To the people who felt cheated about the ending

Aug 23, 2013 11:59 AM

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Feb 2012

1678

Seems people don't read through threads anymore as I constantly still see posts about how the last 3-5 minutes of the show left a bad taste in their mouth or how they felt like the whole show was for nothing. It could also be that the episode 3 discussion thread has too many pages to go through for most people, so I'll post this here as a thread of it's own for those people.

I usually wouldn't care, but I feel sorry after seeing so many posts lolol.

Bloodcalibur said:
These two posts pretty much sum it all up:

Hakunamatataa said:
There are important conclusions derived from the new information brought by Silaqui. Of course, we already knew they end up together, given other comments by the author and that it is evident per se. But this makes it even clearer.
After they came back to be "normal siblings", Kyousuke kisses Kirino on the lips (on cheek in anime, which is false), Kirino says "what are you doing?" and that they're "normal siblings" and Kyousuke says that there's no problem doing that if they are "normal siblings". So Kyousuke is saying it is normal that they kiss on lips even if they're "normal siblings". So normal siblings my ass. They can consider themselves normal siblings, but if that means they can kiss (on lips), I don't see a problem for their romance. So I'm happy.

Just for saying other facts...
-The fact that Kirino asks Kyousuke to buy her a ring (when they've come back to be "normal siblings", at the same time when he kisses her again), which was not included in anime (and somehow I had forgotten), is very very suggestive too.
-Kyousuke, in the end, says, at least in the LN, that all the story has been "a life counseling which could happen between any siblings, but there was a special love story inside", and since the life counseling is continuing, as Kirino requests at the end... love story continues. Even the athor says, regarding to that upcoming life counseling, that "the story ends with the siblings having a shared secret" (if you are thinking that secret refers to the romantic relationship they had for a while and supposedly ended, that's incorrect, since that wasn't a secret - all their friends knew it).

Shit, if only Dengeki Bunko had allowed the author to write what he wanted, we wouldn't have to deal with ambiguity. But since the author has expressed what this ambiguity means -"complete Kirino ending"-, no problem.

Incest FTW!

-------------------------------------
I'm impatient. Who will be the next (retarded) one who says that Kyousuke ended up with nobody?

OwaruSekai said:
First of all, the actual source is http://d.hatena.ne.jp/thk/20130817.
Also covered by:
http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-18109.html
http://jin115.com/archives/51968504.html

Basically there was an advanced screening of the finale in Chiba and a Q&A session took place with the anime staff and the author of the LN. The "guests" were discussing among themselves the changes and impressions of the last 3 OVAs compared to the LN.

So the Chairman(?) of Aniplex Yuma asked Fushimi (The author of the LN): What was your impression of episode 16?

To which Fushimi replied:

Regarding episode 16 overall I'm pretty satisfied, BUT I HAVE 2 COMPLAINTS: from a personal perspective THE LAST KISS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE LIPS. (You can look at the source I posted, that sentence is written in FUCKING HUGEASS RED LETTERS for extra emphasis.)

Fushimi continues: The second point, as I have been constantly telling the director - is that Kirino's and Manam'si hairstyle should have been true to the source material. (Probably a symbol of "a new beginning", but that's just my "interpretation")

Kashiwada (Aniplex producer) responds:

During that scene they were already back to being normal siblings, that's why (the kiss was) on the cheek. The line was drawn from Kirino's perspective.

Then an undisclosed "word exchange" breaks out between Miki Kazuma (the LN editor) and Kashiwada.

Then vaguely-

Miki proceeds: so yeah, even internally there were discussions (lit: pros and cons).

Yuma "answers": No, these discussions are worthless/meaningless, really worthless/meaningless. THEN FORCEFULLY CUTS OFF THE WHOLE CONVERSATION. (Afraid of Kashiwada?)

So basically to sum up what happened here:

The anime staff are forcing a "back to normal" interpretation, Kashiwada is saying that the KISS HAS to be on the cheek.

While the LN author is complaining how it was handled and that it was supposed to be a kiss on the lips. Whether the author's intention was expressed to the anime staff beforehand is unclear. (But if you read the whole interview, it's pretty obvious that it was and Aniplex forced their shitty interpretation on us because of their moral faggotry.

The author has explicitly stated that this was a COMPLETE KIRINO ENDING (in an older interview), and put extra emphasis and even dared to raise a voice of opposition (Much less in a Japanese society? How dares he? Right?). He put emphasis on the placement of the kiss for a reason. Not because he thought that imaginary saliva residue on his heroine's cheek made her look weird. It was because the kiss ON THE LIPS was a symbol, a symbol of things to come and a last, if somewhat roundabout, stand on artistic integrity.

So I would call this "phenomenon" - DOUBLE CENSORSHIP. Implied censorship on 電気文庫 (Denki Bunko - LN publisher) side (as the author has stated in a different interview that "it's hard to write such a "direct" incest story/ending in DenkiBunko) and obvious, disrespectful censorship on Aniplex's side.

What we have here ladies and gentleman is a fucking public rape of artistic integrity by means of pushing us into their moral "sandbox" where they feel safe, cozy and can simmer in their own ignorance.

I look at the ending as exactly what the author hinted at, which is very blatant and he even went out of his way on interviews to further directly explain it. The ending is a full-Kirino ending, he just couldn't openly show it, relax people.

Hope that makes you all feel better <3.

"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"

Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.

Aug 23, 2013 12:02 PM

gamer2710

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Aug 2012

3305

That's the thing though--regardless of what the author's intents were, the ending we saw is the ending we get for the anime. It's not fair to judge anything other than the content of the show.

This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion.

Aug 23, 2013 12:04 PM

Bloodcalibur

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Feb 2012

1678

gamer2710 said:
That's the thing though--regardless of what the author's intents were, the ending we saw is the ending we get for the anime.

And the Novel. It doesn't really matter to me though, the hints in both were pretty blatant (unless you're a little kid who needs every thing spoonfed to him in order for it to be what it is), especially when backed with the author's direct words concerning those hints. It isn't at all wrong to assume their romance continues, it just couldn't be shown.

In fact, it's extremely rare to see that much effort put into putting out blatant hints out in the open like that by an author in order to get around censorship to get his point across. I felt it even before looking it all up, it almost made the ending feel weird with all that effort put into the clues being shoved in your face.

BloodcaliburAug 23, 2013 12:07 PM

"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"

Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.

Aug 23, 2013 12:10 PM

gamer2710

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Aug 2012

3305

If he needed clues to shove in our face, that just proves that the actual explicit ending you see with your own eyes was destined for failure. Thank you, censorship laws.

This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion.

Aug 23, 2013 12:18 PM

Bloodcalibur

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Feb 2012

1678

gamer2710 said:
If he needed clues to shove in our face, that just proves that the actual explicit ending you see with your own eyes was destined for failure. Thank you, censorship laws.

It's not a law, it's just the kind of content the editors and publishers weren't comfortable in publicly putting forth. There are other shows/movies that go full on incest but the target audience for Oreimo and it's popularity level put today's societal pressures on it. The ending he intended is still there, he just had to show it in a roundabout way.

"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"

Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.

Aug 23, 2013 12:40 PM

Goryo

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Aug 2012

2935

Bloodcalibur said:
but the target audience for Oreimo and it's popularity level put today's societal pressures on it.

So you're saying the author intended for this series to be targeted at underage individuals, yet was most likely aware that the media wouldn't allow such blatantly "wrong" exhibitions to be shown to such an audience?

How can you defend this show? It's quite obvious that the author sacrificed his intended story for the sake of a larger audience (I.E. more money)

If he really wanted a true ending, he wouldn't have agreed to any contracts with publishers that stipulated "no true incest lulz".

كنت تهدر وقتك عن طريق ترجمة هذه.

mattbenz99 said:
Christians and Satanists are technically the same thing

Aug 23, 2013 12:44 PM

gamer2710

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Aug 2012

3305

Goryo said:

Bloodcalibur said:
but the target audience for Oreimo and it's popularity level put today's societal pressures on it.

This wouldn't even be a problem in the first place if one of these were true.

1) If the target audience is, as was stated, underage, then the author wouldn't have wanted an incest ending in the first place. If he did, he must be really fucking stupid.

2) As Goryo stated, he would've had the balls to say "no" to the publishers.

This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion.

Aug 23, 2013 1:16 PM

Bloodcalibur

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Feb 2012

1678

You guys are arguing a man shouldn't try to extract as much financial success from his 5-year project in the same way fans of boxing complain about fighters taking fights that sell more seats instead of the more dangerous opponent but isn't as popular of a matchup.

I have my sense of honor, especially with the things that I do in life, but at the same time I can't blame someone else for making, what seemed to him at the time, the more financially successful decision.

I'm not even here to defend the show or the author, but rather, pointing out potential hypocrisies when I see em.

"I will close my eyes and let the darkness be the light that guides me through the path of chaos"

Call me the Jelly Factory. I'm the world's largest producer of jelly.

Aug 23, 2013 1:29 PM

tsudecimo

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Dec 2012

24355

I think this anime/story is a piece of shit and all but I really get annoyed when people bitch or insult the author. Like really, how ignorant can you be, you don't know the author true feelings or if he was happy with this ending or the actual ending he had in his mind. The author doesn't have total control over his work, he can't just say ''fuck it, I'm gonna write this thing however the fuck I want, the editor and the publishers can suck my dick'' he simply can't, he has to compromise on certain stuff.

Also keep in mind that this is his job, it's not just a hobby, so if stuff like adding harem elements into the story, will benefit him financially he will do it. No need for hypocrisy.

Aug 23, 2013 2:29 PM

#10

gamer2710

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Aug 2012

3305

Again, the author's intent still has no bearing on how I judged the ending. The author can be a big troll, a sellout, or a man who ultimately made the wise choice for all I care--it still doesn't change my judgement, that the ending was garbage.

This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion.

Aug 23, 2013 11:44 PM

#11

Zapredon

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Aug 2008

4594

I complain about the ending because it incest ending and incest are disgusting. Period.

But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion.

http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30

It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist.

Aug 23, 2013 11:47 PM

#12

Reverb_Shock

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Sep 2012

831

This sounds like a disappointed fan trying to convince himself that he got the ending he wanted.

The ending shows Kyousuke getting no one in the novel and the anime and that's all that matters.

Sep 1, 2013 4:57 AM

#13

IchigoRadiance

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Jan 2013

And your post sounds like somebody who either

A. wants to be mad, and thinks the author is at fault.

B. possibly leading to a. That Kyousuke didn't pick the girl you wanted, and in the end, due to censorship problems had to break up with his sister.

It is clear the author wanted to keep Kirino and Kyousuke and kept the ending ambiguous, even saying that the kiss at the end was supposed to be on the lips. The hints show that he tried getting as much past the radar as he could for because his intended ending was for Kyousuke and Kirino to mend their relationship and to be in a relationship with each other. If Kyousuke chose another girl, Kirino would still be in love with Kyousuke and their relationship would go back to the way it was before. The fact that Kirino doesn't act like she got dumped, is because she never was. Kyousuke and Kirino are still secretly dating each other, they won't date anybody else. Neither are alone, even if they didn't date anybody else, because at the end of the day, Kyousuke loves Kirino more than anybody else.

And if he loves one girl more than any other girl, then by dating any other girl, he would be settling. Some fans may feel that him choosing to officially break up with his sister to avoid problems, and that despite this, their bond has stayed as strong as ever, and he is just as happy being with Kirino even if he wasn't dating her to be a bad ending. They want to see him date another girl, but that wouldn't be love.

I know the feeling, there's one girl I love, and I would rather be alone than with anybody else. All other relationships would feel shallow. And an ending where Kyousuke after coming to realize that he loved Kirino more than he could love anybody else, started dating, would feel shallow.

So the ending was flawed, but that wasn't the author's fault.

To the people that fail to realize. There is a law in Japan that bans certain topics from being published in an all-ages format. Most entertainment, even if it has a rating, is either all-ages or adult. In america, you have to be 17 to buy M rated games, but can be any age to buy a T rated or E rated game, that is, if the store enforces such rules. Otherwise, they may even sell M rated games to little kids. This means that at most, T and down is considered "all-ages" to us. Then there is the Ao rating. This is for games, most books don't really have ratings, and other entertainment has different rating systems. In Japan, only adult publications need identification. Because of this, politicians fear that little kids will get material meant for older teens. Essentially it's like American politicians worrying about little kids playing M rated games such as GTA. But rather then making sure that content bought, is appropriate for each age group or Idk, letting parents do their job, the Japanese government has instead decided to keep certain topics outside of the all-ages range or ratings at all. Oreimo would have had to been sold as an adult novel had it kept the intended rating, and the author may have needed to find a new publisher.

Some people think that trying to keep the target audience he had, that he was greedy. But I don't think they completely understand how little exposure his book would have gotten being sold alongside porn. Imagine in america, when was the last time you stepped into an adult section at a video store or book store? Did they even have one. I figure they are a bit more prominent in Japan, but I wouldn't bet on such a book doing well there. SO let's say you wrote a book, would you market it to A. the largest group most likely to buy your book, or B. the smaller niche group that would buy a non-pornographic book in an adult section. The author had a choice, he could either tone down his story so it could be published at the all-ages 17 and down level, or he could keep the content and starve for the next while since his book would bomb. He isn't the only one to do something like this. In america, movies are frequently toned down to keep the pg-13 rating rather than getting an R rated movie. Videogames have content cut to keep the rating down, usually for a T (of our rating and the japanese equivalent.) as opposed to an M (our rating and the japanese equivalent), but sometimes it's to get an M rating since Ao rated games don't get published. A wider audience doesn't designate greed. You may want to feel special by being part of a niche but Oreimo is a fairly popular series. Get over it. He's got at least one mouth to feed and bills to pay.

If there is anything to get angry about it is the law and publishing standards that prevented Oreimo from getting the ending it deserved, not the author. If you want to get angry, get angry at the japanese politicians. I would advise against it though, because we are not japanese and are unlikely to influence a foreign government. Besides getting angry wouldn't solve anything.

"There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as moral indignation, which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue."
— Erich Fromm

Sep 1, 2013 9:54 AM

#14

hyperknees91

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Aug 2008

2139

Anyone who can read between the lines can see that their relationship is still going on. Just because the author had to be a little subtle about it doesn't change that. If you have to have everything pointed out for you then I can imagine you didn't enjoy the ending too much (or plenty of stories).

Oreimo isn't like Yosuga no Sora where it was softcore porn or Koisora which was inherently more mature in the first place. As such it had to be a little less risque with this kind of situation.

Sep 1, 2013 2:35 PM

#15

Sov

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Apr 2013

So much bad taste.
If You guys really want other ending just buy a game and play the route You really want to see.
Im perfectly fine with the way they ended it, was kinda opting for something more moe stuff but it's cool nonethenless. Maybe cause it's a Kirino ending.
Also -> yeah, give haganai 3 pls

SovSep 2, 2013 2:17 AM

Sep 3, 2013 2:14 AM

#16

Saga_Atreides

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Aug 2013

I agree with pretty much everything. I love Oreimo. I wouldn't say the ending was anywhere near perfect, but I understand the reasons it ended the way it did. The reason(s) of the majority of people that are upset about it are usually one or more of the following:

Sep 6, 2013 7:33 AM

#17

Sov

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Apr 2013

Saga_Atreides said:

2)Kirino Won- I kind of understand people that are upset because their favorite girl didn't get chosen. I really get that, it's happened to me with other anime (namely Kanon)

Plz tell me that girl is Nayuki :)!

SovSep 7, 2013 12:37 PM

Mar 11, 2014 12:00 PM

#18

ittou_shura

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Aug 2013

733

Saga_Atreides said:
I agree with pretty much everything. I love Oreimo. I wouldn't say the ending was anywhere near perfect, but I understand the reasons it ended the way it did. The reason(s) of the majority of people that are upset about it are usually one or more of the following:

It pissed off many fans because they weren't looking at the bigger picture they were just concerned with which pairing will happen in the end. They didn't realise the complexities of the story and relationships. I for one, thought the ending was perfect. In fact, so perfect that I'm positively certain no amount of criticism would change my view on that. Thing I love about OreImo is how realistically the relationships are portrayed. Up until last few minutes of ending I was thinking hmm this is all very romantic and nice but something is missing. It feels too convenient. And when the real ending was revealed I was very satisfied. I can't believe everyone wanted such a cliche ending devoid of any kind of logic or realism.

Nov 20, 2015 1:54 PM

#19

ExoticBankai

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Jul 2015

1640

Thanks a lot, i was really disappointed by that ending, but now i get it^^

Nov 22, 2015 9:36 PM

#20

Benienma

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Jul 2015

2647

Despite anything to do with the manga/light novels or intentions of the creator, it's still a very good way to end this series, and it seems to me like people are just upset that the show went the incest and then split them up still. But honestly despite the lack of satisfying romance at the end, I have so much respect for this ending. It's very mature and realistic to how they would likely have to handle the situation in a real life setting. Sure it's not perfect, but it's definitely a great fit for the anime.

Jan 16, 2017 3:01 AM

#21

Rayn3698

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Jun 2011

821

Honestly the only reason people disliked this ending was because of their personal views against incest, which is understandable and yet extremely biased.

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To the people who felt cheated about the ending

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