| "Still, the anime's low Blu-ray sales must be taken in full context. These sale figures don't count internal sales from MAPPA's online store, and the studio is offering lots of goodies firsthand. There is also the fact that Chainsaw Man isn't relying on Japan's core otaku audience. With a global fanbase on hand, Chainsaw Man's mettle comes in licensing with steamers. International Blu-ray sales may do fine, but Chainsaw Man knew from day one it would need to negotiate solid streaming deals to profit off its international fanbase. And while boosted video sales would help the anime's reputation in Japan, well – a blowout sale isn't necessary for Chainsaw Man at this point." https://comicbook.com/anime/news/chainsaw-man-anime-blu-ray-sales-popularity/ I do not possess the intellect required to come up with this whole analysis all by myself so obviously I took Google's help And as far as I can understand Chainsaw man wasn't even relying on its Japanese audience in the first place. In fact they kind of suspected the feedback of the Japanese audience won't be good and that explains all the US anime convention stages and presentations and pre-screening of the first episode in France of all places. They were really hyping up the anime outside of Japan. (To any boomers who still think anime gets poor reception outside of Japan, though that is the case relatively, please try to understand that Chainsaw Man is streaming on both Amazon Prime and Netflix, that itself would be generating a lot of revenue for MAPPA). Moreover there's the dozen holywood references inside the OP which I seriously don't think was aimed at the Japanese audience. In short we should definitely be seeing a good looking second season |
| the problem is the too damn high expectations that it will dethrone demon slayer or at least jjk but that will not happen without the help of japan i expect lower quality for the sequel |
| I maybe wrong on this, but when Japanese companies give their license to investors overseas, don’t the international market pay them a one time fee for the license, thus whatever popularity it has over here still doesn’t contribute to MAPPA seeing profits? For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Then whatever streaming numbers it brings it mostly goes to Crunchyroll to pay its staff and maintain its platform and share? And this extends to whoever else they give the international license too? If my theory is correct, it doesn’t matter how good it does over here in the West. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Also, before anyone comes in here and says “BUT VINLAND SAGA SOLD 200 COPIES!” you need to understand Vinland Saga is an exception, not a rule, and the only reason Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence |
| My Anime Planet. http://www.anime-planet.com/users/Yuyunarutoballz/anime |
Yuyunarutoballz said: I maybe wrong on this, but when Japanese companies give their license to investors overseas, don’t the international market pay them a one time fee for the license, thus whatever popularity it has over here still doesn’t contribute to MAPPA seeing profits? For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Then whatever streaming numbers it brings it mostly goes to Crunchyroll to pay its staff and maintain its platform and share? And this extends to whoever else they give the international license too? If my theory is correct, it doesn’t matter how good it does over here in the West. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Also, before anyone comes in here and says “BUT VINLAND SAGA SOLD 200 COPIES!” you need to understand Vinland Saga is an exception, not a rule, and the only reason Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence That is exactly why this means nothing without official MAPPA numbers, Blu-ray just doesn't have the weight it used to, so I'd not run into conclusions. Season 2 is definitely happening anyway so I don't really care |
| Is the CSM manga not even that popular in Japan compared to overseas? They went into the anime with the intention of appealing to the west over JP? |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LostSpectre said: Is the CSM manga not even that popular in Japan compared to overseas? They went into the anime with the intention of appealing to the west over JP? CSM manga was a massive hit in Japan, even more so than overseas. For a while it was beating one piece in daily readers. MAPPA had a golden goose in chainsaw man and they wasted it |
fishguzheng said: Well, I guess they got what they wanted, I'm not sure what deals they could have made in order to profit more from western popularity, though. LostSpectre said: Is the CSM manga not even that popular in Japan compared to overseas? They went into the anime with the intention of appealing to the west over JP? CSM manga was a massive hit in Japan, even more so than overseas. For a while it was beating one piece in daily readers. MAPPA had a golden goose in chainsaw man and they wasted it |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
CreepHazard said: Yuyunarutoballz said: I maybe wrong on this, but when Japanese companies give their license to investors overseas, don’t the international market pay them a one time fee for the license, thus whatever popularity it has over here still doesn’t contribute to MAPPA seeing profits? For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Then whatever streaming numbers it brings it mostly goes to Crunchyroll to pay its staff and maintain its platform and share? And this extends to whoever else they give the international license too? If my theory is correct, it doesn’t matter how good it does over here in the West. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Also, before anyone comes in here and says “BUT VINLAND SAGA SOLD 200 COPIES!” you need to understand Vinland Saga is an exception, not a rule, and the only reason Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence That is exactly why this means nothing without official MAPPA numbers, Blu-ray just doesn't have the weight it used to, so I'd not run into conclusions. Season 2 is definitely happening anyway so I don't really care Knowing the price of the Blue-rays, I wouldn't discard it as "weightless". Last time I went into a store, Steins Gates was around 20-30€ without OVA nor collector's edition. If people buy more Blue-rays for other series, WAY more than CSM, then that means there's a serious issue in there. If, let's say, the sales in general were more or less equal (with one or two series peaking), then I'd agree, but this isn't the case. This is all, of course, a theory, since I'm not really aware of the actual sales. |
 ❝Only you can save yourself.❞ I only know what I know, I guess? Yuri enjoyer and El Cazador de la Bruja fan |
Yuyunarutoballz said: I maybe wrong on this, but when Japanese companies give their license to investors overseas, don’t the international market pay them a one time fee for the license, thus whatever popularity it has over here still doesn’t contribute to MAPPA seeing profits? For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Then whatever streaming numbers it brings it mostly goes to Crunchyroll to pay its staff and maintain its platform and share? And this extends to whoever else they give the international license too? If my theory is correct, it doesn’t matter how good it does over here in the West. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Also, before anyone comes in here and says “BUT VINLAND SAGA SOLD 200 COPIES!” you need to understand Vinland Saga is an exception, not a rule, and the only reason Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence here learn royalties and minimum guarantee https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2021-08-02/how-much-does-it-cost-to-license-anime-series/.175579 |
Yuyunarutoballz said: I maybe wrong on this, but when Japanese companies give their license to investors overseas, don’t the international market pay them a one time fee for the license, thus whatever popularity it has over here still doesn’t contribute to MAPPA seeing profits? For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Then whatever streaming numbers it brings it mostly goes to Crunchyroll to pay its staff and maintain its platform and share? And this extends to whoever else they give the international license too? If my theory is correct, it doesn’t matter how good it does over here in the West. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Also, before anyone comes in here and says “BUT VINLAND SAGA SOLD 200 COPIES!” you need to understand Vinland Saga is an exception, not a rule, and the only reason Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence Crunchyroll works with royalty based licenses, so the more watched the show is, the more money it makes. |
 |
Yuyunarutoballz said: For example, maybe they give Crunchyroll the license for 50k dollars or something. Japans primary audience and revenue is still from Japan: and oh boy…I haven’t seen a series flop this hard in a LONG time. Vinland Saga season 2 exists is because it’s basically a passion project from the staff. That’s why the majority of the Season 1 staff was brought back on despite it being a different studio. They weren’t interested in profits. They were interested in just adapting the IP. This is a very rare occurrence You need to read how licensing in crunchyroll work. Simulcast A++ anime like csm can easily get 400-500k per episode royalties. Csm also i think the highest rated anime in crunchyroll last year. Japan revenue - csm is the most watch anime last season in japan after sxf. Top 10 every 12 weeks in Netflix Japan. Csm staff also passion about csm project. |
| From what I have read, mappa was banking on this to be like a demon slayer hit. A show with this amount of marketing will need massive amounts just to break even. Let's look at the revenue. 1. Streaming. Chainsaw man is broadcasted upon various venues like netflix jp, prime jp, disney+ jp. Only crunchyroll is actually paying massive for exclusive rights. Even then, they are just for streaming and not on the production committee. Netflix has a set amount of subscriber money and will greenlit future seasons solely on viewership to keep subscriber counts. Crunchyroll only has like 10 million paid subs. Also they need to divide money between different shows. Many well viewed shows got no further seasons. Even with views, it may not be enough to make a roiling. Especially since anime piracy is still high 2. Goods The figures will take till 2024 to come out for a ton. Without a further season to keep interest and recession coming, cancelation rates will be high. This can discourage manufacturers from making more. Also as a new show, your audience is likely young and short on money. Vs an older audience like fate will generally keep their pre orders 3. Blu rays Majority of revenue will come from this. If you have multiple people on a production committee, if one party makes a roi like a gacha developer, they can pool funds. If you are the sole member, you are reliant on it selling well for goods and blu rays. You can win big since you have all hands on it. But lose big since you have all stakes on it. So this can be the biggest anime bomb of all time. |
From what I have read, mappa was banking on this to be like a demon slayer hit. A show with this amount of marketing will need massive amounts just to break even. Demon Slayer wasn't as big a hit in bd as you think. The average per volume was 28k. Obviously 1.7k is terrible compared to that but 28k does not represent the absolute monster hit Demons Slayer was. The real profit was in other areas, where CSM may very well be doing well (Definitely not on the level of DS, that thing was, again, a monster hit). For comparison, AoT sold an average of 50k units and it's a big hit but very very dwarfed by Demon Slayer. Spy X Family has an average of 9k units and I don't think anyone here is willing to call it a modest success. |
EmmanuelVRFeb 1, 2023 4:44 PM
| Chainsaw man basically is like black adam. Passion project that the studio/producers puts own resources on the line hoping for a mega hit to jump start something only to lose MASSIVE amounts of money. |
Badguy_oncel said: Because movie work differently. S2 went back down to 20k. It's just how the industry works. The great Ghibli movies are regularly selling as much or even more BD units than Demon Slayer (I believe Mononoke hime is around 1.5m and Spirited Away 4m), It's not rare for 100k-600k numbers for popular movies and more for bigger hits. And I'm by no means downplaying the success of the Demon Slayer movie (it was peak DS hype), it's just not relevant to TV series BD numbers. EmmanuelVR said: why are you ignoring mugen train bd sales? That shit was a monster with over million copies soldDemon Slayer wasn't as big a hit in bd as you think. The average per volume was 28k. Obviously 1.7k is terrible compared to that but 28k does not represent the absolute monster hit Demons Slayer was. The real profit was in other areas, where CSM may very well be doing well (Definitely not on the level of DS, that thing was, again, a monster hit). For comparison, AoT sold an average of 50k units and it's a big hit but very very dwarfed by Demon Slayer. Spy X Family has an average of 9k units and I don't think anyone here is willing to call it a modest success. |
EmmanuelVRFeb 1, 2023 7:48 PM
| oic thanks for the info :D |
 |
| wait for yearly franchises total profit report like this https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJOricon/status/1618060837113196544 |
deg said: the problem is the too damn high expectations that it will dethrone demon slayer or at least jjk but that will not happen without the help of japan i expect lower quality for the sequel Imo, S2 will be lower quality just because of the content. Reze arc was one I think I liked least |
Badguy_oncel said: deg said: its not total profit and it's only from japan. In reality pokemon should be no 1wait for yearly franchises total profit report like this https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJOricon/status/1618060837113196544 its still better data than japan disc sales |
icefirestone23 said: Except you have literally 0 evidence that CSM lost them any amount of money (massive or otherwise)Chainsaw man basically is like black adam. Passion project that the studio/producers puts own resources on the line hoping for a mega hit to jump start something only to lose MASSIVE amounts of money. |
JesseBoi said: That seems to be this entire thread in a nutshell. lolicefirestone23 said: Except you have literally 0 evidence that CSM lost them any amount of money (massive or otherwise)Chainsaw man basically is like black adam. Passion project that the studio/producers puts own resources on the line hoping for a mega hit to jump start something only to lose MASSIVE amounts of money. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
LuRo said: this calls for a movie sequel my dudes I think this is very possible. idk the content to be adapted but a movie would help them rake a lot more money |
JesseBoi said: icefirestone23 said: Except you have literally 0 evidence that CSM lost them any amount of money (massive or otherwise)Chainsaw man basically is like black adam. Passion project that the studio/producers puts own resources on the line hoping for a mega hit to jump start something only to lose MASSIVE amounts of money. I recommend you read the article. https://comicbook.com/anime/news/chainsaw-man-anime-studio-mappa-investment/ With expensive production particularly on the polished cgi and the marketing, they need massive amounts of money just to break even. The low vol 1 disc sales means that portion is effectively gone. So basically just goods but often for new ips, people mass order then mass cancel without another season to hype it up. This leads figure companies to back out. This is why figure companies favor long running series like fate. |
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