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Apr 1, 10:24 PM
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Oct 2020
9
It was a solid 7/10 show. That’s it nothing more
Apr 1, 10:32 PM

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Apr 2022
5210
yeah its generic and pretty much only had animation going for it but lets be real, it might actually have a good chance to win at these popularity contests.
Apr 2, 5:20 AM
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Dec 2021
413
to answer some points. they show hunters training, it's obviously viewed positively but you can't level up your mana, that's the difference. And he did question the system, he didn't do task 1 and got punished then he accepted it. And I think there is some clear character development in that the main guys goals have evolved from "I want to support my family" to "I need to be the strongest" and he as a person is becoming darker, which I like (needs more focus tho). I think it was a pretty good anime but without the amazing product, it wouldn't be viewed as well.
Apr 2, 5:46 AM
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Dec 2022
69
Hypnic_Nemesis said:
I know I'm going to set a few people off with this one, but here goes nothing. Solo Leveling feels like such an empty anime. I mean I don't even remember the main character's name. I guess it is supposed to be mature because he gets roughed up by monsters every few episodes, but does he even have a character arc? He just goes from "I want to be the strongest but I'm lame" to "I want to be the strongest and I have a cheat code". Also, the whole concept that no one else can level up their abilities goes against the fabric of reality. In a world where monsters exist, training doesn't make you stronger? What? Since when? And my biggest gripe with all these Real Life Becomes A Dungeon Crawler type shows is that the main character never questions THE SYSTEM. I mean, my first thought when a screen pops out of thin air in front of me is going to be, "Did I just get sucked into the Matrix? Is reality even real? What is the source of this?" But characters like MC-sama here just accept it wholesale instantaneously. Does anyone even question what a dungeon is or how they are appearing behind warp gates? Phenomenal animation, don't get me wrong, but is there any meat in the shell?

brudda missed the point of "only i can level up" but fair enough shit is pretty stupid😹
Apr 2, 8:12 AM
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Mar 2023
241
As a manhwa solo leveling is peak and as a game it would be peak RPG game but as a anime it is disappointment
Apr 2, 10:26 AM

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Nov 2019
10
I don't think this anime can even get an "anime of the day" award.
Apr 2, 4:58 PM
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Nov 2016
14
I love anime but it's a sad fact that many fans have total garbage taste, and the popularity of this show is a great example.
Apr 2, 5:54 PM

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May 2021
685
Indeed, it's derailed to think Solo Leveling is AOTY material but the same could be said about people who thought the same of Made in Abyss S2, Bocchi the Rock!, Sonny Boy, etc.
Apr 2, 6:59 PM
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Jun 2022
75
Hypnic_Nemesis said:
I know I'm going to set a few people off with this one, but here goes nothing.

Is reality even real? What is the source of this?" But characters like MC-sama here just accept it wholesale instantaneously.

Phenomenal animation, don't get me wrong, but is there any meat in the shell?

Cool you have your own opinion, I guess?

Solo Leveling is one of the best manwha, and its anime adaptation is one of the best in the recent years.
- Both have top-level drawing
- Anime has top-level animation
- CG does not look like crap
- Characters are both relatable and aspirational models
- Characters have development
- Multiple characters have motivations that pit them into direct conflict
- Story is nuanced
- Subverts isekai into reverse isekai, and makes it work
- Has awesome pacing
- Reveals in the story are well done, minimizing exposition and throwing the characters into action
- Does not rely on deus ex machina, every curve ball is properly foreshadowed
- Story archs are distinct and logically derive from the previous ones
- Overall story progression is internally coherent
- Character deaths have impact and meaning
- Reveal of the real villain is well done
- Avoids using tropes in a boring way

You say that the first thing you'd do if you saw a game popup appear in your vision.
Well..... you can go back to chapter 2 and see how Jinwoo wobders what this system is, how this would work, and totally disregards it until he is sent to the penalty zone.
So..... ironically, you validated his reaction in your post.

Now, feel free to disagree.
But please consider each of these ppints can become a lengthy discussion.
PuntosmxApr 2, 7:03 PM
Apr 2, 7:00 PM
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Jun 2022
75
Ri-iel said:
LilChowMain said:
It’s mostly Isekai lovers but I have the worst feeling this anime will probably fall off next season. There is no real plot and it kinda reminds me of Goblin Slayer, all you gotta do is hope ig

Next season will be better but it definitely will start falling off after around the halfway point

Halfway?
It is about the halfpoint that the Rulers are revealed, and the truth starts unraveling.
That is the good part.
Apr 2, 7:11 PM
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Jun 2022
75
AustinJamB said:
Hypnic_Nemesis said:
I know I'm going to set a few people off with this one, but here goes nothing.

I agree with most of this, but the idea behind no one being able to get stronger is that obviously you can get physically stronger by training just like real life, but you can’t improve your magic abilities and that’s what matters for fighting monsters

Yes. Totally.
Hunters get their powers due to some mysterious reason, tied to the appearance of portals.
Any further exploration of that idea goes into spoilers, since they do explain it in the future.

Hunters still need to train (already seen multiple times in the first season) and lose their edge (already mentioned in chapter 1) because although their raw power is fixed, they still need to learn....
- How to react to danger
- How to make optimal use of their powers
- Coordination with their teammates
- Battle tactics
- Identification of enemies and their attack patterns
- Getting used to be battered by enemies and not panic
Apr 2, 7:14 PM

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Nov 2013
97
Reply to GTRaijin
Idk why it would even be anime of the season. From what I noticed, the fights are what most people like about it but after watching all 12 episodes it just seems meh. Animation is great, sure but that is kinda about it.

Fights all have the exact same pattern with MC going into the boss room, encountering the boss, thinks that it seems pretty strong but he should be stronger because he leveled up, mc gets ragdolled like a punching bag, before getting almost killed he miraculously heals and then kills the boss in one or few hits, rinse and repeat.

We then have the overhyped to the shit "Arise" scene. That was abaolutely underwhelming and disappointing. Why and what was it hyped for? It's like going to your sleeping sibling and telling them to wake up. There was no oomph, no impact, no epic saying of the line with cool OST or whatever, just saying one word normally and that's it.

Idc honestly if people gonna shit on me for saying this but I just can't seem to find any reasons why Solo Leveling should be above acore of 5. Plot is whatever, side characters are just for MCs convenience, character development is also barely there. Fights could have been better and way more interesting if they actually weren't the exact same thing every time.
GTRaijin said:
Fights all have the exact same pattern with MC going into the boss room, encountering the boss, thinks that it seems pretty strong but he should be stronger because he leveled up, mc gets ragdolled like a punching bag, before getting almost killed he miraculously heals and then kills the boss in one or few hits, rinse and repeat.

We then have the overhyped to the shit "Arise" scene. That was abaolutely underwhelming and disappointing. Why and what was it hyped for? It's like going to your sleeping sibling and telling them to wake up. There was no oomph, no impact, no epic saying of the line with cool OST or whatever, just saying one word normally and that's it.


You hit the nail on the head, it feels very rinse and repeat.

The "arise" scene was funny because there was no tension or weight to the line, he just says it so flatly, lol.
Apr 2, 7:14 PM
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Jun 2022
75
amaricvv said:
What a lot of people don’t understand is that anime or the year is not really about the best anime. It’s whatever pulls in the most votes.

Exactly.
AOTY is not a measurement of quality.
It is just a popularity contest.
Apr 2, 7:33 PM

Offline
Nov 2013
97
Reply to GRG3
Hypnic_Nemesis said:
I know I'm going to set a few people off with this one, but here goes nothing. Solo Leveling feels like such an empty anime. I mean I don't even remember the main character's name. I guess it is supposed to be mature because he gets roughed up by monsters every few episodes, but does he even have a character arc? He just goes from "I want to be the strongest but I'm lame" to "I want to be the strongest and I have a cheat code". Also, the whole concept that no one else can level up their abilities goes against the fabric of reality. In a world where monsters exist, training doesn't make you stronger? What? Since when? And my biggest gripe with all these Real Life Becomes A Dungeon Crawler type shows is that the main character never questions THE SYSTEM. I mean, my first thought when a screen pops out of thin air in front of me is going to be, "Did I just get sucked into the Matrix? Is reality even real? What is the source of this?" But characters like MC-sama here just accept it wholesale instantaneously. Does anyone even question what a dungeon is or how they are appearing behind warp gates? Phenomenal animation, don't get me wrong, but is there any meat in the shell?

Ok so
There's no reasons to question gates or where there came from because it has already been questioned and explored prior to when we meet our mc so people are already used to it. Humanity has no way of knowing what these gates are or how there came, they just exploit it. Furthermore, later on there's a lot of lore and exposition dropped about the world of Solo leveling so you'll get your answer about gates and stuff and how they came into the world soon enough.
The world is specifically tailored to Sung Jin Woo. There's nothing stupid about no one being able to grow stronger cuz that's how the power system works. Its literally in the title. And training does make u stronger. Not in the sense that your abilities increase in skill, but training your knowledge in stuff like martial arts if your an assassin type helps. Experience also helps. Cuz an experienced B ranker is more valuable than an non experienced A ranker. Stuff like this isn't show in most other stuff so Solo Leveling is putting emphasis on these things.

I understand why you don't think its AOTY. There's always gonna be something you ain't gonna like. But there's a lot of reasons why other people like it. It's fun to watch, easy to understand and root for Sung jin Woo and the animation, production and voice acting are all spectacular. Also it's peak.
@HeSaidArise I have nothing against anyone who likes this show, I just thought it would be interesting to point out a few flaws and see what people say they like about the show.

So far I seem to have gotten a large response pool with pretty equal numbers of people saying they like it vs saying they don't.

Nothing that you said refuted or disproved my claims. I still affirm that the power system has no sound logic and the characters don't question their reality enough to feel like real people. The animation was the most fluid, detailed, and dynamic of any show this season and carried the entertainment value for me. That is why I kept watching. I can see why it is popular, power fantasies with good animation tend to get popular (SAO, AoT, OPM, Mushoku, etc) I am just surprised by how many people are totally in love with this one in particular.
Apr 3, 8:38 PM

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Apr 2017
419
Frieren is anime of the year by a long shot. This show is above average with an interesting story.
Apr 3, 11:46 PM

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Nov 2019
29
I mean simply comparing it to something like Frieren it already loses in literally every aspect, and we're not even half way through the year. It'd be lucky to win even one award in any major ranking platform.
Apr 4, 3:07 AM

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Jun 2014
7041
Reading through threads like this is so entertaining cause they invite some of the most pretentious people 💀

“Small brain”
“Shit taste”
“Shounentards”

Oh no god forbid people enjoy a fun and entertaining power fantasy action show where the MC becomes crazy OP. Some people out there, believe it or not, don’t take anime super seriously and let “muh refined and superior taste” define their whole personality. Some people actually just…enjoy the things they choose to watch, without worrying about how their taste will be perceived because they like action shows or whatever the seasons most popular show was😱💀 is it AOTY? No, but that doesn’t take away the fact that to many people out there, it’s a good show in their eyes. If you don’t think so, so be it. Let people enjoy things and find something more suitable to what you like.
People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime.

Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait.



Apr 4, 4:11 AM
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Apr 2022
167
This is literally SAO all over again lmfao.
Apr 4, 11:19 AM
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Mar 2024
1
I think it was cool but the pacing completely destroyed it for me. It became a collection of bland and useless scenes every time the action was picking up. Which is a shame as the pacing is the best thing about the manhwa.
Apr 4, 4:17 PM
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Jan 2021
85
Reply to fabsrosa
I think it was cool but the pacing completely destroyed it for me. It became a collection of bland and useless scenes every time the action was picking up. Which is a shame as the pacing is the best thing about the manhwa.
@fabsrosa what pacing was good like 4 chap per ep
Apr 7, 9:39 PM
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Dec 2017
1209
Reply to Liam19
It has a similar feel to Demon Slayer in a way, mainly because both of them are animes where you don't have to think about the plot and where you can just watch nicely animated fighting every episode. That's all it is as of now and it's well done. Probably doesn't deserve anime of the year however.
@Liam19 And where would these well-animated fights be in Solo leveling? 12 episodes and only 1 episode had a well animated fight, lol
Apr 7, 9:43 PM
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Dec 2017
1209
Reply to Kaitaka12
The show is being adapted in small parts and as it is it definitely isn't aoty material, The reason why people hype it so much is because the manhwa as a whole is definitely top tier and could be aoty contender if fully or halfway adapted but it wouldn't be possible

There isn't much happening but I could see solo leveling sneak into the nomination or contender of aoty considering its popularity
@Kaitaka12 The manhwa is high level only for the drawings and fighting, regarding plot, characters, wordbuilding etc... it really sucks
Apr 7, 9:45 PM
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Dec 2017
1209
Reply to pluginpanda
it’s a 6/10 anime with 10/10 animation, not even anime of the season
@pluginpanda But where did you see this 10/10 animation? Are we talking about Fate by any chance?
Apr 7, 10:01 PM
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Dec 2017
1209
Reply to thebrentinator24
Reading through threads like this is so entertaining cause they invite some of the most pretentious people 💀

“Small brain”
“Shit taste”
“Shounentards”

Oh no god forbid people enjoy a fun and entertaining power fantasy action show where the MC becomes crazy OP. Some people out there, believe it or not, don’t take anime super seriously and let “muh refined and superior taste” define their whole personality. Some people actually just…enjoy the things they choose to watch, without worrying about how their taste will be perceived because they like action shows or whatever the seasons most popular show was😱💀 is it AOTY? No, but that doesn’t take away the fact that to many people out there, it’s a good show in their eyes. If you don’t think so, so be it. Let people enjoy things and find something more suitable to what you like.
@thebrentinator24 And do you think it's fair that many mediocre shows receive undeserved praise, unlike others that deserve more? To give an example, Phantom Seer was a promising manga that was canceled because it didn't receive the right attention (even if it's a more complex discussion to make) and instead only leveling receives universal acclaim for having brought what? another generic story already seen and reviewed? Well, always seeing these generic works receive more attention than other works that deserve more is annoying and not a little, like Demon Slayer or Sao to give an example, actually posts like these are useful to make people wake up and understand that it's not everything that we enjoy looking at is gold...
Apr 7, 10:22 PM
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Dec 2017
1209
Reply to Puntosmx
Hypnic_Nemesis said:
I know I'm going to set a few people off with this one, but here goes nothing.

Is reality even real? What is the source of this?" But characters like MC-sama here just accept it wholesale instantaneously.

Phenomenal animation, don't get me wrong, but is there any meat in the shell?

Cool you have your own opinion, I guess?

Solo Leveling is one of the best manwha, and its anime adaptation is one of the best in the recent years.
- Both have top-level drawing
- Anime has top-level animation
- CG does not look like crap
- Characters are both relatable and aspirational models
- Characters have development
- Multiple characters have motivations that pit them into direct conflict
- Story is nuanced
- Subverts isekai into reverse isekai, and makes it work
- Has awesome pacing
- Reveals in the story are well done, minimizing exposition and throwing the characters into action
- Does not rely on deus ex machina, every curve ball is properly foreshadowed
- Story archs are distinct and logically derive from the previous ones
- Overall story progression is internally coherent
- Character deaths have impact and meaning
- Reveal of the real villain is well done
- Avoids using tropes in a boring way

You say that the first thing you'd do if you saw a game popup appear in your vision.
Well..... you can go back to chapter 2 and see how Jinwoo wobders what this system is, how this would work, and totally disregards it until he is sent to the penalty zone.
So..... ironically, you validated his reaction in your post.

Now, feel free to disagree.
But please consider each of these ppints can become a lengthy discussion.
@Puntosmx I accept the challenge, first of all by saying that no, Solo leveling is not one of the best manhwa out there (popular does not mean good) and it certainly doesn't have the advantage of having one of the best anime adaptations out there, but let's start in order:
1- the anime definitely doesn't have high level animation, there are some well animated scenes but overall the animation was average if not disappointing
2- This anime uses practically little CGI, so I don't even understand why I should mention it
3- It's not really true, given that the only character explored in depth is Jin Woo who will increasingly lose his humanity
4- This is also bullshit, the only one who has development is Jin woo and maybe some shadow of him, the rest of the cast are just useless spots that are of little use
5- This also seems like bullshit, what would these reasons be?
6- The story is the most elementary thing of all, also because it cannot distance itself from the usual clichés of time travel
7- this is definitely not an isekai and it's not a reverse isekai, brother
8- But if the pacing was the worst part of the show, it always kept wasting time with very long episodes and useless scenes where nothing happened...
9- Of course it was wonderful to discover who the 5 strongest hunters in the world are and to know what powers they had... I was obviously being ironic to make you understand that it's not true
10- Oh no? Back from the Dead, Time Travel, Infinite Skills... the pretension of this show was born from a deus ex machina, lol
11- The more I go on the more I wonder if you are trolling
12- Do deaths have impact and meaning? But what am I reading ☠️
13- So good that they still have to explain to me how the villain managed to manifest himself in the earth without a container that could contain his power...

Well I have no idea what you read, but it sure isn't just leveling, damn The author doesn't even know India is in Asia to say how mediocre this work is, lol
Apr 8, 11:19 PM
Offline
Jun 2022
75
Reply to Leon888
@Puntosmx I accept the challenge, first of all by saying that no, Solo leveling is not one of the best manhwa out there (popular does not mean good) and it certainly doesn't have the advantage of having one of the best anime adaptations out there, but let's start in order:
1- the anime definitely doesn't have high level animation, there are some well animated scenes but overall the animation was average if not disappointing
2- This anime uses practically little CGI, so I don't even understand why I should mention it
3- It's not really true, given that the only character explored in depth is Jin Woo who will increasingly lose his humanity
4- This is also bullshit, the only one who has development is Jin woo and maybe some shadow of him, the rest of the cast are just useless spots that are of little use
5- This also seems like bullshit, what would these reasons be?
6- The story is the most elementary thing of all, also because it cannot distance itself from the usual clichés of time travel
7- this is definitely not an isekai and it's not a reverse isekai, brother
8- But if the pacing was the worst part of the show, it always kept wasting time with very long episodes and useless scenes where nothing happened...
9- Of course it was wonderful to discover who the 5 strongest hunters in the world are and to know what powers they had... I was obviously being ironic to make you understand that it's not true
10- Oh no? Back from the Dead, Time Travel, Infinite Skills... the pretension of this show was born from a deus ex machina, lol
11- The more I go on the more I wonder if you are trolling
12- Do deaths have impact and meaning? But what am I reading ☠️
13- So good that they still have to explain to me how the villain managed to manifest himself in the earth without a container that could contain his power...

Well I have no idea what you read, but it sure isn't just leveling, damn The author doesn't even know India is in Asia to say how mediocre this work is, lol
@Leon888 The very fact you consider this a "challenge" already shows a lot of red flags.
You replying to a series of things as if trying to debunk everyone is another big red flag.

But let's see if we can make this a constructive discussion, shall we?
Hard to answer point-by-point when I wrote 16, whils you wrote 13, but let's try pairing them.....

Leon888 said:
Solo leveling is not one of the best manhwa out there

Well, in that case list here the three best (not most popular, not the ones you like best) manhwas in history.
PROVE your words are true.

- Both have top-level drawing

You missed this one. That means you accept it has top-level drawing?

- Anime has top-level animation
1- the anime definitely doesn't have high level animation, there are some well animated scenes but overall the animation was average if not disappointing

The animation quality does not matter on the sloq, quiet, tranquil scenes.
The moment it matters is in the high-action scenes.
Avoiding animation loops, repetition of animations, shaky cam over static drawings, moving special effects over static drawings, and other cost-saving measures is a sign of high quality.
Smooth movement is the rule in SL even on quiet scenes. The animation may be reduced in those, but it is high quality even then.

- CG does not look like crap
2- This anime uses practically little CGI, so I don't even understand why I should mention it

Anime is a multimedia product. Everything in it matters. From the drawing to the animation to the music to the opening and ending.
If the anime has CG, it is a factor for measuring the quality of that anime.
Although your comment sounds like you only consider CG when it is all the anime, like the new Berserk.
But comparing the CG in SL to.... say.... Lv99 villainess?
SL does it right.

- Characters are both relatable and aspirational models
3- It's not really true, given that the only character explored in depth is Jin Woo who will increasingly lose his humanity

Two arguments from you here.

While it is true that the only character that is "truly explored in depth" is indeed JinWoo, that does not mean other characters don't get screen time and development.
Go Gun-Hee is the grizled veteran.
Woo Jin-Chul is the ikemen.
Baek Yoon-Ho is the brute.
Choi Jong-In is the tactician.
Like it or not, they are ideals, and have relatable features.

So, even though those characters are not "truly explored in depth", they don't NEED to be.
The one character that needs to be explored in depth is the Protagonist.
You asking the story to explore secondary and tertiary characters only makes you sound pedantic.

- Characters have development
4- This is also bullshit, the only one who has development is Jin woo and maybe some shadow of him, the rest of the cast are just useless spots that are of little use

Lee Joohee goes from a worried sister/love interest to a trumatized state to start her recovery after the third dungeon. That, as you shold know, is a character arc. The fact it is no further explored into her full recovery does not detract from the fact that the arc is there.
Kim Sangshik being a father makes him a relatable figure. He gets more screentime on the anime than in the manwha, and his portrayal as father IS relatable. Also, his cycle from confident hunter to him escaping cowardly to him apologizing to JinWoo IS a character arc.

You keep asking secondary and tertiary characters to be treated like the protagonist, and that is madness.

- Multiple characters have motivations that pit them into direct conflict
5- This also seems like bullshit, what would these reasons be?

You syaing things are bullshit does not make them so.
Those motivations that you clearly did not notice appear from the first dungeon.
Characters want money, and that leads them to either cooperate (first dungeon) or murder their companions (second dungeon).
Of course there is the thrill of muder (third dungeon).
And revenge.

All of which seem to be beneath your notice, which is not a fault in the anime, but in your perception and analysis.

- Story is nuanced
6- The story is the most elementary thing of all, also because it cannot distance itself from the usual clichés of time travel

If you boil it down to "main character fights to become strong", every single action shounen is the same.
You can go back to watch Astroboy if that is your metric.

Meanwhile, everything in SL has nuance.
Dungeons appear. But if left unattended, monsters come out.
Monsters are immune to conventional weapons. But humans develop powers to fight them.
Dungeins are a source of destruction. But they can be mined for resources.
Hunters can be separated by power level. But they can't change that power level.
Training won't increase a Hunter's power. Yet, it is crucial for the Hunter to learn how to use that power.
Main character is an orphan. Yet, his father was a Hunter that disaooeared years ago.
The Hunter Association ar ethe "good guys". One of the antagonists that tries to kill MC is part of that association.

Now, I wonder what kind of time traveling cliches you are bothered about.
Modern "time travel" is always a boring "went back in time and created a paralel universe", which is not the case in here.
Also, time traveling is not at the forefront of the story, but it is revealed WAAAAAAAAY at the last arc of the story. Traditional time traveling stories put it front and center, which SL does not.

The very motivation for JinWoo to raid dungeons is nuanced:
He needs to participate so that he does not need to pay the hospital fees to keep his mother alive. Meanwhile, he SUCK majorly at the job, and no amount of training or effort will change that.
Compared to your average action shounen protagonist, that is already novel-level.
Or do you believe that Goku or Midoriya or Luffy have nuanced and compeling motivations to do what they do?
Especially since chapter 1?

- Subverts isekai into reverse isekai, and makes it work
7- this is definitely not an isekai and it's not a reverse isekai, brother

There are hundreds, if nor millions, worlds that the Rulers have invaded and destroyed.
Dungeons are not part of this world.
Portals connect the main world with the dungeons.
- That is the definition of isekai.

Characters come out of the portals into the world.
That includes the Sovereigns, even if they inhabit human hosts.
- That is the definition of reverse isekai.

- Has awesome pacing
8- But if the pacing was the worst part of the show, it always kept wasting time with very long episodes and useless scenes where nothing happened...

For ADHD children raised by television who need colorful movement and flashing lights to not lose focus?
Yeah, the SLOW pace of the story is a problem.

Yet, those "useless scenes" you criticize are the place where the "normal world" is established.
If you studied the Journey of the Hero, you'd know that it is crucial for this "normal world" to be established, since it marks the baseline from where the adventure of the hero can be defined as "not normal", and thus, exciting.

- Reveals in the story are well done, minimizing exposition and throwing the characters into action
9- Of course it was wonderful to discover who the 5 strongest hunters in the world are and to know what powers they had... I was obviously being ironic to make you understand that it's not true

Your irony only serves for you to feel you are right, even though you are wrong.
Yeah, they showed some of the top-level S-tier hunters.
The ones who will be both allies and antagonists for JinWoo.
They also showed Jeju Island. Twice. Which is both a backstory inflection point for the whole story (it was there that humanity learned unattended gates are a problem), and a future inflection point for JinWoo in his battles against the Rulers.

- Does not rely on deus ex machina, every curve ball is properly foreshadowed
10- Oh no? Back from the Dead, Time Travel, Infinite Skills... the pretension of this show was born from a deus ex machina, lol

Back from the dead? JinWoo said "yes" to the prompt before dying. So, he merely was healed. Heling was a big deal during chapters 1 and 2.
Time travel? That is propperly set up and executed in a future arc. I wonder why you keep on wanting to discuss things that have not been shown on screen yet.
Infinite Skills? Well, that shows you don't understand what "deus ex machina" means.

Let's check TVTropes....
A Deus ex Machina is when some new event, character, ability, or object solves a seemingly unsolvable problem in a sudden, unexpected way.
- Dei ex Machina are solutions to a problem.
- Dei ex Machina are sudden or unexpected.
- Dei ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless.
- Dei ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story.
While you can argue that the second dungeon MAY be a Deus, since it is not propperly stated what could happen when they succeed in the test, even a lot of its characteristics are propperly SET UP before they even enter.
And that is why your cries about skills and time travel and such are not real DEM.
When a writer sets up a power or possibility, and it is revealed in the critical moment, that is the writer being good at writing.

I suggest listening to Brandon Sanderson for more information. He makes very good explanation for how to avoid DEM.

- Story archs are distinct and logically derive from the previous ones
- Overall story progression is internally coherent
11- The more I go on the more I wonder if you are trolling

404. Argument not found.
Also, please stop projecting. You are the one trolling here.


- Character deaths have impact and meaning
12- Do deaths have impact and meaning? But what am I reading ☠️

404, argument not found.
If you can't show why I am wrong, that means I am right.
Your lack of argument proves me right.
Thank you.

- Reveal of the real villain is well done
13- So good that they still have to explain to me how the villain managed to manifest himself in the earth without a container that could contain his power...

Which villain?
The one that HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN YET?
Oh, don't worry. Name him and I'll explain it to you, since you already proved you did not understand when you read the manwha.

- Avoids using tropes in a boring way

Ok, another unanswered argument.
Which means you know I am right in it.

I'll wait for your kind reply.
Especially yout top-3 best manwha of all time list.
I am always eager to dive into quality media.
PuntosmxApr 8, 11:28 PM
Apr 9, 6:42 PM
Offline
Dec 2017
1209
Reply to Puntosmx
@Leon888 The very fact you consider this a "challenge" already shows a lot of red flags.
You replying to a series of things as if trying to debunk everyone is another big red flag.

But let's see if we can make this a constructive discussion, shall we?
Hard to answer point-by-point when I wrote 16, whils you wrote 13, but let's try pairing them.....

Leon888 said:
Solo leveling is not one of the best manhwa out there

Well, in that case list here the three best (not most popular, not the ones you like best) manhwas in history.
PROVE your words are true.

- Both have top-level drawing

You missed this one. That means you accept it has top-level drawing?

- Anime has top-level animation
1- the anime definitely doesn't have high level animation, there are some well animated scenes but overall the animation was average if not disappointing

The animation quality does not matter on the sloq, quiet, tranquil scenes.
The moment it matters is in the high-action scenes.
Avoiding animation loops, repetition of animations, shaky cam over static drawings, moving special effects over static drawings, and other cost-saving measures is a sign of high quality.
Smooth movement is the rule in SL even on quiet scenes. The animation may be reduced in those, but it is high quality even then.

- CG does not look like crap
2- This anime uses practically little CGI, so I don't even understand why I should mention it

Anime is a multimedia product. Everything in it matters. From the drawing to the animation to the music to the opening and ending.
If the anime has CG, it is a factor for measuring the quality of that anime.
Although your comment sounds like you only consider CG when it is all the anime, like the new Berserk.
But comparing the CG in SL to.... say.... Lv99 villainess?
SL does it right.

- Characters are both relatable and aspirational models
3- It's not really true, given that the only character explored in depth is Jin Woo who will increasingly lose his humanity

Two arguments from you here.

While it is true that the only character that is "truly explored in depth" is indeed JinWoo, that does not mean other characters don't get screen time and development.
Go Gun-Hee is the grizled veteran.
Woo Jin-Chul is the ikemen.
Baek Yoon-Ho is the brute.
Choi Jong-In is the tactician.
Like it or not, they are ideals, and have relatable features.

So, even though those characters are not "truly explored in depth", they don't NEED to be.
The one character that needs to be explored in depth is the Protagonist.
You asking the story to explore secondary and tertiary characters only makes you sound pedantic.

- Characters have development
4- This is also bullshit, the only one who has development is Jin woo and maybe some shadow of him, the rest of the cast are just useless spots that are of little use

Lee Joohee goes from a worried sister/love interest to a trumatized state to start her recovery after the third dungeon. That, as you shold know, is a character arc. The fact it is no further explored into her full recovery does not detract from the fact that the arc is there.
Kim Sangshik being a father makes him a relatable figure. He gets more screentime on the anime than in the manwha, and his portrayal as father IS relatable. Also, his cycle from confident hunter to him escaping cowardly to him apologizing to JinWoo IS a character arc.

You keep asking secondary and tertiary characters to be treated like the protagonist, and that is madness.

- Multiple characters have motivations that pit them into direct conflict
5- This also seems like bullshit, what would these reasons be?

You syaing things are bullshit does not make them so.
Those motivations that you clearly did not notice appear from the first dungeon.
Characters want money, and that leads them to either cooperate (first dungeon) or murder their companions (second dungeon).
Of course there is the thrill of muder (third dungeon).
And revenge.

All of which seem to be beneath your notice, which is not a fault in the anime, but in your perception and analysis.

- Story is nuanced
6- The story is the most elementary thing of all, also because it cannot distance itself from the usual clichés of time travel

If you boil it down to "main character fights to become strong", every single action shounen is the same.
You can go back to watch Astroboy if that is your metric.

Meanwhile, everything in SL has nuance.
Dungeons appear. But if left unattended, monsters come out.
Monsters are immune to conventional weapons. But humans develop powers to fight them.
Dungeins are a source of destruction. But they can be mined for resources.
Hunters can be separated by power level. But they can't change that power level.
Training won't increase a Hunter's power. Yet, it is crucial for the Hunter to learn how to use that power.
Main character is an orphan. Yet, his father was a Hunter that disaooeared years ago.
The Hunter Association ar ethe "good guys". One of the antagonists that tries to kill MC is part of that association.

Now, I wonder what kind of time traveling cliches you are bothered about.
Modern "time travel" is always a boring "went back in time and created a paralel universe", which is not the case in here.
Also, time traveling is not at the forefront of the story, but it is revealed WAAAAAAAAY at the last arc of the story. Traditional time traveling stories put it front and center, which SL does not.

The very motivation for JinWoo to raid dungeons is nuanced:
He needs to participate so that he does not need to pay the hospital fees to keep his mother alive. Meanwhile, he SUCK majorly at the job, and no amount of training or effort will change that.
Compared to your average action shounen protagonist, that is already novel-level.
Or do you believe that Goku or Midoriya or Luffy have nuanced and compeling motivations to do what they do?
Especially since chapter 1?

- Subverts isekai into reverse isekai, and makes it work
7- this is definitely not an isekai and it's not a reverse isekai, brother

There are hundreds, if nor millions, worlds that the Rulers have invaded and destroyed.
Dungeons are not part of this world.
Portals connect the main world with the dungeons.
- That is the definition of isekai.

Characters come out of the portals into the world.
That includes the Sovereigns, even if they inhabit human hosts.
- That is the definition of reverse isekai.

- Has awesome pacing
8- But if the pacing was the worst part of the show, it always kept wasting time with very long episodes and useless scenes where nothing happened...

For ADHD children raised by television who need colorful movement and flashing lights to not lose focus?
Yeah, the SLOW pace of the story is a problem.

Yet, those "useless scenes" you criticize are the place where the "normal world" is established.
If you studied the Journey of the Hero, you'd know that it is crucial for this "normal world" to be established, since it marks the baseline from where the adventure of the hero can be defined as "not normal", and thus, exciting.

- Reveals in the story are well done, minimizing exposition and throwing the characters into action
9- Of course it was wonderful to discover who the 5 strongest hunters in the world are and to know what powers they had... I was obviously being ironic to make you understand that it's not true

Your irony only serves for you to feel you are right, even though you are wrong.
Yeah, they showed some of the top-level S-tier hunters.
The ones who will be both allies and antagonists for JinWoo.
They also showed Jeju Island. Twice. Which is both a backstory inflection point for the whole story (it was there that humanity learned unattended gates are a problem), and a future inflection point for JinWoo in his battles against the Rulers.

- Does not rely on deus ex machina, every curve ball is properly foreshadowed
10- Oh no? Back from the Dead, Time Travel, Infinite Skills... the pretension of this show was born from a deus ex machina, lol

Back from the dead? JinWoo said "yes" to the prompt before dying. So, he merely was healed. Heling was a big deal during chapters 1 and 2.
Time travel? That is propperly set up and executed in a future arc. I wonder why you keep on wanting to discuss things that have not been shown on screen yet.
Infinite Skills? Well, that shows you don't understand what "deus ex machina" means.

Let's check TVTropes....
A Deus ex Machina is when some new event, character, ability, or object solves a seemingly unsolvable problem in a sudden, unexpected way.
- Dei ex Machina are solutions to a problem.
- Dei ex Machina are sudden or unexpected.
- Dei ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless.
- Dei ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story.
While you can argue that the second dungeon MAY be a Deus, since it is not propperly stated what could happen when they succeed in the test, even a lot of its characteristics are propperly SET UP before they even enter.
And that is why your cries about skills and time travel and such are not real DEM.
When a writer sets up a power or possibility, and it is revealed in the critical moment, that is the writer being good at writing.

I suggest listening to Brandon Sanderson for more information. He makes very good explanation for how to avoid DEM.

- Story archs are distinct and logically derive from the previous ones
- Overall story progression is internally coherent
11- The more I go on the more I wonder if you are trolling

404. Argument not found.
Also, please stop projecting. You are the one trolling here.


- Character deaths have impact and meaning
12- Do deaths have impact and meaning? But what am I reading ☠️

404, argument not found.
If you can't show why I am wrong, that means I am right.
Your lack of argument proves me right.
Thank you.

- Reveal of the real villain is well done
13- So good that they still have to explain to me how the villain managed to manifest himself in the earth without a container that could contain his power...

Which villain?
The one that HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN YET?
Oh, don't worry. Name him and I'll explain it to you, since you already proved you did not understand when you read the manwha.

- Avoids using tropes in a boring way

Ok, another unanswered argument.
Which means you know I am right in it.

I'll wait for your kind reply.
Especially yout top-3 best manwha of all time list.
I am always eager to dive into quality media.
@Puntosmx What alarm bells would those be? Well you're strange, and yes I didn't list 3 points because they were points in which I agreed with you (when I ignore points it's either because I agree with you or it's because there's no point in commenting), but let's go in order:

1- Well I don't understand this thing of listing the 3 best manhwa since I don't know them all, but I'll try to tell you anyway: Tower Of God, The Beggining After the end, Omniscient reader vewrpoint

2- I don't understand this reasoning, I don't criticize the animation just because it is static in the calm moments, but precisely because it is inconsistent in the action moments, like in episode 6 when he faces the hunters you see many wooden or poorly animated scenes, many times you don't even see the blood or the hits on the enemies... or in episode 1 which seemed like a low budget episode as the action scenes were static, or even ep 9 which was an alternation between well animated moments and others rather bad... overall only ep 11 and 12 presented real peaks of Sakuga and partly also ep 2 and ep 4, the rest of the season was very bland, especially for the character designs which were among the most mediocre and generic possible

2- No, if the anime doesn't use cgi I don't see the point in making the comparison and it doesn't have to be full cgi to be able to criticize it, just think of the giants of aot in the final season part 1 who sucked in cgi or even sometimes in the 'demon slayer anime like the film mugen train in which there was that cgi slime that was very disgusting... here it is only used for special effects during the shots, but they don't come close to the use that A1 pictures usually puts into other shows such as Sao

3- Here it seems that you don't know how a story develops... the protagonist is not the only one who needs to be explored or characterized but also the secondary characters must find their own characterization and those you have listed are just stereotypes already seen and reviewed in 1000 more anime, saying that secondary characters don't need characterization makes me question if you really know how to structure a story

4- Lee Joohee really? Are you seriously going to take a character who disappears into thin air without having the slightest importance for the plot? Lol. Kim Sangshik the most forgettable character in the story and you are going to mention it to me as a great construction of this useless character hahaha, I don't ask that the secondary characters be treated as protagonists, I ask that they be treated as secondary characters or that they have a minimum of weight in the story... go read Vinland Saga and learn how to build secondary characters

5- Hahhahaha you are increasingly embarrassing, would these be the big reasons that put them in conflict with each other? My god how are we 🤦‍♂️

6- More and more convinced that I'm wasting my time, furthermore Solo leveling is not a shonen battle... and what you described are elemental things that are found in thousands of isekai, lol, then it's funny that in your classic average Shonen protagonists, don't put Tanjiro, don't put Edward Elric, don't put Eren, don't they also have nuanced and convincing reasons for doing what they do?

7- This doesn't make it an isekai or a reverse isekai, if not then any anime involving dragon ball type aliens would be an isekai and reverse isekai, lol

8- With this my brain neurons are dying, seeing 3 girls having tea at the bar, seeing the little sister eating a sandwich, seeing Chae running only to show a camera shot of her ass, would these be establishments of the normal world? If this is the case, the person suffering from some mental illness is you, my dear

9- They also showed the 5 National Hunters who are Thomas Andre, Liu Zhigang, Christoper Reed and... wait, they didn't show them all who knows why, perhaps because this manhwa is the most banal thing of all that doesn't even manage to show everyone properly 5 national hunters? Just as it doesn't explain anything about the various types of classes there are, the various S-rank Dungeons completed and so on... hahhaa my irony is to make you understand that you're wrong because you're wrong, lol

10- You were talking about future things in the show so I took the trouble to focus my answers on the whole manhwa, and yes the fact that Jin Woo dies during his battle with the 3 rulers and then rises again is a deux ex machina, the fact that Jin Woo wins against Antares simply by summoning the other Sovereigns and another Deux ex machina, the fact that Jin Woo goes back in time to save everyone is another deux ex machina... you have as many as you want in the deux ex machina manhwa so to say that they are not there is pure madness

11- I got tired of reading so much bullshit that I started wondering if I was a troll, unfortunately the answer is no

12- The only death that has an impact is Christopher Reed's, the rest are just fairly superfluous deaths

13- Antares lol, go ahead explain
Apr 9, 9:36 PM
Offline
Jun 2013
651
Reply to Rakib224u
It's anime of the year material because the manhwa has 200 million views on piccoma. The game gained 5 million downloads in a week. Of course there should be a reason for that. Also if you go to google trend and compare with frieren. Let me tell you who wins here. The graph goes up for solo leveling and shows that its internationally famous and frieren is not famous except japan lol. And Of course Famous shows will always win Awards. This is why demon slayer always wins awards even though there are a lot of other good animez
@Rakib224u That doesn't make sense, manhwa is korean comics and anime it's japanese animation, so because it's popular on korea's internet, it suddenly makes it japanese AOTY material?

Also your argument about Frieren not being famous outside Japan because of Google trends is laughable.
Apr 9, 10:33 PM
Offline
Jun 2016
7
To be fair, if dungeons start popping up and days or years later a screen pops up, I wouldn't question it. Weirder things have happened and if I'm stuck in some simulated reality its not like I'd be in any position to change it. The character arc complaint is an issue I've had with the original story. It's less in your face in the anime, but leveling up mechanic shouldn't be the only kind of character progression there is, especially when there are other topics like trauma that are going on.
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