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| Holy crap........ I guessed it was the cameraman from the start because of the amateurish camera work......... Didn't know I was RIGHT. Or, at least, inside Oreki's thought process. I feel awesome now. |
KuranoJun 24, 2012 10:11 PM
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| Man the new girl is super straight forward, and blunt. I love it! |
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| First for those who so easily denounced me that the keys were swapped without going through the movie themselves, I'd like to give you a present from EPISODE 8. Yes, EPISODE 8 where the whole movie is show: These pictures show a different key near his hand than what was picked up originally. I find the fact that I had to get the image myself and show it to you to be entirely a pain in the ass and a waste of time... Now do you believe me that they swapped keys? :) none of the outfits of the people change as to how they're wearing them so either the killer swapped outfits or covered the blood splatter with his hand while cutting. The bottom pair of the two lighter-colored brown hair are most likely not killers... they left the lobby and reappeared together and nothing seemed off about them. This means that Katsuta Takeo and Yamanishi Midori are innocent unless they worked together to be a killer but with how soon they met at the middle and the fact that their pathways to the room were blocked off would argue they couldn't be the killer. Another thing to pat attention to is that the two waiting rooms before the murder room both had their windows open and the one clors had + windows that looked broken: These rooms are something to keep in mind sense there was a rope mentioned when evaluating an answer to the mystery, not just the main room where the murder occurred. Also, the fact that the window is intact and closed in the locked room, as well as hard to open leave you to realize it would be hard to have entered via it. Now to continue, I'd like to point out the innocent pair met up at the middle at almost nearly the exact same moment as the black-haired girl, Kounosu Yuri. This allows me to argue she could not be a killer but an accomplice. The time it would take to climb up a rope is may decrease with experience but it still has a minimal time for climbing and with how soon she returned to the center, it's hard to label her as the killer for sure. Next I'd like to evaluate the top right pair. They are both suspicious... the boy ended up in a room above at the top left, on the wall near the door to enter the building and the girl when walking down the stairs stood and the fact that she didn't speak seemed awfully strange. I'm not trying to say there is a way to walk down stairs, it's just that even when she stopped on the steps, her standing position was awkward. The fact that they didn't stay together also hints that they are major suspects. Another thing to mention is how small the room the boy was seen in when comparing it to the other rooms at the top... his location and how where he was seen at when the others returned does not add up. Map: I can't give an accurate answer as to who did it but I'd say the girl who went up top, Senoue Mamiko is quite suspicious, her legs look like she was kind of point out that she was tired. The room she was give was big but depending on what's inside may cut the search time down low and if she was planning on murder from the get-go, the time to search would be 3-4 seconds for a place to hand and climb a rope down. The boy she went with, Sugimura Jirou, ended up in one of the smaller rooms, a utility room. I'm not saying it's hard to search but it's fairly close to the stairs. It lacks the need for a rope and there are many things he could look through but they were only aiming for a place to sleep, not a bunch of equipment. The black-haired girl is suspicious like Senoue Mamiko but with how soon she returned, I'm hesitant about it... of course the video camera wasn't showing a labeled time so we can't just argue "she only left for a few seconds" These 3 have countless ways of making it down there. Points to pay attention to is that the 2 girls who went up top on separate ways both went to get the key together... they could have discussed how well their plan went, assuming they worked together or interrogated each other about anything they saw the other doing. The boy with black hair also ran in and got his hand covered in blood the moment he saw the body. Since everyond had the same outfit on without blood, the splattering blood from the hand being cut would need to have gone somewhere... you'd think someone would have another outfit on or had to cover up the blood from splattering on them with their hands. This could be an ingenious way of covering up that he was the one who cut his hand off... |
kyled00mJun 24, 2012 10:30 PM
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KaitoDash said: I don't think Houtarou failed this, rather, it's incomplete. This is just like how it went with Sekitani Jun's mystery. He left something out of his deduction. That's what exactly I was thinking. Wasn't surprised that the cameraman would be the murderer but that cliffhanger. Didn't expect we'll have like another Sekitani arc's situation. |
| Another thing I'd like to point out is that Oreki's thinking is good for real-world situations... he was thinking seriously because if you're visiting somewhere with a group, and it's being filmed, the cameraman is also a character so I'll give him a cookie for thought... but that's all. He didn't consider the movie a movie... the cameraman is only a cameraman if he is labelled by other characters but they did well to only introduce the 6 characters and keep the camera off of any reflective surfaces and keep his body out of all shots. He is 100% not involved in the crime. Oreki also was too focused on the master key. I do admit that considering that the keys are switched would be the last thing to consider for amateurs but the fact that 2 people went to get the master key and returned together argues that the master key had not been taken before. |
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| Next Week's Episode Spoiler's from the Novel Irisu's Critic, which is actually quite obvious: Here's Satoshi's critic for why it's wrong: Read it here: http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Hyouka#Volume_2_The_Credit_Roll_of_the_Fool_.E6.84.9A.E8.80.85.E3.81.AE.E3.82.A8.E3.83.B3.E3.83.89.E3.83.AD.E3.83.BC.E3.83.AB_-_Why_didn.27t_she_ask_EBA.3F ------------------------------------------- My Thoughts: I kind of like the novel better, since it is more indepth... The key to answering this mystery probably lies in the old Sherlock Holmes Novels... I was thinking that the killer might be tied up to the ceiling of the room, but that's a bit weird and difficult. The fact that the windows in the other rooms are open is still a bit suspicious to me... since the place is "abandoned'. BUT: If those other windows were open, then what if the locked room/room of death had an open window too? Then wouldn't the killer be able to come down from wherever and kill the guy. To hide his tracks he would close the window. The fact that Hongou only wanted a small amount of blood may mean something too... |
| I think now I'm way less interested in the mystery, but more interested in Oreki's development. I suppose if I were to name a character that best describes me in real life, it would be Satoshi. So, it would be interesting to see how the naturally talented Oreki develops, and how the relationship between him and the rest of the gang plays out. What the new girl said is true though. Those who don't acknowledge that they have talent are scum, and those who don't make use of it, are even worse. And there's a fine line in being humble and just plain annoying. So, I'm glad they're touching upon some key aspects found in real life. I'm especially glad they showed that scene with Satoshi giving Oreki the 'cut-eye' look. It was pretty powerful, imo. |
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| And for a moment I thought they were going to ignore the rope thing.. I was so unsatisfied when Oreki just said "It doesn't matter how the murder carried out".. As expected of Hyouka, they did not leave any small detail unsolved.. The whole 7th person was interesting though.. Anyone thought that there's a reason the murderer chop off the victim's hand? I thought usually a murderer will stab instead of chopping off the victim's hand.. That looks way suspicious.. |
| Oops indeed. Bound to make mistakes, he ain't Sherlock... Yet. |
| Oh god this is interesting. Probably the best episode so far. From the beginning I got this feeling that I can't accept the Oreki's cameraman theory. Even after he explained it beautifully to Irisu. I found it amusing that it is just like how Chitanda felt at the ep 9 when she just cannot accept any of the 3 theories but she don't know where are the wrong points lol. Nevertheless, I also don't think that Oreki failed. He actually did a good job. To put it simply, at least his cameraman theory is much better than those other 3 theories. I have no idea though, whether his theory is just incomplete or totally wrong. Also, need moar Chitanda! I was quite happy when she showed and said "Oreki-san" but unfortunately, that's all for her. :/ This show is getting more interesting over time. Can't wait for the next ep. |
| The Game. |
CrimsonLight said: Oops indeed. Bound to make mistakes, he ain't Sherlock... Yet. Emphasis on yet |
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| Dang, cliffhanger!! Strange, Oreki forgot about the rope, he usually doesn't forget the details |
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| I think he messed up because he's not trying to satisfy Eru.. He wouldn't have missed it if Eru is looking at him with her eyes. Him trying to "prove" his talent of being smart is wrong, his talent is to be "forced" to do something. "If I don't have to do it, don't do it, if I have to, make it quick" who's with me? |
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| I commented earlier but after thinking about the episode I wish to finalize my theory. I would first like to state I have never read a Manga or Japaneses Novel in my life so I have no prior Knowledge of what is to be and that this is complete speculation. That's all there is to the theory, most of it lines up with the creepy dude who had the second theory (I hate him as much as the next guy but he may be correct), and I hate the idea of the shy kid always being the killer but its the best I could come up with. |
SolovkiJun 24, 2012 11:50 PM
AnimeMangaVicki said: Synrite said: AnimeMangaVicki said: Now i am really wondering why they didnt just ask Eba cuz she is Hongo's best friend so she could've easily asked Hongo about it. Why didn't goku ask the dragon balls to wish that all villains in the universe just died, or that him and his friends can be all powerful gods? Why didn't misaki from Kaichou wa Maid-sama! just come out and tell everyone she is a maid and worked it out? Why didn't lelouch just walk up to the emperor and tell him to kill himself, or just take advantage his powers quicker? Why didn't inuyasha and kogome take better care of the jewel shards and instead lost them after every ten episodes? They all had there reasons for not doing what they did and if you want to enjoy watching anime you should just learn to understand that there may be unforeseen reasons for characters actions and just go with it. Actually, in the episode, when Mayaka points out that they didn't use the rope, in the corner of the screen it says "Why didn't she ask Eba?" which kinda made me think that they were gonna explain that too. That phrase has actually been there in every episode of this arc. It's kind of subtle, and the font makes it a bit easy to miss if you're too focused on the subs. |
| Very interesting ending. I wonder how it'll go next episode. |
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| Best episode hands down. An episode without Chitanda feels so much more entertaining without the constant clueless squawking from her mouth. And Houtarou actually develops a lot more with influence from other people instead of just Chitanda constantly forcing herself onto him. His interaction with Irisu just feels so much more fluid compared to his interaction with Chitanda's. All she does is just pelt him with question after question. The cliffhanger ending was great too. A sudden mishap on Houtarou's part. Would be pretty damn boring if everything goes picture perfect in each arc. |
WasabiJun 25, 2012 12:10 AM
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| Owww.. First time there was a loophole in Oreki's theory.. gotta expect more from this mystery.. |
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| The best episode so far, loved the cliffhanger at the end~! Can't wait until next week~ |
Ellis-chan said: The best episode so far, loved the cliffhanger at the end~! Can't wait until next week~ Yui! .... oh, wait Personally, this episode missed a significant amount of chitanda. I would have liked to see her with a hangover <3 |
| I want Rambo in a mecha-suit with a laser-chainsaw gun that fires nuclear warheads, fighting the love-child of Predator, Alien, a group of Bangladeshi terrorists, and Satan. (Actually that would be a pretty sick show) - StopDropAndBowl |
| I was thinking what for is that rope. But Oreki and the Empress..... |
| LOL |
| Wow, Satoshi is jealous? I wonder why, I don't think that it is because Oreki "gets" the girls, so I'm curious. |
| That was a pretty good episode. After thinking about it a bit because the mystery is eating me alive and out of pure speculation of what information is available I've come up with a theory with two possibilities. That is basically my theory. |
The way Oreki ended it was fine. To hell with the rope.  |
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| LOLOLOL @ THE GUY SHOOTING EVERYONE ELSE'S THEORIES DOWN AND CLAIMING HIS ONE WAS RIGHT AT THE LAST EP'S THREAD >:D ...okay now I've gotten that out, I really liked this episode. I also especially liked how they gave it the illusion of being solved, and only revealing it at the end for a nice cliffhanger :D. I had the rope in mind throughout Oreki's explanation of the mystery to Irisu, but for some reason, it jumped straight of out my brain afterwards. Maybe its because I thought it was finished lmao. Well at least I'm glad I forgot about it, it gave me quite the surprise and something to look forward to next week :D. 5/5 ...and to the guy i just laughed at at the beginning of this post, the mystery isn't over yet, so maybe your theory may still hold some value. Perhaps they might have to rethink the entirety of the mystery, who knows. Just don't trash talk everyone else's theories next time, saves you face when your theory turns out to be wrong. :) I wasn't any of theorists btw, just giving advice. |
| I get the feeling this whole episode is pretty much Oreki being thrown off by his ego boost from everyone showering him with praise. The whole "be humble" Japanese mantra seems to be all over this. 'Don't think your special. Always think you can get better. If you think your special you'll screw up. don't get cocky' Sure enough he starts thinking about what everyone tells him and he loses focus and screws up in his deductions. I get the feeling that Irisu girl even knows about the missing rope flaw in his theory. I get the feeling that she couldn't draw her own conclusion. So she just went with his flawed theory which was good enough to go with without a major plothole. Outside of a few insiders no one would care about a rope that was never existed in Oreki's version that was made. I'm sure Oreki's guilt will lead him to reevaluate the story and come up with the correct solution. random theories and speculation thoughts.. One last thought. Did anyone find Irisu's praising Oreki a bit suspect?? It seems from the tea room meeting up until his Theory reveal, she seemed to be overly praising him. almost to the point you wonder if she was trying to psychologically sabotage him. Something didn't seem right with that. To me, it's seemed way too obvious that she was trying to induce a desired response from Oreki. |
CirrisJun 25, 2012 3:38 AM
| Looks like the mystery is not yet solved with the "rope theory", looks like this case is pretty tough even for Houtaro |
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| Oreki getting too far ahead with himself when Irisu called him special that's why he made a mistake... Well can't blame him though, what guy wouldn't get so worked up when a hot senpai have a lot of expectation with him... And lol disappointed looking Chitanda XD I hope after this arc finish we can still get more Irisu senpai... because she's hot... In next episode, Oreki going to realized that he's better off being "grey" |
amc9988Jun 25, 2012 3:51 AM
Cirris said: One last thought. Did anyone find Irisu's praising Oreki a bit suspect?? It seems from the tea room meeting up until his Theory reveal, she seemed to be overly praising him. almost to the point you wonder if she was trying to psychologically sabotage him. Something didn't seem right with that. To me, it's seemed way too obvious that she was trying to induce a desired response from Oreki. I personally think that that was part of her ability to make anyone do what she wants, because that was what she wanted and that method certainly did work. I personally think they were hinting at a romance, but it could also go the other way. However, what motives could she have to possibly have to want to sabotage him? Jealousy? A test that's part of her greater scheme? She certainly seems to be either a love rival or the eventual villain. Definitely not just an extra character for the sake of this mystery arc. :s |
| What if two people were in on it? o.O |
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| Daaaaaamn, that was a great cliffhanger. Mayaka's really sharp. I completely forgot about the rope. I wonder how they'll conclude this. |
| wow :D best description of solution and reason to kill is here that was so.... so lame no one spoke to him so he killed someone :D great this series goes into realm of Milky Holmes in next episode: Oreki learns he was wrong so he kills himself, Chitanda falls into alcoholism, Satoshi is forever alone :P |
| Such an intense episode. Oreki did it again; once again a great theory. But like the last big mystery we had, this one needs some improvement too. It was a good catch by Mayaka. Satoshi was right in that she has the talent! But I guess I'm more curious about what Chitanda had to say. Again, animation was fabulous and background music was better. |
| And slowly, you come to realize... It's all as it should be... |
Dalek-baka said: in next episode: Oreki learns he was wrong so he kills himself, Chitanda falls into alcoholism, Satoshi is forever alone :P And Dalek-baka goes back to watching dramatic love comedies cause that is the only thing he understands and appreciates. |
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Dalek-baka said: this series goes into realm of Milky Holmes at least milky holmes is funny and baldly stupid. Hyouka try to be something else, but failed much harder, than milky holmes as a detective anime. |
| 1 of the better episodes. Love the focus/development on Oreki and satoshi on this episode. |
 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ |
| I had to go back to previous episode to remember what was wrong with rope not being mentioned in Oreki's final theory. It did seem a bit weird how he by himself got the right theory in quite short amount of time. I wonder what really was Hongou's plan. Also Irisu seemed to be pushing Oreki a bit too hard, she was nicer and praised him more than anyone up until now. It seems fishy and i would guess that she came up with the very same theory as Oreki did this episode, but wanted to make it officially his theory in case it's wrong... or something. Definitely looking forward to next episode, as this week's was really good. |
| レッツゴー ED イケイケゴーゴー |
| Of course, the cameraman. That explains the wacky perspectives and such. It's like Cloverfield. :P But yea, the rope. What was it used for and why wasn't it mentioned? Hotarou has some explaining to do in the next episode. |
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| i think hognou is just fine... all of this just someting she's been plotting with irisu senpai... didn't know about the motive, maybe prolog for a long arc... just saying |
lonelydemon said: huh, There's another vital mistake that Oreki completely ignore. He didn't take into consideration the 10 commandments the 10 rules to follow when making a mystery fiction. yes,I completely agree.Based on the rule,The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story,so the cameraman has to be excluded if the director really follow these rules as Irisu mentioned b4. Zhou said: I don't care about the rope, Hongou changed the script and that's it? Haba could've lied on top of that, I wouldn't trust him. Don't you fucking dare bring Haba back, he is disgusting and that one second this episode was already too much. phhh...hahaha,the way you saying this is very hilarious |
groundfishJun 25, 2012 7:10 AM
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Synrite said: And Dalek-baka goes back to watching dramatic love comedies cause that is the only thing he understands and appreciates. Ok this was decent... but next time please try harder, ok? groundfish said: yes,I completely agree.Based on the rule,The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story,so the cameraman has to be excluded if the director really follow these rules as Irisu mentioned b4. But did he know them? Because if not than that weird solution is plausible - and he wasn't too much into that stuff before if I recall. And of course if autor used them at all. So it will come up in the end with - what she could to do with that rope. It's not about window as it was shut, not exactly with those two passings between rooms (still one could use them to pull things into them to make them look as closed). |
| Great episode, but another cliffhanger? Well the main strength of this show is animation quality so it makes sense that they do that. I was surprised when they said it was the cameraman, it does make sense but it is sort of lame imo. I'm looking forward to the next episode. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
Cirris said: I get the feeling this whole episode is pretty much Oreki being thrown off by his ego boost from everyone showering him with praise. The whole "be humble" Japanese mantra seems to be all over this. 'Don't think your special. Always think you can get better. If you think your special you'll screw up. don't get cocky' Sure enough he starts thinking about what everyone tells him and he loses focus and screws up in his deductions. I don't really get that feeling from it; the opposite if anything, the whole series has been pushing Oreki to accept that he has a gift, and start doing something with it. If there's moralising in this episode, it's probably more along the lines of 'if you're going to do something, don't be half-arsed about it'. I think Oreki's theory is correct as far as it goes, but there's obviously more to it, and his blunder of leaving out the rope could have been easily avoided by checking back over the information they'd been given to make sure he hadn't missed anything. He didn't bother, so he screwed up. Really good episode, especially nice after the snooze-fest last week. I love the odd tension in the conversations between Oreki and Satoshi, they're always fascinating to watch. It'll be interesting to see Oreki's reaction to his stuff-up next week. |
| Na I think this was just one of Oreki's "Its all part of the plan." moments, he just messin with them =P Irisuuu senpai <3 for making Oreki blush :3 |
| @Dalek-baka That is the problem, so the truth won't be as same as his deduction but totally different |
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