Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- (light novel)
| So, I don't exactly hate Re:Zero and rather liked the second season. I thought the first season, up until the last 5 episodes, were quite boring. I thought Subaru was extremely annoying. I found all of the side characters (excluding Reinhard and Beatrice) to be bland and nothing special. It also just wasn't interesting for the most part. When s2 started airing, I decided I'd give it a shot and I loved it. It's probably because I didn't like Subaru up until the end of s1, so I really enjoyed the growth he received in s2. |
JuuchiYosamu said: That is ..... too vague. When you say really gets going, i assume it would be fun to watch? I guess I'll give it a try then. "Fun" isn't really how I'll describe it, perhaps you would start to feel disgusted at some scenes, and annoyed at the protagonist for some stupid actions, but it helps better characterize him as not a kirito or generic isekai MC, he is more realistic and flawed like a real human, that's why he's in my opinion, one of the better written protagonists these days. |
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| I personally just find it quite boring. the plot is very good but it doesn't manage to keep me engaged. |
| Because I can. I'm not into harems and waifu blobs, I prefer something more thoughtful. |
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katsucats said: I couldn't help but feel like Subaru isn't really suffering throughout the show, that it's just him pretending to be a drama queen. Put it this way: If each death is an unimaginable pain, then after 3-4 of them, a person would think to maximize his gains from each iteration. That means to gather as much information as possible and figure out ways to solve the mystery. But after hundreds of deaths, Subaru still goes about things in the dumbest ways possible, still gets a boner after Emilia -- it's just... unbelievable. It's almost as if he has a death fetish. Wow...I think you missed the whole point of S2P1. What you said about the whole 'a person would would think to maximize' stuff is EXACTLY what Subaru is doing. He IS SELF-ABUSING Return By Death because he devalues his own life and think it's worthless. He used RBD to gain info and figure out a way to deal with Sanctuary and the mansion's problems. He thinks if he can save everyone at the end then it doesn't matter what happens to him. And don't do this 'after 100 deaths' bs. He only died like 5 or 6 times in S2P1 and use the proper amount of time he had to figure out things. He was pushed to the point were everything seem impossible to him. Roswaal's plan made RBD useless, which means no matter how many times he die, Subaru on his own can't do anything now. Don't overexaggerate things which doesn't make sense. The whole S2P1 was his character development and you missed the whole point. |
l--_--l said: Weed said: Extremely boring (S2 at least) and awful pacing on this arc imo pluginfish said: I rated S1 a 8. S2 is extremely boring. Subaru didn't make 1 save point in 10+ episode, it is that slow. Emilia might be the most boring/flat MC I've ever seen. epidemia78 said: I liked season 1 a lot. It's similar in many ways to Steins Gate so what's not to love? Season 2 has been a huge disappointment. It's slow, tedious and chock full of badly written dialogue. Are you guys sure its not because you want to see more of Rem? I can tell you’re making a joke(I think?) but I don’t think Rem is a good character. the story would be pretty great if they paced it right but spending an entire like 20 episodes on this arc was incredibly unneeded. but there were better characters in this arc at least, I just find it too boring to keep watching for the time being. don’t get me wrong it is a well written story though |
Weed said: Majority of people on mal love rem(exclude me), so I figured you guys were similar.I can tell you’re making a joke(I think?) but I don’t think Rem is a good character. the story would be pretty great if they paced it right but spending an entire like 20 episodes on this arc was incredibly unneeded. but there were better characters in this arc at least, I just find it too boring to keep watching for the time being. don’t get me wrong it is a well written story though |
I am a useless student of society. Tests are my body and Grades are my blood. I have done over a thousand assignments. Unseen by teachers, nor done properly. Yet, those hands shall never hold an outstanding grade. So, as I pray... Unlimited Homeworks. |
| Despite what I have on my list I made it to the end of S2 part 1 and without spreading toxicity( that and I have already wrote my opinion on a similar thread) lets just say that I hate every single thing about this show lol + everyone here pretty much sums up my thoughts |
nhc9Feb 23, 2021 7:54 AM
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| It might not be the worst show I've ever seen (a fair distance from it, actually) but it's definitely the one I hate the most. Reasons are as follows: 1: Massively gory and over the top to the point where it becomes facepalm-worthy and not shocking at all 2: Every single character is an insufferable piece of shit 3: (only applicable to the first season) The arcs follow a very predictable format which gets boring fast 4: Dialogue between characters is dull to read, and I find it very difficult to care most of the time. wow gee, more exposition, how exciting yeahhhhhhhh 5: Not really a valid criticism but I find all of the 'wholesome' or 'sad' parts of the show to be really cringy and pathetic 6: THE CHARACTERS CRY LIKE EVERY FIVE SECONDS, WHY IS EVERYONE IN THIS SHOW SUCH A SNOWFLAKE rant over i guess |
pls play jet set radio future for the microsoft xbox. thanks |
mojito_ said: It might not be the worst show I've ever seen (a fair distance from it, actually) but it's definitely the one I hate the most. Reasons are as follows: 1: Massively gory and over the top to the point where it becomes facepalm-worthy and not shocking at all 2: Every single character is an insufferable piece of shit 3: (only applicable to the first season) The arcs follow a very predictable format which gets boring fast 4: Dialogue between characters is dull to read, and I find it very difficult to care most of the time 5: Not really a valid criticism but I find all of the 'wholesome' or 'sad' parts of the show to be really cringy and pathetic 6: THE CHARACTERS CRY LIKE EVERY FIVE SECONDS, WHY IS EVERYONE IN THIS SHOW SUCH A SNOWFLAKE rant over i guess 2. Not every character is an insufferable piece of shit, come on now... 6. If you die a lot and have to start over without anyone remembering what happened, that can be pretty devastating to go through. So I get that Subaru would cry. I do agree with the rest of your arguments |
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln |
| Because it's unappealing to me, and their fandom is so annoying... |
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| It was garbage. I haven't seen season 2, and I wouldn't say it was entirely irredeemable so maybe it got better, but season 1 was honestly garbage. Good visuals and music carried it, along with low tier waifus. Plot? Interesting, but vague with a lot left unanswered. Characters? Awful. Some of the worst in anime. Subaru is just pathetic, females are just there to be waifus and have little to no depth or personality outside their dere trope, main villain for season 1 was silly and absurd, parody level absurdity. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
MathisDB said: mojito_ said: It might not be the worst show I've ever seen (a fair distance from it, actually) but it's definitely the one I hate the most. Reasons are as follows: 1: Massively gory and over the top to the point where it becomes facepalm-worthy and not shocking at all 2: Every single character is an insufferable piece of shit 3: (only applicable to the first season) The arcs follow a very predictable format which gets boring fast 4: Dialogue between characters is dull to read, and I find it very difficult to care most of the time 5: Not really a valid criticism but I find all of the 'wholesome' or 'sad' parts of the show to be really cringy and pathetic 6: THE CHARACTERS CRY LIKE EVERY FIVE SECONDS, WHY IS EVERYONE IN THIS SHOW SUCH A SNOWFLAKE rant over i guess 2. Not every character is an insufferable piece of shit, come on now... 6. If you die a lot and have to start over without anyone remembering what happened, that can be pretty devastating to go through. So I get that Subaru would cry. I do agree with the rest of your arguments 2: ok maybe echidna is okay, but I can’t stand anyone else 6: I can understand Subarus constant crying but it’s not just him that cries - a load of the other characters scream and cry for little to no reaso |
pls play jet set radio future for the microsoft xbox. thanks |
| Because the characters suck and aren't interesting, also it was really boring. |
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mojito_ said: MathisDB said: 2. Not every character is an insufferable piece of shit, come on now... 6. If you die a lot and have to start over without anyone remembering what happened, that can be pretty devastating to go through. So I get that Subaru would cry. I do agree with the rest of your arguments 2: ok maybe echidna is okay, but I can’t stand anyone else 6: I can understand Subarus constant crying but it’s not just him that cries - a load of the other characters scream and cry for little to no reaso 2. Reinhard is actually a likeable character as well imo 6. Yeah some characters just cry because of the "emotional value to the anime", which is indeed unnecessary. |
| "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln |
l--_--l said: Weed said: Extremely boring (S2 at least) and awful pacing on this arc imo pluginfish said: I rated S1 a 8. S2 is extremely boring. Subaru didn't make 1 save point in 10+ episode, it is that slow. Emilia might be the most boring/flat MC I've ever seen. epidemia78 said: I liked season 1 a lot. It's similar in many ways to Steins Gate so what's not to love? Season 2 has been a huge disappointment. It's slow, tedious and chock full of badly written dialogue. Are you guys sure its not because you want to see more of Rem? Rem is nice and all, definitely more interesting than Emilia... but I prefer Ram and Betty anyway. |
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SinOfSlothKing said: 1. He keeps screaming and saying that he gets soo much pain from it but he does nothing to change that , which means that he feels no actual pain. Pain would make him grow, and not grow in season 2, but grow in episode 1 of season 1. That is the lvl of pain he suffers but no change actually happens to him despite the fact that taking into consideration his circumstances, change should be allmost instant after a couple deaths. 2. Yes it is the plot that makes them act, stop liying. 3. Why do re:zero fans belive that people hate the show because they dont get it? Do you people cannot fathom other reasons? As a matter of fact this whole forum is about why they dislike it and few actually said anything even close to "i don't understand the plot", yet people like u keep going with that shit. 4. I have dropped this at season 2 ep 4, because it was just too much cringy bullshit in it. I agree with most of what you are saying. I have yet to have a pleasant discussion with any of this show's die-hard fans and simply stating objective flaws with the show leads to people harrassing me over my statements. If I had to guess, those people probably knew deep down that my and other similar critique is real and they just feel threatened by the fact that their favorite waifu show might not be perfect as they'd like. PandoraAlter said: I do feel like whenever threads like this are made they just attract the attention of haters of a series even if the original poster didn't intend do so. On the other hand it can also be a great place for a good debate among people with a lot of different opinions. Considering it has been impossible to have a conversation about this show in its titular threads without people jumping at you aggressively with ad hominem even when you have valid criticism, I'd say this thread is a healthy place to talk about this show. Healthier than when the thread is started by one of its fanbois, at the very least. I can't speak for other titles/franchises, of course. This is just what I observed for this particular title across reddit, Mal, discord, etc. |
BalsaminaFeb 23, 2021 3:19 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
Saber_Evergarden said: Season 2 is especially entertaining sometimes, part 2 is way better than part 1. The show is a decent watch after all, but I "love" the fanbase so much that I threw 1s at the series It's pretty good, above average, just not my favorite. 6/10! And then I get massacred because I'm supposed to give it a 10/10. Buddy don't make me go for that 1/10, it's real tempting bro the ONE thing we really need, they don't give us. smh |
  NYANPASU  5700XT |
BetaMaleUltra said: And then I get massacred because I'm supposed to give it a 10/10. Buddy don't make me go for that 1/10, it's real tempting bro Haha, I can relate to this so well. With those people, it's join our cult or else. |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
BetaMaleUltra said: Saber_Evergarden said: Season 2 is especially entertaining sometimes, part 2 is way better than part 1. The show is a decent watch after all, but I "love" the fanbase so much that I threw 1s at the series It's pretty good, above average, just not my favorite. 6/10! And then I get massacred because I'm supposed to give it a 10/10. Buddy don't make me go for that 1/10, it's real tempting bro the ONE thing we really need, they don't give us. smh well guess what, I used to give s1 an 8 while a 6 for s2 p1&p2, but those re:tard fans kept on spamming that I should give 10s, not anything below that. I got lazy so I ended up giving all 1s, now that is thousand times more effective than arguing with them |
  [Violet X Amy] [VioletteloiV X squished_lemon] |
| Not a huge fan of Subaru, mostly because of the way he interacts with Emelia. Feels like he views her more like an object of affection rather than an actual human. I believe the author intends for the relationship to be immature like that, but its just uncomfortable to watch. The worldbuilding feels weirdly shallow. Political issues are brought up only to be immediately dropped when they're no longer immediately relevant to Subaru's story. The world would feel fuller if time was taken away from Subaru and given to other characters to see how non-isekaid individuals feel about the world. Lastly, from the few eps I saw of season two, theres wayyyyyyy to much exposition. I felt my eyes glazing over as characters endlessly explained things. My shonenite brain couldn't help kicking in and begging for just a basic fight scene to break up the monotonous exposition. |
| Bruh theres one of these threads every week like "people who don't like *insert generic anime*, why?" |
| Well for me I barely got through the first season. I feel like it didn't have a plot so I just dropped it in s2. :\ |
on 
| It's not that I didn't like re: zero but I feel that re: zero failed to keep itself interesting at one point due to the repetitive deaths. That is of course debatable, but everyone has a different experience with a show and that is my thoughts/experience. |
toastyloafers said: Not a huge fan of Subaru, mostly because of the way he interacts with Emelia. Feels like he views her more like an object of affection rather than an actual human. I believe the author intends for the relationship to be immature like that, but its just uncomfortable to watch. The worldbuilding feels weirdly shallow. Political issues are brought up only to be immediately dropped when they're no longer immediately relevant to Subaru's story. The world would feel fuller if time was taken away from Subaru and given to other characters to see how non-isekaid individuals feel about the world. Lastly, from the few eps I saw of season two, theres wayyyyyyy to much exposition. I felt my eyes glazing over as characters endlessly explained things. My shonenite brain couldn't help kicking in and begging for just a basic fight scene to break up the monotonous exposition. damn I almost forgot about the political side of this anime. |
opal_shimmer said: honestly most the cast is kind of disinteresting. it relied mostly on shock value on a lot of parts and didn't take time to develop characters that much and a lot of characters do 180s form hating Subaru's guts to liking him which can be jarring.I personally feel it didn't live up to the hype, and I want to hear other people's opinions. not to mention season 1 left a lot of unsatisfactory plot points. the reason i like higurashi's ground hog day type story is before the final arc they take time to explain each other question arc's mysteries. while there were still questions left in higurashi season 1 most the major questions i had were answered satisfactorily within the season not leaving me frustrated with the show. also the final arc of the first seasons ending felt rushed. i will say that i don't hate Re;Zero, but it's defiantly not high on my list of Isekai's i enjoy. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
_omen said: damn I almost forgot about the political side of this anime. Who in their right mind can blame you? If someone asked me for recommendations on a political anime, I would name Gundam titles, Code Geass or LotGH. Not this show. xD The little "politics" shown in the anime involved 4 candidates where the only one with anything worth agreeing with is the main waifu. You can't be sane to suggest the other 3 had something worth supporting and thus a valid conflict/subplot. A real political setting shows relatable political positions that various characters advocate. In LotGH, the other side is the democracy, the MC's side is a dictatorship. Both side's have politicians with realistic, believable motives and standpoints and why they support what they support, either from circumstances they suffered in their world or because of the MC's personal treatment of them leading them to believe he'd be a great man to lead a country. In Code Geass where politics is one game being played with out of many, the audience can feel a real dilemma for Lelouch's political agenda when Euphie did what she did in the latter half of S1. Gundam Seed's political points regarding bio-enhancements are also pretty heartfelt. As too are the political maneuvers pulled in Gundam 00 in both seasons (less felt in the movie, admittedly, but by then the show's universe is kinda past the point of inter-human politics). |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
S5-Astraea said: _omen said: damn I almost forgot about the political side of this anime. Who in their right mind can blame you? If someone asked me for recommendations on a political anime, I would name Gundam titles, Code Geass or LotGH. Not this show. xD The little "politics" shown in the anime involved 4 candidates where the only one with anything worth agreeing with is the main waifu. You can't be sane to suggest the other 3 had something worth supporting and thus a valid conflict/subplot. A real political setting shows relatable political positions that various characters advocate. In LotGH, the other side is the democracy, the MC's side is a dictatorship. Both side's have politicians with realistic, believable motives and standpoints and why they support what they support, either from circumstances they suffered in their world or because of the MC's personal treatment of them leading them to believe he'd be a great man to lead a country. In Code Geass where politics is one game being played with out of many, the audience can feel a real dilemma for Lelouch's political agenda when Euphie did what she did in the latter half of S1. Gundam Seed's political points regarding bio-enhancements are also pretty heartfelt. As too are the political maneuvers pulled in Gundam 00 in both seasons (less felt in the movie, admittedly, but by then the show's universe is kinda past the point of inter-human politics). Why would you even consider recommending Re:Zero for people looking for political shows when politics is not even the main point of Re:Zero in the first place? |
GilgameshuuFeb 23, 2021 7:48 PM
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Gilgameshuu said: Why would you even consider recommending Re:Zero for people looking for political shows when politics is not even the main point of Re:Zero in the first place? Oh? A Re:Zero fan I was speaking with several months ago was praising its political aspects to no end, you see. |
BalsaminaFeb 23, 2021 9:44 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
SinOfSlothKing said: I did have pleasent arguments over this show. "https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1836161" I dont quite remember if it lead to any minds changing about the show, but it was pretty civil. If I have to guess your opinion didn't change a bit probably got worse this season. |
SinOfSlothKing said: Sark_Morgan said: If I have to guess your opinion didn't change a bit probably got worse this season. Ow no, it changed. I downright hate it now, and i dropped it at episode 4 season 2. Bruh you missed the best worse episode of all time... I feel I've turned into Subaru I keep watching but I'm in pain, but I keep doing it and I don't know why... Also you are not the only one who has disliked after a second view, I'll keep a 9 in my book and wont re-watch, I'll keep my rose tinted glasses for the first season and "judge" the other seasons accordingly. What really piss me of about this show beside the fandom, is that if any show try to use the return by death plot device it will be tainted as a Re:Zero wannabe, while I truly believe it could've be better and already have been done in the past... Meanwhile I can see all the ingredient of being a great show, it looks like the chef got the recipe mixed and instead of baking a cake he did a pie and it stayed too long in the oven, sometimes you can taste the greatness just to be remember the bitter sweet taste of the burnt crust. Man I really wanted to like the cake, but the cake was a lie. |
Sark_Morgan said: I'll keep a 9 in my book and wont re-watch I was the opposite lol. I believe a true masterpiece will stop you in your tracks every time you rewatch it and your opinion of it will not change. Re:Zero was far from one in just this sense alone. As such, I refuse to see a rose-tinted vision. I'd rather see the truth for what it is. Life turns out better this way for me; I end up finding what I want in life. SinOfSlothKing said: I did have pleasent arguments over this show. "https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1836161" I dont quite remember if it lead to any minds changing about the show, but it was pretty civil. Haha, you had better fortune with this show's fanbase then. I was on a gaming discord server trying to say that I "do not believe Re:Zero is a masterpiece" on its general anime channel. A shitstorm of ad hominem ensued from this one statement, mostly from the server's admin who was a huge RZ fanboi, believes this show to be perfect without a single flaw, and has a posse of fellow waifu-worshipper boys he indulges this opinion with. In the end, he gave me an "official warning" to not voice critique of RZ again and I lost all respect for the guy and just left his discord. And on mal, I've received harassing comments on my profile (now deleted, I don't need to see this shit when I look at my own page) for critiquing the show in my reviews. |
BalsaminaFeb 24, 2021 6:00 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| I got bored of the exposition dumbs. Not that I was ever truly engaged further than that and so my criticism doesn't either, given my enjoyment of the show only ever reached middling levels. I wasn't engaged beyond the superficial so that it swan-dived into boredom territory just had me slash it from my "to-do" list this season and replace it with Wonder Egg Priority which I'd heard good things about since the seasonal start.If anyone replies to this with "WASN'T THERE ENOUGH ACTION FOR YOUR PLEBIAN TASTE!?", I'm going to rip your head off. |
TylaenFeb 24, 2021 6:16 PM
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Redo-Master said: I think you completely missed my point, or you're just so indulgent in your fanboyism that you've spoonfed yourself everything the author wants you to think. One would think that if RbD causes suffering, one would try to minimize RbD and maximize gains from each iteration. Instead, Subaru does as you say, maximize RbD and minimize gains from each iteration. Early on in S2P1, Roswaal tells Subaru important clues about Beatrice that he promptly ignores for the rest of the season just so he could go into self-righteous outbursts whenever he sees Roswaal until the end of the season. When he first meets the witch and gets offered free information on a silver platter, he turns it down. The show depicts 5-6 deaths, but it implies that he has done this over and over again. Even in the first season, even though it only shows a number of RbD, Subaru claims that he's done it dozens or even hundreds of times. The fact that you're not paying attention to these things tell me you're not actually taking in the narrative, but just accepting the surface level of whatever that you see. In one scene, Subaru convinces Beatrice not to kill, just so Beatrice could predictably get killed and so he could pretend to feel sorry for himself. And considering he supposedly has had hundreds of RbD by that point, his lack of experience is staggering. It's almost like the author wants us to perceive that he's had countless RbD, but then forgets it himself.katsucats said: I couldn't help but feel like Subaru isn't really suffering throughout the show, that it's just him pretending to be a drama queen. Put it this way: If each death is an unimaginable pain, then after 3-4 of them, a person would think to maximize his gains from each iteration. That means to gather as much information as possible and figure out ways to solve the mystery. But after hundreds of deaths, Subaru still goes about things in the dumbest ways possible, still gets a boner after Emilia -- it's just... unbelievable. It's almost as if he has a death fetish. Wow...I think you missed the whole point of S2P1. What you said about the whole 'a person would would think to maximize' stuff is EXACTLY what Subaru is doing. He IS SELF-ABUSING Return By Death because he devalues his own life and think it's worthless. He used RBD to gain info and figure out a way to deal with Sanctuary and the mansion's problems. He thinks if he can save everyone at the end then it doesn't matter what happens to him. And don't do this 'after 100 deaths' bs. He only died like 5 or 6 times in S2P1 and use the proper amount of time he had to figure out things. He was pushed to the point were everything seem impossible to him. Roswaal's plan made RBD useless, which means no matter how many times he die, Subaru on his own can't do anything now. Don't overexaggerate things which doesn't make sense. The whole S2P1 was his character development and you missed the whole point. What you've missed is that Re:Zero has no character development -- NONE. Subaru claimed he was going to rely on his friends more after that Rem intervention in season 1. It took most of S2P1 for him to Re:remember it, after being unrealistically hounded by several characters to remember their friendship, like the typical nakama power formula. Subaru promised he was going to cool down and consider all the facts, but he does none of that for the entire 12 episodes, until the side characters practically got bored and had to deliver him exposition for no reason -- like explaining to a kid who just can't get a math problem. In other words, every development that the author promised at the finale of season 1 was promptly erased. What development was there even? A flashback to Subaru's past where he acts like he's grown up, and then reverts back to a whiny crybaby almost immediately afterwards? What has he done even that's different than what he did in season 1? You're exactly like every other Re:Zero fanboy that has ever tried to call me out and has no idea what he's talking about. If you're calling this development, then Shoyo Hinata must be getting a different PhD every episode. Also, this: toastyloafers said: Not a huge fan of Subaru, mostly because of the way he interacts with Emelia. Feels like he views her more like an object of affection rather than an actual human. I believe the author intends for the relationship to be immature like that, but its just uncomfortable to watch. I feel like people who buy the premise of Re:Zero have unrealistic expectations of what real relationships are like, and what real growth is like -- you know, the kind that involves rationalizing and critical thinking and gathering clues and consulting with allies and not just acting like a self-important moralizing ass and scoring cheap emotional victories just so he could die another oh-so-painful death. The fact that Emilia is supposed to be the candidate to King but acts like a vulnerable little doll in front of Subaru, who has done nothing to deserve either Rem or Emilia, is the biggest primary insult. Subaru doesn't respect Emilia. He doesn't value her opinions, her values, he doesn't talk to her to get to know more about her. She's just his shiny object for him to play the knight in shining armor so he could feel good about himself. |
katsucatsFeb 25, 2021 12:34 AM
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Just when this thread was about to be buried it just had to get brought up again... |
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katsucats said: I think you completely missed my point, or you're just so indulgent in your fanboyism that you've spoonfed yourself everything the author wants you to think. One would think that if RbD causes suffering, one would try to minimize RbD and maximize gains from each iteration. Instead, Subaru does as you say, maximize RbD and minimize gains from each iteration. Early on in S2P1, Roswaal tells Subaru important clues about Beatrice that he promptly ignores for the rest of the season just so he could go into self-righteous outbursts whenever he sees Roswaal until the end of the season. When he first meets the witch and gets offered free information on a silver platter, he turns it down. The show depicts 5-6 deaths, but it implies that he has done this over and over again. Even in the first season, even though it only shows a number of RbD, Subaru claims that he's done it dozens or even hundreds of times. The fact that you're not paying attention to these things tell me you're not actually taking in the narrative, but just accepting the surface level of whatever that you see. In one scene, Subaru convinces Beatrice not to kill, just so Beatrice could predictably get killed and so he could pretend to feel sorry for himself. And considering he supposedly has had hundreds of RbD by that point, his lack of experience is staggering. It's almost like the author wants us to perceive that he's had countless RbD, but then forgets it himself. What you've missed is that Re:Zero has no character development -- NONE. Subaru claimed he was going to rely on his friends more after that Rem intervention in season 1. It took most of S2P1 for him to Re:remember it, after being unrealistically hounded by several characters to remember their friendship, like the typical nakama power formula. Subaru promised he was going to cool down and consider all the facts, but he does none of that for the entire 12 episodes, until the side characters practically got bored and had to deliver him exposition for no reason -- like explaining to a kid who just can't get a math problem. In other words, every development that the author promised at the finale of season 1 was promptly erased. What development was there even? A flashback to Subaru's past where he acts like he's grown up, and then reverts back to a whiny crybaby almost immediately afterwards? What has he done even that's different than what he did in season 1? You're exactly like every other Re:Zero fanboy that has ever tried to call me out and has no idea what he's talking about. If you're calling this development, then Shoyo Hinata must be getting a different PhD every episode. I agree very strongly with the points you are making. I have been noticing for a while that a lot of the things that go on in the RZ plot are mainly just there to try to evoke an emotional reaction from the audience rather than doing so with actual substance. Many of the characters do not indicate through their actions that they are acting in their best interest, but rather seem to just do whatever the writer thinks will evoke the most emotion from the audience. Subaru's mindset effectively being repetition of stupidity incarnate throughout the show pretty much proves it. In a remotely believable cast of characters, there is generally a distribution of intellect amongst the cast. Moreover, when real people fail the first one or two times, they learn that what they are doing is not working. Yet, his attitude towards his deaths and what he gets between each one never really changes. From the first episodes, instead of following Emilia around after resurrecting once, a realistic and sane mind would stay far away from her, at most simply giving a warning of the events to come. Instead, he follows her around like a puppy each time despite having pretty much just met her. This lack of learning is extended to pretty much everyone else in the cast as well and prevails at least into the flashbacks of Emilia's past in the latest season. Rem literally falling in love within minutes after previously trying to brutally murder him is another instance of truly poor attempt at character writing. It is not impossible for a character to change their attitude towards another in a complete 180. However, this should take a long amount of time. In Fate/Extra CCC, for example, Gilgamesh in his character route starts off forcing the protagonist to use up all three of her command seals to force him to allow herself to "look upon him", "question him", and " speak to him". While indeed Gilgamesh by the end has changed so far as to sacrifice 90% of his treasury just to cross from the Far Side of the Moon to the Near side just to reunite with the protagonist, this change took the entirety of the CCC story. In Rem's case, she literally changed after a single action by Subaru. Normally, his one action should have evoked only a change from hostility to curiosity, or at best neutrality. katsucats said: I feel like people who buy the premise of Re:Zero have unrealistic expectations of what real relationships are like, and what real growth is like -- you know, the kind that involves rationalizing and critical thinking and gathering clues and consulting with allies and not just acting like a self-important moralizing ass and scoring cheap emotional victories just so he could die another oh-so-painful death. The fact that Emilia is supposed to be the candidate to King but acts like a vulnerable little doll in front of Subaru, who has done nothing to deserve either Rem or Emilia, is the biggest primary insult. Subaru doesn't respect Emilia. He doesn't value her opinions, her values, he doesn't talk to her to get to know more about her. She's just his shiny object for him to play the knight in shining armor so he could feel good about himself. While I do not believe it is wise or appropriate to generalize the entirety of the group that does like this show, I will admit the individuals whom I have sparred verbally with over this show via discord do fit your description. As for Emilia, I feel the show fails to even explain what her qualifications for the throne even is, or show why she should have motivations to seek it. In better written shows like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Code Geass, and even freaking Gundam Seed, the people who seek positions of political power are very well protrayed. Reinhard seeks to become someone important enough to free his sister from being the Emperor's concubine (sex slave). Lelouch wants to rebuild the world to be kinder to his sister (probably drew inspirations from LOTGH), and freakin Lacus Clyne wants peace between the Earth and PLANT. The former two are tactical geniuses and the latter is a designer baby with heightened intellect by birth and was raised by a politician father so pretty much have been involved in politics all her life. Meanwhile, in Emilia's case... We don't really get anything and somehow Subaru never asked in depth, if at all. |
BalsaminaFeb 25, 2021 9:42 PM
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| @katsucats I think you are trying to ignore the author's vision by superimposing your own perspective over the plot structure first and looking at the emotional interactions as a cheap plot armour so that Subaru acts dumb and the plot doesn't move. You don't want to see the story from the protagonist's perspective but you want to see it from your own perspective, and if they are colliding with each other,you think it's badly written. Idk why you thought that I'm trying to call you out, but I didn't mean to take that this way. I just said that 'the countless RBD can be used to gain as much info in small time' argument is bs because it's simply an overexxaggration but you infact attacked me by calling me a fanboy. I didn't call you a hater or elitist or you are too dumb to understand or anything like that. Here's why I think it's a overexxaggration, you are confusing yourself with the fact that 'the story implies that HE HAS DIED multiple times OFFSCREEN' and 'the show implies that Subaru has the resolve to die multiple times to save everyone'. There's a difference in doing so and implying so. I honestly don't remember Subaru CLAIMING that he infact has died multiple times offscreen back in season 1 so you can help me by stating which episode he CLAIMED any of this. All of your opinion is based on this which is just wrong. The only time I can see him doing such is when Rem was in coma in episode 26 in S2, he told that he'll die as many times as it takes, but again says it seems like no matter how many times he tried he can't undo this cause his savepoint has changed, suggesting that he understood in his 2nd try only by thinking rationally and not just killing him aimlessly. But even if he did this, it still doesn't change anything because in S2, every single loop directly ties into the previous one and we won't have understand anything if a loop happened offscreen. He only rewinds 6 times in S2P1. As for what you say Subaru not gaining maximum info, this is simply incorrect. He does think rationally in every loop, he concludes something and the next loop he does consider the previous info to guide him. Every loop follows a similar pattern unless a new variable is created and the loop deflects. He meets up with Roswaal to clear his doubts. RBD is basically useless in S2 because of Roswaal's plan, so no matter how many times he tired he can't save both mansion and Sanctuary. HE DID RELY on his 'allies' like Roswaal and Echidna at first but realized that he was just being used. He won't risk his friends life and denies their help. Roswaal told Subaru about talking with Beatrice in episode 30, but if you try to put yourself in Subaru's shoes, do you honestly think that after seeing his friends die he'll jump infront of Beatrice and yell the he's 'that person'? No he won't. Even if he did told her about this, then the events in episode 36 will be triggered and he'll have to kill Beatrice which he doesn't want to. At this point on the plot he doesn't know how to deal with Beatrice's suicidal thoughts. You expect him to jump right in the topic when the circumstances are clearly not in favour of him, and then you'll call it bad writing because you see those circumstances as 'forced writing'. Idk why you think Subaru convinces Beatrice not to kill Meili so that Beatrice could get killed and he could pretend to feel sorry for himself because it was never implied in or after that scene so idk. Subaru's mom in episode 29 says that a journey's start or its progress doesn't matter if he'll be satisfied in the ending and can smile without regretting. But he did mistook it Subaru in S2P1 thinks that his own life is worthless since he was unable to save Rem, he can't save anyone in the mansion or in the sanctuary, so he relies on self-abuse with RBD fuled by Echidna's manipulation thinking that if there's a future where everyone is safe, then no matter what happens to him, he'll do anything. Subaru does make poor choices sometimes like with his first encounter with the Witch, but given that she's a witch, I can see him not trusting her. He has always been a flawed character, nothing at this point in the story he has done suggests that he's very smart, so I can see why you might not like him. |
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