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| i have really mixed feelings about this |
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| The "Perfect Suicide" for Johan was clearly to be killed by Tenma, the only person in the world that have shown concern and saved his life (with the thought that everyone's life is equal) to the point that he consider him his Father. Also that mention to the monster of seven heads by the drunk man was pretty cool and explains all the intro of the first episode. |
| Tenma is one of the most useless 'hero' in anime history. Even Nina could shoot his brother as a child. He chased Johan for ages, then he just stood on his knees with a dramatic face. Didn't his instructor taught him first 'don't point with a gun if you aren't ready for use it'?! Idiot. A big one. It's even more annoying that everybody during the anime was all 'dr. Tenma, doctor Tenma'. Fawning over such a useless character. Meh. I know it's morbid but it's quite 'funny' - although it was said that everybody died in the massacre of 511 - we still met a lot of kids from it :DD Well, I'm not complaining, since the best part of the Monster was how the characters were connected each other in the past and the present too. |
| And this losing the lottery ticket and saving Johan again... too stupid :S |
| The surviving town citizen have a lot of rough days ahead of themselves... sadly no matter how much you try you can’t forgive that type of even, it is like a scar you may heal but as soon as you see the scar you remember the events that got you that scar... By Tenma saving Johan live again(?) he is going to teach him that you always have a choice in life... If Johan survives I want him to face the full weight of the law/justice system. bakuramariks said: +1I have a feeling Tenma was really, really about to shoot him! Now when i think about it, i am absolutely sure he was going to pull the triger. But Wim's dad was first Pirating_Ninja said: +1No it kind of makes sense why Tenma is going to save Johann, It was more a story of looking deeply into how a monster was created. The very end shows that 1 single event was the difference between being a monster and not being a monster when Nina remembers Poppe telling her not to become a monster. You take two identical twins and get two completely different outcomes from just one phrase. Also the bit about Dr. Tenma saving Johann again is really just to play in to his character, he will always do what is right, it shows that he still deep down believes that all lives are equal. If he didn't do this Tenma would instead be some panzy that can't even stay true to his convictions. Mich666 said: +1Yeah, irony in the end. And great dilemma for Tenma. His choice to save Wim's father from jail and preserve his peaceful childhood was right. isobel said: but i couldnt get why Nina forgives him? he is still her brother, no matter what. And about Nina may I add that forgiveness doesn’t necessarily mean she don’t want him to face justice it just that she wants him to stop this nonsense, stop the vicious cycle... SomaHeir said: This...so Roberto dies because of his injuries(Lunge pretty much made him bleed to dead) as far as not killing Lunge, he already said he wanted to see the world end. of course he did mention in the last episode that Lunge won't be seeing that world. but i think he just wanted to get away and meet Johan as soon as possible since he knows he doesn't have much time. MrAM said: I couldn't have said it better myself.This episode was brilliant on all levels. Just perfectly directed, extremely suspenseful, and heavy with meaning. To people who thought that Monster was about Tenma's quest to kill Johan, this was no doubt a disappointing episode. But to be honest, I don't think the show was ever about whether or not Tenma would kill Johan. It was about its title- monsters. What is evil? What causes it to emerge in human beings? How does fear affect the human mind? What is the value of life? Most of the time the anime didn't even focus on enma's quest- it was far more concerned with the lives of even the most minor characters, their interactions, and with Johan's long and complicated past. Johan clearly wanted to die here. This episode makes it clear that the difference between him and his twin sister was almost nonexistent. They took totally different paths in life, simply due to one separate experience. Poppe told Anna not to become a monster. She didn't. But Johan never got that comfort, and it ties into the theme that was shown repeatedly, over and over, throughout the series: that childhood, and the people involved it, shape a person's personality and actions for their whole lives. That's why Johan twisted the minds of children, and why Tenma tried so hard not to let that happen to the kids he met. There is something incredibly poetic about Johan's demise. In the end, the one to shoot him wasn't Tenma, wasn't Nina, wasn't Poppe, wasn't Lunge- no one we would have expected. It was a random drunken man who wanted to protect his son. I admit, the suddenness of that scene made my heart drop. Bam, and it was over, one buller shot from a random gun from a random man. Johan, the great, unbeatable monster, brought down in a split second from a father protecting his son- a father that Johan never got to have. And now, in a brilliant parallel to the first episode, Johan is likely to be saved by Tenma again. Ultimately, despite his long journey, his determination, his love of life, Tenma didn't pull the trigger, and he will once again revive the monster he was so desperate to put down. |
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| Finally Roberto is dead I won't miss him, because he technically killed Grimmer :( Looks like Johan is going to be saved again I don't think he can be forgiven for his crime But who knows |
"Signature removed"   |
| I dunno, I'm not too sure I'm thrilled that at the end of the day it was some random drunk who "killed" Johan. I mean it's like Tenma didn't develop much and worse yet he was sitting there not shooting Johan while a kid's life was in danger. How much of a fool does he have to be to place his own morals and justice over the life of an innocent kid? Granted maybe that's intentionally written as a flaw of his but Tenma never has to pay the price for his folly. Then freaking Nina, who the hell is she to forgive Johan and say his life is precious? It's like she wants to overlook the insane number of bodies Johan has racked up over time. So all in all I guess I can see why people usually seem let down by the ending but I guess I'm not at the ending yet. One episode left... |
| Shoot me a friend request on Nintendo systems (georgethecow) or Sony (discipledoctor)! Together we can make each other feel like we know people! |
| So much poetic irony in one single episode... This has to be one of the best anime episodes ever! |
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| Back to where we started, I see. Now then, how will the series conclude? I'm curious. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| It would have been cool if tenma just shot him without flinching and said "yes, I'm gonna shoot you, monster, that's what I prepared for all this time" BANG! BANG! |
| The descision to save Johan was the only right choice here. But I'm honestly surprised that Wim's drunk dad ended up being the one to bring Johan down. This series is unpredictable. The climax has been nothing short of amazing and I'm sure the epilogue will be as well. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Dude what was the point of chasing him around for 70+ eps???? |
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| There's a fine line between this being ridiculous and genius. I don't truly know, but I want to believe this is genius. |
MrAM said: Give me a moment, I'm wrapping my head around what I just saw. I looked through the thread and was surprised at how many people loved this episode. I expected more backlash, because technically all the buildup was for nothing, and Tenma's quest was pointless because in the end he wasn't the one to shoot, and now Johan, the mass murderer, will likely survive, etc. But I disagree with all of that. This episode was brilliant on all levels. Just perfectly directed, extremely suspenseful, and heavy with meaning. To people who thought that Monster was about Tenma's quest to kill Johan, this was no doubt a disappointing episode. But to be honest, I don't think the show was ever about whether or not Tenma would kill Johan. It was about its title- monsters. What is evil? What causes it to emerge in human beings? How does fear affect the human mind? What is the value of life? Most of the time the anime didn't even focus on enma's quest- it was far more concerned with the lives of even the most minor characters, their interactions, and with Johan's long and complicated past. Johan clearly wanted to die here. This episode makes it clear that the difference between him and his twin sister was almost nonexistent. They took totally different paths in life, simply due to one separate experience. Poppe told Anna not to become a monster. She didn't. But Johan never got that comfort, and it ties into the theme that was shown repeatedly, over and over, throughout the series: that childhood, and the people involved it, shape a person's personality and actions for their whole lives. That's why Johan twisted the minds of children, and why Tenma tried so hard not to let that happen to the kids he met. There is something incredibly poetic about Johan's demise. In the end, the one to shoot him wasn't Tenma, wasn't Nina, wasn't Poppe, wasn't Lunge- no one we would have expected. It was a random drunken man who wanted to protect his son. I admit, the suddenness of that scene made my heart drop. Bam, and it was over, one buller shot from a random gun from a random man. Johan, the great, unbeatable monster, brought down in a split second from a father protecting his son- a father that Johan never got to have. And now, in a brilliant parallel to the first episode, Johan is likely to be saved by Tenma again. Ultimately, despite his long journey, his determination, his love of life, Tenma didn't pull the trigger, and he will once again revive the monster he was so desperate to put down. This episode could be seen as anti-climactic by some, but Monster was never the kind of show to have massive, epic action scenes. It was very simply done, in a silent town in the middle of nowhere, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. God bless this post. |
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| LMAO that ending was so damn insane, instantly watching ep 74 |
| Signature removed. Please have a positive iq. |
| Once again, Tenma doesn't have the balls to shoot. Good thing the random drunkard was there. Anna...I couldn't stand her "I forgive you" speech near the end; what about all the people whose lives Johan took, directly or indirectly? Did she think the man holding his baby, whose wife had just been shot to death, who wanted to get revenge, would forgive Johan for destroying his family? Or the Fortners, the foster parents she grew up with who took her in and offered her a loving home? You have no right to "forgive" someone for taking other people's lives, idiot. Really wished this anime cliché didn't rear its ugly head here. Interesting test to see Tenma go through, though the outcome is predictable. |
| ----------Tenma---------- Shot: 1 Kill: 0 Yeah just powered up Johan with an illusion ability, the show won't explain it anyway. Oh Tenma you want to revive Johan, because you want to be the one to kill him don't you? JK. |
| He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame. |
| wim's father is the true hero of the story, he had the balls to shoot a guy who was threatening his kid, and after that he confessed to the polizei. On the other hand, we have johan, who's a loser and didn't even got through that weird stuff that his sister went. He killed because he's evil and a siscon, he had 0 reasons. I hope he dies |
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| What a hell of a twist, quite ironic to say the least. This anime never ceases to surprise me, I loved the standoff between Tenma and Johan |
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| I have not done a forum post for this series at all thus far. But I feel this episode more than warrants it. This episode was amazing, incredible, words cannot explain how much I loved it. And most of the people who have commented nailed my thoughts on this episode. In order for Tenma to not succumb to Johan's ideology he must himself believe in it and not stray from it. Choosing to not make Tenma kill ANYONE is more than just a means to keep his identity as a doctor, it distinguishes any hypocrisy his world view would have evoked. It draws such a beautiful parallel with Johan and Tenma that I cannot began to describe. 100000/10. One more to go! |
| great episode! at the end, tenma didn't pulled the trigger, he may be can take life or give by priority who to operate, but to pull the trigger were in the end of the line for him. juhan just wanted to burry himself, and once again, tenma going to rescue him, because as we seen in the series, tenma that so wanted to kill the monster, he needs to kill the monster inside him. |
| Truly a show that is master of twists . None saw Johan’s death coming, the fact that not one of the well established characters in the story got the chance to shoot Johan is just insane surprise itself. The most terrifying and feared man out there got killed by a drunk fool who was witnessing him as a true monster and wanted to protect his son. I’m just happy that Tenma didn’t had to claim his life because it wouldn’t be right for such a humanity loving person to do this kind of thing. Now about other things in the episode, Lunge being alive at the end felt very important because his testimony might actually be enough to clear Tenma’s name. Roberto coming last moment and dying on spot without seeing the day of doom was another fantastic scene. After all he felt like a monster more than Johan or anyone else, but things that took place during his childhood just make him seem another poor wictim of horrible human expierimenting. I’m pretty sure its safe to say that this was brilliant episode and not much more to add. |
| We've come full circle now, with Tenma facing another moral dilemma and finally deciding to save Johan once again. I like the message of this episode honestly. I had a feeling that he wouldn't be the one to shoot Johan tbh. Talk about lucky though, Johan didn't instantly die from a headshot twice. Next episode is called the real monster, this will definitely be impactful. |
| Quite ironic he's now in the same scenario. Rest in piss Ronaldo. |
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| And it all comes full circle... |
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| We finally see johan and I wasn't expecting him to get shot by the dad of all people. It looks like tenma is gonna save him again though? Not sure how I feel about that but this was a great episode. |
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| WTF WTF WTF. he gon save Johan again? |
| That was insane. What a huge twist. |
| That passage from the intro it's a quote from the bible that's talking about the arrival of the antichrist, so...Johan is the antichrist? idk if i can believe in this |
| so does johan have a skull of titanium or what at least lunge didn't die, he can single-handedly save tenma i hope this experience gets the drunk guy sober |
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| tenma's still hesitating to shoot johan after all this time?????????????????????? tenma's saving johan again??????????????????????????? fuck this |
| After all these chaotic events, I can't believe Wim's deadbeat dad was the one to shoot Johan in his head for a second time. Truly a strange and ironic fate for Tenma with him being the only one who can save the life of the monster once again |
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| Absolutely brilliant how the story is written. I'm not good with words when it comes to masterpieces. |
MrAM said: Give me a moment, I'm wrapping my head around what I just saw. I looked through the thread and was surprised at how many people loved this episode. I expected more backlash, because technically all the buildup was for nothing, and Tenma's quest was pointless because in the end he wasn't the one to shoot, and now Johan, the mass murderer, will likely survive, etc. But I disagree with all of that. This episode was brilliant on all levels. Just perfectly directed, extremely suspenseful, and heavy with meaning. To people who thought that Monster was about Tenma's quest to kill Johan, this was no doubt a disappointing episode. But to be honest, I don't think the show was ever about whether or not Tenma would kill Johan. It was about its title- monsters. What is evil? What causes it to emerge in human beings? How does fear affect the human mind? What is the value of life? Most of the time the anime didn't even focus on enma's quest- it was far more concerned with the lives of even the most minor characters, their interactions, and with Johan's long and complicated past. Johan clearly wanted to die here. This episode makes it clear that the difference between him and his twin sister was almost nonexistent. They took totally different paths in life, simply due to one separate experience. Poppe told Anna not to become a monster. She didn't. But Johan never got that comfort, and it ties into the theme that was shown repeatedly, over and over, throughout the series: that childhood, and the people involved it, shape a person's personality and actions for their whole lives. That's why Johan twisted the minds of children, and why Tenma tried so hard not to let that happen to the kids he met. There is something incredibly poetic about Johan's demise. In the end, the one to shoot him wasn't Tenma, wasn't Nina, wasn't Poppe, wasn't Lunge- no one we would have expected. It was a random drunken man who wanted to protect his son. I admit, the suddenness of that scene made my heart drop. Bam, and it was over, one buller shot from a random gun from a random man. Johan, the great, unbeatable monster, brought down in a split second from a father protecting his son- a father that Johan never got to have. And now, in a brilliant parallel to the first episode, Johan is likely to be saved by Tenma again. Ultimately, despite his long journey, his determination, his love of life, Tenma didn't pull the trigger, and he will once again revive the monster he was so desperate to put down. This episode could be seen as anti-climactic by some, but Monster was never the kind of show to have massive, epic action scenes. It was very simply done, in a silent town in the middle of nowhere, and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. This. Perfect suicide - Committed |
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| Oh my fucking god... the plot armour in this show, I swear. Roberto somehow managed to repel Lunge despite having his brains about to be blown out and when he miraculously gets the upper-hand... he decides to knock Lunge out instead of killing him as it was his initial intention? What? What's up with this sudden out-of-character action? Also, surprise! Now it seems Johan's brain is made out of slime or some shit. Two shots to the head and he doesn't die instantly in both occasions? Maybe Monster actually deserves a Supernatural tag after all. And Tenma... the always goody two-shoes Tenma. What an annoying character he has become in this last handful of episodes. Incredible how after more than 70 episodes of buildup, he has barely developed as character or as a person. He didn't kill Johan when he had the chance back in the Schuwald arc and as a result, lots of other people died because of his obsolete morality and now when he has the chance to slightly redeem himself, he doesn't do shit again and we have to bring the random abusive drunk-tard with sniper-level aim to save the day. Seriously, such a wonderful writing. And of course he's gonna save the so called "Monster" (described as the freaking "antichrist" this same episode) again. His ridiculous ideals are just that strong. So yeah, in the end all the buildup was for nothing and it's more than clear that Tenma will never have the balls to do the necessary in an extreme situation. All this because the author wanted to give the lamest message of forgiveness I have ever seen. |
| Ain’t no way man It all comes back full circle a part of me is glad that after all that’s happened Tenma was able to stick to his morals that all life is created equal and still decided to save Johan |
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JDO27 said: About human vs monster as in:can anyone make a summary of the main plot of the series? 1. Humanity - the good side of humans 2. Monstrosity - the bad side of humans Highest and lowest quality of each side: 1. Valuing human lives "Human lives are equal" - Tenma (ep 4) 2. Not valuing human lives "The only thing humans are equal in, is, death" - Johan (ep 73) Tho neither of them represents each side embodimentally as both of them have shown the opposite sides of their own. Same with every other character. |
| I didn't realise this anime would be a circular narrative... |
| I'm speechless, this episode is brilliant, the atmosphere is just too creepy and terrifying. I thought the fight between Tenma and Johan were last longer but that's okay though Good that Lunge survived that large death flag, not really surprised about Tenma trying to save Johan because he's a kind-hearted but the fact that Johan was killed by Wim father is kinda hilarious |
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| Are you fucking kidding me anime? How does a single episode get so much wrong so suddenly? The main villain who we've just spectating wandering around with the main characters the last several episodes, foreshadowed for the longest time, turns out to be not such a bad guy? Give me a break. Roberto's bullshit teleporting and immortality comes back again, I mean, everyone in this show literally does, even that abusive dad walks at the right time just so this show can rub its themes in your face one more time. And as contrived as it already is, why's fucking Runge the one to suggest saving Johan? Why don't we ask our empty shell of a protagonist? No better way to insult me after investing hours into this shit |
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