Hetakoi said: @Tennouji_ The sketch of Kazusa in disguise is part of her True End CG or her Normal End CG ? (because technically both are coda) ++++++++++ OK, pretty much answered the question by myself by rewatching the endings from each route.It's from her TE :) (unless ofc I'm missing something) Uhh... No, She already had that disguise when it's still in the "common route" of Coda. Stop assuming things just from the Ending videos... >_> |
kaimaxDec 19, 2013 2:18 AM
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| Ok, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Thank you for clearing things up kaimax. |
| If this source is plausible, then I'm f*cking glad they are going to adapt Kazusa TE. |
| Dies Irae! :) |
| Apparently for some reason people want Kazusa's TE adapted haha. I guess people love their melodrama. I'd feel bad if no one got to enjoy Haruki's delicious tears. Hopefully someone will translate that part and put it on youtube. |
hyperknees91Dec 19, 2013 5:02 AM
| I love those kind of TE so that's why I want to see it adapted, I don't like the Setsuna TE at all. Even Kazusa NE is alright. I just want to see drama that moves me to tears. |
| Dies Irae! :) |
| I expected the drama to move me in Kazusa's TE but it utterly failed to because of how unlikable and unsympathetic our main trio had become at that point. The only actual pain I felt was for the people around them then for the main characters themselves. Kind of ironic in a sense. Now if that's what the writers were going for, then cheers for them. Though even still, the melodrama which was introduced was poor melodrama. I feel like the writer's bias for Setsuna really became too much of a factor in this route. So he had to make sure to make Haruki and Kazusa appear as if they were the scum of the earth and even convince themselves that they were...which they honestly really didn't need to do. The whole route just felt incredibly insincere and forced. Quite honestly like Tennouji and I discussed. Even the side routes felt better written. This is why Kazusa's TE = Doomsday and Setsuna's TE = Paradise. It's kind of silly given that the game was relatively mature otherwise. Uwaki route almost made me cry alright...from laughing so hard at the end haha. |
hyperknees91Dec 19, 2013 6:42 AM
kaimax said: Uhh... No, She already had that disguise when it's still in the "common route" of Coda. Stop assuming things just from the Ending videos... >_> Yep. The sketch isn't from any certain CG and Kazusa's commonly disguised on Coda so yeah, still not yet confirmed which Coda ending route will be adapted. |
 |
| Lawl at your quote Tennouji... It reminds me of the scene where he said there was absolutely nothing good about Kazusa except for her piano playing. It's like...this is seriously going to happen regardless isn't it? I guess it was the scene that made Haruki realize logic is pointless in matters of romance, but still it was kind of painful to even listen to. So yeah Haruki technically does have shit taste, but at least he admits it. I mean anyone who would actually go out with Kazusa has shit tastes but yeah. |
hyperknees91Dec 19, 2013 8:17 AM
| God I can't take reading the episode discussions anymore as it seems that people are too thick-headed or I don't know... They can't even read into the characters personalities and all that hate for Setsuna... ooooohhh how I feel for her even if she isn't real... She's already bashed in the VN and anime and she's also getting bashed here? I mean really... Haruki though I feel no sympathy whatsoever as I love to hate him... |
LyvsDec 22, 2013 7:49 AM
| It's just shippers Lyvs, they don't put any thought into the characters themselves. They just see any interference to their possible ship and BAM...all their hate. I might hate Kazusa and Haruki, but in this season I feel like all of them are pretty sympathetic....well ok Haruki goes too far at the end, but other than that I can't say I disliked any of them at this point. Anyone who hates Setsuna by the end of Coda is seriously a shallow-minded person though. |
| Fucking shippers, they only care about the girl/guy they like, and trash talk the "opposition". |
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| But like what kaimax said on the discussion thread, I can't wait for CC adaptation then Kazusa fans(Those who are only watching the anime) getting raged because Kazusa is 99% absent on CC. |
|
| lol |
| Dies Irae! :) |
meowykid said: As a long time lurker, I just have to say, how the fuck can anyone hate Setsuna after reading Coda? I mean, I fucking love Kazusa, she is my favorite, but Setsuna..She is..way too pure. too naive. too selfless. You can't hate someone that thinks their a bad girlfriend when you cheat on them..they believe anything you say..they trust you so much. The real dick is Haruki, for not properly choosing between Setsuna and Kazusa. He should have properly broken up with Setsuna if he decided to go with Kazusa, instead of lying to her and waiting so long to admit it. If he chose Setsuna, he should have avoided contact with Kazusa instead. Pretty much. Though Kazusa also became a fucking whore in Coda so unfortunately I have to say that a lot of the blame falls on her there too. Haruki's main fault is that he half-asses everything until the very end (and even then he is pretty half-assed). It's ok to be indecisive because hey that's human...but once you make a decision don't fucking waver jeesus. I can't really blame him for being indecisive about Setsuna and Kazusa though, because they are both equally to blame for falling in love with a guy who they know full well who is indecisive. So it's kinda like, well I don't feel bad for you guys because you two won't give up said dumbass. Lawl a K_boards flow chart....oh Haruki you spectacular bastard. |
hyperknees91Dec 23, 2013 5:13 PM
| I don't see anything to like in Kazusa actually. She's not even as interesting as Setsuna or Haruki like you just explained. I could forgive her faults if at the very least I found her mildly compelling but yeah. As it stands she's just a character with an overwhelming amount of negative traits with relatively no positive traits. Unlike Haruki and Setsuna where as they have a ton of negative, at least it's somewhat balanced for their positive. You know in a sense...Kazusa is the antagonist haha. Also I never thought WA2 was about Kazusa vs Setsuna. That's kind of hard when Kazusa is absent for the majority of the game. And I agree with you on WA2's true message. Also does anyone think Takeya is gay for Haruki, or is that just me? Either that or he secretely hardcore idolizes him like Tomo does to Setsuna. Maybe you can perhaps explain him to me K_board as he's a character I never figured out. |
| Yeah CC was a pretty weak conclusion. I'd argue that every ending is actually weak, but hey the one benefit of Setsuna TE is that the VN has such a depressing/stressful approach to everything that its kind of a relief to the players to see things end well. Like I said, the only realistic ending is cheater route. The Kazusa TE has the exact opposite problem of Setsuna's TE in that it tries too hard to make everything depressing and dramatic. And yeah it was a huge mistake to leave out Kazusa for the majority of the game. And a huge mistake to leave out Setsuna for the majority of Coda. Not sure what the hell the writer was thinking but I think he really missed his opportunity to make something special. |
| Yeah...that's kind of how I feel. I do feel like Kazusa's TE works the best in terms of theme's your right. The problem I had with it was the execution was very poorly done. I wouldn't have minded if the same solutions happened in it, if they had at least toned down the amount of drama and made it seem more sincere. Unfortunately it does also carry a bit of a fantasy element with Setsuna being so forgiving of him. Now I praise her to death for that but...it's a bit much to believe. |
| Yeah I think we can all agree that the S-TE is too happy go lucky and fairy tail like. It's completely unbelievable, but I guess we can say that perhaps Setsuna knows how to manipulate their emotions so well if all the right cards are in place that she can create such a scenario...yeah just kidding. I think it's highly rated because...I have no idea...I think its because people find it depressing and it appeals to people's masochistic side. The whole point of CC is that it is pointless because no matter what Haruki will come to the same conclusion as IC. So yeah...you got me there. |
| I'm surprised you say that...because honestly I came to the same conclusion. Is CC even an effective part of the story? Couldn't they have just left it all out and given you an abridged version of the events and gone straight to Coda? Despite being the longest part of the story, it quite honestly felt like a supreme waste of time. The only point of the CC part...is to make you feel bad for Setsuna in Coda and that's it. Otherwise they could have just written around it. |
| So basically the whole VN is spent building up....for something that was already built up in IC. They could have easily done Setsuna's character in Coda. You know..if they didn't leave her out of the whole thing almost. |
| Yeah I've argued that before. It's a story that actually is hurt because its a VN. It basically makes it seem like most of the build up is meaningless because Haruki's choice at the end is completely random and decided by the player rather than his own will. It makes it seem like he has no soul. |
| Yeah it doesn't always hurt because the only route you take the MC seriously is the true route...which WA2 doesn't have. Oh well.. |
| So question. Most people seem to write off Setsuna as a bitch in their summaries. A deceptive angel as you would call it. And while this is somewhat true, is that really the case? I mean she gets nothing out of handling the side heroine routes as maturely as she did, is she really just manipulating there as well? Especially when she decided to go see the play in Chiaki's route even knowing that that was the last time she and Haruki would spend time together. So really, is she just that person that's letting everyone defend her because of how much of an angel she appears to be? |
zombiemojo said: hyperknees91 said: So question. Most people seem to write off Setsuna as a bitch in their summaries. A deceptive angel as you would call it. And while this is somewhat true, is that really the case? I mean she gets nothing out of handling the side heroine routes as maturely as she did, is she really just manipulating there as well? Especially when she decided to go see the play in Chiaki's route even knowing that that was the last time she and Haruki would spend time together. So really, is she just that person that's letting everyone defend her because of how much of an angel she appears to be? agree, I feel setsuma is so complicated after playing CC which can't be described just as few words Whoa whoa, a few words? I thought I devoted ~9.6k works as to why she was a deceptive character. Don't get me wrong, I love her character; she's manipulative, and she realizes it -- she prioritizes her own happiness, but she also gives into allowing her friends to be happy at times. She's as stated, 'the absolute most complex characters in the series.' I don't know if she handled Chiaki's route that well. Remember why Kazusa wanted to return to Japan? She did so for the sake of conveying her feelings to Haruki via the piano. He wanted to hear her play. During high school, during that year, that's all she did when she wanted to talk to him; she played back, and he played the guitar back, it was their method of communication. In Coda, when she finally returns to Japan, she wanted above all else to tell Haruki her feelings. But she's Kazusa, she can't quite do that verbally and genuinely, she has to do it the only means that she knows how, the only means in which she's good at -- the piano. During her normal route, when Setsuna hears her performance, she leaves midway through -- she already knew before the end, that from her performance, that she'd never truly win Haruki. That Haruki would absolutely always love her more than she would her. During Chiaki's play, something similar happened. She observed her feelings, her acting -- did she truly understand the group dynamics? Could she act out each character to the fullest? When Setsuna allowed Haruki the pairing, it's presumed that Chiaki's genuine feelings were conveyed -- that Setsuna could not win that battle. So, she stopped fighting. And she's not quite a 'bitch', she's just human. She cares about her friends -- she stopped Kazusa from amending the situation during her true route [by the only means that she knew how: breaking her hand], and in each instance in which she does lose, she gives up for the most part [Kazusa's true, she knows that she cannot win; same with the side heroines -- in Kazusa's true, she gives up on the pairing, but like all the other routes, never her love for Haruki]. At the same time, she's like Nadeko; she realizes that those around her see a certain image of her, and she plays that to the fullest. She doesn't condemn Haruki and Kazusa, and that results in them spending half a decade in guilt, not being able to talk to each other; she has the support of every side character, because she never quite tells them that it's a 'personal' issue between the three of them [if not for Setsuna, Haruki would not have had to bereave all those relationships in Coda; he would also not have to cause Io so much grief in the other routes]. As much as she's manipulative, she's innocent. She's manipulative without realizing it at times; while at other times, she's fully understanding of her position. She's not exactly the most likable character to the general audience, but she's by far the most complex. |
 |
| I wasn't speaking of your summary mdz, I think you did a fair job conveying everyone. I'm talking about the majority of other people who write reviews or comment negatively about her. I agree she is easily the most complex. There's a possibility that Setsuna really just needs to hear it from Haruki with determination that he needs to let her go, otherwise she won't be convinced. I mean during one scene in CC she did ask him when he would set her free. So it's possible that she's just too cowardly to admit the outcome on her own, while Haruki is the same for not allowing the outcome to come about. Also can you explain the memory loss scenes to me mdz? I wrote that off as her being overdramatic, but it's possible that she had so much pain build up that she was starting to lose it. Wasn't too sure how I should interpret that scene. |
hyperknees91 said: I wasn't speaking of your summary mdz, I think you did a fair job conveying everyone. I'm talking about the majority of other people who write reviews or comment negatively about her. I agree she is easily the most complex. There's a possibility that Setsuna really just needs to hear it from Haruki with determination that he needs to let her go, otherwise she won't be convinced. I mean during one scene in CC she did ask him when he would set her free. So it's possible that she's just too cowardly to admit the outcome on her own, while Haruki is the same for not allowing the outcome to come about. Also can you explain the memory loss scenes to me mdz? I wrote that off as her being overdramatic, but it's possible that she had so much pain build up that she was starting to lose it. Wasn't too sure how I should interpret that scene. Oh, my mistake =p. I'm just used to people incessantly going 'you're writing Setsuna off as a manipulative character' and the like, when I incessantly mention that she doesn't always mean to be. I assumed that her 'memory loss' wasn't real. She didn't want to hear about it, because she'll forget it -- that's what she said. I don't think that she truly did though. If the work doesn't mention it again, then it's probably not significant enough to be considered 'real', if that makes sense [if a character is diagnosed with cancer, then the novel's going to end with more developments on the cancer since it's important; the same goes for something as severe as memory loss]. |
|
| Ah I figured as much. It's just the one scene where she wrote a message on a cellphone and then goes "Did I actually write this?" kind of confused me on that note. |
hyperknees91 said: Ah I figured as much. It's just the one scene where she wrote a message on a cellphone and then goes "Did I actually write this?" kind of confused me on that note. It could have been her attempting to lose her mind [caught up in emotions, not sure of anything; what she wants to do, what she should do]. She may have looked at the message and go, 'Did I really do something this selfish' or 'this nonsensical?', etc. She probably didn't truly lose her memories though. |
mdzJan 3, 2014 11:07 AM
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| That's kind of how I looked at it. The author had this thing to make Kazusa's true end look as dramatic as humanly possible so I guess he just wanted to add another point to it. |
hyperknees91 said: That's kind of how I looked at it. The author had this thing to make Kazusa's true end look as dramatic as humanly possible so I guess he just wanted to add another point to it. I actually thought he made her end as dramatically realistic as possible -- no one exactly went insane; no killings, no psychopathic confessions. Just a simple, matter-of-fact conclusion. |
|
| It was pretty over the top regardless. A stark contrast from the rest of the endings. Hence why I prefer the Uwaki route for being more toned down but having more effective dramatic scenes if you ask me. |
Hetakoi said: @Rei_12 You are one of many that haven't read the novel.Hell, I'm like you so I can feel you when u say you are wondering about the VN's true end.To answer your question, the final part of the VN (known as coda) has no definite TE.Instead it offers 3 possible routes for the player to choose.These are: a)[Setsuna True End] You can watch it here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIPHCmX4xBM In a few words,Haruki ends up with Setsuna and Kazusa falls out of love with Haruki allowing her to continue being best friends with them.She plays the piano at their wedding ceremony and they all live happily ever after.In my opinion the weakest ending from the list.Too idealistic and with a somewhat forced resolution to the triangle's relationships.(Setsuna fans will probably disagree) b)[Kazusa True End] You can watch it here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGWvF8TyMew Here, Haruki enters into an affair with Kazusa and as the story progresses he decides to break up with Setsuna choosing Kazusa over her.But it ain't a simple choice since everyone surrounding him advises him against it.Haruki "shows the finger" to all. He is determined to go to all lengths in order to keep what he and Kazusa have.He quits his job, cuts ties with his friends, leaves Japan and rides into the sunset with Kazusa.The two live happily ever after abroad.In the epilogue, Setsuna sings "Powder Snow" for them.As a "Kazusa fan" I find this ending the most liberating, but my opinion is totally biased.Some may claim that this route is too grand and excessive with logic being in the back seat, but it's a love conquers all conclusion.And it's the only one that (in my opinion) addresses the issue of "Todokanai Koi" making it the best fit as a conclusion to the love triangle. c)[Kazusa Normal End, also known as cheating route among the fans] You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfgigpXRbqo A very heartbreaking and slightly depressing route no matter what girl you are routing for.The pain Kazusa,Haruki and Setsuna (in that order) experience in this route easily tops all their ordeal in IC/CC.The conclusion given is bittersweet and requires a certain amount of emotional maturity for the viewer to accept it.Anyway, Haruki once again enters into an affair with Kazusa.For as long as it lasts they make memories together (the CG in this route are amazing with a very feminine and mellow Kazusa).People that find out about them create all sorts of drama.Little by little, Haruki and Kazusa get overwhelmed by guilt and break up. Or to be more specific, Kazusa is the one to call things off.While Haruki wants to stay with her, Kazusa sacrifices herself for the sake of Setsuna (she doesn't want to betray her anymore) and Haruki (she claims that she is breaking him).Haruki returns to Setsuna who takes him back and Kazusa lets go of Haruki's hand never to meet him again.In my opinion, Kazusa NE is a repetition of the events in IC on a greater scale (more sex,more drama).In the end everything remains a "Todokanai Koi" As stated in the beginning of my post there is no official TE to WA2.Every player/viewer is entitled to his own opinion.For me it's: K-TE >> K-NE > S-TE @hyperknees91 I'm curious as to what made you take an 180 turn when it comes to liking Kazusa.Could you elaborate with examples from the VN that made you change your mind? I have an important question about it. So, according to your text, in "Kazusa Normal Ending" Setsuna takes Haruki back.. I mean... they stay together and they marry? If that is true, two endings end up with Haruki and Setsuna having a relationship together, right? Anyway, the affair with Kazusa, if I understood, is taking place while relationship between Kazusa and Haruki still exists. |
| Romantic and lonely wolf. Deep stories are my lifeblood. |
| @xFolkvangr Short Answer: Yes, Haruki is seeing Kazusa while officially being in a relationship with Setsuna.That's what an "affair" is by definition. No, Haruki and Setsuna don't get married in Kazusa NE. They do end up together though (months after the events of CODA) as shown in Extra Chapter (aka the extra material added to the VN's content when it got ported to PS consoles). And yes, the only route involving the original heroines where Haruki ends up with Kazusa is Kazusa's TE. The final scene in Kazusa NE shows Setsuna embracing Haruki and the following lines are exchanged: H > I love you the most in the world S > Liar H > Only partially |
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