Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Episode 12 Discussion

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Aug 2009

1530

I will confirm this to everyone.

Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica has ALWAYS BEEN PREDICTABLE from the start. I'm not sure why people are criticising for the ending. Every bit of situation and bit of settings were something that we've seen in other series or media and of course, this kind of ending was speculated since the first episode. Hell, even the fact about the loop was already known fact for some. That has never been what made Madoka Magica so great. It is how it was told, who it was executed, who those bits by bits united and developed, until this grand finale of bitter sweet ending. That's what makes this series something I can never forget.

Eva ending? I can finally tell you, nothing about it had any relationship with Eva except the god thing. Urobuchi ending isn't something you can compare with Anno Hideki's depression psychotic ending.

Apr 21, 2011 11:05 PM

#155

TheTsunami

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Jun 2007

553

zansabarshadow said:
SIDE NOTE: Isn't it a coincidence Madoka became god on Good Friday? It feels like SHAFT planned this delay XD I give them props for this.

I don't think it was a coincidence at all, myself. Not that I think the delay was planned all along (seems like another case where they couldn't finish in time, not the first time they've delayed the end of a series *coughBakemonogataricough*) but I think the decision to air both eps 11 and 12 together, on this day wasn't just happenstance.

Apr 21, 2011 11:14 PM

#156

DmonHiro

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Jan 2008

1895

There's something wrong with the rating system. It only goes as high as 10/10 for Madoka. Someone fix this.

Apr 21, 2011 11:14 PM

#157

Meddigo

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Dec 2007

865

ringoo4 said:
Eva ending? I can finally tell you, nothing about it had any relationship with Eva except the god thing. Urobuchi ending isn't something you can compare with Anno Hideki's depression psychotic ending.

No, no, no.

Pushing the reset button, writing the main character out of the world, and using skillz to fix the kinks of the old world were flat out copy and pasted from Serial Experiments Lain's ending. Hell, even Homura walking around and bumping into people who didn't remember Madoka was pretty much exactly how it went with Arisu walking around at the end of Lain.

Apr 21, 2011 11:19 PM

#158

Riga92

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Jun 2010

420

Here's my take on the ending.

Madoka's wish removed the existence of witches from the universe, in turn re-writing the whole universe. Her wish pretty much gave hope to all Puella Magi, for they now no longer have to worry about dieing and transforming into witches from their own despair.

HOWEVER, like how its been said multiple times that a wish that brings hope always brings an equal amount of despair, this is also true for Madoka's wish.

The removal of the witch system created a new system in the world which "demons" are born instead of witches. However, unlike witches, the demons are born from the negative emotions of every human, not just Puella Magi. Basically, her wish gave birth to an even more harsher system that cannot be broken, unless humanity ceases to exist. And as long as there are demons in the world, in order for humanity to survive, Puella Magi are still needed. This makes the final scene after the credits makes more sense. Probably after an unspecified amount of time, the world accumulated so much negative emotions that it gave birth to too many demons that eventually brought an apocalypse to the world and left Homura as possibly the only Puella Magi left standing.

In essence, Madoka's wish gave hope to Puella Magi, but at the price of giving the world more despair. Truly the perfect bittersweet ending imo...

Apr 21, 2011 11:21 PM

#159

MahouShoujoLain

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Jan 2010

364

Shotacat25 said:
I was in the same boat as a bunch of you. But i'm going to be completely honest here I thought the ending was magnificent. When you really think about how much the series built up to it it makes alot of sense. I know some of you may have had to endure that long time period between the last 2 eps but I started watching this just last week. I found myself so addicted that I watched them all in one sitting (well up to 10 where it stopped). I am more than satisfied with the way it ended, the first half even brought tears to my eyes, this was just such a genius anime. It all depends on how you look at it and I apologize, I can't even put what I perceived from the ending into words but it was a VERY appropriate way to end this. i seriously didn't get it until like 1 min after the end credits then I was just mind f*cked.

Ditto!!! I loved the end!!! It was so bitter sweet!!! Oh and I have to agree with what Ringoo4 said!!!

For those wha are confused what Im pretty sure happened is that Madoka changed The Mahou Shoujo Concept. It used to be:

*Make a wish with an Incubator (QB)

*Fight witches while cleaning soul gem as best you can

*Then they could eiter be killed by a witch or turn into a witch.

That was the path all of them led. It was there lives and fate.

What madokas wish did changed everything. The new Concept is like this:

*Make a contract (Maybe you get a wish it didn't say)

*Now witches never existed what they fight now are "demons". It was said this is because There will always be hate and negative emotions in the world your never going to have a totally Positive world so demons were born out of Humans hate/Negative emotions.

*Mahou Shoujos would fight these demons and then when the time comes they will "Fade out of exsistence" Thats what Mami said the new concept was.

Of course this isnt factual this is just what I percieved about it but I'm pretty sure its roughly like that. Oh and Madoka is now "God" lol. Well shes not God as in jesus god but shes atleast/definetly a divine entity!

So all in all a brilliant end to a brilliant anime! The end was executed perfectly and people we all saw Madoka becoming "God" so don't winge about it. Think of all the other things that happended. Didnt predict that did yous?

The very end of the ep was interesting to! I think those wings of Homuras are veryyy similar to the spacey place her and Madoka said goodbye in.

Apr 21, 2011 11:26 PM

#160

theamatomachine

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Oct 2009

34

greatest story ever told in 12 episodes

maybe of all time

Apr 21, 2011 11:31 PM

#161

Iri

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Apr 2007

1609

Deus ex voto ending.

Memo to self: Self, if I am ever the nexus of an infinite number of destinies and fate lines from across multiple worlds and times and suddenly have the ability to ask for one impossible wish with the power to change history and give me and everyone else a potentially unambiguously happy ending, actually ask for that instead of derping my way into voluntary self-sacrifice so I could justify having my name on the show.

Apr 21, 2011 11:32 PM

#162

holyflamez

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Dec 2010

50

Riga92 said:
Here's my take on the ending.

Madoka's wish removed the existence of witches from the universe, in turn re-writing the whole universe. Her wish pretty much gave hope to all Puella Magi, for they now no longer have to worry about dieing and transforming into witches from their own despair.

HOWEVER, like how its been said multiple times that a wish that brings hope always brings an equal amount of despair, this is also true for Madoka's wish.

The removal of the witch system created a new system in the world which "demons" are born instead of witches. However, unlike witches, the demons are born from the negative emotions of every human, not just Puella Magi. Basically, her wish gave birth to an even more harsher system that cannot be broken, unless humanity ceases to exist. And as long as there are demons in the world, in order for humanity to survive, Puella Magi are still needed. This makes the final scene after the credits makes more sense. Probably after an unspecified amount of time, the world accumulated so much negative emotions that it gave birth to too many demons that eventually brought an apocalypse to the world and left Homura as possibly the only Puella Magi left standing.

In essence, Madoka's wish gave hope to Puella Magi, but at the price of giving the world more despair. Truly the perfect bittersweet ending imo...

Bingo thats the feeling i was thinking and more glad u said it =P

Apr 21, 2011 11:34 PM

#163

holyflamez

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Dec 2010

50

hellfiredragon said:
I don't think Uribochi gets what a "Happy" ending is but this was brilliant. Completely go against the flow of the genre the entire season, then use every ending trope the genre is known for in the most deconstructive way possible. Brilliant.

On another note,

Finally, this is probably the only time that I can remember where godmoding a character hasn't felt out of place and wrong.

It kind of look like her but in the manga cover she looks short but thats what i see from the cover =P

Apr 21, 2011 11:37 PM

#164

holyflamez

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Dec 2010

50

TheTsunami said:
As I interpreted it...

Thats how i kind of seeing it

Apr 21, 2011 11:38 PM

#165

sauveterre

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Sep 2010

201

What.

I'm gonna go lurk 4chan a bit more...

Apr 21, 2011 11:38 PM

#166

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Jul 2009

338

LightningRamiel said:

Neogen said:
Also, another concept in Madoka is miracles and hope. I would hate to see that thrown away. But that's just my thoughts. How do you see it?

I always thought the point they were trying to make with that was that miracles and hope were a load of crap. I guess you can count this as a double subversion.

Yes, they played this throughout the whole story and then pulled this crap at the end.

The execution was terrible and made me want to puke. Madoka went from a (justifiably) scared 14 year old to the most pretentious and quixotic person in the universe, all in the matter of what? Two conversations?

Not to mention the shitload of plot elements introduced in the last episodes. And the worst part is the masses with eat it up like it's some sort of grandiose conclusion. It's not, it's just a gigantic copout to an otherwise great series.

Apr 21, 2011 11:50 PM

#167

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Jul 2009

338

Riga92 said:
Truly the perfect bittersweet ending imo...

It's not bittersweet though, it's just sweet, and exceedingly so. The emotional impact (or tragedy) that the series had been building from the beginning was that because of their naivety, these girls became the things they thought they were saving the world from. Now what? Madoka went god mode (on her terms), and created a world where girls fight demons. She created a stupid shounen.

It's just ridiculous on so many levels.

Apr 21, 2011 11:52 PM

#168

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Jul 2009

338

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:
The execution was terrible and made me want to puke. Madoka went from a (justifiably) scared 14 year old to the most pretentious and quixotic person in the universe, all in the matter of what? Two conversations?

A valid complaint, but there's a bit more to it than that. Madoka was getting more and more powerful (as was Homura) as the time looped, so when she finally signed the contract she gained a fuckload of power.
Just look at her as more like the ep10 version of herself rather than the current timeline. I doubt that it'll make much of a difference to you.

I don't think you understand what pretentious and quixotic means?

Apr 21, 2011 11:52 PM

#169

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Aug 2009

1530

Meddigo said:

ringoo4 said:
Eva ending? I can finally tell you, nothing about it had any relationship with Eva except the god thing. Urobuchi ending isn't something you can compare with Anno Hideki's depression psychotic ending.

No, no, no.

Pushing the reset button, writing the main character out of the world, and using skillz to fix the kinks of the old world were flat out copy and pasted from Serial Experiments Lain's ending. Hell, even Homura walking around and bumping into people who didn't remember Madoka was pretty much exactly how it went with Arisu walking around at the end of Lain.

Ah, I haven't watched Lain. That's pretty interesting. But, again, Madoka Magica never was entirely unique from the start.

At the end, Sayaka was... ;_;...

Sayaka was destined to get bad ending no matter what universe she is......

Apr 21, 2011 11:55 PM

#170

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Jul 2009

338

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:
Now what? Madoka went god mode (on her terms), and created a world where Magic Girls fight demons. She created a stupid shounen.

It's just ridiculous on so many levels.

No, she created the basic concept of a Mahou Shoujo. That was kind of the point- the deconstruction and then the reconstruction.

And that's the thing, the reconstruction was born of plot elements introduced in the last episode, and is devoid of the emotional impact of the first "world".

I thought the producers and directors wanted to produce a different type of show, but in the end showed me they wanted to produce the same crap you can find anywhere.

Love, friendship, and hope! Rainbows!!! WOOO!!!!

Apr 21, 2011 11:55 PM

#171

basicforesight

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Apr 2010

12

10/10 Madoka Love the realism spice which is way better than the regular boring sugar coated Mahou Shoujo.

Apr 21, 2011 11:55 PM

#172

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Jul 2009

338

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:
The execution was terrible and made me want to puke. Madoka went from a (justifiably) scared 14 year old to the most pretentious and quixotic person in the universe, all in the matter of what? Two conversations?

A valid complaint, but there's a bit more to it than that. Madoka was getting more and more powerful (as was Homura) as the time looped, so when she finally signed the contract she gained a fuckload of power.
Just look at her as more like the ep10 version of herself rather than the current timeline. I doubt that it'll make much of a difference to you.

I don't think you understand what pretentious and quixotic means?

I don't think you understand that she became a god-level being because of said power buildup?

Pretentious and quixotic are describing her personality....not her abilities...

Apr 21, 2011 11:58 PM

#173

Northwestern

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Dec 2010

11

I think it's the best anime I've ever seen. lol

Apr 21, 2011 11:59 PM

#174

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Jul 2009

338

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:

Iisan-kun said:

controlmajortom said:
The execution was terrible and made me want to puke. Madoka went from a (justifiably) scared 14 year old to the most pretentious and quixotic person in the universe, all in the matter of what? Two conversations?

A valid complaint, but there's a bit more to it than that. Madoka was getting more and more powerful (as was Homura) as the time looped, so when she finally signed the contract she gained a fuckload of power.
Just look at her as more like the ep10 version of herself rather than the current timeline. I doubt that it'll make much of a difference to you.

I don't think you understand what pretentious and quixotic means?

I don't think you understand that she became a god-level being because of said power buildup?

Pretentious and quixotic are describing her personality....not her abilities...

She's fucking god, what do you expect?

Her personality changed BEFORE she signed the contract. HERP DERP

Apr 22, 2011 12:00 AM

#175

DrHouse

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Jun 2009

1371

controlmajortom said:

LightningRamiel said:

Neogen said:
Also, another concept in Madoka is miracles and hope. I would hate to see that thrown away. But that's just my thoughts. How do you see it?

I always thought the point they were trying to make with that was that miracles and hope were a load of crap. I guess you can count this as a double subversion.

Yes, they played this throughout the whole story and then pulled this crap at the end.

The execution was terrible and made me want to puke. Madoka went from a (justifiably) scared 14 year old to the most pretentious and quixotic person in the universe, all in the matter of what? Two conversations?

Not to mention the shitload of plot elements introduced in the last episodes. And the worst part is the masses with eat it up like it's some sort of grandiose conclusion. It's not, it's just a gigantic copout to an otherwise great series.

Well, I thought that there was supposed to be an equal amount of despair to the hope and vice versa. In that view, this ending was perfect. But if you had your heart set on some ridiculous "realistic" grimdark ending, then I'm not going to try to convince you.

Apr 22, 2011 12:04 AM

#176

Riga92

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Jun 2010

420

controlmajortom said:

Riga92 said:
Truly the perfect bittersweet ending imo...

It's not bittersweet though, it's just sweet, and exceedingly so. The emotional impact (or tragedy) that the series had been building from the beginning was that because of their naivety, these girls became the things they thought they were saving the world from. Now what? Madoka went god mode (on her terms), and created a world where girls fight demons. She created a stupid shounen.

It's just ridiculous on so many levels.

Did you not read my entire post? If you analyze the episode a bit more, you realize that the world is pretty much still the same, and arguably even worse. Although hope was given to the Puella Magi, the world still suffers from despair. The ending scene HEAVILY implies that demons caused an apocalypse, leaving Homura as maybe the only magical girl left.

It's fine if you truly believe it isn't bittersweet. To each their own.

Apr 22, 2011 12:05 AM

#177

Akamitsu

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Apr 2010

1909

Well I liked it.

Apr 22, 2011 12:05 AM

#178

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Jul 2009

338

DrHouse said:
[Well, I thought that there was supposed to be an equal amount of despair to the hope and vice versa. In that view, this ending was perfect. But if you had your heart set on some ridiculous "realistic" grimdark ending, then I'm not going to try to convince you.

I don't like it when shows throw out a bunch of plot elements in the final seconds to try and please the audience, which is what I think they did here.

I don't think there was any despair in the final episode, at least in regards to the conflict that was brewing the entire series. Just my opinion though. I have to feel something in order for there to be some sort of emotional impact, and I definitely felt nothing here.

Apr 22, 2011 12:06 AM

#179

Iri

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Apr 2007

1609

Iisan-kun said:

Iri said:
Deus ex voto ending.

Memo to self: Self, if I am ever the nexus of an infinite number of destinies and fate lines from across multiple worlds and times and suddenly have the ability to ask for one impossible wish with the power to change history and give me and everyone else a potentially unambiguously happy ending, actually ask for that instead of derping my way into voluntary self-sacrifice so I could justify having my name on the show.

Tell me one wish that you believe to be superior. Remember, it has the be a single wish that satisfies all possible views of the problem in question; you're supposed to be God. Remember, you cannot merely think of yourselves or your friends.

Instead of "I wish to erase every witch from history before they are born with my own hands", how about "I wish that, from the very beginning, when a soul gem depletes that the magical girl becomes a normal girl again instead of a witch." Or if she wants to think big, since she's god now, in addition to continuing with their normal lives, they also get a bonus piece of Mami's cake as a complimentary parting gift for playing the magical girl game.

Apr 22, 2011 12:07 AM

#180

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1530

controlmajortom said:
I don't think there was any despair in the final episode, at least in regards to the conflict that was brewing the entire series. Just my opinion though. I have to feel something in order for there to be some sort of emotional impact, and I definitely felt nothing here.

So, you are saying Sayaka disappeared/died for nothing and it was nothing had to do with despair right?... Or everyone forgeting about Madoka? Or Puella Magis are still bounded by Kyuube's contraction and still has to risk themselves, and sacrifice in order to kill demons?

Yep. Totally happy.

Apr 22, 2011 12:08 AM

#181

kuroshi_nazo

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Jan 2011

81

This may just be the most torrented episode in Anime history. My GG torrents show 3306 seeds/2703 peers for episode 11 and 3397 seeds/2253 peers for episode 12. Wow!

The friendly naked cuddling seemed a little lesbian to me.

kuroshi_nazoApr 22, 2011 12:14 AM

Apr 22, 2011 12:08 AM

#182

Cloudseven

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Nov 2009

38

This is one of the best animes I have ever seen. 10/10 loved it

Apr 22, 2011 12:09 AM

#183

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Jul 2009

338

Riga92 said:

controlmajortom said:

Riga92 said:
Truly the perfect bittersweet ending imo...

It's not bittersweet though, it's just sweet, and exceedingly so. The emotional impact (or tragedy) that the series had been building from the beginning was that because of their naivety, these girls became the things they thought they were saving the world from. Now what? Madoka went god mode (on her terms), and created a world where girls fight demons. She created a stupid shounen.

It's just ridiculous on so many levels.

Did you not read my entire post? If you analyze the episode a bit more, you realize that the world is pretty much still the same, and arguably even worse. Although hope was given to the Puella Magi, the world still suffers from despair. The ending scene HEAVILY implies that demons caused an apocalypse, leaving Homura as maybe the only magical girl left.

It's fine if you truly believe it isn't bittersweet. To each their own.

Do you mean the last scene? Even if we assume that your theory is true, any of the emotional impact from the rest of the series is gone. The show barely gave two shits about the world, so why should we? It was entirely focused on Madoka's (and Majou Shoujos) tragedy, and at least in my view, gave her a pretty happy ending. I'm sorry, but I'm just not going to care about a conflict they threw together in 5 minutes.

Apr 22, 2011 12:12 AM

#184

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Aug 2009

1530

controlmajortom said:
Even if we assume that your theory is true, any of the emotional impact from the rest of the series is gone.

You think emotional impact was gone, a lot of us don't. You don't need to force that fact too often if you are really trying to communicate with us.

Apr 22, 2011 12:12 AM

#185

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Jul 2009

338

ringoo4 said:

controlmajortom said:
Even if we assume that your theory is true, any of the emotional impact from the rest of the series is gone.

You think emotional impact was gone, others don't. You don't need to force that fact too often if you are really trying to communicate with us.

I never said you had to agree with me. Taking the unpopular opinion is well...taking the unpopular opinion. I'm sorry if you felt that way about my posts.

Apr 22, 2011 12:14 AM

#186

Merciless

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Jun 2009

122

Meh the ending was alright. Can't say I went in expecting what one would be but this was ok. Though I do think the scene were she goes to all the other girls and removes the grief just by touching them was a joke. Then factor in this Good Friday stuff....... -_- really? But like I said, it was ok...wasn't all touchy-feely, wrap up the whole series in rainbows, sunshine, and happiness. Would have hated something like that.

Not sure how I'd rate this though because I was loving it right up until the break and I think the time between then and now takes away from it. I'd marathon it just to figure out how I feel about the series as a whole but doing that can't match how I reacted to the twists and surprises that hit me throughout.

All I can say it's between 7-9/10

Apr 22, 2011 12:14 AM

#187

Skeeturz

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Feb 2010

148

Dat ending

Definitely not what I'd expect from Gen, but I was content with it.

Apr 22, 2011 12:15 AM

#188

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Aug 2009

1530

controlmajortom said:

ringoo4 said:

controlmajortom said:
Even if we assume that your theory is true, any of the emotional impact from the rest of the series is gone.

You think emotional impact was gone, others don't. You don't need to force that fact too often if you are really trying to communicate with us.

I never said you had to agree with me. Taking the unpopular opinion is well...taking the unpopular opinion. I'm sorry if you felt that way about my posts.

If that's the fact, at least prevent from being too deterministic with posts and try to actually support it with the much more specific detail from the solid presentation that was given in the scene. Otherwise, it is nothing more than attention seeking.

Apr 22, 2011 12:17 AM

#189