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matraph00Sep 8, 2023 1:00 AM
Are they good or bad? It’s not about killing people (either them being Japaneses or Britannians) or which side you are on. There are good and evil people on both side. It’s about their beliefs. Yes Suzaku is on the wrong side but he is still trying to help people, only by not starting a war. And in fact, Suzaku’s way would probably have worked at some point and maybe even someday made the Japaneses people equal to the Britannians. Only a lot more people would have died before they got there without a revolution. So Suzaku is 100% good. Ok maybe 99%. He is not doing what he does to oppress and kill people. He does it to end the war and bring back peace because he doesn’t want people to die in a war. Marianne has the same goal than Charles but how is she as a person? Did she share the beliefs with Charles that if you are weak, you should die? Maybe she disapproved of him oppressing the weak but she still was with him because she approved of his plan as a whole. Take Game of Thrones for example. Marjory married Joffrey but she wasn’t evil like him. She had the same objectives as him as to rule the kingdom. But she was helping the poors and being kind to them. She is good or at least neutral, while Joffrey is pure evil. Same for Marianne, as far as we know since we never saw her oppress anyone or help anyone. She could be good or evil but for now she just seems to be neutral aka doing her own shit and not caring |
matraph00Sep 8, 2023 10:47 AM
| What did Milly do that puts her in the "chaotic neutral" category? |
matraph00 said: Are they good or bad? It’s not about killing people (either them being Japaneses or Britannians) or which side you are on. There are good and evil people on both side. It’s about their beliefs. Yes Suzaku is on the wrong side but he is still trying to help people, only by not starting a war. And in fact, Suzaku’s way would probably have worked at some point and maybe even someday made the Japaneses people equal to the Britannians. Only a lot more people would have died before they got there without a revolution. So Suzaku is 100% good. Ok maybe 99%. He is not doing what he does to oppress and kill people. He does it to end the war and bring back peace because he doesn’t want people to die in a war. Marianne has the same goal than Charles but how is she as a person? Did she share the beliefs with Charles that if you are weak, you should die? Maybe she disapproved of him oppressing the weak but she still was with him because she approved of his plan as a whole. Take Game of Thrones for example. Marjory married Joffrey but she wasn’t evil like him. She had the same objectives as him as to rule the kingdom. But she was helping the poors and being kind to them. She is good or at least neutral, while Joffrey is pure evil. Same for Marianne, as far as we know since we never saw her oppress anyone or help anyone. She could be good or evil but for now she just seems to be neutral aka doing her own shit and not caring I agree with you on Marianne being in the right alignment, since she did seem to care for her children but I do not agree with Suzaku being in the same alignment as Nunnally. Nunnally was purely innocent and even cried for her brother after the ending, where Suzaku did much of the thing Lelouch did all because he wanted to "help" Japan. And let us not forget that he, like Lelouch, murdered his own family member in order to try and "help" Japan. I think they should both be in the same alignment since they both commit the same acts all in the name of trying to help people. And he also took on the mantel of Zero after killing Lelouch, showing he is willing to kill his best friend in order for what is good for the people, and for Nunnally. |
ErogakiPatches said: matraph00 said: Are they good or bad? It’s not about killing people (either them being Japaneses or Britannians) or which side you are on. There are good and evil people on both side. It’s about their beliefs. Yes Suzaku is on the wrong side but he is still trying to help people, only by not starting a war. And in fact, Suzaku’s way would probably have worked at some point and maybe even someday made the Japaneses people equal to the Britannians. Only a lot more people would have died before they got there without a revolution. So Suzaku is 100% good. Ok maybe 99%. He is not doing what he does to oppress and kill people. He does it to end the war and bring back peace because he doesn’t want people to die in a war. Marianne has the same goal than Charles but how is she as a person? Did she share the beliefs with Charles that if you are weak, you should die? Maybe she disapproved of him oppressing the weak but she still was with him because she approved of his plan as a whole. Take Game of Thrones for example. Marjory married Joffrey but she wasn’t evil like him. She had the same objectives as him as to rule the kingdom. But she was helping the poors and being kind to them. She is good or at least neutral, while Joffrey is pure evil. Same for Marianne, as far as we know since we never saw her oppress anyone or help anyone. She could be good or evil but for now she just seems to be neutral aka doing her own shit and not caring I agree with you on Marianne being in the right alignment, since she did seem to care for her children but I do not agree with Suzaku being in the same alignment as Nunnally. Nunnally was purely innocent and even cried for her brother after the ending, where Suzaku did much of the thing Lelouch did all because he wanted to "help" Japan. And let us not forget that he, like Lelouch, murdered his own family member in order to try and "help" Japan. I think they should both be in the same alignment since they both commit the same acts all in the name of trying to help people. And he also took on the mantel of Zero after killing Lelouch, showing he is willing to kill his best friend in order for what is good for the people, and for Nunnally. Suzaku literally is THE guy who is all about obeying the law and change the society by being part of it. He is not about chaos at all. Milly is tho. She is pretty much an agent of chaos. The whole show she is just there creating chaos at school, in a micro society. She would do the same if she was Prime Minister of Japan but on a larger scale than she did as President of the school. |
matraph00 said: ErogakiPatches said: I agree with you on Marianne being in the right alignment, since she did seem to care for her children but I do not agree with Suzaku being in the same alignment as Nunnally. Nunnally was purely innocent and even cried for her brother after the ending, where Suzaku did much of the thing Lelouch did all because he wanted to "help" Japan. And let us not forget that he, like Lelouch, murdered his own family member in order to try and "help" Japan. I think they should both be in the same alignment since they both commit the same acts all in the name of trying to help people. And he also took on the mantel of Zero after killing Lelouch, showing he is willing to kill his best friend in order for what is good for the people, and for Nunnally. Suzaku literally is THE guy who is all about obeying the law and change the society by being part of it. He is not about chaos at all. Milly is tho. She is pretty much an agent of chaos. The whole show she is just there creating chaos at school, in a micro society. She would do the same if she was Prime Minister of Japan but on a larger scale than she did as President of the school. Yes, that is what Suzaku SAYS he is about but his actions show he is very different in many ways. He acts superior but, as Lelouch points out throughout the show, he is not like that at all, especially since he killed his own father. Not to mention he changes so much towards the very end of the show. And yeah, Milly did cause chaos in the school, but what has she done that would make her not neutral in the political or war side of things? She becomes a reporter, sure, but she still stays very neutral especially when confronted with Nina and all her batshit ideas. She even stays out of Lelouch's way and never gives him up as being a royal while he lives at the school. The only thing you could say makes her chaotic good is her being a reporter and refusing to marry even though her family wants her to. But that could be argued makes her even MORE neutral as she does not want to become a part of noble life again and wants to live a much more normal life, if you could call it that. She refuses to become a part of politics, only wanting to report on it. |
ErogakiPatches said: matraph00 said: Suzaku literally is THE guy who is all about obeying the law and change the society by being part of it. He is not about chaos at all. Milly is tho. She is pretty much an agent of chaos. The whole show she is just there creating chaos at school, in a micro society. She would do the same if she was Prime Minister of Japan but on a larger scale than she did as President of the school. Yes, that is what Suzaku SAYS he is about but his actions show he is very different in many ways. He acts superior but, as Lelouch points out throughout the show, he is not like that at all, especially since he killed his own father. Not to mention he changes so much towards the very end of the show. And yeah, Milly did cause chaos in the school, but what has she done that would make her not neutral in the political or war side of things? She becomes a reporter, sure, but she still stays very neutral especially when confronted with Nina and all her batshit ideas. She even stays out of Lelouch's way and never gives him up as being a royal while he lives at the school. The only thing you could say makes her chaotic good is her being a reporter and refusing to marry even though her family wants her to. But that could be argued makes her even MORE neutral as she does not want to become a part of noble life again and wants to live a much more normal life, if you could call it that. She refuses to become a part of politics, only wanting to report on it. Milly doesn’t need to take a political side in the war to cause chaos. Mao doesn’t give a shit about the war still you are not arguing about him being in chaotic. He causes chaos in his part of life. Milly causes chaos in her part of life. She is chaos. The whole chart has nothing to do with which side people are in in the war but about their beliefs. How is Suzaku acting superior meaning that he canlt be lawful? He is still following the law and try to keep the peace and avoid any war. It’s also the reason why he killed his own father. To stop a war and bring back peace even if it meant losing. Bringing up him killing his father only reinforce my point about him being lawful |
Reply to matraph00
ErogakiPatches said:
Yes, that is what Suzaku SAYS he is about but his actions show he is very different in many ways. He acts superior but, as Lelouch points out throughout the show, he is not like that at all, especially since he killed his own father. Not to mention he changes so much towards the very end of the show.
And yeah, Milly did cause chaos in the school, but what has she done that would make her not neutral in the political or war side of things? She becomes a reporter, sure, but she still stays very neutral especially when confronted with Nina and all her batshit ideas. She even stays out of Lelouch's way and never gives him up as being a royal while he lives at the school. The only thing you could say makes her chaotic good is her being a reporter and refusing to marry even though her family wants her to. But that could be argued makes her even MORE neutral as she does not want to become a part of noble life again and wants to live a much more normal life, if you could call it that. She refuses to become a part of politics, only wanting to report on it.
matraph00 said:
Suzaku literally is THE guy who is all about obeying the law and change the society by being part of it. He is not about chaos at all.
Milly is tho. She is pretty much an agent of chaos. The whole show she is just there creating chaos at school, in a micro society. She would do the same if she was Prime Minister of Japan but on a larger scale than she did as President of the school.
Suzaku literally is THE guy who is all about obeying the law and change the society by being part of it. He is not about chaos at all.
Milly is tho. She is pretty much an agent of chaos. The whole show she is just there creating chaos at school, in a micro society. She would do the same if she was Prime Minister of Japan but on a larger scale than she did as President of the school.
Yes, that is what Suzaku SAYS he is about but his actions show he is very different in many ways. He acts superior but, as Lelouch points out throughout the show, he is not like that at all, especially since he killed his own father. Not to mention he changes so much towards the very end of the show.
And yeah, Milly did cause chaos in the school, but what has she done that would make her not neutral in the political or war side of things? She becomes a reporter, sure, but she still stays very neutral especially when confronted with Nina and all her batshit ideas. She even stays out of Lelouch's way and never gives him up as being a royal while he lives at the school. The only thing you could say makes her chaotic good is her being a reporter and refusing to marry even though her family wants her to. But that could be argued makes her even MORE neutral as she does not want to become a part of noble life again and wants to live a much more normal life, if you could call it that. She refuses to become a part of politics, only wanting to report on it.
Milly doesn’t need to take a political side in the war to cause chaos. Mao doesn’t give a shit about the war still you are not arguing about him being in chaotic. He causes chaos in his part of life. Milly causes chaos in her part of life. She is chaos. The whole chart has nothing to do with which side people are in in the war but about their beliefs.
How is Suzaku acting superior meaning that he canlt be lawful? He is still following the law and try to keep the peace and avoid any war. It’s also the reason why he killed his own father. To stop a war and bring back peace even if it meant losing. Bringing up him killing his father only reinforce my point about him being lawful
| @matraph00 Then why bring up her doing the same if she was in a political position? And leaving out such an important part of every single character's story is a bit strange, especially for an alignment chart. I do not argue about Mao being chaotic due to his attempt to kidnap C.C. by cutting her up, kidnapping Nunnally, holding Nunnaly hostage, and trying to kill Lelouch and Suzaku, as well as all the stuff with Shirley. How was murdering his father being lawful? That is against the law, last I checked. And again, he does much of the same things as Lelouch does all for the sake of "helping" Japan. Lelouch kills his own brother in order to bring about peace, as well as killing his sister when she goes crazy due to his own actions. Suzaku tries to help people, and does at times, but so does Lelouch. And, again, Suzaku kills Lelouch and takes up the mantle of Zero all for peace. Suzaku acts like he is all about being "lawful", but does much of the same things as Lelouch does. |
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