Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei Episode 13 Discussion

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Feb 2013

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h1k1k0m0r1 said:

That you continued in the same post with on-topic sentences too, does little to mitigate the fact that part of it was off-topic as well. If it would be that simple, adding a few words like 'Ah yes, and I liked the anime too!' would be enough to turn all my walls of text relevant and on-topic, and you wouldn't have complained, then? (fat chance). I'll do that right now: I think Myuiki is well drawn. There, I made this post on-topic now as well. Right?

Ah, I see what you mean now. I was still confused about what you mean until you added this paragraph. No, it doesn't make the whole post on-topic, and neither does that line of yours make the whole wall of text on-topic, just that line itself. I guess we have different thoughts on how a post qualifies as "on-topic". You being the whole post having to qualify as on-topic (I think?), and me being only the part where, so long it's about what the thread is for, it's on-topic. Well, learned something new today.

One would have to agree this would be a fully arbitrary decision and conclusion though. I would like to point out that you wrote a lot less too. So in comparison, one may wonder. You made 3 paragraphs in your original post to me, one pertaining to me and my walls of text. That's more than 30% of your post which is off-topic. Why would 30% be ok, but 90% not? It's rather self-serving to claim your level off-topicness is on-topic, but another ones' off-topicness remains off topic. Even worse, we've now continued this off-topic debate with 2-3 more posts, all largely off-topic. In your whole second post, you just added one sentence: "Would be looking forward to the meeting between Ichijou and our Lord." Let's be honest here; do you really think adding that one sentence made the post on-topic? And if you do, why isn't one sentence of mine? With your last one, I don't even find one reference to the actual anime back. Are you now going to claim mine are off-topic, but yours are not? Let's face it here; we're both debating with off-topic posts.

if your stance is, one doesn't need it for even a thoughtful, in-depth discussion.

If it's about the anime, that's fine. But if it's about... Whether the people on the forum's behavior is normal or not, or about them... Or a thoughtful, in-depth discussion about which ramen brand is the best on an anime discussion thread, then... No, one doesn't need that thoughtful, in-depth discussion about it. There are other discussion boards/threads for that.

As for my thoughts on the anime? I believe I've said enough for this episode. Are they thought-provoking, mind-blowing in-depth analyses? No, and at least, I don't think so too, anyway.

Well, at least you cleared that out, thanks. (I'm not being sarcastic). so basically, your gripes is with it being off-topic, not with it being walls of text. You obfuscated that point a bit by claiming it wasn't thoughtful at all. There is a difference between the two. Take your example of ramen. A thoughtful exposé and discussion of ramen may be off-topic, but it still would remain a thoughtful discussion. "Not needed' pertains to being off-topic or not, not about the fact whether or not it was thoughtful or walls of text are needed or not. I do agree - I'll say it once more - that the discussion was largely off-topic, since it was a meta-discussion about when and why people are complaining so much about this anime, even to the point of continuing to watch and complain about it, while at the same time saying they dislike it and find it boring. One can hardly deny there is something contradictory in that.

But, granted, off-topic. I have said so myself in my posts. But one has to be fair and intellectually honest as well, and acknowledge these posts of ours are off-topic as well. No rapid adding of a sentence at the end about the anime changes that. And if it does, it changes for everyone for every post.

I'll look up your posts and see what arguments you use. If I find it worthwhile (aka, not just spouting of mere opinions, since that doesn't lend itself for a fruitful debate) enough, I'll comment on it and give my thoughts about it. That would be our first 'on topic' debate here then. ;-) They don't need to be exceptional mind-blowing or in-depth, rest assured. That was more to question what I thought you implied, namely that elaborate posts are a nuisance and one does not need it to make a thoughtful in-depth discussion (to which I disagree, obviously). The thoughtfulness of a discussion doesn't dissipate with it being relevant to the topic, however, only the (level of) on-topicness is affected by that.

I'll have a look at your posts, now.

AnimageNebyJun 30, 2014 3:10 AM

Jun 30, 2014 3:10 AM

#204

Kilnerbanker

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Apr 2013

1338

Welp, aside from all the pure shitting and vitriol in a Mahouka thread seemingly as usual..

RunAhriRun said:
That soundtrack during Miyuki's battle scene was amazing

I thought so too, anyone happen to know the name of it since I'm too lazy to look it up?

Jun 30, 2014 3:15 AM

#205

h1k1k0m0r1

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May 2014

21

Let's be honest here; do you really think adding that one sentence made the post on-topic? And if you do, why isn't one sentence mine?

No, it doesn't make the whole post on-topic, and neither does that line of yours make the whole wall of text on-topic, just that line itself.

I didn't think I needed to bold this line as well, but I guess I do. It's a little vague, my apologies. But what I mean is: that line of yours is on-topic, and the rest of your post is off-topic. Of course, many superfluous statements could then qualify this way as well, but regardless, it's still on-topic in it's barest bones.

That would be our first 'on topic' debate here then. ;-)

Unfortunately, I can't really care for a debate with you on this anime. If you do bring up something interesting, however, I shall reply.

Edit: the strike through

h1k1k0m0r1Jun 30, 2014 3:23 AM

Jun 30, 2014 3:29 AM

#206

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Feb 2013

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h1k1k0m0r1 said:
As for my thoughts on the anime? I believe I've said enough for this episode. Are they thought-provoking, mind-blowing in-depth analyses? No, and at least, I don't think so too, anyway.

Ermm... h1k1k0m0r1? I'm not trying to claim you have been BS'ing here, but in all honesty, unless I'm mistaken (in which case, could you please provide me with the appropriate link?) I can't find any prior posts. You DID NOT even make ONE post about this episode in all the former pages?

I mean, c'mon. You claimed you don't need to say anything anymore about this episode because 'you said enough'... and you didn't make one post prior to you complaining about my walls of text?

Am I missing something here? Maybe you meant you argumented it elsewhere, in another thread of another another episode of the series?

Edit: ah, ok, it seems you can't be bothered having a discussion about it, or at least, you don't feel inclined to. I thought you might. But if you're not, I'm really not going to put the effort of searching for your posts in the other threads; it's just too bothersome for little use, then. I couldn't find any posts on this thread prior to our off-topic ones, sorry. I guess I misunderstood.

AnimageNebyJun 30, 2014 3:34 AM

Jun 30, 2014 3:32 AM

#207

h1k1k0m0r1

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and you didn't make one post prior to you complaining about my walls of text?

My thoughts in those two posts are precisely what I meant in "I believe I've said enough for this episode".

Jun 30, 2014 3:47 AM

#208

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Feb 2013

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h1k1k0m0r1 said:

and you didn't make one post prior to you complaining about my walls of text?

My thoughts in those two posts are precisely what I meant in "I believe I've said enough for this episode".

Ah, I see. Well...they are... I'll try to say it euphemistic; rather sparse on arguments or explanations for your line of reasoning.

I would dare to say they are proof, or at least a prime example, of what I said earlier: that you can't make a thoughtful post with one-liners. Basically, and I don't mean this as an offence, the few things you say about it doesn't really give anything to discus in any meaningful way. I mean there is almost nothing there that tries to substantiate anything you said, as your opinion.

I could try to deduce some things out of your very first post, mayhaps. The "Whelp, same old same old our Lord's the best, everyone else is insignificant." I think pertains to the OP-ness of the MC. Which I already addressed here: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1209649&show=180#msg32064371 .

Then the fact you liked it better...because of the music, is the only substantiation I can distil out of it.
Ok.

That's about it.

Jun 30, 2014 3:55 AM

#209

h1k1k0m0r1

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I would dare to say they are proof, or at least a prime example, of what I said earlier: that you can't make a thoughtful post with one-liners.

Glad you found your proof.

I didn't think one-liners could make thoughtful discussions, though. ...and didn't think my posts were anything more than my opinion too, as somewhat implied in a post of mine.

Jun 30, 2014 4:08 AM

#210

Meritas

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It was actually a pretty interesting episode, for a first in long time. I'm anticipating the next episode which is pretty much a a good thing.

I wonder what Third High might try tro pull.

Is it just me, or the plot is slowly picking up?

Jun 30, 2014 4:14 AM

#211

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Feb 2013

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h1k1k0m0r1 said:

I would dare to say they are proof, or at least a prime example, of what I said earlier: that you can't make a thoughtful post with one-liners.

Glad you found your proof.

I didn't think one-liners could make thoughtful discussions, though. ...and didn't think my posts were anything more than my opinion too, as somewhat implied in a post of mine.

Ok, fair enough. But when you said "I've said enough" - certainly seen the context we were discussing, namely about the thoughtfulness of posts - I thought you meant you made enough posts of that kind, so didn't bother to repeat all the things you already said in them. I was interested enough for what you had to say to actually search the whole thread through looking for those posts. ;-p

I thought it rather straightforward that, when I asked about your thoughts about the anime, I meant in a more profound way, as we had been discussing that very topic. Maybe I didn't express myself very well, there. Or otherwise, you might just have said you didn't make those kind of posts, instead of saying you said enough of it.

Because, it seems you agree your current posts don't have arguments, nor any substantiation of/for your lines of thought about the anime, etc.. They are, indeed, mostly just a statement of a mere opinion. All opinions, as such, are equal, however. So that doesn't lend itself for a an in-depth post or a thoughtful discussion, indeed.

If you ever make a post where you put some more effort into, let me know, I'm really curious and interested in what you have to say about it - in a more detailed way, I mean.

Jun 30, 2014 4:51 AM

#212

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Meritas said:
It was actually a pretty interesting episode, for a first in long time. I'm anticipating the next episode which is pretty much a a good thing.

I wonder what Third High might try tro pull.

Is it just me, or the plot is slowly picking up?

Ah yes, the plot. I think so too, though some already complain about it. If it's terrorists, they complain. If they're suicide-bombers they complain. If they're bookkeepers, they complain.

In all honesty, while antagonists are 'cooler' when they are terrorists, I find it more down to earth and more realistic that a bunch of bookkeepies who are on the brink of losing millions, would try to rig the contest. Yes, even send people to the clinic, and yes, even kill them off. I mean, what? One thinks this does not happen? I doubt we're talking about legal bets here. It's illegal. It's the mob. These sort of things happen today, still, in real life, with any major sport/game/competition. Look at the WC football. Wasn't' there a Chinese recently who committed suicide because he couldn't pay his debts, and they threatened to break his legs and knock on the door of his parents etc. for the money?

The more money they are going to loose, the more drastic they will become. It's fairly realistic and makes more sense than terrorists that fall out of the blue sky. Of course, those are still present too. If and what the link is or will be (or not), remains to be seen. A bit of mystery isn't bad.

Also, the plot picks up because of the introduction of the guys (especially the two main) of third high. they have established that class/school have brains too, now. Previously, they established the main antagonist of Third High had lightening fast reflexes and had a powerful amount of magic. This should appease those that always complained about a lack of suspense. (Not that I think many will do, since I think with some, it's never good).

Take the MC speech about how the CADs and magic works in previous episodes. Many complainers where insistantly whining about 'too much talk' and 'they spoil it with all that mumbo jumbo', etc. Now that the MC has vastly reduced the explanation of things, we see complaints that the MC 'only shows' it, and almost doesn't explain the working anymore.

It's clear you can't do good for everyone, and in this case, with some, the anime can't ever do anything good, whatever they do.

Personally, I liked the explanations of the MC about those things*. Thus, I find it a pity it's been reduced. But I'm well aware if he would pick it up again next episode, again complainers would complain he's talking too much and they don't need all that explanation. Rince, repeat.

*The reason for that is, it helps establish and further develops the worldbuilding process. We are in an alternate world, after all. You need details and explanations to fill in the blanks and get a better understanding, and a better 'living' world where the characters are set in. This in turn helps the believability of that world, and thus the level of involvement you can feel. The more something is detailed and coherent, the more that world comes alive.

Jun 30, 2014 9:24 AM

#213

Tengoku_no_hakai

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Jun 2013

1056

Lol Morisaki you sad sad individual. Just accept your lord and savior Shiba Tatsuya already, as should some of you who hate Tatsuya for just being a total BOSS. There are enough anime out there with pathetic MCs already. Let's have fun for once :)

Tengoku_no_hakaiJun 30, 2014 9:30 AM

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Jun 30, 2014 9:37 AM

#214

forgiuse

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May 2014

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Tengoku_no_hakai said:
Lol Morisaki you sad sad individual. Just accept your lord and savior Shiba Tatsuya already, as should some of you who hate Tatsuya for just being a total BOSS. There are enough anime out there with pathetic MCs already. Let's have fun for once :)

The problem is not he's competent. Which is NOT ACTUALLY A BAD THING. But the hate for him comes from the fact that ONLY HE IS. Something need to be done ? Tatsuya's here. Someone need to take a beating ? No worry, Mr.T will do that. He can freaking tell the PROFESSIONAL MEDICS WHAT TO DO. He invented flying magic, by which a lot of genius researchers STRUGGLE TO DO THAT.
What we see in the anime is that the world revolve AROUND Tat. If you're not Mr.T, you're either his fan or his enemy. His fan would be more special than normal people themselves, and his enemy ? Just look at how Blanche and No-Head Drags fare until now.
Btw, I like Saitama and Alucard.

Jun 30, 2014 9:42 AM

#215

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May 2010

418

Tengoku_no_hakai said:
Lol Morisaki you sad sad individual. Just accept your lord and savior Shiba Tatsuya already, as should some of you who hate Tatsuya for just being a total BOSS. There are enough anime out there with pathetic MCs already. Let's have fun for once :)

Were it so easy.

http://youtu.be/MMu3DdkeJH4

Jun 30, 2014 9:46 AM

#216

trannon1

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To those people who hate Shiba and Miyuki's relationship. I personally like the bro-sis relationship Tatsuya and Miyuki have, because I understand the dynamics of their relationship and the reasons behind it.

And so, to those people whining at the bro-sis lovey-dovey relationship, please read my summary before passing judgment about it.

Jun 30, 2014 9:58 AM

#217

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trannon1 said:
To those people who hate Shiba and Miyuki's relationship. I personally like the bro-sis relationship Tatsuya and Miyuki have, because I understand the dynamics of their relationship and the reasons behind it.

And so, to those people whining at the bro-sis lovey-dovey relationship, please read my summary before passing judgment about it.

That merely fills in the blanks and doesn't change my opinion of it. Someone already made a comment on that whole thing, so rather than parrot it I'm just gonna paste it here:

Jun 30, 2014 10:23 AM

#218

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May 2013

696

trannon1 said:
To those people who hate Shiba and Miyuki's relationship. I personally like the bro-sis relationship Tatsuya and Miyuki have, because I understand the dynamics of their relationship and the reasons behind it.

And so, to those people whining at the bro-sis lovey-dovey relationship, please read my summary before passing judgment about it.

But they still look like Gary Stu and his worshipper.

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jun 30, 2014 10:36 AM

#219

trannon1

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195

wrenchbread said:

trannon1 said:
To those people who hate Shiba and Miyuki's relationship. I personally like the bro-sis relationship Tatsuya and Miyuki have, because I understand the dynamics of their relationship and the reasons behind it.

And so, to those people whining at the bro-sis lovey-dovey relationship, please read my summary before passing judgment about it.

That merely fills in the blanks and doesn't change my opinion of it. Someone already made a comment on that whole thing, so rather than parrot it I'm just gonna paste it here:

Here is my answer to you. I pulled some direct quotes from the light novel as evidence.

Jun 30, 2014 11:15 AM

#220

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418

trannon1 said:

Here is my answer to you. I pulled some direct quotes from the light novel as evidence.

Like I said, you're only filling in the blanks, rather with a summary this time, you decided to use excerpts from the LN itself. It doesn't change my opinion of anything. No matter how many sprinkles you add this turd, it's still a turd underneath.

What is there to refute? You're basically saying "I'm right because this is what the LN says," which is not a way to pose an argument, especially since the LN's explanation isn't necessarily a good one. How am I supposed to refute the actual text? It's not like I can say the text is lying. What you're using is circular logic, which is a logical fallacy. In the end, I'm not sure what your argument even is. The reasons feel more like a confirmation for what we already suspected rather than a good justification. LN readers kept saying that there’s a good reason for why Miyuki acts the way she does and then I read it and go “OK, Miyuki really likes her brother and she now likes him even more and decides to dedicate herself to him. That’s it?” Why’s everyone treating it as if it’s some super secret special sauce thing that will absolve the work of any criticism thus far? Saying Miyuki's the ball and chain for Tatsuya is merely an expansion on her devotion; why is she so devoted -> because she thinks of herself as dragging Tatsuya down. Not a good argument.

Considering how seriously the work takes itself, I’m surprised it doesn’t take the angle that Miyuki might be mentally ill, but Satou decides to play it up and ignore the implications of such a relationship. This isn’t the first work of its kind to employ this sort of technique and honestly has been done better elsewhere. I'd like to throw in FMA’s Hawkeye-Mustang relationship as also something to emulate. The problem I have is that we’re told this rather than shown clearly from the beginning. By the time they reveal it to us, it’s too little, too late. Nanana did a better job showing us what the MC is really like there, because it showed it to us early when the piqued interest was freshest in our mind.

Honestly, the relationship between the two is just as simple as written but with more flowery words padding the length;

It all feels so fake and over the top.

EDIT: Missed a part in your spoiler.

>I notice you did not say anything at all about Tatsuya's side of the story.

What's there to say? I don't feel bad enough for him to make a comment. Yes, he does need a partner, someone who can guide him, scold him when necessarily, an equal, but Miyuki feels like a poorly done extension of Tatsuya. He also needs a foil, a moral antagonist, an actual mentor (no, Yakumo doesn't count, Kazama is getting there). Dude needs a lot of things.

wrenchbreadJun 30, 2014 11:34 AM

Jun 30, 2014 11:32 AM

#221

trannon1

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195

wrenchbread said:

trannon1 said:

Here is my answer to you. I pulled some direct quotes from the light novel as evidence.

Like I said, you're only filling in the blanks, rather with a summary this time, you decided to use excerpts from the LN itself. It doesn't change my opinion of anything. No matter how many sprinkles you add this turd, it's still a turd underneath.

What is there to refute? You're basically saying "I'm right because this is what the LN says," which is not a way to pose an argument, especially since the LN's explanation isn't necessarily a good one. How am I supposed to refute the actual text? It's not like I can say the text is lying. What you're using is circular logic, which is a logical fallacy. In the end, I'm not sure what your argument even is. The reasons feel more like a confirmation for what we already suspected rather than a good justification. LN readers kept saying that there’s a good reason for why Miyuki acts the way she does and then I read it and go “OK, Miyuki really likes her brother and she now likes him even more and decides to dedicate herself to him. That’s it?” Why’s everyone treating it as if it’s some super secret special sauce thing that will absolve the work of any criticism thus far? Saying Miyuki's the ball and chain for Tatsuya is merely an expansion on her devotion; why is she so devoted -> because she thinks of herself as dragging Tatsuya down. Not a good argument.

Considering how seriously the work takes itself, I’m surprised it doesn’t take the angle that Miyuki might be mentally ill, but Satou decides to play it up and ignore the implications of such a relationship. This isn’t the first work of its kind to employ this sort of technique and honestly has been done better elsewhere. I'd like to throw in FMA’s Hawkeye-Mustang relationship as also something to emulate. The problem I have is that we’re told this rather than shown clearly from the beginning. By the time they reveal it to us, it’s too little, too late. Nanana did a better job showing us what the MC is really like there, because it showed it to us early when the piqued interest was freshest in our mind.

Honestly, the relationship between the two is just as simple as written but with more flowery words padding the length;

It all feels so fake and over the top.

1) I used the text as evidence to supplement my OPINIONS. I used the text to show that the reasons for their attachments are not as shallow as you think they are. I never asked you to refute the text itself.

2)Can you give an example of "This isn’t the first work of its kind to employ this sort of technique and honestly has been done better elsewhere"?

3) When I wrote REFUTE, I meant arguing your own point. Also, 'your arguments are all geared towards Miyuki's reasons and you didn't criticize Tatsuya's reasons even once' was the point I was trying to make with that sentence.

4) I wasn't sure if you knew this but Miyuki's relationships to people tend to be superficial. Her parents are useless as parents. Her extended family wants her to be the new heir because of her powers and do not leave her with any choices whatsoever. Her classmates are attracted to her beauty and grace and magic, and just about nothing else. Her brother is one of the few people who truly cherishes her for what she is.

Actually, I think better stop spamming the board as of right now. We can agree to disagree. Nice arguments btw.

trannon1Jun 30, 2014 11:38 AM

Jun 30, 2014 1:11 PM

#222

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May 2010

418

trannon1 said:

1) I used the text as evidence to supplement my OPINIONS. I used the text to show that the reasons for their attachments are not as shallow as you think they are. I never asked you to refute the text itself.

You should've made it clear. I wish I was psychic, but unfortunately, I'm not. It still boils down to the above.
And that's not how you argue. It's circular logic. Supplementing your opinions is different from supporting them. I never said it was shallow, that wasn't even my argument in the first place. I said it wasn't a good justification, especially since it's so over the top that Miyuki comes off as mentally ill and Tatsuya just rolls with it. My question is, why is that? I'm more into the Doylist school of thought when analyzing literature, if that helps with your next response, as the Watsonian answer is not useful because it doesn’t say anything meaningful. Just that it is. It’s still shallow because the basic idea still holds.

trannon1 said:

2)Can you give an example of "This isn’t the first work of its kind to employ this sort of technique and honestly has been done better elsewhere"?

Well, there's already Attack on Titan in my first reply, the one I gave in the second reply was from Fullmetal Alchemist, Kaoru/Kenshin and Hiko/Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin, Koinzell and Ato from Ubel Blatt, Bonnie MacFarlane and John Marston from Red Dead Redemption, etc. Point is, in all those cases, just because someone saved you, doesn’t mean you give your entire being of existence to that person. Would you? If that’s the case, that’s a sign of some bigger mental problems. No matter how you slice it, this isn’t a realistic situation (which is contradictory to how self-serious the work is), but yet some people keep trying to peddle it as such, just because the LN says so.

trannon1 said:

3) When I wrote REFUTE, I meant arguing your own point. Also, 'your arguments are all geared towards Miyuki's reasons and you didn't criticize Tatsuya's reasons even once' was the point I was trying to make with that sentence.

Tatsuya doesn’t reciprocate Miyuki’s feelings. As far as I’m concerned this is a one-sided love on Miyuki’s part, so all the emotional flow is from Miyuki. Love in this form is inherently irrational. And that whole keeping only the love for his sibling is such a contrivance, just so the author can reinforce the incest pandering.

trannon1 said:

4) I wasn't sure if you knew this but Miyuki's relationships to people tend to be superficial. Her parents are useless as parents. Her extended family wants her to be the new heir because of her powers and do not leave her with any choices whatsoever. Her classmates are attracted to her beauty and grace and magic, and just about nothing else. Her brother is one of the few people who truly cherishes her for what she is.

What she is, isn't much, to be fair. We don't know what Miyuki's convictions are. How she views the world, what she thinks of the current Bloom/Weed system, etc. She barely thinks for herself.

wrenchbreadJun 30, 2014 1:34 PM

Jun 30, 2014 1:43 PM

#223

HungLikeaZombie

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406

forgiuse said:

HungLikeaZombie said:
The amount of crying about this show is enough to fill up an Olympic sized swimming pool.

Everybody hates Tatsuya just because he is perfect at everything. 85% of the people watching this show are acting just like Morisaki.

So you mean we're supposed to like someone we couldn't like ? And the act of disliking him make us jerkasses ?
Thank you for reminding us about how the author view the world and society.

I never said you had to like Tatsuya, but I think everybody should, or somewhat respect him. ex) When I was in my senior year in High School, we had a kid named Steven who was a guy that Started in Varsity Football, Basketball, and Baseball to a point. he was also VP of the student counsel. He never once flung his status in anybody's face, and always talked to everybody. Heck me and him talked a lot in our classes. Even I was a little jealous at times, but he was a respectable guy, and a role model to look up too.

Glorious Titties Nuff Said!

Make America Great Again!

Jun 30, 2014 1:58 PM

#224

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696

HungLikeaZombie said:
I never said you had to like Tatsuya, but I think everybody should, or somewhat respect him. ex) When I was in my senior year in High School, we had a kid named Steven who was a guy that Started in Varsity Football, Basketball, and Baseball to a point. he was also VP of the student counsel. He never once flung his status in anybody's face, and always talked to everybody. Heck me and him talked a lot in our classes. Even I was a little jealous at times, but he was a respectable guy, and a role model to look up too.

Why anyone should respect him? Tatsuya is just poor developed Gary Stu, who acts on the edge of his world boundaries and almost everyone who oppose him is presented as a retard.

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jun 30, 2014 2:05 PM

#225

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418

jakkubus said:

HungLikeaZombie said:
I never said you had to like Tatsuya, but I think everybody should, or somewhat respect him. ex) When I was in my senior year in High School, we had a kid named Steven who was a guy that Started in Varsity Football, Basketball, and Baseball to a point. he was also VP of the student counsel. He never once flung his status in anybody's face, and always talked to everybody. Heck me and him talked a lot in our classes. Even I was a little jealous at times, but he was a respectable guy, and a role model to look up too.

Why anyone should respect him? Tatsuya is just poor developed Gary Stu, who acts on the edge of his world boundaries and almost everyone who oppose him is presented as a retard.

I don't respect this objectivist ubermensch. He's uncompromising in his beliefs, and does what he wishes with disregard to others. He's doesn't have what you call good character. Respecting him would be like respecting a hurricane. Why would you?

wrenchbreadJun 30, 2014 2:09 PM

Jun 30, 2014 4:14 PM

#226

Snaita

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Jun 2012

1401

You people are digressing, both sides are right. True he his a respectful badass black horse protagonist but it's also true that the anime ain't doing justice to him, it's the "editors" fault for not making him what he should be in the first place.

Jun 30, 2014 4:38 PM

#227

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May 2013

696

Snaita said:
You people are digressing, both sides are right. True he his a respectful badass black horse protagonist but it's also true that the anime ain't doing justice to him, it's the "editors" fault for not making him what he should be in the first place.

Nope, he is just another lame wish fulfilment. Even OP characters can be developed well, but Tatsuya certainly isn't.

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jun 30, 2014 5:04 PM

#228

HungLikeaZombie

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Apr 2011

406

wrenchbread said:

jakkubus said:

Why anyone should respect him? Tatsuya is just poor developed Gary Stu, who acts on the edge of his world boundaries and almost everyone who oppose him is presented as a retard.

Respecting him would be like respecting a hurricane. Why would you?

I'm sorry. I would assume you would respect a hurricane, and take shelter from it. Also the same concept can be said about Tatsuya. Hence nobody can even touch this guy. Why go into a fight you cant win? his skills are 3x more powerful than what anybody has ever seen.

Glorious Titties Nuff Said!

Make America Great Again!

Jun 30, 2014 5:10 PM

#229

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May 2010

418

HungLikeaZombie said:

I'm sorry. I would assume you would respect a hurricane, and take shelter from it. Also the same concept can be said about Tatsuya. Hence nobody can even touch this guy. Why go into a fight you cant win? his skills are 3x more powerful than what anybody has ever seen.

I fear hurricanes, therefore I will take shelter from them. Why would you feel admiration for a hurricane? I see no reason to respect them as they are just a force of nature. It doesn't feel, doesn't think, it doesn't care about what you think of it, it merely is.

Jun 30, 2014 5:26 PM

#230

HungLikeaZombie

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Apr 2011

406

wrenchbread said:

HungLikeaZombie said:

I'm sorry. I would assume you would respect a hurricane, and take shelter from it. Also the same concept can be said about Tatsuya. Hence nobody can even touch this guy. Why go into a fight you cant win? his skills are 3x more powerful than what anybody has ever seen.

I fear hurricanes, therefore I will take shelter from them. Why would you feel admiration for a hurricane? I see no reason to respect them as they are just a force of nature. It doesn't feel, doesn't think, it doesn't care about what you think of it, it merely is.

You just answered your own question: they are a force of nature, and you cant stop Nature you can only try to contain it. For when you fear something you lose to it, but when you respect something you can learn more about it, to try to contain it.

What I'm trying to say is Tatsuya isn't a God, he MUST have a weakness. I myself have never seen a Gary-stu character not have some sort of weakness.

Glorious Titties Nuff Said!

Make America Great Again!

Jun 30, 2014 5:29 PM

#231

Orix

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Jan 2010

418

Miyuki would have improved as a character in the anime IF ONLY Miyuki had monologues of "I should be doing things for Tatsuya after what he has done for me" mixed along with her praises of Onii-sama. Even Index and Railgun's Kuroko Shirai had some additional characterization to her aside from just being Mikoto's lesbian stalker friend.

I also don't feel even a slither of compassion towards Tatsuya, even with that "tragic past of his", and that is another issue. A good tragic past seeps through a person's character in the present time, like in Toori Aoi (Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon) and Setsuna F. Seiei (Gundam 00), but Mahouka's felt more like an excuse, no thanks to the fact that we don't have a credible way to depict his feelings. Hell, even Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi's (Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko) way of depicting emotion would have worked wonders if Tatsuya had it too.

Jun 30, 2014 5:42 PM

#232

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May 2010

418

HungLikeaZombie said:

You just answered your own question: they are a force of nature, and you cant stop Nature you can only try to contain it. For when you fear something you lose to it, but when you respect something you can learn more about it, to try to contain it.

What I'm trying to say is Tatsuya isn't a God, he MUST have a weakness. I myself have never seen a Gary-stu character not have some sort of weakness.

I don't see how respecting something and learning more about it are connected at the hips. They're mutually exclusive. I may be curious about something like hurricanes but I in no way respect/admire/look up to them (look up the definition of respect).

...Just what are we talking about? Let's drop this as this is going nowhere fast.

Anyways, I may respect Tatsuya's powers but I can never respect him as a person.

Orix said:
Miyuki would have improved as a character in the anime IF ONLY Miyuki had monologues of "I should be doing things for Tatsuya after what he has done for me" mixed along with her praises of Onii-sama. Even Index and Railgun's Kuroko Shirai had some additional characterization to her aside from just being Mikoto's lesbian stalker friend.

I also don't feel even a slither of compassion towards Tatsuya, even with that "tragic past of his", and that is another issue. A good tragic past seeps through a person's character in the present time, like in Toori Aoi (Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon) and Setsuna F. Seiei (Gundam 00), but Mahouka's felt more like an excuse, no thanks to the fact that we don't have a credible way to depict his feelings. Hell, even Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi's (Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko) way of depicting emotion would have worked wonders if Tatsuya had it too.

I honestly think they should've started from their childhood. Look what they did with Haruka Kotoura's backstory. The anime started from she was a baby and basically fast-tracked through her childhood to show us the happiness and subsequent pain she went through. Look at the movie 'Up'. Both employed the same technique to great effect.

wrenchbreadJun 30, 2014 5:47 PM

Jun 30, 2014 5:45 PM

#233

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May 2013

696

So we are closer to reach compromise. Tatsuya is boring character with interesting powers.

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jun 30, 2014 6:08 PM

#234

OpalMidge

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Oct 2013

285

jakkubus said:
So we are closer to reach compromise. Tatsuya is boring character with interesting powers.

For some people. I find his thought processes interesting. So, for me, he would be an interesting character with interesting powers.

OpalMidgeJun 30, 2014 6:13 PM

Jun 30, 2014 6:11 PM

#235

KneelBeforeMe

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Apr 2013

7975

Meritas said:
It was actually a pretty interesting episode, for a first in long time. I'm anticipating the next episode which is pretty much a a good thing.

I wonder what Third High might try tro pull.

Is it just me, or the plot is slowly picking up?

what plot?

Jun 30, 2014 6:12 PM

#236

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Apr 2008

11325

HungLikeaZombie said:

wrenchbread said:

I fear hurricanes, therefore I will take shelter from them. Why would you feel admiration for a hurricane? I see no reason to respect them as they are just a force of nature. It doesn't feel, doesn't think, it doesn't care about what you think of it, it merely is.

You just answered your own question: they are a force of nature, and you cant stop Nature you can only try to contain it. For when you fear something you lose to it, but when you respect something you can learn more about it, to try to contain it.

What I'm trying to say is Tatsuya isn't a God, he MUST have a weakness. I myself have never seen a Gary-stu character not have some sort of weakness.

Personally I don't consider a Gary-Stu with a weakness to be a gary stu at all. The weakness just makes them overpowered as hell

Jun 30, 2014 9:08 PM

#237

Flashoftheback

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Feb 2014

1170

Darklight0303 said:

HungLikeaZombie said:

You just answered your own question: they are a force of nature, and you cant stop Nature you can only try to contain it. For when you fear something you lose to it, but when you respect something you can learn more about it, to try to contain it.

What I'm trying to say is Tatsuya isn't a God, he MUST have a weakness. I myself have never seen a Gary-stu character not have some sort of weakness.

Personally I don't consider a Gary-Stu with a weakness to be a gary stu at all. The weakness just makes them overpowered as hell

And....Tatsuya's weakness is???

Jul 1, 2014 2:55 AM

#238

Nidhoeggr

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Apr 2009

5716

MShukyDeneuve said:

Darklight0303 said:

Personally I don't consider a Gary-Stu with a weakness to be a gary stu at all. The weakness just makes them overpowered as hell

And....Tatsuya's weakness is???

His average looks!.... which is totally not written that way to appeal to the normal people that selfinsert into him!

Steel Ball Run anime when?

Jul 1, 2014 3:27 AM

#239

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Apr 2008

11325

MShukyDeneuve said:

Darklight0303 said:

Personally I don't consider a Gary-Stu with a weakness to be a gary stu at all. The weakness just makes them overpowered as hell

And....Tatsuya's weakness is???

The lack of a majority of human emotions. Without Myiuki he would be a cold calculating killing machine.

Jul 1, 2014 3:41 AM

#240

forgiuse

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May 2014

104

Darklight0303 said:
The lack of a majority of human emotions. Without Myiuki he would be a cold calculating killing machine.

Does the lack of emotions make him unable to blend in society ? Nope, i see him make friends just fine. Does it hinder his ability to kick ass ? The opposite, actually.
If it doesn't make an disadvantage, then it's not a weakness. Just like saying Superman isn't strong because he's dense as fuck, or Iron Man is just a showy guy because he's a womanizer.

Jul 1, 2014 3:49 AM

#241

OldBayFan

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Jun 2012

4994

Man. This arc is just as disappointing as Fairy Tail's Grand Magic Games but worse because no T&A and it's meant to be taken completely seriously.

Wouldn't be surprised if his inevitable fight with Suzaku ends up being a letdown, too.

Jul 1, 2014 4:05 AM

#242

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Apr 2008

11325

forgiuse said:

Darklight0303 said:
The lack of a majority of human emotions. Without Myiuki he would be a cold calculating killing machine.

Does the lack of emotions make him unable to blend in society ? Nope, i see him make friends just fine. Does it hinder his ability to kick ass ? The opposite, actually.
If it doesn't make an disadvantage, then it's not a weakness. Just like saying Superman isn't strong because he's dense as fuck, or Iron Man is just a showy guy because he's a womanizer.

Does he make friends, or does he just smile and nod and go along with whatever conception they have of him? Flaws can be subtle or in your face. In his case they are very subtle but it also makes him an even sadder existence in my opinion.

Jul 1, 2014 4:20 AM

#243

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May 2013

696

Darklight0303 said:
Does he make friends, or does he just smile and nod and go along with whatever conception they have of him? Flaws can be subtle or in your face. In his case they are very subtle but it also makes him an even sadder existence in my opinion.

But does it somehow hinder him? No, it doesn't have negative impact on his social relations nor combat abilities. I wolud say it's quite the opposite. So that's not an actual flaw, but rather Informed Flaw.

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jul 1, 2014 5:11 AM

#244

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Apr 2008

11325

jakkubus said:

Darklight0303 said:
Does he make friends, or does he just smile and nod and go along with whatever conception they have of him? Flaws can be subtle or in your face. In his case they are very subtle but it also makes him an even sadder existence in my opinion.

But does it somehow hinder him? No, it doesn't have negative impact on his social relations nor combat abilities. I wolud say it's quite the opposite. So that's not an actual flaw, but rather Informed Flaw.

You say that now but to me that makes him a very fragile existence. He seems to have it all under control and best of the best. WHich is what makes me interested to see that moment when he breaks. When all of that power and talent goes berserk because the one thing that could throw him out of that bubble of so called perfection actually came to pass and whoever did it now has to face the monster he can truly be.

Jul 1, 2014 5:28 AM

#245

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May 2013

696

Darklight0303 said:
You say that now but to me that makes him a very fragile existence. He seems to have it all under control and best of the best. WHich is what makes me interested to see that moment when he breaks. When all of that power and talent goes berserk because the one thing that could throw him out of that bubble of so called perfection actually came to pass and whoever did it now has to face the monster he can truly be.

I would call it rather flavour than flaw.
Also Tatsuya wont break, because it could only happen, when Miyuki were dead and author certainly wont allow it. After all he is just Satou's wish fulfilment and nothing bad can happen to him.

jakkubusJul 1, 2014 5:31 AM

No wonder, dragon with no head must be retarded.

Jul 1, 2014 5:43 AM

#246

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Apr 2008

11325

jakkubus said:

Darklight0303 said:
You say that now but to me that makes him a very fragile existence. He seems to have it all under control and best of the best. WHich is what makes me interested to see that moment when he breaks. When all of that power and talent goes berserk because the one thing that could throw him out of that bubble of so called perfection actually came to pass and whoever did it now has to face the monster he can truly be.

I would call it rather flavour than flaw.
Also Tatsuya wont break, because it could only happen, when Miyuki were dead and author certainly wont allow it. After all he is just Satou's wish fulfilment and nothing bad can happen to him.

and what if it does? You're not in the author's mind. Sure it won't happen in this season of the anime since I already have a pretty solid idea where it'll stop but it can certainly happen in the future. Authors aren't tied to acting under expectations and those that go against them usually end up on top.

There's a reason people starts getting suspicious when things go too smoothly. I don't think Mahouka will be any exception.

Jul 1, 2014 6:05 AM

#247