Muv-Luv Alternative Episode 8 Discussion

Nov 24, 2021 8:27 AM

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Nov 2011

128150

A coup and assassinations. Yikes. There's no safe haven in this show.

A rather tense episode but the protagonists are still fighting the good fight. Episode had a feeling of who or who not to trust.

Nov 24, 2021 8:36 AM

#2

dailybread

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Oct 2020

114

all sagiri and no walken

Nov 24, 2021 10:00 AM

#3

Fax001s

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Jul 2019

974

Does someone know when the episode comes out on crunchyroll? I heard it was delayed.

EDIT: Nevermind, it will be out on 11 AM pt

Nov 24, 2021 10:42 AM

#4

Enerccio

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Sep 2007

80

so shitgiri episode?

Nov 24, 2021 11:43 AM

#5

Zero_Gravity1

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Oct 2020

28

Was good, liked a lot that epic wind effect in Ayamine's scene.

Zero_Gravity1Nov 24, 2021 11:46 AM

Nov 24, 2021 12:03 PM

#6

deg

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Jan 2009

93503

coup de tat, this is going nationalism vs globalism or just USA vs Japan since Japan fears that USA will sacrifice them in order to defeat the BETA

Nov 24, 2021 12:05 PM

#7

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

Enerccio said:
so shitgiri episode?

I don't really understand the Sagiri hate, i don't like the man but i don't really hate him either. One man can't start a coup by himself after all.
If anything, i hate the ones controlling behind the scenes while the ones in the fronts become sacrificial pawns like Walken.

deg said:
coup de tat, this is going nationalism vs globalism or just USA vs Japan since Japan fears that USA will sacrifice them in order to defeat the BETA

There's a lot going on behind the scenes here, if you want a clear answer it's just politicians doing politics at the expense of the soldiers that is.

Nov 24, 2021 12:30 PM

#8

Fax001s

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Jul 2019

974

It looks like the season will end after the coup d'etat and that's good news

Nov 24, 2021 12:44 PM

#9

Incognimous

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Jan 2019

73

It's not a *bad* episode per se but there are a couple of really bad direction decisions that are so basic that it makes me wonder if whoever made these decisions has even an elementary understanding of what they are doing. They are pretty much doing a straight adaptation of the manga so it baffles me that they would not include some things that the manga actually improved compared to the VN - such as showing us a glimpse of Chizurus father before he is killed, to give at least the tiniest bit of context to that revelation later on.
The scene with Ayamine from last episode's ending also goes absolutely nowhere. The obvious thing to do would have been to let the alarm go off as she is pinning him to the wall and have Takeru break free and go look for Yuuko. This is really basic stuff.

I'm not sure if this is the fault of the director, the writer or the episode director, but somebody did a pretty bad job with this episode.

Nov 24, 2021 12:49 PM

#10

JiangHaoyi1979

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May 2018

2190

So, why exactly again , did that shogun gun mounted a coup.

Nov 24, 2021 2:18 PM

#11

Fax001s

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Jul 2019

974

Incognimous said:

The scene with Ayamine from last episode's ending also goes absolutely nowhere.

Oh yeah, that was really weird, i wonder why they started the episode so abruptly and i also noticed that the transitions between scenes are really bad.

Nov 24, 2021 4:45 PM

#12

Sillferyr

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Jul 2016

11

I was kinda expecting an arrangement of the briefing music in the background. Its kinda jarring to not have any briefing music on the briefing scenes...

Nov 25, 2021 5:19 AM

#13

KANLen09

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Jul 2017

13625

Ooh action. Just what we need after missing episodes of slice of life.

An internal coup d'etat, foreign forces, Yuuko's weird American jokes, and expressionless emotions. Even loved ones getting killed, I don't see the characters feel any regret and remorse (just a bit) while putting the action into work. Ayamine's scene rather, makes me question a lot about potential lost.

As an anime-only, going knee deep into this "bastardized" anime adaptation is already a loss, and I don't really care that all for characters with motives so half-assed, not even Takeru who's supposed to be the navigator, only to follow requests and whims.

Nov 25, 2021 6:57 AM

#14

TPatrioticOtaku

Offline

Jan 2008

234

When there is alien/zombie/other creatures invasion like this, there are people who is taking advantage of this as an opportunity to commit a crime/terrorist acts against human, just like in real world with pandemic going on, ppl take advantage of it, some peeps don't give a shit about saving lives.

Get your Portable ID!

Nov 28, 2021 11:22 PM

#15

Shnozz66

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Sep 2020

84

I watch this show and think "what am I watching? awe she's kuwaii what's happening ...." Demo..When that banger ending song starts you just don't care anymore truly the saving grace of this anime is Stereo Dive Foundation those funky Engrish lyrics just makes all the bad melt away. 5/10

Nov 29, 2021 9:41 AM

#16

limabitr

Offline

Apr 2021

12

It's not a *bad* episode per se but there are a couple of really bad direction decisions that are so basic that it makes me wonder if whoever made these decisions has even an elementary understanding of what they are doing. They are pretty much doing a straight adaptation of the manga so it baffles me that they would not include some things that the manga actually improved compared to the VN - such as showing us a glimpse of Chizurus father before he is killed, to give at least the tiniest bit of context to that revelation later on.
The scene with Ayamine from last episode's ending also goes absolutely nowhere. The obvious thing to do would have been to let the alarm go off as she is pinning him to the wall and have Takeru break free and go look for Yuuko. This is really basic stuff.

I'm not sure if this is the fault of the director, the writer or the episode director, but somebody did a pretty bad job with this episode.

Somebody did a pretty bad job with this all show. I had said, I think in ep 1 or 2, that this anime was to attract a new audience and now I don't know why I said that. All the time they dump a lot of information without proper context and it's easy to get lost in the story. I'm going to Manga, because the proposal is good, anyway.

Nov 30, 2021 7:31 AM

#17

Starchaser

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Nov 2017

4637

Well dat was an awkward transition from the last scene in the pervious episode to the beginning of this episode.

I liked that shot of Ayamine's profile

Dec 5, 2021 10:05 AM

#18

Catalano

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Oct 2010

20750

so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

Dec 5, 2021 7:33 PM

#19

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

Dec 5, 2021 8:15 PM

#20

Catalano

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Oct 2010

20750

ixarising said:

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Dec 5, 2021 11:14 PM

#21

dailybread

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Oct 2020

114

Catalano said:

ixarising said:

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

Dec 6, 2021 9:57 PM

#22

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

dailybread said:

Catalano said:

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

ixarisingDec 6, 2021 10:58 PM

Dec 6, 2021 11:23 PM

#23

dailybread

Offline

Oct 2020

114

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

dailybreadDec 6, 2021 11:27 PM

Dec 7, 2021 5:03 AM

#24

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

ixarisingDec 7, 2021 5:14 AM

Dec 7, 2021 8:44 AM

#25

dailybread

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Oct 2020

114

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

dailybreadDec 7, 2021 5:39 PM

Dec 7, 2021 9:54 AM

#26

Udin554

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Oct 2015

22

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

Catalano said:

ixarising said:

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

Spoiler from the MuvLuv manga vol 6:

The manga elaborate more on what happened in the coup from Sagiri's perspective. There's a rumor about a potential coup, orchestrated by US using the evergrowing sentiment from the people and military alike towards the current government's pro foreign power stance and their lack of consideration towards the people. The plan was to stage a coup, and then using the government to allow US interference in suppressing the coup and rescue the shogun. After that, the plan was to install a puppet government so that the US can gain control over Japan and use them as shield to ensure their safety from western BETA invasion. There's also a hint that Alternative V supporters were behind this incident too.

So to prevent that, Yoroi Sakon approach Sagiri and basically ask him to become the leader of the coup and make it so that it failed, but still ensuring that the core problems, that is the people's sentiment, was at least be heard and acknowledge, in hope that there will be no more pent up resentment and ensuring no more coup can happened again (either by internal problem or outside influence). Why Sagiri? Because he's the one that know exactly the whole matter, and willingly become a martyr for Japan just like General Ayamine before.

He still personally feel that the current government's stance was a mistake, but he didn't start this coup only because of that (in the manga he also said why start the coup in times like this when there's BETA right in the front door). Many interests were involved in this, internal and foreign alike. And with or without him, the coup will happened either way. If he steps in, at least he can steer this problem away from what the US wanted. In the end, the coup failed, the Japan's sentiment were addressed by the Shogun, and the US' plot were thwarted.

In conclusion, Sagiri wasn't the whole reason the coup started. The seed were already planted. It was only a matter of time before it happened, with or without him. And also, even if Japan's military deteriorate, with their influence if the plan succeeded the US can always bolster it with their own forces. What matters to them is that Japan still exist as a barrier for the "US Western Front". That's why by taking this matter with his own hand, Sagiri can try to steer it away from US' plan from inside, and with the help from Yoroi Sakon alerting Yuuko about it and working behind the scene, ensures that the plan will failed completely.

And lastly, I think you mistook Alt V with Alt IV there, the pro Alt IV US was the one supporting Yuuko, while the pro Alt V US(and those who against Alt IV) were the ones behind the HSST and quite possibly the coup.

Udin554Dec 7, 2021 10:03 AM

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Dec 7, 2021 5:34 PM

#27

dailybread

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Oct 2020

114

Udin554 said:

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

Catalano said:

ixarising said:

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

Spoiler from the MuvLuv manga vol 6:

The manga elaborate more on what happened in the coup from Sagiri's perspective. There's a rumor about a potential coup, orchestrated by US using the evergrowing sentiment from the people and military alike towards the current government's pro foreign power stance and their lack of consideration towards the people. The plan was to stage a coup, and then using the government to allow US interference in suppressing the coup and rescue the shogun. After that, the plan was to install a puppet government so that the US can gain control over Japan and use them as shield to ensure their safety from western BETA invasion. There's also a hint that Alternative V supporters were behind this incident too.

So to prevent that, Yoroi Sakon approach Sagiri and basically ask him to become the leader of the coup and make it so that it failed, but still ensuring that the core problems, that is the people's sentiment, was at least be heard and acknowledge, in hope that there will be no more pent up resentment and ensuring no more coup can happened again (either by internal problem or outside influence). Why Sagiri? Because he's the one that know exactly the whole matter, and willingly become a martyr for Japan just like General Ayamine before.

He still personally feel that the current government's stance was a mistake, but he didn't start this coup only because of that (in the manga he also said why start the coup in times like this when there's BETA right in the front door). Many interests were involved in this, internal and foreign alike. And with or without him, the coup will happened either way. If he steps in, at least he can steer this problem away from what the US wanted. In the end, the coup failed, the Japan's sentiment were addressed by the Shogun, and the US' plot were thwarted.

In conclusion, Sagiri wasn't the whole reason the coup started. The seed were already planted. It was only a matter of time before it happened, with or without him. And also, even if Japan's military deteriorate, with their influence if the plan succeeded the US can always bolster it with their own forces. What matters to them is that Japan still exist as a barrier for the "US Western Front". That's why by taking this matter with his own hand, Sagiri can try to steer it away from US' plan from inside, and with the help from Yoroi Sakon alerting Yuuko about it and working behind the scene, ensures that the plan will failed completely.

And lastly, I think you mistook Alt V with Alt IV there, the pro Alt IV US was the one supporting Yuuko, while the pro Alt V US(and those who against Alt IV) were the ones behind the HSST and quite possibly the coup.

Dec 8, 2021 12:21 AM

#28

Udin554

Offline

Oct 2015

22

dailybread said:

Udin554 said:

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

ixarising said:

dailybread said:

Catalano said:

ixarising said:

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

I hope you're referring to Kei not Sagiri cause Sagiri is the furthest thing from best character.

sagiri from alternative is pretty good, I agree that he's a scumbag in extra but this anime is not extra

Sagiri is pretty stupid. Both in TDA and alternative.

He's not stupid, if he was he wouldn't rose to the rank of a captain. He's just too emotionally driven.

I doubt he become the 1st Tactical Armor Regiment's commander by his own merit. Here's the interesting part

And now to Sagiri's way of thinking.

Spoiler from the MuvLuv manga vol 6:

The manga elaborate more on what happened in the coup from Sagiri's perspective. There's a rumor about a potential coup, orchestrated by US using the evergrowing sentiment from the people and military alike towards the current government's pro foreign power stance and their lack of consideration towards the people. The plan was to stage a coup, and then using the government to allow US interference in suppressing the coup and rescue the shogun. After that, the plan was to install a puppet government so that the US can gain control over Japan and use them as shield to ensure their safety from western BETA invasion. There's also a hint that Alternative V supporters were behind this incident too.

So to prevent that, Yoroi Sakon approach Sagiri and basically ask him to become the leader of the coup and make it so that it failed, but still ensuring that the core problems, that is the people's sentiment, was at least be heard and acknowledge, in hope that there will be no more pent up resentment and ensuring no more coup can happened again (either by internal problem or outside influence). Why Sagiri? Because he's the one that know exactly the whole matter, and willingly become a martyr for Japan just like General Ayamine before.

He still personally feel that the current government's stance was a mistake, but he didn't start this coup only because of that (in the manga he also said why start the coup in times like this when there's BETA right in the front door). Many interests were involved in this, internal and foreign alike. And with or without him, the coup will happened either way. If he steps in, at least he can steer this problem away from what the US wanted. In the end, the coup failed, the Japan's sentiment were addressed by the Shogun, and the US' plot were thwarted.

In conclusion, Sagiri wasn't the whole reason the coup started. The seed were already planted. It was only a matter of time before it happened, with or without him. And also, even if Japan's military deteriorate, with their influence if the plan succeeded the US can always bolster it with their own forces. What matters to them is that Japan still exist as a barrier for the "US Western Front". That's why by taking this matter with his own hand, Sagiri can try to steer it away from US' plan from inside, and with the help from Yoroi Sakon alerting Yuuko about it and working behind the scene, ensures that the plan will failed completely.

And lastly, I think you mistook Alt V with Alt IV there, the pro Alt IV US was the one supporting Yuuko, while the pro Alt V US(and those who against Alt IV) were the ones behind the HSST and quite possibly the coup.

Hmm, in hindsight I think I put too much of my own word on this. Yeah, the manga never mention that Sagiri wanted to intentionally lead the coup to fail. For that I stand corrected

Why I thought you said that Sagiri is the main reason the coup started was because from your and the other's previous post replies, I'm under the impression that both you and the other poster think that Sagiri was either unknowingly became the US's puppet for this coup, or he knows but doing it anyway just to push his own agenda, not caring about Japan's state whatsoever. If that's not what you're thinking, then I'm sorry for that.

What I want to highlight in this is that first, the coup WILL happen no matter what. If we see that even inside the government, the coup's soldiers, and the Major Walken's troops there were already US's agents or sympathizers (and even better, brainwashed soldiers), then it shows how deeply the US agents has infiltrated Japan and their own troops to ensure their plan will succeed. And of not Sagiri, the coup may be led by a person way more worse and easily be controlled by US.

Regarding Sagiri, I think the coup will succeed or not was never his intention (Inb4 yes, this is different from what I said before. I said this after comparing my and your point of view and reread the manga), as long as his terms were acknowledge by the Shogun. If the shootout in the capital never happened, and if the Shogun's words to take down arms and surrendered were conveyed to him earlier and properly by the Sendai Provisional Government, this coup will ended then and there, with Sagiri's forces surrendered and him most likely be executed as the mastermind. This is the reason why I thought that Sagiri wanted the coup to fail at first. While I realize now that it was not the case, I still think Sagiri never really wanted the coup to succeed either.

Also in the manga, he did said "A coup? in these times?" which implies that he somehow thought that a coup was a bad idea. He only agrees to lead the coup only until Sakon said there's US influence behind it. He also knows that doing it is basically a death sentence, implying that he knows or understand that this coup will most likely fail.

And he did cared about the Japan's state, but mostly from the point of view of their people. His concerns were not only his, but also the citizens and the military alike, most if not all. Their resentment towards America's treatment since the fall of mainland Chinese/Korean peninsula, the fall of Sadogashima, and the bombing of Yokohama; the increase of foreign influence and the current government's pro foreign/US stance; the treatment of refugees (one of them is the Mt Tengen evacuation). If this weren't addressed, it'll became like a silent bomb, waiting to explode anytime. It might not end with only a coup, but complete destruction of Japan as a nation. And this resentment was also the reason why US thought to use a coup in their plan.

So why did Sagiri lead the coup? or why did Sakon approach Sagiri so he will lead the coup? He's the one who cares very deeply towards the Japanese people and the future of Japan as a nation, but understand enough to not drag this out and focus only to what's needed to be done, that is made the people's resentment be known and acknowledged. If he didn't step up, as I said before, the coup will happened anyways, and the other, more incompetent and more ultra nationalistic person may took his place. It'll ended up way worse than what happened. Also the America's plan (not the coup, but their plan) will more likely to succeed because of that.

He is a puppet in this coup, yes. But he knows it and willingly became one so that he can try to stop the US's intention while also using this chance to let his and the people's sentiment be acknowledge by the Shogun. If you want to call him stupid, it's not because he lead the coup or his reason for doing it. In my opinion, he's stupid because he (hastily, in my opinion) murdered the cabinet and the Prime Minister which overcomplicated things, because he underestimated how deep the US has infiltrated Japan, and because he didn't realize his own provisional government's incompetency.

Lastly, I don't know if Sagiri's position in the military was because CIA interference, because in the VN or the manga it was never implied or suggested, so I won't speculate on that.

Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.

Dec 15, 2021 11:01 AM

#29

Roch2001

Offline

Jun 2015

3269

Last time I dealt with subs moving this fast I was watching Audition.

To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl

Dec 15, 2021 11:06 AM

#30

Roch2001

Offline

Jun 2015

3269

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

take you anime only hate to the manga forums and complain about us there.

To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl

Dec 15, 2021 6:17 PM

#31

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

Roch2001 said:
Last time I dealt with subs moving this fast I was watching Audition.

IKR, i was at shock with how fast they're speedreading through this.

Dec 18, 2021 5:34 PM

#32

gophercg

Offline

Mar 2012

4047

Good talk from classrep, Ayamine & Meiya adding characterization.
Weird edit from last ep Ayamine issue didnt resolve, just skipped.
by now everything Yoroi says makes 0 sense.
So far show never explains fully ija, ijf, cocean, who majesty, who shogun???

Dec 19, 2021 12:25 AM

#33

Lemonov

Offline

Nov 2018

37

Roch2001 said:

Catalano said:
so sad that the anime-onlys couldn't read the brilliant letters of Sagiri Naoya to Kei. Finally we have an episode with the best character in the VN

take you anime only hate to the manga forums and complain about us there.

What manga forums? The original is a VN. Can't anime only babbies do a single google search?

Dec 26, 2021 11:27 AM

#34

Rasco

Offline

Mar 2010

55555

to many unstable feeling and edgy threats. But damn to be fighting among themselves while preserving humanity I hope they all get raped by them aliens lolz.

Behold of my awesomeness~
controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted.
But my feels.

Dec 26, 2021 11:27 AM

#35

Rasco

Offline

Mar 2010

55555

to many unstable feeling and edgy threats. But damn to be fighting among themselves while preserving humanity I hope they all get raped by them aliens lolz.

Behold of my awesomeness~
controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted.
But my feels.

Jan 18, 2022 12:30 PM

#36

WolfWood37

Offline

Jul 2008

10599

Well that escalated quickly....but yeah let's have a coup in the middle of an extermination level war with a superior alien race.

You lose against the beta, all this country and people stuff is meaningless because no one will be left to care.

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