Kuroshitsuji: Book of Circus Episode 7 Discussion

lament-flower said:


It hasn't been explained fully yet. You'll see why soon enough, most likely in the next episode.

Shadowwolfcat said:
For crying out loud, why are you all putting the blame on Joker for following the Baron? This episode should have been enough to explain all of Joker's reasons to stay and obey him. Allow me to clarify all of them in a simple manner.

Reasons why Joker endures the pain of serving the crazy lord:

1. The circus

As stated in previous episodes, Baron Kelvin is the patron of Noah's Arc circus. In other words, he is the financial support needed for the circus to keep going.
This was a solid fact in the past, however, Beast stated in her private conversation with Joker before his departure that the circus can now make due on its own, which begs the question "Does the circus still require the Baron's aid?".
In my opinion, it does, due to the high number of performers, animals, props that will eventually require repair and so on (not to mention a certain someone that is tied to both the Baron and the circus). Even if the circus has a high income, I don't believe it would be enough to keep everyone well-fed and dressed all the time, thus the money from the philanthropist is required.

2. The children at the workshop

In this episode there was a scene in which Baron Kelvin indirectly threatens Joker that if he would not obey him, the children at the workshop would not be treated as kindly as they have been. The workshop is where Joker and co. were taken to when they were first picked up from the streets of East End, in order to be fitted with and get used to their new artificial limbs. Having been there himself, Joker fears what can happen to those, who have already suffered too much in the slums.
(This will play an important part in breaking some hearts later, depending on whether or not the studio does the ending correctly.)

3. Parental need and respect

Joker thinks of Baron Kelvin as the one and only adult, who offered him kindness. Having been abandoned due to being born without an arm, he did not know what parental love was until Kelvin came along and picked him and his friends off of the street.
Albeit this information hasn't been shown in dept in the anime, it is obvious after knowing that Joker was an orphan under the wing of a philanthropist.
This being said, opposing him would be the same as you opposing your parents, however, in his situation the fear of being abandoned is painfully strong. This fear is not unreasonable, since Joker sees how easily the baron toys with human lives. It doesn't have to do with him being simply afraid, rather, it's due to his traumatizing past and wishing for everyone else's safety that he continues obeying the lunatic that was once a caring father to him.
If you think about it, it is quite similar to Stockholm syndrome, although Joker himself never got beaten by the Baron.


Please, don't use the card "but you've read the manga" on me, because it's not impossible to reach these conclusions by watching the anime carefully.

Inugirlz said:

reason #2 seems a little off to me though because last time i checked the baron is an old man in a wheelchair while Joker and the circus members are all young athletic badasses who can assassinate like no tomorrow. If they really cared about the hostages they would simply save them. wtf is wheelchair man gonna do about it?

but obviously this is an anime and it's meant for entertainment purposes and it's not real life. But you can't defend Joker's character. He's in the fault just as much as that old man. In fact he's worse cuz he actually SUPPLIES the kids to him and then does nothing about it while feeling guilty. I like Joker but only when he's far away from these evil things being happy go lucky in the circus and when i see him feel guilty cuz at least i know he's not some sadist.

If this happened in real life could u still ask why people would blame Joker? Please! Beast was trying to offer him and everyone a way out and he shot her down. What do they plan to do? live this way forever? Evil is turning a blind eye to the 'other' (the kids in this case). and that's exactly what Joker's doing.

kelken said:



How would they save them? Kill the Baron and return a bunch of doped up, traumatized, kidnapped kids to their parents under cover of night? Cool, now you've got a hundred future sociopaths on the loose.

Or kill the Baron then try to support 100 doped up, traumatized, kidnapped kids on a 3-ring budget. Nah

Even if the Baron was arrested, he could easily lay the blame on Joker and Co. since they did the actual kidnapping

It's all psychological manipulation and these things do happen in real life (like Stockholm syndrome for example, child prostitution, sweatshops and tons of cases on Discovery ID). It's too easy to say "he could just..." from the outside, that's oversimplifying the situation.

*I think some of the kids left at the workhouse are siblings of some of the circus members too (not sure where I got that from though), makes the web a little more sticky. Beast's way out was "forget the kids, let's run away together" which Joker was not going to do.

Inugirlz said:


Please they have many options, obviously its not just black and white and they can't do some grand rescue but it's still better than what they're doing now. If they had any true sympathy they would stop him. 1 they could stop the kidnapping altogether or save the kids BEFORE they got doped up and 2 even after they're doped up returning them home is still better than abandoning them. if your child was kidnapped and this happened to them are you telling me you wouldn't want them back and would prefer to let them be played around with as toys until they died miserable deaths?

And they don't have to actually kill the baron to save the kids either. I don't expect them to be able to do that since he is their saviour.

No one said saving people would be easy but its better than continuing what they're doing in guilt.

Shadowwolfcat said:

Oh boy, I wonder how people will be defending Ciel when the end of this arc comes. -.-
I'm sure all the fans will be defending him all over the place, while Joke here's getting a hard time.
Allow me to only say, before we put a "fin" to it, that when you are psychologically manipulated, all those "many options" are nowhere in sight. In this case, kudos to Beast for breaking from that "spell" so similar to the Stockholm syndrome.

In the end, when something wrong has been done, everybody's guilty.
"It's not only the child's fault for eating the whole cake. The one, who gave the whole cake to the child, is also to blame", as they say.
Joke is indeed guilty in his own way, but in this case the Baron's fault is clearly greater. This being said, don't blame Joker without considering his circumstances.

Shadowwolfcat said:


Oh boy, I wonder how people will be defending Ciel when the end of this arc comes. -.-
I'm sure all the fans will be defending him all over the place, while Joke here's getting a hard time.
Allow me to only say, before we put a "fin" to it, that when you are psychologically manipulated, all those "many options" are nowhere in sight. In this case, kudos to Beast for breaking from that "spell" so similar to the Stockholm syndrome.

In the end, when something wrong has been done, everybody's guilty.
"It's not only the child's fault for eating the whole cake. The one, who gave the whole cake to the child, is also to blame", as they say.
Joke is indeed guilty in his own way, but in this case the Baron's fault is clearly greater. This being said, don't blame Joker without considering his circumstances.

Inugirlz said:


Oh well the arc isn't done and I didn't read the manga so I don't know the full story yet. But if they're doing it because they've actually been brainwashed that is a different story and more forgiving. (Although such things don't happen so flawlessly in real life...I think)