Recently stumbled upon this little video. Is this actually from Fate/Stay Night? Why Saber is so disrespectful towards customers and Gilgamesh. Why can't she maid properly Gilgamesh of Fate/Zero would have peppered her with countless noble phantasms from his Gate of Babylon. However here... Wakaranai. Is Fate/Stay Night really that much more worse compare to Fate/Zero? |
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ThorLL said: Is this actually from Fate/Stay Night? Nop , it's from Carnival Phantasm , a bunch of parodics gags of the 3 Routes and Tsukihime. Zero also had some of them : https://myanimelist.net/anime/13263/Fate_Zero__Onegai_Einzbern_Soudanshitsu And same for Grand Order : https://myanimelist.net/anime/44248/Fate_Grand_Carnival ThorLL said: Is Fate/Stay Night really that much more worse compare to Fate/Zero? Not at all , every themes/characters of Zero are basically cheap versions of those from Stay Night. Unfortunately , the Anime adaptations had to cut a lot of dialogues. |
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Nop , it's from Carnival Phantasm , a bunch of parodics gags of the 3 Routes and Tsukihime. Zero also had some of them : https://myanimelist.net/anime/13263/Fate_Zero__Onegai_Einzbern_Soudanshitsu And same for Grand Order : https://myanimelist.net/anime/44248/Fate_Grand_Carnival Ok that makes sense. Not at all , every themes/characters of Zero are basically cheap versions of those from Stay Night. Unfortunately , the Anime adaptations had to cut a lot of dialogues. Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. |
EmperorThorApr 13, 2023 4:30 AM
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ThorLL said: Nop , it's from Carnival Phantasm , a bunch of parodics gags of the 3 Routes and Tsukihime. Zero also had some of them : https://myanimelist.net/anime/13263/Fate_Zero__Onegai_Einzbern_Soudanshitsu And same for Grand Order : https://myanimelist.net/anime/44248/Fate_Grand_Carnival Ok that makes sense. Not at all , every themes/characters of Zero are basically cheap versions of those from Stay Night. Unfortunately , the Anime adaptations had to cut a lot of dialogues. Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. Well no, that's mostly because of the way Saber was written in Zero. The rest of the characters are quite on point. Saber was NOT the idealistic king she was made out to be in the banquet of kings. There are some pretty obvious loopholes with her character if you've read Stay Night, and that's what puts VN fans off. |
ThorLL said: Nop , it's from Carnival Phantasm , a bunch of parodics gags of the 3 Routes and Tsukihime. Zero also had some of them : https://myanimelist.net/anime/13263/Fate_Zero__Onegai_Einzbern_Soudanshitsu And same for Grand Order : https://myanimelist.net/anime/44248/Fate_Grand_Carnival Ok that makes sense. Not at all , every themes/characters of Zero are basically cheap versions of those from Stay Night. Unfortunately , the Anime adaptations had to cut a lot of dialogues. Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. I agree with you on the difference in taste thing. Zero imo is much more appealing to general public who is not that deep into the Nasuverse, all they want is just an enjoyable ride. For stay night, it's much more appealing to audiences who want deep lore and in depth character writing, to the point that Fate Stay Night actually feels like a philosophical story for me. I personally prefer Fate Stay Night, and I think you should check it out. Fate Stay Night is the main series anyway. |
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ThorLL said: Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. Yeah , no doubt , but in case you don't know , Zero is a Prequel Spin-Off made by Urobutchi because he was fan of the original Visual Novel. He took the numerous flashbacks about Kiritsugu thrown in it , and filled the blanks to make a complete story. But literally every themes aborded in it where already covered in the Visual Novel , and he created incoherences by not remembering some details of it. Zero has absolutely nothing "better" than the 3 Routes of Stay Night in term of story and (particularly) in term of characters. But since adapting a Light Novel require way less content to cut compared to a Visual Novel , the adaptation of Zero seems to really outclass the Stay Night ones. ThorLL said: That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. In fact , the only difference between Zero and the Stay Nights is that Zero is a total tragedy , while Stay Night is a slow-burn mystery story about all the secrets of the characters. Note that watching Zero first adds a good touch of thriller and suspense to it , which is one of the points that makes a huge discrepancy in what those who watched Zero first , and those who did it last , see in it. |
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ThorLL said: Nop , it's from Carnival Phantasm , a bunch of parodics gags of the 3 Routes and Tsukihime. Zero also had some of them : https://myanimelist.net/anime/13263/Fate_Zero__Onegai_Einzbern_Soudanshitsu And same for Grand Order : https://myanimelist.net/anime/44248/Fate_Grand_Carnival Ok that makes sense. Not at all , every themes/characters of Zero are basically cheap versions of those from Stay Night. Unfortunately , the Anime adaptations had to cut a lot of dialogues. Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. Gen urobuchi did not write the screenplay for fate/zero. He wasn't actually involved in the anime basically at all. He wrote the original novel volumes for fate/zero. Those novels were based on flashbacks and stories about what happened in the previous war from the original Fate/stay night and other stories written by Kinoko Nasu. Gen Urobuchi took those stories and snippets and turned them into one overarching plot (under supervision of type-moon who are the company publishing all of Nasu's stuff). The anime on top of that also changes some things and adds stuff from additional material to the original novels. Both stay night and zero are dark death game urban fantasy stories and the characters in Zero were all based off of characters in SN. They're honestly a lot more similar than most people would think. Main problem is the adaptation of stay night's saber route is... kinda bad... the unlimited blade works adaptation was great and the heavens feel adaptation was good but a bit short because it was 3 movies instead of a full series. |
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ThorLL said: Recently stumbled upon this little video. Is this actually from Fate/Stay Night? Why Saber is so disrespectful towards customers and Gilgamesh. Why can't she maid properly Gilgamesh of Fate/Zero would have peppered her with countless noble phantasms from his Gate of Babylon. However here... Wakaranai. Is Fate/Stay Night really that much more worse compare to Fate/Zero? Saber is a king therefore she is no one's servant, no she puts all in their proper place like a true king should. |
Sometimes it takes a real man to be best girl. Gilgamesh is also chad.   |
certifiedbinger said: ThorLL said: Ok that makes sense. Still I am not getting why you criticize Fate/Zero? Urobutchi is a good screen-writer who also made Madoka Magica, Gargantua and many other shows. Fate/Zero has good plot and story and plenty of good characters. That kind of criticism sounds just like some difference in tastes thing. Well no, that's mostly because of the way Saber was written in Zero. The rest of the characters are quite on point. Saber was NOT the idealistic king she was made out to be in the banquet of kings. There are some pretty obvious loopholes with her character if you've read Stay Night, and that's what puts VN fans off. So what she is in F/SN then? Banquet of Kings is one of my favorite episodes of F/Z I like how Gilgamesh and Iskander put her down and tell her she is not a King. However this episode is more than just that. |
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ThorLL said: certifiedbinger said: Well no, that's mostly because of the way Saber was written in Zero. The rest of the characters are quite on point. Saber was NOT the idealistic king she was made out to be in the banquet of kings. There are some pretty obvious loopholes with her character if you've read Stay Night, and that's what puts VN fans off. So what she is in F/SN then? Banquet of Kings is one of my favorite episodes of F/Z I like how Gilgamesh and Iskander put her down and tell her she is not a King. However this episode is more than just that. How about you read it yourself and find out lol? what's with that tone? Either way, Saber's idealism was pumped to max for no apparent reason in Zero. In the original, she's incredibly pragmatic, taking initiative to cut down masters without waiting for orders or taking any chivalrous methods such as waiting for their servants. Her backstory depicted her as a pretty stoic and ruthless king who kinda had the same ideology as Kiritsugu, where she'd loot and wreck one of her own kingdom's villages to gather resources to save more villages. That's practically what Kiritsugu does, yet in Zero, she has a complete 180 and clashes with him every second they're together. I love the banquet of kings too. It is an incredible scene if I don't include my knowledge and characterization of Saber from F/SN. And that's what I usually do, too. As you said, the point of the scene was to put down Saber for her methods. The author has been accused of favouring Iskandar's ideology, being partial to him and treating him as a mini protagonist, but that's sort of petty to me. Artoria lived through her entire rule with her Knights and subordinates criticising her methods every step of the way, yet she remains steadfast in her beliefs. However she has these weird desperate expressions when she's chastised by Iskandar to make her incredibly more vulnerable than she needed to be. If someone looks at a character and thinks she'd be strong and hold her ground like she always did in the past, they'd be disappointed with the banquet of kings. Saber instead is made to act like a little girl, as is referred to as such. (Despite both Iskandar and Saber being the same age throughout their rule. Becoming kings at 15-20 and dying at 33-35. Saber's young looks are due to Avalon stopping her aging.) Here's another obvious loophole. Saber believed that her ideology and ruling is what brought ruin to Britain. That's literally the entire reason she became a servant, right? That's true regardless of what adaptation you choose to analyse. Saber knew that her kingship was awful, yet choosing to focus on her beliefs in Zero when she CLEARLY does not believe in them herself is stupid. I mean, why the hell would she even BE there if she accepted the way she ruled? That's why F/SN Does not focus on her methods or ideology as a king, rather the fact that everybody needs to accept their past as something that led them to their present, no matter how terrible it was. That's the whole theme of the First Route from Fate/stay night. |
HanBoitheLamb said: ThorLL said: So what she is in F/SN then? Banquet of Kings is one of my favorite episodes of F/Z I like how Gilgamesh and Iskander put her down and tell her she is not a King. However this episode is more than just that. there was a very good meme video that sums it up Zero: No, we shall fight a fair and true duel, and I shall never use Excalibur in such a case Stay Night: Is that an extremely weak skeleton Caster summoned? Very well. EXCALIBUR, EXCALIBUR, EXCALIBUR (she only can't do that because SOMEONE has no mana) Zero is a lot more chivalrous, idealistic, naive, and knightly than the more pessimistic, broken, and sorrowful. Actually Stay/Night Saber and Zero Saber is like Kiritsugu and Shirou ironically enough. Although Stay/Night Saber and Shirou both have the trait of crippling self esteem Actually you can even put it this way. After dealing with Kiritsugi, Gilgamesh and Iskander, she kind of changed and became more like Kiritsugi. Also in Zero while she indeed hold chivalry as a noble aspiration and values it, but in actual battles she is much more flexible. That said she treats her opponents differently based on her values. Goes full force on Caster because she despises him, but willing to duel fairly with Lancer as she respects him. Actually Lancer (Diarmuid o Dyna) is the most chivalrous in Fate/Zero. That said may be Saber route worth checking out after all. |
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HanBoitheLamb said: ThorLL said: Actually you can even put it this way. After dealing with Kiritsugi, Gilgamesh and Iskander, she kind of changed and became more like Kiritsugi. Also in Zero while she indeed hold chivalry as a noble aspiration and values it, but in actual battles she is much more flexible. That said she treats her opponents differently based on her values. Goes full force on Caster because she despises him, but willing to duel fairly with Lancer as she respects him. Actually Lancer (Diarmuid o Dyna) is the most chivalrous in Fate/Zero. That said may be Saber route worth checking out after all. oh you got the wrong caster. im talking about the one who wants to kidnap saber and have some "fun" with her. also is desperately trying to get married Giles de Reis from Zero wanted to do this to her. Did caster from Stay Night wanted to do the same to her. Isn't F/Sn caster a woman? |
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HanBoitheLamb said: ThorLL said: Giles de Reis from Zero wanted to do this to her. Did caster from Stay Night wanted to do the same to her. Isn't F/Sn caster a woman? gilles de rais only wanted to because she resembled a certain ruler class servant. caster of stay night wanted to because she's really likes saber (as in like meeting an idol or smth). also yes caster of stay night is female but she wants to get married to her master which in stay night is sad considering grail war circumstances but everywhere else its wholesome A lesbian caster, more like bisexual? |
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