Spice and Wolf (light novel)
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| I thought Horo said "that guy" was pretty dumb, no? I had the impression he was a cheerful headless farmer guy in village. Anyway, i remember she said Lawrence somehow reminded her of him and he and Lawrence are actually quite different. I can't remember any other guy Horo has openly talked about and i always thought Horo stayed alone near the village for a very very long time after that guy died (which was pretty sad....) until that lucky bast*rd Lawrence popped up and took her with him :D |
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| Decent episode. |
     #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net - the official IRC channel for Fate Testarossa.  |
vinesage said: Don't you dare to insult my dearly Lawrence you bitch.until that lucky bast*rd Lawrence popped up and took her with him :D |
| I didnt exactly understand wat their conversion is about until she ask Lawrence whether he is willing to sell Horo |
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| Call me crazy or perverted... wth they're both true - but I was almost getting the vibe there at the end that she's never had another *human* lover - that all the finger-counting was just to make Lawrence nuts (as usual ;) - and that that is what she's scared by. Is it just me? Someone else had an interesting theory that maybe she's scared that she wouldn't be able to seduce Lawrence (of course, if she could read minds she'd know she shouldn't worry, heh heh) |
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MaraJade116 said: That's possible. At the moment though we don't really have much information on her past...unless the visual novel explains more. I haven't read them so I wouldn't know. I think I would prefer your idea to be true.Call me crazy or perverted... wth they're both true - but I was almost getting the vibe there at the end that she's never had another *human* lover - that all the finger-counting was just to make Lawrence nuts (as usual ;) - and that that is what she's scared by. Is it just me? |
| There's actually two ways to read Holo's expressions. The first is Holo may be a 100+ year old virgin. She likes to play with Lawrence's feelings so it would make sense of her to pretend that she has more experience then him in bed. When he directly asks her how many she's slept with she's shocked and has a look similar to someone who wishes they didn't say anything at all. She her self is most likely a virgin and is "scared" to go beyond what their current relationship is. This is probably why she says "I'm scared. What I'm afraid of is this (getting close to each other). It's fine if you don't understand. Actually, if you come to realize what it is, I might be a bit troubled" . If he comes to realize she wants to mate with him it will make things weird between them if he doesn't hold the same feelings as her. She knows he likes her but she doesn't know to what extent right now.On the flip side she may have truly had a lot of sexual partners or possibly just one she really cared about (ie. the original guy from the village she was wheat god of). Taking the same situation of Lawrence directly asking her how many she's been with we can guess that the reason she didn't want to talk about it is because she doesn't want to lose him due to how many people she's slept with. Her expression isn't that of someone who's embarrassed to talk about it, its mainly that of someone who's in shock and doesn't know how to respond without hurting the other person's feelings. |
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BashZeStampeedo said: DeathfireD said: There's actually two ways to read Holo's expressions. On the flip side she may have truly had a lot of sexual partners or possibly just one she really cared about (ie. the original guy from the village she was wheat god of). Taking the same situation of Lawrence directly asking her how many she's been with we can guess that the reason she didn't want to talk about it is because she doesn't want to lose him due to how many people she's slept with. Her expression isn't that of someone who's embarrassed to talk about it, its mainly that of someone who's in shock and doesn't know how to respond without hurting the other person's feelings. Given his reaction to her in this episode I highly doubt he has any hangups with respect to her having previous lovers. It was almost like he got tired of her persisting on that topic, as she brought it up several times. I think he called her bluff, and she was both surprised and possibly hurt by it. It was nice to see that. It was even nicer when Lawrence immediately let her save face by retracting the question as gracefully as he could. Of course, that's just my interpretation.. I somehow got the impression that Lawrence was genuinely trying to steer the conversation into more meaningful/personal territory, but she ends up moving it away. He seems kinda crushed when she brushes off his from-the-heart advice by telling him that it's just how he wants her to behave. He doesn't look at all like she read his mind, he looks more like he's embarrassed that he's trying to open his heart and here she's putting words in his mouth. ah you have a good point. So I'm guessing you too think shes a Virgin as well or at the very least not as sexually adventuress as she was jokingly claiming to be? I think they where both trying to start a meaningful conversation in their own way. Holo wants him to just come out and tell her his feelings which he hasn't been doing clearly. He tends to play with words but never directly tells her what he's thinking, and I think that's what makes Holo tease him more. But then again it seems like Holo is having trouble making the step into the "more then friends" realm herself and that's why she's "scared". |
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| One quick thing, I don't care if Horo has seen other men, it isn't that big of a deal, especially in an anime community where games where you have sex with 6 girls are okay. Loved the episode, liked the talk they had in the alley, and man that guys skill is good. Lawrence will say no, so don't worry. |
| My anime list |
| Sell Horo!? Nooooooooo!!! |
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mitamaking said: Oh really? but how to explain the title of next ep: wolf and lonely smile? Lawrence will say no, so don't worry. well, it tells me nothing but that lawrence is setting up yet another plot trying to "sell" Horo off for his economic gain and at the same time getting Horo back somehow. And it will all blow up in his face again just like the business with amarti... poor Horo... :-( |
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| Again with this selling Horo off thing again? =_=''' |
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| But of course i never suggested that Lawrence would never ever consider to really sell Horo! I was saying that Lawrence might be planning something again. *Only an example: Like accepting the deal with Fruhl and then think of some really "nice" plans to escape with both Horo and loads of gold in his cart. Then only to find out something unexpected happened and now he must decide between Horo and Gold. (of course there is nothing to decide!) Lawrence is the guy who thinks of himself pretty bright(and he is), but he is still very inexperienced, thus why his plans almost always end up blowing up in his own face and Horo has to help him out. |
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| Sorry if I stray from what you guys are talking about, buuut of course it will all end well..so I'm more concerned about Horo and Lawrence's love than the "selling of Horo" situation. But anyways, my lame thoughts: Horo said in episode 6, "there seems to be many legends about humans and gods mating"...so I'm GUESSING it was an unfathomable thought to her as well at that time before Deanna told so. Also, like some other people said, when Lawrence actually got serious about "how many", Horo didn't seem all too playful and when he changed the subject, she smiled...so maybe she just wanted the openness of being able to tease Lawrence without him actually getting really angry. Errr what else..what else..Oh and I pretty sure Horo is a loyal person, she was the one that got really pissed that Lawrence did not trust her with the Amati situation. My point of view is that.. it is a story about only these two characters. I don't believe they're trying to make her out as a "slut", because Lawrence started the war of jelousy, and Horo was just being her natural self at fighting back and teasing. Hmm and also Horo is a smart girl, no doubt, IF Horo had another love life before the story started, why would she feel so sad with Lawrence leaving her. I mean it's hinted all over the place that she does not want their relationship to end and she wants that bitch to fess up. But she knows he will die before her, so why would she want to keep his affection so closely even if their ties will be broken off in only a small part of her lifetime . Well fuck it, they're fucking in love, and it's only about them two.. I posted to make myself feel good and some of you who are also raging about this, hopefully. THINK OPTIMISTICALLY yeye. Sooo don't shoot down this post, this is my own honest opinion, I'm not arguing, it's whatever. Just know that this will all end well. |
VoicedSep 4, 2009 12:57 AM
BashZeStampeedo said: formosan said: We *don't* know how many lovers have been wolves and how many have been men. We don't know how long the relationships lasted. We know Lawrence reminds Holo of another man she had loved. We do? I recall her mentioning that the way he tilts his chair back reminds her of the guy in Pasroe that she liked, but were there other instances indicating this that I somehow slept through? More to-the-point is the fact that in this episode, even Lawrence seems to have gotten that point that it doesn't matter how many people she's been with. He clearly still wants her, and even apologizes for being momentarily immature about it (unless the subs failed me). formosan said: Jigero said: of course she wouldn't be real serious about it because she probably can barely remember them cause they happened so long ago and they only lasted for maybe a moment of her time. ... So of course she doesn't take love very seriously cause she knows that it's brief for her and she will probably for get all about it in 10 years or so. You're ignoring the hints given by earlier episodes. Holo has had dreams about being a wolf. Those dreams suggested intense loyalty to her pack, which may have included stable mating patterns. Holo seemed distraught by the prospect of Lawrence dying of old age, which may have meant that previous wolf-lovers died in combat, and that previous human lovers died of old age. DragonsWhip said: perhaps Lawrence is the first human that she actually felt attached to. We *don't* know how many lovers have been wolves and how many have been men. We don't know how long the relationships lasted. We know Lawrence reminds Holo of another man she had loved. Possibly the most interesting thing about this show is that it is the first anime I can recall that presented a woman with a high number of prior sex partners as the romantic lead. It's an amazing breakthrough for realistic social relationships in anime. @Jerikoh925, who asked whether Holo had ever been a mother - yes, that would be interesting to know. The chances of Horo having a Wolf lover and having sex with him is extremely low. when Horo was with her wolf pack she was very young in the eyes of god, less then 200 years old before they where wiped out. And for wolves they are very strict about not mating with who aren't considered of age. |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| Ugh, what a painful cliffhanger to watch. |
eRe4s3r said: so probably Spice and Wolf III eh... Sure do hope so anyway : D |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| Add my voice to the users who said she's blackmailing him. "The church turning their backs on her" act was too fake and obvious. That's Holo's intuition for you. How's he going to get out of it this time? I wonder. Great episode as usual. |
BashZeStampeedo said: israfel070 said: Jigero said: The chances of Horo having a Wolf lover and having sex with him is extremely low. when Horo was with her wolf pack she was very young in the eyes of god, less then 200 years old before they where wiped out. And for wolves they are very strict about not mating with who aren't considered of age. Book 4 revealed that she was considered the most powerful wolf in Yoitsu before she left. I will honestly be VERY surprised if we don't learn about a wolf lover before the end of the series. Unless the novels provide more insight I doubt that the topic matters as much as everyone makes it out to be. We really don't have solid evidence, although you can make assumptions if you'd like. Given her age and how sultry she is, I personally doubt that she's a virgin. She knows what she's doing, and she's got confidence that you don't see in virgins very often (she's also not human, so this isn't a safe conclusion). But all of this speculation seems for naught. Unless Horo has a former lover that's still alive, or Lawrence/Horo have other related hangups they aren't showing, it seems the matter was more or less settled here. Lawrence doesn't really seem to mind if she's had other sex partners, he just appeared to just get sick of her raising the issue. If this is foreshadowing, then there is probably some deeper reason behind it than "Lawrence wants a virgin". Same. Didn't she sleep with a wolf in the last season? Or how exactly did she convince him to unblock the path to wherever they were going to? =P |
BashZeStampeedo said: Rebella said: Same. Didn't she sleep with a wolf in the last season? Or how exactly did she convince him to unblock the path to wherever they were going to? =P Some people had other impressions, but I think the consensus is that she simply knelt down and begged/deferred to the younger pup (which of course would be unimaginable given her immense pride). Me too it's uncharacterstic of her to sumbit to something so let alone begging or kneeling. That goes agaist the thing about her being the most powerful wolf/deity in Yoitsu. Maybe she negotiated with that wolf because that's what she does most of the time. |
RebellaSep 4, 2009 11:32 AM
Rebella said: i remember you could see dirt on her knees after that scene, it was suggesting that she knelt down to the younger wolf deity and begged him to let them go. Thats what she meant with losing pride.Maybe she negotiated with that wolf because that's what she does most of the time. |
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| wow another possible big story twist? this season seems ot be full of suprises, a really faster pace than 1st one. |
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| So they left us with the question of what exactly does that woman mean. This episode was average for me and i must say Lawrence and Holo should be grateful they found each other because really other people would go nuts talking all the time and trying to decipher what the other is trying to say. I would have gotten a headache. Even when they go out to eat something they are in constant battle of words. |
| I'm not sure whether Abe's blackmailing Lawrence or not, although it seems that that is a possibility. However, how does she know that Holo is a wolf? Lawrence almost certainly wouldn't give anything away. Anyway, really liked the alley scene and the Holo going to sleep scene. Good episode overall. |
Nitre said: However, how does she know that Holo is a wolf? Lawrence almost certainly wouldn't give anything away. Say what now? When did Abe mention anything about Holo being a wolf? |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| bringer of doom? I always thought Horo is the "knight in shining armor" :-( |
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| This season seems to be focusing a lot more on the actual relationship between Horo and Lawrence than the business deals. That said, I'm leaning towards liking this season more for that very reason. Hopefully this arc will end up as fulfilling as the last. |
| Great character development in this episode.... Sell Horo? This is getting interesting.... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
BashZeStampeedo said: DeathfireD said: ah you have a good point. So I'm guessing you too think shes a Virgin as well or at the very least not as sexually adventuress as she was jokingly claiming to be? I think they where both trying to start a meaningful conversation in their own way. Holo wants him to just come out and tell her his feelings which he hasn't been doing clearly. He tends to play with words but never directly tells her what he's thinking, and I think that's what makes Holo tease him more. But then again it seems like Holo is having trouble making the step into the "more then friends" realm herself and that's why she's "scared". To be honest, I don't care whether she's a virgin or not, because there isn't any real evidence to lean towards either case. The way she acts, though, it's tough to tell. If she's a virgin, then she's an increasingly desperate one and Lawrence really got her good. If she isn't a virgin, then her behavior would seem to indicate that she's worried about Lawrence being upset by it, but now she has her answer. Lawrence had enough tact and decency to not put her on the spot in the end, even though she frankly deserved it. He really is "too kind" :) I also don't think Lawrence really "plays" with words, I think he just doesn't have enough of a vocabulary to make his intentions clear. He's been alone for 7 years, talking merchant talk. Now he's learning from Horo, and let's face it she's not the best teacher (she's kind of lucky he's not a really slow learner or he'd have no idea how to react to her). It seems like Lawrence is getting very frustrated by his own inadequacies as a linguist, because once Horo gets on a topic he clearly finds it difficult to steer it elsewhere. Ya I have mixed feelings about her expression in that particular scene thats why I gave the two possible readings you could get from it. But ya, you pretty much summed up my second point. She's scared of his reaction if she had really been forced to tell him how many people she slept with. I guess that might also be the reason why she's "scared". As for Lawrence's words... I don't think its that he doesn't have enough of a vocabulary at all. If you remember in season one he was already wooing that village girl, so he's no stranger to sweet talking even if he's alone on the road for long amounts of time. He's a merchant, someone who masters with word manipulation and the power to understand the meaning from words that someone says. I'm pretty sure he knows what to say but is just beating around the bush. That's why it's "playing with words". He could easily come out and say what Holo has been trying to get him to say from the start....but he wont till he's ready. |
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greenmush said: well this show loves to give Lawrence problems lol I think thats a bit of an understatement. Overall the episode was okay though I'm wondering if she was merely asking if he would sell her in general or if she really knows Horo is a wolf though knowing this anime its probably the latter. |
| <___< Lawrence obviously won't do something so stupid as to sell Horo. Wtfff. There's some serious biz going down right now. |
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| Love it! Though with 3 episodes left, I start to wish for a 3rd season. I certainly hope it will happen or they should give us a happy end at the very least. |
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