onii-Sama though...I can agree that he's not very similar to 8man. However you said he was more similar to Kirito, which i find completely false. |
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-Mahesvara said: I can agree that he's not very similar to 8man. However you said he was more similar to Kirito, which i find completely false. Personality wise yeah. I agree that they have nothing in common in that aspect other than both being kinda loners(Kirito was at the start one). But what they share is the fact that are both Gary Stue characters that make all the side characters look useless in comparison and make all the antagonists look cheesy and foolish for even going up against them. |
| they are both edgy, what's the difference |
Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen |
| @LoneWizzy Well yeah I find him to be most similar to Tatsuya since both are rather stoic(especially Ayano), both are clouded with mystery, both are borderline sociopaths, both dislike being in the spotlight and rather work in the shadows, and both are extremely intelligent and have insane hidden skills. @BlueSkylark I think you're using the wrong term. Overpowered would be the correct term. Gary Stu and Overpowered don't really corolate and these two are a good example of that. Gary Stu would imply that these two characters are perfect and have no character flaws, which isn't true. For example, Ayano wouldn't be the social outcast that he is and kirito wouldn't be mentally vulnerable enough to suffer from ptsd if they were actually Gary Stu's. The only true Gary Stu i've ever seen was Sakamoto from Sakamoto-kun. |
-MahesvaraSep 16, 2017 12:48 PM
My Queens |
| I find Kirito's lack of PTSD to be surprising, in comparison to Sinon's, honestly. Witnessing a suicide in that circumstances will fuck most people up for years. However, he does show emotion, and has motivation. Ayanokoji does not even have that. |
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PeripheralVision said: Eh i wouldn't say, just because he doesn't show it, doesn't mean he doesn't. He just might not be able to have strong emotions or the ability to express them, which probably developed from being a lab rat. As for motivations, yes they haven't been made clear, but we should be able to deduce a bit of it based on what he has said and done thus far. Like he already said, he doesn't want to be in the spotlight and just wants to live a normal life, his action support this as he mainly leads the others to the right course of action behind the scenes and when he does take the iniative, he convinces other people to take the credit instead. Plus at the beginning of the current arc, it seems someone is also after him from the outside, with trying to get him expelled and all. So there is obviously more layers to his motivations of attending this school specifically and purposely scoring average on his exams to not grab attention. I personally am eager to know his true motivations and reasoning behind his actions. The mystery around him is rather intriguing to me.Ayanokoji does not even have that. |
My Queens |
-Mahesvara said: PeripheralVision said: Eh i wouldn't say, just because he doesn't show it, doesn't mean he doesn't. He just might not be able to have strong emotions or the ability to express them, which probably developed from being a lab rat. As for motivations, yes they haven't been made clear, but we should be able to deduce a bit of it based on what he has said and done thus far. Like he already said, he doesn't want to be in the spotlight and just wants to live a normal life, his action support this as he mainly leads the others to the right course of action behind the scenes and when he does take the iniative, he convinces other people to take the credit instead. Plus at the beginning of the current arc, it seems someone is also after him from the outside, with trying to get him expelled and all. So there is obviously more layers to his motivations of attending this school specifically and purposely scoring average on his exams to not grab attention. I personally am eager to know his true motivations and reasoning behind his actions. The mystery around him is rather intriguing to me.Ayanokoji does not even have that. I meant motivation, which brings me to another egregious example of the nature of his mysteriousness. Why the heck do we only get his thoughts and inner dialogue concerning observations, psychological profiling, occasional philosophy, and strategic thinking, but not of his goals and motivation? It seems inconsistent at first, but they are in fact, consistently not letting his inner dialogue concern any of his endgame or his reasons for his actions, despite any normal, rational, sane human having those thoughts on an occasional, if not constant basis. In any case, I think he would know, considering his straight 50s on exams. This seems utterly forced. Emotional wise, he did show it at the end of episode 7 concerning his past. |
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PeripheralVision said: To be fair, we are probably pretty early in the overall story. So keep in mind Youkoso is looking to be a long running light novel series, so expecting his endgame motivations to be clearly shared this early is a bit much.I meant motivation, which brings me to another egregious example of the nature of his mysteriousness. Why the heck do we only get his thoughts and inner dialogue concerning observations, psychological profiling, occasional philosophy, and strategic thinking, but not of his goals and motivation? It seems inconsistent at first, but they are in fact, consistently not letting his inner dialogue concern any of his endgame or his reasons for his actions, despite any normal, rational, sane human having those thoughts on an occasional, if not constant basis. In any case, I think he would know, considering his straight 50s on exams. This seems utterly forced. Emotional wise, he did show it at the end of episode 7 concerning his past. |
My Queens |
-Mahesvara said: PeripheralVision said: To be fair, we are probably pretty early in the overall story. So keep in mind Youkoso is looking to be a long running light novel series, so expecting his endgame motivations to be clearly shared this early is a bit much.I meant motivation, which brings me to another egregious example of the nature of his mysteriousness. Why the heck do we only get his thoughts and inner dialogue concerning observations, psychological profiling, occasional philosophy, and strategic thinking, but not of his goals and motivation? It seems inconsistent at first, but they are in fact, consistently not letting his inner dialogue concern any of his endgame or his reasons for his actions, despite any normal, rational, sane human having those thoughts on an occasional, if not constant basis. In any case, I think he would know, considering his straight 50s on exams. This seems utterly forced. Emotional wise, he did show it at the end of episode 7 concerning his past. Indeed, it is just inconsistent to show some thoughts and not others from what I have seen. Anyway, I find him completely boring, and in the mess that is classroom, it seems he just does not have a motivation, with the rampant fucking around the anime is doing. I swear the author or producer used Goodreads to pick and choose intelligent quotes to use for chapter titles, then based said plots around then. I am confused as to why we focusing on x going to y going to z, and ignoring x overall. X being the general premise, and y and z being loose tangents. Of course, it could get better. I thought Steins;Gate was incredibly boring till the 9th or 12th episode. |
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PeripheralVision said: Of course, it could get better. I thought Steins;Gate was incredibly boring till the 9th or 12th episode. Problem is Steins; Gate was a two cour and had no obvious fanservice episode in his first cour. I mean that pretty much how little care the director gives for the story. |
BlueSkylark said: PeripheralVision said: Of course, it could get better. I thought Steins;Gate was incredibly boring till the 9th or 12th episode. Problem is Steins; Gate was a two cour and had no obvious fanservice episode in his first cour. I mean that pretty much how little care the director gives for the story. Indeed, I am still not sure of the Cour here yet. It could just be fucking around with filler before it truly kicks off, similar to the Grisaia Visual Novel. I think it is unnecessary in either case, but it doesn't make them irredeemable...yet. I do have a problem with the beach episode following the events in episode 6. |
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| At this point I think Ayanokoji would go over corpses to get points. xD Besides if you are not sure yet about the cour number. Anichart already has it listed as 12 Eps. |
BlueSkylark said: At this point I think Ayanokoji would go over corpses to get points. xD Besides if you are not sure yet about the cour number. Anichart already has it listed as 12 Eps. Well then...I wasted my time. Thanks for the information. *Gets the fuck out* Ehh, I shall stay. |
| |
| That's right don't compare The Batman with amateur character. |
| i think he is like the MC from ald noah zero |
Daniel_DreibergSep 16, 2017 11:16 PM
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| Surely they are not equal but it's not like they are very different either |
| So many plebs comparing Ayanokojesus to Hachiman. Unacceptable. If you want to compare Ayanakojesus then compare him to Yuji (Grisaia), Slaine (Aldnoah), Shiba "Jesus Christ" Tatsuya (Mahouka). If you want to compare him to hachiman then make sure he can produce more than a hundred of edgy quotes. Not just 5 or 20 edge quotes that is borrowed from known people. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
| except none of those points apply to hachiman while only 3 and 4 applies to ayanokouji =_= and even 3 for ayanokouji is debatable...i doubt he "discovered" he has special talent :/ |
| |
| Why bother to compare when he will be forgotten character anyway |
| Indeed, the comparison is only based on the first episode, where in the first 10 seconds Ayanokuji talks about the idea of equality being a false concept. Other than that, the show abandons it premise and is ultimately on aimless tangents that are barely related. Only episode 4 expanded on the idea of equality Ayanokuji has, but it is episode 10, and these are the only two things I can consider "cynical", "pessimistic", or "edgy". |
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KUROnoKURO said: Doubtful, considering the growing popularity of the series.Why bother to compare when he will be forgotten character anyway |
My Queens |
| He is no way similar to Hikigaya. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
I was looking for this comment. Hail our Lord, 8man. |
| Oh, that's awk, one of the few male characters with the Ayanokouji surname. That said, what's Hikigaya? Some sort of hiki-gay as opposed to hiki-neet? |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| The only thing I can come up with on why people thinks that Hachiman and Ayano have similarities is that they both have dead eyes.. |
| I agree with you. While maybe there are some trait applicable to both of them, doesn't mean they're similar. |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
jfabritz said: Well yeah we find this out in the final episode with how he see's people as merely tools(even Horikita) and only really cares about himself winning at the end.-Mahesvara said: ...both are clouded with mystery, both are borderline sociopaths... I think Ayanokoji is a sociopath - nothing borderline about it. He isn't an 11 on a 10 scale, but he certainly is a 2 or 3. |
-MahesvaraOct 11, 2017 4:41 PM
My Queens |
jfabritz said: I hope Yen Press picks up the novels, I'd rather check the LN's out since I heard the anime was a pretty meh adaption. Still liked it overall though.-Mahesvara said: Well yeah we find this out in the final episode with how he see's people as merely tools(even Horikita) and only really cares about himself winning at the end. That certainly sealed it, but his subtle manipulations early on in the show along with him always deflecting credit away from himself on to others was a sign he liked to operate in the background for his own reasons. I hope to see a second season since I'd like to see more of the development of his character along with some of the others. |
My Queens |
| I don't think he's a gary sue at all tbh. Yes, he's OP as fuck, but he's not perfect, as the teacher said, he's the most flawed of them all, he lacks what you would call "humanity". I think Ayanokouji is a pretty interesting character, while characters like Kirito or Shiba are really predictable, this guy will do pretty much anything as long as he can get away with it for his goals (which is another thing that makes him interesting, what's his goal even?) About comparing him with Hachiman, it's understandable at first glance, but they're trully nothing alike. |
| They have similarities. But Ayanokoji is more of an antagonist. |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Grim1952 said: Yup,as said...He is not perfect at all, just like Onii-Sama...I don't think he's a gary sue at all tbh. Yes, he's OP as fuck, but he's not perfect, as the teacher said, he's the most flawed of them all, he lacks what you would call "humanity". I also agree with him being unpredictable...i was definitely not expecting him to keep same expression and bored attitude for a whole cour :O |
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| He is more like Tatsuya without being siscon and have nothing to care about beside stay under radar. |
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PeripheralVision said: Man, it's truly sad seeing certain comments here and there. This is the saddest one, it's like you can't tie A to B even if they hit you in the face with how they blend together perfectly. Hikigaya is genuinely cynical, and consistently so. For Classroom, this is all just first episode impressions, which I held too, till the anime went on plot tangents that had such a tenuous relation to the introduced conflict that I forgot about what was the source of conflict. Amanokuji does talk about equality, but not much, as it is only for one line in the beginning and the chat with their homeroom teacher. The rest of the episodes concern topics such as public and private personas, dishonesty, reputation, and all that, as reflected in the titles. They do not discuss or add anything to the originally introduced conflict and premise of an Elite School that does away with any notion of "equality". It seems as if the author or whoever just picked random quotes from famous individuals to base episodic plotlines about, rather than focusing on a central theme. Its lack of focus makes any examination completely superficial, and far more of an annoyance on an anime that wants to appear intelligent and engaging. It is the thought of a cynic, but it doesn't last at all. The concept and its poor relation to "equality" are forgotten or put on the backburner, to be brought up at a convenient time. Hikigaya seems to have a personality, and a sense of rationale that determines his actions. Amanokuji simply does not. He neither is in want of or desires to be free of involvement. He just does it. Yet, he is completely without long term or immediate motivation, and personality. He is a complete brick of a character. I commend you though, this bait was especially made for me. Amanokuji does talk about equality, but not much, as it is only for one line in the beginning and the chat with their homeroom teacher. The rest of the episodes concern topics such as public and private personas, dishonesty, reputation, and all that, as reflected in the titles. They do not discuss or add anything to the originally introduced conflict and premise of an Elite School that does away with any notion of "equality". It's like, context is important and you missed how all of this has to do with equality. From the beginning of the show when our protagonist explains that there is no man born greater or lower than others, to then explain that the quote also talked about how environment, specifically academics for this person that made the quote, would make the difference between individuals, thus, making them unequal. They keep on hammering you through the first episodes with the fact that it's not only academic performance mattered, as you can see that some of the characters are put in Class D despite their outstanding grades and behavior, it's also about their shortcomings as people, and in some cases, shortcomings as elites. This isn't only academics or about this school, it's also about life. Hence why we had such focus on specific characters and those specific issues they had. You're also posing the MC's "lack of character" as an issue (when the plot explains every issue he has and why), even if I actually disagree on every level that he lacks a personality of his own or motivations of his own, since that's pretty much denying what the show is telling you as a fact on how human beings function. If you're actually going to answer to this post, I can enter in detail about these basic concepts brought up in this show, like the idea of Icarus not flying of his own will, but rather, put into that position by his father. Maybe you missed the analogy, which I don't doubt as it can be seen in your whole post. Your other criticism is just pure garbage, the show, as a fact, is focusing on equality and the issues that are faced in this "elite school", the MC is not because as we know, he actually has no such interest, unless of course, you didn't watch the show. As for everyone else, you guys have little to no grasp on what the hell is going on here, especially you, @BlueSkylark. Don't ever become a critic of anything. You'd probably claim a knife's defective because you cut your own fingers. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| @Immahnoob I hope you understand that I don't bother with most of your post, since it wasn't meant for me anyway, but for PeripheralVision. Still please don't call me out if you are not mentioning any points that I have made. That way I have no room to argue and can't say that much tbh. Also insulting me doesn't make you look good and I would really like to have a knife like Classroom of the Elite since cutting myself with a dull blade is pretty hard. ^^ Oh one thing I forgot. xD Don't bother waiting for an answer if you respond, because if you don't make any interesting points I might just not care. ^^' Still hope you have good day. :) |
| @Immahnoob I think you have little to no grasp on what the hell is going on here...This is a thread where we compare ayanokouji with Hachiman and tell how they are similar or different...Even if i accepted everything you said about how his lack of character is justified just because author wanted him to lack character for a certain reason that still doesn't change how boring of a character he was for most of the viewers...And also, that's not even the point of this thread...Lets say i can now see the light and understand how good ayanokouji is....That still has nothing to do with current discussion and this whole thread, because you claim that it's not his own will and he actually doesnt care about any of that which makes him different than Hachiman liike PeripheralVision said... |
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LoneWizzy said: Is this why you tagged me? To be completely useless in this discussion?@Immahnoob I think you have little to no grasp on what the hell is going on here...This is a thread where we compare ayanokouji with Hachiman and tell how they are similar or different... Even if i accepted everything you said about how his lack of character is justified just because author wanted him to lack character That's not what I said though. You're blinded by the fact that he is an "ice queen" type, either your definition of "character" is arbitrary or you're fooling around.for a certain reason that still doesn't change how boring of a character he was for most of the viewers... Most of the viewers? You're not part of a majority though, otherwise scores wouldn't be so high. And also, that's not even the point of this thread...Lets say i can now see the light and understand how good ayanokouji is.... Why did you make it about that though? Why did the person I was answering to make it about that?That still has nothing to do with current discussion and this whole thread, because you claim that it's not his own will and he actually doesnt care about any of that which makes him different than Hachiman liike PeripheralVision said... Let's say I accept your inane explanation of what is going on here (and really, you can't even understand what I'm pointing at), but the moment you can't properly identify how a character works is the same moment you can't compare the character to any other.You guys clearly have no idea what you're talking about, hence why your criticism of the character is inaccurate. @BlueSkylark Are you seriously trying to avoid taking responsibility for your retarded post because not everything I mentioned in my post is related to you? Maybe you shouldn't have tagged me at all, or maybe you're some kind of masochist? Ayanokoji feels for me like a Gary Stue . Someone that can do pretty much everything without struggeling at all and without it having any kind of negative consequences for himself. That's not what a "Gary Stu" is, and you're given a perfect reason for why Ayanokouji is a complete monster. The mere fact that he is a "monster" is already consequence enough for your definition to not work anymore. This should already be enough for me to dismiss your thread as a whole.At no point in the story I felt like there is any character that could pose a threat to Ayanokoji at all. That killed of all the shows tension for me and it got boring. This is just a "feeling", which is fine, it means it's irrelevant. The teacher almost booted him out of school, the government or whatever organization called the school seems to have enough power for Ayanokouji to not want to be booted out of school.We still haven't seen Ayanokouji "battle" with some characters. We're still at the stage when everyone's not playing seriously or together against him. etc It's almost as if you've only seen about 3 volumes of a still on-going series. in the end he tarnished his own reputation with it. It's too bad I haven't watched the series you're talking about, but it doesn't matter.Did you actually watch the show? Are you even serious? What about the fact that he is making enemies and slowly attracting attention to himself? Even if he seems to try (failing to do so too) to keep the attention on Suzune. This is another criticism that makes no sense. The show did not need to tell us how awesome Hikigaya was all the time, with him in the focus of all the important figures. I belived that he was awesome solely on the way he acted and talked. At least you tried. It's again, too bad I don't know the show you're talking about, but by your description, I can objectively state that Ayanokouji is the same.We're not told that Ayanokouji is awesome all the time (if we are, it's not without reason), we see it too, through his schemes (his actions) and the way he talks. You can't even properly describe the character you're comparing him to or his situation, wow. If you still think I am wrong at this point I think there is not one thing that you personally thought of that is correct in your OP. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| I don't know how much time you put into that piece of hot air, but I don't really care. You are not interesting enough for me to care and neither are you annoying enough to get me mad. :P Try a bit harder next time. |
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