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babykeiji said: Yeah, the art is OVERWHELMINGLY done! It looks like each episode is a MOVIE in a DVD quality. One of my problems with this show. I cant see the point in the direction. At all. Colour is fine, but throwing every film technique and the kitchen sink at the screen is ridiculous. Mayonaise always gets a bad rap in anime-land. :( |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Cihan said: babykeiji said: Yeah, the art is OVERWHELMINGLY done! It looks like each episode is a MOVIE in a DVD quality. One of my problems with this show. I cant see the point in the direction. At all. Colour is fine, but throwing every film technique and the kitchen sink at the screen is ridiculous. Mayonaise always gets a bad rap in anime-land. :( Turns out that Oonuma might have expected people to understand what he was doing with the style: monochrome, portaits, other random nuances. Of course, a lot of this was experimentation, too. Judging from your list, you're someone I would have expected to get it, but I guess not. |
qtipbrit92 said: Cihan said: One of my problems with this show. I cant see the point in the direction. At all. Colour is fine, but throwing every film technique and the kitchen sink at the screen is ridiculous. Mayonaise always gets a bad rap in anime-land. :( Turns out that Oonuma might have expected people to understand what he was doing with the style: monochrome, portaits, other random nuances. Of course, a lot of this was experimentation, too. Judging from your list, you're someone I would have expected to get it, but I guess not. Maybe because there isn't actually anything to get. Throwing a bunch of empty images at the viewer doesn't make your show deep or meaningful. Some people might appreciate some of the still shots, but others will simply get annoyed by the constant bombardment of changing camera angles and pointless imagery. |
Astaroth said: qtipbrit92 said: Cihan said: One of my problems with this show. I cant see the point in the direction. At all. Colour is fine, but throwing every film technique and the kitchen sink at the screen is ridiculous. Mayonaise always gets a bad rap in anime-land. :( Turns out that Oonuma might have expected people to understand what he was doing with the style: monochrome, portaits, other random nuances. Of course, a lot of this was experimentation, too. Judging from your list, you're someone I would have expected to get it, but I guess not. Maybe because there isn't actually anything to get. Throwing a bunch of empty images at the viewer doesn't make your show deep or meaningful. Some people might appreciate some of the still shots, but others will simply get annoyed by the constant bombardment of changing camera angles and pointless imagery. Which is obviously why it's easier to find an analysis of ef and its imagery than it is to find one of Lain and its themes. |
| Sorry qtipbrit92, you havent justified the director's ADD-inspired direction to us. There is no thematic reason, as far as I can see, for why Ef is directed the way it is, absolutely no reason at all for using every film technique known to man. Building the director of this show up as some type of avant garde auteur is ludicrous. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
Cihan said: Sorry qtipbrit92, you havent justified the director's ADD-inspired direction to us. Not so much ADD as crack, actually. Cihan said: There is no thematic reason, as far as I can see, for why Ef is directed the way it is, absolutely no reason at all for using every film technique known to man. Every film technique known to man? Have you seen enough films to be stating that? At the very most, it's at the level of Shinbo's Pani Poni Dash in crack-ness. Cihan said: Building the director of this show up as some type of avant garde auteur is ludicrous. ... but he is. Oonuma worked under Shinbo for some time, and I see you also enjoyed Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei? Now Shinbo really is an auteur; you've seen some of Shinbo's work, so you know he takes a few... liberties with his direction in animation. Oonuma just happens to do the same. And as I said before, ef's animation direction was almost an experiment by Oonuma; of course you'll see unusual techniques and concepts. I't's not something everyone will like at first, but as you can see, it's changed the minds of many. |
| ef's direction quality level reminds me of a SHAFT-addicted otaku beginning film student with no appreciable talent given a budget and told to adapt a gal-game. I love SHAFT. Shinbou is one of my favorite directors. This is no Shinbou. This is knockoff garbage. |
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| Of course qtipbrit92 has yet to explain to me why Ef's story is directed the way it is because even he has no freakin' idea, it just looks pretty. WTF is it with people on MAL pointing at other animes in someone's filmography and not focusing on the narrative at hand? Here's the problem. One particular technique used in abundance, fine. Consistency. A few techniques used in abundance, fine. Variety. Every technique known to man used in abundance = meaningless. I mean quite literally, the director has robbed his own story of meaning through meaningless direction. It's like painting the Mona Lisa with 5 different painting styles, its a complete fucking mess that has no purpose behind it other than to bewilder the observer. Unless you can provide a miracle in the form of explaining to us the purpose of each technique used in each scene as it appears in this 'epic romance'. Dont worry about it, even the director cant do that. Apparently it's his 'thing', his shtick, and because he's used to doing it wherever he goes, we should just bend over and accept it, even though it makes no sense in this story. You ask us to analyse Ef. After I've calmed down and stopped laughing, how are we supposed to analyse something that is so shizophrenic and inconsistent that it's ultimately incoherent? Narrative-wise it may make sense, but the way its presented makes no sense. There is no 'method in the madness' here, it's literally what you see is what you get, and what we get is every possible film technique you could possibly have, all thrown at the screen, and yes I say that fastidiously. (maybe slo-mo and 3D affects didnt make it through, I didnt suffer this anime all the way to the end, so who knows) Using Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei is the final nail in the coffin here, as that anime might be the epitome of schizophrenic direction, although that very fact is it's purpose. In that the anime is not trying to be meaningful; its a parody, its a mix of genres and styles of what it's parodying. The mixed direction reflects the mixed story, and its used to humurous effect successfully. So finally here is direction with a purpose. Do you see? |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
kasumisama said: This is no Shinbou. Clearly; so many claim that Oonuma surpasses his teacher for a reason. Cihan said: Of course qtipbrit92 has yet to explain to me why Ef's story is directed the way it is because even he has no freakin' idea, it just looks pretty. Let's see, was it twice or thrice that I've told you? Ah, yes. As Oonuma's first work, he'll obviously experiment like Shinbo did with say, Pani Poni Dash. Cihan said: WTF is it with people on MAL pointing at other animes in someone's filmography and not focusing on the narrative at hand? Ohh, traumatic past experiences? Fortunately, I've been on these forums roughly three days, so I'm obviously the same as everyone here, aren't I? Well, since I should practise more to be able to fit in, why not take a look at Texhnolyze? Why was the first episode directed so? There are several possible answers: -He wanted to root out viewers that he knew wouldn't be able to follow the series by turning them off with a unique first episode. -He had a bad trip and decided: hey, let's just start working on that Technolyze, eh? Damn, I missed the "c" key.. eh, "x" works too. -April Fool's joke. Cihan said: Every technique known to man... Sorry, but it's already getting old. You're sounding like a first grader trying to prove to his teacher that his cookie did, in fact, bite his classmate (who really does] have cooties, I'm honest!) Either gain a sense of maturity or the credibility to seriously maintain your statements, since it's hard to concentrate on the topic at hand when I'm laughing at you so often. Cihan said: It's like painting the Mona Lisa with 5 different painting styles, its a complete fucking mess that has no purpose behind it other than to bewilder the observer. Unless you can provide a miracle in the form of explaining to us the purpose of each technique used in each scene as it appears in this 'epic romance'. Ha, postmodern art style is quite a trip, especially when mixed with both older crack techniques and newer crack techniques, is it not? It's apparently an acquired taste, but for some reason, the thousands of ef fans who have no experience in art don't complain, wait... now why is that? Cihan said: You ask us to analyse Ef. After I've calmed down and stopped laughing, how are we supposed to analyse something that is so shizophrenic and inconsistent that it's ultimately incoherent? The same could would be said about Lain. Lain was far more inconsistent in its presentation and in its non-linear storytelling, but we're able to appreciate it. That ef happens to be incoherent is moreso a fault on your part, apparently, since so many have made sense of Oonuma's work. Cihan said: Narrative-wise it may make sense, but the way its presented makes no sense. There is no 'method in the madness' here, it's literally what you see is what you get, and what we get is every possible film technique you could possibly have, all thrown at the screen, and yes I say that fastidiously. (maybe slo-mo and 3D affects didnt make it through, I didnt suffer this anime all the way to the end, so who knows) Now is "whay you get" referring to you specifically, or is it to people who can actually, er, "get" it, as you put it? I don't feel like repeating my comment again, so look up just a smidgeon and read that for me, k? Cihan said: Using Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei is the final nail in the coffin here, as that anime might be the epitome of schizophrenic direction Oh goodness, please watch more anime. Cihan said: although that very fact is it's purpose. In that the anime is not trying to be meaningful; its a parody, its a mix of genres and styles of what it's parodying. The mixed direction reflects the mixed story, and its used to humurous effect successfully. So finally here is direction with a purpose. Do you see? Wow, I must say, this is news! This satire of the Japanese society's flaws, shortcomings, and purported flaws and shortcomings is no longer a work of mixed art (or a mix of worked art, if you will; hell, the art of mixed work sounds good, too.); it's just a crackfest done well now, amirite? It's no longer a parody in and of itself, it just makes crap look funny! Your praise of Shinbo came off a tad wrongly; I'm sorry, maybe you could, uh, adjust it a bit if you're going to laud over Shinbo. I've seen it done well, and as Shinbo is, in my opinion, a fine example of a director, I'd rather not have you tarnish his name. EDIT: I'm sure that under different circumstances we could have been able to get along, but pardon me, for I am quite the fanboy and don't quite think rationally when it comes to ef. |
qtipJul 10, 2008 3:44 PM
qtipbrit92 said: Let's see, was it twice or thrice that I've told you? Ah, yes. As Oonuma's first work, he'll obviously experiment like Shinbo did with say, Pani Poni Dash. Make that 'never told me'. You have yet to explain to the world why Ef is directed in the style it is. Claiming the director is 'experimenting' is not an explanation. It sounds like a fanboy out of his depth. What exactly is the director experimenting with? The viewer's patience? He hasnt experimented with anything. Experimentation would involve trying something new and there is nothing new with Ef. It's a tragic romance that's directed like it's a montage of the history of every film technique of the moving image, like a montage of music video aesthetics. The array of techniques used isnt even a problem of itself, its just there's no valid reason for so many in this story. One moment people are walking down a sidewalk, the next they're inverted and clouds are inside them. Reason? No reason at all. None. If you're going to use a technique like that, you'd better have a damn good reason because it's very striking and we dont see it often in a fiction narrative. Is the character dreaming? In an alternate dimension? Does he have an obsession with clouds throughout the entire story? No. It just fucking looks cool. That's it. On to the next pointless technique. Over and over until I'm sick to death of my eyeballs being molested like this when I'm trying to concentrate on the story. The director has invaded the screenwriter's territory and taken a big dump on it. Sorry, but it's already getting old. You're sounding like a first grader trying to prove to his teacher that his cookie did, in fact, bite his classmate (who really does] have cooties, I'm honest!) Either gain a sense of maturity or the credibility to seriously maintain your statements, since it's hard to concentrate on the topic at hand when I'm laughing at you so often. It's getting old because you havent answered my questions which results in me repeating myself. The director uses so many different directorial techniques, that me saying he uses 'them all' is a humurous criticism of the amount he inflicts on us. It's funny you're telling me to be credible with my statements! All you're doing is making one vague dismissal after another, it's practically a one-sided debate right now. The same could would be said about Lain. Lain was far more inconsistent in its presentation and in its non-linear storytelling, but we're able to appreciate it. That ef happens to be incoherent is moreso a fault on your part, apparently, since so many have made sense of Oonuma's work. Lain was not inconsistent in its presentation, it was directed in a specific way with a purpose, (like the constant 'text on a screen' motif throughout the series = represents computery imagery = represents cyberpunk tale = omg did the director just do his job properly!?) and its storytelling is irrevelent to this debate, we're talking about the direction of Ef. I've already said Ef's story is coherent, but it's direction is not. Oh goodness, please watch more anime. The problem is I've watched too much. EDIT: I'm sure that under different circumstances we could have been able to get along, but pardon me, for I am quite the fanboy and don't quite think rationally when it comes to ef. I cant take anyone who has Ef as their #1 favourite anime, seriously. I dont have a big problem with Ef's story, I feel they messed it up with too many cliches and fanboy-pleasing characters, but it is what it is and some people will dig it. Fine. Whenever someone can justify why its directed with a vast array of techniques that dont relate coherently to the themes, subtext (lol), or plot, then give me a shout. Until then, dont bother shouting at all. |
"I'm starting to think mal is run by Xinil generating electricity on a bicycle." - idklol |
| Good episode, I'm hoping Chihiro will find somehting to give her happiness. I'm also liking Miyako more and more, and Kei less and less. It's like the second straight episode where Kei has been devesated by Hiro hanging out with Miyako, grow up. |
| Is it really that easy for the three of them to become really close friends when they were little... |
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| Interesting. One of the stories is about a love triangle while the other is about a really depressing relationship. |
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| Was I the only one who immediately thought of Clannad when she revealed what she wanted to write about? |
| wow 5/5 i like that they're lovers now..maybe ;o |
| Miyako is annoying. -_-" |
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Orkel said: Was I the only one who immediately thought of Clannad when she revealed what she wanted to write about? no, I thought about it too. I like the scene with cooking, and phoning to friend. Quite funny, i think. but scene, which I was really overjoyed was this with sea background </3 Chihiro is so awesome, her utterance make such reflections. |
| Well, all I can say is that the promise is still here. I'm absolutely loving the camera angles and the method being used to tell the story. It's dynamic in every aspect and is really bringing things to life. It's awesome. Can't wait to see what's next. Especially considering there's so much room for character development; everyone is in such a state that allows it. Best decision I've made I think, to start this Anime. Hopefully I don't have a changed state of mind. |
  Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango, daikazoku~ |
| Ouch for Kei walking in on something like that feel sorry for her but Hiro does make a good pair with Miwako too ><, and wow there is progression between Renji and Chihiro! |
| ef is a strange experience.. Although it's getting better I still watch the show with mild interest. Yet, at the end of each episode when "Do you have memories you don't want to forget?" appear I feel I could cry a river.. |
 this?  |
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lol, Kei sure has interesting hobbies. |
| While I do like Renji and Chihiro, I think Miyako and Hirono are probably one of the more natural couples i've seen since Clannad. This show is fantastic so far. |
Ston3_FreeN7Aug 9, 2009 10:59 PM
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Im Loving This Anime So Far And The Animation It Beautiful |
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| What i'm kinda curious about that no ones mentioned is who that churchy girl is, and what role she has in the show. She disappears as soon as the guys blink lol, then they wonder if they actually saw her or not. Shes appeared before all the dudes in the story so far now. Camera dude, manga dude, and book dude. |
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| thats a cool show I love the Chihiro x Renji parts Orkel said: that also came into my mind XDWas I the only one who immediately thought of Clannad when she revealed what she wanted to write about? |
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Fabienne said: thats a cool show I love the Chihiro x Renji parts Orkel said: that also came into my mind XDWas I the only one who immediately thought of Clannad when she revealed what she wanted to write about? Alsom came to mine.. :) |
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| Interesting episode. It clear now that Kei likes the guy, that tension between that love triangle should be interesting. |
| when Chihiro said "I was alone last night when I was sleeping" I was like ^____^ I love these types of animes, romantic ones at that. And Kei needs to learn how to cook better. Surprised the tactic of putting mayo on a flaming stove works. All this time I thought Kei was Hiro's sibling or something, knowing to the fact that she calls him "onii-san". But as always, I'm horribly ignorant when it comes to the Japanese dialect. Great episode. Watching every episode a night after each other because this Anime is too good to be watched in one setting. |
XydenicWings said: this? Exactly what I was thinking. My thought on this anime so far is..how can I say it. It's so weird 0.o seriously those random blank shots or w.e they are annoys the hell out of me >_>...The kid that just met that one eye girl (for like a week) in this eps tells me he just wants the sex or he's just way to desperate (too soon?). This anime so far is boring me :/ but it was the same for Clannad when I first watched that and hopefully it should get better towards the end. |
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| it's very entertaining and the sound is very good ^^ too bad i don't really like the characters 4/5 |
Sayonara,papa! "Just how a mirror reflects you,people will also reflect your heart." ~Athena Glory,Aria "Whatever happens,happens" ~Spike Spiegel's thoughts on dying(Cowboy Bebop) |
| The opening theme somehow reminds me of Nightwish. :) |
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| I'm still not seeing much narrative direction. Some context in this episode but other than Kei getting all hissy (again) over Hirono and Miyaki, not alot happened. Asou and Chihiro insinuated that they 'loved' each other, but that was a bit predictable. Still hopeful the pacing will speed up a bit though. |
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| Why is his sister so mad? Unless shes a brocon she shouldn't be so jealous. "Can we become lovers? You're mean today so no." Thats so weiiird!! |
| Wow. I don't know why, but I absolutely love this anime. Everything about it. It's the first anime I've ever thought of after four episodes, that it might become my favorite anime of all I've watched. After every episode, I feel somewhat empty inside. Can't wait to see what kind of direction this will go in, but I will definitely not rush my way through this one. |
Nyr said: Wow. I don't know why, but I absolutely love this anime. Everything about it. It's the first anime I've ever thought of after four episodes, that it might become my favorite anime of all I've watched. After every episode, I feel somewhat empty inside. Can't wait to see what kind of direction this will go in, but I will definitely not rush my way through this one. I can assent a lot to this, except the rushing part. I love this stuff, so why would I stop watching it? ^_^ Reminds me of Clannad, somewhat. The music and art are amazing, as is the story. And yes, I'm a Kei fan. Though I probably would still fall for Miyako in real life. |
| Shit's getting depressing fast... But there's a nice feeling to it. I wonder how Chihiro's relationship will develop. |
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Beric said: Nyr said: Wow. I don't know why, but I absolutely love this anime. Everything about it. It's the first anime I've ever thought of after four episodes, that it might become my favorite anime of all I've watched. After every episode, I feel somewhat empty inside. Can't wait to see what kind of direction this will go in, but I will definitely not rush my way through this one. I can assent a lot to this, except the rushing part. I love this stuff, so why would I stop watching it? ^_^ Reminds me of Clannad, somewhat. The music and art are amazing, as is the story. And yes, I'm a Kei fan. Though I probably would still fall for Miyako in real life. The Clannad vibe is definitely there, and when Chihiro said she wanted to write a story about a girl leaving alone in a destroyed world, Clannad's other world came to mind right away! |
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| It was a sweet episode~ Renji was a day late in confessing to Chihiro but it looks like the two of them are progressing well for now. On to the next episode =) |
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| Do these people have split personalities or something or can they time travel? |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Veethorn said: Beric said: Nyr said: Wow. I don't know why, but I absolutely love this anime. Everything about it. It's the first anime I've ever thought of after four episodes, that it might become my favorite anime of all I've watched. After every episode, I feel somewhat empty inside. Can't wait to see what kind of direction this will go in, but I will definitely not rush my way through this one. I can assent a lot to this, except the rushing part. I love this stuff, so why would I stop watching it? ^_^ Reminds me of Clannad, somewhat. The music and art are amazing, as is the story. And yes, I'm a Kei fan. Though I probably would still fall for Miyako in real life. The Clannad vibe is definitely there, and when Chihiro said she wanted to write a story about a girl leaving alone in a destroyed world, Clannad's other world came to mind right away! It's really good to know that I'm not the only one who thought of Clannad when Chihiro mentioned her idea for a story! I personally just finished watching Clannad and just started watching Ef because both were suggested to me since I like AIR. *rambles* All the animes have a great vib to them and have a lot in common. Great music, great art, and an amazing story. I absolutely love it! |
| Woah..... So she basically wants to write about The Illusionary World from Clannad?? O.o |
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| Another nice ep, that last scene was great, and I'm glad Hirono has a new fan of his manga, I think they could make a great couple. Also, I didn't know mayo could be used to put out a fire? Learned something new xD |
| El Psy Congroo まだまだだね!!! |
| Great episode was quite a nice episode though the ending was quite sad for the twins each with their own male character involvement. Either way nice episode! Up to the next one! |
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| Well, at least the story's picking up. The cinematography and art are still really nice, though. |
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| After only 4 eps, this one really looks interesting. If only I could stop myself from finishing the series too fast :)) |
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