VN fan are annoying as Hell

Fate’s my favorite franchise without having read the VN. But even still I’d call the original 2006 Fate Mid at best. The animation is not good, and the year doesn’t matter because far better looking shows came out at the same time and before it. Story spoilers and where to start is always a touchy subject because I think it’s from person to person. I started FZ only because I heard it was good, but other people may want a chronological story, or want to see an adaptation of the OG Stay Night first and watch UBW. My friend got into Fate through Apocrypha because the other ones were too slow for him at first. It’s why so many, me included, want a Ufotable Fate route. Plus if it means anything, Shirou currently is my favorite anime protagonist. And it wast absolutely not because of the 2006 show. It was a combination of his Ufotable adaptations, VN readers telling me what he’s actually like, and all his other versions across the franchise adding up, but starting at 2006 did not give the best first impression.

I think the argument applies to source fans in general not on specific anime lol

tldr, I just read first 2 lines, I don't know about the VN route and stuff but I still didn't like the anime, so much so that I never went ahead to watch the sequels

Sorry I meant source fans of all anime as well not just other fate shows. Like someone else said 1:1 is super hard and all they do is compare it like it matters.

That's true.

However, it does damage the overall puzzle by very strongly hinting, or even blalantly spoiling pieces you are not supposed to know at that point. Continuing the series, be it with the other adaptations, or with the Visual Novel, would already be a weakened experience.



His goal was to make it a little bit closer to the Visual Novel, by removing the pieces damaging the puzzle. You can be a fan of it, or not, but it's not a bad thing. And dunno how that gives false impression ? That's something Zero is more known for.



Most people nowadays watch.ed the Blu-ray/Remaster Episodes tho, which makes the visuals worse with the brightness and more clear drawings.



I agree !



With the Visual Novel available, and even a full Anime adaptation nowadays, it shouldn't be taken as a stand-alone tho, and that's one of the major problem pointed out by the fans (without even talking about the comparison with Ufotable's takes for the normies)...



If i remember correctly, he really did not participate in the writing of the 2006 Anime.

We know from interviews that he was the one choosing the Voice Actors (with Takeuchi), and that he gave suggestions on how to split the story on 24 Episodes, but that's all. He liked a few concepts introduced in the Anime tho, like the Overedge of Archer, and deemed that adaptation as another possible Route, close to the Fate one.

I don't see how he could be more involved than how he was in UBW tho, he basically was the one directing everything, until he was pretty much side lined by Kondo because of his "I need to change that" syndrome...

Overall, the 2006 Anime is far from perfect, but i'm part of those who keep recommending it, because that's the best introduction we currently have in Animes. That's a little bit sad that the Visual Novel fans are too focused on the puzzle to realize that, and that the newcomers wants Ufotable more than anything...

Oh, indeed. I never heard of that Spiritual Artbook, so now i'm kinda curious about it.

Edit : In the Kara no Kyoukai interview, Nasu imply that he was almost not involved at all in the Tsukihime and Deen/Stay Night, tho (same when he did the interview for the Realta Nua port). As usual, there is this opaque filter in what the Authors says about their works, which makes it hard to discern the truthes.



I believe his re-write syndrome was not that huge back then, so i don't think it would have changed a lot, anyway.
But i admit that i'm scared of what he would have done to UBW and HF, if no one forced him to consider that the story was good like that...



Maybe it makes it worse, but that's how it should be, if we include it as part of a larger series. I would not call it a false impression tho; that would even be the opposite.

Edit : Anyway, it was an adaptation from another era for Type-Moon, and if you look at other series adapting Visual Novels, they near all merge Routes too. There is no doubt that Novels have more room to make a better narrative, due to liberty of having lot of texts without feeling slow to the reader. I definitely wouldn't say no to a Remake of the Fate Route tho, especially if we get the Ufotable artstyle and animation, with the Last Episode made public ! So yeah, i'll keep recommending the 2006 Anime, even if it may irks other Visual Novels fans, or Ufotable normies.

Kondo and Iwakami said in an interview (for the Blu-rays of UBW, if i remember correctly) that they both wanted to re-adapt the Fate Route (for Saber), but ultimately went with UBW, after Aniplex forced them (which is something often mentioned as an argument for "Ufotable/Aniplex respects Deen's work") because there was quarrels between Kondo (who wanted Fate), Miura (UBW) and Sudou (HF).



Fair.

To be frank, i actually did not even watched that edit. No matter what it does, it is in fact not what the adaptation really is, so i always avoid such things (and that's also why i never skip fillers episodes either).

But yeah, it makes it closer the the Visual Novel, which was the assumed intend (if we are both talking about ssjokg's edit). He's still very active on MAL and Reddit, so you could try to discuss with him (or people on Reddit, that's here that the community really is), to see what he has to say.



I don't see where the "many" original parts are, but honestly, my memories of UBW in the Visual Novel are very hazy, so i'm not in the best position to reply back. (I would need to re-read it, alongside Hollow Ataraxia and Mahoutsukai no Yoru, but i'm too lazy, and i have too many things to read...)

I know the changes of Archer vs Shirô always were very well welcomed by all, but things like vs Gilgamesh were not. Overall, the show originally received a lot of mixed opinions and even hate from the community back then, and you can probably still find huge text pads on Reddit ranting about how bad Miura is, and how he ruined UBW. It just quickly disappeared because the artstyle and animation is just too great, and it does not feels as bad as Deen's take. Edit : And each Routes are of different genre, and UBW's epic simply is what is generally way more liked.

These infos are of no relevance, tho.

Kondo didn't want to do a new adaptation at first, but he finally did, and we already know that Nasu finally just dropped the matter and went for UBW too. The "it would need a re-write!" is related to his syndrome, where he wish to re-write everything that he already published, and in this case it only was an excuse, as he also was about to re-write the whole UBW Route (he implied that he wished to remove all the "grim and gore" stuff of the story), anyway...



Of course ! Especially as we are talking about Japan, that's how the people there are (publicly, at least).
But it's often used as a "proof" of why Ufotable would never touch the Fate Route, which is just false.



Well, he's not wrong.

Mixing Routes always was something hated by the whole Anime community, just like fillers episodes. That simply was something "necessary" with how the industry was back then, and it's sad that it was.

With the filters put in front of every public interview and official claim, it's not crazy to think that there is a manipulation done in the name of the Author, when it's in reality blatant lies. It very often was done with Dragon Ball and Toriyama, for example. If it's not manipulations, and that Nasu really participated in the writing of the 2006 Anime, then it's not wrong to say that he was wrong in what he did, as he ruined parts of his own story/puzzle. Again, that was necessary back then tho, so nothing to really do about it; the only good choice is to read the Visual Novel first, which is something almost no one want to do... so yeah, an edit is not a bad idea, even if it may lower the quality of the Anime itself.

he, these info come from the official japanese wiki and are sourced


I would have loved it.
The Ufotable version of UBW was way too dark, far more than the VN feeling. it's like they wanted to please Fate Zero fan. One thing Deen version of both Fate and UBW have more than Ufotable one is the mood of the 2 first route of the VN.
the VN was wrote just after typemoon doujin era while it still was an eroge and it still have this doujin spirit being dark but very silly in same time (even if less than Tsukihime). And actually I am a fan from this era (I don't like Tsukihime remake by exemple, I am a fan of original Tsukihime and original Meltyblood and fan disk like Kagetsu toyha and Hollow Ataraxia, actually Carnival Phantasm is for me the best typemoon anime).
The Ufotable version is more an updated version to please typemoon community from 2010's who came to typemoon for Fate Zero (and now for Ufotable version)


actually, no, it was not always hated, it's in fact something rather "new".

For Fate, I never seen that before late 2009 at best. And during the airing of fate 2006 everybody was happy about it, the people were also saying they would be upset if the story would have stick to Fate route. For Key adaptation, many people complain about Clannad and Air movie because they just adapt the main heroine Route. And Tsukihime manga is seen as an excellent adaptation while it mix route.

And actually, It's really an issue only in western community, I have read many review of Fate 2006 on anikore, the japanese MAL and actually where there is critics about sexist Shirou, slow paced first half and low quality animation(only after 2011 for this point), nobody complain about mixing route. The japanese care far less about spoiler, it make them want to know more (the japanese movie trailer are always full of spoiler).
actually Fate 2006 is not rated that much lower than UBW in japan (3,8 against 4,1)

And for "filler", it's something that anime community don't like but most of other community like it, in fact actually, if you watch movie and TV serie adaptation of novel and comics, they are most of the time not faithful to source material.
And once again, in anime community, it has not always been the case in the 80/90's, nobody complained about filler and not faithful adaptation. And once against japanese fan are less annoyed by that (so much they don't call it filler but "anime original" and consider it canon for the anime)


actually, I don't agree with that, it's still from another route, if we are against mixing route, it's also apply to put Fate content in UBW route. If the serie is made to be watched after Fate adaptation, it's redondant and if it's for newcomers, it's spoil.

And actually Saber vs Assassin is the only fight from Fate 2006 who can be seen as better than into Ufotable adaptation (maybe because Deen have some history with swordfight series)

I didn't read mahotsukai no yoru, I am not interested by post 2010 type moon titles.


Garden of Sinners was also by Ufotable, Fate adaptation by Ufotable have pretty similar mood with same chara designer, some similar director and same composer for heaven feel movie.