| Takuan_soho wrote: ... a new character: Kinuyo Nishi, and she is from Chibatan (Chihatan?) high school ... Regarding the pronunciation of the name of Kinuyo's high school, I am 100% certain that it is "Chihatan". But this is far from obvious even to people who know the Japanese language well. Here is why I know it is "Chihatan": The name of her school is 知波単学院. 学院 means "school" or "academy". 知波単 might be pronounced "chihatan" or "chibatan", and I suspect there are other possibilities. HOWEVER, there is an additional piece of information to make use of. This school is the official "Japan-themed" school. Recall, for example, that Kuromorimine is the official "German-themed" school. At 知波単学院, the senshado team uses exclusively the Type-97 medium tank which is made in Japan. The official Japanese name is 九七式中戦車チハ. The common abbreviation is "Chiha" (チハ). A more affectionate form of this name was "Chiha-tan" (チハたん or チハタン). Adding the "-tan" (たん) suffix to a name is much like adding "-san" or "-sama" or "-chan". So "Chiha-tan" implies a deep love for this tank, as if to a baby. More commonly, it is simply referred to as the "Chiha". But, with some effort, I was able to find some webpages where they call it the "Chiha-tan". http://www9.plala.or.jp/inuketu/peace/97.html http://gikoheiki.web.fc2.com/riku/002.html http://okbigri.sakura.ne.jp/chiha_index.html http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1126117926 http://togetter.com/li/429767 Regarding the meaning of "Type-97" and "Chiha", here I quote directly from Wikipedia: Chi came from Chu-Sensha ("medium tank"). Ha and Ni, in Japanese army nomenclature, refer to model number 3 and 4, respectively. The Type was numbered 97 as an abbreviation of the imperial year 2597, translating to the year 1937 in standard Gregorian calendar. Hence, the "Type 97 Chi-Ha" could be understood as the "1937's medium tank model 3". Finally, I will mention that the name of the new character is Kinuyo Nishi (西絹代) where her surname: 西 = Nishi ("西" means "west") and her given name: 絹代 = Kinuyo. "絹" means "silk". "代" can mean "material". "絹代" is a common Japanese girl's name, which I surmise means "silk cloth". Kinuyo is a 3rd year student (i.e. Grade 12) at 知波単学院. |
okanaganMay 13, 2013 3:33 PM
| I made a point of finding five different webpages that all said either チハたん or チハタン. This was the affectionate name for the tank. So this implies that the tank is 100% called "Chiha-tan", right ? If it is written チハたん then it could not be "Chibatan", right ? I think these are very basic questions for you since you know the language. I just want to confirm the obvious first. Okay, the major leap of logic that I made is that the name of their high school would have exactly the same pronunciation as the nickname of their tanks. This was just my guess. I just thought it would be "cute" if it worked out that way. |
| I will comment point-by-point on Takuan_soho's movie treatment in a later post. For now, I'll make a few points. In the future, we can anticipate: (1) movies (2) OVAs (3) more TV series (4) manga (5) games (6) merchandise (7) fan-created doujinshi (同人誌) all based on Girls und Panzer -- The Original Series (GuP: TOS). I believe that logical consistency is extremely important. In other words, "being canonical". In the case of Star Trek, the creator (Gene Roddenberry) was very diligent in creating a detailed background that went far beyond what was shown in the TV series. After that, it was a requirement that future Star Trek movies and so on had to have stories that matched up. Creators of new Star Trek stories were free to add new facts. However, everything had to be consistent with what Roddenberry had initially specified. Furthermore, if certain story elements were introduced in a later movie, everything else after that would have to be consistent with everything that was added. There are many Star Trek TV series, movies and novels. Apparently, this vision of consistency has been followed very carefully. The noun "canon" is used, and the adjective is "canonical". See here for details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_canon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Canon The "universe" of Girls und Panzer has apparently been defined with a great deal of care and thought. So it would definitely be a shame to spoil it. I believe that this should apply even to fan-created art. Some creative fans such as Takuan_soho could come up with a great doujinshi movie treatment. However, other more detail-oriented fans should carefully check it before it is widely circulated. |
okanaganMay 14, 2013 10:33 AM
| Takuan_soho wrote: this team loves tanks too much to bow to mere usage Now I am revising my original opinion and coming around to agreeing with what you originally said. Their school is called "Chibatan Gakuen". The name of their school is 知波単学院 and 学院 means "school" or "academy". So the issue is how to correctly pronounce 知波単. I am now convinced by your explanation that "--iha--" almost never appears in Japanese, but would be changed to "--iba--". Therefore, the natural pronunciation of 知波単 would be "chibatan". So I expect that we will hear it pronounced that way when the movie comes out. As for their Type-97 tanks, the affectionate nickname is certainly "chihatan" for reasons that I explained in an earlier post. I think that a pun is intended here. However, the pun is based on the similar pronunciation of "chibatan" and "chihatan". The two do not have to be pronounced identically in order for the joke to be funny. |
okanaganMay 14, 2013 10:55 AM
| It is fascinating to read your explanation of the more likely significance of the character 単 in the name of their school. I certainly find it plausible that there could be some kind of high school called a 単学院, at least in fiction. In this case, the name of their school is 知波. Originally, I felt unconvinced that there was any intended connection to Chiha in Okinawa. However, this is starting to make more and more sense: 1. The location includes the sea and a nicely shaped coastline right next to the town. So this will look great in anime and also be recognizable. 2. The nearby military base airport runway is a great landmark. 3. They are right next to the beach. So it will be easy to find many more excuses to show cute girls in swimsuits. 4. The weather is very warm and sunny there, which is an additional reason for swimwear. 5. There could very easily be plot connections involving high school girls interacting with the professional soldiers. They are next door neighbours, after all. That lady from the JSDF appeared in the TV series (GuP: TOS). Recall her being airdropped in her tank. However, she ultimately played an extremely small role in later episodes. It would definitely make sense to feature the JSDF much more in the movie. On the other hand, prominently in the mind of Japanese there is a dark side associated with high school girls in Okinawa in connection with the US military base there: http://www.uchinanchu.org/history/list_of_crimes.htm In particular, on Sep. 4, 1995 three US servicemen raped a 12-year-old schoolgirl. I find it very difficult to imagine that in in the movie they will completely omit some kind of allusion to these real-life events. - - - - - - - On a separate note, I think that caution should be exercised when dealing with statements along the lines of "People in [COUNTRY] are [ATTRIBUTE]." You formerly lived in Japan, so you are enlightened. Also, it is only practical that some simplifications must be made when trying to explain how another country differs from one's home. As an example, "All Cretans are liars." To learn about an alternate perspective, have a look at this webpage: http://stason.org/TULARC/ideology/japan-american-misconceptions/26-MYTH-Japan-is-a-sexist-country.html#.UZPAO8qFP9w |
okanaganMay 15, 2013 10:15 AM
| Thanks for your additional comments. You are from the United States and you spent a significant time living in Japan. So I am quite interested to read all of your comparisons of the two societies. No doubt, when you were in Japan, you were in a position to explain the realities of American society to people there. I am Canadian. I have spent a few weeks travelling in the United States and a week around Tokyo. So I don't feel that I have reliable knowledge of either society. All that I can say is that both the US and Japan seem to be very different from Canada, at least in certain ways. I greatly enjoyed my visits. I hope that no anime fans from Crete were too offended by my stereotypical statement that "All Cretans are liars." I have never visited the island of Crete. But a Cretan did in fact say so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox |
| Okay, finally I have my reaction to Takuan_Soho's movie treatment. Senshado is a compulsory elective. If a girl quits Senshado then she will fail her school year. Or perhaps she can take the Senshado course in summer school. So I don't think that quitting is too plausible. Going totally crazy and wandering catatonically into the mountains would be far more likely. Something that is missing from this movie treatment is that "Chiha-tan" is the "Japan- themed" school. Gloriana is the "British-themed" school, so they used British tanks and behaved stereotypically British to a highly-exaggerated extent. We also saw "American-themed", "Russian-themed" and "German-themed" schools. All of these schools are actually located in Japan, by the way. My expectation is that the movie would begin by showing the activities of the Chiha-tan Senshado team prior to the battle. Otherwise, how can you introduce characters? It is not practical for us to meet characters during a battle since we can't see them so clearly. This anime is obviously made by Japanese people. So the behavior of the Chiha-tan team will be some kind of exaggerated comical sterotype of Japanese military or everyday behavior. I can imagine this going in many possible directions. There are different historical eras that they could parody. Maybe one tank has members who all imitate the Samurai era. Another tank is based on the Warring States period. Edo? Early Meiji? Shrine maidens? Monks? Ninjas? I am a bit afraid to guess Showa, but possible the GuP producers will give it a try. After we get to know the girls on the Chiha-tan team then we can next get into the battle with Kuromorimine. Being canonical with GuP:TOS makes it inevitable that Chiha-tan will lose. Frankly, I think that a movie that abruptly ends with the destruction of the last Chiha-tan tank (also the flag tank) during the battle against Kuromorimine would be good. Then, as the closing credits roll, we could see the Kuromorimine team giving some kind of battle honors to show their respect. |
| The St. Gloriana Senshado team was the "British-themed" team. They are actually Japanese. However, they behave in a comically stereotyped "British" fashion. Is this based on how Japanese people tend to see British people? Of course, I took it as all in fun and there was nothing offensive at all. Saunders Academy was the "American-themed" team. I guess they were stereotyped as being American. For me, whatever comical stereotypes they were presenting were not so extreme. Their team leader seemed like typical kind of amercan girl who would end up being the leader. She has an outgoing personality. Also, it is quite normal to hug somebody, even if you don't know them well. However, all in all, the Saunders team seemed to be fairly normal. The Pravda team showed very strong Russian features. It was a comic stereotype while at the same time not being offensive or disrespectful in any way. Kuromorimine is the "German-themed" school. As far as I could see, they did not do much that was clearly stereotypically German. (By contrast, "Rommel" on the Ooarai "History team" was an exaggerated German figure, certainly accurately based on the real-life German general.) Quite another issue is self-stereotype for the sake of comedy. Here in Canada, we think it is enjoyable and funny to see our culture presented in this way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pPRaD6TKLc In the movie, we are going to see the Chiha school (a.k.a. Chiha-tan) which is the official Japan-themed school. Are they going to employ comic stereotypes? Will a Japanese audience enjoy seeing an exaggeration of themselves? Is there any kind of tradition of introspective comedy in Japan? Alternatively, perhaps they will "play it straight". Perhaps the Chiha-tan team will behavre more-or-less normally compared to real-life Japan. In the case of Ooarai, they behaved normally in terms of modern Japanese culture, I am guessing. But there was one very notable exception in Hana's family, where her mother wore a kimono 100% of the time and rode in a rickshaw pulled by a family servant. This was a key story element, since the story wanted to create a parallel between the strong family tradition of flower arranging in Hana's family and the strong family tradition of Senshado in Miho's family. I think it would be extremely interesting if the movie takes the route of exploring different aspects of Japanese culture and history in order to make the Chiha-tan team more colorful. After all, we all enjoyed seeing the "History Team" in the Stug. Two of their four members were heavily into certain Japanese historical periods. That was certainly a kind of comic self-parody. I hope they will have the courage to have at least some of the Chiha-tan girls following Japanese military traditions from the Showa period. After all, 100% of the tanks in Senshado are from the Showa period. It would be reasonable that we would see some of the girls wearing historical uniforms from the 1930s. Also, there are quite a lot of pre-WWII army traditions that were completely abandoned after the war. We might see some of these brought back to life. As a minor but very specific example, the tank designation "chiha" is based on Japanese army jargon. "Chi" means "middle" or "medium". "Ha" means "three". My impression is that this jargon is no longer used. There have been major political developments in Japan during the past year or so in which there has been a great deal of re-examination of the role of military forces in Japan. Their 1947 constitution forbids them from having an army, navy or air force. At this point, there is a lot of discussion about amending the constitution to remove this restriction. |
 L to R: Sodoko, Gomoyo and Pasomi: The Discipline Committee Hi Zenjamibu: Thank you very much for letting us know about this new information. In addition, I really appreciate you giving us a link to your original source so that we can follow up on our own. I had not checked on GuP for quite a long time. Just now I have been looking at the various information sources and have been quite overwhelmed at the volume of stuff to look at. It is 100% in Japanese, by the way: GuP official Twitter: http://twitter.com/garupan GuP Official Blog: http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info The image I posted here is from an upcoming OVA called "Banquet War!" (「エンカイ・ウォー！」) which is packaged together with volume 6 of the BluRay DVD which comes out on June 21st. You can see multiple images from "Banquet War!" here: http://girls-und-panzer.at.webry.info/201305/article_6.html Apart from what you told us, basically I found no additional non-obvious information about the 80-minute movie. |
okanaganMay 28, 2013 7:30 PM
| More info on the Anzio OVA and the Movie. SOURCE: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4701979&postcount=6615  Anon Translation said: The Anzio match will be different from the manga version The OP will be the same, but the ED will have the usual variation The story continues after the victory in the nationals There will be new characters and tanks There will be a team stronger than Kuromomine The movie will be around 80 minutes long No people will die suddenly There won't be any treachery or sordid events There won't be any strange events that will give the fans a feeling of 'we were betrayed' Friendship and passion will be a theme again There will be an 'Ankou festival' again this November in Oarai. Please come and see again The chamber of commerce and trade is planning to do a 'Japanese Senshado federation mock test' quiz that can be done wile walking across town starting mid June (I guess it will be something similar like the stamp hunt that went on in Oarai during spring) |
| Hi Zenjamibu: Once again, thank you very much for sharing this very interesting information and also giving us an original source for us to follow up on our own. It's too bad that they don't tell us the name of the magazine or the date of the issue. However, I see that this is an interview. I guess the interviewer is some anonymous person who works for the magazine. The two people who are being interviewed are: Yuji Hirooka, a publicist for Bandai Visual (廣岡祐次, バンダイビジュアルの宣伝の人) and Kiyoshi Sugiyama, the producer of Girls und Panzer (杉山潔, プロデューサー). The very first part in black (starting from the right side) is basically a preamble by the magazine talking to the reader. The first sentence says, "Now that the Ooarai girls have reached the top, why would they keep fighting?" (度は頂点を極めた大洗女子が、なぜまた戦うのか?) Then, "Who exactly will they fight?" (いったい何者と戦うのか?) Then the preamble goes on and on. Maybe somebody else feels like translating. Then you see the question in red, which is basically asking how long the movie is going to be. The answer comes from Hirooka (廣岡, the Bandai Visual publicist). He says that it is going to be about 80 minutes long. After that, the interviewer basically asks about the specific plan that the director Mizushima (水島監督) has in mind. (I am briefly summarizing.) The answer comes from Sugiyama (杉山, GuP producer). He starts off by saying that they are still thinking about the specific details for the movie. (具体的なところは、劇場版の制作が決まってからだと思います。) And then he says a lot more, but it ends in mid-sentence. Clearly this is just the first page of a much longer interview. As for "Anon Translation", it looks like most of what he/she translated comes from later pages which are not shown here. My Japanese is poor, and working from a scan is a huge effort for me since I have to manually type each character in order to look up the meaning. Please correct my mistakes and add interesting things that you notice. |
| @okanagan: I can't read Japanese so I don't know if your translation is correct or not but I trust you on it or if someone can translate it further or has a copy of the magazine. Anyway, I think it came from Megami July 2013 issue(with Miho and Anchovy in the cover). Here's a pic: Big image ahead: |
| @Zenjamibu: Thanks. It looks like you may well be right about where that interview excerpt came from. Here is a link to something like the table of contents for that "July issue" of Megami. I just love the cover art. http://www.e-animedia.net/archives/28680680.html Here is more related to that magazine: http://www.e-animedia.net/archives/cat_212458.html Does somebody want to start a separate thread to speculate about the OVA featuring the Anchovy team? Based on that magaine's cover art, I am getting extremely curiious. |
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