No Game No Life Episode 9 Discussion

Jun 4, 2014 7:46 PM

#201

fear80

Offline

Apr 2013

422

Takuan_Soho said:

DarkMoonWolf said:

Thank you, having not read the novels, was curious if it was explicitly spelled out since it would resolve one lingering problem with how I know this series is going to turn out.

Oh, on the Kurumi front, love her look when she got what Sora's ultimate aim was. She knew she could be true to both humans and to her best friend. Nice writing there.

As of 27/7/14 I have decided trap anime Sword Art Online II has more appeal than Mahouka.

Jun 4, 2014 8:04 PM

#202

Takuan_Soho

Offline

Oct 2012

6648

fear80 said:
What you heard were just assumptions made by the people who read the novels and you kinda misunderstood, there would be no 'ending up together' as you put it. This is not a romance show the novels will mostly have open ending with a 'harem' premise.

As of now yes, but authors, particularly the good ones, generally know how they want to end a series before they begin it. So the issue isn't guessing where they are now, but where you think they will end.

Darkwolfmoon: thank you. Nice backstory, but it seems clear that Kurimi and Fi have transcended that relationship. But again, time will tell.

Jun 4, 2014 8:31 PM

#203

NettoAzure

Offline

Dec 2009

460

Wow this episode brought a tear to my eye. I like how we get a lot of backstory and Shiro focus on this episode. She definitely grows a lot more character wise.

This was even more powerful to see than read. But yeah definitely reinforces why I like this adaptation a lot.

"Whether it's the real world or the virtual world, life is essentially the same."

Jun 4, 2014 8:52 PM

#204

riptidenewt

Offline

Jun 2014

1

To the haters of this anime: NGNL is an anime with great entertainment value to the majority of the people on MAL. If you are interested in writing an academic paper, choose a book in the Classic Literature section as your subject instead. This anime is purely for entertainment and we are not supposed to annotate or analyze anything from it. Just kick back, enjoy the show and try not to think of it as anything more than entertainment, would you kindly? And if you don't like this show, pick another show that entertains you more.

P/s: any noticed the BioShock reference :) ?

Jun 4, 2014 9:12 PM

#205

DreamingBeats

Offline

Nov 2011

6341

HOLIC195 said:
To the haters of this anime: NGNL is an anime with great entertainment value to the majority of the people on MAL. If you are interested in writing an academic paper, choose a book in the Classic Literature section as your subject instead. This anime is purely for entertainment and we are not supposed to annotate or analyze anything from it. Just kick back, enjoy the show and try not to think of it as anything more than entertainment, would you kindly? And if you don't like this show, pick another show that entertains you more.

P/s: any noticed the BioShock reference :) ?

i'm a hater of this show, and i still found this episode to be well done

what Bio Shock referce? /neverplayedbioshock

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Jun 4, 2014 9:16 PM

#206

antipurefaith

Offline

Apr 2012

853

that was a deep ep n we got 2 have a look at Shiros past wonder if we c Sora past 2 but theres only 3eps left :(

a season 2 would be nice n a 3rd

Jun 4, 2014 9:16 PM

#207

Flashoftheback

Offline

Feb 2014

1170

Well, it's more psychological for Shiro. I am a bit off for the pace because i read the LN, but that still on acceptable margin.

I just though maybe they can animated it better.

4/5

Jun 4, 2014 9:39 PM

#208

Toaki90

Offline

Oct 2013

469

Gee.. I wonder what's the purpose of Kenzen Robo Daimidaler. But we don't see it having a misleading rating at 8.67

HOLIC195 said:
To the haters of this anime: NGNL is an anime with great entertainment value to the majority of the people on MAL. If you are interested in writing an academic paper, choose a book in the Classic Literature section as your subject instead. This anime is purely for entertainment and we are not supposed to annotate or analyze anything from it. Just kick back, enjoy the show and try not to think of it as anything more than entertainment, would you kindly? And if you don't like this show, pick another show that entertains you more.

P/s: any noticed the BioShock reference :) ?

Characters role:
Blank: They are the story

Steph: To take the idiots role that always confuse and question every motion by blank so Blank will have the chance to explain how the story goes/the game 'rule' to the audience.

Jibril: Still don't understand? Relax! Jibril will be there to sum it up for the audience.

Toaki90Jun 4, 2014 9:55 PM

"Burn the heretics"

Jun 4, 2014 10:05 PM

#209

Rawrdaysgoby

Offline

Oct 2011

78

I find it sad that when people are judging anything on MAL. They always do it on animation/story/concept/plot/characters ya know the common stuff. Everything here already has been done by any anime. There will be no doubt about it.

No one every judges it by its execution. How well it is paced. How simple/complex it is to follow. How much detail and information is in an episode some may just be information overload or way to little detail to get the plot going. How well something plays out in ones head. How characters are placed in situations. How well someone can relate or feel to it.

Ya know the stuff that actually HELPs people engage with the anime/Ln. That is because shows may have similar plots and concepts but if it is poorly executed then it is simply bad.

Jun 4, 2014 10:37 PM

#210

Bheaze

Offline

Oct 2013

2984

man that game was intense. just to get kurami to side with sora

"Urushibara Ruka. The mannerisms and voice of a woman... No... More feminine than any woman. But he's a guy. Taller than Mayuri, but so very thin... But he's a guy. Looks great in a miko outfit... But he's a guy. It's already twilight And yet, it's so hot. The cicadas are crying. But... He's a guy."

Jun 4, 2014 10:47 PM

#211

Fiji

Offline

Dec 2011

6101

Ahh. I thought it would be the game on the animal people already. I see that Sora wants an elf to work with them.

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Jun 4, 2014 10:56 PM

#212

Jonesy974

Offline

Aug 2013

2274

Oh gawd that reunion was emotional as hell. Don't tug on my heart strings like that Madhouse, I needed the tissues at the end there. I can't even make a tissue fap joke because it was so emotional.

Jun 4, 2014 11:02 PM

#213

nonelisted

Offline

Aug 2012

125

I have to say, that was my least favorite episode so far. We've talked about the tone of the series on previous NGNL threads. I think this is one instance where it fell flat. It's a foregone conclusion that they're going to win these games. This isn't an issue when they act like their going to win and we just watch how they do it. It's fun. However, the mood in Shiro's room was dead serious. There's no real doubt Shiro is going to figure it out so why even try to put forth the idea that she won't. Nobody's buying it so there's no tension and no fun. However, I did like the Sora portion of the episode. Also, I'm not a fan of pointless back stories but at least they kept it brief.

Jun 4, 2014 11:06 PM

#214

ollythirteen

Offline

Apr 2013

559

Caleb8980 said:

ollythirteen said:
@ Takuan Soho,

Your argument about "going to a duck farm and complaining that it has ducks" isn't entirely accurate here.

I don't care if the show is the most brainless of brainless ecchi, where the premise of a show is such that plot is discarded in favour of fan service (and I mean it literally here not the sexual connotation it has but literal pleasing of fans with action, or niche subject matter like cooking or a kind of sport) if you don't like the characters you'll be bored. It's that simple.

Daimidaler is a perfect example of no story no character zero entertainment. Comparing Baby Steps and Ping Pong the Animation, both sport anime, it isn't hard to see that the latter series is more entertaining while the former seems to go through the motions of its genre (explanations, tournament, training etc) almost in a documentary style manner.

The truth of the matter is characters carry a story. It isn't possible to have a story without characters and as such it isn't possible to have a strong story without strong characters.

No Game No Life whisks away two gamers to a fantasy world. But because these two characters and the rest of the cast they meet aren't all that interesting the story itself is pretty weak. Hell this show has more in common with a sport anime what with episode to episode featuring lengthy explanations and silly battles you know the MCs will win.

It just isn't exciting bar its cheap little thrills here and there and to say it isn't accurate to blame the characters because "the show is an ecchi comedy" is inaccurate.

No matter what the genre is if you don't like the characters (because you can't identify with them) it's perfectly natural to not feel engaged.

It's like happening upon a fight. Once the fight is over (or even before it's over) what are the first words out of your mouth? Aren't they "what happened?"

And then when you've learnt for example that person A, a known philanderer, banged Person B's wife, whom Person B sunk his life savings into wooing and starting a life with, your understanding of the event you witnessed deepens and you feel...involved (because 1. Person B's wife is hot and you understand the appeal and 2. You understand how Person B feels and sympathize with him).

It's only natural to want to identify with characters where stories are concerned.

There's such a thing as "throwaway" entertainment, sure, but that never had good connotations.

It is a bit ironic that now the ones who dislike the show dislike it for the reason I like it.

Just some episodes away everyone was going on about how this was wish fulfillment for NEETs and shut-ins, to which I strongly countered that it can't be wish fulfillment because you have characters that you can't indentify with (to which btw people referred as nonsense).

Now everyone goes about the reason I said this was a risky move by the author because it can make people hate his characters to which I was responded that that was no risky move at all...

You know sth, you guys are slow.

Now why I love this anime/LN for it: Because it is sth new! Why do we always need characters one can identify with?
They are not comedic villians or sth like that but still they are people who grasp every chance they can get and forget everyone else; just like most of the people in RL do...

The very concept that you NEED to identify with characters in a story is nonsense; the less you identify with them the less you get into their pace and the more you want to distance yourself from them, and where exactly stands that this is a bad thing?

Thing is the first sentence of that last paragraph is incomplete: You NEED to identify with characters in a story... to be invested in it even just a little bit.

From allegories like the Tortoise and the Hare, to crude jokes about nuns and ministers, to idle gossip about someone you may never meet in your entire life being spoken about by colleagues during office lunch break, whatever the form the story takes if you don't recognize human traits in the players being spoken about involved in the sequence of events being pieced together (Tortoise = Slow and Steady, Hare = Arrogant/In a Hurry, they have race, tortoise wins) you won't really care.

What is meant by to "identify with" a character is the crux of the argument. You don't have to like the character. You can bloody well hate them. But you have to feel SOMETHING for them and what causes you to do that are traits you recognize in real human beings that you like/hate.

Which is where Sorashiro/Blank comes in. I don't hate them. I don't like them. I just don't care about them or their cause simply because they aren't really human to me. It doesn't help that their character is contradicting (socially withdrawn people with high intellect find themselves in a fantasy world and proceed to shake things up...um, they're supposed to be socially withdrawn).

Chances are a lot of the people watching this show don't genuinely care about these characters either and are just high off the little thrills here and there.

It's by no means a bad thing...if you don't take offense with others who feel the cheap thrills aren't enough.

Jun 4, 2014 11:07 PM

#215

Salamander2170

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Aug 2012

4703

Ah Sora's back and what a gamble that was.

Jun 4, 2014 11:10 PM

#216

lucidbrandon

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Jun 2013

1131

wow what a crazy episode! Everything was impossible to predict amazing!

Jun 4, 2014 11:21 PM

#217

ollythirteen

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Apr 2013

559

I guess it's my fault for being general. Art has many forms. Music is an art form. Sport is arguably an art form. And story-telling is the art form I mean when I say the whole point of art is to emulate real life (well, duh, animation tells stories and stories emulate real life situations?)

Even abstract art communicates real world concepts such as emotion (music primarily does this).

As for your Floyd Mayweather example, the guy's big mouth and ego helps in getting bums on seats. Hell, I would wager that some people who pay to watch him fight are waiting for the day he actually loses! But as you used boxing as a sport of choice I would wager that people pay to see people beat the shit outta each other. It isn't a heavily tactical sport.

Basketball is similar in that there's always a chance you'll see something surprising happen such as a loss. Games where the outcome is inevitable, though, you just sit there and either go through the motions or marvel at how the losing team that never stood a chance gets decimated.

In fact as long as there's a chance that the winning team will lose the game is exciting. Anime is pretty much the same way. Training arcs, much?

No one cares about an OP individual (unless they have other things going for them such as their big mouths and their day of reckoning).

Everyone loves an underdog and Blank is no underdog (even in spite of these socially withdrawn people being thrown into a world they don't recognize).

Why a Note Book though? Why a sword? Why water? These are still real things that ground the imagination in reality. They are things you can find in real life that are just tweaked for interest.

They're still very real things, though.

Takuan_Soho said:

ollythirteen said:
Daimidaler is a perfect example of no story no character zero entertainment.

Daimidaler has both character and story, it's a parody of "hot blooded/school robot series". It may not be to one's taste, or it may not be particularly well told, but it most certainly has character and story, and imo is entertaining for a borderline hentai series.

ollythirteen said:
Comparing Baby Steps and Ping Pong the Animation, both sport anime, it isn't hard to see that the latter series is more entertaining while the former seems to go through the motions of its genre (explanations, tournament, training etc) almost in a documentary style manner.

Perhaps not your best example in context of your comment about OP's that don't lose games, in that Smile has to date always won (except for when he quit playing) and in Baby Steps the lead player has lost. That said, I would agree that Ping Pong is more entertaining than Baby Steps as an animation, but that is less to do with the story, and more to do with the edgy style of Ping Pong and the fact that the appeal of Baby Steps is the slow methodical improvement that the player has, which the animation cannot capture).

ollythirteen said:
The truth of the matter is characters carry a story. It isn't possible to have a story without characters and as such it isn't possible to have a strong story without strong characters.

Fans of HP Lovecraft would say you are wrong. Horror doesn't need strong characters, neither do certain types of SF or Fantasy.

ollythirteen said:
Hell this show has more in common with a sport anime what with episode to episode featuring lengthy explanations and silly battles you know the MCs will win.

You don't watch too many sports animation do you? Besides as someone else pointed out there are plenty of suspenseful sports animations where the MC doesn't lose. Yawara would be another series you could add, and I would include Saki and Girls Und Panzer as two enjoyable shows where you know the ultimate victory, but still watch because you are enjoying HOW they do it.

One could say that Sherlock Holmes stories are dull because we always know that he will "solve" the crime (and yes, I know that there are 1 or 2 he didn't)

ollythirteen said:
No matter what the genre is if you don't like the characters (because you can't identify with them) it's perfectly natural to not feel engaged.

I think you are missing the main point. The siblings were NOT supposed to be likeable. Calling them "neets" and "hikkomori" was not meant to make them sympathetic. They made this clear during the opening when the girl they beat in the video game was drooling on about "how cool they must be", and the next words shown were "unfortunately reality is never like that" (or something to that effect). The siblings are supposed to be unlikeable and then slowly become more likeable (for instance when Sora tries his best to find a reason to justify what Steph's father did, or Shiro this episode really missing her brother and both being happy to be reunited). Plenty of posts on this thread (and the father thread) from other people said how touching they found those scenes. Do all those people's opinions not matter?

Identifiable doesn't always equal likeable and in fact doesn't have to. And my problem with these characters isn't the fact that I don't like them. It's that I don't care about them.

I didn't like Light Yagami for example, but I cared about where he'd end up because his goal, regardless of his methods, was something I could identify with. I was never a delinquent in high school but I could still identify with Kenji Harima (School Rumble), an outwardly rough person that was secretly inwardly soft.

I can't identify with a supposedly socially withdrawn brother sister team who are transported to a world they do not know and are immediately so confident they begin to wreck stuff. Why? Because they happen to be good at games and the world they are in is one where games are played on such a level that they determine the livelihood of whole civilizations.

You see that? The author's construction tools are too visible. It's like every trait they have (socially awkward, high intellect) was given to them to make them "cool":

Socially Awkward - Highly Intelligent - Good at Gaming - Transported to A Place Where Games are Played

It naturally follows that they'll "Win Every Game", which they have done, and that takes the fun out of this series for me.

They aren't real people, iie, they don't have realistic traits you'd find in real people and as such their exploits are unable to make me care.

They are (1.) perfect people (the hikkikomori thing being nothing but ornament) that have been (2.) placed in a situation that is perfect for them where their perfection means they will thrive.

There's no challenge or struggle.

Where's the fun in that?

And to make matters worse, every time they aren't winning games we are reminded that they're soooo smart and soooo good at games as opposed to learn it for ourselves through their actions (which are overly explained).

Mod Edit: Merged posts; please use the edit button.

julyanJun 5, 2014 3:33 AM

Jun 4, 2014 11:47 PM

#218

Trizept

Offline

Mar 2013

2483

Absolutely insane :)
I've heard that Fil and Steph are going to play a major role in taking over the Eastern Federation >.> Hope that's true...

Jun 5, 2014 12:03 AM

#219

CreamZi

Offline

May 2013

1807

Sora has returned. Though I was expecting like 2 more episodes until he returned.
I understand that they were afraid. It really was a big gamble.

Jun 5, 2014 12:15 AM

#220

Genix

Offline

Aug 2008

1368

Ooh, the power of trust. I liked how they modified last ep's ending to fit the episode, it was a nice touch. You really feel the dedication and attention to detail.

To me, Sora is way cooler than Shiro. He's got brains and quick wits. Shiro has it too, but Sora is more assertive and determined. And their teamwork and trust bordering on mind reading territories makes them OP.

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Jun 5, 2014 12:25 AM

#221

improper

Offline

Aug 2013

353

Had to give some effort to understand this episode fully, dangit >.>
Still, nice episode!

Jun 5, 2014 12:50 AM

#222

mirailianil

Offline

Dec 2011

33

ollythirteen said:

Why a Note Book though? Why a sword? Why water? These are still real things that ground the imagination in reality. They are things you can find in real life that are just tweaked for interest.

They're still very real things, though.

A neet and hikki is real though, and here they are tweaked for"interest" Saying you cannot have a NEET and hikki that is very good as games is the same as saying that you cannot have a flying homing sword, by your logic

ollythirteen said:

Identifiable doesn't always equal likeable and in fact doesn't have to. And my problem with these characters isn't the fact that I don't like them. It's that I don't care about them.

I didn't like Light Yagami for example, but I cared about where he'd end up because his goal, regardless of his methods, was something I could identify with. I was never a delinquent in high school but I could still identify with Kenji Harima (School Rumble), an outwardly rough person that was secretly inwardly soft.

I can't identify with a supposedly socially withdrawn brother sister team who are transported to a world they do not know and are immediately so confident they begin to wreck stuff. Why? Because they happen to be good at games and the world they are in is one where games are played on such a level that they determine the livelihood of whole civilizations.

You see that? The author's construction tools are too visible. It's like every trait they have (socially awkward, high intellect) was given to them to make them "cool":

Socially Awkward - Highly Intelligent - Good at Gaming - Transported to A Place Where Games are Played

It naturally follows that they'll "Win Every Game", which they have done, and that takes the fun out of this series for me.

They aren't real people, iie, they don't have realistic traits you'd find in real people and as such their exploits are unable to make me care.

They are (1.) perfect people (the hikkikomori thing being nothing but ornament) that have been (2.) placed in a situation that is perfect for them where their perfection means they will thrive.

There's no challenge or struggle.

Where's the fun in that?

And to make matters worse, every time they aren't winning games we are reminded that they're soooo smart and soooo good at games as opposed to learn it for ourselves through their actions (which are overly explained).

I do not know if you have noticed, but from the very first episode, the very reason Tet transported them to that world precisely because they are so good at games.That is the very premise. Saying that you do not like those premises 9 episodes in...have you just realise this now?

Also, the reasons people say Blank are cool are not because they are Neet or Hikki, it is because they are confident, and their overall attitude about games.

And the thing about "Socially withdrawn but can shake the world"... They are basically "reborn" in that world, a blank slate for Kuuhaku. Here they can start anew, and no one will judge them in similar way as those in the Old World. So why cant them be more confident?

About they cannot lose, the same can be said about other mc. We know Naruto/Natsu/most shounen hero will always win serious fight, even if they lost, its just temporary. We know Conan will almost always solve the case, and so on.

Edit:

ollythirteen said:
No one cares about an OP individual
(unless they have other things going
for them such as their big mouths
and their day of reckoning).
Everyone loves an underdog and
Blank is no underdog (even in spite
of these socially withdrawn people
being thrown into a world they don't
recognize).

...Yea...my brother and his friends are big fans on Manchester United... and it seemed that MU is almost always at the top half of the league of football, or so he says. So, is MU an underdog club? Does people like MU because of underdog status?

mirailianilJun 5, 2014 5:21 AM

Jun 5, 2014 1:00 AM

#223

neonBdragon

Offline

Jul 2012

2247

That was a brilliant game that Shiro played just to prove a point.

Great episode!!!

Jun 5, 2014 1:16 AM

#224

TragicRomance

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May 2010

8099

It was nice to see Dola trusting blank. Kurami joined the gang! That last scene was funny.

Good episode, I guess.

Jun 5, 2014 1:18 AM

#225

Benphyre

Offline

Dec 2013

2599

Intense episode. One of my favorite anime this year.

Somehow I feel Shiro's love for Sora is beyond sisterly love. Flugel looking cute as always. Enjoyed her side boob fans service.

Stay in yesterday 時を止めて

Jun 5, 2014 1:42 AM

#226

Diogo_Brando

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Sep 2012

536

Once again, amazing episode! 5/5

Jun 5, 2014 1:52 AM

#227

xxdeathx

Offline

Nov 2013

495

Holy hell this episode was a *perfect* followup from last episode's cliffhanger. Everything played out beautifully...the music that played as Shiro realized she was still in the game, just wow. I thought it was gonna be a game against the warbeasts but this worked out amazingly.

11 Stephs/10

Jun 5, 2014 2:52 AM

#228

Ixmo

Offline

Jun 2014

1

Great anime. Great episode. Really glad I stumbled upon it.

Looking forward to see what Sora & Shiro have planned next. Both of them have some pretty crazy ideas.

Jun 5, 2014 3:00 AM

#229

GD1551

Offline

Oct 2010

5252

Shiro is a terrible character and her voice is super annoying. I guess that's to be expected, looking at the VA's characters from the shows I've seen she's done. Inori from GC, Hana from Captain Earth, Pino from Valvrave, Saaya from Gargantia and Mayaka from Hyouka.. essentially she does quite a few stupid and annoying characters.

Jun 5, 2014 3:24 AM

#230

Sh4de

Offline

Apr 2013

229

The 'games' just get more ridiculous every episode.
I'm probably missing the point they're trying to make, but I'm just not entertained by any of it

Jun 5, 2014 3:35 AM

#231

julyan

Offline

Aug 2012

4162

Thread Cleaned.

Refrain from posting off-topic remarks. One liners such as 'Good Episode' is considered as spam and is subject for removal. They don't encourage any discussion.

And please keep the debate/argument civil and clean.

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Jun 5, 2014 3:53 AM

#232

sheidesu

Offline

May 2012

1795

SORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I WANNA HUG YOU TOOOOOOO!!! Shocks. I was worried... Really... I missed him so much!

Jun 5, 2014 4:17 AM

#233

zerriet

Offline

Nov 2013

210

mirailianil said:

ollythirteen said:

Why a Note Book though? Why a sword? Why water? These are still real things that ground the imagination in reality. They are things you can find in real life that are just tweaked for interest.

They're still very real things, though.

A neet and hikki is real though, and here they are tweaked for"interest" Saying you cannot have a NEET and hikki that is very good as games is the same as saying that you cannot have a flying homing sword, by your logic

ollythirteen said:

Identifiable doesn't always equal likeable and in fact doesn't have to. And my problem with these characters isn't the fact that I don't like them. It's that I don't care about them.

I didn't like Light Yagami for example, but I cared about where he'd end up because his goal, regardless of his methods, was something I could identify with. I was never a delinquent in high school but I could still identify with Kenji Harima (School Rumble), an outwardly rough person that was secretly inwardly soft.

I can't identify with a supposedly socially withdrawn brother sister team who are transported to a world they do not know and are immediately so confident they begin to wreck stuff. Why? Because they happen to be good at games and the world they are in is one where games are played on such a level that they determine the livelihood of whole civilizations.

You see that? The author's construction tools are too visible. It's like every trait they have (socially awkward, high intellect) was given to them to make them "cool":

Socially Awkward - Highly Intelligent - Good at Gaming - Transported to A Place Where Games are Played

It naturally follows that they'll "Win Every Game", which they have done, and that takes the fun out of this series for me.

They aren't real people, iie, they don't have realistic traits you'd find in real people and as such their exploits are unable to make me care.

They are (1.) perfect people (the hikkikomori thing being nothing but ornament) that have been (2.) placed in a situation that is perfect for them where their perfection means they will thrive.

There's no challenge or struggle.

Where's the fun in that?

And to make matters worse, every time they aren't winning games we are reminded that they're soooo smart and soooo good at games as opposed to learn it for ourselves through their actions (which are overly explained).

I do not know if you have noticed, but from the very first episode, the very reason Tet transported them to that world precisely because they are so good at games.That is the very premise. Saying that you do not like those premises 9 episodes in...have you just realise this now?

Also, the reasons people say Blank are cool are not because they are Neet or Hikki, it is because they are confident, and their overall attitude about games.

And the thing about "Socially withdrawn but can shake the world"... They are basically "reborn" in that world, a blank slate for Kuuhaku. Here they can start anew, and no one will judge them in similar way as those in the Old World. So why cant them be more confident?

About they cannot lose, the same can be said about other mc. We know Naruto/Natsu/most shounen hero will always win serious fight, even if they lost, its just temporary. We know Conan will almost always solve the case, and so on.

absolutely agree with your viewpoint, imho ollythirteen and Kaioshin_Sama need to understand that different characters need to be understood through different perspectives and an open mind. The Blank duo have technically lost the most important game initially and that was their lives because being shunned by society for being superior in an aspect is no small matter. The premise of them being transported to another world indicates that they were given another chance to do what they love without society despising them. The nature of cool is not so much to do with winning games since to them, everything is at stake. It is more to do with like how a previous user quoted, their confident personality. It is trying to emphasise the value of trust and indicate that together they will overcome all odds but apart, they breakdown in defeat. This was further emphasised in the chess game.

Watch this with a more open mind and realise that their bond is anything but superficial or fake.

Anime gave me more life lessons than school

Jun 5, 2014 4:46 AM

#234

GreenDrag

Offline

Jun 2008

214

The people complaining about how Sora is always badass: you can blame this on MH. While it is nice to see something like that, I might have preferred Sora panicking over no longer getting what's going on (he did lose a good chunk of his self by than). Also, this episode did reveal, that even if Sora acts confident, it's mostly an act, put up to fool his enemies.

Jun 5, 2014 5:09 AM

#235

Gilith

Offline

Nov 2009

21

Great episode ! :3

For people wondering how Shiro managed to end the game without seing the board, it's a othello game, if you see where the last piece are (she can see it since the other player must be able to finish the game if the other one disapear, they said it in the rules), then it's easy to see the entire board and since Shiro know by heart how Sora play, she can easily know where are the other game pieces she can't see and where to put hers.

I really loved this episode, it was well done in the realisation and how things went togather :).

Jun 5, 2014 6:03 AM

#236

MasterQuest

Offline

Jan 2013

284

I was actually sad at the beginning.
Awesome episode!

Jun 5, 2014 6:44 AM

#237

xNihalx

Offline

Jul 2012

568

Sora, you are back, Yokattaaaaa!

Jun 5, 2014 7:21 AM

#238

greatlaharl

Offline

Oct 2011

9

http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Jun 5, 2014 7:24 AM

#239

GreenDrag

Offline

Jun 2008

214

greatlaharl said:
http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Madhouse either wasn't playing attention, or went and trolled the fans. If you consider how Code Geass' mistake made some fans, it isn't that unlikely...

Jun 5, 2014 7:30 AM

#240

UnleashTheGoat

Offline

Apr 2014

641

It's official now: the main characters in this series are absolutely, indubitably mad. Sora first bets the basic human rights of three million human beings, then he bets his own existence. Kurami is crazy for participating in such a game. Jibril (side character though) never lets a chance sli/de to point out she's an insane killing machine.
...
Hot damn I love this series.

To the episode: we got to know a bit more about the past of Shiro and Sora, but a lot is still unclear. After that, Shiro is a total boss and demonstrates how next level her intelligence really is. Then we get one of the most intense games so far, although a little short. I loved how they pictured Sora after he lost his memories, as if he could barely manage to keep himself together. Little to no fanservice here, but a lot of drama and tension. This episode barely felt like ten, let alone twenty minutes.

Next week is probably the start of the game with the Eastern Empire, I'm really looking forward to that. My mind is still blown from this episode, so I can't even begin to speculate as to what is going to happen from here on out. A week feels so long all of a sudden.

Edit: after reading through the forums a bit, I wish people would stop being so elitist about shows. Degrading people who think this show is AOTS because one prefers Ping Pong or Mushishi is a bit childish imho. Ping Pong is amazing, and although I haven't watched the first season of Mushishi yet and thus I'm not following it now, I'm sure it is very good too. However, among the shows I'm following this season, NGNL stands at the top in intensity, tension and sheer enjoyment. I can agree that, from a storytelling aspect, Ping Pong is a lot better. But I find myself looking forward to NGNL with an almost zealous intensity each week, more so than with Ping Pong, which I like for very different reasons. Nidhoegrr, there's no need to generalize so much.

ollythirteen said:
the fact that the whole point of art is to emulate (copy) (real) life...

Art as mimesis was already denounced by Plato, was completely disregarded during the romantic age (early 1800) and mangled beyond recognition in avant-garde and post-modernism. You haven't been getting your facts straight during your rants here, so either you're trolling or you're just ignorant.

UnleashTheGoatJun 5, 2014 8:09 AM

"Though mountains crack, and ice will thaw

Though walls will fall, to tooth and claw

Though stars will fade, and shadow spread

On the heights we stood, with iron red.

And as they died, they killed the dead.

Jun 5, 2014 7:39 AM

#241

HaXXspetten

*hug noises*

Offline

May 2013

31449

man how does the author even think up these games and scenarios, they're just SO out there as far as originality goes, I just love it :3

Jun 5, 2014 7:55 AM

#242

ollythirteen

Offline

Apr 2013

559

mirailianil said:

ollythirteen said:

Why a Note Book though? Why a sword? Why water? These are still real things that ground the imagination in reality. They are things you can find in real life that are just tweaked for interest.

They're still very real things, though.

A neet and hikki is real though, and here they are tweaked for"interest" Saying you cannot have a NEET and hikki that is very good as games is the same as saying that you cannot have a flying homing sword, by your logic

ollythirteen said:

Identifiable doesn't always equal likeable and in fact doesn't have to. And my problem with these characters isn't the fact that I don't like them. It's that I don't care about them.

I didn't like Light Yagami for example, but I cared about where he'd end up because his goal, regardless of his methods, was something I could identify with. I was never a delinquent in high school but I could still identify with Kenji Harima (School Rumble), an outwardly rough person that was secretly inwardly soft.

I can't identify with a supposedly socially withdrawn brother sister team who are transported to a world they do not know and are immediately so confident they begin to wreck stuff. Why? Because they happen to be good at games and the world they are in is one where games are played on such a level that they determine the livelihood of whole civilizations.

You see that? The author's construction tools are too visible. It's like every trait they have (socially awkward, high intellect) was given to them to make them "cool":

Socially Awkward - Highly Intelligent - Good at Gaming - Transported to A Place Where Games are Played

It naturally follows that they'll "Win Every Game", which they have done, and that takes the fun out of this series for me.

They aren't real people, iie, they don't have realistic traits you'd find in real people and as such their exploits are unable to make me care.

They are (1.) perfect people (the hikkikomori thing being nothing but ornament) that have been (2.) placed in a situation that is perfect for them where their perfection means they will thrive.

There's no challenge or struggle.

Where's the fun in that?

And to make matters worse, every time they aren't winning games we are reminded that they're soooo smart and soooo good at games as opposed to learn it for ourselves through their actions (which are overly explained).

I do not know if you have noticed, but from the very first episode, the very reason Tet transported them to that world precisely because they are so good at games.That is the very premise. Saying that you do not like those premises 9 episodes in...have you just realise this now?

Also, the reasons people say Blank are cool are not because they are Neet or Hikki, it is because they are confident, and their overall attitude about games.

And the thing about "Socially withdrawn but can shake the world"... They are basically "reborn" in that world, a blank slate for Kuuhaku. Here they can start anew, and no one will judge them in similar way as those in the Old World. So why cant them be more confident?

About they cannot lose, the same can be said about other mc. We know Naruto/Natsu/most shounen hero will always win serious fight, even if they lost, its just temporary. We know Conan will almost always solve the case, and so on.

Edit:

ollythirteen said:
No one cares about an OP individual
(unless they have other things going
for them such as their big mouths
and their day of reckoning).
Everyone loves an underdog and
Blank is no underdog (even in spite
of these socially withdrawn people
being thrown into a world they don't
recognize).

...Yea...my brother and his friends are big fans on Manchester United... and it seemed that MU is almost always at the top half of the league of football, or so he says. So, is MU an underdog club? Does people like MU because of underdog status?

To your 1ST POINT: creating a human being based on reality versus creating objects (flying swords) and situations (the power to kill evil with a magical notebook) based on reality are two different kinds of story alchemy. In fact you have to be more careful with the characters than the situations/objects because the characters make the unreal situation/object seem more real and relatable!

You can make a sword fly, have it be powered by souls, and let it be stored and retrieved from between a demon girl's 44g boobs (Blue Exorcist) or whatever else your imagination cooks up and no one will complain because they want to see the impossible.

Not so with characters, though. Sure, you can make your character fall into a third gender (Knights of Sidonia), be a Flugel (this show), a Shinigami (Death Note), a god (Noragami) or whatever else constitutes as super human/natural BUT if their personalities aren't human or based on a personality type you've come across before in reality, you'll have a hard time making people care about your characters.

(again I stress you don't have to have liked the person. Hating them is just as fine too).

In some cases the plot may cover for the lack of strong characterization but for me this show (and KLK, which I mentioned before) doesn't have that either (strong plot developments to compensate for characters I feel nothing for).

Which brings me to your 2ND POINT: here's the thing, I never said I hated the premise. Also people don't judge socially withdrawn people or otaku "just because". They judge them for very valid reasons, most prominent of all being that these kind of people are so fixated on their "interests" and little else that they're at a loss when they find themselves in a social situation. Which makes them "weird" (if they're too old). Additionally, Naruto and co still LOSE, though, even if it's temporary and they win later on. That's what makes them a lot more human than these two. Blank not only wins every game but are kinda obnoxious about it too (well, Sora is).

And finally, I think your support for Man U runs deeper than them being a winning team. You'll probably still support them even if they lose. And I'm sure that them losing a few games against worthy opponents or them winning against particularly strong opponents (Chelsea, Man City etc) was more interesting to watch than them mowing down lesser clubs, no?

ollythirteenJun 5, 2014 8:02 AM

Jun 5, 2014 7:57 AM

#243

shcboomer

Offline

Feb 2013

716

That was a great episode. Really loving this show so far. I liked the way they resolved that arc.

Part of Refrain Subs for Little Busters!: Refrain
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Jun 5, 2014 8:12 AM

#244

Caleb8980

Offline

Feb 2014

422

greatlaharl said:
http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Well she did not loose before she moved that Knight, pls remember this screenshot is AFTER she moved it, before, it was standing next to Shiro's queen and she could have beaten Jibrils queen, hence it was only check and not checkmate.

To be honest I never had the case in playing chess were I was check and I could move a piece so that the opponent would be in checkmate...also I don't even know if you have to move out of check if you can win with your next move, seeing as you don't even have to announce "Check" (yes this is a rule, you don't have to) so theoretically it could go by unnoticed.

Normally you would loose in the next turn after check but she won in hers :D

Jun 5, 2014 8:24 AM

#245

ollythirteen

Offline

Apr 2013

559

Still @ Mirailianil,

left some stuff out regarding our main characters. Sora and Shiro haven't been humanized yet in a flashback. We haven't seen that they were judged by society only that Sora was a faker and people pleaser, Shiro a genius and the genius realized that the faker was faking and told him so and pow! sparks flew (very weak way to form a bond in my opinion, especially one that is touted as incredibly strong and deep as theirs).

But even if it eventually comes (their humanization) the damage has already been done for some (myself included). We've seen Sora taunt others, mock them, insult their fathers (he apologized because "plot") and just be a condescending, arrogant dick in general, act or otherwise. This is someone you say I should sympathize with because society judged him?

If that's the case then he's nothing more than a downtrodden person who has found themselves in a position of power and has completely forgotten what it's like to be downtrodden. That's his "rebirth"? Meh.

Also the contradictions in Sora's character is just too much. On Earth he was a social outcast. Suddenly he's in a new world and takes risky gambles such as gambling with his existence and so on? It just isn't a realistic progression, his love for games and confidence in his ability otherwise.

Same goes for the way he's used his intelligence to become king, start wars, get people on his side and so on. It just isn't realistic since they've pushed the whole "rebirth" angle.

Remember how I said realism applies to characters but you can go wild with plot situations and objects? Sora's personality just does not follow. It isn't logical or "human" i.e. a social introvert suddenly being so extroverted because "I good at games, this game world, me go wild".

Even if the decision was conscious (their "rebirth") old habits die hard.

I've said too much for someone who's dropped the bloody show. I'm done now.

ollythirteenJun 5, 2014 8:28 AM

Jun 5, 2014 8:25 AM

#246

greatlaharl

Offline

Oct 2011

9

Caleb8980 said:

greatlaharl said:
http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Well she did not loose before she moved that Knight, pls remember this screenshot is AFTER she moved it, before, it was standing next to Shiro's queen and she could have beaten Jibrils queen, hence it was only check and not checkmate.

To be honest I never had the case in playing chess were I was check and I could move a piece so that the opponent would be in checkmate...also I don't even know if you have to move out of check if you can win with your next move, seeing as you don't even have to announce "Check" (yes this is a rule, you don't have to) so theoretically it could go by unnoticed.

Normally you would loose in the next turn after check but she won in hers :D

If you turn to the part where Shiro moved the Knight piece. The Knight's position poses no threat to the Black Queen

Okay,since you didn't pay attention to this part of the episode, I'll just have to show you: http://i.imgur.com/WZSLNr1.jpg

btw, chess rules say that even if your move "checkmates" your opponent, your move is illegal if you are still in check after you move.

greatlaharlJun 5, 2014 8:38 AM

Jun 5, 2014 8:34 AM

#247

Ajunky

Offline

Oct 2010

1291

Caleb8980 said:

greatlaharl said:
http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Well she did not loose before she moved that Knight, pls remember this screenshot is AFTER she moved it, before, it was standing next to Shiro's queen and she could have beaten Jibrils queen, hence it was only check and not checkmate.

To be honest I never had the case in playing chess were I was check and I could move a piece so that the opponent would be in checkmate...also I don't even know if you have to move out of check if you can win with your next move, seeing as you don't even have to announce "Check" (yes this is a rule, you don't have to) so theoretically it could go by unnoticed.

Normally you would loose in the next turn after check but she won in hers :D

Then it was an invalid move on Shiro's account, she cannot check the white king without taking her own out of check or it would be theoretically captured the next move (knight takes king).

Assuming the white queen was between the black queen and knight, her only valid move would be to capture the knight (since she was checked by the knight, not the queen)

Personally, I don't see the problem with Shiro losing and simply throwing a symbolic tandrum, it's not like she lost anything since the bet was for her false memories of Sora, of which she had none.

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller

Jun 5, 2014 8:38 AM

#248

Caleb8980

Offline

Feb 2014

422

greatlaharl said:

Caleb8980 said:

greatlaharl said:
http://i.imgur.com/gfBw077.jpg

Here, the White King (Shiro's piece) was clearly checkmated by the Black Queen before Shiro moved the Knight piece to checkmate the Black King. Jibril had already won before Shiro moved the Knight.

Unless my Chess logic is wrong orz. How the hell did Shiro win...?

Well she did not loose before she moved that Knight, pls remember this screenshot is AFTER she moved it, before, it was standing next to Shiro's queen and she could have beaten Jibrils queen, hence it was only check and not checkmate.

To be honest I never had the case in playing chess were I was check and I could move a piece so that the opponent would be in checkmate...also I don't even know if you have to move out of check if you can win with your next move, seeing as you don't even have to announce "Check" (yes this is a rule, you don't have to) so theoretically it could go by unnoticed.

Normally you would loose in the next turn after check but she won in hers :D

If you turn to the part where Shiro moved the Knight piece. The Knight's position poses no threat to the Black Queen

Okay,since you didn't pay attention to this part of the episode, I'll just have to show you: http://i.imgur.com/WZSLNr1.jpg

O_O did totally not see that the Knight could have stood in front of the Queen, too xD

Well yes I guess MH messed a bit up there, I mean sth that bothers me since I saw it in the episode is how Jibril's knight magically changed its point of view also how the hell did Jibril's King even end up there? :D

EDIT: I mean it is not hard to get it there, 3 turns, but why would you even do that? ^^

Caleb8980Jun 5, 2014 8:46 AM

Jun 5, 2014 8:38 AM

#249

Ajunky

Offline

Oct 2010

1291

greatlaharl said:
Okay,since you didn't pay attention to this part of the episode, I'll just have to show you: http://i.imgur.com/WZSLNr1.jpg

Ah wait, was Shiro playing white?

EDIT: Ok, nevermind what I said before, just got a bit confused with you first screenshot.

Still, I don't see the problem with Shiro losing this game (she is not Blank by herself).

AjunkyJun 5, 2014 8:48 AM

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain"
Friedrich Schiller

Jun 5, 2014 8:44 AM

#250

Yamirei

Offline

Feb 2014

596

Best episode yet!
I absolutely love the way how Sora and Shiro thinks. It's incredibly awesome.

My favourite color is blue.

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