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OutlawJessJun 9, 2013 11:21 PM
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bastek66 said:  damn...thats look hawt... |
ZombieKun said: For some reason it looks like Iron man.bastek66 said: damn...thats look hawt... |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
Electromaster said: Fai said: niaxato said: Electromaster said: Lol, you people are actually taking the guy who talks about racism in the context of GIANT MURDEROUS SPACE SQUIDS seriously? Ever heard of trolls? Welcome to the Internet? On topic, Ledo seems to have some serious PTSP there. As for the next episode, inb4 all the death. For real, when I see accusations of racism and homophobia as well as someones political beliefs being brought into an ANIME discussion, I have to /facepalm. So blatant militarism and human-supremacy is okay, but liberalism and equally valuing all lifeforms is suddenly bad and "trolling"? Oh wow. Only in MAL. ANd yeah, SHOCKING FACTS - an anime focusing on philosophical conflict of human morality and political ideas is bound to drawn discussion about...human morality and political ideas~ shocking I know. Shit brah, aren't you a proud little hippie. But unfortunately for you, the anime explained it perfectly; Hideauze abandoned civilization. They're just murderous animals acting on instinct. And to humans it's literally the equivalent of having dinosaurs with lasers in their back yard. The two cannot coexist. It doesn't matter shit if they were human once. Now, the really good question is, in all the vastness of the Universe, why are they next to eacother? Why don't the humans show their logic and just flee? My guess here is that humans found an inhabitable planet somewhere deep in space and went there. But, for one reason or another it was taken over, or rendered inhabitable by Hideauze. So now they're fighting back to get it. Alternatively, humans are trying to run away, but the damn things just keep chasing them. Why? Because they're brainless and act on instinct, which is, apparently, "MUST KILL ALL HUMANS", at least in their current form (i.e. in space, I'm not talking about the Earth's low tier proto-Hideauze). Why is that so? Fuck if I know. Maybe they're just like the Titans in the currently most popular animu evarrrr. Now surely there's some propaganda to it all and everything, but the fact remains that the humans (space ones) are fighting for their existence because SQUIDS WITH LASERS. I cannot stress this enough. Also if you're not a troll, and you seriously correlate homophobia with fighting against murderous space squids, you're an idiot. Sincerely, a TS person. 1. Wrong. Anime only stated Hideauze abandoned TECHNOLOGY and that for Chamber, Technology=Humanity. 2. Even if current hideauze are animals, that doe snot justify genocide, since they live in different ecologic niches. 3. Even if the current hideauze are predatory, making this war that of a survival war(which is doubtful), it only makes war understandable. NOt justified, because they are still wiping out a species. That's never justified. 4. The inhabitable planet is fanfiction and never stated in the show. THe show clearly explained on why those two sides are butting heads - territorial dominance. Both sides are convinced that if the opposite has an advantage, it would wipe them out, which is understandable, considering Alliance's ideology. Its no different from Colonization of New World period(as in you have two nations competing for space in newly available territories), well except for the fact that one of nations showcases strong fascist tendencies. 5.We have no indications of Alliance ever running away from them. All of the cases to be observed were all about attacking hideauze, the whole utilitarian regime is designed around this war and the philosophy in the brainwashing video at the start of series clearly indicates an aggressive stance on the matter. 6. The only real difference between racism/homophobia and the varied reactions to the concept of evolvers/hideauze is that one is ficitonal while other is quite very real problem in our world. However real world implications still apply and people are condemning a whole race of beings without any actual real facts available, simply because they do not fit their standard of beauty. And what's more people are using the exact same arguments used in the real world cases. That's not good. Not good at all. lplayer19 said: Is anyone not curious about how things are going to end between Ledo and Amy? All that build up between them and now they arent even together or furthering that plot line. I love where the show is at now and the surprise ending but I'd at least like a little conclusion to that part. Its quite clear they will interact again and Amy will be an answer to Ledo's internal conflict, presenting a human-emotion counterpoint to Chamber's robo-logic monologue. Or she might get killed, considering who is writing it, leading to Ledo creating his own counterpoint to chamber, |
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| Damn it Urobuchi. You nailed it again. When we are about to see the shiro side of him he turn us into the darkness. I love every time he explained about the logic of the dark side of politics. He really can really show how the people who create the system thing. Be it in Madoka or Psycho-pass, Everything that we think doesn't make sense he will just point it out. -respect- Now it is the turn to see the brutal side of Urobuchi again. Another hope of Shiro side of him from me(as always.....which then Urobuchi will soon later denied it again I think in a very nonsensical way) And as always...dat cliffhanger~~~ |
| I feel like I'll never see Ledo X Amy again after this.... War between 2 Machine Caliber. |
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Fai said: 1. Wrong. Anime only stated Hideauze abandoned TECHNOLOGY and that for Chamber, Technology=Humanity. 2. Even if current hideauze are animals, that doe snot justify genocide, since they live in different ecologic niches. 3. Even if the current hideauze are predatory, making this war that of a survival war(which is doubtful), it only makes war understandable. NOt justified, because they are still wiping out a species. That's never justified. 4. The inhabitable planet is fanfiction and never stated in the show. THe show clearly explained on why those two sides are butting heads - territorial dominance. Both sides are convinced that if the opposite has an advantage, it would wipe them out, which is understandable, considering Alliance's ideology. Its no different from Colonization of New World period(as in you have two nations competing for space in newly available territories), well except for the fact that one of nations showcases strong fascist tendencies. 5.We have no indications of Alliance ever running away from them. All of the cases to be observed were all about attacking hideauze, the whole utilitarian regime is designed around this war and the philosophy in the brainwashing video at the start of series clearly indicates an aggressive stance on the matter. 6. The only real difference between racism/homophobia and the varied reactions to the concept of evolvers/hideauze is that one is ficitonal while other is quite very real problem in our world. However real world implications still apply and people are condemning a whole race of beings without any actual real facts available, simply because they do not fit their standard of beauty. And what's more people are using the exact same arguments used in the real world cases. That's not good. Not good at all. I'm sorry this just made zero sense to me. 1. Technology is a PRODUCT of civilization, symbolizing the human effort to develop WITHOUT breaking ethical codes and abandoning sentience altogether. Therefore, abandoning technology is an indication of the abandonment of the very essence of humanity. 2. What ecological niches? I don't see any other organisms in space. We're talking about the simplest ecosystem imaginable here: the vacuum of space. We have two organisms: one is a mindless predator, the other is the only sentient species in known existence, defending that sentience. 3. Understandable but not justified? Are you losing it, my friend? You're either sympathetic or you're not, there's no in-between. 4. ... 5. What do you call the wormhole? The CU had originally planned to leave the Evolvers behind so they could develop elsewhere and avoid furthering the conflict that had already started. It was the Evolvers who decided they wanted to steal that technology so they could expand into space as well. 6. ... I don't even. |
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OutlawJess said: Well if this series 50ep long, I don't mind...but with 13 eps, I think, once is enough. |
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morrownight said: Fai said: 3. Even if the current hideauze are predatory, making this war that of a survival war(which is doubtful), it only makes war understandable. NOt justified, because they are still wiping out a species. That's never justified. 4. The inhabitable planet is fanfiction and never stated in the show. THe show clearly explained on why those two sides are butting heads - territorial dominance. Both sides are convinced that if the opposite has an advantage, it would wipe them out, which is understandable, considering Alliance's ideology. Its no different from Colonization of New World period(as in you have two nations competing for space in newly available territories), well except for the fact that one of nations showcases strong fascist tendencies. 6. The only real difference between racism/homophobia and the varied reactions to the concept of evolvers/hideauze is that one is ficitonal while other is quite very real problem in our world. However real world implications still apply and people are condemning a whole race of beings without any actual real facts available, simply because they do not fit their standard of beauty. And what's more people are using the exact same arguments used in the real world cases. That's not good. Not good at all. I'm sorry this just made zero sense to me. 3. Understandable but not justified? Are you losing it, my friend? You're either sympathetic or you're not, there's no in-between. 4. ... 6. ... I don't even. That pretty much sums up my reaction xD |
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| The plot is thickening, and we are getting closer to the end, and to episode 13 where Urobuchi will do his work! Good episode, Pinion is getting full of himself and I have a feeling things will back fire on him and now he has the infamous death flag on him. He seems like an alright guy, but greed may have some negative effects on him, especially the pirates he just took in in this episode. Ledo is really struggling now, and Chamber isn't helping much either for his thoughts on why humans have to kill each other. I have some mixed feelings with both of their arguments in their case, but we'll see how this will play out the rest of the series. Also the cult ship that came with another Alliance robot, which might be Ledo's Colonel Kugel who disappeared in the first episode. Wether he is alive or still stuck inside of his "Chamber" remains to see. Only 3 episodes left, things are going to get really flashy soon!  |
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morrownight said: Fai said: 1. Wrong. Anime only stated Hideauze abandoned TECHNOLOGY and that for Chamber, Technology=Humanity. 2. Even if current hideauze are animals, that doe snot justify genocide, since they live in different ecologic niches. 3. Even if the current hideauze are predatory, making this war that of a survival war(which is doubtful), it only makes war understandable. NOt justified, because they are still wiping out a species. That's never justified. 4. The inhabitable planet is fanfiction and never stated in the show. THe show clearly explained on why those two sides are butting heads - territorial dominance. Both sides are convinced that if the opposite has an advantage, it would wipe them out, which is understandable, considering Alliance's ideology. Its no different from Colonization of New World period(as in you have two nations competing for space in newly available territories), well except for the fact that one of nations showcases strong fascist tendencies. 5.We have no indications of Alliance ever running away from them. All of the cases to be observed were all about attacking hideauze, the whole utilitarian regime is designed around this war and the philosophy in the brainwashing video at the start of series clearly indicates an aggressive stance on the matter. 6. The only real difference between racism/homophobia and the varied reactions to the concept of evolvers/hideauze is that one is ficitonal while other is quite very real problem in our world. However real world implications still apply and people are condemning a whole race of beings without any actual real facts available, simply because they do not fit their standard of beauty. And what's more people are using the exact same arguments used in the real world cases. That's not good. Not good at all. I'm sorry this just made zero sense to me. 1. Technology is a PRODUCT of civilization, symbolizing the human effort to develop WITHOUT breaking ethical codes and abandoning sentience altogether. Therefore, abandoning technology is an indication of the abandonment of the very essence of humanity. 2. What ecological niches? I don't see any other organisms in space. We're talking about the simplest ecosystem imaginable here: the vacuum of space. We have two organisms: one is a mindless predator, the other is the only sentient species in known existence, defending that sentience. 3. Understandable but not justified? Are you losing it, my friend? You're either sympathetic or you're not, there's no in-between. 4. ... 5. What do you call the wormhole? The CU had originally planned to leave the Evolvers behind so they could develop elsewhere and avoid furthering the conflict that had already started. It was the Evolvers who decided they wanted to steal that technology so they could expand into space as well. 6. ... I don't even. I already answered to most of this bullshit but here we go again. 1. Oh man, did you make me laugh at the part where you said that technology does not break ethics. THE VERY idea of Technology is dehumanization of human race. Its a consumerism-driven cold-logic kind of thing that, when over-used, takes away the very idea of human emotion. The very idea of technological advancement requires humanity to shed certain preconceived notions that become invalid, yes that includes certain moral codes. Is the idea of technological advancement wrong? No, but its not the only way and its not necessarily a GOOD way to progress as a race. Who decided that its the only way to progress? AS I said previously, once our intellect as a race reaches the point where we do not even need physical bodies, what good will technology do? nothing. 2. Except that none of that is stated in the show. You know what WAS stated in the show? That Hideauze do NOT need the resources Humanity uses. All they need is sunlight for nanobots to produce energy. So you have an oxygen-based species that relies on oxygen-based ecosystem and non-oxygen-based species that rely solely on sunlight and are not dependent on oxygen based ecosystems. Different ecological niche. 3. A starving person trying to rob someone because he can't take the hunger is understandable, but its not a morally correct form of action and still deserves condemnation. The one being robbed killing the said person in self-defense is ALSO understandable, but that does not change the fact that someone just committed a murder. Ended a life. There's a reason why death penalty is counted as barbaric atrocity that should be left in the past. 4. Too complex for you? 5. Point 4 Already explains it. Territorial advantage gives advantage in a war. I already explained it in previous thread - had Evolvers allowed Alliance to use gate and leave them behind, they would be giving Alliance time-advantage(considering wormhole travel is instantaneous while normal means would take thousands of years) and resource-advantage to them, which would lead into overall advantage for an authoritarian nation ALREADY hellbent on Evolver eradication. Continuing the fight on equal footing makes more sense. If Alliance succeeded in stranding Evolvers in what essentially is a concentration camp, by next time the races met, Alliance would have all the resources to eradicate them and its clear they were going to considering their fascist nature. War continuing AFTER however is not justified and blame lies on both sides, but the start of the war/genocide is solely on Alliance's utilitarian hands. |
AhenshihaelJun 10, 2013 3:14 AM
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itsvero said: My Lord, Pinion is such a douchebag. +1 |
morrownight said: 2. What ecological niches? I don't see any other organisms in space. We're talking about the simplest ecosystem imaginable here: the vacuum of space. We have two organisms: one is a mindless predator, the other is the only sentient species in known existence, defending that sentience. Personally I disagree. It was even mentioned a little in this episode, the Hideauze are basically ultimate lifeforms, they alone have the ability to live on within the depths of space. They have cut all reliance on resources and technology and are capably of living without effecting the world around them. When you compare that to humanity it almost seems like humanity is a cancer. |
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morrownight said: 1. Technology is a PRODUCT of civilization, symbolizing the human effort to develop WITHOUT breaking ethical codes and abandoning sentience altogether. Therefore, abandoning technology is an indication of the abandonment of the very essence of humanity. Why do you think technology is ethical? Can't you think of the many ways to violate ethical norms with technology? The whole arms industry. Surveillance technology. Food industry (treatment of animals). Technologies causing heavy polution of environment. You'll say that technology is just a tool. Well, yeah, just like biotechnology. The laws the Evolvers broke on Earth were the kind of laws that prevent or slow to a crawl the stem cell research. Or the laws that prohibit euthanasia. Or abortion. People who are against these things will say that they are unethical, atrocious, unacceptable and that whoever does them is an agent of the civilization of death, an immoral barbarian. morrownight said: 2. What ecological niches? I don't see any other organisms in space. We're talking about the simplest ecosystem imaginable here: the vacuum of space. We have two organisms: one is a mindless predator, the other is the only sentient species in known existence, defending that sentience. Ecological niches in space might be: areas with high radiation, very cold areas, very hot areas, upper atmospheres of gas giants, surfaces of rocky planets, oceans of water planets to name a few. But it's pretty obvious that there's plenty of space... in space. With the slightest amount of good will on both sides (or good will on one side and passiveness on the other), the two factions might never cross each other's paths again. Predators do not photosynthesize. They need to kill to survive. Which obviously can't be the reason for Hideauze. Their survival now depends solely on not being annihilated by the GA. The only reason I see for a species like them to attack is in self-defense. But if the GA fights for their dignity... I don't think diplomacy is an option. |
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| This dark moment.. It's so Urobuchi sensei-like :( But I hope this one different from his other works AoiMizu said: I feel like I'll never see Ledo X Amy again after this.... War between 2 Machine Caliber. Ofc not, happy ending for both of them.. They'll meet again.. Maybe last ep? Twist : They just talk and.. Tada problem solved XD antonn said: itsvero said: My Lord, Pinion is such a douchebag. +1 After 10 episodes you two just realized this? XD |
"Signature removed"   |
| Pinion is the most human character in the series... so I like him. Or I just like his VA. |
| 日本人はイッちゃってるよ あいつら未来に生きてんな |
| Wow, Pinion was always a bit of a dick, but to go this far and crazy..too bad so few eps are left unless this gets a S2.. |
Ray_Light said: antonn said: itsvero said: My Lord, Pinion is such a douchebag. +1 After 10 episodes you two just realized this? XD Oh no. He just somehow managed to kick it up another level. |
| kugel! wtf did pinon do -_- chamber's speech was amazing. i agree most of his points. hideauze and human won't be able to understand each other and the war won't stop until one side loses must be awesome if there will be a mech fighting. because ledo and chamber finally meet an equal opponent |
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| Seems things have gotten pretty interesting in the recent episodes. This series looks like it'll have a second season since the manga is still publishing and there are only 3 episodes left for the anime. |
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xAvengerx said: Seems things have gotten pretty interesting in the recent episodes. This series looks like it'll have a second season since the manga is still publishing and there are only 3 episodes left for the anime. The manga is based on the anime. |
ainkyJun 10, 2013 7:33 AM
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| Wild Creepy Cult appeared! What will Ledo do? I agree with everything Chamber said. From the look of it, I think Pinion will have a baaaad end. Quite unfortunate that Bellow doesn't have much screen time when she is more interesting. |
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| Chamber's speech was surprising I did not expect him to give such a reasonable advice to Ledo, Kugel's appearance was a shock. Curious to see how Ledo will interact with Kugel and vice versa. |
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| Brilliant episode!!! After the shocking revelation, Ledo is going to be mentally affected and you can't blame him as he has been told to fight for nearly his entire life in fighting something he did not truly know about and now he is getting a declaration from Chamber about his thoughts. Ledo is starting to realize that his actions are becoming less meaningful and as expected, Chamber continues to tell him that the must fight and that the sole reason for his existence is to fight against the Hideauze. We also get some information from Chamber about humanity and their civilization rights. A little bit of information about the Hideauze is given such as the lightbug's exoskeleton being to the similar type and is the evidence for such evolution. Nice to see that photon cannon that Pinion and the others were using and its most likely from the times when the technology was at peak. Pinion is also starting to turn a little and is getting a bit too overconfident and with that ending scene, it doesn't seem like it will be good for him or anyone. Meanwhile Gargantia have heard the news and are obviously saddened by this announcement especially to Amy. The ending scene surprised me when all of a sudden Colonel Kugel and his men have been detected and what on earth is going to happen to Ledo from now!? Looking forward to the next episode!! 5/5 |
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| Not much action, but Chambers Speech was impressive |
| Whoa. His commander is on "earth". Damn. Can't wait to see what will happen next. |
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razor39999 said: JeffreyZin said: ALWAYS EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED DUE IT'S UROBUTCHER'S WORK Only 3 episodes left & THE WORST IS YET TO COME. THIS IS TOTALLY MINDFUCK AFTER VALVRAVE & WHATEVER I SAID WAS WRONG!! Talk about A calm before a storm until episode 7! Man, I'm such a hypocrite right now about what just happened. *frowns* This wasn't very urobutchering-ish (that's officially a word now). The show just put us in a bit of a relaxed mood cause of the extremely fan service-filled middle part. If they added some actual story development during those episodes, this would be a very logical continuation of the starting two episodes. Except that they did add plot in those episode. This show has yet to have a "filler episode". |
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| What an episode... Really highlights quite a few important points and emphasizes the difference between pure logical outlook and empathy. Seems like a lot of people are agreeing with what Chamber has to say on the matter of evolution and how its a fight for survival and preservation between the humans and the "hideozu" (ironic.) However, if you look at the history of the human race, you will quickly realize that some of the most heinous acts of violence, Genocide, and Mass Murder were committed all in the name of preservation and securing a future of a supreme race; Everything from the Holocaust to the Bosnian Genocide. If you agree with Chamber on the matter of self-preservation, you are not accepting your humanity; You are abandoning it. Chamber is right when he said that it is our sense of self-awareness that makes us better than the Primates but that awareness comes with a sense of moral responsibility for others as well. I am willing to bet that there must have been a way to communicate with the "hideozu" and reach a potential compromise; I am just guessing that die hard fanatics on both the Alliance and the Evolver's side refuse to accept means of communication. As the famous line goes "What we have here is a failure to communicate." There is fine line difference between fighting for self defense and fighting for dominance. Self-Defense is how the crew of the Gargantia fleet fight; You commit only enough violence to subdue an aggressor. There is no morally valid excuse to kill babies of the hideozu... |
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| Im liking Pinion, he's doing it to create his own empire, maybe in the future he may even opose Gargantia, but he's still too dumb as a commander. And wtf why does Kugel wear a master-ball on his mecha? |
| Ledo finally realizes what he has done. Poor Ledo. Even though Pinion is avenging his brother, he shouldn't be stupid about it. That laser is waaaay stronger than any cannon. The speech Chamber gave was quite splendid. I was on Ledo's side during the entire time until Chamber gave the speech. Commander Kugel is alive, as expected (sort of, not really). He's even got a cult. All I await now is an epic mecha vs mecha battle between perspectives of life. |
I’m always searching for something, for someone. This feeling has possessed me I think, from that day… That day when the stars came falling. |
| 5/5 We think the first frivolous things ... XD Stark700 said: Dat end card: So this pic and really badly done, I did not expect this abomination. I notice the girl is nice, I wonder if it will become more present, it would be a good topic of discussion for the boys! XD DAT mech is badass, I like this! bastek66 said: Now let's talk about serious things! X°°D Stake great and was a real show, I liked it from every point of view. Excellent dialogue that enhance and make it stand out even more the figure of Chamber and the novelty introduced in the anime to allow even a mech to be the protagonist, fabulous graphics, and finally the final blow which adds even more charm and intrigue with so many question to ask ! honors he deserves this time! |
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| Pro-squid/humanity verse destroy all squid battle. Bring it on~!! Kugel, you're going down!! You may have a more powerful mecha, but, how much humanity do ya have, eh? Yes, Red... Feel the shower of awakening as you fully start to understand your surroundings even more. Feel the cull of nature of growing at your feet as you have acknowledged your "brainwashing". At least, we see more snippets of his past. Yay... And geesh. Pinion really deserves 10x the slap. His stupidity has gone even higher, but ah well, his stupidity has also brought the cult here. Can't really slap him for that. :D |
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| That ending.Kugel is back!!! I am waiting for a mecha battle now. |
Fai said: THE VERY idea of Technology is dehumanization of human race. Clearly we disagree on the very definition of being human. What exactly does being human mean to you? Living and surviving in the wild like any other organism out there? Technology and emotion are not even conflicting elements to begin with. Technology and complex emotion (such as compassion and religion) are both traits unique to humanity; these and others are what have propelled humans forward. They are magnified manifestations of the fundamental differences between humans and other animals. And with this distinguishment comes great responsibility. The reason human technology has been cause for strife throughout history is simply because we have not yet properly shouldered that responsibility. Simply put, do you want the ability to change your fate, to make a conscious decision for good or bad, knowing the risk that both good and bad decisions could be made, or would you rather throw away the ability to make a decision at all? And if after all this you still believe "that's how it should be; humans should not rise above nature, or rather, a creature like the human should not exist; God should never have created such an abomination as the human, cursed as we are with the ability for self-awareness and complex thought", I have nothing left to say to you. But I'll tell you this: by transforming themselves into physically robust, insentient creatures, the Evolvers have inserted themselves into the food chain and become no different from other animals in the sense that they do nothing other than consume and multiply. They have become one with nature, free of all ethical obligations because they are no longer CAPABLE of making ethical decisions. BUT GET THIS - the act of transforming themselves was a HUMAN act. They took control of and manipulated the state of their existence. They put themselves at the top of the food chain. They ensured that they would be the absolute dominant species in their ecosystem, destined to an eternity of consuming and multiplying with no danger of extermination, their only visible obstacle being the yet sentient HUMANS who oppose this kind of God-playing. The Alliance was trying to put a stop to the conspired birth of this ultimate virus, this all-powerful organism that will not only dominate but terrorize the rest of the animal kingdom. How can you say that there is no evil in such an existence? Fai said: 3. A starving person trying to rob someone because he can't take the hunger is understandable, but its not a morally correct form of action and still deserves condemnation. The one being robbed killing the said person in self-defense is ALSO understandable, but that does not change the fact that someone just committed a murder. Ended a life. There's a reason why death penalty is counted as barbaric atrocity that should be left in the past. What purpose does it serve to say that an act is "understandable" if the final verdict does not change? Unless you are implying that by some other reasoning the act would be justifiable, this is a non-sequitur. I'll take your example. Committing robbery, then using hunger as an excuse to seek sympathy may appear to be an exclusively emotional appeal. But in its essence, that excuse is often a veiled attempt to shift responsibility from himself to society. He is implicitly trying to convince people that society is to blame for his condition. In other words, there is no "understandable but unjustified" unless you are being non-rigorous in your definition of "unjustified", implying that there is another underlying reason for its justifiability (e.g., "justified" ethically but not legally or vice versa). I apologize for sounding pedantic, but if you want to be logical, you need to be rigorous with your language. Back to your original statement that a "survival war" makes war "understandable" but unjustified in its nature as genocide. If you put two animals in a cage and AT LEAST one of them is hostile towards the other, confrontations will ensue and a victor will emerge. There are only two outcomes. Either the Hideauze are justified in wiping out the GA or the GA is justified in wiping out the Hideauze. If you are contending that the Hideauze are justified in wiping out the GA because they are insentient, be reminded that the Evolvers had planned it all along. The Evolvers were the instigators of war, as proven by their conscious act of transforming into an aggressive predator, their self-imposed isolation from humanity, their breaking of international treaties, and their peremptory attack on the wormhole, which was NOT rightfully theirs. And now, they have become unconditional aggressors because they have lost their sentience and their ability to stop attacking. If you are contending that neither is justified in annihilating the other, and that the situation should not have evolved (pun intended) to this stage in the first place, remind yourself again who it was that led to this situation. The Evolvers. The Evolvers effectively waged war on the entire universe. Therefore, the only conclusion left is that the CU are justified in their actions. Q.E.D. |
tealcactusJun 10, 2013 1:11 PM
| "Oh when they come for me , I'll be gone" -Linkin Park xD |
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| RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. The rest is just bullshit stemming from the assumption that the Hideauze are no longer sentient (and predatory! LMAO) and thus is pointless to discuss. No wait, I have to laugh at one more part. "The Evolvers were the instigators of war, as proven by their conscious act of transforming into an aggressive predator," Haha. You're deluded, man. |
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| Kugel is alive!!! and the fleet with him looks wierd yes this is getting more epic |
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| chamber's point for fighting the hideazeu actually requires a level of recognizing them as somewhat equal beings of opposite ideals. therefore the 'we must defeat the degenerated aggressive monsters sentiment' doesn't really work here either. in fact, from chamber's explanation, humans (those who make tech/civ) must be the instigators of this war because they are they only ones capable of having sentiments for the ideals (of what it means to be human, as explained by chamber etc) from which to start the war. the inability to coexist concept is a something similar to the issue of slavery as right vs wrong. as in, although two nations could live peacefully for a while with one with slaves and one without, ultimately, they cannot both be correct and eventually one ideal will be defeated/die out mostly. //endrant. that was a bit incohesive but meh. |
linchpin said: RELIGION as "complex emotion" - LOL. RELIGION propelled humans forward - ROTFL, it's the exact opposite. It was and is holding us back. The rest is just bullshit stemming from the assumption that the Hideauze are no longer sentient (and predatory! LMAO) and thus is pointless to discuss. No wait, I have to laugh at one more part. "The Evolvers were the instigators of war, as proven by their conscious act of transforming into an aggressive predator," Haha. You're deluded, man. Okay, that was bad word choice. Religion is inherently social and sometimes political. I was referring to any kind of human spirituality, which may or may not take the form of religion. Spirituality stems from human emotion, and while it may not have any glaring benefits for humanity especially in modern history, it is nonetheless something unique to humans. I don't see any problem with my other points. |
Fai said: But that's the thing isn't it - its robot logic. It does not JUSTIFY the war. It just calculates that its needed for your survival. And in the end this is no different than a more extreme version of Cold War/ Oh dear lord... just what makes you think that Hideauze WANT to live alongside humans and not slaughter every last one of them? Even the pacifistic Earth Hideauze had to be fooled into thinking that there areno humans on Gargantia... to the point that not even the smallest sound was allowed to be made. You can't even communicate with the Hideauze because they abandoned the idea of communication. They have become animals through and through and you don't need Chamber to tell you that. And don't go comparing this to Cold War. NATO and USSR could negotiate and could achieve peace. The Hideauze want to slaughter every last one of the un-evolved and Alliance became a bunch of loonies that is only interested if defending against the Hideauze. This conflict has no chances of beign resolved in any way but one of the two species getting annihilated. It is already too late for both the Hideauze and the Alliance. And no, the AI's are not in command of humans. If they were, they'd slaughter them because they'd view humans not only as unnecessary but also as an obstacle in achieving advancement. |
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| I somehow feel that Kugel and Ledo will have a conflict but he saved Ledo before so it kinda proves that they have a somehow good relationship with each other unless Kugel really succumbs into killing Hideauze even if Ledo will explain everything he learned. |
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