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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- Quite surprised to not see a topic of the grand finale. I must say - the manga was brilliant. The story, the art, the characters - even in our days one can only be awed by such a classical masterpiece. It's one of those classics which don't age - the art is great, it has specific style, but it's very clean and you can understand every small detail you see(although it's not too detailed). It's usually a problem with old manga to understand what actually happens due to worse quality, but this is totally not a problem in Ashita no Joe. I can see someone not liking the style of art itself, but it's realy a matter of taste there. Story is very emotional - we see highs and lows of Joe's life, who started from zero and going all the way to the world rankings of boxing, seeing all the hardships he has to face and never faltering, always sticking stubbornly to the way he is. The story just drags you in and doesn't let go until you are actually finished reading. The only one big flaw I had is - the low amount of matches Joe made through his pro boxing life up to world rankings. It's not like you can't get up to world rankings fast, it's just that Joe did it WAY too fast, especially his amount of losses would make his score seem so so, since he didn't have many matches to begin with. This could be filled with some time skip, but I can see author's reasons not to as well- it's about Joe's personality who rushes towards his goal and author's way of making a perfectly linear story. You can barely see any flashbacks or time skips - the story flows so smoothly that you can barely even notice you are reading next volume already. Now for the ending - simply brilliant way to end it, last chapter was both packed in action and nostalgia of Joe's past(I have realy been waiting for him to use some of his old techniques, realy glad author didn't just drop it off) At the same time we had a conclusion of a battle that sure gave most of us a strong heartbeat. I can certainly see people hate the ending if they like happy end's, but as for me - that's the best outcome I could ever hope for. The moment author captured for the final page is spot on - I guess Joe was happy in his last moments, he burned his spirit until not even ashes remained and fulfilled his dream. Quoting Faust - 'stay, thou art so beautiful', it's as if Joe calls the devil himself to take him at the moment he longed for. Ashita no Joe - a classic amongst classics, a must read sport genre manga which paved the road to many popular titles, Hajime no Ippo included. It's rare for me to tell it - but it's a must read despite your tastes, it won't let you disappointed for sure. It's not without it's own flaws, as I mentioned, but I stopped struggling and gave it a 10 - not only it's a classic, which is older than most of the manga readers here - it's also a great read even today, which can't be told about many manga's from 80's and lower due to variety of reasons. Ending easily tipped the scales in favour of giving it a 10/10. |
| I finally completed Joe and I understand why this manga is a classic. The art is simple and beautiful, the story is interesting. The last fight was incredible and I think that the ending, although it is a little sad, is perfect like that. RIP Yabuki Joe |
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Redmyr said: I finally completed Joe and I understand why this manga is a classic. The art is simple and beautiful, the story is interesting. The last fight was incredible and I think that the ending, although it is a little sad, is perfect like that. RIP Yabuki Joe I think the ending is meant to be ambiguous, he might not have died. Note that Joe is facing the left on the last page the way you would normally read manga. The point is that Joe was always looking forward, he's Tomorrow's Joe! |
| I remember Joe ;_; |
Hentaicheg said: Now for the ending - simply brilliant way to end it, last chapter was both packed in action and nostalgia of Joe's past(I have realy been waiting for him to use some of his old techniques, realy glad author didn't just drop it off) At the same time we had a conclusion of a battle that sure gave most of us a strong heartbeat. I can certainly see people hate the ending if they like happy end's, but as for me - that's the best outcome I could ever hope for. The moment author captured for the final page is spot on - I guess Joe was happy in his last moments, he burned his spirit until not even ashes remained and fulfilled his dream. Oh I disagree with this. I just finished reading and the ending dissapointed me. Not because of what happened (since I already predicted it would happen after the Rikishi thing) but -how- it ended. I felt like the two last fights were terrible in comparison with Rikishi and Carlos. While I get that Joe feeling "meh" during the last arc was done intentionally by the author, I think that carried on too much, and, IMO, carried on until the very last page which felt underwhelming. I never saw him truly leaving that state. Still, I can't disagree with it being a pretty good manga. |
Hentaicheg said: Oh I disagree with this. I just finished reading and the ending dissapointed me. Not because of what happened (since I already predicted it would happen after the Rikishi thing) but -how- it ended. I felt like the two last fights were terrible in comparison with Rikishi and Carlos. While I get that Joe feeling "meh" during the last arc was done intentionally by the author, I think that carried on too much, and, IMO, carried on until the very last page which felt underwhelming. I never saw him truly leaving that state. Still, I can't disagree with it being a pretty good manga. I agree that the Harimau fight was kind of shit, but I really did like the Mendoza fight a lot. Although I think the fights themselves were never the strong point of Ashita no Joe in the first place, given that the things I always love about the series are the character moments inbetween each fight, which is part of the reason I prefer the anime adaptations a bit more since they expand on those portions of the story so much (Thank you based Dezaki god). But even so, I think the final fight does a great job at characterizing Jose Mendoza who we only really knew was a high-strung family man who leans a little on the racist side given that he insults Joe by calling him a "Yellow Sheep". But in this fight we see his compassion towards his opponents (Who he no doubt most likely kills a lot of given how strong he is) when he tries to call off the fight after noticing Joe's condition and we also see how much he's afraid of being hurt in the ring since he has a family to return to. Both of these I feel end up making Joe's dismantling of him a little heartbreaking. Watching Joe struggle against Mendoza also hurt given the desperation of the entire fight, although I kind of wish there was a bit more to it than that, which the anime delivered for me by giving a little more story to what exactly was going to down in Joe's mind during the fight. |
| Wow, this was great. Really enjoyed it. My favourite part was the beginning and everything at juvie. But all of the opponents and fights after it were still great. The only one I didn't like was Harimau, he just felt to cartoony and unrealistic. I did like the whole last fight against Mendoza and it was a great ending that did fit with the rest of the story. Joe's flashback conversation with Noriko also enhanced it. However, I really didn't like how the female characters were written, with Yoko being the best example.There was really no need for her to be in love with Joe, and her big moment was just cheering him on. Overall, it was a great experience and it's easy to see how this is considered a classic. |
Manganatic said: Fantalicious said: However, I really didn't like how the female characters were written, with Yoko being the best example.There was really no need for her to be in love with Joe, and her big moment was just cheering him on. What is the problem with Yoko? Given the subtle developments from very early on, it is sort of natural that it happens in the end. That makes her cheering more dramatic (seeing the man she loves fighting towards his possible end). Having a female antagonist fall in love with the main character is an old cliché. It completely undermines her character that her arc is all about Joe and her feelings for him. And as I said, her big moment in the story is just cheering for Joe, so once again, it's all about him. She could have been an interesting character in her own right and done something that actually mattered in the end, but the story doesn't let her. |
Manganatic said: Fantalicious said: Having a female antagonist fall in love with the main character is an old cliché. It completely undermines her character that her arc is all about Joe and her feelings for him. And as I said, her big moment in the story is just cheering for Joe, so once again, it's all about him. She could have been an interesting character in her own right and done something that actually mattered in the end, but the story doesn't let her. Well, it's a matter of opinion, I don't consider her a typical antagonist. Joe was antagonistic towards her in the beginning because of her "rich bitch" appearance. I believe that she only appeared that way because she never encountered someone like Joe, and the story is all about how Joe's character and Joe's boxing changed that. I think she started to take interest in Joe ever since the boxing match in Juvie which was only their third encounter (in the manga). Afterwards, she made excuses for all her actions hiding her real thoughts, and these caused their later conflicts. Therefore, I wouldn't say she's an antagonist for most of the story. If she is a supporter behind the scene and even evolved close to obsession in the later story, I think it is inevitable that she would fall in love. That said, her falling in love is only a side product which adds more drama. A side point is that at least in the manga world, I don't think it should be called cliché. Afterall, it is almost 50 years old, and they can't envision that 30, 40 years later, there would be so many "rich bitch" harem main heroines, etc. Of course, this is not an important point to this discussion. Yes, as you said, it is a matter of opinion. I don't really disagree with anything you just said, it's just that I don't like the way it was written in the story, whilst you do. I would however say that she acts as an antagonist even after she probably has fallen for him, but she definitely isn't a typical antagonist. |
| So I finally finished this "must to read" manga and im quite...dissapointed? So i know what Ashita no Joe made to the industry of manga, I know it inspired many manga artist but im not gonna try to say it doesnt deserve his fame im just gonna say why im dissapointed as in my opinion First theres a little thing that kindda piss me off and is how Joe starts to gain weight and he starts a really hard diet to almost dehidrating himself he barely passes the test, after the fight theres no more mention of his weight, he is fine again not worrying about dieting or whatever and its like ¿?¿? but ok thats not why im dissapointed its just something i found silly What im dissapointed is that people sold me this manga saying it was more about characters than boxing, seeing Joe develop but after finishing i ask, in what aspect does Joe develop? because he is the same since the beginning to the end, sure as a boxer he is more "mature" but as a person? He still treats his manager like shit (Something i was hoping by the end he showed some kind of respect) and the girl always with mysogynist coments and my favorite quote "You deserve some beating" i mean???? I know its a 60's manga but wow Joe must be the "Hero" yet i couldnt bring to have some affection for him, he didnt develop at all as a person....Appart from that, i enjoyed it and love the end though sadly i didnt feel sad at all. |
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| I really loved this manga. The only things I didn't really like what this Harimau guy, his abilites felt to unrealistic for this manga and overall his "personality" was too over the top. |
| 'And so, he fell as he lived, in the battlefield. Fighting for what he lived for, which was death' This manga is a well-deserved classic, in fact, it may be the best I've ever read. It almost has everything I could wish for and I've been able to read 'between the lines' throughout most of the comic book, seeing its themes, characters, structure etc. Tl;dr Automatic and round 10/10 That said, Harimau should have been introduced earlier in the manga, I agree with the guy above, he seems too weird for this story. Besides, what was with Joe 'recovering his savagery'? It's not like he used it much during the last fight, he just held on to himself like he always has. But I can omit that, this wonderful story deserves it to be that way. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| "And when it's over, only white ashes remain." Joe you will live in my heart forever. |
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| The last volume is one of the most intense things I've ever read or seen. This series is truly amazing, I'd say it’s a masterpiece, I loved it from the start to the end. |
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| even tho I found flaws in the manga I am crying rn at this ending it was undoubtedly beautiful. Thank you Joe. |
| wow. this was amazing, an epic tale concluded. Honestly Joe's death is very heartbreaking, though he did have a good conclusion, he was able to burn all those white ashes. the GOAT tragic hero, his character journey throughout was great too IMO i have the carlos arc at #1 of the series, wolf at #2, and Rikiishi at #3. (mendoza at #4) one of my favorite manga now |
| I dont know, i didnt liked the ending. It was painful to read it. Its almost gore to see he destructing himself cause the author wanted. Joe has a really unrealistic personality. No ones knows about his past, parents, and the author never said anything about it. He losing the fight was obvious since he was punched much more than medonza, but medonza wining was horrible, i wish he had a plan for destroying medonza, that dementia thing was not a good idea in my opinion, also Joe obsession with being a Bantamweight(thats the name?) it was really bad, he should accepted his fate and went to Lightweight(59.0–61.2 kg). That made my unlike Joe even more, how can he be so dumb? How the hell he cant see that Rikishi being underweight was a mistake, and learning from his friend's mistakes? And for me at least, makes zero sense for he having zero interest in girls, since he was a teenager(in this universe teenagers can fight boxe on world ranking, yeah), and his hormones should be working. another thing that made my angry, was no one realizing even judges, about Carlos using his elbows on his fight??? Carlos was the reason that Joe began to be brain damaged. I would believe this bullshit if in the universe of Ashita no Joe, there were no slow motion replays, but they exist. And the author really wants me to believe that it would be possible for him to cheat like that? I understand why few people talk about ashita no joe, the fights are good but the protagonist is an asshole, misogynist, troglodyte and unlikable most of the time. and the plot is incoherent in its second part. 6/10 cause the ending was unsatisfying |
| Weird time for a nap Joe :') |
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