KATANAGATARI
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| @noteDhero: Well in the comments I read from you, you don't come off as a really objective person, but maybe that's just subjective perception. You do know how to express your opinion, but I think you're as far away from being objective as mostly everybody else. Of course there is much in Katanagatari, as in any series, that can be subjectively good and bad, so I wouldn't go out and say anybody is wrong, especially because Hypeathon made it quite clear (and I agree) that nobody has to agree on those opinions, but they exist. Katanagatari doesn't put me off because of excessive talking, that would be totally okay. The problem is that many parts of the script is not directly important to what is developing in the story (mostly the dialogues of Shichika and Togame)...I do not need to have a comment on each and every reaction by both of them...in a novel it's okay (even though I did not like it there either), but seeing and being told makes it boring. That leads me to another level that I dislike about this as an adaption. That would be the point that the talking is the only thing that actually drives the series forward...there is no reason for the visual component to be there at all, because everything is narrated anyway. @MorningGlory: I think we have different perceptions of the word important. Of course in the context of Katanagatari, the relationship of Shichika and Togame is defined by them talking...but their dialogues do not really lead anywhere, at least most of them. Many are just there, to be there...to fill space. Like you said, it's like talking to a GF about everyday life. In the end my feelings towards neither Shichika nor Togame changed. I liked some antagonists, I liked the basic structure...but the protagonists were fully replacable. |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Maybe I should rephrase: I like being as objective as I can, but when it comes down to me liking or loving something, that is very subjective. Whether it is good or bad, though, can be looked at as relatively objective in my mind. There is such a thing as good direction, scripting, voice acting, etc., and they should be taken into account regardless of whether or not that's what I want the show to do. To me, Katanagatari is as close to a Tarantino film as any anime has been so far. Even if the dialogue isn't explicitly important to the plot, it is necessary. Plot isn't the only thing a show is about. The dialogue helps create atmosphere, tension, and give an idea for the characters. Like I said during the episode one discussion, it failed there because it was being almost completely expository, and there was no reason for them to affirm what was being said. Since then, the dialogue has been employed to fill out the relationships between characters and also be a bit meta in talking about the industry, the way characters will be perceived, and playing up on expectations by trolling (as was used in this episode) in a humorous fashion. And I totally disagree. I think you're underestimating what the visual direction of this show does on the impact as a whole. Besides the fact that this is the most visually distinct show since Trapeze, the direction in every episode (besides the first) really support the choices to enhance the dialogue. For example, when the butterfly guy takes his stance and Nanami scoffs at him. We get these longs shots of both characters as Nanami takes a few steps forward, and each time a cut is made, we zoom in closer. All that is subtle tension building. The decision of when to (or not to) have music is also apart of that. To say that the show would have the same impact without visuals is shortsighted to me. |
seizonsha said: |
MorningGloryApr 21, 2010 12:38 PM
| @noteDhero: I agree with half of what you said. Of course there are points that can be rated objectively to a certain degree, saying wether the one behind it is competent or not. But the smaller the things become you are looking at the more difficult it gets to actually be objective. Comparing it with Tarantino is an interesting choice, as I do not like his movies. Of course it is always depending on the audience, at least to 50%, wether or not the effect the creator wished for actually kicks in. To me for example, the creation of atmosphere in Katanagatari (as in most Tarantino movies) somehow fails and I can't even exactly say why. If I had to pin it down, maybe it would be because I think it's not focused enough. I think the public thoughts on the Katanagatari novels would show, too, that oppinions differ on that subject. There are people who think they are genius and there are people who think it's among the weakest the author has ever written (me belonging to the second group). And I would disagree with your disagreement, calling this show visually distinct. Most of the visuals live from Take's artwork, which is nothing that can actually be attributed to the anime. What I would criticize is also less those scenes like the one you quoted, but for example the flashback when their father is talking to them at the beach, when most of the time the focus is on unimportant parts not even showing lips moving. It all felt much too static during those scenes. I actually found myself dozing off and only listening to the conversation, which is something that very rarely happens to me. @MorningGlory: I would agree that of course every individual sword-event had a particular point in the story. But what actually feels redundant to me is the huge parts that are placed between those events, which are often inserted more for the sake of being there (maybe he had to have at least 200 pages to get it published), at least that's how it often felt to me. I again want to highlight that I don't think Katanagatari is a bad story, there's just much better stuff around, even by that author, which could have been adapted first. It's a fun little growing-up story that was just drawn out way to long for my taste. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Well, I just don't know what to say. Tarantino is polarizing, and I suppose that's the way most dialogue heavy writers/directors will be. It's a shame to me. But as far as your talking about the flashback is concerned, Nanami makes a point about the eyes of her being like the ones of the praying mantis guy. Again, that type of shot and emphasis is necessary. They show Shichika sucking his thumb, and immediately I just think she has a lot of rage towards specific images during that situation. Maybe that's why she ruthlessly ripped out his fingernails. |
noteDhero said: Well, I just don't know what to say. Tarantino is polarizing, and I suppose that's the way most dialogue heavy writers/directors will be. It's a shame to me. What bothers me is that it is broken down to the point of being dialogue heave most of the time. Because that's clearly not the point here. I'm not quite sure what you meant, so I wanna ask. Do you mean dialogue heavy in general or just that between several dialogue heavy works dispute is easier to spark then between action focused works?! I want to ask because many people try to use the fact that Katanagatari is dialogue heavy as an argument despite the fact that there are people like me who clearly love works focusing on well written dialogue...some, like me, even love other works by the same author. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Most people just don't like dialogue heavy works in general, and as a result, people will always couch their dispute with "show don't tell" regardless of how succesful/unsuccessful it is in movies/television. |
noteDhero said: Most people just don't like dialogue heavy works in general, and as a result, people will always couch their dispute with "show don't tell" regardless of how succesful/unsuccessful it is in movies/television. Though the fact you even compared the writing in Katanagatari to Tarantino's films would actually explain things, and hey! I actually find it cool how you inerpreted it that way, even though I'll admit I'm not all that familiar with Tarantino's work, which may also explain why I hardly ever got the dialogue the same way you did. Unlike others, you actually attempted to explain how Katanagatari fascinated you in way where even if I don't totally agree with being as into it as you were, I can understand at least your fascination came from. Thus I seriously appreciated the previous comments you made even if they weren't directed at me. *whew* Now if only more people would bother to clarify their tastes. *laughes* Though personally I'm still pissy over cutting out Hakuhei's entire appearance, regardless of the reason for it. No character should be that mysterious, that you have to cut them out from the show. |
noteDhero said: |
MorningGloryApr 22, 2010 4:01 AM
| What an episode. I was slightly disappointed that they skipped Shichika's fight but was pleasantly surprised at how enjoyable the episode was without it. They gave Nanami a lot of character here. I just hope that she'll eventually have some future role in Shichika's journey. It seems like such a waste to not incorporate her further into the story. |
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| that was a fucking mind fuck |
| Just. Wow. Amazing episode! Nanami became a sadistic character that I would have never imagined her being. It wouldn't surprise me if she ends up becoming the villain of the show eventually. |
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Netforce said: i feel that i was trolled ehh, it wasn't a troll episode? |
| I wanted my shark cut in half D: where's my shark cut in half!??! |
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| Amazing episode that made me feel the need to leave my footprints in its thread! Nanami = Epic scary = Epic win!! She totally freaked me out. And for once, I felt really sorry for the Maniwani, just those 3 of the Insect Corp though. I thought they had enough time at the end to do a quick animated flashback of Shichika's fight but all they did was talk. Well, no matter, Nanami soon joining them on their sword hunt compensates for that disappointment. |
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magentaanbu said: |
| I pretty surprised they show 3 maniwa ninja at once this time, at first i thought there will be just 1 maniwa ninja again, well, compare to the other previous ninja, i like this trio, they have a deep bond and quite honorable imo. Although i'm kinda quite disappointed that they didn't show Shichika's fight but Nanami's stories covered it up. Overall, i really liked it, a very good episode and the best one so far imo. |
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| makes me think that the sister is gonna get one of the swords and shichika wil have to fight her at the end for the last one.this episode gave out a lot of strong vibes for this theory.especially since she plans on leaving the island. that aside, go ahead and flame me i dnt really care but personally i dont like nanami. she is waay too powerful in my opinion. i hope i come to like her but i doubt it since she is like so powerful she can destroy the whole cast of DBZ |
gerb234Apr 24, 2010 12:28 PM
| oh snap....Nanami is like a god o_o; funny thing is...I missed seeing the preview last ep so I didn't feel like I was trolled this week xD; |
(My avatar is an original creation-please don't take it) |
Drengot said: |
MorningGloryApr 24, 2010 4:18 PM
| Another good episode imho. |
     #Feitoism @ irc.rizon.net - the official IRC channel for Fate Testarossa.  |
| Earlier i disliked Shichika but his sister i really hate. And i so much waited they fight..... |
| Great episode, but I was like What the.. when at the end of the episode there were no epic fight between Shichika and Sabi. Anyway Nanami's battle was amazing. |
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| I didn't count how many times I said "NICE" or "AWESOME" during the episode... but it was a lot! |
| I don't know where everyone watches their anime, but when I watched episode 3's preview for episode 4, it is not really what episode 4 is. In short, I never would've thought Shichika's sister would have this episode's fight scene spotlight! Well done~ |
| OMFG, epic troll is epic. All in all I liked this episode, though the endless discussions between Nanami and the Maniwani started to get to me >.< It's like they build up this high tension in viewers, And then you go like "OK, GO!... Not yet... damn... Yes, yes... GO!... You are still talking?! OK... this time... this time... GO!... OH GOD FU**ING DAMN IT!" It's not the matter of long discussions (those I can handle), but rather that irritation, that you can't release the said tension that was build up minutes ago. You talk - ok, talk. But if you fight - FIGHT FOR GOD'S SAKE! >.< Don't keep your viewers on the edge of their seats, for 2-3 seconds release >.< Then there's the Sabi fight... Like someone already said, I also hope that there will be some OVA or Special, where they will show that fight... That kind of Troll is fun at first, but only if we actually get to see that fight >.< And then they rub it in our faces like "Ahahaha, we had this epic fight with the best swordsman in all of japan, but YOU AIN'T GONNA SEE IT!... There were cool moves, like the part where he caught the sword...but YOU AIN'T GONNA SEE IT!... Ahahahahaha~!" On the other hand, We managed to see something good. Togame's collarbone :3 MOE~ I want to tickle her :3 I want to see more of her reactions! :3 |
MauroxApr 26, 2010 6:06 PM
     -=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=- |
Wasabi said: Oh I hope she becomes evil and kills Shichika and Togame to rule all in the end......maybe not Sichika but Togame and everyone else....yeah. Nanami is way to powerful.......did you see all that copying.....1st try knows it already......2nd try masters it.....poison even though she is ill....no effect at all.....her limit? It looks like none almost from how she fought. Nanami = to over 9000 or more.I just hope that she'll eventually have some future role in Shichika's journey. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| damn trolls! xD There goes nanami into my favorite character list. |
Maurox said: There is a special Maniwani episode....Since their sacrifice in this Story really deserve an another episode LOLThen there's the Sabi fight... Like someone already said, I also hope that there will be some OVA or Special, where they will show that fight... |
| That was some grade A trollin' right there. I had to do a double take and go back through the episode again, like "Wait, did I miss something?!" I did the exact same thing the first time I saw the Haruhi baseball episode. Am I upset at all? After seeing Nanami's fights: No. |
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| I'VE BEEN TROLLED. But boy do I not regret it one single bit. the small disappointment with Shichika's fight was completely blown away when Nanami started her onesided slaughter. GIVE ME MORE |
| I've never read the novels, but this episode threw me off. Huh. I wasn't expecting them ever to go back to the sister. And to find out she could dominate fights like that was unexpected, but I was kinda bored at the same time because I couldn't like her. I wanted it to keep going back to our main characters. But oh well. The episode was certainly different. |
| How long would it take to earn 50 million yen, Karasawa? - Katsuya No longer than it would take to get to the bank, provided I have a gun. -Karasawa I'm through talking with you. -Katsuya |
| Erm... Nanami is indeed frightening... but, WTF!? we don't get to see the fight against Sabi? that's not fair at all! |
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ReaperEXE said: exactly...The best episode thus far wasn't even about the main characters... I did not expect Nanami to be a sadistic monster... |
 True or False Anime + Manga = Chuck Norris / Chuck Norris |
OFMG i love NANAMI!!!`111!1!!111 She kicks ass and tells it like it is. Thats one hell of a mutant super she has. Even more awesome than shapeshifting. God definitely one of my favorite characters of the year. Here's to hoping theres a spinoff anime with her as the main character. I knew she was tougher than she let on considering she always talked down to her brother and how she got caught in one of her brothers "animal traps" and how they fought only once... all adds up to her being a silent killer. Lover errything about her. Haha! I love how they skipped the whole fight with Shichi and instead weant with the color commentary. Man they do so many different things that are against the anime norm... loving this show even more! |
RanivusMay 5, 2010 1:23 AM
  "What happens when we die?" I know that the ones who love us will miss us. |
| Damn. I am really late to the debate. First off I agree with Hypeathon and seizonsha. I am a man of the same opinion. While I do admit to enjoying this episode the most out of the series so far(Maybe because of the first character with real character appearing) I find a serious lack of substance here. Lots of unnecessary dialogue that explains every characters action about three times over. I mean if you take away the massive amounts of talking in this show then what else does this show have? A unique storyline? Nope, it's been done. Interesting characters? Nope, they are basically all cardboard cutouts that spew endless amounts of dialogue with about as much emotion as a robot reading poetry.(With two exceptions) Interesting visuals? This is what really disappointed me. I thought with the unique art style that we would be seeing something visually interesting but needless to say the show didn't really hold anything really impressive. It's a pity because something like that would have really made up for everything else. Good comedy? I didn't realize there was any until halfway through the first episode. Even then I still don't find it funny. Never did find the jokes funny in his other work either. It's funny that I find someone here comparing it to Tarantino as I always thought his movies were overrated and are not even close to the word Masterpiece. Now don't get me wrong. I do find myself mildly enjoying this. I do find that its getting better. However there is something seriously lacking here. |
 "I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| i dont live Nanami! i liked the three ninjas better i didnt want them to die! as soon as he said he was going to get married after this i was sooo sad cuz nooo hes going to die because he was going to be happy i cryed when the last one died aww when he said burry me and my comrades together i was like aww :(!! and omg she ripped her brothers fingernails off cuz he wass biting them O.o |
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| I-I don't know what t-to say... Do I even have to say anything? |
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| I'll be seeing Nanami in my nightmares. Absolutely terrifying. Guess I'll rewatch the preview at the end of episode 3 to see the main event lol. |
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| always blabbing.. just fight already T_t.. |
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| the that girl is so storng the nessan of that 7th head... his technique is... watching... and he can learned it already.. with no effort.. ahh thats why the father of her... didn't give... that 7th head. T_t.. |
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| This episode was BADASS. Nanami is my favorite character! Yeah she's sick and fragile but I had a feeling she could do something to protect herself. Didn't expect it to be so incredible though. So basically Nanami should be titled the strongest in Japan. Shichika would be second. Kinda sad we didn't get to see the main characters but hey, i'm not complaining! |
| By far the worst ep so far. And lol @ nanami, just lol. |
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