No Game No Life (light novel)
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| This anime is too awesome! Sora is gonna conquer the world. I can't help myself. I have to say this, May the light of Zvezda shine throughout this world! lol |
| What an amazing speech!! Awesome episode. |
| @jiraiya_sensei: I have somewhat good explanation as to why Kurami was so suprised by the things Sora did in the game, like just ignoring turns for example. You said yourself Kurami grew up in a world where everything is decided by games with different rules and that is exactly why she didn't see it coming - Do you think she knows how a RTS works? Does she even know how a real war works beyond stuff she maybe read in a book. She set up the game with the exspectation that Sora had the same view and understanding of the world as she has. So if you play with someone who grew up in a world where everything is decided by games and their rules and you made it look like the game was chess, would you expect from him that he would even come up with the idea that something like skipping a turn is possible? Probably not, because a person like that would just believe the rules of chess are set in stone and that she only has a advantage because of the bonus "charisma" rule or cheats with magic. And this as far as Kurami was probaly prepared with her counter meassures and you see that she had even more than that, but it was just not enough. Becauses Sora is not from her world - His understanding of how a war works is completely different from hers, shaped by history and multimedia. And not only that, he is a gamer that plays RTS games and simulations of all varieties that don't even exist in this medieval fantasy world of board and card games. Who do think has the upper hand in that match? As soon as Sora realized that it's not chess but more leadership based strategy game, of course he would come up with a million things on the spot to try that Kurami couldn't even read about in a book in her world. And she on the other hand couldn't grasp how someone was able to immidiatly could go this far beyond the understanding of a game he was supposed to think is chess. (I hope I made it understandable what I mean. ^^' ) --- The speech in this episode was awesome btw. |
DancingJackMay 1, 2014 12:02 PM
| "The fool who believed in miracles now walks among the dead." ~ Blade of the Phantom Master |
| The speech was so amazing!! And at the end when Tet(*yay* for Tet) appeared, the OST was sooooo amazing :O. STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPH and SHIROOOOOOOOOOOOO <333 Ugh can't wait for next week. Every episode so far has been so amazing. Hopefully it'll stay as good as it's been so far :33. Would be even better if it gets more awesome D: Thank you madhouse for this anime! |
jiraiya_sensei said: What Sora did was nothing but a common sense yet no one in that world ever think that way. It's just... wow... no wonder they were on the brink of extinction What is common sense to you is innovation for an avarage person from the middle ages. You know? The time when being able to read counted as a very educated skill, and maths was the work of demons. And the developements in "this world's" case were mostly fueled by the need, that war presented. Without that drive, technology can become stangant. jiraiya_sensei said: Even if you can't use magic, you'd think there would be someone with enough courage to lead the people and I can't believe no one is sneaky enough to win games the Sora way i.e. the bullshit way. It certainly didn't take much brain power to defeat magic if we go by that "chess" game and plus you can cheat for fucks sake. You just need enough bravado and trickery yet not one member of Imanity had that kind of guile. The reason why the game of "chess" was prepared is because Kurami thought, that Sora can see through her initial cheat. The "chess" game had much more subtle magic in it, and thus made Kurami hope, that it won't be detected. All the while [ ] was laughing beind her back. Plus preconceptions. Humanity (sorry, Imanity) had the mindset, that no matter what race they play againts, they will lose, and so it happened. If you believe, that you will lose (and let the sodding this spiral around a bit), you WILL lose. clannadlover said: Seeing as how it will all end up as a bunch of games anyway there really isnt too much pressure on Imanity. As opposed to some other anime with a more realistic depiction of war like say Shingeki no Kyojin, where in that case they really are in a desperate struggle where they are besieged at all sides and actually feel the pressure of being pushed backed and crushed. And that is what's scary about it. It doesn't APPEAR to have much pressure. Apart from the fact that there's also attrition, that kills off the people. Attrition tends to come into play when there's a lack of food production to feed the people, not enough doctors to go around the sick, or simply a general lack of resources, which, BTW is the case for Imanity. While the situation is not extreme yet, it was bound to happen eventually. clannadlover said: In Blank's case there worst case scenario is what, 15 games in a row from each of the races? That is not to say that it isnt cool of course, there is no doubt about it being awesome, the only thing is that compared to a version where lives are at stake to a certain degree, declaring war against all sides is kind of not so impacting. Actually, the worst [ ] can get from the games is total annihilation. |
DancingJack said: She set up the game with the exspectation that Sora had the same view and understanding of the world as she has. So if you play with someone who grew up in a world where everything is decided by games and their rules and you made it look like the game was chess, would you expect from him that he would even come up with the idea that something like skipping a turn is possible? Probably not, because a person like that would just believe the rules of chess are set in stone and that she only has a advantage because of the bonus "charisma" rule or cheats with magic. And this as far as Kurami was probaly prepared with her counter meassures and you see that she had even more than that, but it was just not enough. Except that it's also a world built on deceit and trickery. Yes there are games but these games are often nothing but a facade of who can cheat better. Naturally living in this type of world, I'd assume she has come up against a variety of opponents from those who cheat their way into victory to those who would come up with unexpected moves. Kurami looked wholly unprepared to me because she set up her game like a beginner and played like a beginner. Anticipating your opponent's moves is an essential skill when playing games and Kurami doesn't play like she had a wealth of experience that she should have. I also don't believe that she'd think for one second Sora would be deceived that they were playing chess. This whole "chess" concept was torn down as soon as Kurami made her move. This is the most important point: She obviously knew it's not a chess game (she set it up after all) & she knew basic rules of chess doesn't apply. Naturally, as I've pointed so many times, she should also expect Sora to figure out that it's not chess sooner or later. So then why would she be caught off guard that Sora is using non-chess strategy or break those rules? She got to decide the game, she got to decide the rules, and what did she do? she came up with a war game disguised as a chess. Would a sensible person choose the kind of game that he/she would be at a disadvantage? of course not. Your point that she doesn't know much about war makes no sense. I think it's fair enough to assume that Kurami should at least know the basics of war strategy that she chose that kind of game otherwise that's just the author is purposely making her dumb to make Sora looked good. TakuanSoho said: Kurumi came up with the idea of having the pieces containing "free will" because she knew that she could compel her pieces forward, but that lacking magic, the pieces would not be willing to "sacrifice" themselves. What she was expecting was for Sora to use his magic, and then it would be a game of forcing the other person to expose that they were cheating. Sora instead took Kurumi's "free will" argument and ran with it in ways she did not understand (not being a charismatic leader herself). So while she was using elven magic to move her pieces, he got that he could motivate his pieces to be willing to sacrifice himself, and to take the fact that Kurumi was using force and use that as a motivation. There's also a big flaw here. There's no reason for Kurami to expect Sora & Shiro to be able to use magic since she assumed they were Steph's servant and look exactly like the Imanity race (cos they're actually human, duh..). As I said in my previous post, Kurami's prior knowledge that it was a fake chess game and the way she set it up should allow her to win without needing to cheat. Her approach to the game just doesn't make sense considering she had such huge advantage. Another thing is why would she set it up in a way that these pieces have "free will" yet she herself is forcing them to move with magic? the advantage she got from doing that isn't worth the risk it entails (for one she shouldn't be alien to the concept of traitors, giving free will is just suicide in this case). Couple that with her contradictory political views and action that I mentioned several posts back, it's almost as if she's setting herself up to lose from the very beginning. There's also a question as to how these pieces can even override the elven's magic that's controlling them. If the magic can force them to move against their free will, why should Sora's speech made them turn against Kurami? |
MoeGodMay 1, 2014 1:11 PM
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jiraiya_sensei said: I believe it was stated that if one's will can overpower the others then the piece will not obey, much like in this game. It also depends on what those who're playing the game do. If one were to force oppression then the free will given to them would allow the switch in sides. So even though the magic kept them in check it was unable to keep them bound because of Sora's speech which apparently was strong enough to overtake the magic after raising the morale of his and Kurami's pieces. It does strike me as odd that she'd take such precautionary steps to ensure victory. Though one could say she was simply over predicting her opponents. Not only that but it also brings up the reason as to why all of imanity is in such a poor state. Even it's own people can't believe that someone of their own kind can win against anyone other than themselves. As a matter of fact I just answered the question as to why she used magic. Her original thought was that the twins were from imanity "which to an extent is true" and because of this she believed they were using some form of magic not seen yet. Otherwise why would anyone challenge her? I believe this is why she set up such precautions. Unfortunately for her she didn't know what she was really up against. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:35 AM
| "A cruel world is not without it's beauty, and many times a select few find it by mistake. Only then do those select few see the world for what it is... A disastrous masterpiece." ~ 7thVoid "Hates a river that only flows down." ~ 7thVoid |
Caleb8980 said: She chose a game that would give her the best way to cheat without being discovered. Her only cheat was the brainwashing, nothing else and that alone is hard to discover, because as shown pieces can defect quite easily. Without the free will of the pieces the game would not have looked fair from an outstander's point of view. If only Clammy could move her pieces like she wanted that would be a quite obvious fraud, don't you think so, too? Also yes her pieces were controlled by magic but in the end that magic is not omnipotent. The moment she gave the pieces a free will this was a risk she took, but she took it because once again her cheating needed to be hidden. It is only cheating if the game was an actual chess, it's obviously not. Why do you think the old man wasn't even surprised Kurami's pieces broke the most basic chess rule? Even if only Kurami's pieces move according to her will it won't look like fraud because it was never a chess game, it's a war game and to the old man, it'd only look as if Kurami has more charisma thus her pieces move that way and Sora's doesn't. Her magic may not be omnipotent but it's strong enough to override the most basic instinct of survival. It just seems weird for them to be intimidated by Sora's speech. Besides as I pointed out earlier, there are so many chances to kill off the game regardless of free will or magic due to Kurami's prior knowledge of what can or can't be done (which sadly, she didn't seem to possess for some reason). Caleb8980 said: I underlined the important part...she assumed (and that was even openly said in a monologue from her in this episode) that Sora and Shiro were backed by another country and aimed to claim Imanity's throne for that country. I also answered that it's a moot point UNLESS it's actually possible to give Imanity (which Sora and Shiro clearly belonged to) the ability to use magic thus her thought process just doesn't add up. Sora & Shiro came there only with Steph (who also can't use magic) so no matter what kind of backing they had, the logical assumption should be that they can't use magic. In any case, it's pretty much irrelevant anyway. I told you she was terribly unprepared because she didn't prepare for even the simplest scenario. An experienced gamer like her should be able to prepare for both possibilities but in this case, she only considered one. |
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Takuan_Soho said: That was explained in this episode and the last one as well. Kurumi knows that humans cannot beat magic, she knows that all humans know that, so that Sora was so confident about winning despite knowing that she had elf magic on her side could have only meant to her that they had some other country helping them with their magic. And she didn't think for one second that Sora might be bluffing? that his confidence is just a mind game (this is despite ardent believe that humans can't win against magic)? growing up in a world full of lies and trickery, the natural thing to do would be not to trust anyone. How does "seemingly confident winning the game" suddenly jumped to "some other countries backing them up"? Either way as I said above unless it's actually possible to give imanity magic, she really has no reason to be scared even if some other country did back Shiro & Sora. As it is right now even Kurami doesn't seem to understand her world very well. Btw I'm gonna sleep first. I'll continue later on. |
MoeGodMay 1, 2014 2:04 PM
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jiraiya_sensei said: I think the fact that it wasn't a regular chess game is the least of its problem. The biggest flaw is that Kurami prepared the game and thus she must have known that it's basically a war simulator but for one reason or another she neither prepare sufficient tactic nor was prepared that her opponent might rally his/her troops and turn the tide of the battle. It could be that she was too confident that magic can defeat everything but come on, she literally lived her entire life time playing games due to the nature of her world. You'd think that she'd at least prepare herself as much. Imagine if you're in Kurami's position and get to decide every rule and prepare all kinds of trickery you can use. Naturally the first thing one should do is eliminate the chance of her opponent winning as much as possible and then to prepare as many tactics and counters as possible. Kurami was so terribly unprepared that even the sight of Sora rallying his troops surprised her (it shouldn't, really). The biggest plot hole was that she was flabbergasted when Sora doesn't wait for her turn. It's something she should've known was possible before hand when she prepared the game as evidenced by her calm demeanor when her own piece broke the rules of chess (moving 3 spots instead of 2). She also should've known that it's possible to move several pieces at once yet she didn't take this advantage from the beginning. She could easily take Sora by surprise and won the game quickly. The 2nd biggest plot hole is her contradictory political views. Right before the game, she was talking about how the elves would protect Imanity and that she wouldn't be a puppet ruler. Basically she viewed herself as a fair ruler who wouldn't oppress Imanity and instead act as a peaceful mediator between the biggest & most powerful country (say, the US) and a small country incapable of defending themselves (say, the Philippines). Why then during the game, she turned into such a cold blooded ruler who reign with terror? it's not like she doesn't know politic, does she? All Kurami (and Feel) knew, was that the pieces will have their own will during the game. And that probably didn't wholly sink in with Kurami to begin with, considering, that she thought, that the pieces having a will only meant, that they can act in her favor a bit more often. Also, how would you prepare for war, when the only thing you know about it is that it has been banned for several thousand years? Go through the libraries in the 10 minutes, that you have before the match? Enough for nothing really... And games aren't played on a daily basis. Outside the games they play as children, the rest of the games are basically legal disputes in the court (in today's standards), which doesn't happen that often (Compared to how many people we have on earth, that is) And she couldn't just outright burst down [ ]'s chances of winning either. Remeber, they played on Kurami's suspicion, that they can detect magic, thus she couldn't just outright make the game a blatant "I win" device. Even though it was a bluff. And again, she knows very little about war, so she might have thought, that is was still chess, with pieces moving in he favor. And about her views... Actually, Sora already answered that to Steph... Which I'll try to quote. "Isn't it about time you start suspecting people?" Basically, Kurami was trying to appeal to [ ]'s concience by claiming, that all she want's is for Imanity to live, which, after getting rejected, was a facade she no longer needed againts [ ]. But then again, that might come as something you didn't expect from the show (you know, characters other than the MCs using certain tricks), and before you call this BS, it is confirmed in later chapters of the Novel. So no, it is far from BS. Though I do have to agree, that the assasination was stretching it... a lot. |
| That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. |
Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Not complaining, just a heated discussion of differing opinions on certain matters. I myself found it to be decent at the very least. |
| "A cruel world is not without it's beauty, and many times a select few find it by mistake. Only then do those select few see the world for what it is... A disastrous masterpiece." ~ 7thVoid "Hates a river that only flows down." ~ 7thVoid |
| Tet is such a cute god, lol. Now the goal became a lot more interesting! Conquer the world and to beat God, huh... |
Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Because they thought it was bad and not decent. For some people, it is hard to praise an anime where a hikikomori is able to effectively deliver a speech in front of thousands of people just because his sister hold his hand. Overhyped and overrated so far! |
| This show just gets better and better. I good balance of when to be serious, and when to be funny. Sora & Shiro together is Lelouch like. "Never underestimate humanity" |
jiraiya_sensei said: And she didn't think for one second that Sora might be bluffing? that his confidence is just a mind game (this is despite ardent believe that humans can't win against magic)? growing up in a world full of lies and trickery, the natural thing to do would be not to trust anyone. How does "seemingly confident winning the game" suddenly jumped to "some other countries backing them up"? Either way as I said above unless it's actually possible to give imanity magic, she really has no reason to be scared even if some other country did back Shiro & Sora. As it is right now even Kurami doesn't seem to understand her world very well. Why would she think that? [ ] clearly had dvices that humans don't have, and were blatantly showing them off right before exposing her initial cheat (with poker). And the world isn't full of lies and trickery. I'd say, few even dare to cheat due to fear of losing instantly. The only reason Kurami cheats 24/7 is because she has good backers (as in her cheats are undetectable to her opponents [actually, only undetectable to humans...]). And in my previous post, which you missed due to sleep [HOW DARE YOU SLEEP IN MY PRESENCE! (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻ ] I said, that games are not a daily thing. It's used to settle conflicts. If a verbal agreement is reached before it gets to games, then no games for them. And do you honestly think people bring up that many conflicts? And she understands her world very well ˇA genuine spoiler, don't touch, even with a foot-long pole, unless you are fine getting spoiled with info that happens in around episode 9-10. , but that doesn't mean, that she can deal with people outside of her world easily. Also, as to your continually eturning point, that Kurami knew, that the game is a war game; How would she know, that it's a war game, when she barely knows what war is. All she knows/knew about the game, is that it's a chess game, where pieces move in her favor quite often. And she didn't prepare it, Feel did... (give cedit where it's due!) EDIT: Swordnoob said: Bheaze said: seems legitbecame the new king and gonna become god. all for the purpose of trollin the shit outta every one Everyone seems to be taking this series so seriously O.O I just see it as a comedy and ignore the plot holes, thinking too hard about it takes away the sheer entertainment value it has. Despite having some experience (not decades of course, I only started three years ago or something, but still), thus far NGNL is proving to be one of the most enjoyable anime to come out in recent years. It doesn't have to make that much sense if it's this fun and makes me feel this fuzzy ^^ Buuuut, if I am to join this discussion, I won't have much to contribute since Takuan_Soho, jiraiya_sensei, 7thVoid and Caleb8980 have been making very good points. There is, however, one thing really bothering me: Imanity as a race can't use magic, right? Then where did those chess pieces come from? There is no way in hell they could have been created without the use of magic, thus their mere existence proves the meddling of another nation (unless they were imported, which seems rather unlikely - their destruction makes them seemingly usable only once, and Imanity didn't have such a flourishing economy according to what we've seen). Wouldn't the simple usage of the pieces be evidence of cheating? It's been bothering me ever since I started thinking about it -_- It's really the only plot hole I have a problem with thus far, or indeed even noticed. It probably has been explained somewhere already, but anyway. Actually, it's only really adressed in the novel, where Kurami "goes home, and BRINGS a chess table". Because she acts and looks like a noble, it is believable, that she could have some enchanted chess game from old times. (To which, BTW, Sora adds a nice comment.) |
GreenDragMay 1, 2014 4:28 PM
| Ah, another interesting and enjoyable episode! That win was so legit!! So God lost so he could bring them there, I wonder if he is trying to help the Imanity..? Was he one of them too? Did he become God by winning a game as well..? Ah! I cant wait for the next ep! Definitely one of my favs anime this season! <3 |
""You think you're special? You're not. Everyone lies, everyone hides things... Nobody makes it through this life being completely honest." - Izaya |
7thVoid said: Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Not complaining, just a heated discussion of differing opinions on certain matters. I myself found it to be decent at the very least. No my post wasn't aimed specifically towards you. SetsukoHara said: Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Because they thought it was bad and not decent. For some people, it is hard to praise an anime where a hikikomori is able to effectively deliver a speech in front of thousands of people just because his sister hold his hand. Overhyped and overrated so far! Are you sure we're watching the same anime? Because there's a huge fucking difference between a person who's "NEET" and "hikikomori". |
Swordnoob said: Then I should reread the novel, because I don't remember that part :/ And that makes for a huge anime-only plothole, because that implies that it was a portable, i.e. normal-sized chess game, with pieces apparently not destroying each other. If it was an old inherited piece, that means that 1) the war wasn't that long ago, 2) magic equipment is usable by humans, 3) It wasn't only war, since there was apparently trade between nations and 4) something really important that I forgot for the moment but might remember in a while. It certainly opens possibilities. 1 - The war was over a thousand years ago, as mentioned somewhere around the second volume (If memory serves me right, that is) 2 - It was stated in the first volume (don't know how they could have possibly left out this part, it they did), that devices run by magic can be used by humans. They simply do not have any magic power of their own. 3 - Well, either trade... or looting. Which is more likely, considering that the war was very heavy, going to the point, where everything pretty much died. But that's that I guess. The anime is missing the tiny bits of information and characterization, that the novel had. In the novel, if you pay proper attention, Steph actually is one of the best characters, whilst in the anime... yeah. But then again, can't lay that judgement down yet, as it is still going on. If those little crubms of background find their ways into the anime, it will make it one of the best this year. And a good addition to fantasy animes. |
| and sora can conquer the world and do politics by just playing a game lol maybe i should take games a little more serious right now :D ep.04 ovrall 5/5 |
Swordnoob said: ^A genuine spoiler, don't touch, even with a foot-long pole, unless you are fine getting spoiled with info that happens in around episode 9-10. , but that doesn't mean, that she can deal with people outside of her world easily. maybe put that in front of the spoiler ;( |
| Tet is one adorable little bugger : I just can't help loving how mischievous he is. Hopefully we get see more of him. Apart from him (sadly), none of the characters seem likable to me. Steph is mostly a piece of fanservice with no more potential for future development and whose role will probably be restricted to that of comic relief. As of now there's not much about Shiro's character besides her moe loli factor, and I guess I kind of appreciate Sora for his cockiness and ambition, but there's just something about him that irritates me that I can't quite put my finger on... Oh yeah, his attitude. He's pretty obnoxious. Anyway, good episode, even though I still don't get who killed the King even after reading the 14 freaking pages of discussion. |
SapewlothMay 3, 2014 6:12 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Z4k said: Are you sure we're watching the same anime? Because there's a huge fucking difference between a person who's "NEET" and "hikikomori". MAL synopsis said: The story of No Game, No Life centers around Sora and Shiro, a brother and sister whose reputations as brilliant NEET (Not in Education, Employment, or Training) hikikomori (shut-in) gamers have spawned urban legends all over the Internet. Wikipedia said: Siblings Sora and Shiro are a pair of hikikomori NEETs who together form 『 』 Please check the name of the anime you're watching before posting, because it seems you're in the wrong thread. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:34 AM
Nanashi- said: maybe put that in front of the spoiler ;( Damn... sorry... SetsukoHara said: Please check the name of the anime you're watching before posting, because it seems you're in the wrong thread. Shiro, Age: 11 Never goes to school Communication disorder (the one that showed up in ep2) Shut-in Game obsessed Sora, Age:18 Virgin Communication disorder (again, the one that shows up in ep2) NEET Game-obsessed I don't see Sora being called a hikkikomori... And that's taken from the anime's first episode, which in my opinion is more trushtworthy than a site, that can be edited by almost anyone. |
| This shit is awesome. Really enjoying this anime and I hope there's more of this type of stuff in the future. Sick of all these hero things all the time. |
Boombawks said: Anon1409 said: And why would that be? My post is fair, I mean people are talking about these sort of things all the time. Why is this so high on the list? Why is this so low on the list. But when it comes to NGNL, that stuff doesn't apply? Fair enough if the series has finished, but it's only 4 episodes and quite a few people already rating it 10.Boombawks said: It seems this is the most liked show this season, that makes it #108 material? Lol It's good but not that good, people are going overboard on this, heading to overhyped-waters. Stupidity is incurable, and by that, I mean you. To me anyway, it's good, but not as good as some people are hyping it to be. its not personal,we hate every stupid comment questioning people's personal taste.and its irrelevant if its just 4 episode or not.i gave it a 10 after first episode,then lowered to 9,then made it 10 again after last episode...this anime gets a lot of attention because majority likes it.the word "hype" is a crippled word.if a lot of people likes it,it is a success itself.if you dont like it just dont watch it anymore or try to understand others,i dont go write "why you guys dont like NGNL its awesome" edit:Really :I...you watched 320 anime and didnt even try bakemonogatari :I |
LoneWizzyMay 1, 2014 5:18 PM
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GreenDrag said: Nanashi- said: maybe put that in front of the spoiler ;( Damn... sorry... SetsukoHara said: Please check the name of the anime you're watching before posting, because it seems you're in the wrong thread. Shiro, Age: 11 Never goes to school Communication disorder (the one that showed up in ep2) Shut-in Game obsessed Sora, Age:18 Virgin Communication disorder (again, the one that shows up in ep2) NEET Game-obsessed I don't see Sora being called a hikkikomori... And that's taken from the anime's first episode, which in my opinion is more trushtworthy than a site, that can be edited by almost anyone. Shiro is a shut in, and look at their reactions when they are separated, It's obvious Sora is also a shut-in. |
Takuan_Soho said: Sapewloth said: Anyway, good episode, even though I still don't get who killed the King even after reading the 14 freaking pages of discussion. Sora did, the same way he converted the queen and then the knight. Basically he redefined the rules as he went along, and his narrative belief became reality. Remember the pieces did not have "will" on their own, but responded to the "will" of the players. Sora gave an inspiring speech, foot soldiers responded as they historically do; Queens have, since time immemorial, been swayed by flattery, Sora used that to convert the queen; knights have traditionally fought for their "lady", Sora used that to convert the knight; tyrants throughout history usually end up being killed by their own mercenaries (think Praetorian Guard or most of Chinese history), and the King ends up dying. I got the concept just fine, but my question was what specifically killed the King. Sora basically said that historically tyrants always ended up betrayed and killed by someone who's not even on the battlefield (a la Brutus and Julius Caesar), but there was no one besides the king who wasn't one of his soldiers , so I was kinda confused as I initially thought Sora's citing of historical facts about tyrants was a mere prediction of what would happen and that one of the King's pieces was actually gonna kill him. But if I got that right what you're telling me is that Sora's knowledge actually is the killer? I can understand that... But in that case isn't that weird that earth's historical facts are of any relevance in a totally different world (even though at first glance it does look like some sort of a Medieval Europe with a bit of fantasy and games that ressemble our own) ? |
SapewlothMay 1, 2014 5:44 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
SetsukoHara said: Shiro is a shut in, and look at their reactions when they are separated, It's obvious Sora is also a shut-in. Shiro completely broke, Sora was apologizing like no tomorrow. There IS a big difference between the two cases. Sora was still capable of proper interaction (though became quite humble), while Shiro was a real mess. Also, in the last decade (in-world, that is) the two of them were together, and for a good portion of that time, together alone. They became reliant on each other, heavily so. But the actual shut-in almost never talks to others, and even if she does, she keeps it to a brief few words. That stems from her past experiences with others. On the other hand, Sora, whose genius lies in deciphering and manipulating the motives of others merely has trouble talking to others when his other half is missing. |
Caleb8980 said: Only because Sora and Shiro are humans, that does not mean that they can't have somebody else using some kind of magic for cheating, which was btw the same way how Clammy cheated both times we saw her playing to now. As Clammy herself is part of Imanity she can't use magic herself but Feel (the elf) has used her magic for letting Clammy cheat. In the last episode Sora took out his phone and bluffed that he could detect magic with it, the problem there was that Clammy really cheated using magic and that Feel was discovered hence fueling her imagination...how could he possible have such a device? For Clammy the only way that could be happening was by assuming Sora was backed by another country. That's also what I spotted as her major mistake. Kurami was too fixated by the idea that Sora was using magic she completely ignored the other possibility that he was bluffing. The fact that Sora theorized that Kurami used magic to force her pieces to move yet didn't call her out on it (which would be instant victory) should make it clear to her that he can neither detect magic nor prove that she was cheating despite acting with his camera. Same thing with the brainwash magic. That only leaves one more possibility, that Sora had an accomplice (the suspected backup) who caught her cheating but this was already nullified since Sora & Shiro came only with Steph, which is why I find her paranoia baffling as she has no reason to. Caleb8980 said: Yeah but you already said the important part, if Sora's pieces didn't move that way it would be because of a lack of motivation. Now that would be a legal claim if he did nothing to stir up said motivation but he hold a speech that would motivate any soldier in a battlefield, especially in medieval times. No, no. I understand why Sora's troops would be rallied. My original complain was that it is something Kurami should have expected and prepared for, which she clearly wasn't. I may argue about how such powerful magic (that overrides fear of death) on Kurami's side was overridden by a sense of camaraderie (resulting in the red pieces) but it may be an endless argument. In real life throwing away a dictator isn't as easy (as proven by North Korea and Syria). I mean why do you think riot police all over the world would beat up their own people to protect corrupt government? half of the rebels in Syria are actually soldiers who defected and both they & their former comrades have no problem killing each other. Takuan_Soho said: If he was bluffing about winning, then she should have (and did) call him on it, and he without magic, would have lost. You are missing out on the mindset of all the humans in this world, they are absolutely convinced that magic WILL ALWAYS WIN because it has always won in the past. Why would Kurumi worry that he was bluffing about winning without magic, because with her mindset that would mean she had already won, the only thing she had to worry about, given her mind view, would be if he had some sort of magic and that was what she was fixated. You misunderstood my statement. I was talking about how Kurami's paranoia before the game was almost unwarranted. Caleb8980 made a good point as to why she'd be suspicious before the game so see my answer above. swordnoob said: Also, as to your continually eturning point, that Kurami knew, that the game is a war game; How would she know, that it's a war game, when she barely knows what war is. All she knows/knew about the game, is that it's a chess game, where pieces move in her favor quite often. And she didn't prepare it, Feel did... (give cedit where it's due!) This is also quite a funny point actually but before that Kurami & Feel were shown talking together before the game so why wouldn't Feel make a game and not tell Kurami what it is? If they are working together naturally they'd be conspiring to assure certain victory. Now this is a part of the 10 pledges. 3. In games, each player will bet something that they agree is of equal value. 4. As long as it doesn't go against Pledge 3, what they bet and the rules of the game will not be questioned. 5. The challenged party has the right to decide the rules of the game Nowhere did it say on these points or the subsequent pledges that you can't make a one-sided rule. This is quite an unfair advantage on the challenged party. If you challenge me to a game and said I can decide the type of game and the rules, I certainly won't pick something I'm clearly at disadvantage at. I would for example, choose to play Pro Evolution Soccer and set the rules so that I can make 7 substitutions while my opponent can make none and that my opponent can't use player with ↑ condition. I wouldn't pick games that I'm bad at like Rock Band even if you promised me I can use unlimited Overdrive because I know it won't help since I suck at rhythm games and would miss the notes anyway. In Kurami's case there are so many possibilities that she can make it so that she has unfair advantages set as "rules" not to mention she can choose another kind of game that suit her strength. Now I may be mistaken here since I don't read the novels but this is the impression that I got from the anime. |
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kramXD said: couldn't careless about the chess cause i'm the best at it anyway this ep was epic, the other races looks interesting + that elf with kurami was big really big and they want to beat a god WTF ~~ they already beat him once in a not so difficult chess game with him I hope they play some other interesting game..other than just chess to beat the god. Knowing this anime it will probably be something amazing. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:30 AM
Takuan_Soho said: snip Much thanks. Seems way clearer now. I guess I kinda needed that explanation, cause I really didn't get the whole 'embodiment of the will of the player' from what the anime gave me... :/ |
SapewlothMay 1, 2014 8:00 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
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