Monogatari Series: Second Season
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Syntriate said: ssjokg said: snip* It was a plotpoint before. Part 2 of Nekomonogatari Black. What?Treating her as a child?Because he makes sure to keep her alive like a servant would? Then in the next parts he bows his head to her for days to get the sword.Definitely not a parent-child relationship. They,for him, are still master and servant,and it is shown every time he caresses her hair. |
| That's the point. He realizes the foolishness in treating her like a child, and stops doing so. And because of that she grows to become the Shinobu we know now. It was said pretty straight in that episode. It's not that he saw her like a child to take care of, but as a child in general. PS. I do apologize for the bad wording I had in my text. |
SyntriateNov 3, 2013 2:06 PM
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
Syntriate said: That's the point. He realizes the foolishness in treating her like a child, and stops doing so. And because of that she grows to become the Shinobu we know now. It was said pretty straight in that episode. It's not that he saw her like a child to take care of, but as a child in general. He saw her as a child.He didnt treat her like one and she was always the "Shinobu we know".That she was sulking has nothing to do with how 3 people affect an apparition.THey wouldnt be able to affect her in a few days. |
| Dayum that was one beautiful episode, probably the best one thus far, except for Nadeko's arc doe. Waiting for dat recap episode next week. |
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| I don't think so. Of course, at this point, it's just a matter of taste which you believe is the answer. Do you say "I'll give you all of them (donuts) if you do a 1080º and bark like a dog" to an adult person, or a several hundred years old ex-strongest-thing-on-earth? He forgot her true nature, saw her like a combination of a child and a rabid dog, and his expectations were met. Oshino said that that's how apparitions work. Meeting the expectations of the believer, in some ways at least. If you choose not to believe that, then, well... Oshino is a liar? People change, and so do apparitions. It's the way of life. |
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
| Oh, finally we know more of Shinobu's past. It was also quite nice the atmosphere, I was really drawn in it. Can't wait to see the ending of Nadeko's arc btw. |
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Syntriate said: I don't think so. Of course, at this point, it's just a matter of taste which you believe is the answer. Do you say "I'll give you all of them (donuts) if you do a 1080º and bark like a dog" to an adult person, or a several hundred years old ex-strongest-thing-on-earth? He forgot her true nature, saw her like a combination of a child and a rabid dog, and his expectations were met. Oshino said that that's how apparitions work. Meeting the expectations of the believer, in some ways at least. If you choose not to believe that, then, well... Oshino is a liar? People change, and so do apparitions. It's the way of life. Taste=/=fact.He thinks she is a child yet she talks and acts like as she normally does.He serves her,as always, and she meets or ruins his expectations.ANd he clearly said that her acting like that wasnt in his expectations . Araragi could say that to everyone. IF an apparition could change so fast and accurately then Kissshot would be a god of japan because of the villagers.If Shinobu was a "child" because 3 people thought that, she wouldnt change because a part apparition like Araragi would think the opposite for a day.Shinobu wasnt talking ever since she became like that.She didnt become like that because they thought her as a child. And yes.Oshino has tricked Araragi and Shinobu before.For example Araragi during the Rainy Devil arc. |
_EngZZ said: This episode felt so fast i thought it was only 10mins :( yeah. I thought oh crap |
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ssjokg said: snip* Then the only question that remains is WHY? Why would Shinobu act like a child and a rabid dog? Why would Oshino lie to Araragi about something SO IMPORTANT as the very basis of what apparitions are? Hmm? If Shinobu was as she is right now, her own sense of dignity would not let her eat those donuts like a wild dog. And why would Oshino lie? Telling Araragi that the belief changes the object of belief wouldn't really help either of them if it was a lie. It just doesn't make sense. And BTW, Kiss-Shot wouldn't have become the god of Japan so easily. Information did not flow very quickly in those times, and sometimes villages wanted to keep their deities to themselves, to keep their favor only for themselves. Remember, everyone that even KNEW of her existence vanished. That tells something about the vastness of the relationship between her and the world. And also, Araragi wouldn't have agreed to put Senjougahara near the rainy devil, thus Oshino had to do it behind his back. Oshino knew that Araragi would survive, and that he would learn his lesson. |
SyntriateNov 3, 2013 4:46 PM
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
Syntriate said: ssjokg said: snip* Then the only question that remains is WHY? Why would Shinobu act like a child and a rabid dog? Why would Oshino lie to Araragi about something SO IMPORTANT as the very basis of what apparitions are? Hmm? If Shinobu was as she is right now, her own sense of dignity would not let her eat those donuts like a wild dog. And why would Oshino lie? Telling Araragi that the belief changes the object of belief wouldn't really help either of them if it was a lie. It just doesn't make sense. And BTW, Kiss-Shot wouldn't have become the god of Japan so easily. Information did not flow very quickly in those times, and sometimes villages wanted to keep their deities to themselves, to keep their favor only for themselves. Remember, everyone that even KNEW of her existence vanished. That tells something about the vastness of the relationship between her and the world. And also, Araragi wouldn't have agreed to put Senjougahara near the rainy devil, thus Oshino had to do it behind his back. Oshino knew that Araragi would survive, and that he would learn his lesson. Why not? Because if Araragi keeps thinking like this she may became a 8 year old that loves donuts instad of blood,which would help Oshino,since she wouldnt turn to her old human killing self again. Kissshot lost her dignity many times before that. I am not saying that is a lie.I am saying that the object of belief wouldnt change overnight. It would be easier and faster to become a god by being worshiped by a village than by being known by 3 people with 1 of them not seeing her at all and the other being part apparition.THe "darkness" has nothing to do with it. I didnt say that it wasnt a good move.I said he tricked him.JUst like he did to both of them in |
ssjokg said: snip* It didn't change overnight... It took months with Araragi, and it took a year with the village. I still don't see the problem. And, as previously said, thinking won't reshape the whole character, just change some aspects in it. Also, Kiss-Shot may have lost her dignity before, but it was usually not in places like that. There is usually more stress involved, like the end of Jiangshi. You can't take away a vampire's bloodlust. We mustn't of course forget the fact that we see the series through Araragi, so he may be seeing the changes in Shinobu's behavior wildly exaggerated compared to the actual changes. And you know... Oshino rarely does things for shits' n' giggles', he usually has a good reason. I can't remember one single time when there hasn't been a larger scheme behind Oshino's seemingly random actions. He's not stupid. Thus the idea of "why not?" does not really apply. Of course, I haven't read the novels, so what do I know? The matter of taste comes from the fact, that one of the core principles of the series is that "With a little change of perspective a thing can look wildly different." Which is what we're at right now. The little change in our perspectives makes for a huge schism. Remember, few things are written to stone in this series. Just don't make me think that just because you've read the novels, you automatically know better. There are too many people who think that, and I hope you don't fall to that category. ... This is kind of pointless, you know? Except for a kind-of interesting argument. |
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
Syntriate said: ssjokg said: snip* It didn't change overnight... It took months with Araragi, and it took a year with the village. I still don't see the problem. And, as previously said, thinking won't reshape the whole character, just change some aspects in it. Also, Kiss-Shot may have lost her dignity before, but it was usually not in places like that. There is usually more stress involved, like the end of Jiangshi. You can't take away a vampire's bloodlust. We mustn't of course forget the fact that we see the series through Araragi, so he may be seeing the changes in Shinobu's behavior wildly exaggerated compared to the actual changes. And you know... Oshino rarely does things for shits' n' giggles', he usually has a good reason. I can't remember one single time when there hasn't been a larger scheme behind Oshino's seemingly random actions. He's not stupid. Thus the idea of "why not?" does not really apply. Of course, I haven't read the novels, so what do I know? The matter of taste comes from the fact, that one of the core principles of the series is that "With a little change of perspective a thing can look wildly different." Which is what we're at right now. The little change in our perspectives makes for a huge schism. Remember, few things are written to stone in this series. Just don't make me think that just because you've read the novels, you automatically know better. There are too many people who think that, and I hope you don't fall to that category. ... This is kind of pointless, you know? Except for a kind-of interesting argument. She didnt become a god after a year with the villagers and naturally she didnt become a child after a few weeks not months because of 2 people. She didnt change form a "child" to the Shinobu we saw in the next parts of Neko Kuro overnight. Thats just choosing what you want. "Why not" goes to Shinobu acting like that. Based on the anime alone it should be obvious that Shinobu couldnt have changed to an 8 year old child and back to a serious Shinobu with 2 people affecting her(I exclude Hanekawa) easier than changing to anything from a hundred or so people. |
ssjokg said: snip* Not rewriting the whole being, just changing some aspects. Like if we're as humans expected to be something, we usually take those expectations subconsciously and act by them. The apparitions on other hand are indifferent to our expectations, but they act how we believe them to act, because it's the very basis of their existence. If they act different than we expect, we either change our beliefs about or see them as something else (Like how the villagers saw her as god). This in turn makes the apparition itself weaker, thus it is in their nature to act the way people believe them to, to stay alive. She didn't change completely in either time, she just changed her pattern of behavior because of the outer influence. And it's not about the amount of people, it's about the link between the apparition and the people. The link between Araragi and Shinobu is stronger than that of the villagers not only because of the vampire blood they share, but because Araragi sees her AS a vampire. But he associates the term "vampire" with Shinobu, who in turn, looks like an 8-year-old, which in turn leads into the link between the belief of vampires and the image of an 8-year-old. The strength of the link between them makes it possible for Araragi's mind to shape her behavior, and only that can make her act so childishly. But, you know. Nothing's written to stone. My explanations are valid to myself, just as your explanations are valid for yourself. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. I do admit that I am burdened with a serious case of overanalyzation, but this series kind of allows it, so why not? This theory is hardly the most crazy I've written, anyway. Try my Bakemonogatari 101 and read the Tanabata part. You will be knocked out of your shoes from the outlandishness of it. It's bonkers. Well, the whole Bakemonogatari 101 is bonkers, so vodyanoy. : D I think I rest my case and go to sleep. I'll check tomorrow again, so don't expect an answer for some time! I had my fun from arguing, did you? |
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
The art was beautiful in this episode. |
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| This episode felt short. I wonder what happened to the original blades if they survived inside the darkness. I feel like that darkness thing eats up things that are not supposed to be. It seems to target oddities and anyone that believes them. I do not think its that simple though its something more specific than that. and to everyone bickering about how shinobu and oddities can change by beleif. I think the oddity themselves have to beleive things on some level because they themselves are self aware observers. That is only assuming that oddities have an effect on oddities though. |
traedNov 3, 2013 9:27 PM
| To people who are wondering why is the darkness was targeting Shinobu before, you do not have to think much because it will be explained later in the arc by a cast member. |
Ramkec said: Waiting for dat recap episode next week. Woah woah... did I miss something here? Why are people assuming this arc is already over? It's only been two episodes in this arc.. and 10 more chapters or so to go. |
ihusmal1234 said: Ramkec said: Waiting for dat recap episode next week. Woah woah... did I miss something here? Why are people assuming this arc is already over? It's only been two episodes in this arc.. and 10 more chapters or so to go. They thought this arc only consist of Shinobu's back story while the whole thing was actually about running and escaping from the darkness and the cause of it. |
Syntriate said: [Stuff] Well, the way I see it, when Oshino said that excentricities acted the way people believe them to act, he meant the way humans as a whole believe them to act. Vampires are known throughout the whole world, they are defined by their myths and legends, not by one person. For a change in the nature of an excentricity, their whole myth or legend has to change as well. If humans as a whole started believing that vampires were adolescent shirtless men that glitter in the sunlight, then vampires would change accordingly. Excentricities are not actually forced to act in any way, it's just that they tend to act how people expect them to act, Shinobu acts, or rather she's supposed to act like one would expect a vampire to act. That's what Oshino said means I think. With Shinobu being a vampire, she had a role that she had to fullfill: she had to act as a vampire. In the story, during a whole year she acted as a godess instead of what she was, she stopped fullfilling her role, that's when the darkness ar-- Ugh! I will need to stop here as to not spoil the anime beyond what can currently be figured out. Basically, what I meant to say by my rant is that you're giving too much credit to Araragi, the changes we see in Shinobu may not actually be changes but simply another side of the personality she already had. Even if they are changes, I would rather say that's because her long-lived life wouldn't allow her the human interaction she is allowed now. One thing that Shinobu said was that the main cause of death for a vampire was boredom. If you live to the point where you actually get bored of living then I'm pretty sure sides of your personality would be repressed. That's actually the reason she-- *sigh* the rest of that would have spoiled Kizu, and that is probably months away... |
"Rejoice! We are humans— we are the most talented people! Precisely because we were born without any ability— we can achieve anything— this is the will of the weakest race!" – Sora, ‘No game No life Vol.01’ |
Aloxamax said: Syntriate said: [Stuff] Well, the way I see it, when Oshino said that excentricities acted the way people believe them to act, he meant the way humans as a whole believe them to act. Vampires are known throughout the whole world, they are defined by their myths and legends, not by one person. For a change in the nature of an excentricity, their whole myth or legend has to change as well. If humans as a whole started believing that vampires were adolescent shirtless men that glitter in the sunlight, then vampires would change accordingly. Excentricities are not actually forced to act in any way, it's just that they tend to act how people expect them to act, Shinobu acts, or rather she's supposed to act like one would expect a vampire to act. That's what Oshino said means I think. With Shinobu being a vampire, she had a role that she had to fullfill: she had to act as a vampire. In the story, during a whole year she acted as a godess instead of what she was, she stopped fullfilling her role, that's when the darkness ar-- Ugh! I will need to stop here as to not spoil the anime beyond what can currently be figured out. Basically, what I meant to say by my rant is that you're giving too much credit to Araragi, the changes we see in Shinobu may not actually be changes but simply another side of the personality she already had. Even if they are changes, I would rather say that's because her long-lived life wouldn't allow her the human interaction she is allowed now. One thing that Shinobu said was that the main cause of death for a vampire was boredom. If you live to the point where you actually get bored of living then I'm pretty sure sides of your personality would be repressed. That's actually the reason she-- *sigh* the rest of that would have spoiled Kizu, and that is probably months away... *years |
| Wow. I forgot to blink. Great episode. I love the narrative and the representation of her story in japanese art. |
Aloxamax said: snip* Well... If I didn't misread your text, the only thing where we actually have differing views is how much one side of an entity can affect the other side. Because the other parts, like vampires acting how their lore them depicts is practically saying one+one = two. If a being lives by the force of belief for them, they actually want to act that way just to stay alive better. It's not a necessity, but it's preferable. If you were asked to live in some way to stay alive, would you? Of course you would. : D So, practically, the point is in the question that when one part of an entity thinks the other part of it is something, doesn't it change, even a little. If you tell yourself every day that your left hand is useless, before long it will be useless. Araragi and Shinobu are linked, dunno how deep, but it seems to be kind-of a big deal. So why wouldn't one part of the entity affect the other? And for the parts which are not in the anime, I can understand. I have my theories, and I'll keep them to myself for now. : D PS. mugimugi, dammit, I forget the basic principles now and then... |
| I MAY BE MAD, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE SOME DIGNITY ! If you must go deeper... Check this blog. Bakemonogatari 101, a must read for any fan! Attack on Titan: Theory of Lies (HEAVY SPOILERS) |
Syntriate said: If a being lives by the force of belief for them, they actually want to act that way just to stay alive better. It's not a necessity, but it's preferable. It is/might be a necessity. Syntriate said: So, practically, the point is in the question that when one part of an entity thinks the other part of it is something, doesn't it change, even a little. If you tell yourself every day that your left hand is useless, before long it will be useless. Araragi and Shinobu are linked, dunno how deep, but it seems to be kind-of a big deal. So why wouldn't one part of the entity affect the other? This is the part where I'm confused or disagree with you. Your words make it look like the way they affect each other is something more than the way two regular people would affect each other. The reason Araragi affect Shinobu the way he does is not because of a 'supernatural' (so to speak) link but because of their past together. The relationship between Kiss-shot and Koyomi hasn't yet been fully explained by the Anime. Maybe you could consider reading Kizumonogatari? It has been fully translated to English. |
"Rejoice! We are humans— we are the most talented people! Precisely because we were born without any ability— we can achieve anything— this is the will of the weakest race!" – Sora, ‘No game No life Vol.01’ |
| Really liked the art style for Shinobu's story in this episode. Was nice to get to know more about her past. |
| wow gay |
mugimugi said: Aloxamax said: Maybe you could consider reading Kizumonogatari? It has been fully translated to English. Kizu doesn't really explain her behavior. The most important things have been said in the anime, one being that she's now the servant. But again, it's a matter of perception. Even for viewers. There a lot of things Nisio Isin leaves up to the reader's/viewer's imagination, even though I'm not sure if that applies to this topic since there's a lot of talk about that in the stories themselves. But it's a mystery/supernatural story afterall, so not knowing things and theorizing about them is half the fun. Even the servant/master thing is based on perception.And seeing Koyomi's actions,he treats her as a servant.Even when Shinobu called him the stronger one,she is the one shown to have more abilities. |
| will the episode 19 finish nadeko arc? i wonder |
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| I want more shinobu! |
mugimugi said: Aloxamax said: Maybe you could consider reading Kizumonogatari? It has been fully translated to English. Kizu doesn't really explain her behavior. The most important things have been said in the anime, one being that she's now the servant. I didn't mean that, I was trying to say that it explains why Shinobu would let herself (or her behavior) be affected by Koyomi in the first place |
"Rejoice! We are humans— we are the most talented people! Precisely because we were born without any ability— we can achieve anything— this is the will of the weakest race!" – Sora, ‘No game No life Vol.01’ |
mugimugi said: reyhangustira said: will the episode 19 finish nadeko arc? i wonder Onimonogatari isn't done yet and plays before Nadeko Medusa. ah, i relieved, thanks |
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| I was totally absorbed into Shinobu's storytelling ^_^ I wonder what was the cause of this Darkness. |
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| Really liked the music this ep |
| felt like it's only 5 minutes long, the way She told her story and the scrolling illustrations were totally awesome. |
My DeviantArt and Pixiv and still waiting patiently for a 3rd season of Spice & Wolf :'| |
| For me it felt like an hour. Gosh some episodes are really good and then there are episodes like this where nothing happens but only talking. I am not a fan of those episodes. Maybe the next will become again interesting for me, I hope so at least :o |
Tendou-kunNov 10, 2013 6:53 PM
Tendou-kun said: Well I also took one hour to watch it but it is because I watched it so many times LOLFor me it felt like an hour. Gosh some episodes are really good and then there are episodes like this where nothing happens but only talking. I am not a fan of those episodes. Maybe the next will become again interesting for me, I hope so at least :o |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Tendou-kun said: For me it felt like an hour. Gosh some episodes are really good and then there are episodes like this where nothing happens but only talking. I am not a fan of those episodes. Maybe the next will become again interesting for me, I hope so at least :o Getting Shinobu's backstory=just talking. As Dr. Evil would say:"Riiiiightt" |
| They may have cut corner in animating so little in this episode, but I quite like the approach of using Emakimono art style to tell the story of Shinobu 400 years ago. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
Tendou-kun said: For me it felt like an hour. Gosh some episodes are really good and then there are episodes like this where nothing happens but only talking. I am not a fan of those episodes. Maybe the next will become again interesting for me, I hope so at least :o A lot of talking in a franchise where one of the defining features is the amount of dialogue, and talking in general? You don't say. As much as it's understandable that this kind of storytelling isn't the most accessable (especially considering S2 in general is the heaviest among the adapted installments as far as storytelling and character development goes), I still think that this is one of those franchises where it's actually good to have this much emphasis on talking in general, and not only because of the dynamic between the characters. This is one of those franchises where it's actually worth to pay attention to how the characters are phrasing/expressing what they say, and how the small, minute details you can find via this way add to the overall picture of their character, to their dynamic with other characters, and to the story in general. For instance I'm indifferent towards Shinobu (though I'm not exactly a fan of her being this jelaous over Koyomi in this arc), but I thought her backstory was rather interesting considering she's a vampire who was worshipped as a god and actually helped people, and it's apparent that she still treats humans better than she realises, let alone how a "normal" vampire would do it. Not to the extend of being outright hanky-panky with them of course (she doesn't even remember the original Oddity Slayer's name), but if this episode is anything to go by, it's like how a more decent human treats edible animals: she propably still treated humans like food back then, but not the extend of belittle them *that* much. And for Shaft's credit I liked the way they visualised Shinobu's backstory: it may be not the most animated thing in the world, but the art style more than made up for it when it comes to present a 400 years old event as visually "authentic" as possible. |
| The ost in this episode... Stellar is the only word that comes to mind for describing it. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
| Niiice, I've been waiting to hear about Kiss-Shot's past and her first servant so much, finally we got some light to it :3 It's a shame the story didn't end up at all as happy as I had thought, though :S It appears he ended up making a suicide far sooner than I originally thought =/ Really not a happy story, now I understand far better why Kiss-Shot didn't want to create another servant... |
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| Some seriously stunning art in this ep. Very beautiful scenes about Shinobu's past. |
ReasonDesu said: I was hoping for more from the start of this arc. The back-story was awesome but having the whole episode being narrated directly from Shonobu felt like it killed a lot of the impact and made it drag, there was hardly any animation between the slow panning stills either. The art was amazing but I feel like they relied way too much on their "style" this episode and the content suffered. It seems many here felt like this but i felt nothing like that at all. I managed to get absorbed in the story and those panels of art gave her a more distant feeling than animation making it really feel like a story of old. The whole thing seem like it passed in 10 min for me. |
Monad said: It seems many here felt like this but i felt nothing like that at all. I managed to get absorbed in the story and those panels of art gave her a more distant feeling than animation making it really feel like a story of old. The whole thing seem like it passed in 10 min for me. Exactly my thought. The idea of picture scrolls were good but then, Shaft has compressed the back story so much until the point is vague and unclear. The whole back story supposed to tell the meeting of Kissshot with the first generation kaii killer and how he eventually died, in detail, but Shaft don't give any fuck on that. Even though the story was dragged (a lot), it should still deserve to be well explained. |
| The art was amazing for this ep. |
| That was an interesting backstory of Shinobu. I can't really wait to see what Kizumonogatari would look like. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| The Vampire's Soliloquy. Shinobu... or Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade's backstory to be more exact. It seemed to be barely related to the current problem, but it was very interesting, anyway. I guess that's all Shinobu knows about the "darkness", some dangerous non-apparition phenomenon that she encountered in Japan. I liked the visual approach to her backstory - like a storybook, basically. |
| Oh ok.. So what's that "darkness" afterall Don't tell me they forget that.. Well, looks like they did xD |
"Signature removed"   |
| Very interesting. I suspect we'll be seeing a certain man missing a hand at some point down the road. :o neonBdragon said: Nah, just one slice of her life.And that is how shinobu came to be. |
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