One Piece Chapter 798 Discussion

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Oct 2013

4275

HalibelTheEspada said:

Isterio said:
The bolded part is just wrong, people are just tired of Dressrosa.

An analogy: If you feed a person consistantly cake he´ll get tired of it. Although the cake may be delicious. However Dressrosa had the habit of using shit as filling for special cakes and Oda made alot of them, while others had cream filling, which made them a a treat (Law Flashback) sadly they were rare.
Making it a gamble of having dry cake again, cream filled or shit filled samples.

Ofc that was individually perceived, and some people ate the shit claiming it was cream.

The few that dislike One Piece in general are the ones spamming threads about declining in quality and dropping or Mikasa alts.

Well, all I'm saying is logically speaking it makes no sense to be bored of a single "arc". I haven't seen a single chapter that didn't very plainly serve a much larger purpose, or at least set up for something grander. An "arc" is just a term created to make discussion easier... but it's not like each new location is it's own story... every single chapter is just a tiny piece of a much larger whole. No one chapter is exclusively related to just an "arc".

So the idea that it's dragging makes no sense. People will continue saying things like Dressrosa is filled with pointless chapters 'til the very end of the arc, and then when it finally comes around and every chapter was revealed to have had a purpose, those people will simply play it off by saying the same shit about the next arc. It isn't anything new, it's a pattern that has always been around since discussion boards like this have been a thing; about probably every single series ever. It's nothing more than people complaining just to complain.

And of course, there's also the the fact that a large portion of the people complaining about it "dragging on" have been saying the same things for the past 200-300 chapters, at least, if not longer.

BUT, what I think what it really comes down to is more than anything, is that some people just tire of seeing the same things for too long. And usually that may not be a negative thing, but it's nonsense to think that a story should remove every little detail that's not the biggest turning point of the series, just to make things move on quicker. It's very likely that future arcs will only grow longer and longer... because, with a few exceptions, that's how it's gone since the very beginning.

Since you´ve been civil I´ll answer in a civil manner as well.
Ofc both of us are here are just using assumtpions,though I am on the side that disliked/hated certain chapters of this arc, while you try to defend every chapter?
May I say that? Because if you found some chapters unnecessary please name the single ones.

I didn´t hate on last two I found them decent to good, there were others that I felt were unnecessary or dissapointing. You claim that people are tired of seeing the same things.

My guess is you´re refering towards the "formula" aka the certain patterns that Oda established early in the series. That he keeps recycling with a new bucket of paint during every "sidestory " he tells. I´ll use that term since you are gung hoh on refusing to use the term "arc," although literature itself is just an invetion to store knowledge that later evolved into a way to entertain people, but I´m getting off track.

However "Arc" (only usage) is not a term fans created like the term Big Three that get´s thrown around when any new popular series hits in Japan more than 5million sales for a year. It´s older and was used to label a continuation of events that are tied together which took place in a longer storyline in a series or a comic book.
Basicly the same they do for Manga and Anime. So to avoid saying I liked/disliked,the part of the story from chapter 50-80 they say i disliked this storie´s arc( i swear the last time).Because thats what "sidestories"are, parts of a bigger story that are also self included to a degree since they always have a conclusion, even when they initiate or future events, a sidestory in whatever Anime or Manga has a conclusion that somehow finishes it be it satifying or not.

The dragging argument doesn´t refer to One Piece in genera, it refers to the fact that many chapters (or large parts of them, during the Dressrosa "sidestoy" feel pointless. It doesn´t matter if one important line was shared when the other 20 did nothing to progress the plot or showcase any action.

It´s been explained to death.

We all know that X guy needs character development because he´ll have one future fight that´ll last two pages! Maybe.
That´s not what people are complaining about, we all know how Goda will make Pell, Bon, Clay, Captain Kuro, Bellamy,Arlong, Dalton and Moria in the final arc.
Because we need to know their backstories for the one henchmen they´re gonna fight in the future.
Anyway that´s just one complain people keep defending to death, They are "IMPORTANT YOU SEE IMPORTANT".
We all know how Oda pulled of Brook and yes it was beautiful that he remembered Laboom, but giving all those characters a whole backstory aint gonna make them more important to the overall plot or their likeability.
Just because certain characters will be, doesn´t mean we need the amounts of exposition we had on all of them.
I don´t doubt that Sai and his Happo Navy will have some mediocore importance in building Luffy´s army that´s something I consider necessary.
I can agree that Bartolomeo and Cabbage will have some consistent mediocore roles in the future. But I don´t think that Blue Gilly Abdula Jet or Hajrudin will be more important than the guys who fought on the Whitebeard war.

That´s not the sole complaint though, which get´s always defended as IMPORTANT.

The consistant complains come Luffy running around for 3 chapters in a row. Giving Cabbage´s fucking horse a backstory, wasting pages on Luffy getting angry over a bull getting shot, when he already should be mad for Doffy commiting genocide or trying to kill his crew etc.

Yes certainly people are bored from the unning gag of Luffy´s fights getting stalled till the end, but this running gag has reached his pinacle in this arc.
Comparisions Arlong, Luffy is underwater it´s a tense situation, we know he won´t die but someone else could because he tries to safe him.
At this point Oda didn´t have trolled the fanbase by bringing every single asshole who ever was supposted to be dead back to life, so the tension was real.

Ennies Lobby, Luffy was running around for several chapters,exactly like in Drerssrosa but it was rarely shown, also little hints towards what Gear does were given while the whole running happened. At the same time every other Strawhat had a "lifethreatening" battle to fight, which wasn´t cut off so poorly.
The tension was high because there is a bigger goal to achieve, within a timelimit, for a character that we were made to like.
A character people would miss if he was to die there or even get hurt.
While partially running was a stalling mechanism another one was defeating Bruno, which was an exciting way of stalling.

Yeah we get it Goda fans, there´s no need to rush the final fight.
But there are better ways instead of showing us Abdula and Jet dicking around.
The other coloseum tards yelling for the 20th fucking time.
Rebeccas tits and ass or her crying.
The Tontatta´s being impressed over nothing or tricked for the xth time.
Or the announcer getting a chapter of exposition repeating to us the same shit he said 1 chapter ago.
Bellamy getting shit on for 5 chapters.
5 chapters of pushing .
He could have used allllll that space to showcase Zorro vs Pica. This was like the worst executed Zorro fight the series ever had. Not that it´s hard considering that he has some of the best fights of the series period, but this fight was garbage level.
Another alternative would have been to actually show us a Sabo fight, it´s not that hard.
Or just cut it off alltogether and showcase all the other promised stuff.

Whenever other One Piece fans complain about a single chapter, the people who defend Oda claim it´s the "adventure" part. See there´s a certain amount of range I consider an adventure within story.

A hero chopping off goblins heads, in a quest of preventing the return of Galgamek the evil devil lord, whose aim is to end all life because of his feud with Garanush the god of creation is an adventure.

5 Children going into a hidden cave, where they find a magical treasure,
that opens a portal into a parallel universe, where Nazis ride on T-Rex with boners and they have to fight for survival is an adventure.

Seeing a character riding a dragon, playing a wicked ass guitar solo, shooting lightning from their palms, while getting their dick sucked within a thunderstorm is something I deem an adventure.

Having 2-5 men riding on a horse for 5 chapters can be certainly considered an adveture, but that usually goes into Brokeback Mountain territory and One Piece is about Pirates not Cowboys.
Having two idiots I don´t care about talking about worthless stuff isn´t an adventure.

In summary.

1.Alot of teasing towards exposition of "important" characters whose screentime was limited in the end.
2.Filling the chapters they could have filled with above mentioned characters with new characters, who are unlikely to be ever seen again or haven´t proven any sympathy towards the audience, for many reasons.
3. Already predictable writing concluded with even slower pacing than usual.
Alabasta was a very similar "sidestory" and wrapped up in 30 chapters, how does that work?
4. Alot of time wasted on forgettable or unimportant characters antics.
5. Constant repetition of said as boring perceived antics.
6. Making Dressrosa into another buildup "sidestory" when we already had 2 buildup "sidestories", in general the similarities to the last two "sidestories"are too big.
7. 3 "sidestories"in succession with one giant "danger threat" that is no danger to begin with because we know people don´t die in OP outside of flashbacks.

Noah, Shinokuni Birdcage.
8. Annoying converluded writing of the individual stories.
Because of the bigger size of the arc and the higher spread of focus the usually well perceived storytelling of multiple storylines that concludes with Luffy, felt missplaced.
Aka it´s easier to manage 8 characters and their plotlines and reach a satisfying conclusion for all of them compared to 30.

IsterioAug 28, 2015 10:49 PM

Aug 28, 2015 9:51 PM

#103

animeBee1ver

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Jul 2015

308

@HalibelTheEspada "...that's how it's gone since the very beginning."

Front the beginning up to now, what. . 15 years? And in that span, fans became fathers, mothers, died from old age, got a job, wars ended, alien invasions repelled. Pip's taste change.

There would be less grumbling, I think, if the series grows as well, to have more edge, understanding older viewers, teens, but I guess it's unorthodox in this industry. In one piece, what I mean would be apparent if I point out luffy, an unchanging dummy, who's most in the chapters, but it can't be helped, that's what he is. The others, aside from grown up appearances/powers, I don't know. I mean, the situations, drama they play is the same, reactions the same. To me, it's transparent, the values and change of character they developed over the years, to pronounce this growths is what I'd prefer, it's humanising, a thing we all can relate, but not given in this series, unfortunately. I guess it's a risk the writer's not willing to take, readers hating them character's changes.

I'd like to point out harry p. Books as a sample and the normal growth of mc and story. i know the fans/culture are different, but if I have to gamble, by not much.

Aug 29, 2015 1:37 AM

#104

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Jun 2012

1347

Isterio said:

Well, I'll just first say I've never "defended" whether or not a chapter was good. I could care less about that stuff... if I did I'd join a support group or something. If someone wants to dislike something that's fine and dandy, and completely their choice. Yes, I've enjoyed every chapter since the very start, but I'm not going to tell people they have to like a chapter or the series. But if someone makes a statement and I think it's not true then I'm going to post a counter-argument and anticipate either their own counter-argument or their agreement... when I debate, it's a matter of facts, not opinions. You'll never see me say "you're wrong, this is good".

Also my claim that people are tired of seeing the same things is not my own... that's just what various people like to keep reminding us all of every other week.

And I'm not talking about some formula that Oda created either. I'm talking about a writing system that's been around for generations. Not saying I'm some pro writer or anything, but I've taken a number of writing classes, so I do know a bit about writing... but even using just the basics; stories all work the same way in the sense they flow much like a wave... there are high points and low points. Generally there is the introduction to familiarize yourself with the situation and the characters, then there is the action, drama, romance, etc. that eventually leads to the climax, and then assuming it doesn't end on an anti-climax, there is the conclusion where events die down and all loose-ends are resolved. If you pick up any successful book series, and I'm not just talking about manga... Harry Potter, or Game of Thrones or anything of that sort, you'll see they all follow that same pattern. It's not that it's some formula that was established and followed by authors, that's just how stories are, fiction or not.

And I didn't say manga fans created the term "arc", nor am I saying I think it's not alright to use... but it isn't a very old term, only commonly used since 1988. But if you notice I use it constantly... I was just putting emphasis on it to try and get my point across. And that is that while an arc may technically be a sensible term, and be a very real concept... One Piece, or any other series, is not committed to fitting into the limitations of that mere word.

To further clarify on the reason why I said an arc can't drag without saying that the entire series is dragging: the series has always had an end-goal and has a pretty much set ending... how this arc ends is just a single stepping stone in getting to that end. One Piece has and always will be the exact same as it always has been... whether it gets more or less dark, or emotional, or whatever. The only real reason why more and more people complain is because One Piece is far longer than your average series, and the longer a series goes on the more some people just can't handle the same thing. But for a series to be considered a series it needs to be consistent pretty much the whole way through.

And hell you could say that with any regular novel series, like the ones I mentioned before, an "arc" would be an entire novel. And those can take years to write, sometimes many (looking at you Game of Thrones). However, unlike those series with weekly manga we're graced with the chance to read it weekly... which can also add to people feeling like it's taking a far too long, but the fact is, most series don't come out weekly, and this entire Dressrosa arc would probably take 2-3 years to write in your average series, if not more.

And to TRY to shorten my response to the most of this section: as I've said plenty of times before, these things that you've mentioned are neither new, nor are they extremely common to the series... they're what make up One Piece. If it seems like there's more flashbacks, explaining, running around, etc. it's not because this arc had an increase in these things, it's that the arc is much longer than those arcs. You can blame it on filler chapters if you want, but still just boils down to the length of the series... as it continues on the intensity only grows and the things that define One Piece will only grow as well.

But for the record, there was no flashback for Cavendish's horse, or anything describing his past... and there was only one hint towards the Gears' function and that was right before the fight with Lucci when Luffy busted the tunnel door open, out of our view, and turned tiny in front of Chimney and Gonbei.

And, honestly, I really hope you can see the contradiction with your last statement here... you're say you that you agree that it's been dragging because there was too much of one thing, while also saying there should've been more of another. That's not wanting less, that's wanting it the way you'd have imagined it. It's fine to want things a different way, it's just for this reason that I get tired of so many people simply summarizing their thoughts as "it's taking too long... so bad!".

Honestly all this kind of statement achieves is spreading the flame wars. It's not One Piece fans who go to Fairy Tail threads and talk baseless shit... and it's not Fairy Tail, or Bleach, or w/e else fans who come to One Piece threads and do the same. It's trolls... plain and simple. Those same people who do it here, are doing it in all the other threads too.

The rest about the adventure stuff, I don't understand what you're trying to point out. You're saying One Piece isn't an adventure series? The same series where the main character is constantly shouting at everyone about his lust for interesting adventures, finding lost treasures, and overcoming any challenges along the way?

Aug 29, 2015 1:37 AM

#105

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May 2015

2360

metsujin said:

ashfrliebert said:

He claimed this arc was bad because it was dragging on to 800? No, that's ridiculous. I do not think Oda can forsee that far into the future, regardless of whether or not he planned out the arc beforehand.

When did I said this arc was bad? I said it's dragged out, the pacing in the second half is not great, and we had easily skipeable chapters, maybe I should explain myself better, my bad, but I never said it was a bad arc. Also I said some moments and parts here and there could've been handled better, am I not allowed to say that? I can't critic this a bit just because it's One Piece? That's ridiculous.

You said you think it dragged on--he stated it dragged on to 800, but I got lost in the moment so much I forgot he was being sarcastic lol. I was implying that the implication of it(the whole arc!) dragging on to 800--the post you responded to with "I think it's dragged on" is ridiculous. I just confused myself...sorry!

ashfrliebertAug 29, 2015 1:42 AM

ゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Aug 29, 2015 2:22 AM

#106

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Jun 2012

1347

animeBee1ver said:

Ok, yes I could agree with your point if One Piece started with Luffy's perspective being that of a kid. You have to understand though that that's not the case... Luffy was 17 (an adult) at the beginning of the series, and now only 2 years have passed since them making him only 19 (still an adult but still same age range)... so unlike the Harry Potter series, Luffy was fully grown by the time this all began.

And I mean, you should easily be able to see the mental growth Luffy has gone through since the flashbacks of him as a kid... and there have been some clear changes in his attitude towards everything since the Straw Hats' separation and Ace's death 2 years ago. Of course he's still the same old Luffy as he was, but he's obviously matured in many ways, as shown by his speech when they reunited, the fact that he actually listened to Law's strategy particularly once the final showdown started, also he worries more about the whys now than just the whats... the old Luffy wouldn't have listened to Rebecca's story, he would've just heard "strong, bad man... fight!"

Also he now fights with his head in the game rather than just assuming he can always win just by going balls to the wall without any kind of tactic (back when he fought Rob Lucci he fought to the bitter end without even realizing his own limits or even being able to understand how he could possibly be losing... same with the first incident on Sabaody and Kuma).

At least in my eyes, Luffy has grown a lot, as well as the rest of the crew. No he didn't change into some hardass who is now closed-up and angry at the world over a short time like 2 years. But no adult with any kind of mental strength would. I mean take Vietnam for example, that lasted 19 years... and many people served the entirety of it... and proportionally only a few of them got things like PTSD.

It's not death and destruction that changes people into someone they're not... it's when that becomes all you've ever known. Everyone loses brothers, parents, and friends... and most people get over it. Someone like Luffy who grew up seeing his fair of horrible things, and with the kind of willpower he has, isn't going to just lose himself completely in a matter of 2 years just from losing his brother... no matter how sad that is.

And one other thing, Oda himself was also an adult when he first began the series, and he's since been married and had kids and has likely lost plenty of loved ones... but it's not like he's become someone he isn't... he still for the most part carries the same belief in this series that he always did, and clearly is proud to keep showing that. It would be incredibly unorthodox for the series to suddenly change targeted audiences... that'd be like Full House suddenly taking after The Walking Dead and just having everyone killing each other and making it as grossly detailed as possible.

Aug 29, 2015 4:13 AM

#107

animeBee1ver

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Jul 2015

308

@HalibelTheEspada

experiences = growth/change; age does not matter, stories do.

are you saying that he doesn't listen to stories and plans before? Sure in some, but all?

I don't know about that.

so losses, huh. To some, but certainly not all. perhaps a few, but I doubt about most. maybe most, but surely not a few...

ugh. why bother...

Aug 29, 2015 7:17 AM

#108

AnimeLaver01

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Mar 2014

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Living with his Heart ~ .
Blast 'em all !!

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Aug 29, 2015 8:08 AM

#109

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Oct 2013

4275

HalibelTheEspada said:

The rest about the adventure stuff, I don't understand what you're trying to point out. You're saying One Piece isn't an adventure series? The same series where the main character is constantly shouting at everyone about his lust for interesting adventures, finding lost treasures, and overcoming any challenges along the way?

Regarding the advernture argument:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCLEWG6wMzc&ab_channel=CodeProvider

Outside of the fact that i think the guy is full of shit I´ve seen his argumentation with different words from other people.

Basicly using the "Adventure" part to justify content of Dressrosa who had no adventure to it. Claiming how it´s buildup for the adventure.

I never meant to say that One Piece is not an adventure. Luffy riding a Dinosaur?
Adventure! The Strawhats going through the deep sea encountering sea monsters and giant fish? Adventure, totally agree on this.
15 guys in a colloseum that get all a name just to be fodderized and later repeat themselves in yelling the same stuff? Is that an adventure?

However Codeprovider is a basic example of a person that refuses to admit the flaws One Piece has.

1 He calls him Goda. Which isn´t that special.
2.Whenever someone points out that he considers parts of One Piece flawed he get´furious and explains how there are no flaws.
3. He has a whole video where he claims how "Goda" transcended humanity because he´s writng an epic like One Piece.

Every person I claimed to be a Oda defender fullfills point 2 1 and 3 don´t matter.
I never claimed them to have joined a special club, it´s just a term to differentiate them as a special group within the One Piece fanbase.

However even the thought of something having no flaws is arrogant beyond belief. It´s like claiming your girlfriend is a perfect 10 (no human being is).
Humans are flawed so are all their works.
The difference here is that althoguh you claim how you don´t care what others think.

You always try to disprove people when they point out the flaws in the writing.
While Oda has proven to have made objectively based writing mistakes.
As in, he´s written alot of storyelements that have contradicted his own applied rules. That´s the one rule of writing an author is not allowed to break and he did it.

And yet people claim how One Piece is unflawed.

Aug 29, 2015 8:19 AM

#110

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Jun 2013

1727

@Isterio he changed since 2013, which is pretty shocking to be honest.

But you basically described 60-70% of the people around here with the

2.Whenever someone points out that he considers parts of One Piece flawed he get´furious and explains how there are no flaws.

Aug 29, 2015 9:45 AM

#111

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Oct 2013

4275

metsujin said:
@Isterio he changed since 2013, which is pretty shocking to be honest.

But you basically described 60-70% of the people around here with the

2.Whenever someone points out that he considers parts of One Piece flawed he get´furious and explains how there are no flaws.

It´s bizzare it´s like all the rumors I´ve heard from the Naruto fanbase are applied to the One Piece fanbase.

Aug 29, 2015 10:19 AM

#112

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May 2015

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Isterio said:

HalibelTheEspada said:

The rest about the adventure stuff, I don't understand what you're trying to point out. You're saying One Piece isn't an adventure series? The same series where the main character is constantly shouting at everyone about his lust for interesting adventures, finding lost treasures, and overcoming any challenges along the way?

Regarding the advernture argument:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCLEWG6wMzc&ab_channel=CodeProvider

Outside of the fact that i think the guy is full of shit I´ve seen his argumentation with different words from other people.

Basicly using the "Adventure" part to justify content of Dressrosa who had no adventure to it. Claiming how it´s buildup for the adventure.

Uhhh, what does One Piece being an adventure series have to do with Dressrosa?

His point about Skypeia being 'filler' is fair enough though, it's absolutely an adventure, and it's absolutely important in the grand scheme of things considering the Poneglyph. The "adventure" part of Dressrosa is really only getting to it.

Are people...are people genuinely criticizing Dressrosa for not being an adventure? Uhh...

I never meant to say that One Piece is not an adventure. Luffy riding a Dinosaur?
Adventure! The Strawhats going through the deep sea encountering sea monsters and giant fish? Adventure, totally agree on this.
15 guys in a colloseum that get all a name just to be fodderized and later repeat themselves in yelling the same stuff? Is that an adventure?

The whole series is about his adventure! The adventure part is actually getting there and the people he meet, it's exactly like Alabasta in fact. Yes, yes it is.

I mean, this is basically how it is. One Piece is an adventure series. That's what it is. This is not defending Oda, this is telling a fact about his series. It's like saying Berserk is a fantasy manga. Really, the only arc I can think of that 'isn't' adventure is perhaps Impel Down/Marineford which was a big exception to the rule(Luffy's crew wasn't there, Ace's execution), but that's about it.

Oh and the characters introduced will be relevant, probably, but that doesn't really make it better to dump so many characters in one arc imo.

None of the collesuem participants got fodderized, what are you talking about?

ゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Aug 29, 2015 2:02 PM

#113

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Jun 2011

13762

Isterio said:
However "Arc" (only usage) is not a term fans created like the term Big Three that get´s thrown around when any new popular series hits in Japan more than 5million sales for a year. It´s older and was used to label a continuation of events that are tied together which took place in a longer storyline in a series or a comic book.
Basicly the same they do for Manga and Anime. So to avoid saying I liked/disliked,the part of the story from chapter 50-80 they say i disliked this storie´s arc( i swear the last time).Because thats what "sidestories"are, parts of a bigger story that are also self included to a degree since they always have a conclusion, even when they initiate or future events, a sidestory in whatever Anime or Manga has a conclusion that somehow finishes it be it satifying or not.

This "arc" argument only started because some people claim that Oda was trying to drag Dressrosa out for the 100, which in itself has no meaning because it is a continuous story. Halibel explained it better than I could ever do.

Isterio said:
It´s like claiming your girlfriend is a perfect 10 (no human being is).

I don't see how this is such a problem. Every person has different standard, and a person's value to someone differs from one to another. If a person is perfect 10 in the eye of the beholder, then it is. The saying of "humans are flawed" has become a thing people say just for the sake of saying. Of course, humans can't be perfect if you think that we should learn to fly or breathe fire, but if not, perfection is subjective from one another. Unless you are trying to go strictly by the raw definition, which is ridiculous in itself when used to describe anything, which in turn makes the term pointless.

ashfrliebert said:
Really, the only arc I can think of that 'isn't' adventure is perhaps Impel Down/Marineford which was a big exception to the rule(Luffy's crew wasn't there, Ace's execution), but that's about it.

It is still part of Luffy's journey, which where the "adventure" term comes from.

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Aug 29, 2015 2:37 PM

#114

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Oct 2013

4275

ToG25thBaam said:

Isterio said:
However "Arc" (only usage) is not a term fans created like the term Big Three that get´s thrown around when any new popular series hits in Japan more than 5million sales for a year. It´s older and was used to label a continuation of events that are tied together which took place in a longer storyline in a series or a comic book.
Basicly the same they do for Manga and Anime. So to avoid saying I liked/disliked,the part of the story from chapter 50-80 they say i disliked this storie´s arc( i swear the last time).Because thats what "sidestories"are, parts of a bigger story that are also self included to a degree since they always have a conclusion, even when they initiate or future events, a sidestory in whatever Anime or Manga has a conclusion that somehow finishes it be it satifying or not.

This "arc" argument only started because some people claim that Oda was trying to drag Dressrosa out for the 100, which in itself has no meaning because it is a continuous story. Halibel explained it better than I could ever do.

Isterio said:
It´s like claiming your girlfriend is a perfect 10 (no human being is).

I don't see how this is such a problem. Every person has different standard, and a person's value to someone differs from one to another. If a person is perfect 10 in the eye of the beholder, then it is. The saying of "humans are flawed" has become a thing people say just for the sake of saying. Of course, humans can't be perfect if you think that we should learn to fly or breathe fire, but if not, perfection is subjective from one another. Unless you are trying to go strictly by the raw definition, which is ridiculous in itself when used to describe anything, which in turn makes the term pointless.

Which would be perfectly fine and if people wouldn´t consistenly try to explain why the ones complaining or praising are wrong, instead of accepting that they disagree and accept their argument as an alternative.

Which inlcudes everyone who discusses here including you.

Aug 29, 2015 5:19 PM

#115

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May 2015

2360

Wouldn't that defeat the whole point of a discussion thread?

ToG25thBaam said:
This "arc" argument only started because some people claim that Oda was trying to drag Dressrosa out for the 100, which in itself has no meaning because it is a continuous story. Halibel explained it better than I could ever do.

Well, he has a fair point, but there 'is' a difference between things being pointless and things dragging on. Sometimes, things could've been solved in a chapter or two but went on for more, doesn't make it pointless--but it is dragging it out.;

But, I mean, it was pretty much just a cliffhanger, there were like two other things that happened in this very chapter, and another one of them(Sengoku's conversation with Law) was very much important.

Than again, the complaints are that these things are pointless anyway, though. Not so much for "dragging" it out as much as "I don't care about these things because I want the arc to end". Sure, feel free to criticize these things, but there's a distinction to be made.

There's complaints to be made about the dwarfs character sure, but uhh, the scene was really only for exposition in explaining the collapsing of the marines. It genuinely has nothing to do with the dwarfs development or anything, complaining about their character is actually getting off trail here. I don't see how it's possibly pointless.

Things "having a point" and "having no point" isn't really a thing that can be argued, and well...it had a point. Everyone was just wondering why the marines collapsed last chapter, and now they have their answer.

Saying Luffy encountering Fugitora as "dragging out" is pointless too, since, uh, it has a purpose too. And the chapter didn't really have much panel space to continue it. Unless you mean because he does something 'big' every 100th chapter, and he's stalling it out until than, but these things have purpose and meaning.

ゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴロゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Aug 29, 2015 5:49 PM

#116

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Jun 2011

13762

Isterio said:
Which inlcudes everyone who discusses here including you.

Hence why I said I wouldn't bother anymore, because there is no point.

ashfrliebert said:
Sometimes, things could've been solved in a chapter or two but went on for more, doesn't make it pointless--but it is dragging it out.;

I was mainly addressing the "drag out for 100 chapters Dressrosa arc" thing. Things can of course be dragged by itself, but mostly is because there are things in the chapter people would rather not see, which doesn't mean that it is dragged. This is Oda's style we've been following for years, the fodder marines' small talk, the useless panels used for transitioning, etc., they are there since the very beginning. Anyone complained about marine's reaction to Whitebeard's showcase of his power during the MF war? Well if they even remembered that part that is, which supports my point, that in a marathon, you would likely to notice these things lesser.

ashfrliebert said:
Not so much for "dragging" it out as much as "I don't care about these things because I want the arc to end".

Exactly!

ashfrliebert said:
Saying Luffy encountering Fugitora as "dragging out" is pointless too, since, uh, it has a purpose too.

Believe it or not, I have seen people saying that, which boggles my mind.

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Aug 29, 2015 5:59 PM

#117

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Jun 2012

1347

@animeBee1ver

Well, say that if you will, but I've never seen any series that suddenly changes targeted audiences, unless it's a parody like Samurai Flamenco or something. Gore and sex do not equate to maturity, and the fact also remains that the story in One Piece has matured in a sensible manner that matches the pacing of the series... it would just feel out of place if it just up and changed from an uplifting series about a happy-go-lucky and over-confident pirate, into a dark series about an emo crusader on a path of vengeance across the seas over the loss of his brother or something along those lines.

Yeah... I've read this series over too many times to count, and I can't think of a single time he did that before the time-skip. If you can let me know... unless you count Little Garden where he found out they'd been fighting for so long without any reason and was instantly all fired up when that was interrupted. But every single other time Luffy was just like "I don't give a fuck... just tell me you want my help." He was never privy to all those things we learned in flashbacks.

Okay then.

I didn't say all... but I know from experience that it is most. I've never had my brother's heart ripped open on top of me, but I've definitely seen my fair share of death. Had a friend who had his spine snapped in two at a football game, and friends who killed themselves, and friends who've seen much worse than I have and I wouldn't say I'm too fucked up. Bad things happen, and any strong person moves on, and makes the best out of a shitty situation. But for the most part, people don't change themselves... it's others who do it for them. I'd imagine if Usopp suddenly went insane and murdered Sanji, that would be a situation that would change Luffy... not losing something he cares deeply for just because yet another shitty person wants to take what he has going for him away from him.

As to why you should bother, that's for you to decide.

@Isterio

I mean... I don't really care what some other person that I've never heard of on an entirely different site had to say, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

More importantly, you think because he's fighting gladiators in a colosseum instead of giant fish that's it's no longer an adventure? Aside from the fact that there were giant fish in the colosseum, and he rode a bull in there (I mean dinosaur... bull... what's the difference?)... the "adventure" is defined as "an exciting or unusual experience. And, as far as I know, Luffy's never fought in a colosseum before. And I mean he's also in a foreign land with miniature sized people and formerly toy inhabitants.

I have to say, I've seen lots of things I never saw before throughout the entire course of this arc. So yes, I would say it's adventurous to go to a new place, and enter a giant colosseum and fight all sorts of rogues and warriors... and I also would consider it an adventure running around said foreign land and continuing to do and see new things.

Again... I have little care for what someone I don't even know has once said. And I'm sure as hell not gonna go watching all his videos just to get an opinion on him.

Nonetheless, I don't like the term "Goda" myself, and I think it's trollish to throw it around like it means something.

Well, like GoG25thBaam perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I didn't say I don't care what others think, I said I don't care whether or not they like something or not. I've got lots of friends who don't like some of my other friends, it doesn't mean I don't think either of said friends have flaws.

I wouldn't argue about whether or not One Piece has flaws... because that would be pointless. Flaws to some people may not be flaws to others, therefore being flawed is a matter of opinion. I do however argue facts... and if someone says something that isn't true then I'm going to point that out... I'm not interested in if people like One Piece... not everyone will, but I'm not gonna stay silent if I see someone starting false rumors.

Of course Oda makes mistakes... he's human after all. But in light of what I just said... you'll have to show me some facts to make me believe that there has been anything in One Piece that contradicted something else. Show me one thing that breaks the physical laws of One Piece? There've been plenty of screw-ups such as drawing the wrong scar on on a person, sure, but that isn't a contradiction, it's a "typo" if you will.

HalibelTheEspadaAug 29, 2015 6:12 PM

Aug 29, 2015 6:37 PM

#118

Offline

May 2015

2360

ToG25thBaam said:
]I was mainly addressing the "drag out for 100 chapters Dressrosa arc" thing. Things can of course be dragged by itself, but mostly is because there are things in the chapter people would rather not see, which doesn't mean that it is dragged. This is Oda's style we've been following for years, the fodder marines' small talk, the useless panels used for transitioning, etc., they are there since the very beginning. Anyone complained about marine's reaction to Whitebeard's showcase of his power during the MF war? Well if they even remembered that part that is, which supports my point, that in a marathon, you would likely to notice these things lesser.

True, but in all honesty, these events I'd argue were even more important than the ones you mentioned. We have plenty more to possibly wrap-up too. I doubt they'll all be wrapped up, since the arc already suffers from too many plot threads.

The marine fainted last(one before?) chapter and the reason was shown in this one. I understand the fodder talk, but the fodder are important in this case-or rather they have importance because of the dwarves. The dwarves have been important since the beginning(of the arc), he introduces these things, so he has to wrap 'some' of them up.

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Aug 29, 2015 7:13 PM

#119

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Jun 2011

13762

ashfrliebert said:
True, but in all honesty, these events I'd argue were even more important than the ones you mentioned. We have plenty more to possibly wrap-up too. I doubt they'll all be wrapped up, since the arc already suffers from too many plot threads.

I don't think those are really necessary though. He said that it is his personal wish, but I'll address some.

- Doffy is already down, as Law said, he has taken revenge for Corazon, and as Sengoku said to Law, to go live his own life, not bounded by the revenge plot, not hanging onto the past, to live his life in current time. Indicating that he will be putting Doffy behind now. It's over.

- I don't see why this is necessary. Even better if they don't do it. Sengoku and Law right now have a special bond, where only the 2 of them could talk to each other about Rocinante. Nobody else know about him, because he's undercover. That should be sufficient. Rocinante didn't do so for acknowledgement.

- This is also the same case. Rebecca wants to leave all the status that restrict her behind. She is now free to live where ever she wants with her dad. She doesn't want to be the head figure of the country, it's just not very Rebecca-ish. I prefer them to stay under.

- 4 main royals? Riku, Violet, Rebecca, and Kyros? Already addressed that above.

- This could happen, I wouldn't mind this actually. That'd be interesting but seeing as where the story is heading right now (leaving the island), I doubt we will go back to the country again. Shame but it is what it is.

- This could be great too.

- Not necessary I'd say on the dwarfs behalf. A reason could work, but I'd like to keep it as a 'fairy tale' sort of thing. They just do it just because. I think it is one of those things that make the One Piece world more 'magical'.

- Colosseum doesn't even need to exist anymore.

- Could work in a cover page story.

- Could work.

- This will definitely be addressed sooner or later. Inb4 Bellamy joining the strawhats tho LOL.

- Hold the marines off? Depends on how Luffy will act from now on.

- This will certainly be shown, either in the main story or the cover page. This is also unrelated to Dressrosa, so nothing to be wrapped up there.

But the thing is, I feel that we're already past the affair of Dressrosa at this point, it's now about Luffy's escape / confrontation with Fujitora. I'd like to see some of what he mentioned happen, but I don't see it happening in the main story right now.

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Aug 29, 2015 9:27 PM

#120

Ganbat

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Apr 2011

1011

I was so happy that this arc finished. I was idiot.

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Aug 29, 2015 11:29 PM

#121

FirstEel

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Jul 2014

237

I love the plot-armor complaint that people always seem to have. Yep, why don't we let the main character die, or how about we make them fight more weak people cause 700+ chapters haven't been enough for him to be strong yet. You guys should really consider writing your own stuff I bet it'll be fantastic.

Aug 30, 2015 12:10 AM

#122

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Jun 2013

1727

FirstEel said:
I love the plot-armor complaint that people always seem to have. Yep, why don't we let the main character die, or how about we make them fight more weak people cause 700+ chapters haven't been enough for him to be strong yet. You guys should really consider writing your own stuff I bet it'll be fantastic.

But he won't fight Fujitora... they'll escape somehow. Even if he did (just for the sake of a debate), Fujitora is in a better shape than him... Luffy had one of his hardest battles, so he has to be tired, while Fujitora didn't do much this arc, so Luffy shouldn't be able to win.

Aug 30, 2015 3:12 AM

#123

stickermans50

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Dec 2014

274

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY BETTER THAN THE LAST CHAPTER! :D Hopefully, Luffy and Fuji-chan fight in 799 and Fujitora or someone reveals a bit about D. in 800! Really wanna know wtf Luffy's name means. XD

Thinking.....

Aug 30, 2015 6:10 AM

#124

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Jun 2012

1347

metsujin said:

FirstEel said:
I love the plot-armor complaint that people always seem to have. Yep, why don't we let the main character die, or how about we make them fight more weak people cause 700+ chapters haven't been enough for him to be strong yet. You guys should really consider writing your own stuff I bet it'll be fantastic.

But he won't fight Fujitora... they'll escape somehow. Even if he did (just for the sake of a debate), Fujitora is in a better shape than him... Luffy had one of his hardest battles, so he has to be tired, while Fujitora didn't do much this arc, so Luffy shouldn't be able to win.

That's not plot armor though... that's just plot. Plot armor would be having his balls cut off, and then somehow having them re-attached and having children later.

Would you rather he just ran away per-usual and nothing ever happened... that he just walked by him and they just plainly left and the admiral just somehow failed to prevent them from slipping right past him? Or for Luffy to actually be able to just mop the floor with him?

Personally I'd be pretty disappointed if Fujitora wasn't capable of at least blocking his path. It's just as likely for Fuji to kill Luffy if he tried to just run right past him, as it would be if Luffy goes toe-to-toe with him... probably even more likely.

Aug 30, 2015 6:28 AM

#125

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Jun 2013

1727

HalibelTheEspada said:
That's not plot armor though... that's just plot. Plot armor would be having his balls cut off, and then somehow having them re-attached and having children later.

Would you rather he just ran away per-usual and nothing ever happened... that he just walked by him and they just plainly left and the admiral just somehow failed to prevent them from slipping right past him? Or for Luffy to actually be able to just mop the floor with him?

Personally I'd be pretty disappointed if Fujitora wasn't capable of at least blocking his path. It's just as likely for Fuji to kill Luffy if he tried to just run right past him, as it would be if Luffy goes toe-to-toe with him... probably even more likely.

I never said it's plot armor lol because we know they'll escape somehow... It would be stupid if Fujitora decides to let them go based on a gamble (how he did in the previous chapter).

In this situation the smartest think is to retreat, I get why Luffy said that and I understand him, I just don't agree with him....

He will stop them, I mean eventually they'll escape, it won't be easy for sure, but they will somehow, again hope it won't be some 'gamble' thing.

Aug 30, 2015 3:11 PM

#126

Genix

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Aug 2008

1368

KilluaX4 said:

Stark700 said:
THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Ooh this is getting exciting. Luffy about to fight one of the Emperors. Good lucky because he's going to need it. Can't wait for next time.

One of the Emperors?

Sleep deprived, or just trying to sound relevant for a first post snipe (as it's often the case).

Eh, with Luffy wheezing the way he is, I can't expect an epic showdown. Most likely, Zoro or someone else will come, make a distraction and an unconscious Luffy will be dragged away.

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Aug 30, 2015 7:56 PM

#127

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Jun 2012

1347

metsujin said:
I never said it's plot armor lol because we know they'll escape somehow... It would be stupid if Fujitora decides to let them go based on a gamble (how he did in the previous chapter).

In this situation the smartest think is to retreat, I get why Luffy said that and I understand him, I just don't agree with him....

He will stop them, I mean eventually they'll escape, it won't be easy for sure, but they will somehow, again hope it won't be some 'gamble' thing.

Oh my mistake, I assumed by the post you responded to that you were defending it as plot-armor. Sorry about that, in that case.

I sort of agree that it would be the best strategy to fun, but like Luffy says they can't just keep running from them... if they are still too weak to take on an Admiral, then their 2 year training was a bit of a waste, since that's why they were separated in the first place.

Not to say I really think this is going to end up with a defeat on either side here, but I'm not sure it's going to be so simple this time.

Genix said:
Eh, with Luffy wheezing the way he is, I can't expect an epic showdown. Most likely, Zoro or someone else will come, make a distraction and an unconscious Luffy will be dragged away.

Honestly, I don't feel like it's just going to be a repeat of the fight against Aokiji like that. I'm not really sure what will happen here... but I don't feel like it's just going to be as simple as someone causing a distraction or anything like that.

I can't really think of many alternatives though... except maybe Fujitora will get a call about something that's even more important than this. But of course, I suppose nothing else could be when capturing Luffy is what his career teeters on.

I don't really know, just feel like something a little more unexpected will happen.

Aug 31, 2015 1:06 AM

#128

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Jun 2013

1727

HalibelTheEspada said:

metsujin said:
I never said it's plot armor lol because we know they'll escape somehow... It would be stupid if Fujitora decides to let them go based on a gamble (how he did in the previous chapter).

In this situation the smartest think is to retreat, I get why Luffy said that and I understand him, I just don't agree with him....

He will stop them, I mean eventually they'll escape, it won't be easy for sure, but they will somehow, again hope it won't be some 'gamble' thing.

Oh my mistake, I assumed by the post you responded to that you were defending it as plot-armor. Sorry about that, in that case.

I sort of agree that it would be the best strategy to fun, but like Luffy says they can't just keep running from them... if they are still too weak to take on an Admiral, then their 2 year training was a bit of a waste, since that's why they were separated in the first place.

Not to say I really think this is going to end up with a defeat on either side here, but I'm not sure it's going to be so simple this time.

I should explain myself better?? Or not... you just misinterpreted.

The problem I have with him fighting Fujitora now, is that he is tired from his previous fight... and they won't have a fight, we know, again this is just a "What if..." kinda situation, Luffy should not be able to win if they did fight, that's what I was going for.

He did train, and to some extend I think he will take out a admiral later on, but he needs to be in a good shape to do so, because these people are not some walk in the park.

And he trained to be stronger, and not let anyone ever die... talking about his comrades of course, but in order to do that he needs to keep himself alive first, he also needs to think about himself, his health.

Aug 31, 2015 2:42 AM

#129

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Jun 2011

13762

metsujin said:
The problem I have with him fighting Fujitora now, is that he is tired from his previous fight... and they won't have a fight, we know, again this is just a "What if..." kinda situation, Luffy should not be able to win if they did fight, that's what I was going for.

We don't actually know. Luffy seems to be dead on taking on Fujitora. Even if the story demands them to leave, we still don't know. Oda could throw a curve anytime he wants. Shabaody didn't end with all of them escaping.

But of course, I would agree on that Luffy still couldn't beat an admiral, not in his exhausted state. That is why I say we'll see. This situation doesn't benefit him in any way or form right now, we can only wait for the next chapter, for his (or Oda's) true intention.

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Aug 31, 2015 6:09 AM

#130

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Jun 2013

1727

ToG25thBaam said:

metsujin said:
The problem I have with him fighting Fujitora now, is that he is tired from his previous fight... and they won't have a fight, we know, again this is just a "What if..." kinda situation, Luffy should not be able to win if they did fight, that's what I was going for.

We don't actually know. Luffy seems to be dead on taking on Fujitora. Even if the story demands them to leave, we still don't know. Oda could throw a curve anytime he wants. Shabaody didn't end with all of them escaping.

But of course, I would agree on that Luffy still couldn't beat an admiral, not in his exhausted state. That is why I say we'll see. This situation doesn't benefit him in any way or form right now, we can only wait for the next chapter, for his (or Oda's) true intention.

He is, which is not a bad thing, the bad thing is that he is exhausted from the fight with Doffy, I get why he's doing that... but he needs to think, he needs to understand that there are sometimes when you must retreat, most of the time Luffy did this regardless of his opponent, he'll try to fight. He tried to fight Aokiji even tho he was waaaaaay above Luffy's league at the time. He struggled the most in Shabaody which was nice. Now how will Oda handle this, we'll see...

Aug 31, 2015 8:14 AM

#131

SenorPink

Offline

Feb 2015

53

metsujin said:

ToG25thBaam said:

We don't actually know. Luffy seems to be dead on taking on Fujitora. Even if the story demands them to leave, we still don't know. Oda could throw a curve anytime he wants. Shabaody didn't end with all of them escaping.

But of course, I would agree on that Luffy still couldn't beat an admiral, not in his exhausted state. That is why I say we'll see. This situation doesn't benefit him in any way or form right now, we can only wait for the next chapter, for his (or Oda's) true intention.

He is, which is not a bad thing, the bad thing is that he is exhausted from the fight with Doffy, I get why he's doing that... but he needs to think, he needs to understand that there are sometimes when you must retreat, most of the time Luffy did this regardless of his opponent, he'll try to fight. He tried to fight Aokiji even tho he was waaaaaay above Luffy's league at the time. He struggled the most in Shabaody which was nice. Now how will Oda handle this, we'll see...

Luffy already rested for 5 or 6 days after the Doflamingo disaster and was eating ,sleeping, talking for quite a bit already.It's not like Luffy hasn't over exhausted his body as much as he did against Lucci, Impel Down, or Marineford.Luffy also barely got any rest after getting stomped by Crocodile 2 times already and still went all out more so than before.

Luffy fought Aokiji because he was about to kill Robin just a moment ago and he could literally freeze the ocean before they could leave.I don't know what you expected them to do at that point.Running away at that specific moment would be pointless.

Luffy's speech this chapter is already a counter argument to your statement.They've been running away for a long ass time even before The getting outclassed in Saobondy were introduced like at Alabasta,Loguetown, Enies Lobby.Trying to teach him some thing he already knows is repetitive and pointless.

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Aug 31, 2015 8:37 AM

#132

Offline

Jun 2013

1727

SenorPink said:
Luffy already rested for 5 or 6 days after the Doflamingo disaster and was eating ,sleeping, talking for quite a bit already.It's not like Luffy hasn't over exhausted his body as much as he did against Lucci, Impel Down, or Marineford.Luffy also barely got any rest after getting stomped by Crocodile 2 times already and still went all out more so than before.

Luffy fought Aokiji because he was about to kill Robin just a moment ago and he could literally freeze the ocean before they could leave.I don't know what you expected them to do at that point.Running away at that specific moment would be pointless.

Luffy's speech this chapter is already a counter argument to your statement.They've been running away for a long ass time even before The getting outclassed in Saobondy were introduced like at Alabasta,Loguetown, Enies Lobby.Trying to teach him some thing he already knows is repetitive and pointless.

When did almost a week passed since he defeated Doffy? Barely 1-2 days passed since that fight. After Lucci if you remember the Thriller Bark arc, he's pain, stress, fatigue got extracted by Kuma so any of that disappeared after that arc. Impel Down and Marineford he had Ivankov with him, and he injected him with that weird technique.

He never ran from anything except for Shabaody he always took the risk. And if you remember Luffy wanted to fight Aokiji, yes he wanted to take Robin, but he didn't back down at first and they had that little spar. Now either Luffy thought he would win probably, we can argue that he did it to protect his nakama too and Aokiji left and stopped chasing them.

Aug 31, 2015 11:35 AM

#133