| So far both F/SN anime have been rather lackluster and boring to me. Shirou has been a stubborn, naive and annoying protagonist, the romance with Saber was cringeworthy and degraded her character, Rin is the cliche tsundere, the villians (F/SN Kirei and Gil lack any charm, Caster and her master are so bland) were shit etc. Not to mention the lighthearted tone which just felt off in a war. There was never any tension and everything felt way too safe. So overall I have been disappointed with F/SN. I was wondering how this route is different and how highly regarded it is |
Aardwolf94Nov 2, 2017 1:17 PM
| So just write it straight that you want to rant it and rant anyone who will respond to you. Also you didn't read the VN so your opinion is well... |
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Wasshio said: I haven't read the VN but for this I only have read your comments, most of them were rather... aggressive. Now i dont know if you mean me or OP whos constantly in every fate related thread and try too hard to be interesting. |
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Swagernator said: So just write it straight that you want to rant it and rant anyone who will respond to you. Also you didn't read the VN so your opinion is well... This is an anime/manga forum, not VN...and the anime needs to stand on its own. Anyway no I didnt want to rant at all here and instead wanted to hear how highly regarded this route is and what makes it different. I just figured that I should say what I disliked about the previous routes first. |
Aardwolf94 said: Anyway no I didnt want to rant at all here and instead wanted to hear how highly regarded this route is and what makes it different. I just figured that I should say what I disliked about the previous routes first. Why ? in the end you will just say that Fate/Zero is best because you personally like it, and the whole discussion is pointless. |
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Swagernator said: Wasshio said: I haven't read the VN but for this I only have read your comments, most of them were rather... aggressive. Now i dont know if you mean me or OP whos constantly in every fate related thread and try too hard to be interesting. For the most part I have only been in F/Z related threads, what are you talking about? You are the one getting upset just because I bashed F/SN. Get over it and answer the question, or just go. |
Swagernator said: Aardwolf94 said: Anyway no I didnt want to rant at all here and instead wanted to hear how highly regarded this route is and what makes it different. I just figured that I should say what I disliked about the previous routes first. Why ? in the end you will just say that Fate/Zero is best because you personally like it, and the whole discussion is pointless. Wrong. I can't say that F/Z is better than HF yet because I dont know anything about the latter (apart from Sakura being important) and have never read it. And F/Z isn't important to this discussion, its only about HF. |
Wasshio said: Aardwolf94 said: This is an anime/manga forum, not VN...and the anime needs to stand on its own. Anyway no I didnt want to rant at all here and instead wanted to hear how highly regarded this route is and what makes it different. I just figured that I should say what I disliked about the previous routes first. Well the film isn't out for everyone but for VN readers they can explain the most when it comes to what makes it "good" or "different" than the others. I think the same can be applied over here, just saying. Of course an anime has to stand on its own regard and that I can see it as an argument, but at the same time if the content isn't available for everyone then I think source material readers can give their take on that question. Well thats what I wanted to hear..how highly regarded HF is and what makes it different & of course so far only VN readers can respond to that. The other user just disregarded my opinion because I haven't read the VN, that was my problem. And btw I have only been "agressive" when the user I was discussing things with was as well. |
Aardwolf94Nov 2, 2017 1:30 PM
| I have the same sentiments regarding the main character. I cant say for certain since the movie is not yet subbed and out. This is basically the antithesis of the other routes. I find it good because of the mc's demise. That's all I can say. Ive only watched the vn in youtube so I wont give any detailed opinion here. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
| Fate/stay night adaptations are garbage, and this route is getting less runtime than UBW so lol VN fans will enjoy it because the animation and fights look amazing, while anime-only fans will sit there thinking Shirou is a generic shounen protagonist, be confused as to what the fuck is happening, and comparing it to Zero, same as ever. That said, Gilgamesh has big role in this route, I think you'll enjoy him quite a bit here. |
| You spent too much time to realize that , you should've have realized such thing from the start OP. My opinion won't change , the fate series lost its glory when FSN came out. |
S-quare22Nov 3, 2017 10:53 AM
  "elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches"  |
| fate sn is jus dumb porno gaem lol hf has nothing but werms and cooking S-quare22 said: how can it lose its glory the day it came outYou spent too much time to realize that , you should've have realized such thing from the start OP. My opinion won't change , the fate series lost its glory when FSN came out. where would the glory have come from |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Aure0lin said: S-quare22 said: how can it lose its glory the day it came outYou spent too much time to realize that , you should've have realized such thing from the start OP. My opinion won't change , the fate series lost its glory when FSN came out. where would the glory have come from Asking the real questions. |
Aure0lin said: fate sn is jus dumb porno gaem lol hf has nothing but werms and cooking S-quare22 said: how can it lose its glory the day it came outYou spent too much time to realize that , you should've have realized such thing from the start OP. My opinion won't change , the fate series lost its glory when FSN came out. where would the glory have come from The fate series that I was talking about consist of two parts , fate zero and fate stay night .. fate zero is pretty good but FSN is crap and that's my opinion. PS: the three of us have shiki in the favorites , lol. |
"elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches" |
| This route is much darker, for one. |
Tenkensmile said: This route is much darker, for one. ^ Yep You want edge, OP? This is the route for you. Heaven's Feel Shirou is the opposite of Fate Shirou. Everything goes to shit. etc. |
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VarunaBles said: Tenkensmile said: This route is much darker, for one. ^ Yep You want edge, OP? This is the route for you. Heaven's Feel Shirou is the opposite of Fate Shirou. Everything goes to shit. etc. Sounds good, one of my problems with the other two anime was the lack of tension and dark atmosphere. I never thought Shirou & co. were in real danger |
| I've read the original VN. So far, the only anime adaptation of it that I've watched was UBW by Ufotable. I would just like to say that it didn't do the original route justice. That aside, Heaven's Feel is my favorite of the 3 routes (kinda ironic considering my avatar but whatever). It differs greatly from the other two in several ways. It's Sakura's route, so we obviously get more focus on her character. Illya also plays a bigger role in this route. Alongside that, we get new characters and plot points which weren't present in previous routes. Also, if you found Shirou annoying before, he turns out differently in Heaven's Feel. Basically, he gives up on his ideals and instead focuses on saving only those he loves. So, yeah. It's a great route, but I'm not entirely sure how the movie will turn out. I've heard some good stuff about it thus far, but I still remain skeptical. |
Aardwolf94 said: Sounds good, one of my problems with the other two anime was the lack of tension and dark atmosphere. I never thought Shirou & co. were in real danger That's funny because from a certain point of view, Shirou and co. are the real danger of this route. |
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| In terms of adaptation, this will possibly be one of the top nonsense you will so adore. |
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| Man if you dislike everything about Fate you've seen so far you might as well not watch it at all. Unless you're into that real dark & edgy stuff in which case you might even enjoy HF. |
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| >Shirou has been a stubborn, naive and annoying protagonist, Stubborn naive and annoying?Like Kiritsugu? >the romance with Saber was cringeworthy and degraded her character How can something that came first degrade a character? BOI Typical reaction of secondary that thinks he undertstood what Fate/Zero was about and tries to find the same in FSN.Then fails because what he thought FZ was about isnt in FSN so all that comes out is hate for the characters and story that have more similarities with FZ than he would like. |
ssjokgNov 4, 2017 7:03 AM
ssjokg said: >Shirou has been a stubborn, naive and annoying protagonist, Stubborn naive and annoying?Like Kiritsugu? >the romance with Saber was cringeworthy and degraded her character How can something that came first degrade a character? BOI Typical reaction of secondary that thinks he undertstood what Fate/Zero was about and tries to find the same in FSN.Then fails because what he thought FZ was about isnt in FSN so all that comes out is hate for the characters and story that have more similarities with FZ than he would like. Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. I love anti heroes and we dont have enough of them in anime so Kiritsugu was a welcome change and very compelling. He was stubborn and naive (thinking the grail would be the answer to all the problems) but in different more interesting ways, his story was tragic and very well done. Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone character who gets stupid power ups & waifu's that I have seen way too many times. And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. It did for me. That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell. Feels like the creator was living out his own fantasy here. Typical reaction from a defensive VN fan... I understood what F/Z was about (I love it but its not that complex) and it was just vastly superior to both F/SN anime in every way (MC, side characters, story, atmosphere). There is a good reason why its seen as the best Fate anime. Anyway F/Z wasn't even the topic here but here we are again I guess |
Aardwolf94Nov 4, 2017 9:10 AM
Aardwolf94 said: Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. I love anti heroes and we dont have enough of them in anime so Kiritsugu was a welcome change and very compelling. He was stubborn and naive (thinking the grail would be the answer to all the problems) but in different more interesting ways, his story was tragic and very well done. Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone character who gets stupid power ups & waifu's that I have seen way too many times. And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. It did for me. That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell. Feels like the creator was living out his own fantasy here. Typical reaction from a defensive VN fan... I understood what F/Z was about (I love it but its not that complex) and it was just vastly superior to both F/SN anime in every way (MC, side characters, story, atmosphere). There is a good reason why its seen as the best Fate anime. Anyway F/Z wasn't even the topic here but here we are again I guess >Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. A broken human with no self vs a man that acts like a child that cant accept reality.Hmmm >his story was tragic and very well done So is Shirou's. But I guess losing your house, sense of self, parents, 2nd father, selling your afterlife to save people, fail even harder than you failure of a father isnt as tragic. Kiritsugu on the other hand doesnt have mental problems that make it impossible to HAVE a family and be done with that shit. Yet he is stupid enough to throw all that away for a questionable wish maker that NOBODY could use yet. >Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone And so is Kiritsugu? Like wth you think he ended up with nothing? >stupid power ups Being better in your power=/=power up. Also Kiritsugu has survived shit because of plot armor more times than Shirou so.....meh >& waifu's that I have seen way too many times. Unlike Shirou who has ONE girlfriend, Kiritsugu has a wife, a mistress and later on Taiga being in love with him. Shirou has 2 at most in UBW and HF.But meh... >And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. Kiritsugu would have died in ep 5 if it wasnt for plot armor but who cares about adults right?Iri a few eps later as well.Wait she is actually 10 years old so this should count as plot armor. >That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. The "stupid naive hs boy who doesn't know shit about the world " has the same ideals as her and says to her the same shit Alexander did. EXCEPT he isnt a dick and doesnt ridicule her for he choices, respects her choices UNLIKE her previous Master, loves her and KNOWS how awful the world is, in case you missed how he lost his whole life because of a magical war.He knows what a shit hole the magi world is from Kiritsugu and knows what it is like to live ONLY for others. But you wouldnt know that would you. >She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell God forbid a woman finally stops acting like a cold machine. Also you not liking those=/= ruining her character >I understood what F/Z was about No you didnt.Then you would know why Saber was changed by Shirou and not people that look down on her. You would understand why being like Kiritsugu is NOT GOOD. You would know that if a man that actually can live without this ideal doesnt do it then a boy that only has that wont be able to stop either. |
ssjokgNov 5, 2017 8:18 AM
ssjokg said: Well said. Aardwolf94 said: Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. I love anti heroes and we dont have enough of them in anime so Kiritsugu was a welcome change and very compelling. He was stubborn and naive (thinking the grail would be the answer to all the problems) but in different more interesting ways, his story was tragic and very well done. Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone character who gets stupid power ups & waifu's that I have seen way too many times. And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. It did for me. That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell. Feels like the creator was living out his own fantasy here. Typical reaction from a defensive VN fan... I understood what F/Z was about (I love it but its not that complex) and it was just vastly superior to both F/SN anime in every way (MC, side characters, story, atmosphere). There is a good reason why its seen as the best Fate anime. Anyway F/Z wasn't even the topic here but here we are again I guess >Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. A broken human with no self vs a man that acts like a child that cant accept reality.Hmmm >his story was tragic and very well done So is Shirou's. But I guess losing your house, sense of self, parents, 2nd father, selling your afterlife to save people, fail even harder than you failure of a father isnt as tragic. Kiritsugu on the other hand doesnt have mental problems that make it impossible to HAVE a family and be done with that shit. Yet he is stupid enough to throw all that away for a questionable wish maker that NOBODY could use yet. >Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone And so is Kiritsugu? Like wth you think he ended up with nothing? >stupid power ups Being better in your power=/=power up. Also Kiritsugu has survived shit because of plot armor more times than Shirou so.....meh >& waifu's that I have seen way too many times. Unlike Shirou who has ONE girlfriend, Kiritsugu has a wife, a mistress and later on Taiga being in love with him. Shirou has 2 at most in UBW and HF.But meh... >And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. Kiritsugu would have died in ep 5 if it wasnt for plot armor but who cares about adults right?Iri a few eps later as well.Wait she is actually 10 years old so this should count as plot armor. >That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. The "stupid naive hs boy who doesn't know shit about the world " has the same ideals as her and says to her the same shit Alexander did. EXCEPT he isnt a dick and doesnt ridicule her for he choices, respects her choices UNLIKE her previous Master, loves her and KNOWS how awful the world is, in case you missed how he lost his whole life because of a magical war.He knows what a shit hole the magi world is from Kiritsugu and knows what it is like to live ONLY for others. But you wouldnt know that would you. >She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell God forbid a woman finally stops acting like a cold machine. Also you not liking those=/= ruining her character >I understood what F/Z was about No you didnt.Then you would know why Saber was changed by Shirou and no people that look down on her. You would understand why being like Kiritsugu is NOT GOOD. You would know that if a man that actually can live without this ideal doesnt do it and boy that only has that wont be able to stop either. I love F/Z more than F/SN but I love them both. |
ssjokg said: Aardwolf94 said: Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. I love anti heroes and we dont have enough of them in anime so Kiritsugu was a welcome change and very compelling. He was stubborn and naive (thinking the grail would be the answer to all the problems) but in different more interesting ways, his story was tragic and very well done. Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone character who gets stupid power ups & waifu's that I have seen way too many times. And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. It did for me. That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell. Feels like the creator was living out his own fantasy here. Typical reaction from a defensive VN fan... I understood what F/Z was about (I love it but its not that complex) and it was just vastly superior to both F/SN anime in every way (MC, side characters, story, atmosphere). There is a good reason why its seen as the best Fate anime. Anyway F/Z wasn't even the topic here but here we are again I guess >Yeah but unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu's style was actually interesting. A broken human with no self vs a man that acts like a child that cant accept reality.Hmmm >his story was tragic and very well done So is Shirou's. But I guess losing your house, sense of self, parents, 2nd father, selling your afterlife to save people, fail even harder than you failure of a father isnt as tragic. Kiritsugu on the other hand doesnt have mental problems that make it impossible to HAVE a family and be done with that shit. Yet he is stupid enough to throw all that away for a questionable wish maker that NOBODY could use yet. >Shirou is the same old always 100% nice and wanting to save everyone And so is Kiritsugu? Like wth you think he ended up with nothing? >stupid power ups Being better in your power=/=power up. Also Kiritsugu has survived shit because of plot armor more times than Shirou so.....meh >& waifu's that I have seen way too many times. Unlike Shirou who has ONE girlfriend, Kiritsugu has a wife, a mistress and later on Taiga being in love with him. Shirou has 2 at most in UBW and HF.But meh... >And he was so damm stupid and reckless in both anime, dude should have died for that but his plot armor was ridiculous. Kiritsugu would have died in ep 5 if it wasnt for plot armor but who cares about adults right?Iri a few eps later as well.Wait she is actually 10 years old so this should count as plot armor. >That only a stupid naive highschool boy who doesn't know shit about the world could "teach" her and have her develop as a character is awful. The "stupid naive hs boy who doesn't know shit about the world " has the same ideals as her and says to her the same shit Alexander did. EXCEPT he isnt a dick and doesnt ridicule her for he choices, respects her choices UNLIKE her previous Master, loves her and KNOWS how awful the world is, in case you missed how he lost his whole life because of a magical war.He knows what a shit hole the magi world is from Kiritsugu and knows what it is like to live ONLY for others. But you wouldnt know that would you. >She was reduced to a typical blushing & cheap love interest, their scenes (bath scene, hug one etc.) were cringeworthy as hell God forbid a woman finally stops acting like a cold machine. Also you not liking those=/= ruining her character >I understood what F/Z was about No you didnt.Then you would know why Saber was changed by Shirou and no people that look down on her. You would understand why being like Kiritsugu is NOT GOOD. You would know that if a man that actually can live without this ideal doesnt do it and boy that only has that wont be able to stop either. Wat? I'm talking about how they behave and their personalities. Kiritsugu became an interesting anti hero after the tragic things that happened to him, he killed the minority (even if it was his loved one's) to save the majority. He was ruthless. Of course he is silly to believe in the grail but that only makes his story more compelling. He is a flawed human character. Shirou on the other hand acts like your generic stupid Shounen protagonist, always wanting to save everyone and being a nice dude. His backstory isn't nearly as interesting or tragic as Kiritsugu's and he is basically a fake who just borrowed his father's ideals (only the naive part) which is stupid as hell (as Archer says who I dont count to the Shirou we follow). He doesn't really suffer for his stupid ideals and instead in both anime gets cheesy as hell endings. Seems like you misunderstood Kiritsugu's character, its basically impossible for him to have a happy life, at least before he found Shirou. Like Irisviel said he couldn't live with himself if he just ran away with her and Illya. After he killed his father his character became broken and changed. Shirou in comparison is living the easy life yet complains. Also no Kiritsugu didn't want to save everyone, he was smarter than that and knew that was impossible. He always killed the few to save the many. Dude what the hell, did you even watch it? Kiritsugu only survived via avalon once, Shirou did like a dozen times. Then we have the convenient "I'm gonna let you go because" from the villians and the stupid power ups. Look at Shirou's rise in terms of power in UBW, he went from a little shit who got owned by everyone to being able to defeat THE strongest servant. Yeah there are excuses but its overall bullshit. It basically only happened because he was the MC. I don't recall anything like that with Kiritsugu who acted way smarter in the grail war and never went above his established power. What does the fire (as bad as it was) have anything to do with Saber's life or the world in general? Shirou doesn't know shit about war or being a king, unlike Kiritsugu and Iskander. He is a naive stupid boy who never had to make difficult choices, never suffered for his ideals. Not to mention what a sexist shit he was in the first anime.. It degrades Saber's character, that she can only learn and develop via banging & falling in love with this dude. Their romance was cringeworthy all the way through.. Honestly it would be better if she acted like a mother figure,not a typical love interest. Her development in UBW was far stronger, despite being rushed. God forbid not every anime female character is the typical feminine "cute" one..Saber was different and thats what made her interesting. I never said being Kiritsugu is good..he is a broken dude who was a complete failure. I said he was a compelling character, there is a difference between these two things. |
Aardwolf94Nov 5, 2017 8:19 AM
| Oh boi... You just prove that you mix up rule of cool with good writing. You also prove that you dont care what a non adult character does even if it contradicts what you think. Lets start.: >Wat? I'm talking about how they behave and their personalities. Kiritsugu became an interesting anti hero after the tragic things that happened to him, he killed the minority (even if it was his loved one's) to save the majority. He was ruthless. Of course he is silly to believe in the grail but that only makes his story more compelling. He is a flawed human character. Kiritsugu isnt stupid just for believing in te grail.He is stupid for not cooperating with Saber, for not taking into account her character, for not analyzing how she would act in various scenarios. He is stupid because all of his plans worked because of luck like Rider being faster than him in ep5, Kayneth not taking him seriously, Sola being stupid and Lancer being buddies with Saber. Also the tragic things that happened to him are ALL HIS FAULT. He could have stopped at any point yet he kept going because of his regret; not Killing Shirley. >Shirou on the other hand acts like your generic stupid Shounen protagonist, always wanting to save everyone and being a nice dude. His backstory isn't nearly as interesting or tragic as Kiritsugu's and he is basically a fake who just borrowed his father's ideals (only the naive part) which is stupid as hell (as Archer says who I dont count to the Shirou we follow). He doesn't really suffer for his stupid ideals and instead in both anime gets cheesy as hell endings. That's literally who Kiritsugu is.A child that wants to save everyone.His final line in the series is him reply to Shirley when she asked him what he wanted to become.His final thought after all that happened was the desire he had as a child. Shirou also doesnt want to save literally everyone.he is prepared to kill but unlike Kiritsugu he doesnt just go gun ho on everyone as the #1 solution.This isnt a bad character flaw.he is prepare dto kill when he has to.He tries to kill Shinji in fate and wants to go after Medea in UBW(and is stopped by Archer's bullshit). Kiritsugu lost his village and family.lost his foster mother.He didnt lose his sense of self. Shirou lost his hometown and family.Also lost his foster father.He lost his sense of self. Archer disagreeing with Shirou doesnt make Archer right or the ideal bad in any way.Especially when Archer literally goes against what he is saying in the entire show. He doesnt suffer?Um okay, did you miss the part where he HAS to live like this for his whole life in order to have a purpose?Again, Kiritsugu could have stopped and he could find a different way of life.Shirou cant.The ideal isnt wrong but it is extremely unhealthy.He also fails to save people in UBW. Ilya, Kuzuki and from his POV Saber as well. Also the series being edgy and forcing him to suffer isnt good writing. >Seems like you misunderstood Kiritsugu's character, its basically impossible for him to have a happy life, at least before he found Shirou. Like Irisviel said he couldn't live with himself if he just ran away with her and Illya. After he killed his father his character became broken and changed. Shirou in comparison is living the easy life yet complains. Finding Shirou and settling down is proof that he could have done that with Iri and Ilya. His character didnt change, he just realized that he cant save all of mankind so he gave up. Kiritsugu's killing Noritaka didnt affect him.All he did all those years was kiiling his emotions when pulling the trigger, this includes when shooting his father.he was born like that.If he was broken then he would still go and fight to help others. When the fuck did he complain?Also a person with mental problems cant have it easy even with peaceful days. >Also no Kiritsugu didn't want to save everyone, he was smarter than that and knew that was impossible. He always killed the few to save the many. Dude what the hell, did you even watch it? Dude his wish was to end all wars and SAVE EVERYONE. Again even Shirou tries to kill Shinji and Medea, Kirei and Gilgamesh. DID.YOU.WATCH.THE.SHOW? >Kiritsugu only survived via avalon once, Shirou did like a dozen times.Then we have the convenient "I'm gonna let you go because" from the villians. This is plot armor how?Also Kiritusgu survived because Rider saved his ass in ep 5, was spared by Lancer, survived a mutual kill because the ceiling collapsed, wasnt killed by Kirei because for plot reasons he woke up first and somehow Gil was slow as fuck at attacking him. >Look at Shirou's rise in terms of power in UBW, he went from a little shit who got owned by everyone to being able to defeat THE strongest servant. Getting stronger in the one thing he can do isnt power up.HE still didnt win against anyone.Gil could have killed him easily if he TRIED or if Archer didnt somehow survived.Fact is Shirou lost the fight against Gil. >Yeah there are excuses but its overall bullshit. I don't recall anything like that with Kiritsugu who acted way smarter in the grail war and never went above his established power. Because you say so?Kiritsugu conveniently had the right tools to fight his wars, Time Alter and Origin Bullet being stuff others gave him and yet somehow Shirou,whose powers are direct product of his way of life, is the bullshit one? Also no all of his "victories" were result of the plot forcing everything his way. Honestly if FSN wasnt a thing he would have died very early. >What does the fire (as bad as it was) have anything to do with Saber's life or the world in general? Shirou doesn't know shit about war or being a king, unlike Kiritsugu and Iskander. He is a naive stupid boy who never had to make difficult choices, never suffered for his ideals. Not to mention what a sexist shit he was in the first anime.. It degrades Saber's character, that she can only learn and develop via banging & falling in love with this dude. Why do you have to go to war or be a king to know that life is hard, that people arent always rewarded for what they do, that you cant save everyone?You honestly dont understand why Rider and Kiritsugu failed. Does Rider even know what a King is?He is a great general bu a shitty king proof is his empire right after he died.Kiritusgu knows a lot about war yet he really did the most stupid choices in the HGW. Honestly all of that are IRRELEVANT with what changed her.Shirou refused to fix the past and "save" the people he left behind in the fire, the people he couldnt save, he refused to have the easy way out and this is what changed Saber.Saber doesnt a greedy general or a stubborn killer to prove her wrong.She needs a person that lived with ideals like hers, failed but still didnt regret anything. Saber's issue was that she forgot how to live as a person.Again, what changed her was someone that didnt ridicule her path but asked her to embrace her choices and accept the results. Seems the same with FZ but it isnt.Neither Rider nor Kiritsugu understood the person that Artoria is and only talked to Saber, King o f Knights.Shirou did.Honestly even Gil understood her more than the other two did. AGAIN WITH THE SEXIST SHIT. Shirou says that to Saber and ONLY to Saber because he is desperate to keep her out of fights not because she is a girl but because 1)he is in love with her and 2) because he doesnt want ANYONE to fight, get wounded and possibly die for him. Also falling on love is irrelevant with him changing her but whatever. >Their romance was cringeworthy all the way through.. Honestly it would be better if she acted like a mother figure,not a typical love interest. Her development in UBW was far stronger, despite being rushed. That is true.Also how she tries to pass herself as masculine when she is literally like a doll is meme worthy. >God forbid not every anime female character is the typical feminine "cute" one..Saber was different and thats what made her interesting. Every scene with Iri in FZ....Iri dressed her up like man for the lolz... >I never said being Kiritsugu is good..he is a broken dude who was a complete failure. So is Shirou. I wont bother explaining why Shirou beating Gil is EXTREMELY bad for humankind. Shirou is the winner of the HGW in order for Nasu to talk about heroism and how TRYING to do good isnt bad(just needs moderation) but lore wise he doomed them all. |
ssjokg said: Oh boi... You just prove that you mix up rule of cool with good writing. You also prove that you dont care what a non adult character does even if it contradicts what you think. Lets start.: >Wat? I'm talking about how they behave and their personalities. Kiritsugu became an interesting anti hero after the tragic things that happened to him, he killed the minority (even if it was his loved one's) to save the majority. He was ruthless. Of course he is silly to believe in the grail but that only makes his story more compelling. He is a flawed human character. Kiritsugu isnt stupid just for believing in te grail.He is stupid for not cooperating with Saber, for not taking into account her character, for not analyzing how she would act in various scenarios. He is stupid because all of his plans worked because of luck like Rider being faster than him in ep5, Kayneth not taking him seriously, Sola being stupid and Lancer being buddies with Saber. Also the tragic things that happened to him are ALL HIS FAULT. He could have stopped at any point yet he kept going because of his regret; not Killing Shirley. >Shirou on the other hand acts like your generic stupid Shounen protagonist, always wanting to save everyone and being a nice dude. His backstory isn't nearly as interesting or tragic as Kiritsugu's and he is basically a fake who just borrowed his father's ideals (only the naive part) which is stupid as hell (as Archer says who I dont count to the Shirou we follow). He doesn't really suffer for his stupid ideals and instead in both anime gets cheesy as hell endings. That's literally who Kiritsugu is.A child that wants to save everyone.His final line in the series is him reply to Shirley when she asked him what he wanted to become.His final thought after all that happened was the desire he had as a child. Shirou also doesnt want to save literally everyone.he is prepared to kill but unlike Kiritsugu he doesnt just go gun ho on everyone as the #1 solution.This isnt a bad character flaw.he is prepare dto kill when he has to.He tries to kill Shinji in fate and wants to go after Medea in UBW(and is stopped by Archer's bullshit). Kiritsugu lost his village and family.lost his foster mother.He didnt lose his sense of self. Shirou lost his hometown and family.Also lost his foster father.He lost his sense of self. Archer disagreeing with Shirou doesnt make Archer right or the ideal bad in any way.Especially when Archer literally goes against what he is saying in the entire show. He doesnt suffer?Um okay, did you miss the part where he HAS to live like this for his whole life in order to have a purpose?Again, Kiritsugu could have stopped and he could find a different way of life.Shirou cant.The ideal isnt wrong but it is extremely unhealthy.He also fails to save people in UBW. Ilya, Kuzuki and from his POV Saber as well. Also the series being edgy and forcing him to suffer isnt good writing. >Seems like you misunderstood Kiritsugu's character, its basically impossible for him to have a happy life, at least before he found Shirou. Like Irisviel said he couldn't live with himself if he just ran away with her and Illya. After he killed his father his character became broken and changed. Shirou in comparison is living the easy life yet complains. Finding Shirou and settling down is proof that he could have done that with Iri and Ilya. His character didnt change, he just realized that he cant save all of mankind so he gave up. Kiritsugu's killing Noritaka didnt affect him.All he did all those years was kiiling his emotions when pulling the trigger, this includes when shooting his father.he was born like that.If he was broken then he would still go and fight to help others. When the fuck did he complain?Also a person with mental problems cant have it easy even with peaceful days. >Also no Kiritsugu didn't want to save everyone, he was smarter than that and knew that was impossible. He always killed the few to save the many. Dude what the hell, did you even watch it? Dude his wish was to end all wars and SAVE EVERYONE. Again even Shirou tries to kill Shinji and Medea, Kirei and Gilgamesh. DID.YOU.WATCH.THE.SHOW? >Kiritsugu only survived via avalon once, Shirou did like a dozen times.Then we have the convenient "I'm gonna let you go because" from the villians. This is plot armor how?Also Kiritusgu survived because Rider saved his ass in ep 5, was spared by Lancer, survived a mutual kill because the ceiling collapsed, wasnt killed by Kirei because for plot reasons he woke up first and somehow Gil was slow as fuck at attacking him. >Look at Shirou's rise in terms of power in UBW, he went from a little shit who got owned by everyone to being able to defeat THE strongest servant. Getting stronger in the one thing he can do isnt power up.HE still didnt win against anyone.Gil could have killed him easily if he TRIED or if Archer didnt somehow survived.Fact is Shirou lost the fight against Gil. >Yeah there are excuses but its overall bullshit. I don't recall anything like that with Kiritsugu who acted way smarter in the grail war and never went above his established power. Because you say so?Kiritsugu conveniently had the right tools to fight his wars, Time Alter and Origin Bullet being stuff others gave him and yet somehow Shirou,whose powers are direct product of his way of life, is the bullshit one? Also no all of his "victories" were result of the plot forcing everything his way. Honestly if FSN wasnt a thing he would have died very early. >What does the fire (as bad as it was) have anything to do with Saber's life or the world in general? Shirou doesn't know shit about war or being a king, unlike Kiritsugu and Iskander. He is a naive stupid boy who never had to make difficult choices, never suffered for his ideals. Not to mention what a sexist shit he was in the first anime.. It degrades Saber's character, that she can only learn and develop via banging & falling in love with this dude. Why do you have to go to war or be a king to know that life is hard, that people arent always rewarded for what they do, that you cant save everyone?You honestly dont understand why Rider and Kiritsugu failed. Does Rider even know what a King is?He is a great general bu a shitty king proof is his empire right after he died.Kiritusgu knows a lot about war yet he really did the most stupid choices in the HGW. Honestly all of that are IRRELEVANT with what changed her.Shirou refused to fix the past and "save" the people he left behind in the fire, the people he couldnt save, he refused to have the easy way out and this is what changed Saber.Saber doesnt a greedy general or a stubborn killer to prove her wrong.She needs a person that lived with ideals like hers, failed but still didnt regret anything. Saber's issue was that she forgot how to live as a person.Again, what changed her was someone that didnt ridicule her path but asked her to embrace her choices and accept the results. Seems the same with FZ but it isnt.Neither Rider nor Kiritsugu understood the person that Artoria is and only talked to Saber, King o f Knights.Shirou did.Honestly even Gil understood her more than the other two did. AGAIN WITH THE SEXIST SHIT. Shirou says that to Saber and ONLY to Saber because he is desperate to keep her out of fights not because she is a girl but because 1)he is in love with her and 2) because he doesnt want ANYONE to fight, get wounded and possibly die for him. Also falling on love is irrelevant with him changing her but whatever. >Their romance was cringeworthy all the way through.. Honestly it would be better if she acted like a mother figure,not a typical love interest. Her development in UBW was far stronger, despite being rushed. That is true.Also how she tries to pass herself as masculine when she is literally like a doll is meme worthy. >God forbid not every anime female character is the typical feminine "cute" one..Saber was different and thats what made her interesting. Every scene with Iri in FZ....Iri dressed her up like man for the lolz... >I never said being Kiritsugu is good..he is a broken dude who was a complete failure. So is Shirou. I wont bother explaining why Shirou beating Gil is EXTREMELY bad for humankind. Shirou is the winner of the HGW in order for Nasu to talk about heroism and how TRYING to do good isnt bad(just needs moderation) but lore wise he doomed them all. And you clearly have no idea what you are talking about...I care about refreshing well written stories and characters (dark battle royale, compelling flawed anti hero protagonist etc.), not the same old shit rehashed again (same old stupid Shounen esque protagonist, highschool setting, power ups, SOL elements etc. all that in the middle of a war). Nothing to do with rule of cool, otherwise I would like the stupid Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight because thats exactly what it is. And I'm fine with non adult characters if they are actually interesting..which Shirou isn't. Nope since just using Saber as a tool was enough for him, there weren't any real disadvantages for not being best buddies with her. How did Rider save him? He was going to kill Kayneth there anyway. Kiritsugu was smart, he actually had real plans and knew about the different masters and how they behaved (to an extent). He knew Kayneth was a typical mage so he went the sneaky way and it worked. He didn't conveniently have the right abilities, he came prepared Shirou in comparison was a naive stupid boy who had no idea about anything and just meddled in something as serious as the grail war. He got lucky because he had literal plot armor (avalon), strong people like Saber on his side and the villians acting retarded all of a sudden. He doesn't have to live like that at all, Shirou just can't move on and likes to whine and think he is special. Kiritsugu suffered way more. Its not proof, only the fire & finding Shirou changed Kiritsugu again, before that he was completely obsessed with saving the world and the grail war stuff. No pay attention, not killing Shirley and after that pulling the trigger on his father completely changed him into a ruthless killer. From that point on he was always fine with killing some people to ensure that most survive. He wasn't born like that at all, wtf? He was a typical nice kid before the tragic event. I did but clearly you didn't. Kiritsugu killed people all his life, with the grail he wanted to save the world and make it so there is never any conflict again but that doesn't mean he wasn't a killer before that and that he didn't sacrifice the minority to save the majority. Hell the grail makes it clear to him and shows how wrong his plan was. Avalon is literal plot armor..its basically an excuse for the protagonist to act retarded and reckless but don't suffer any consequences. Kiritsugu only used it once while Shirou does it all the time. His power that he couldn't use at all at the beginning of the war and somehow at the end he can hold up against actual servants? Kiritsugu had nothing like that, its as if he could suddenly fight lancer or some shit. And there is always some luck involved, the problem is that with Shirou its just luck all the time and it doesn't feel earned. See the last fight, fact is Shirou still won at the end, via villians acting stupid and literal asspulls (conveniently Archer survived..somehow) Kiritsugu was one of the smartest masters in the war, way smarter than stupid Shirou who just went reckless into fights he couldn't handle, who still went to school and on dates (ridiculous how you whine about him being stupid but then are fine with shirou..l) etc. the difference is that F/Z's world was much harsher, F/SN's wasn't so Shirou survived despite not knowing shit and even won. If he was in the fourth grail war he would have died on the first day. Rider didn't fail (again have you watched F/Z), he lived a fulfilling life and his "subjects" were all happy and respected him. Kiritsugu actually fought in wars so he knows exactly how it is. Both still aren't perfect but they know about these things more than Shirou who is talking out of his ass. The idea of Saber getting more positive development is fine but needing a naive highschool boy & a cheap romance (one of the worst and out of place in anime) to do it was stupid. Like I said her UBW development was overall better done, despite being rushed. Fair point about the sexism argument but it still came off as obnoxious and annoying. His personality in general just pisses me off and he never suffers for his dumb ideals (Kiritsugu did). He gets cheesy happy endings in both anime, defeats the big bad villians and there are no consequences How did he doom them all? Look overall F/SN just didn't appeal to me so far (while F/Z is one of my favourite anime) and this thread was made so I can know if HF is more of the same or not. Thats it. |
Aardwolf94Nov 5, 2017 12:03 PM
| yes this is the fate edge night that ur casual boner has been erect for |
Aure0linNov 5, 2017 12:11 PM
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
| >And you clearly have no idea what you are talking about...I care about refreshing well written stories and characters, not the same old shit rehashed again (same old stupid Shounen esque protagonist, highschool setting, power ups, SOL elements etc. all that in the middle of a war). Nothing to do with rule of cool, otherwise I would like the stupid Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight because thats exactly what it is. And I'm fine with non adult characters if they are actually interesting..which Shirou isn't. You do realize that Kiritsugu is a shounen character right? He is moe of a nice guy than Shirou is.Kiritsugu wants to save people because he cant stand seeing people get hurt.Shirou is mentally ill and ha sto find hapiness by imitating Kiritsugu..WHAT PART OF THAT IS SAME OLD SHIT.Fucking Christ. That the writers gave Kiritsugu guns and made him kill as the best solution to everything doesnt make him better written or something new and seinen. Shirou is far from your typical shouen MC, the setting isnt in a highschool barely 1/4 of the story is set there, and I dont see why it woudl matter anyway, and FZ had SOL moments to develop the characters as well, seems you forgot that. >Nope since just using Saber as a tool was enough for him, there weren't any real disadvantages for not being best buddies with her. How did Rider save him? He was going to kill Kayneth there anyway. I love how the bias is strong here.Shirou not agreeing with his superhuman comrade is stupid but when Kiritusgu does it and in many cases could cost him his life, everything is fine because he is Kiritsugu.Even if the grail wasnt corrupted they would still lose.You would realize that if you had pay attention. Kayneth would had survived because of his barrier.Then Kiritsugu would have revealed himself to him and Assassin. >Shirou in comparison was a naive stupid boy who had no idea about anything and just meddled in something as serious as the grail war. He got lucky because he had literal plot armor (avalon), strong people like Saber on his side and the villians acting retarded all of a sudden. Shirou isnt more naive than Kiritsugu who thinks he knows what he is doing. Kiritsugu also had that plot armor(and you are really running out of arguments if you keep using Avalon as plot armor) and many more. The villains, that is Gil was acting like in FZ as well, IN EVERY CASE except with Rider.Let me guess you are one of those people that think Gil never lost in FZ and that he started being evil in FSN. >He doesn't have to live like that at all, Shirou just can't move on and likes to whine and think he is special. Its not proof, only the fire & finding Shirou changed Kiritsugu again, before that he was completely obsessed with saving the world and the grail war stuff. FFS, he has PTSD and no sense of self.How can he move on?And when the fuck did he whine or think he is special?? Kiritsugu was whining and thought he was special.Archer as well.Shirou never did.Even after the war he doesnt think he did anything special. He was obsessed because he thought he could do it.He wasnt mentally ill.You really cant get this do you? >No pay attention, not killing Shirley and after that pulling the trigger on his father completely changed him into a ruthless killer. From that point on he was always fine with killing some people to ensure that most survive. He wasn't born like that at all, wtf? He was a typical nice kid before the tragic event. So how was he able to change like that BEFORE killing his father?Also you confuse fear with ability to kill. He ASKS Natalia to do it himself.He doesnt change after killing his father. He was born like that.Just like Kirei was born the way he is.Just like Shirou was reborn like he is. >I did but clearly you didn't. Kiritsugu killed people all his life, with the grail he wanted to save the world and make it so there is never any conflict again but that doesn't mean he wasn't a killer before that and that he didn't sacrifice the minority to save the majority. Hell the grail makes it clear to him and shows how wrong his plan was. You realize that you talk about something different right? Kiritsugu wanted to save everyone.It always was his wish.That doesnt mean that he can.Same with Shirou and Archer.It is said by Shirou as well in ep1, that he knows he cant save everyone .How can you confuse those thing so easily? >Avalon is literal plot armor..its basically an excuse for the protagonist to act retarded and reckless but don't suffer any consequences. Kiritsugu only used it once while Shirou does it all the time. Yawn....Gonna disregard that he couldnt move his arm in one occasion and that he coudl barely move at all in another.Also ye sit is retarded to want to save those around you, like when a nuke is about to explode at your position, or when the girl next to you is about to get impaled etc. >Kiritsugu didn't conveniently have those weapons and abilities..unlike Shirou he came to the war prepared. His power that he couldn't use at all at the beginning of the war and somehow at the end he can hold up against actual servants? Kiritsugu had nothing like that, its as if he could suddenly fight lancer or some shit. Time Alter and teh Origin bullet where given to him by Natalia.Without those(and the real plot armor) he would be dead. Shirou CANT fight Servants.Archer was letting him fight and Gil wasnt serious.And again Shirou didnt win against ANY Servant.Archer let him win and Gil couldnt be arsed. >And there is always some luck involved, the problem is that with Shirou its just luck all the time and it doesn't feel earned. Again, the only reason Kiritsugu is alive at the end of the war is because he HAS to because it is a prequel.Nothing he managed to do in the war was a result without luck. Staying alive in ep5 because Tokiomi made Gil retreat. Staying alive in the same ep because Rider was faster. Kirei doest attack with all the Assassins. Lancer lets him live for literally no reason. Tokiomi sacrifces all the Assassins for no reason. Team Caster are retards. Lancer gives up his advantage to kill the monster. Sola is a retard. Rider wants to leave Saber for the end. Grail mud saves him from a mutual death. Saving Shirou is also a miracle for him. >Fact is Shirou still won at the end, via villians acting stupid and literal asspulls (conveniently Archer survived..somehow) Gil was acting like that in FZ as well(gotta love that instead of trying to prove that GIl wasnt already like that you just repeat stuff) but yes Archer is an asspull.STILL doesnt beat Kiritsugu in luck. >Yeah you do, unless you just come off as a naive shit who has no idea what he is talking about. Like you do? you dont need war to know if life is unfair. >Yeah you do, unless you just come off as a naive shit who has no idea what he is talking about. Kiritsugu was one of the smartest masters in the war, hehe good one. Not working with your Servant is clearly the smartest move ever. >than stupid Shirou who just went reckless into fights he couldn't handle, who still went to school and on dates I saw Shirou handling his fight very well tho?Even you above cry about how he can "hold his own " against Servants.So which is it? Also Saber and Iri were out in the open going aroud town, literally on dates.Rider and Waver went out shopping. It was established that no fighting happens during the day. Except if you are a stupid shit like Shinji. And again we see that both series do the same shit yet only in FSN it is bad for no real reason. Again SHirou does knows shit.He knows how the magi world works. Actually no, Shirou would have survived because he wouldnt hide.He would fight with Saber and would try to "steal kills" by camping without giving a shit about how his Servant is doing. If he had the same amount of luck his father did he would easily won + wouldnt cause a fire. >Rider didn't fail (again have you watched F/Z), he lived a fulfilling life and his "subjects" were all happy and respected him. Kiritsugu actually fought in wars so he knows exactly how it is. Rider's empire fell to ruin shortly after his death because he was shit at doing his job as a king.He was a great general, maybe the best, with lots of charisma but he was no king.Kiritsugu as well was no hero or king.He knew how to fight in wars but didnt know how to save others or lead them.Neither of them knew what they were talking about and neither had any idea why Artoria was how she was. Shirou on the othe rhand is neither a King nor is he someone that oes from war to war. But he is what Artoria once was, and he leads a life that one day will lead him down the same path of self destruction and self loathing she walked on.And that is what makes her understand him and accept his words. Shirou may not have known shit about lifes of kings or freedom fighters but as far as unhealthy ideals goes he beats them all. >Both still aren't perfect but they know about these things more than Shirou who is talking out of his ass. Sigh...I wonder if Shirou ever talked about either of those and I also wonder if his talks with Artoria even were relevant to those. Key word: Communication. Also Rider doesnt know shit.His talk about kingship centers on him doing whatever he wants and the rest just following him.Really teh only difference between Saber and Rider when "leading" their subjects is that Saber was betrayed while alive, while in Rider's case they waited till he died to start sharing(and killing each other) his lands. So yes Shirou has more in common with Saber than Rider has. >How did he doom them all? Long version:Sorry I can be arsed so http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Notes. Short version: Gil wasnt being evil for the lolz.Mankind heads into certain extinction on way or the other, because of certains event before the story AND because they are currently ruining the planet which in turn will try to exterminate them(And I dont mean that in a "environmental crisis" level.)Gil's plan of exterminating the useless would at least allow them to survive much much longer.As they are now they dont have more than 1000 years left.Maybe a bit more I dont remember much. |
ssjokgNov 5, 2017 3:10 PM
| @ssjokg Ok we are done here, you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making shit up now and are getting too triggered This discussion is pointless, we clearly wont agree |
Aardwolf94 said: Great evasive actions right there.@ssjokg Ok we are done here, you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making shit up now. Yep, I dont know shit.Shirou is just a normal HS boy and Kiritsugu is the best at what he does. Fuck FSN. |
ssjokg said: Aardwolf94 said: Great evasive actions right there.@ssjokg Ok we are done here, you have no idea what you are talking about and are just making shit up now. Yep, I dont know shit.Shirou is just a normal HS boy and Kiritsugu is the best at what he does. Fuck FSN. Would be great if you meant it but we know you are hypocritical as hell. Somehow Kiritsugu is a Shounen protagonist and has more luck than Shirou who has zero experience in fighting and no idea about the war yet wins through plot armor, power ups and asspulls. Of course! |
| Seeing what you think of the characters I doubt if you even know what hypocritical means. |
ssjokg said: Seeing what you think of the characters I doubt if you even know what hypocritical means. Ah yes of course F/SN is just to D E E P for me. Praise Nasu for such a great porn game and making so many people believe that its somehow well written! |
| Try to understand FZ first. If you manage that then try to read the "porn" game. |
ssjokg said: Try to understand FZ first. If you manage that then try to read the "porn" game. Says the one who thinks Kiritsugu is more of a Shounen protagonist than Shirou. Try harder and next time don't get so salty just because someone is bashing F/SN! |
Aardwolf94 said: Carrying guns around and killing on sight doesnt make someone non shounen. ssjokg said: Try to understand FZ first. If you manage that then try to read the "porn" game. Says the one who thinks Kiritsugu is more of a Shounen protagonist than Shirou. Try harder and next time don't get so salty just because someone is bashing F/SN! But please go on, enlighten us with how well written FZ is for making adults act worse than children(their children even). |
ssjokg said: Aardwolf94 said: Carrying guns around and killing on sight doesnt make someone non shounen. Says the one who thinks Kiritsugu is more of a Shounen protagonist than Shirou. Try harder and next time don't get so salty just because someone is bashing F/SN! But please go on, enlighten us with how well written FZ is for making adults act worse than children(their children even). Its not exactly Shounen protagonist behaviour, in fact most behave like Shirou and have similiar stories. They are naive, reckless, always want to save people no matter what, get power ups etc. & get cheesy happy endings where they defeat the big bad. Kiritsugu is ruthless and kills some people to save many (Even his loved one's, or even in really bad ways like the whole Kayneth/Lancer ordeal). He is a classic anti hero and a failure. He pays for his silly ideals. So something can only be well written if everyone acts smart and is perfect & everything goes smoothly? Good to know! |
| I am glad that you still keep saying the same stuff, even tho I proved above that they arent true.You just keep proving that you dint really get what either of those shows were about. In short you want MCs that seem smart but fail at everything because otherwise they are plot armored Shpunen MCs.Good to know. I am done. |
ssjokg said: I am glad that you still keep saying the same stuff, even tho I proved above that they arent true.You just keep proving that you dint really get what either of those shows were about. In short you want MCs that seem smart but fail at everything because otherwise they are plot armored Shpunen MCs.Good to know. I am done. You didn't prove shit and just tried to dumb down F/Z. Good riddance |
S-quare22 said: Aure0lin said: fate sn is jus dumb porno gaem lol hf has nothing but werms and cooking how can it lose its glory the day it came out where would the glory have come from The fate series that I was talking about consist of two parts , fate zero and fate stay night .. fate zero is pretty good but FSN is crap and that's my opinion. PS: the three of us have shiki in the favorites , lol. You fail to realize that Fate/stay night is the original thing, Fate/Zero is a prequel in response to the huge popularity of F/sn. Fate/Stay Night's original release as a visual novel was in 2004 and the terrible Deen adaptation of F/sn is from 2006. Fate/Zero's light novel is from 2006, 2 years after the source material for F/sn... and the Fate/Zero anime is from 2011 which is a good 5 years after the Fate/stay night anime. So what you really meant to say is that the series actually got better as years went by ''yaaaaay''. |
Anime List|Manga List | Discord: Azureal#2963 |
| Textbook example of OP derailing his own thread. This thread is about HF. Zero's tone, etc, was originally inspired by HF and many plot threads started in Zero will be continued in HF (Illya, Kirei, the Matous). Shiro is also less naïve in HF than UBW or Fate. I think you will be pleasantly surprised :) Before watching HF: https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/918722991373959168 After watching HF: https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/919183501542305793 |
Sanic_de_Hegehog said: Textbook example of OP derailing his own thread. This thread is about HF. Zero's tone, etc, was originally inspired by HF and many plot threads started in Zero will be continued in HF (Illya, Kirei, the Matous). Shiro is also less naïve in HF than UBW or Fate. I think you will be pleasantly surprised :) Before watching HF: https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/918722991373959168 After watching HF: https://twitter.com/frog_kun/status/919183501542305793 I didn't derail my thread at all. F/SN fans couldn't stand me bashing the two F/SN anime in my original post so instead of answering the damm question they instead got a bit salty and wanted to prove me wrong. Anyway good to know, HF already sounded much more interesting than the first two anime. |
| Who are you kidding? The main stuff of the series are still the same thry dont just do a 180 ro satisfy people that didnt get shit in ubw and fate.And zero. You already have a fixed opinion on both series. |
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