Why fans are OVERREACTING.?

Oct 14, 2021 9:07 AM

#2

Mq84jdk

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Oct 2020

1188

I’m enjoying it so far as an anime only so 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oct 14, 2021 9:24 AM

#3

herofelix77

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Jan 2021

388

It’s far worse then the VN. Those who haven’t played it won’t obviously feel the problems with the cut content and so on

Oct 14, 2021 9:25 AM

#4

Scordolo

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Jul 2020

10610

Why are you over reacting to the people who are over reacting to the series? You just contradicted yourself.

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Oct 14, 2021 9:29 AM

#5

Animaniaig

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Jan 2018

511

They aren't. So far, this is being butchered far worse than Tokyo Ghoul or Fate. It's not at all comparable to Star Wars and it's prequels as the original trilogy was made before and to be experienced without the prequels and Muv-Luv was not. They have quite literally started adapting it from the end and are butchering even that. There's no emotion, all of the lore and character development from two whole games is gone and there's a lack of emotion/tension in anything.

Nothing about this adaptation is remotely good or comparable to what you've mentioned. If this were a manga adaptation, this would be far, far more controversial as it's cut out the most important parts of the story by skipping the beginning, middle and all the build up just to adapt the ending.

Oct 14, 2021 9:30 AM

#6

ironcladgranite

Offline

Jan 2013

24

Fan of the original trilogy of VNs (especially Alternative). I've seen the first 2 episodes that are out. My immediate thoughts:

1. Episode 1 seems to be a filler, non-related episode. While I appreciate the attempt to try to provide more insight into the initial attacks from the BETA, the opening episode, in my opinion, was a bit boring.
2. Pacing. MLA alone is 50 hours. Episode 1 aside, they went through a LOT of content extremely quickly in Ep 2.
3. Meh art and animation. Yes, I understand it's a small studio, so it can't be helped. Still, I feel MLA deserves a higher-budget adaptation of the source material.
4. 12 episodes. There's NO way they can adapt even half the VN adequately with only one cour. They need at least 50 (the original VN is about 50ish hours, so even trimming down on descriptions and such there's no way you could do this in about 4 hours worth of content).

"If you’re always worried about crushing the ants beneath you, you won’t be able to walk." -
Guts (Berserk)

"Everything has a beginning and an end. Life is just a cycle of starts and stops. There are ends we don’t desire, but they’re inevitable, we have to face them. It’s what being human is all about." - Jet Black (Cowboy Bebop)

"The world cannot be changed with pretty words alone." - Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass)

"A true man doesn’t die even if he’s killed!" - Kamina (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)

Oct 14, 2021 10:05 AM

#7

Fudgebrownie

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Aug 2013

6

I’m just happy there’s an anime so I won’t complain unless they change the story :)

Oct 14, 2021 10:19 AM

#8

Lucifrost

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Feb 2016

10604

I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

Animaniaig said:
So far, this is being butchered far worse than Tokyo Ghoul or Fate. It's not at all comparable to Star Wars and it's prequels as the original trilogy was made before and to be experienced without the prequels and Muv-Luv was not. They have quite literally started adapting it from the end and are butchering even that.

You mean like how Ufotable adapted Fate spinoffs before the main story, or like how their Fate/Stay Night adaptation skips the beginning of the story. How is starting with Alternative any different from starting with Unlimited Blade Works?

その目だれの目？

Oct 14, 2021 10:20 AM

#9

Incognimous

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Jan 2019

73

Because they want it to be something it is not and i guess they are frustrated. I for one am glad that I read the VNs and experienced the story how it was intended, but I’m cool with an anime adaptation and I enjoy the parts that an anime adaptation can emphasize (action scenes etc). I do think some parts will be hard for anime onlies to understand, but if people enjoy it, awesome! If it makes people read the source, even more awesome. If it’s successful it will also help get more funding for future projects (including games) so I wish more fans of the original would be a bit more positive about it and invite people to give it a watch.

Oct 14, 2021 10:28 AM

#10

Animaniaig

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Jan 2018

511

Lucifrost said:
I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

Animaniaig said:
So far, this is being butchered far worse than Tokyo Ghoul or Fate. It's not at all comparable to Star Wars and it's prequels as the original trilogy was made before and to be experienced without the prequels and Muv-Luv was not. They have quite literally started adapting it from the end and are butchering even that.

You mean like how Ufotable adapted Fate spinoffs before the main story, or like how their Fate/Stay Night adaptation skips the beginning of the story. How is starting with Alternative any different from starting with Unlimited Blade Works?

Because the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation, whilst bad, was still not close to this poorly adapted and the 2006 version had existed for years. Not to mention Ufotable did actually put in the work to make Zero and UBW as newbie friendly as possible with half decent explanations early on. This summarises two entire games using a few lines and still images. They are not remotely similar. Especially considering that Fate routes don't lean as heavily thematically on each other as Alternative does on Extra/Unlimited as they are mostly separate stories with Extra, Unlimited and Alternative all being a single story that heavily rely on each other both contextually and thematically.

Oct 14, 2021 12:15 PM

#11

Zetsu_95

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Feb 2016

407

The fact Extra and Unlimited wasn't adapted at all means this was doomed to fail. Extra/Unlimited lays out the foundation and sets things up for Alternative. Think of it like watching the final movie in the LOTR Trilogy because Star Wars doesn't work for this kind of example. If those got adapted first fans wouldn't be complaining as much. While some are over reacting yes, the majority that hate it have valid reason to because there is so much problems in this 2nd episode it's disgusting.

And yeah of course you liked the first episode it's a original episode as in no bearing on the source material.

If you're a anime only you're either going to be confused as hell, or not see the problems the VN fans do because it's extremely glaring when you do.

With that being said I recommend the VN if you have the time

Oct 14, 2021 12:28 PM

#12

OppaiSugoi

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Jul 2014

4195

So OP, you’re telling me I can watch code geass R2 without seeing the first season?

Ok.

Death to anime.

Oct 14, 2021 1:14 PM

#13

FireFistYK

Offline

Jan 2016

1929

Because VN fans would only be satisfied if they gave this 150 episodes (or maybe not lol)

The problem with it is that it's adapting the last part of the trilogy but we already knew that so I don't why people are acting shocked suddenly. A few months ago we thought that it was gonna adapt the whole of alternative within 12 episodes but from the pacing so far we can see that it will not adapt everything, maybe not even up til Sadogashima.

I have my problems with the adaptation but the pacing is really not as bad as people are making it out to be but who am I kidding, there are still people who say that Clannad and Steins Gate are bad adaptations so nothing will satisfy them.

I was ready to shit on this adaptation and still am but from a directing point of view, it hasn't done anything majorly wrong yet. I was at first not happy that they decided to start with a filler but after ep 2 it makes a lot more sense because it introduced anime onlys into the Muv Luv universe and starting with Takeru waking up would just confuse them even more.

So what do we know so far? The higher-ups decided to adapt only the alternative game, which is a dumb decision but Muv-Luv isn't gonna sell a lot to weebs so it's understandable that they just want to skip to the meat of the story, after all the ones that are gonna buy the blu-rays and the merch won't be new fans but old Muv Luv fans. The animation studio was given a certain amount of episodes and are trying their best to work around that which they have done a good job with. It's an adaptation of the game, not a 1:1 copy of it so there are gonna be differences.

FireFistYKOct 14, 2021 1:20 PM

Oct 14, 2021 4:42 PM

#14

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

Lucifrost said:
I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

Animaniaig said:
So far, this is being butchered far worse than Tokyo Ghoul or Fate. It's not at all comparable to Star Wars and it's prequels as the original trilogy was made before and to be experienced without the prequels and Muv-Luv was not. They have quite literally started adapting it from the end and are butchering even that.

You mean like how Ufotable adapted Fate spinoffs before the main story, or like how their Fate/Stay Night adaptation skips the beginning of the story. How is starting with Alternative any different from starting with Unlimited Blade Works?

OMG, seriously? Using FSN as a comparison? This is worst possible example.
First off what do you mean by FSN spinoff? Ufotable didn't adapt Fate spinoff, Ufotable adapted the Fate Zero which is FSN PREQUEL. Fate Zero is there setup the stories to all the routes in the FSN VN.
And yes, the 2006 anime did skip the prequel in the VN and i personally didn't like it either. But FSN and Muv-Luv are completely different categories. FSN has 3 routes that have 3 different stories and 3 different focus. Muv-Luv is about 3 games with different stories that are deeply linked with each other.

Oct 14, 2021 6:29 PM

#15

Graciaus

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Jun 2012

191

People are getting mad over things we have known for awhile. It was only ever going to adapt the end so obviously extra and unlimited were going to be cut. Someone who hasn't read the trilogy shouldn't watch this and expect to fully get it. Why they would waste the first episode is only planned for 12 episodes is the real question.

People also overestimate how long it really takes to read these.

Oct 14, 2021 6:38 PM

#16

Lucifrost

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Feb 2016

10604

ixarising said:
And yes, the 2006 anime did skip the prequel in the VN

??? The 2006 anime didn't skip anything.
And I bought up those points in response to someone else who compared Fate to Muv Luv.

その目だれの目？

Oct 14, 2021 9:00 PM

#17

ixarising

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Feb 2015

1019

Lucifrost said:

ixarising said:
And yes, the 2006 anime did skip the prequel in the VN

??? The 2006 anime didn't skip anything.
And I bought up those points in response to someone else who compared Fate to Muv Luv.

It did to me. 4 adaptations to date and i haven't seen Archer doing housework. :( I know it's not shown in the VN as well but i kinda want to see it.
I probably quoted wrong person.

ixarisingOct 14, 2021 9:07 PM

Oct 14, 2021 11:57 PM

#18

Alex0714

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Sep 2011

24

VN fans are always going to complain.

People need to realize that it never was going to be a option to adapt Extra and Unlimited, it's IMPOSSIBLE.

The 2nd episode was fine. I'm just going to enjoy this miracle (because yeah, MLA getting a anime in 2021 it's a miracle) and wish for the best and expect more episodes after this season.

Oct 15, 2021 1:08 AM

#19

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

Alex0714 said:
VN fans are always going to complain.

People need to realize that it never was going to be a option to adapt Extra and Unlimited, it's IMPOSSIBLE.

The 2nd episode was fine. I'm just going to enjoy this miracle (because yeah, MLA getting a anime in 2021 it's a miracle) and wish for the best and expect more episodes after this season.

I'm not really complaining though. I'm a very simple guy, if i don't like something i just stay away from it. I won't go to some thread or forum dedicated to the series and bash on it, just for the sake of doing so.
I don't like to do that because
1. just because i don't like it doesn't mean others don't. I shouldn't just go there to complain and bash just because i didn't like it like them. That's like disrespecting other people's preference.
2. the end product be it TV, manga, movie etc is a product of peoples' hard work. We don't know how much effort they place into this which to us are just form of entertainment. I wouldn't like it at all if i place a lot effort to get something completed only for people to call it a shitty product without thinking about my feeling, so i don't do to others what i don't want to be done to me.

Oct 15, 2021 8:24 AM

#20

OppaiSugoi

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Jul 2014

4195

Graciaus said:
People are getting mad over things we have known for awhile. It was only ever going to adapt the end so obviously extra and unlimited were going to be cut. Someone who hasn't read the trilogy shouldn't watch this and expect to fully get it. Why they would waste the first episode is only planned for 12 episodes is the real question.

People also overestimate how long it really takes to read these.

Alex0714 said:
VN fans are always going to complain.

People need to realize that it never was going to be a option to adapt Extra and Unlimited, it's IMPOSSIBLE.

The 2nd episode was fine. I'm just going to enjoy this miracle (because yeah, MLA getting a anime in 2021 it's a miracle) and wish for the best and expect more episodes after this season.

I have the right to be mad, “not everything is fun and games ala extra.” Age is doing a disservice to both fanbases because they are greenlighting this adaptation, the hell they were thinking for a 1 cour…

Oct 15, 2021 9:06 AM

#21

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

OppaiSugoi said:

Graciaus said:
People are getting mad over things we have known for awhile. It was only ever going to adapt the end so obviously extra and unlimited were going to be cut. Someone who hasn't read the trilogy shouldn't watch this and expect to fully get it. Why they would waste the first episode is only planned for 12 episodes is the real question.

People also overestimate how long it really takes to read these.

Alex0714 said:
VN fans are always going to complain.

People need to realize that it never was going to be a option to adapt Extra and Unlimited, it's IMPOSSIBLE.

The 2nd episode was fine. I'm just going to enjoy this miracle (because yeah, MLA getting a anime in 2021 it's a miracle) and wish for the best and expect more episodes after this season.

I have the right to be mad, “not everything is fun and games ala extra.” Age is doing a disservice to both fanbases because they are greenlighting this adaptation, the hell they were thinking for a 1 cour…

Well Yoshimune pretty much isn't involved in everything for the anime. He did choose the new VA for the anime but as he mention in his 20th Age broadcast today. Episode 2 is the first time he saw the fortified suit designs for Squad 207. Either way, it seems like he mentioned in the end of the broadcast that the anime may just cover till the coup arc. I'm guessing they're keeping the balance for Integrate's promotion.

Oct 15, 2021 4:57 PM

#22

sspit

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Jan 2011

175

OppaiSugoi said:
Age is doing a disservice to both fanbases because they are greenlighting this adaptation, the hell they were thinking for a 1 cour…

I really hate to come to a forum only to dump on a series, even more so if its from a franchise I love, but this, thousand times.

MuvLuv has received 1 000 000 $. Yes, 1 million dollars, a VN on kickstarter!! The fanbase literally gave new life to the franchise and the ultimate result is... a suicide. They could have just made up a random 12-ep spin-off for and everyone would be happy! Why kill off the original game, which is the life and spirit of the franchise. This can not possibly end well, not for the anime, not for the fans, not for the companies behind it. Plus, this is not how you repay the fanbase, its how you alienate yourself from it. I just dont understand, I want to, but I cant.

As for an overreaction, we are talking about VN, that is arguably more popular than FSN, at least at some point it was, as far as I am aware, on VNDB at least. Lets make a little list of the most obvious mistakes:
- adapting the unadaptable, 150ep show or no show, type of thing
- not catering to original fans, or new fans, or anyone
- lower budget (I personally like the style, but there are strange issues)
- changed all voice actors - the characters are empty husks
- changed all music - this has nothing to do with muv luv
- pacing all over, flashbacks, made it like a generic isekai or something
- the cherry on top is filler 1st episode - that's gotta be the worst idea for 1st episode ever made

This is like you buy a Verified MuvLuv collector's edition branded 4k 144Hz OLED TV and inside a suspiciously small box, you find pink Portable PSP with TN display, no batteries, broken sound, no audio jack, discontinued PSP Store and preinstalled MuvLuv-styled Mario-clone with BETA instead of turtles, packaged with damaged photo of Marimo plushie from 2007 that you already have had for 14 years and 1% discount coupon for upcoming MuvLuv game on steam. For a minute you wonder what is it that you actually expected to find and realize what you are holding is an object of foreign origin and adversary to your beloved franchise, so you throw the whole box into the trash, trying to forget the mortifying trauma of ever admitting to anyone you spend your money on it.

Then you go replay the original trilogy on PC and enjoy your cultured experience, while trying to persuade as many anime-onlies on MAL to not forever spoil their MuvLuv experience with what is essentially a garbled up, nonsensical mashup of random blobs pretending to be MuvLuv characters.

Like seriously: Why does this show exist? The only explanation is this: sales boost for upcoming games (that are refreshing the franchise - yeah...). They went 12ep cause well animated OVA/movie for VN fans probably would be too niche or out of context and anything more would be waste of $$ for an ad. Extra will never be adapted and Ultimate can be a 10sec flashback (not really, 2nd ep proves it). They'll rush as much as possible and end at a good spot to gauge a response, so more proper series at a later date could be made, adapting the good stuff (S2 - Sadogashima, S3 - Original Hive). This is basically a trailer for an actual anime, that will never be made, because after this, MuvLuv in animated form will become an official meme. Even worse, for $$ the anime may actually happen 5 years from now (just like 5 years ago MuvLuv Alternative anime was never to happen), but by then its going to be a woke Netflix adaptation with all inclusive cast and all the other perks.

This anime may be ok as an anime that has nothing to do with anything (VN readers will need to find a way to cope and put up a strong AT field around this show). Time will tell.

Anyway:

If anyone is into robots, read the VN.

If anyone is into aliens, read the VN.

If anyone is into sci-fi, read the VN.

If anyone is into politics, read the VN.

If anyone is into time-travel, read the VN.

If anyone is into violence, shock, gore, PTSD, read the VN.

If anyone is into intense feels that will challenge the core of your being, read the VN.

Read Extra > Unlimited > Alternative >The Day After and spinoffs if you want. Just do not watch this show before you are absolutely sure you do not want to read the game!

Oct 15, 2021 6:57 PM

#23

Lucifrost

Offline

Feb 2016

10604

sspit said:
If anyone is into robots, read the VN.

If anyone is into aliens, read the VN.

If anyone is into sci-fi, read the VN.

If anyone is into politics, read the VN.

If anyone is into time-travel, read the VN.

If anyone is into violence, shock, gore, PTSD, read the VN.

If anyone is into intense feels that will challenge the core of your being, read the VN.

But don't read the visual novel unless you're also a fan of romantic comedies, because Extra has none of these things.

その目だれの目？

Oct 16, 2021 2:43 AM

#24

sho52

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Apr 2018

55

Lucifrost said:
I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

Lucifrost said:

sspit said:
If anyone is into robots, read the VN.

If anyone is into aliens, read the VN.

If anyone is into sci-fi, read the VN.

If anyone is into politics, read the VN.

If anyone is into time-travel, read the VN.

If anyone is into violence, shock, gore, PTSD, read the VN.

If anyone is into intense feels that will challenge the core of your being, read the VN.

But don't read the visual novel unless you're also a fan of romantic comedies, because Extra has none of these things.

Hmm… Yeah I also totally didn’t like Extra, but I don’t think others like it either. It’s fairly well reflected in the ratings on VNDB, so I’m not sure if you can draw the conclusion that “fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste” out of this lol. The fact that Extra and Unlimited were pretty bad/boring most likely contributed to Alternative being rated so highly just because of the sheer contrast beyond any expectation.

MFC: https://myfigurecollection.net/profile/sho52 VNDB: https://vndb.org/u143617

Oct 16, 2021 2:44 AM

#25

sho52

Offline

Apr 2018

55

I do think that Alternative could be such a religion-like experience to the readers that it’s easy to become extreme in one’s positions. I was also very suspicious of the adaptation, though I’m looking forward for this cour to end before drawing more conclusions.

They’re never going to replicate the total immersion provided by the VN. With anime as a medium I was hoping to see some key scenes in a different way (animated, third-party perspective etc.) and that would be decent enough for a fan of the original VN. It could also be something I can finally recommend non-VN-readers to watch, since the original is so long and not many people have the time to make it through, so now I don’t even bother trying. Obviously I’m not going to give this a 10/10 or even 9/10 but it hasn’t felt the dumpster fire that some seem to think either.

MFC: https://myfigurecollection.net/profile/sho52 VNDB: https://vndb.org/u143617

Oct 16, 2021 2:52 PM

#26

Tentaclehusbando

Offline

Nov 2020

30

Sandro8604 said:
I only saw the first episode. Gonna watch the second one after the anime ends airing.
My question is..- Why everyone is overreacting. CGI and Animation were ok-ok but you can't expect much better from a not so big studio. FFS they aren't Ufotable, Mappa Madhouse or Bones. And what is all the controversy about not adapting the prequel VNs or not showing enough of them. This is adaptation of Alternative novel and don't you guys think it should stick to it, they even metioned it clearly in the title itself.

You are missing the point because you're not a Muv-Luv fan, or read up enough on the background to even understand the complaint. The crux of the issue is that there are fundamental problems with the adaptation that got people concerned.

Most of the complaints aren't on the CGI or animation, but the fact that so much is against it to begin with, in addition to sentimental attachment (relive the experience). Due to a number of financial decisions, they cannot adapt it at an appropriate length, and cannot bring back the original voice actors or musicians.

And funny you mentioned Fate, their original Fate/Stay Night weren't well received, and a lot of fans will insist the Tsukihime anime adaptation doesn't exist. People expect a lot out of well loved franchises, sometimes too much, but their thoughts are understandable.

Sandro8604 said:
Sorry if I'm wrong but as I recall 'Star Wars' original trilogy was also a sequel and they adapted the prequel novels later. That didn't make Star Wars less popular. 🙃

This is not a good comparison at all.

The original Star Wars trilogy was a complete story independent of the prequels, they stand on their own, it doesn't matter if Lucas never made the prequels. You can watch the prequels without ever having seen the originals, you can watch the originals without ever having seen the prequels.

Muv-Luv is different, it is a story about a protagonist having to live alternative timelines, while being able to remember prior experiences. Showing what happened is important to telling this story. Each section is a part of the protagonist's growth as a character. The protagonist is a mental kid at Extra (part 1), teenager at Unlimited (part 2), and adult at Alternative (part 3). Cutting out Extra is one thing, but cutting out Unlimited is like trying to adapt "All you need is Kill (Edge of Tomorrow)" without the parts where he went through training, suffer failure, resets, and just go straight to the boss fight. It's going to be a weaker story, because it relies on showing the trials the protagonist went through.

A more appropriate analogy would be only showing "Return of the jedi", cutting out "A new hope" and "The empire strikes back". All you have is the endgame featuring a grown up Luke Skywalker, none of the character growth, none of the victories and defeat.

TentaclehusbandoOct 16, 2021 2:57 PM

Oct 27, 2021 2:07 AM

#27

LeonhartAugust

Voltekka!

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Sep 2017

4659

Why are the fans discontent at an adaptation of a VN that skips to the third part of the trilogy? Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder………..

Oct 27, 2021 12:53 PM

#28

Thai777

Offline

Jun 2014

1193

VN reader are known to be obnoxious and want perfection from their adaptation, me included.

This problem is further exacerbated because this VN is hella popular (1mil$ kickstarter to get it in english).

Oct 28, 2021 3:04 PM

#29

Catalano

Offline

Oct 2010

20677

it's not an over reaction at all, the VN is actually good, all 3 of them.
the adaptation is pure garbage, even as a stand alone it doesn't work

Oct 29, 2021 11:22 AM

#30

Stormen

Offline

Jun 2014

757

In this thread we have idiots who havent read the VN's being all judgmental while not knowing what the heck they're talking about. Fucking rich.

Oct 30, 2021 1:06 PM

#31

Tentaclehusbando

Offline

Nov 2020

30

Stormen said:
In this thread we have idiots who havent read the VN's being all judgmental while not knowing what the heck they're talking about. Fucking rich.

Let's be fair, it's not just anime-only, there are people who really hate Extra.

Oct 31, 2021 12:20 PM

#32

Enerccio

Offline

Sep 2007

80

It's worse than VN. So what? I expected it to be. Still a fun watch, wish animation was better

Oct 31, 2021 3:13 PM

#33

Stormen

Offline

Jun 2014

757

Tentaclehusbando said:

Stormen said:
In this thread we have idiots who havent read the VN's being all judgmental while not knowing what the heck they're talking about. Fucking rich.

Let's be fair, it's not just anime-only, there are people who really hate Extra.

You can make this story work with unlimited only as backstory to be fair. Just description or small clips of extra would be enough, if anything. And unlimited is great. Extra was a pile of nothing for you to get to know the characters.

I've seen 2 episodes now and the lack of context really hurts the show. Everything is presented in a linear fashion in the VN's and you know whats what, but here you don't know what the heck is going on from the beginning.

Let's see if they give more backstory later to make up for it.

Oct 31, 2021 6:50 PM

#34

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

Stormen said:

Tentaclehusbando said:

Let's be fair, it's not just anime-only, there are people who really hate Extra.

You can make this story work with unlimited only as backstory to be fair. Just description or small clips of extra would be enough, if anything. And unlimited is great. Extra was a pile of nothing for you to get to know the characters.

I've seen 2 episodes now and the lack of context really hurts the show. Everything is presented in a linear fashion in the VN's and you know whats what, but here you don't know what the heck is going on from the beginning.

Let's see if they give more backstory later to make up for it.

What do you mean Extra is a pile of nothing? Extra is for the setup of Takeru and the girls he bonded with. It's to help facilitate his interactions with the girls in Unlimited and Alternative. Also if Extra wasn't there Alternative 4 would have failed. The 00 unit is only successfully created thanks to Extra Yuuko.

Muv-Luv was originally planned to be 1 single VN only. It's because the planned Sumika route was too long that they had to split out the route into a sequel VN. That's part of the reason why Extra felt unnecessary. Because it's importance wasn't shown till Alternative with Extra Yuuko helping out on the completion of Alternative 4 and Valgern-On being used as a base for XM3.

ixarisingOct 31, 2021 6:53 PM

Nov 3, 2021 8:15 AM

#35

Stormen

Offline

Jun 2014

757

ixarising said:

Stormen said:

You can make this story work with unlimited only as backstory to be fair. Just description or small clips of extra would be enough, if anything. And unlimited is great. Extra was a pile of nothing for you to get to know the characters.

I've seen 2 episodes now and the lack of context really hurts the show. Everything is presented in a linear fashion in the VN's and you know whats what, but here you don't know what the heck is going on from the beginning.

Let's see if they give more backstory later to make up for it.

What do you mean Extra is a pile of nothing? Extra is for the setup of Takeru and the girls he bonded with. It's to help facilitate his interactions with the girls in Unlimited and Alternative. Also if Extra wasn't there Alternative 4 would have failed. The 00 unit is only successfully created thanks to Extra Yuuko.

Muv-Luv was originally planned to be 1 single VN only. It's because the planned Sumika route was too long that they had to split out the route into a sequel VN. That's part of the reason why Extra felt unnecessary. Because it's importance wasn't shown till Alternative with Extra Yuuko helping out on the completion of Alternative 4 and Valgern-On being used as a base for XM3.

Extra is a big pile of nothing.

Nov 3, 2021 8:52 AM

#36

shakuganexa

Offline

Mar 2020

13

Animaniaig said:

Lucifrost said:
I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

You mean like how Ufotable adapted Fate spinoffs before the main story, or like how their Fate/Stay Night adaptation skips the beginning of the story. How is starting with Alternative any different from starting with Unlimited Blade Works?

Because the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation, whilst bad, was still not close to this poorly adapted and the 2006 version had existed for years. Not to mention Ufotable did actually put in the work to make Zero and UBW as newbie friendly as possible with half decent explanations early on. This summarises two entire games using a few lines and still images. They are not remotely similar. Especially considering that Fate routes don't lean as heavily thematically on each other as Alternative does on Extra/Unlimited as they are mostly separate stories with Extra, Unlimited and Alternative all being a single story that heavily rely on each other both contextually and thematically.

Ufotable's quality has become worse in recent years. UBW 2006 is the worst adaptation ever. Type-Moon branded that garbage as the true Fate and failed miserably. They tried again with movie and that failed too.

Type-Moon has gotten so bad after releasing FGO that Ufotable rightfully told Nasu to stay away and produced a masterpiece. Type-Moon at its current state should be banned from being involved in games or anime. The Tsukihime Remake is so bad it ruined the series, FGO killed Fate for good. They need to stop butchering their properties and just license it to people who actually care, not just trying to make a quick buck.

Nov 3, 2021 9:06 AM

#37

Animaniaig

Offline

Jan 2018

511

shakuganexa said:

Animaniaig said:

Because the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation, whilst bad, was still not close to this poorly adapted and the 2006 version had existed for years. Not to mention Ufotable did actually put in the work to make Zero and UBW as newbie friendly as possible with half decent explanations early on. This summarises two entire games using a few lines and still images. They are not remotely similar. Especially considering that Fate routes don't lean as heavily thematically on each other as Alternative does on Extra/Unlimited as they are mostly separate stories with Extra, Unlimited and Alternative all being a single story that heavily rely on each other both contextually and thematically.

Ufotable's quality has become worse in recent years. UBW 2006 is the worst adaptation ever. Type-Moon branded that garbage as the true Fate and failed miserably. They tried again with movie and that failed too.

Type-Moon has gotten so bad after releasing FGO that Ufotable rightfully told Nasu to stay away and produced a masterpiece. Type-Moon at its current state should be banned from being involved in games or anime. The Tsukihime Remake is so bad it ruined the series, FGO killed Fate for good. They need to stop butchering their properties and just license it to people who actually care, not just trying to make a quick buck.

Terrible bait. Firstly, UBW was not adapted in 2006. It was first adapted by Deen in 2010. The 2006 adaptation is the Fate route.
Second, none of the Fate adaptations are close to being called "masterpieces" in any meaning of the word. Ufotable's adaptations are botched at best due to cut, mishandled and misrepresented content. Nobody that isn't fluent in Japanese actually knows anything really about TsukiR besides some very vague things because it has no translation and is very unlikely to have one in the near future. So I'm very confused as to where you got the ruined Tsukihime part from because everything that overseas fans know looks to be an improvement on something extremely rough, dated and needed updating anyway.
As for FGO, most of it at this point is better than 80-90% of other Fate entries considering they consist of things like Prisma, Apocrypha, most of Fate/Zero and Fate/Requiem.
TLDR: bait better next time.

Nov 3, 2021 9:50 AM

#38

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

Stormen said:

ixarising said:

What do you mean Extra is a pile of nothing? Extra is for the setup of Takeru and the girls he bonded with. It's to help facilitate his interactions with the girls in Unlimited and Alternative. Also if Extra wasn't there Alternative 4 would have failed. The 00 unit is only successfully created thanks to Extra Yuuko.

Muv-Luv was originally planned to be 1 single VN only. It's because the planned Sumika route was too long that they had to split out the route into a sequel VN. That's part of the reason why Extra felt unnecessary. Because it's importance wasn't shown till Alternative with Extra Yuuko helping out on the completion of Alternative 4 and Valgern-On being used as a base for XM3.

Extra is a big pile of nothing.

Yeah and without Extra, Alternative 4 would never been completed. So the fact that you're even saying this is either you're a troll, or you didn't even bother reading the story.

Nov 3, 2021 10:48 AM

#39

shakuganexa

Offline

Mar 2020

13

Animaniaig said:

shakuganexa said:

Ufotable's quality has become worse in recent years. UBW 2006 is the worst adaptation ever. Type-Moon branded that garbage as the true Fate and failed miserably. They tried again with movie and that failed too.

Type-Moon has gotten so bad after releasing FGO that Ufotable rightfully told Nasu to stay away and produced a masterpiece. Type-Moon at its current state should be banned from being involved in games or anime. The Tsukihime Remake is so bad it ruined the series, FGO killed Fate for good. They need to stop butchering their properties and just license it to people who actually care, not just trying to make a quick buck.

Terrible bait. Firstly, UBW was not adapted in 2006. It was first adapted by Deen in 2010. The 2006 adaptation is the Fate route.
Second, none of the Fate adaptations are close to being called "masterpieces" in any meaning of the word. Ufotable's adaptations are botched at best due to cut, mishandled and misrepresented content. Nobody that isn't fluent in Japanese actually knows anything really about TsukiR besides some very vague things because it has no translation and is very unlikely to have one in the near future. So I'm very confused as to where you got the ruined Tsukihime part from because everything that overseas fans know looks to be an improvement on something extremely rough, dated and needed updating anyway.
As for FGO, most of it at this point is better than 80-90% of other Fate entries considering they consist of things like Prisma, Apocrypha, most of Fate/Zero and Fate/Requiem.
TLDR: bait better next time.

Ufotable's UBW and the subsequent movies like Heaven's feel are masterpieces. Fate is such a big visual novel that it is not just possible to fit everything in an anime. FGO has good ratings because of Fanservice, it is not a good series. Deen adapted Fate and used UBW as inspiration. It is a UBW adaptation that is just bad

I have played Tsukihime in Japanese and the original is better. I do not know why this Nasuverse exist but I do not need multiple timelines and dimensions and whatever Nasu can think of putting to try link Tsukihime to Fate and FGO. Arceuid is a Saber apparently and Shiki might well be Archer at this point. The moment they departed from the original route is where everything falls apart. The CG is not good too. I don't know if this remake was treated as a remake because FGO has better drawing than this remake. Is this trash from 5 years ago? Because it looks the part. After the second half of Tsukihime, a Tsukihime x Fate VN is next if they forgotten to ruin, their other franchises.

FGO is a poisoned chalice, hell Fate as a brand is milked to death at this point. Tsukihime was a doujin game. It was released in a Comiket. It is a perfect and flawed visual novel. I don't know why it is dated because it influenced a lot of visual novels after it. It needed a graphical and UI update, but not a update to link it to FGO.

The Tsukihime Remake that I want is the remake project that was being worked in after Fate Stay Night before being shelved. Nasu said in a magazine interview that Tsukihime will have reworked graphics and further content.

Nov 3, 2021 10:53 AM

#40

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

shakuganexa said:

Animaniaig said:

shakuganexa said:

Animaniaig said:

Lucifrost said:
I knew fans of Muv-Luv have bad taste, but the reception this anime has gotten is so much more insufferable than I expected.

Animaniaig said:
So far, this is being butchered far worse than Tokyo Ghoul or Fate. It's not at all comparable to Star Wars and it's prequels as the original trilogy was made before and to be experienced without the prequels and Muv-Luv was not. They have quite literally started adapting it from the end and are butchering even that.

You mean like how Ufotable adapted Fate spinoffs before the main story, or like how their Fate/Stay Night adaptation skips the beginning of the story. How is starting with Alternative any different from starting with Unlimited Blade Works?

Because the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation, whilst bad, was still not close to this poorly adapted and the 2006 version had existed for years. Not to mention Ufotable did actually put in the work to make Zero and UBW as newbie friendly as possible with half decent explanations early on. This summarises two entire games using a few lines and still images. They are not remotely similar. Especially considering that Fate routes don't lean as heavily thematically on each other as Alternative does on Extra/Unlimited as they are mostly separate stories with Extra, Unlimited and Alternative all being a single story that heavily rely on each other both contextually and thematically.

Ufotable's quality has become worse in recent years. UBW 2006 is the worst adaptation ever. Type-Moon branded that garbage as the true Fate and failed miserably. They tried again with movie and that failed too.

Type-Moon has gotten so bad after releasing FGO that Ufotable rightfully told Nasu to stay away and produced a masterpiece. Type-Moon at its current state should be banned from being involved in games or anime. The Tsukihime Remake is so bad it ruined the series, FGO killed Fate for good. They need to stop butchering their properties and just license it to people who actually care, not just trying to make a quick buck.

Terrible bait. Firstly, UBW was not adapted in 2006. It was first adapted by Deen in 2010. The 2006 adaptation is the Fate route.
Second, none of the Fate adaptations are close to being called "masterpieces" in any meaning of the word. Ufotable's adaptations are botched at best due to cut, mishandled and misrepresented content. Nobody that isn't fluent in Japanese actually knows anything really about TsukiR besides some very vague things because it has no translation and is very unlikely to have one in the near future. So I'm very confused as to where you got the ruined Tsukihime part from because everything that overseas fans know looks to be an improvement on something extremely rough, dated and needed updating anyway.
As for FGO, most of it at this point is better than 80-90% of other Fate entries considering they consist of things like Prisma, Apocrypha, most of Fate/Zero and Fate/Requiem.
TLDR: bait better next time.

Ufotable's UBW and the subsequent movies like Heaven's feel are masterpieces. Fate is such a big visual novel that it is not just possible to fit everything in an anime. FGO has good ratings because of Fanservice, it is not a good series. Deen adapted Fate and used UBW as inspiration. It is a UBW adaptation that is just bad

I have played Tsukihime in Japanese and the original is better. I do not know why this Nasuverse exist but I do not need multiple timelines and dimensions and whatever Nasu can think of putting to try link Tsukihime to Fate and FGO. Arceuid is a Saber apparently and Shiki might well be Archer at this point. The moment they departed from the original route is where everything falls apart. The CG is not good too. I don't know if this remake was treated as a remake because FGO has better drawing than this remake. Is this trash from 5 years ago? Because it looks the part. After the second half of Tsukihime, a Tsukihime x Fate VN is next if they forgotten to ruin, their other franchises.

FGO is a poisoned chalice, hell Fate as a brand is milked to death at this point. Tsukihime was a doujin game. It was released in a Comiket. It is a perfect and flawed visual novel. I don't know why it is dated because it influenced a lot of visual novels after it. It needed a graphical and UI update, but not a update to link it to FGO.

The Tsukihime Remake that I want is the remake project that was being worked in after Fate Stay Night before being shelved. Nasu said in a magazine interview that Tsukihime will have reworked graphics and further content.

Deen adapted the Fate route and took some elements from UBW and HF.

Nov 3, 2021 11:11 AM

#41

shakuganexa

Offline

Mar 2020

13

[quote=ixarising message=64826801][quote=shakuganexa message=64826780][quote=Animaniaig message=64826057][quote=shakuganexa message=64825958][quote=Animaniaig message=64655959]

Lucifrost said:

Deen adapted the Fate route and took some elements from UBW and HF.

Which is why you should stay fateful to the source material. For the time it was a good anime. It really had no competition back then.

Muv Luv Alternative 2022 is a mess. At this point I'm questioning whether the director in charge of this actually adapted the visual novel or just look at the CGs and thought he can make a good anime adaptation by just looking at the CGs. It's a tragedy. I do hope this can be salvaged but I doubt it can be. Scenes cannot make up for the lack of story. Even visual novel readers will struggle to understand this mess let alone the casual audience who probably just watch this because of hype, completely a noob to the series.

Only the OP song is good. That's the only thing that's better than the visual novel. The visuals itself is competent considering the people working on this are . I don't judge the CGI because this is isn't a high budget anime.

I wish we rather had an animated visual novel remake than an bad anime.

Dec 5, 2021 11:05 AM

#42

Tentaclehusbando

Offline

Nov 2020

30

Stormen said:

ixarising said:

What do you mean Extra is a pile of nothing? Extra is for the setup of Takeru and the girls he bonded with. It's to help facilitate his interactions with the girls in Unlimited and Alternative. Also if Extra wasn't there Alternative 4 would have failed. The 00 unit is only successfully created thanks to Extra Yuuko.

Muv-Luv was originally planned to be 1 single VN only. It's because the planned Sumika route was too long that they had to split out the route into a sequel VN. That's part of the reason why Extra felt unnecessary. Because it's importance wasn't shown till Alternative with Extra Yuuko helping out on the completion of Alternative 4 and Valgern-On being used as a base for XM3.

Extra is a big pile of nothing.

Extra is hamfisted because it was written poorly, and it had aspects of early 2000s games which didn't age well.

On the other hand, plot wise it is necessary as a part of setup. Contrast, different plot devices, etc.

Dec 10, 2021 6:52 AM

#43

CautiousShadow

Offline

Jul 2021

122

Having read the reviews, I won't bother with this anime. Muv - Luv is one of the best VN trilogies I have ever read. I think the problem stems from them starting on the third part of the trilogy. I mean they could have at least done the other parts.

Extra = could probably be done in the shortest amount of episodes, maybe less than 10, just to develop the characters a bit.

Unlimited = the second arc would need to be told. All the detail and explanations would be in this season. Likely 25 or more episodes.

Alternative = since you already explained everything in the second arc, this season could be shorter, as it only needs to go through things that weren't in the second arc. You could probably do this in 10-15 episodes.

Dec 12, 2021 5:11 AM

#44

otakuops7

Offline

Apr 2021

40

Yes they COULD have done Extra and Unlimited but who's going to pay for that? It seems people don't understand everything requires money to produce, they only see the final product on TV and take it for granted.

I played the trilogy and they're doing what they can to fit everything in 12 episodes, well.. I should say it's very clear by now that it will not end on 12. My only big complaint is the visual quality, it could be a lot better and certain voices actors are not suitable, for example Takeru, which is annoying since he's a main character. Obviously this is not as good as the VNs.

Dec 12, 2021 5:34 AM

#45

ixarising

Offline

Feb 2015

1019

otakuops7 said:
Yes they COULD have done Extra and Unlimited but who's going to pay for that? It seems people don't understand everything requires money to produce, they only see the final product on TV and take it for granted.

I played the trilogy and they're doing what they can to fit everything in 12 episodes, well.. I should say it's very clear by now that it will not end on 12. My only big complaint is the visual quality, it could be a lot better and certain voices actors are not suitable, for example Takeru, which is annoying since he's a main character. Obviously this is not as good as the VNs.

Well the current VA is a fresh one while the original VA is quite a veteran at that time.

Mar 10, 2022 6:15 AM

#46

Tentaclehusbando

Offline

Nov 2020

30

otakuops7 said:
Yes they COULD have done Extra and Unlimited but who's going to pay for that? It seems people don't understand everything requires money to produce, they only see the final product on TV and take it for granted.

Nobody is contesting that, but a major part of the issue here is the entire production had problems from the start that would influence creative decisions. For example artist selection, the casting, the animation, were all limited to what/who Avex wanted to promote WITHIN the Avex family. This isn't unusual, it CAN save costs, but at the same time the results are pretty telling, as mentioned by ixarising and a number of other users here and on different sites.

ixarising said:
Well the current VA is a fresh one while the original VA is quite a veteran at that time.

Dec 27, 2022 4:09 PM

#47

koneroko

Offline

Sep 2019

119

The game is super niche of course the vocal minority are the loudest.

RECENT REVIEWS: Very Positive (36)
ALL REVIEWS: Overwhelmingly Positive (1,809)

See? Only 1.8k lmao

I'm still enjoying this despite having not played nor plan to play the game.

This is the problem with Japan, they are content to release mediocre VN games hence why they're being overtaken by Korean and China (Genshin Impact).

Majority of people don't want to play VN game they want a triple-A Muv-Luv game that controls like Anthem and a game that has TONS of contents.

C6R5 Raiden

Poll: » Muv-Luv Alternative Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 ) Stark700 - Dec 22, 2021	82	by Unkrowned »» Jul 11, 2023 4:31 AM
Poll: » Muv-Luv Alternative Episode 11 Discussion Stark700 - Dec 15, 2021	45	by MoeMoeKyun »» Nov 16, 2022 7:04 PM
Poll: » Muv-Luv Alternative Episode 10 Discussion Stark700 - Dec 8, 2021	44	by MoeMoeKyun »» Nov 16, 2022 6:44 PM
» There is no Muv Luv Alternative anime ( 1 2 ) OppaiSugoi - Oct 13, 2021	63	by ixarising »» Oct 8, 2022 11:19 PM
» Do I have to watch the parent story? Kappejoj - Sep 22, 2021	21	by Animaniaig »» Oct 6, 2022 9:43 AM

Why fans are OVERREACTING.?

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