| Hello. I have two questions I would like to ask of you all. First, how is it that Archer in the 5th Holy Grail Wars the future self of Shirou Emiya? I thought the servants were all heroes of legend from the past, summoned in the Holy Grail Wars as servants to compete in the Holy Grail Wars. Shirou is not an epic hero, as it is apparent that he is no more than an orphaned boy with an adopted dream of becoming a hero, like his adoptive father. Is there something I am missing or not understanding? Second, many times in both Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero, we are told that only servants can defeat each other, and masters cannot defeat servants. If this is true, then how is it that Shirou can even fight against himself, let alone Gilgamesh? Is he more than human? How can he be stronger than Gilgamesh, the eldest of all heroes, and defeat him? How can he even replicate his Gate of Babylon when in Fate/Stay Night, he could barely project a proper sword? Thank you, in advance, for answering my questions. |
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| Watch the 2014 series and find out. Since it is a 20 something episode series it should go into much more detail. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: Watch the 2014 series and find out. Since it is a 20 something episode series it should go into much more detail. Is it out already? I've kept hearing about it but everyone's been saying "it's coming" instead of "it's out now". |
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MeiMisaki1525 said: insan3Spectre said: Watch the 2014 series and find out. Since it is a 20 something episode series it should go into much more detail. Is it out already? I've kept hearing about it but everyone's been saying "it's coming" instead of "it's out now". November, I believe. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: MeiMisaki1525 said: Is it out already? I've kept hearing about it but everyone's been saying "it's coming" instead of "it's out now". November, I believe. 2sl0w4m3, m4k3 it f4st3r |
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| Throne of HEroes, where heroes are housed, exists outside space and time. Once a soul gets there, no matter what happens(even if time is altered for him to never be born) it resides there. Being a Heroic Spirit has nothing to do with being a hero - in Shirou's time its impossible simply because it requires achieving something no one ever did and by present day everything possible was already achieved(and humanity is in decline anyway). Even if Shirou as a person is capable of great deeds(which he is), he would never be a natural heroic spirit because someone else did them before him already. Archer sometime in future, faced a situation where a lot people would die and he had no way to stop it - so he made a deal with "Alaya"(collective unconsciousness of all human life), which, in return of Archer pledging his services to it, empowered him to save them. In return, Archer was doomed to forever, after death, be used by Alaya as a Counter Guardian to preserve humanity's continued existence (as in: kill anything that gets in the way of humanity's survival, even if its entire countries). That qualifies him to be summoned, but he is not "true" heroic spirit since he had an outside force to achieve the great deed. Its plainly clear that Shirou is not exactly a normal human. He has a very unique mindset(due to 4th war fire) and very unique powerset. Yet the only heroic spirit he can beat is Gilgamesh, simply because UBW is faster at summoning swords than GOB(ignore how movie portrayed it since that's not how the fight happened,they did not just keep bashing each other with same sword) and because GIlgamesh is egoistic idiot who values EA way too much to use it right off the bat on someone he underestimates. He is not "replicating" UBW. Its his ability unique to him alone. For anything else, wait for remake. Should not have watched the movie nor 2006 series anyway since movie abridges ~40 hours of material into 1 hour movie and 2006 contradicts the source material in a lot of the ways and 99% of it is anime original content. |
AhenshihaelAug 12, 2014 4:16 PM
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| What do you mean I shouldn't have watched the movie or the 2006 series? :( |
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| 2006 series has nothing to do with Fate/Zero or the whole fate franchise and is pretty much an anime original try to create an alternate version of FSN storyline. It intentionally cuts out all of the character development or growth (or any sort of explanations), it intentionally downplays the events and fights to save animation and midway through it pretty much creates its own storyline having nothing to do with the franchise. Pretty much nothing of it, except for every ending, is canon. UBW Movie is incomprehensible to anyone but those who read the novel. Its a bad attempt to cash in on it's popularity, again, with most of the problems that 2006 series faced. IT essentially tries to stuff 30 hour long route into 1 hour long movie by simply animating randomly picked fights from that route and cutting out everrything else(like most of answers to your questions) What do I mean it intentionally downplays stuff? Here's an example: Studio DEEN version of a scene on one side, versus how it SHOULD be on the other.       |
AhenshihaelAug 12, 2014 4:27 PM
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MeiMisaki1525 said: What do you mean I shouldn't have watched the movie or the 2006 series? :( The TV series is debatable, but the new 2014 series is adapting the same route that this movie did. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3Spectre said: MeiMisaki1525 said: What do you mean I shouldn't have watched the movie or the 2006 series? :( The TV series is debatable, but the new 2014 series is adapting the same route that this movie did. So is the 2014 series going to be different and stay true to the novel or is it going to be along the same lines as the movie? |
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MeiMisaki1525 said: insan3Spectre said: The TV series is debatable, but the new 2014 series is adapting the same route that this movie did. So is the 2014 series going to be different and stay true to the novel or is it going to be along the same lines as the movie? It will adapt the same route as the movie, but actually adapt it,instead of just half-assedly animating a couple of fights from it. |
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Fai said: MeiMisaki1525 said: So is the 2014 series going to be different and stay true to the novel or is it going to be along the same lines as the movie? It will adapt the same route as the movie, but actually adapt it,instead of just half-assedly animating a couple of fights from it. Good. That's very good. :p |
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| Shirou beat Archer because Archer let him win. That's really the only reason. Studio DEEN's adaptations are lousily done and should be ignored, if one has the patience to read the novel anyway. That's why no one who isn't ignorant would ever recommend DEEN's work on FSN. It's like I'm telling you to watch Shingetsutan Tsukihime because it's super awesome. It isn't. |
| Shingetsutan Tsukihime is awesome at making me fall asleep. I tried re-watching it now that I have read the VN.Stopped at ep2.... I think. |
| The music is good, though. |
| Cant remember I was too busy trying to find something in the designs and story to keep me awake. |
ssjokg said: Shingetsutan Tsukihime is awesome at making me fall asleep. I tried re-watching it now that I have read the VN.Stopped at ep2.... I think. How can you rewatch something that never existed? :[ |
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Fai said: The same way he watched it the first time.ssjokg said: Shingetsutan Tsukihime is awesome at making me fall asleep. I tried re-watching it now that I have read the VN.Stopped at ep2.... I think. How can you rewatch something that never existed? :[ |
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| to add on to what Forgetfulness mentioned. 1) Servants can also be mythical or people that never did exist before but as long as there is enough information about the person that is believed to be so by a huge amount of humans, it is possible to materialize them as servants. One example is sasaki koujirou. In the fate universe unlike ours he is only a myth and does not really exist. 2) One of the other reason that shirou is able to defeat gilgamesh is that not only does UBW project weapons at a faster rate, they are all replaceable compared to his opponent. Also it is mentioned in the novel that gilgamesh is only a owner of those weapons but not a wielder and thus he is not able to use any to their full potential. This causes the noble phantasms to drop a grade and shirou on the other hand is a wielder and thus even though a projected weapon is a grade lesser than the original it matches up. Also the ability of broken phantasm in which the wielder infuses mana into their weapons strengthens the weapon by a grade but the downside is that it will be destroyed after the next hit. needless to say with UBW shirou/archer can use it to their hearts content as everything is replaceable as long as they still have mana. There is just no way gilgamesh can win against such a nemesis. |
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