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| This seems accurate enough. http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43077&p=3519197&viewfull=1#post3519197 "Why should I run, just because he's an admiral? We're through with that crap 2 years ago! Whether it's a marine admiral or an emperor it doesn't matter, I need to beat them all to go forward! Otherwise I can't become the Pirate King!!" |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| This chapter was awesome, I didn't expect Luffy to just punch the shit out of Fujitora, this was a very strong chapter. |
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| I feel like too many people are looking at this like Luffy is being an idiot or being selfish. He is doing it for his crew and allies. It kind of reminds me of Roger vs Shiki and how it's been said that the reason Roger never ran away wasn't because he was fearless but because he didn't want to lose his nakama. If he ran he knew he was putting them in danger. Luffy knows that if he runs that all of that rubble will still come after them and kill or harm many of his allies. He is facing up to Fujitora because he knows he has to if he want everyone to get away in one piece. He is drawing all of Fujitora's attention to himself. Also for everyone who says this is unimportant or dragging I don't how you don't see that this confrontation had to happen. Would you really have been ok with it if Oda just forgot about Fujitora and let everyone escape problem free? I guarantee there would have been even more complaining about plot holes or whatever. It only seems slow because you're reading it on a weekly basis. Only so much can fit in a chapter. Only problem I had is that I wish it was Zoro holding off Fujitora until Luffy got there to punch him. |
ashfrliebert said: metsujin said: I think it's dragged on, because some parts you can clearly cut, and it would have no effect to the story, like fodders talking, running and some other stuff etc. The fairies were to show the reason(?) of the fainting in the last chapter, thanks to stealing all the, I quote MangaStream, "KenPopo". Than there's the brief panel of the tournament members holding off the marines. Than there's the Sengoku-Law interaction. It shows fugitora lifting the wreckage, than it shows Luffy standing up to Fugitora. So no. "Here's a faceful of tropical punch" MangaStream pls Umm I was talking about the overall arc... |
| I don't think Luffy actually made contact with Fujitora's body there, didn't fuji completely block it with his sword? It's hard for me to tell based on how the last few panels are drawn, it looks like Fujitora may have blocked luffy's attack but got sent flying from the force of it? Or he could have blocked it and not moved much, just hard to tell with all that freaking smoke and debris everywhere. I think theory above me is probably close to the truth, Luffy and Fuji may fight a little bit more but Law will probably use room and switch him out , because there's no way Luffy or Law (or anyone else on this island) can beat Fujitora. Anyway solid chapter.. I too was a little scared that the whole chapter would be about tontattas from the first few pages lol. Wrapped up some more of Law's backstory and still no answers about "D".. Why people so surprised Fujitora could do something like that? Did he not bring down meteors from outer space earlier in this arc? LOL |
midnightbladeAug 27, 2015 12:44 PM
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metsujin said: ashfrliebert said: The fairies were to show the reason(?) of the fainting in the last chapter, thanks to stealing all the, I quote MangaStream, "KenPopo". Than there's the brief panel of the tournament members holding off the marines. Than there's the Sengoku-Law interaction. It shows fugitora lifting the wreckage, than it shows Luffy standing up to Fugitora. So no. "Here's a faceful of tropical punch" MangaStream pls Umm I was talking about the overall arc... Well, I'm pretty sure TOG Bam was referring to the last few chapters, you think the overall arc was dragging to 800? Course not. 123456778890 said: Of course this is not gonna be a serious fight, luffy will escape somehow or fujitora will leave him go (around chapter 799-800). He probably isn't going to defeat Fugi and vice versa, but I feel it defeats the whole point if Luffy just runs away lol Someone's probably going to convince him not to be reckless or something. |
ashfrliebertAug 27, 2015 1:23 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| The thought that struck me with Luffy and Fujitora was that Luffy looked like a real asshole by whacking Fujitora like that. Fujitora is old and blind. Sure, he has gravity super powers and can use his sword well, but we've already seen him brought to a standstill by Zoro and Sabo. |
ashfrliebert said: metsujin said: Umm I was talking about the overall arc... Well, I'm pretty sure TOG Bam was referring to the last few chapters, you think the overall arc was dragging to 800? Course not. 123456778890 said: Of course this is not gonna be a serious fight, luffy will escape somehow or fujitora will leave him go (around chapter 799-800). He probably isn't going to defeat Fugi and vice versa, but I feel it defeats the whole point if Luffy just runs away lol Someone's probably going to convince him not to be reckless or something. Nope he was referring to this particular arc, and yes I do believe this arc is dragged on. |
| Bastile: "what in THE SEVEN HELLS?" Foreshadowng? :O Lol doflamingo needed to dodge luffy's gear 3rd but Fujitora took it no problem XD |
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ichii_1 said: Bastile: "what in THE SEVEN HELLS?" Foreshadowng? :O Lol doflamingo needed to dodge luffy's gear 3rd but Fujitora took it no problem XD Euhm ye, well... Fuji >>>>>> Mingo The reason Fuji couldn't do anything was cuz of the status Mingo had, although i found it stupid he actually obeyed marine HQ's rules of the warlords when a whole island's inhabitants were in danger.. He did apologise and stuff, but that just wouldn't cut it for me lol |
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Isterio said: I see this as Oda showcasing Luffy´s character development in terms of strength (which is the little he has). If he runs now the training he went through for 2 years means nothing. It has literally nothing to do with him being protective over the colloseum guys or his crew (they trained so that aint needed anymore) and if he cares then only secondly. agree |
| Lmfao, man I can't believe Luffy surprised me like that yet again... I mean it's just like him to do that, but I was not prepared for him just punching the admiral out of no where. Even Sai was blown away, lol... so damned sudden. Just wondering though, where is it that people see Luffy saying he can't beat an admiral? I guess I might just be forgetting something from a previous chapter, but I re-read each chapter multiple times and I don't remember anything of the sort since the time-skip. I suppose 123456778890 cleared that up for me, with the mention of mangapanda's translation. metsujin said: Yes... you could remove all of those things, and then it would no longer be a story, and would just be a series of fights one after the other. How people can think One Piece would be the slightest bit entertaining if Luffy just went from fighting to Alvida, to Morgan, to Buggy, to Kuro, to Krieg, to Arlong, and so forth is beyond me. I could care less about the fights themselves, it's the reason they're fighting that matters to me. I don't know if people are spoiled now-a-days or what, but anyone with a good sense of storytelling understands that it's the details in between that make the story, and not just the climax of the story. All stories follow a certain pattern of raising and lowering the intensity as they progress to keep things interesting. No good story is nothing but excitement.I think it's dragged on, because some parts you can clearly cut, and it would have no effect to the story, like fodders talking, running and some other stuff etc. If you want purely fights, go watch some MMA fights or boxing matches, or hell wrestling if you want just a tad-bit of thematics. ashfrliebert said: I must be missing something here, because I one have no idea what any of your statement is trying to say, and two have no idea where mangastream's translation has anything to do with what you're responding too, or any of the discussion before that.The fairies were to show the reason(?) of the fainting in the last chapter, thanks to stealing all the, I quote MangaStream, "KenPopo". Than there's the brief panel of the tournament members holding off the marines. Than there's the Sengoku-Law interaction. It shows fugitora lifting the wreckage, than it shows Luffy standing up to Fugitora. So no. "Here's a faceful of tropical punch" MangaStream pls And also, you do... realize that Kenpopo is the name of one of Mansherry's abilities right? It's what she calls the dandelions she makes by using their blood. 123456778890 said: I wouldn't ever trust mangapanda... they've proven time and again that they can't translate very accurately. Unless you're just impatient for the chapter I wouldn't bother with mangapanda.Now that we talk about translation, In mangastream's scans luffy says: - We can't keep just saying... "Oh, we'll beat them someday." So what if he's an admiral!? but in MangaPanda's scans he says this: - I can't defeat you.. Like I always do.. Because you're an admiral. They're are exactly the opposite, but MangaPanda's translation seems more accurate. I don't know which group to follow anymore :D What Luffy said in mangastream's translation makes much more sense, both grammatically and sensibly. Aside from mangapanda's version being a statement that completely contradicts itself and makes zero sense... Luffy did say before that all his training was so they wouldn't have to run anymore, and they could stand up to anybody without having a repeat of the crew's seperation at Sabaody, so it makes perfect sense that he would do this. If you take the mangapanda version into account, then Luffy just said something that doesn't make sense. "I can't defeat you... like I always do." implies that he's beaten him before. And even if you were to try and interpret it in the sense that he means he can't just fight him without any planning like he always has with other opponents, then that makes even less sense than the literal interpretation, because that's exactly what he just did. |
HalibelTheEspadaAug 27, 2015 4:19 PM
Hiroyuuki said: ichii_1 said: Lol doflamingo needed to dodge luffy's gear 3rd but Fujitora took it no problem XD Euhm ye, well... Fuji >>>>>> Mingo That just makes doffy even more pathetic, he has conquerors haki and is in the prime of his life, how will he even be relevant from here on out? Unless he finds his resolve and starts training frieza style XD |
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tr1ckst3r said: Have you ever heard "andrenomics"? or simply Andre Economic? If you don't, then read Prison School for more detail. For people that claim that this chapter is short and nothing happened, you need to use "Andrenomics" for better enjoyment in reading One Piece. simply put Andrenomic is masochist economic, for a better enjoyment you need to invest yourself in something that called 'masochist' which is not reading One Piece chapter even tho the new chapter is out, for every pain you gone through, you'll get even more enjoyment in return because you got to read more chapter, thanks to this investment you made. And then when things are going well... THE MARKET HAS COMPLETELY CRASHED! Goodbye masochist thursdays! I should have sold while my stocks were high! |
]I must be missing something here, because I one have no idea what any of your statement is trying to say, and two have no idea where mangastream's translation has anything to do with what you're responding too, or any of the discussion before that. And also, you do... realize that Kenpopo is the name of one of Mansherry's abilities right? It's what she calls the dandelions she makes by using their blood. oops. looks like I missed the entire thing lol OKAY, fair enough, but my point is-and still stands, that it isn't dragging-it's...events. Things that happens in a story. metsujin said: Nope he was referring to this particular arc, and yes I do believe this arc is dragged on. So you believe...the entire arc-from the beginning, was dragging on to 800? Aren't we ignoring everything else that happened? Are we ignoring that every character and plot point was focused on the whole arc? This is a long scale thing, but I can't think of anything-aside possibly Luffy v Dolfamingo(including two flashbacks) and Corrida Colosseum(inwhich the problem lies in it running 19-pages per week..), that took a good amount of time. Everything was focused on in either, 1. One Chapter, or 2. Tidbits were shown in a previous chapter wrapped up in the current. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Isterio said: You guys are misunderstanding the reason why Fujitora didn't act against Doflamingo. It's not simply that Doflamingo was a Shichubukai, thereby being untouchable... if anything that's false, because Akainu wanted the story to be that Fujitora discovered his treachery and captured Doflamingo himself. He stated his reasoning a few chapters ago (793 specifically). He didn't act against Doflamingo because he believes in their justice system... and as he put it "With what face could a man of the very system that allowed him to run amok, attempt to point his finger at a shichibukai and talk of justice?". In other words he can't rightly say that he supports the justice system if he would simply stomp on what they already have established. As he has said before, he fully plans on shutting the Shichibukai tradition down... but he aims to do it using the laws they already have set up; doing it the "right" way in his eyes. It's more about his own integrity than anything else... it's not about keeping up appearances or fear of punishment or anything like that... it's so that he can still hold faith in his own beliefs and honestly say that he fully believes in the justice system. That obviously doesn't mean he agrees with everything they have going though, thus why he shouted at Akainu like that... because he has his own plans to make big changes in the Marines, and he had to make his intentions clear. He can't change anything if he can't stand up to the big-shots. It just means he has to take certain steps to achieve his goals. ashfrliebert said: OKAY, fair enough, but my point is-and still stands, that it isn't dragging-it's...events. Things that happens in a story. Oh, well in that case I completely agree with you. I just wasn't really sure what you were saying, but I absolutely don't think it's dragging on. I honestly can't fathom how people even come up with the idea... it sounds more like they're bored of One Piece than anything else. An arc can't even really drag on... because an arc is a made-up term. The series isn't conformed to things like arcs and whatnot... the "arc" is just one piece of an entire story. The next chapter is always related to the last, this isn't a sitcom where each chapter/episode has nothing to do with the last. Every chapter before this has lead up to where we are, and every chapter after will be related to what is going in this "arc". If people are tired of the little tid-bits of information, that's not because One Piece is dragging, it's because they don't want to see details. There's a hundred other series with just what they're looking for, but some people seem to want every single series to be exactly to their preferences or else it's a "bad story" and dragging on. |
HalibelTheEspadaAug 27, 2015 10:21 PM
WillOfDeezNuts said: I feel like too many people are looking at this like Luffy is being an idiot or being selfish. He is doing it for his crew and allies. It kind of reminds me of Roger vs Shiki and how it's been said that the reason Roger never ran away wasn't because he was fearless but because he didn't want to lose his nakama. If he ran he knew he was putting them in danger. Luffy knows that if he runs that all of that rubble will still come after them and kill or harm many of his allies. He is facing up to Fujitora because he knows he has to if he want everyone to get away in one piece. He is drawing all of Fujitora's attention to himself. Only problem I had is that I wish it was Zoro holding off Fujitora until Luffy got there to punch him. Finally someone who gets it. If anyone's played an RPG, when magic (in this case a devil fruit power) is being used but hasn't been used to attack yet you have three options: You attack the caster so he loses control of that power, prepare some kind of defense or you get out of range. The best choice in this case is to attack Fujitora until he has to set the rubble down somewhere, hopefully missing their ship. Just imagine how much energy it takes to hold up rubble the size of a small island 100+ feet in the air. Luffy can actually hold his own against an Admiral who is focusing on holding an island of rubble and fighting at the same time. As far as I've seen it Luffy has won. Not because he's stronger than an Admiral, but because he does the unexpected. Had he gotten on a boat with everyone they all would have sank under an avalanche of rubble. |
| People Talking about chapter 800 being special don't really know what they are talking about. Chapter 100 was the only special chapter and Loguetown was rushed(less 1 or 2 chapters than intended), because Oda editor forced him to go to the Grandline. Probably the only special chapter we will get again will be the 1000(though right now that is the special chapter given in the Film Z viewing). Note: 200 -> Water Luffy 300 -> Enel going to the moon 400 -> Rocketman reached the CP9's Tower 500 -> Raileigh is introduced 600 -> Fake Luffy reunites all his pirates(included Luffy) 700 -> Beginning of Dressrossa arc, where Doflamingo reveals the Mera Mera no Mi Excepting Chapter 100 that even has a special name "The beginning of the Legend", began with special narrative and ended with all the crew members vows. No other something hundred chapter was really special. Chapter 500 and 700 can be argued to be specials, but note that the entirety of the chapter didn't had nothing special to it and only the ending(a panel in the last or the second to last page) had a little revelation, something that happens in a lot of other "regular" chapters(Example, this chapter). Given all that, chapter 800 will not be any different and in the maximum will have a little revelation in its ending. Conclusion, Oda certainly isn't planning doing anything special for that chapter. |
bigivelfhqAug 27, 2015 10:44 PM
Isterio said: Dressrosa started in chapter 701. The chapter name even confirms it. Adventure in the country of love, passion and toys. Chapter 700 was just further Doffy elaboration who started already during Punk Hazard, the crew isn´t on Dressorosa during chapter 700 and Doffy+crew were introduced earlier already. So no your count is bullshit. Furthermore Chapter 1 and 601 actually share titles 600 just Concludes Shabdony hence it´s name. The island of restarting. "Doffy elaboration that started already during Punk Hazard" no it didn't, is in chapter 700 where he announces his resignation to the throne and Shichibukai position. And where he talks with Luffy, Law and with his companions about distracting the alliance with the Mera Mera no Mi. Also in that chapter that everything is set for the arc. From Fujitora participation, Kinemon interest in Dressrossa, them arriving at the country and people reaction to the Newspaper deceiving scheme. Calling chapter 700 as part of Punk Hazard is totally wrong, given that everything it has is related to Dressrossa and nothing to do with Punk Hazard. If you think an arc starts when people enter physically in an island then you really don't know what an arc is, and for you Thriller Bark began at chapter 444 instead of 442(So them fire the trap and meeting Brook for the first time is part of the previous arc). Also I don't understand how my count is bullshit, if Dressrosa only starts in 701. In reality if that was the case it would give me even more reason. People are saying that the Hundred chapters are special, but if 700 isn't even the beginning of an arc than is less special even. Also 600 doesn't conclude Shabondy return arc at all. The chapter that does that is the one Luffy in the end screams, set sail. Chapter 602(And can even be argued that in reality is 603 given that still has Caribou and Rayleigh Sabondy plot points). This proves more my point about the hundred chapters not being special. Note: Chapter 601 doesn't shares titles with Chapter 1, their names are similar, but not the same. Chapter 1 -> Romance Dawn Chapter 601 -> Romance Dawn for the New World They have similar titles, because of 2 things. Both are beginnings(first and new begin, starting point and middle point) and because both end with Luffy Screaming is determination of becoming King of the Pirates(In the same pose even). |
bigivelfhqAug 27, 2015 11:28 PM
HalibelTheEspada said: metsujin said: Yes... you could remove all of those things, and then it would no longer be a story, and would just be a series of fights one after the other. How people can think One Piece would be the slightest bit entertaining if Luffy just went from fighting to Alvida, to Morgan, to Buggy, to Kuro, to Krieg, to Arlong, and so forth is beyond me. I could care less about the fights themselves, it's the reason they're fighting that matters to me. I don't know if people are spoiled now-a-days or what, but anyone with a good sense of storytelling understands that it's the details in between that make the story, and not just the climax of the story. All stories follow a certain pattern of raising and lowering the intensity as they progress to keep things interesting. No good story is nothing but excitement.I think it's dragged on, because some parts you can clearly cut, and it would have no effect to the story, like fodders talking, running and some other stuff etc. If you want purely fights, go watch some MMA fights or boxing matches, or hell wrestling if you want just a tad-bit of thematics. To clear things up, I don't care if we see some fodders here and there talking, as long as it doesn't take the time from the main things that were happening in the arc... but there were moments were fodders running, talking blah blah blah... I'm fed up with that, now I'm sorry I don't care about fodder characters talking, and that I want to focus on more of the important stuffs. Or is it that I can't have a different opinion, and give my thoughts on it? I personally thought some chapters were pretty useless, or some events in the arc... Few examples, Like Zoro running around and then K.O-ing Pecca like it was nothing, the whole birdcage thing and PUSH, Luffy's ten minute hakki break, the commentator trying to say Luffy won, it took him five page to say 2 words (that's a nitpick because I really disliked that, plus at the time we had that thing with Sabo going on, and I really wanted to see how he handled Burges more...), the moment between Kyros and Rebecca, it was nice, but I thought that it would've been better if Oda did that, after Kyros defeated Diamante, it was more fitting in my opinion, since the wife & mother was 'present' there too, and it would've been nice to see Rebecca say 'You're my father, I want to live with you as a family" blah blah... to much focus on the Tontattas, I get that Luffy will need aid later on, but will the Tontattas be THAT important later on? Some stuff could've been handled better, and if it was a bit shorter people wouldn't complain that much? Probably. I don't hate the arc as many people do, but it was pretty hyped up, and it didn't live up to the expectation... at least my expectation. |
| Hey, this arc still has like 15 chapters left, it ain't even close to over yet.. |
| The Will of D will forever be shrouded in mystery. |
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| What interested me in this chapter was Last panel of Luffy talk. That made me respect Luffy even more :) I don't know whether he can beat Fujitora though |
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HalibelTheEspada said: If you want purely fights, go watch some MMA fights or boxing matches, or hell wrestling if you want just a tad-bit of thematics. He was not complaining about the story though, he was complaining about the minor bits and pieces. He's also complaining about the major bits and piecies now, but w/e. Another thing to note is that Luffy clearly said that he can't beat Fujitora, so why do people take things so literally? Luffy isn't stupid (well he is actually), he was just taking a stand for his conviction the way I see it. I don't know how it can benefit him by doing so right now, but we will see in the following chapter. You don't say "I can't beat this guy" and fight him anyway lol, mistranslation I believe. http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43077&p=3519215&viewfull=1#post3519215 To clear things up, I don't care if we see some fodders here and there talking, as long as it doesn't take the time from the main things that were happening in the arc... but there were moments were fodders running, talking blah blah blah... I'm fed up with that, now I'm sorry I don't care about fodder characters talking, and that I want to focus on more of the important stuffs. Or is it that I can't have a different opinion, and give my thoughts on it? Fair point, but when this happen in the arc at all? Tonattas, Law and Sengoku AREN'T minor characters. Tonatta took the marines energy, marines are mionor, Tonatta warriors? Not so much. I personally thought some chapters were pretty useless, or some events in the arc... Few examples, Like Zoro running around and then K.O-ing Pecca like it was nothing, the whole birdcage thing and PUSH, Luffy's ten minute hakki break, the commentator trying to say Luffy won, it took him five page to say 2 words (that's a nitpick because I really disliked that, plus at the time we had that thing with Sabo going on, and I really wanted to see how he handled Burges more...), the moment between Kyros and Rebecca, it was nice, but I thought that it would've been better if Oda did that, after Kyros defeated Diamante, it was more fitting in my opinion, since the wife & mother was 'present' there too, and it would've been nice to see Rebecca say 'You're my father, I want to live with you as a family" blah blah... to much focus on the Tontattas, I get that Luffy will need aid later on, but will the Tontattas be THAT important later on? That's not the point, the point is that Tonatta's is important NOW. This is their arc, so they are getting focus. Every single last one of the things you mentioned were absolutely major things, what?? You can perhaps speed these events up, but cutting these things out change the whole arc around. |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| She never actually developed or undeveloped what are you talking about. She's the same as she was in the beginning of the arc. The point of the Rebecca seen last chapter, see last chapter, not this chapter, was to resolve her and more particularly Kyros plotline. She didn't "undevelop"---she just never changed in the first. Rebecca - not a fighter, never was a fighter, still isn't a fighter, reunites with her father-nothing to do with her being a fighter, "only" has to do with her in a plot-device way for Kyros. Never developed, never undeveloped. Kyros? Much development. This has nothing to do with this chapter btw. The tonattas? Relationship with Usopp. Relationship with Dolfamingo/Sugar. Tonttattas, stealing items from people as fairies. Stealing (back?) Mansherry tears, or "donations". After that, Luffy runs from Marines, Law talks to Sengoku, Luffy stops running-woah! Nothing unnecessarily. The tonattas were stealing back the tears I believe, nothing unnecessary at all. This has nothing to do with a message the Tonatta's conveying or whatever, it's 'just' plot man. This, I believe, is how the marines collapsed last chapter. See, on top of being plot, it' also ties up the loose-ends' in the last chapter. So what are you talking about? lol |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| GOD can't we have 1 chapter discussion without a fight about wether it is a useful chapter or not?? here, i'll give you the options: 1. you don't think it"s useless: enjoy the chapters and stop reacting on the whining bitches 2. you think it's useless: Then don't care about reading the chapter weekly, it's nothing for you in this case, go marathon it each year and stop reading it for a few months-a year and do it again. |
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| Well, erm, than, wow that's good! Who knew Rebecca was such a good character, great. Wasn't her(other) development, like, she didn't want to fight, but than she was standing up to Diamntie and than she ran away, but than Kyros protected her? Or something? What's this about the whole changing resolve thing though, not sure I can recall? |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
ashfrliebert said: I personally thought some chapters were pretty useless, or some events in the arc... Few examples, Like Zoro running around and then K.O-ing Pecca like it was nothing, the whole birdcage thing and PUSH, Luffy's ten minute hakki break, the commentator trying to say Luffy won, it took him five page to say 2 words (that's a nitpick because I really disliked that, plus at the time we had that thing with Sabo going on, and I really wanted to see how he handled Burges more...), the moment between Kyros and Rebecca, it was nice, but I thought that it would've been better if Oda did that, after Kyros defeated Diamante, it was more fitting in my opinion, since the wife & mother was 'present' there too, and it would've been nice to see Rebecca say 'You're my father, I want to live with you as a family" blah blah... to much focus on the Tontattas, I get that Luffy will need aid later on, but will the Tontattas be THAT important later on? That's not the point, the point is that Tonatta's is important NOW. This is their arc, so they are getting focus. Every single last one of the things you mentioned were absolutely major things, what?? You can perhaps speed these events up, but cutting these things out change the whole arc around. I'm not gonna comment on the Tontattas, Isterio made a good argument about 'em. I'm getting tired of stuff like this, I'm sorry I don't get Oda's genius writing and that I'm not impressed by everything he does... I still stand strong with my opinion that some things could've been handled better in this arc, it's just my opinion. Why do you seem so bothered by it? Or why are you forcing your opinion on me?? |
metsujinAug 28, 2015 11:42 AM
Isterio said: ashfrliebert said: She never actually developed or undeveloped what are you talking about. She's the same as she was in the beginning of the arc. The point of the Rebecca seen last chapter, see last chapter, not this chapter, was to resolve her and more particularly Kyros plotline. She didn't "undevelop"---she just never changed in the first. Rebecca - not a fighter, never was a fighter, still isn't a fighter, reunites with her father-nothing to do with her being a fighter, "only" has to do with her in a plot-device way for Kyros. Never developed, never undeveloped. Kyros? Much development. This has nothing to do with this chapter btw. The tonattas? Relationship with Usopp. Relationship with Dolfamingo/Sugar. Tonttattas, stealing items from people as fairies. Stealing (back?) Mansherry tears, or "donations". After that, Luffy runs from Marines, Law talks to Sengoku, Luffy stops running-woah! Nothing unnecessarily. The tonattas were stealing back the tears I believe, nothing unnecessary at all. This has nothing to do with a message the Tonatta's conveying or whatever, it's 'just' plot man. This, I believe, is how the marines collapsed last chapter. See, on top of being plot, it' also ties up the loose-ends' in the last chapter. So what are you talking about? lol Stop nailing yourself to this chapter alone when Mesujin talks about the arc as a whole and only claims how this chapter is yet again another example of the bads this arc delivered. I can't do that, because I'm saying this chapter isn't bad--while he is--but in the grand scheme of things--I'm not arguing against how bad the arc is or w/e, I'm arguing against how apparently bad the chapter is. edit: To be fair, I'm arguing against how bad a certain moment in this chapter is-which helps my case even further. It´s character development if we learn "why " a character behaves the way he is. When we learned that Nami is greedy because they had not enough money to save her moms life that was character development. When we learned that Rebecca refuses to eat because she blames herself of her mothers death, that´s character development. So no, she did develop a whole lot, and even changed her resolve like 3 times. Well, erm, than, wow that's good! Who knew Rebecca was such a good character, great. Wasn't her(other) development, like, she didn't want to fight, but than she was standing up to Diamntie and than she ran away, but than Kyros protected her? Or something? What's this about the whole changing resolve thing though, not sure I can recall? The point is in that I'm not talking about that arc, I'm talking about this chapter--you were the one who brought it into the arc for some reason. edit: Uhh, looks like I duplicated my post, oops! It´s also development if a character goes from being A to being B to being A again. There´s no need for him to become a C character in order to develop, given the right circumstances such a progression can be perceived as good or bad, which is entirely subjective. But Rebecca remained "stale" for alot of time during the story. Alot of her exposition wasn´t her going back and forth between characters but being the same B character she developed into after her introduction. Like you said for a long time there was no development at all . Which would be ok if she could entertain in different ways. I don't think there's anything wrong with the fact that she didn't develop though lol, if a character is well-established enough already--I don't think they particularly need to change. Luffy, for instance, has developed few far in between(this chapter is one of those moments though!), I said it before, I said it again, the problem was that she was set up for development seemingly intentionally and 'didn't develop'. Which 'is' a bad thing. In the end it boils down to "your opinion" alot of people hate Rebecca and the Tontattas because it´s "their opinion" all you do is forcing "your opinion onto them. As much as you remember the good parts the Tontatta and Rebecca had, they do remember the "bad parts". Woo, finally, we can discuss the Tonattas again, thank god. If you consider the Tontatas being stupid and admiring different people development, that´s your subjective perception, however many people including me do not care about who they are impressed by, because it boils down to the two characteristics they have. 1.They are stupid,2. they believe everything. Copy paste that shit over every character that deceives or helps them. Well fair enough-you believe them to be bad characters, also not my point, why do you consider this scene to be bad or this scene to be unnecessary? This is like the same exact case in the Rebecca convo we've had, a character generally being bad does not detract from otherwise good moments. And they were in it for like a panel, to show the events going on, not to establish who the characters are. They took the energy from the marines under Kyros(?)'s orders. I wouldn't even call this a 'good' moment, it was a 'necessary' moment and it was in a couple panels-so it wasn't a 'bad' moment either. But just because the characters are lackluster, it doesn't detract from EVERYTHING they do. |
ashfrliebertAug 28, 2015 11:55 AM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Hiroyuuki said: GOD can't we have 1 chapter discussion without a fight about wether it is a useful chapter or not?? here, i'll give you the options: 1. you don't think it"s useless: enjoy the chapters and stop reacting on the whining bitches 2. you think it's useless: Then don't care about reading the chapter weekly, it's nothing for you in this case, go marathon it each year and stop reading it for a few months-a year and do it again. It is irritating when people post shit like "boring chapter nothing happened draggedout/5" But I can see where they're coming. They want to get to the next arc and as fast as possible and get straight into the action. But One Piece didn't work that way, Oda writing style was never change from the first chapter and not going to change, he focused more to the character interaction rather than action and plot, if anything, character interaction is the one that drive the plot, just like how Luffy keep detouring because he met so many random people along the way. He won't kill people unless it's necessary, he stated it before that he loves happy ending, unless the plot demand it, he won't kill people, deal with it. If you've already read One Piece chapter up until this chapter, you ought to deal with it already. |
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Isterio said: See my point is not that your opinion is wrong. But you´ve completely disregarded what Mesjuin said by nailing yourself to this chapter,. He just claimed that this arc as a whole had alot of bad parts and this chapter to a degree reminded him of those parts. Uhh, that bad part he mentioned in particular happen to be pacing. He stated it was "dragging to 800"-if he's talking about the entire arc instead of the chapter-or recent chapters, I can't imagine Oda intentionally dragging it to 800 from the beginning of the arc. Maybe he's doing it at this point, though. But you keep on bringing the discussion back to this specific chapter which was never point of his argument. Your argument is, this chapter wasn´t bad because X and Y reason. He claims this arc was bad because of X and Y chapter, not that the chapter in itself was bad. However, even if he was talking about the chapter like you, people do have every right to consider it bad. He claimed this arc was bad because it was dragging on to 800? No, that's ridiculous. I do not think Oda can forsee that far into the future, regardless of whether or not he planned out the arc beforehand. Fair enough, Rebecca contributed to the arc a major way, but it's 'still' irrelevant because I was never talking about the arc's character quality in the first place outside of the dwarves--I was talking about the pacing of the last few chapters. And I was talking about the events of this chapter. True, you can easily discuss the arc in it's entirety in relation to the Dwarfs, but Rebecca got nothin to do with that. Buuuut, I already responded to your Rebecca post so I can't do much about that now. They are not forced to share your opinion which you and every Oda worshipper refuse to do. Especially with shiposts like, if you don´t like it drop the series. Except I never said this? edit: I said it before, okay, but context please. Once, the point was that One Piece had flashbacks constantly and that that's bad. My counterpoint was that flashbacks were constantly in One Piece and is a legitimate way to tell a story, and that if you didn't like flashbacks you'll pretty much have a hard time liking One Piece-in general. Not to say that has anything to do with this convo, but for some reason we're discussing Rebecca in a convo originally about Tontattas. So hey, I guess anything goes. Regarding Rebeccas resolve. She went from. A:I´m gonna get the Mera Mero No Mi for my friends to beat Doflamingo. To B: How did I even consider competing with them, this is a whole different league they are in. I´ll just support them as much as I can. Than nothing happens forever with her although her screentime is pretty prevelant. She´s together talking with Sabo, she flies down a mountain with Robin. While all she does it deliver unimportant lines that other characters have either said already or implied. Character X:We must go there to do Y. Rebecca: yes you´re right we must go there to do Y. Way to go Oda that line made her scene completely worth it! Then the second time she developes. I don´t eat because mom died for food in the past. And her regressing from B: I can´t take them on to A: I have to beat Diamante. Just to regress in the same chapter back to B: I can´t take on Dimante someone help me please! So her whole progression was delivered in 3 chapters, while she took the space of 10 doing more of the same Every screentime she has from this point onwards is consistently her being in her B stage which we´ve seen through the whole arc besides the two instances she fought. Eh that's wrong in development, sorry but I can't talk about Rebecca without talking about Kyros--that's how revolved around him her character is. So, she never really intentionally confront Diamntie herself, he confronted her, or maybe they just found eachother coincidentally, but point is--she didn't confront him intentionally. She was looking for the key. http://bato.to/read/_/282652/one-piece_ch756_by_powermanga/17 http://bato.to/read/_/282652/one-piece_ch756_by_powermanga/18 From the panels-it seemed like it was built up, but it wasn't--but that's fine. But she never set her mind on defeating Dimante in the first place-she ran the whole fight until Kyros came. http://bato.to/read/_/291090/one-piece_ch757_by_powermanga/14 She never regressed, she just didn't want to fight anyway-never was her goal. Shame that Oda didn't make her defeat Diamnte, but she didn't "undevelop"-it was just lack of it(development) anyway. "A: I have to beat Diamante"--never happened. It seemed like that was going to happen, sure, but it didn't happen. PS. I think that complaining that Rebecca doesn't do anything against her mother's murderer while she's having PTSD flashbacks is sorta odd--but fair enough in I can get with the fact that Oda built it up that way and didn't deliver. |
ashfrliebertAug 28, 2015 5:31 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
ashfrliebert said: Thanks for clearing that up, it makes much more sense that way. I don't know how can mangapanda screw that up so badly. >_>Another thing to note is that Luffy clearly said that he can't beat Fujitora, so why do people take things so literally? Luffy isn't stupid (well he is actually), he was just taking a stand for his conviction the way I see it. I don't know how it can benefit him by doing so right now, but we will see in the following chapter. You don't say "I can't beat this guy" and fight him anyway lol, mistranslation I believe. http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=43077&p=3519215&viewfull=1#post3519215 Now I am even more hyped for the confrontation. I wonder though, if Luffy seriously think that he can take on an admiral. We will just have to see. Hiroyuuki said: No they can't. So,GOD can't we have 1 chapter discussion without a fight about wether it is a useful chapter or not?? Hiroyuuki said: this is exactly what I am gonna do from now on.1. you don't think it"s useless: enjoy the chapters and stop reacting on the whining bitches HalibelTheEspada said: Pretty much what I meant but put in a better way. I agree completely.An arc can't even really drag on... because an arc is a made-up term. The series isn't conformed to things like arcs and whatnot... the "arc" is just one piece of an entire story. The next chapter is always related to the last, this isn't a sitcom where each chapter/episode has nothing to do with the last. Every chapter before this has lead up to where we are, and every chapter after will be related to what is going in this "arc". |
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ashfrliebert said: He claimed this arc was bad because it was dragging on to 800? No, that's ridiculous. I do not think Oda can forsee that far into the future, regardless of whether or not he planned out the arc beforehand. When did I said this arc was bad? I said it's dragged out, the pacing in the second half is not great, and we had easily skipeable chapters, maybe I should explain myself better, my bad, but I never said it was a bad arc. Also I said some moments and parts here and there could've been handled better, am I not allowed to say that? I can't critic this a bit just because it's One Piece? That's ridiculous. |
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