Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Episode 27 Discussion

http://www.last.fm/user/Heigen

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Aug 2007

I voted I hated it. It's everything Gainax, put in a blender, and I don't like Gainax. Cliches and caricatures everywhere. Ecchi. Action worthy of Saturday morning cartoons. Well, I just can't enjoy a show without at least a modicum of intelligence in it. I'm annoyed because I kept watching it even though I didn't like it because of all you folks telling me how great it was.

Oct 21, 2007 11:09 AM

#65

Blacksatanman666

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Jul 2007

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It was ok, but I didn't like the battle "I throw galaxy at you!!'' <-WTF HE THROWED A FUCKING GALAXY AT ME?!?#!?!"#?"!¤#! How the hell he even can touch the fucking galaxy :S And this stupid my power is bigger than yours laser battle. :( From the point of where Kamina died the show has been so fucking boring and stupid, these new stupid looking star costumes (what they got from few episodes ago) crowned the whole shit. Well okay, this beats easily DBZ and My-Otome but there is still so much stuff I don't, like example if there would have no Nia and more comedy it would have been a lot better. :S

Oct 21, 2007 11:35 AM

#66

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Aug 2007

Well, I'd agree with you if by comedy you mean things like the first time Gurren-Lagann "combined."

Oct 21, 2007 12:40 PM

#67

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Oct 2007

waterfalls said:
I voted I hated it. It's everything Gainax, put in a blender, and I don't like Gainax. Cliches and caricatures everywhere. Ecchi. Action worthy of Saturday morning cartoons. Well, I just can't enjoy a show without at least a modicum of intelligence in it. I'm annoyed because I kept watching it even though I didn't like it because of all you folks telling me how great it was.

You're clearly oversimplifying the show's narrative construction, an element that went beyond the usual degree in animation to a level of satisfying symbolic progress and good storytelling. It's really a show that despite not being perfect manages to transcend the medium and becomes worthy of literary analysis. And yes, I'm willing to debate this if I must.

As for the final battle, it's mostly a conjunction of far-fetched quantum pseudo-science, figurative experimentation and creative animation... probably my favorite sequence out of the entire series.

Oct 21, 2007 12:50 PM

#68

mulderman

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Jun 2007

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When you become as awesome as trowing galaxy's you dont have to make sense ;)

Oct 21, 2007 1:08 PM

#69

OriginalName

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Aug 2007

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mulderman said:
When you become as awesome as trowing galaxy's you dont have to make sense ;)

Going to have to put those three magical letters here... QFT

Oct 21, 2007 1:20 PM

#70

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Aug 2007

7Th said:
You're clearly oversimplifying the show's narrative construction, an element that went beyond the usual degree in animation to a level of satisfying symbolic progress and good storytelling. It's really a show that despite not being perfect manages to transcend the medium and becomes worthy of literary analysis.

Why?

Oct 21, 2007 1:40 PM

#71

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Oct 2007

waterfalls said:

Why?

For once, Gurren-Lagann is multifaceted. At the same time a creative criticism on the animation industry, an ode to life and death, an optimistic yet nihilist interpretation on the theory of evolution and the ultimate take on the traditional hero archetype, everything related of the simplistic theme of a drill. I’ll extend on this after I get back home since an old friend is in town right now and I made the promise of encountering with him. I’m really sorry to leave you hanging like this but I swear this isn’t an attempt to evade the discussion.

Oct 21, 2007 9:02 PM

#72

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Oct 2007

As I declared, Gurren-Lagann is a multilayered creation that beyond the seemingly simplistic yet flamboyant exterior hides a bordering-in-the-literary storytelling creation that satisfactorily fulfills its task both as gripping narrative and as multiple clear in different degrees yet always subtle symbolic representations.

Consider the spiral, the one definite motif of the entire construction. Unsurprisingly the professional Nakajima manages to integrate such a concept as the very definition of the show, a word that becomes an “everything”. So it is that a logarithmical figure becomes an integral part of the plot, the core of the progression structure and even the epicenter of the meta-fictional criticism.

For the script, spirals represent DNA; an effectively straightforward condensation of the energy behind life and progress. This evolution is finally identified as a drill, the will to move forward and face the tomorrow. However, to advance a drill pierces and breaks, it destroys. The idea becomes ambiguous as the nihilistic reality of devastation hits home both in themes and storyline.

There is a two faced well-plotted dilemma that exploits the cores of the Science-Fiction genre about the limitless future of humanity. Development is a synonym of death, plain and simple. The infinite power of mankind that may only lead us towards our demise is the source of inspiration for the lead character. Nevertheless, such a capacity decrees itself in a bath of wisdom and acceptance. As the words marking the finale appear on the screen we come across a message as hopeful as it is melancholic; a promise for possibilities of greatness that despite hard-work come along with sacrifice.

The composition also follows the spiraling staircase towards the infinity. Starting from nothingness and climaxing in a battle of godlike machines for the future of the entire Universe. This pattern repeats itself thorough the entire show, be it in the writing composition or in its hardboiled knocker for the animation industry.

I’m awaiting your response and will expand on my beliefs or argue about other aspects in the production if you wish to do so.

Oct 22, 2007 1:23 AM

#73

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Aug 2007

235

If you don't get what's good about it, you probably never will.
If you don't understand what's good about it at all you're probably prejudiced about it from the very beginning and therefor you ridicule alot of the things that have a deeper meaning and really make the series.
7Th summed it up very well, and I won't delve any deeper into it.

Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ).

Oct 23, 2007 4:00 AM

#74

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Aug 2007

You're finding meaning where there isn't any, because you liked the show. The DNA/drill/etc thing was just writers attaching a symbol to everything to make things seem mysterious, much like the S-symbol in Heroes or all sorts of crap in Lost. That's just lazy. That pattern of bigger and bigger is something you will only find in every anime with fighting in it ever. Now, the DNA analogy was something I had actual hope for. We have the beastmen and lordgenome and so on, and I thought it might be something intelligent involving the many sides to genetic engineering, but instead it's just a take on "evolution" with the same "depth" as X-men.

Oct 23, 2007 5:06 AM

#75

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Aug 2007

Anyway, Skarith, 7th, I'm not writing to you, but because I would have wanted someone to write something like this so I wouldn't have wasted my time watching Tengen Toppa. And I've done enough for that.

Oct 23, 2007 6:29 AM

#76

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Oct 2007

waterfalls said:
You're finding meaning where there isn't any, because you liked the show. The DNA/drill/etc thing was just writers attaching a symbol to everything to make things seem mysterious, much like the S-symbol in Heroes or all sorts of crap in Lost. That's just lazy. That pattern of bigger and bigger is something you will only find in every anime with fighting in it ever. Now, the DNA analogy was something I had actual hope for. We have the beastmen and lordgenome and so on, and I thought it might be something intelligent involving the many sides to genetic engineering, but instead it's just a take on "evolution" with the same "depth" as X-men.

And once again you lose yourself in selfish simplifications and remain oblivious to the true meaning and intention behind Lagann’s concept of “evolution” and its nihilistic undertones. The main thematic purpose of the terminology isn’t as simplistic as the pseudo-science focused behind a lazy take on “genetic engineering” or the show’s own spiraling helix that works as a limitless energy generator. It represents humanity's dangerous will to fight and move forward, the classical "science-fiction" ideal of adaptation and technological progress.

Gurren-Lagann takes this concept and creates a positivistic song that doesn’t forget the destructive reality of mankind’s ability to move forward, a fair portrayal that depicts this particular cognition as both destruction and creation. Therein comes forth the existentialist transcendental subjection, a past that ties us down as much as it helps us move forward.

7ThOct 23, 2007 7:56 AM

Oct 23, 2007 7:25 AM

#77

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Aug 2007

235

I don't see how you actually find it to be full of clichés, because if there's one thing I think everyone can agree on is that it's an highly original show and you don't have to be a fan of either to enjoy it.
Once again I can only agree with what 7Th is saying, you obviously aren't getting alot of the finer points of the show.
I get the feeling that you really didn't pay any attention to what was happening at all from what you're writing.
Sure there are caricatures and ecchi, but that's only a small part of the show.
While I may enjoy alot of the other aspects to the show other than just the deeper and intellectualy stimulating parts, Tengen Toppa sure has plenty of depth.
Just take the fact that all the opposition simon and the others faced all had their own reasons for doing things and weren't necessarily wrong, bad or evil, that alone goes beyond most action animes out there today.
And while you say that you're writing to everyone else so they "won't waste their time" watching Tengen Toppa I don't see why anyone interested in watching would actually come in here and read the last episode thread instead of reading reviews and checking the average score of the series.
And if they ARE doing so, I'm posting so they WILL watch the series.
However, I'm thinking you're writing this to confirm to yourself that it wasn't deep or intellectual at all by writing something bad about it and hoping to be able to outsmart whoever tries to say against you.
I'm not saying that's bad of you, I just can't stand that kind of bullsh*t.

SkarithOct 23, 2007 7:32 AM

Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ).

Oct 23, 2007 7:44 AM

#78

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Aug 2007

I'm not writing to everyone else. I'm writing to people somewhat like me. Don't bother trying to convince me, as I'm obviously a lost cause.

waterfallsOct 23, 2007 7:53 AM

Oct 23, 2007 7:56 AM

#79

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Oct 2007

waterfalls said:
I'm not writing to everyone else. I'm writing to people somewhat like me. Don't bother trying to convince me, as I'm obviously a lost cause.

Fair enough.

Nov 18, 2007 6:00 AM

#80

Cloudy

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Jul 2007

2780

Holy Shit.... What can i say.... Jesus Cist!!!! OMFG
I HATE MECHA ANIMES... BUT this...
It was MASTERPECE.. It was just perfect...
An anime that Good Characters actually DIE.An anime that had humour,action,love despair agony.Perfect intro and ending songs.Unique animation.Unforgetable Baackround Music.Twisting plot line.OMFG they managed to create something beyond good and nice...I cant believe some1 thought of this... JUST PERFECT!!!!

Nov 21, 2007 6:36 PM

#81

DeimosFormido

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Nov 2007

First of all:

Skarith
Your signature made me laugh so hard my face hurts XD (it's like "swim-swim-swim-BONG-wtf? glass???")

Now what I'm here to say:

This is one of the rare occasions when I feel that bitter-sweet feeling that's just... unexplainable :)

It's a perfect ending, considering the overall orientation of the series. It couldn't have happened any other way.

GO LONG :runs: OK, GO AHEAD :throws galaxy: WTF? O.0

XD

Although there's ONE thing that I didn't like at all, and I'm sure a lotta ppl are gonna throw galaxies to my head over this reply :S

I'm referring to Nia. Not the disappearing thing (considering the circumstances, that was meant to happen, and it was also a brave move by the studio, which avoided the typical "oh crap, we're losin' her! QUICK, forget everything that's happened so far and do something weird and improvised to save her thereby assuring a cliché fluffy-happy-ending :P). It's her whole role as a character that startles me. I hate the fact that she and Simon fell in love in the first place.

Let me explain.

I think Yoko would be much more adequate as Simon's lover (and I'm not taking the looks into consideration). Think about it: she was the one to "introduce" the surface into Simon's life, she was there supporting him along with his Bro while he was still weak (actually, around this time we clearly see that he loves her, taken his reaction upon discovering her relation with Kamina), she suffered as much as him when Kamina died (after a while, she was already over it, and actually trying to help Simon get over it too), and they both continued to fight side-by-side, getting closer to each other in the process. But then a little girl he doesn't know at all pops out of a box in the middle o' nowhere and steals his heart.

:|

When he gets to know her, he actually expresses how much he misses her by saying something like "her words are simple, but warm". Wth? I wonder how come he didn't end up falling in love with a cup of tea! I mean, Yoko is a cheerful, energetic young woman with a really warm personality, while Nia is... weak, vulnerable and plain. (For those of you who saw Pani Poni Dash, the image I carry of Nia is that of the white rabbit. Yes, that one.)

Is it me, or japos find protection-craving wimpyness to be a virtue in women?

(when watching anime, if I'm still reading through a sub, but happen to hear anyone say "mamoru" in a romantic situation, I know I must brace for impact)

It's not the first time it happens, and unfortunately I'm sure it'll happen again. I über-hate this cliché, but I guess I'll have to learn to tolerate it (although I swear if Tenchi falls in love with Ayeka, I'll kill the guy behind it).

I cannot help but once again point out how ridiculously fast Simon falls for her... it's just not plausible, considering the fact that he was close to someone who he loved just a while back, and could very well still be in love with.

I don't think this post is entirely out of place in this thread, given that it affects one of the main points in the whole ending.

Gimme your feedback.

(Please PM me if u find any error in my English grammar/spelling (check profile for details))

DeimosFormidoNov 21, 2007 6:55 PM

I wish to be moved. I cannot feel in life.

Nov 22, 2007 12:16 AM

#82

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Aug 2007

235

Well keep in mind that alot of things surely happen in that 7 year timeskip, it's not unbelievable that two people fall in love over 7 years and get married.
I think what they had before that might be summed up as a crush, and that's because Nia was the only one supporting Simon while he was down.
I like that he didn't end up with Yoko, because it would feel like that just happened because Kamina died and he'd be like a "replacement".

Yeah everyone seems to love my avatar :).

Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ).

Nov 22, 2007 4:22 AM

#83

sHsIkuA

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Sep 2007

394

@DarkMessiah

I feel you bro, I feel you. At first, I am really hoping Simon will end up with Yoko, but sadly this can't be happening. First of all, after Kamina's dead, Simon , who are a lost cause can't even think rationally or do anything to even save himself. It is Nia who make him realize the fact that he is not his bro, he is himself. And with that, I don't think it can be any other way for Simon since Nia is treated by Gainax like some sort of "HOPE" for Simon and the brigade as a whole. Although I agree with you about Nia's personality, but I don't think she is that bad really. (the same can't be said about her cooking skill though)

BTW, Yoko reminds me of someone. Elizabeth Swann of Pirate of the Carribean. Every guy she kissed died. Lol.

Nov 22, 2007 9:00 AM

#84

DeimosFormido

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Nov 2007

my point of view could somehow be under influence by my personality

cuz I'm more of a warm-people kind of guy...

but still, they should hav made Nia a bit more energetic and livelly, cuz Simon tends to need the support of ppl around him, not the other way around...

I wish to be moved. I cannot feel in life.

Nov 22, 2007 9:16 AM

#85

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Aug 2007

235

I think Nia was pretty energetic and lively (and definitely supporting) up until she turned anti spiral.
I personally like Yoko better than Nia too, she's one of my favorite characters, but I don't think she should've ended up with Simon.
SHE SHOULD'VE ENDED UP WITH KAMINA ;_;!
(I have mixed feelings over Kamina's death, though I probably ended up liking the series alot better because he died. But he's the only one that fit really well with Yoko! :()

Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ).

Nov 22, 2007 3:14 PM

#86

sHsIkuA

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Sep 2007

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Skarith said:
I think Nia was pretty energetic and lively (and definitely supporting) up until she turned anti spiral.
I personally like Yoko better than Nia too, she's one of my favorite characters, but I don't think she should've ended up with Simon.
SHE SHOULD'VE ENDED UP WITH KAMINA ;_;!
(I have mixed feelings over Kamina's death, though I probably ended up liking the series alot better because he died. But he's the only one that fit really well with Yoko! :()

Uhmm, true. Since the "Nice Body" intro, I already thought of them being together lol.

But like you or Rossiu have said, IF, I mean IF Kamina didn't die, Simon wouldn't be what he is in the end, he is just another supporting character that tag along with Kamina. I wouldn't say it is uninteresting though but the fact is that Simon is the main lead. Furthermore, it makes more sense because they have a reason to fight for.

Nov 25, 2007 10:42 PM

#87

doeman

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Aug 2007

731

i still dont get why simon becomes a "lone wolf" after getting married. the hell was he trying to accomplish? looking cool or something?

he shoulda gave up the spiral key and lived in the city. but noooo, he wants to live like a bum?..............

Nov 26, 2007 8:35 AM

#88

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Aug 2007

235

doeman87 said:
i still dont get why simon becomes a "lone wolf" after getting married. the hell was he trying to accomplish? looking cool or something?

he shoulda gave up the spiral key and lived in the city. but noooo, he wants to live like a bum?..............

It's obviously an act to earn some easy cash!

Thanks De-Jay for my claim picture : ).

Dec 7, 2007 2:46 AM

#89

Voltlighter

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Nov 2007

694

http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=3758

Keep in mind I just wrote this at 4:30 in the morning, after watching 4 hours or so of anime.

But I think it sums up my feelings quite nicely.

THREW A FUCKING BIG BANG!!!!!111!11one!!!
-passes out-

Dec 17, 2007 4:30 PM

#90

FLCL7777

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Dec 2007

IF chuck norris made an anime, tengen toppa gurren lagann would be it

10/10

Dec 18, 2007 12:01 AM

#91

DeimosFormido

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Nov 2007

omg major lol

I wish to be moved. I cannot feel in life.

Jan 1, 2008 1:59 PM

#92

Paws

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Nov 2007

138

I think there should be more pictures of Yoko in a suit.

Epic indeed.

Jan 3, 2008 3:18 AM

#93

AnimusNathan

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Jun 2007

621

FLCL7777 said:
IF chuck norris made an anime, tengen toppa gurren lagann would be it

10/10

Chuck Norris jokes are an insult to humor. And it's people like you that make the TTGL fanbase look bad.

Jan 3, 2008 3:30 AM

#94

Chupachupi

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Feb 2007

364

DarkMessiah said:
I think Yoko would be much more adequate as Simon's lover (and I'm not taking the looks into consideration). Think about it: she was the one to "introduce" the surface into Simon's life, she was there supporting him along with his Bro while he was still weak (actually, around this time we clearly see that he loves her, taken his reaction upon discovering her relation with Kamina), she suffered as much as him when Kamina died (after a while, she was already over it, and actually trying to help Simon get over it too), and they both continued to fight side-by-side, getting closer to each other in the process. But then a little girl he doesn't know at all pops out of a box in the middle o' nowhere and steals his heart.

:|

I was hoping for Simon and Yoko to end up together at the start of the series too, but after Yoko's kiss of doom to Kamina, I thought it would be a cop out for them to end up together. Considering how similar to Kamina Simon grew up to be, it would have been like he was just Kamina's replacement.

Although I agree that Simon suddenly having a crush on Nia so soon after meeting was a bit of a turn-off, I do appreciate having Nia there with Simon in the end. After all, she did help him get out of his depression too. Would've been pretty horrible if he ended up alone for the rest of his life. Um, that is, pre-Nia disappearing.

sHsIkuA said:
BTW, Yoko reminds me of someone. Elizabeth Swann of Pirate of the Carribean. Every guy she kissed died. Lol.

LOL, I didn't even think of that XD

Build me up, buttercup.

Jan 3, 2008 12:39 PM

#95

Viral

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Mar 2007

178

I have to disagree with DarkMessiah. First of all, I don't think Nia as a wimp. It was her that stood up to Adiane, and Genome when she found he wanted her dead.

Sure, she didn't fight to the extent that Yoko did, but she was the support system behind Simon when everyone thought he was a lost-cause that was going to spend all his time carving statues of Kamina, and that system went on for the rest of the series.

Nia brought Simon out of his 'depression', so to speak. At that point she was the only one that believed he could save her if anything went wrong.

Jan 4, 2008 7:04 AM

#96

Obers

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Aug 2007

219

Regarding how quickly Simon fell for Nia, you have to keep in mind that little kids around that age are so confused emotionally about girls. Yoko was one of the first girls to give Simon possitive attention, all the girls at Simon's home village just picked on him. Then Nia comes around after Yoko, being the 2nd girl to give him honest attention. At that age, Simon would realistically fall for Nia because Nia helped Simon identify himself. Just imo.

Great Anime, Great Series, 10/10

Jan 4, 2008 8:36 AM

#97