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| Correct me if i'm wrong but did this episode imply that Pinion hooked up with the big tit Pirate if she wanted to hook up with him, when she was talking with her girls? |
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| Not sure how I feel about the introduction of the giant cult of squid-like hooded people (or at least I thought they looked like squid-headed people in their cloaks). The cult group feels kind of strange and out of place, so I hope it's incorporated better in the next two episodes. However, I did like that they incorporated some elements from earlier on in the series (the pirates) so that the two pieces of the show feel a little more coherent. Ledo's internal conflict felt really off in this episode. I felt like there were sudden swings all over the place and he seemed either dispassionate or over-dramatic at varying points in time in response to Kugel and the situation at hand. Overall, I didn't really care for this episode, unfortunately. |
Fai said: If we take out the RELIGION part, everything else is identical to what we know about Alliance. tl;dr thi sis the show's way of SHOWING us how alliance lives, without bringing alliance to us. Not really sure about that. We don't know much about life in space outside of military, and we don't know the ruling structure. While the "totalitarian" is prolly at least mostly true, we can't say if it's autocratic or not. |
| I want Rambo in a mecha-suit with a laser-chainsaw gun that fires nuclear warheads, fighting the love-child of Predator, Alien, a group of Bangladeshi terrorists, and Satan. (Actually that would be a pretty sick show) - StopDropAndBowl |
Rinji- said: Hybridbloodszak said: So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy. That's a fallacy that communist idealists cling to. It's impossible to create a financial equality. Even in strong communist systems there's always "the have and the have nots". There is always need for grunts to pick up garbage, clean the sewers, plow the fields, shovel cowshit, or *insert any shitty job here*. Then the leadership live in luxury with servants while the peons live in shacks. |
Wordsmith said: Fai said: If we take out the RELIGION part, everything else is identical to what we know about Alliance. tl;dr thi sis the show's way of SHOWING us how alliance lives, without bringing alliance to us. Not really sure about that. We don't know much about life in space outside of military, and we don't know the ruling structure. While the "totalitarian" is prolly at least mostly true, we can't say if it's autocratic or not. There's no "outside military" In the alliance. its a Spartan type lifestyle - you serve in military and you supposedly get the right to procreate. SO EVERYONE is a soldier. Cirris said: Rinji- said: Hybridbloodszak said: So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy. That's a fallacy that communist idealists cling to. It's impossible to create a financial equality. Even in strong communist systems there's always "the have and the have nots". There is always need for grunts to pick up garbage, clean the sewers, plow the fields, shovel cowshit, or *insert any shitty job here*. Then the leadership live in luxury with servants while the peons live in shacks. That still doe snot change the fact that ideologically it doe snot fit. As for communism - yes, on its own it does not work, but there are quire a few good insights in it. There's a reason on why a majority of world currently uses a version of hybrid capitalism - with certain ideas of socialism having been ported over into capitalism(ie: government planning, etc) |
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Cirris said: Rinji- said: Hybridbloodszak said: So Kugel starts a cult/communist society? Happiness for the strong is happiness for you. Bull haha Hardly a communist society, since communism equals financial equality, that seemed more like a hierarchy. That's a fallacy that communist idealists cling to. It's impossible to create a financial equality. Even in strong communist systems there's always "the have and the have nots". There is always need for grunts to pick up garbage, clean the sewers, plow the fields, shovel cowshit, or *insert any shitty job here*. Then the leadership live in luxury with servants while the peons live in shacks. How is that a fallacy? An ideal does not necessarily equate to being fallacious. In respect to the structure of an argument, a fallacy merely recognizes the structure of the argument along with one or multiple premises being false. To assert "it is impossible to create a financial equality" is actually a fallacy since it is referring to a matter of fact about the world. The premise does not contain logically contradictory predicates and is entirely possible, whether it is plausible is another issue entirely. Personally I do not have a stance on whether or not it is plausible in the future, but I can still maintain that ideal but still suspend judgment until such a society is executed. Also, pointing to examples of a totalitarian communist society does not logically dismiss the possibility of libertarian communist societies. Edit: Your argument specifically is an argument from ignorance, considering the impossibility of such a society is not within your epistemic reach. That is not to say that it will happen, I merely stating it is rational to suspend judgement in regard to it, instead of your approach of denying the possibility entirely. |
Takuan_Soho said: So the Alliance is a pure fascist state, not much surprise there, though it is depressing. Had hoped for a bit more complexity than "becoming what you hate". Sigh. Should have know better than to expect something from this show, why should this episode be different from the others. Same thoughts. After EP9 I was like, are they actually going to pull this off? And I just had this bad feeling that we were going to see the resulta of a lot of compromises. Sad to see that the story wasn't all that deep to begin with. They wasted a lot of the details that a lot of us spent time trying to work our heads around. Takuan_Soho said: This show would have been better off sticking with one theme instead of trying to have too many, stranger in strange land, space opera, slice of life, social commentary, environmental commentary, pick one and do it well. The trouble with multiplying targets is that you usually don't succeed in hitting any of them. Plus, the contrasts between the two fleets is too great, to the extent that even the weather has decided which to support (sun for gargantia, mist for the cult). This show has the depth of cheap one ply toilet paper. Totally agree.. I wonder what anime databases will label this series now. Sci-fi is for sure, but the rest? A little bit of everything lol. |
| Pretty slow paced episode again. I was expecting more action. Alright though. |
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Takuan_Soho said: So the Alliance is a pure fascist state, not much surprise there, though it is depressing. Had hoped for a bit more complexity than "becoming what you hate". Sigh. Should have know better than to expect something from this show, why should this episode be different from the others. "baw haw, this show did not conform to my ideas of militarism-fuck-yea, thus it is bad show". sorry, mate, will have to give out actual arguments, as so far this set up is the only kind of set up that makes an actual sense and fits the real world logic, not to mention fitting everything the show has already intricately built up through its entire run. Takuan_Soho said: Fai said: As for communism - yes, on its own it does not work, but there are quire a few good insights in it. There's a reason on why a majority of world currently uses a version of hybrid capitalism - with certain ideas of socialism having been ported over into capitalism(ie: government planning, etc) Communism is not socialism. Communism in itself really has no good ideas. The idea of a working class revolt and a dictatorship of the proletariat pretty much ensures that lots of people are going to get killed. At best communism and socialism are cousins. Fascism and communism are siblings. Communism is built upon a twisted version of socialism. The idea of conflict of interest between lower income and higher income is not that strange, even if communism overblows it. Marx, even if his latter published works are zany crazy nonsense, was the first person to point towards the internal struggles in society during economic crisis after all. Communism is simply authoritarian version of socialism, just like fascism is authoritarian version of nationalism/republicanism. Thus fascism fits Alliance more. |
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| Pretty sure that Kugel is dead by now and it's his former mecha that's running the show (in true North Korea style I might add). I wonder how Ledo will react to the annexation of Gargantia. And the Pirate queen's role in all of this is still a bit iffy in my book. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
Marzan said: Pretty sure that Kugel is dead by now and it's his former mecha that's running the show (in true North Korea style I might add). I wonder how Ledo will react to the annexation of Gargantia. And the Pirate queen's role in all of this is still a bit iffy in my book. Its not exactly annexation though. Its ELIMINATION of Gargantia - as a way of setting the example of what would happen to those who stand up against them. |
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| Seems I was the only one noticing the Sheikah symbol all over those fanatics, what a shame :p |
| It's only you. This series took a turn for the depressing really. I support the vote that Kugel may be dead and Striker is running the show. Pinion is a spineless asshole and it was depressing seeing everyone just surrender because they don't want to get hurt. I'll rage if Amy gets hurt. I hope Ledo picks the right choices, here endeth my thoughts. (Naw, I too saw the Sheikah symbol but I wouldnt want to say anything lest someone calls me a Video game freak or somethnig lols.. majora mask ftw tho. ._. |
| You're all idiots, but I'm no different. |
| Alright guys, get ready for 2 final episodes of pure tear-wrenching massacre. I can't wait to see how this plays out. |
Wecc said: All Hail HaXXspetten King of the Loli Traps! |
cuntologics said: It's only you. This series took a turn for the depressing really. I support the vote that Kugel may be dead and Striker is running the show. Pinion is a spineless asshole and it was depressing seeing everyone just surrender because they don't want to get hurt. I'll rage if Amy gets hurt. I hope Ledo picks the right choices, here endeth my thoughts. (Naw, I too saw the Sheikah symbol but I wouldnt want to say anything lest someone calls me a Video game freak or somethnig lols.. majora mask ftw tho. ._. You haven't seen much of Urobutchi's works, have you? If you ask me: |
Wecc said: All Hail HaXXspetten King of the Loli Traps! |
Takuan_Soho said: Communism was not about the conflict between higher and lower income, it was about control of the means of production. Income disparity (or more properly resource allocation disparity) could exist even in a pure communistic state, for instance among the bureaucratic and cultural elites (which is part of the great appeal of communism among the bureaucratic and cultural elites). You also missed my argument about this show, what I found disappointing (as I explained later in that post) is that the conflict is portrayed simplistically. It makes the choice Ledo has to make too easy. People who supported communism had reasons for supporting it, it wasn't an easy good vs bad conflict. By infantilizing this decision to the point where the pathetic fallacy is deployed this shows loses any dramatic tension, and says nothing to anyone besides the obvious. It would be like asking someone where they would like to live, in a lean-to on an ice-berg in the dead of winter or in a beach house in Malibu. And communism is not merely authoritarian socialism. And fascism is not merely an authoritarian version of nationalism. Both of those terms describe a specific socioeconomic structure. Fascist Germany was AS socialistic as Soviet Russia. +1 ... I want to cry this show was so disappointing.... T______T |
| Commander Kugel wants Ledo to attack Gargantia WTF!? and theres still more!! A FEMALE CHAMBER!!Well that episode was crazy... |
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| Everything since Ledo left Gargantia seems really rushed. I think this could have benefited from additional episodes or trimming some of the earlier material and focusing more on Ledo's development over slice of life. Also, "awareness strategy" is a pretty ominous euphemism if I've ever heard one. Would not surprise me at all if Kugel is actually dead and his mecha is just continuing to carry out the mission and using his image. |
JOHJ said: Everything since Ledo left Gargantia seems really rushed. I think this could have benefited from additional episodes or trimming some of the earlier material and focusing more on Ledo's development over slice of life. Oh but slice of life WAS Ledo's development. |
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| NOOOOOOoooo ... even though I see where this show is headed I'll still act surprised ... NOOOOOOO :p Good ep all the same |
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Fai said: JOHJ said: Everything since Ledo left Gargantia seems really rushed. I think this could have benefited from additional episodes or trimming some of the earlier material and focusing more on Ledo's development over slice of life. Oh but slice of life WAS Ledo's development. Most of it just came down to "Ledo has now been exposed to the Gargantian way of life and their opposing viewpoint." It would have been more effective to see him actually start to adopt some of these ideas beyond realizing he likes scantily clad dancing girls and trying out various jobs (which isn't really anything new for him, in his life so far he has always had a purpose so it's natural he'd want to feel like he's doing something/being useful) because it seems pretty likely at this point he's going to go full Dances With Wolves and side with the natives in the end. Ideally, I'm fine with them keeping it as is assuming they can cover the rest well, but it feels like the ending is going to be really rushed. |
| And i really thought this was a calm and refreshing anime. |
skudoops said: Let me start with what I didn't like about this ep. - There was quite a bit of uneven animation, some of the beginning were particularly bad. -Pinion was way too quick to hand over his fleet after talking about protecting his treasure for the longest while. I agree with the uneven animation, however, I'm going to have to disagree with your second point. Let's look at a couple of things. The Kugel fleet is admittedly strong, because it has the Striker. Striker is probably a lot more powerful than Chamber because for one, Kugel is Ledo's superior. Also, we see in the first episode that Striker is significantly stronger than Chamber. There are also a lot more people on the Kugel fleet. Pinion can see that, everyone can see that. And after Pinion's idiocy from the previous episode, his fleet really needs protection. If they don't get it, they're going to make the Kugel fleet their enemies (and Ledo who would probably go with them, seeing that he so easily picked his commander over Pinion's fleet), and everyone else in the sea will be out to get them (not including Gargantia). To ensure that nothing will happen to the fleet (and if anything does, it will be HIS fault), he really has no choice but to hand his fleet over. He's also being offered a very well 'paid' job. Well, okay. He does have a choice. To be destroyed, or to be under the protection of a very strong fleet. |
skudoops said: I understand that he had no choice, I have no qualms with that. I just have an issue with how quickly he made it, considering his prior stance and actions. I can see where you're coming from, but throughout the anime we see that Pinion is quick to act on impulse, and doesn't spend time thinking about his actions (we see that easily from the previous episode) or what may happen as a result of them. So it's not that much of a surprise that he did act that way, but it's definitely annoying. |
| gotta agree with everyone here. The guy is probably dead and it's the AI that is controlling everything. |
| Plot twist!!!!! Saw that ending from a mile away as soon as the commander revealed that they were gonna attack a ship >.< |
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| if Krugel plans to destroy Gargantia as showing of strength to the whole world then Ledo will not accept it imo |
| Pinion acted a little unexpectedly this episode-as if the writers were trying to make him seem smart or as if he had some sort of plan underneath all his previous stupid decisions. Either way, I suppose I like it better that he admitted he didn't think anyone would follow him because of all that he had done so far- despite the fact that the people are still stupid for following him.. Anyways, seems like this 'targeting Gargantia' plan will be laid out the next episode and we'll see if Ledo decides to rebel and protect Gargantia or stick with Kugel. I think we can guess which one happens- which leaves the last episode action packed. One small detail-that I can let go off since there are so many writers and I've been disappointed enough times by now so I don't really care- is that Ledo's behavior at the very beginning of the episode seemed inconsistent to his traumatic realization at the end of episode 10. You'd think that since it's still the same day and only probably an hour past his discovery of the Hideauze that he'd still be slightly upset and more unwilling to simply accept Kugel's explanation that the Hideauze aren't human (which I still don't fully agree with Kugel since he's biased and we don't have enough information- but then again it seems like we never will since the last two episodes will most likely be centered on Gargantia, rebelling, and Ledo going back to Amy). All in all, this episode felt a little tasteless and bland, but it'll have to do seeing how the last one caused an uproar. I just hope that the last two episodes will have some consistent, thrilling scenes. |
| I think the striker is acting alone, the commander died a long time ago, based on the personality we saw back during the war, the commander didn't seem like the power hungry type. |
Takuan_Soho said: Communism was not about the conflict between higher and lower income, it was about control of the means of production. Income disparity (or more properly resource allocation disparity) could exist even in a pure communistic state, for instance among the bureaucratic and cultural elites (which is part of the great appeal of communism among the bureaucratic and cultural elites). And communism is not merely authoritarian socialism. And fascism is not merely an authoritarian version of nationalism. Both of those terms describe a specific socioeconomic structure. Fascist Germany was AS socialistic as Soviet Russia. This guy knows. Those are collectivism at its worst. |
 The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. |
| It's actually confirmed that Kugel is dead, other than the personality differences. He just said that the information regarding Hideauze was "not something that was discussed, not even in the upper echelons" and "unnecessary for those of us fighting on the front lines", yet he knows. |
| “A grown man does not apologize. It lowers the value of his soul.” -Araragi Koyomi |
| This episode was a little too much build up for the next and last 2 episodes. I hope it doesn't drop the ball and disappoint.... |
 K-ON v1.1 ... Please leave you comments on my profile! ^_^ |
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| Wow I have a feeling ledo will lead a bit of a uprising. |
morrownight said: Takuan_Soho said: Communism was not about the conflict between higher and lower income, it was about control of the means of production. Income disparity (or more properly resource allocation disparity) could exist even in a pure communistic state, for instance among the bureaucratic and cultural elites (which is part of the great appeal of communism among the bureaucratic and cultural elites). You also missed my argument about this show, what I found disappointing (as I explained later in that post) is that the conflict is portrayed simplistically. It makes the choice Ledo has to make too easy. People who supported communism had reasons for supporting it, it wasn't an easy good vs bad conflict. By infantilizing this decision to the point where the pathetic fallacy is deployed this shows loses any dramatic tension, and says nothing to anyone besides the obvious. It would be like asking someone where they would like to live, in a lean-to on an ice-berg in the dead of winter or in a beach house in Malibu. And communism is not merely authoritarian socialism. And fascism is not merely an authoritarian version of nationalism. Both of those terms describe a specific socioeconomic structure. Fascist Germany was AS socialistic as Soviet Russia. +1 ... I want to cry this show was so disappointing.... T______T This sums it up pretty good |
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OutlawJess said: lol nice dude |
| Okay, either this show is going to end in the most sappy, stereotypical, "I-could-have-written-this-myself" ending, or they might try for something a little more original. So Capt. Kugel has introduced the Galactic Alliance's society to Earth, and we begin to see the other extreme of argument on the advancement of society. Sometimes humans "advance" to the point were things go wrong and they too lose touch with their humanity. The Hideauze are forgotten as we see Kugel continue to push for the advancement of the human race and make them more efficient. Pinion and Flange and their fleet are dragged into it and Kugel is planning an operation that involves Gargantia. How will Red react and will he continually follow orders blindly? However, why do I get the funny feeling that Kugel is dead and this is Striker's doing? Could it be that after her commander died the machine carried on the mission of the GA using the hologram of Kugel as a front? I'm very suspicious of the fact that no one has actually seen Kugel and even Red has only seen computer images or holograms of him. Is this really going to be the machines taking over? Is Striker the "Skynet" of this series? Well, I'm interested in seeing what this series will do, but I just hope we don't get a sappy, fluffy ending. What will happen in the end? I give this episode a 7.69/10. |
| Man this anime has brought me on a ride so far. I kind-of have a possible ending idea, but who knows. My personal preferred ending: In which Ledo goes on the Gargantia side in the end. I've understood that the whole "Slice-of-Life" feeling episodes were a way to show development in Ledo's personal thinking and the sense of community in Gargantia. Thus, he's conflicted with his thoughts upon learning the true origin of the Hideauze. Siding with the Gargantians, he may either sacrifice himself to defeat Kugel or just flat-out defeat him. (Which I doubt, but I can hope) |
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| Nice progression of the plot ... really, who didn't see the Commander being a villain almost as soon as his Machine Calibur showed up? Apparently everyone but Ledo, but Genre Savvy our hero is not. So they're going to attack Gargantia, or so the Commander thinks. I'm sure Ledo is going to end up fighting back, to protect his flighty (haha) little girlfriend. Two episodes to go, I look forward to some kickass mecha fighting! |
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