CNagy said: Even taking Kirino out of the picture entirely, the fact that Manami dragged Kyousuke down from being awesome to being a lazy ass who squanders his potential is a damning offense. How did Manami cause that? That's a natural thing little kids who think they rule the world go through as they grow up he just reacted to it rather negatively. You realize you cannot impact everything and some thing will always be out of your control. Manami didn't cause anything IMO she was just with him during this time and saw this. He is a normal person not the image that Kirino made for herself and fell in love with. As someone with a little sister also I feel really creeped out reading a lot of peoples comments. I can only surmise you don't actually have a little sister yourself and are living in a fantasy realm. |
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ReasonDesu said: He is a normal person not the image that Kirino made for herself and fell in love with. This is how the rich explain the markets that the rich play and manipulate, later claiming that it is market forces that drive their profits. Exaccus said: I didn't interpret Manami's words as being said out of spite. Because she doesn't come across as a remotely spiteful person. It seems to me that Manami simply correctly perceived the situation and chose to bluntly tell Kirino what was actually the case. Why is she being hated on for doing just that? -Kirino snip- That said, Manami didn't do anything wrong here, she was merely telling Kirino the way things really are, you know, outside of Kirino's big brother complex fantasies. Again, fucking pathetic. For a Manami thread there's sure lot of Kirino in it. A 'correct perception' of cases doesn't exist. It's better to justify and find justification for certain cases. Else I can claim anything and supposedly it will be true. |
 「みんながいるからだ。」 － 棗鈴 |
nohbody1968 said: I'm with CNagy on this one. With one exception: Without having read (or seen) the ending, I personally don't quite get how a Kiriono x Kyousuke ending implies incest -- that is, sex between close relatives (e.g. siblings). That is to say, in the grand scheme of things, the siblings could decide that their asexual relationship trumps other potential sexual relationships. [Personal bias alert: I find the concept of asexuality and asexual romance and relationships interesting, especially in the context of a society that seems to assume that all romance must eventually lead to the bedroom.] The summary I read didn't make actual incest explicit, so the jury is still out on that as far as I know. I'm operating under the assumption of incest mostly based on the nature of their interactions. Young Kyousuke didn't display any sexual interest in Kirino that I could see, but this whole series has been chock full of Kirino exposing Kyousuke to massive amounts of little sister eroge. The attraction between the two of them has sexual elements, so in my mind their relationship would be a sexual one--but the question is whether or not they actually engage in sexual intercourse and I imagine the series will either answer that question with a no or leave it intentionally vague. |
ReasonDesu said: CNagy said: Even taking Kirino out of the picture entirely, the fact that Manami dragged Kyousuke down from being awesome to being a lazy ass who squanders his potential is a damning offense. How did Manami cause that? That's a natural thing little kids who think they rule the world go through as they grow up he just reacted to it rather negatively. You realize you cannot impact everything and some thing will always be out of your control. Manami didn't cause anything IMO she was just with him during this time and saw this. He is a normal person not the image that Kirino made for herself and fell in love with. As someone with a little sister also I feel really creeped out reading a lot of peoples comments. I can only surmise you don't actually have a little sister yourself and are living in a fantasy realm. Your argument falls apart when you claim Kyousuke is a normal person. The episode clearly contradicts that. Normal kids do not "always get first." Normal kids are not "at the top of the class." Kyousuke was exceptional. Now, to be fair, I am digging into LN knowledge when I say that Manami actually did cause it, but Kirino brought it up in the episode and Manami's response (like your own) directly contradicts what we were shown (her idea of Kyousuke never being exceptional was a flat out lie.) That said, nice way to go for the cheap shot against me, but you'd be wrong. I grew up with a younger brother who idolized me and two younger female cousins who idolized me. I know what it looks like and I know that it is harmless. You are free to be creeped out by what other people are saying, but if you are creeped out by younger Kirino's adoration of her brother then you have the same fucked up perspective as Manami--because that was completely innocent. |
nohbody1968 said: CNagy said: Even taking Kirino out of the picture entirely, the fact that Manami dragged Kyousuke down from being awesome to being a lazy ass who squanders his potential is a damning offense. And they say the only people who like the idea of little sister incest are people who obviously never had a little sister--well, I'm sensing the same thing in regards to Manami. You had to grow up without a younger sibling who idolized you in order to agree with her frankly fucked up conclusion that there was something wrong with Kirino's entirely innocent phase of brother worship. She didn't "tell it like it was," she was gloating on her victory. She didn't have to say a word to Kirino to get what she wanted, because Kyousuke was already lowering himself to average. The irony of it is that saying what she did actually set up the whole incest thing. I'm with CNagy on this one. With one exception: Without having read (or seen) the ending, I personally don't quite get how a Kiriono x Kyousuke ending implies incest -- that is, sex between close relatives (e.g. siblings). That is to say, in the grand scheme of things, the siblings could decide that their asexual relationship trumps other potential sexual relationships. [Personal bias alert: I find the concept of asexuality and asexual romance and relationships interesting, especially in the context of a society that seems to assume that all romance must eventually lead to the bedroom.] Exactly what I've been thinking. People either have no idea about the real meaning of incest, or just assume that they would obviously have sex, without any concrete proof. |
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Spieluhr said: Btw. Kyousuke started the ignoring, when he started growing up and thinking he was too cool to play with her. He left the poor little girl crying alone in the rain on the streets ffs. No, what Kyousuke did was normal when boys grow up they stop hanging out with their sisters because they enter their ''cool'' phase or w/e, the point is that he didn't completely ignore her, he just stopped playing and giving attention to her like he used to. It's not even close to the way Kirino ignored him after she became tsun tsun. CNagy said: The summary I read didn't make actual incest explicit, so the jury is still out on that as far as I know. I'm operating under the assumption of incest mostly based on the nature of their interactions. Young Kyousuke didn't display any sexual interest in Kirino that I could see, but this whole series has been chock full of Kirino exposing Kyousuke to massive amounts of little sister eroge. The attraction between the two of them has sexual elements, so in my mind their relationship would be a sexual one--but the question is whether or not they actually engage in sexual intercourse and I imagine the series will either answer that question with a no or leave it intentionally vague. Actual incest didn't happen in the novel because the editors didn't allow the author to publish it. He mentioned it in an interview. Dragon_Slayer_X said: Manami hate is unwanted? Sorry i think she deserves all of it and honestly i think the people still supporting her are just blind. Just being a Kirino fan is not the only, reason......most of you either don't want to admit it or avoiding the subject. I don't get it, why do you always try to bring fanboysim into this? no one aside from one comment said that Manami hate is coming from Kirino fans. Supporting her? I don't ''support'' and ship fictional characters with each others. tsudecimo said: don't misunderstand me here I said I like Manami and she is my favorite character of the show a show that I gave a 5, so it's not like I fucking love her and I want everyone to feel the same way. I made this topic for discussion nothing more. Mod edit: merged double post, removed unnecessary part |
koleareJul 2, 2013 9:22 AM
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Dragon_Slayer_X said: ReasonDesu said: How did Manami cause that? That's a natural thing little kids who think they rule the world go through as they grow up he just reacted to it rather negatively. You realize you cannot impact everything and some thing will always be out of your control. Manami didn't cause anything IMO she was just with him during this time and saw this. He is a normal person not the image that Kirino made for herself and fell in love with. As someone with a little sister also I feel really creeped out reading a lot of peoples comments. I can only surmise you don't actually have a little sister yourself and are living in a fantasy realm. Are you really this blind or just trying to deny the facts? I am confused. In Snk threads, at least you try to give some reasons despite being faulty but here you are just acting like another butt hurt hater. Even with a little brother, i really get goosebumps reading shitty comments like yours. You people make it look like every close siblings relationship is like incest. If you would bother to read the thread before starting a scathing attack on me you would see why I am creeped out. When anyone tries to justify incest as an older brother it really doesn't sit well with me. That aside other than fervent fanboys who have read all the LN nothing shows Manami was responsible for anything yet and in my opinion she was just stating a fact to a truly deluded girl, but once again that's just my opinion. I don't see any need to justify it to you. |
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Takuan_Soho said: Ah, but you see you are contradicting yourself here. You are correct, Kyousuke acted normal, hence there was nothing between him and Kirino for Manami to latch onto as "creepy" (BTW that one was at the 15 minute mark). You seem to misunderstand my point, I'm not saying that young Kirino's admiration and love of her brother is not normal or is completely creepy, I'm saying that from Manami's point of view it seems like that and she was blunt to Kirino about it. She has a brother from what I remember so she must have thought something was weird since the Kousaka siblings looked more close and intimate. Given what happened immediately before Kirino ran to Manami (she asking a normal question as to why he quit track and his refusing to answer combined with his sheer apathy towards nearly everything, including delegating his studying out to Manami), Kirino had perfectly normal reasons for being frustrated with Kyousuke, Manami was the one who converted it into something perverted in order to mentally twist an 11 year old. Kirino does have the right to be disappointed or frustrated but at the same time she doesn't have the right to say that her brother doesn't exist anymore, to just completely start acting cold and hostile towards him because he lost all his cool points. Don't forgot even though Kyousuke became lazy and somewhat apathetic he still cared for Kirino, that should be enough for Kirino if she actually liked her brother not some imaginary idol she worshiped. And I wouldn't call Kirino "tsun tsun". She had a reason for not wanting to associate with this "new" Kyousuke (his apathy was pretty disgusting). She said it up front to him after her confrontation with Manami, he knew she was speaking the truth (which is why he didn't try to respond either there or later), and throughout the animation it was pretty clear that most of her actions were designed to provoke him out of his apathy. Tsun means cold and hostile as I'm sure you know and she acted like that hence why I called her that, her having reasons to act like that is irrelevant. She basically took the extra frustration she experienced from Manami and took it out on Kyousuke. Like I said I hate Kyousuke's guts and I dislike him more than Kirino or any other character in the show but he is still doesn't deserve that. While we are it Kirino manged to make Kyousuke care more but she didn't stop her tsun, Why?, pride?, embarrassment ? or did she adopt that personality/got used to treating him like that and couldn't be more honest with herself?. The show is full of unrealistic characters but the most unrealistic ones has to be Kyousuke and Kirino which is bad because they are the main characters and the focus of the show. |
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| I wouldn't say it's justified but she was there for him and supported him and that's matters more imo. I already admitted that she was selfish. |
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ReasonDesu said: Dragon_Slayer_X said: ReasonDesu said: How did Manami cause that? That's a natural thing little kids who think they rule the world go through as they grow up he just reacted to it rather negatively. You realize you cannot impact everything and some thing will always be out of your control. Manami didn't cause anything IMO she was just with him during this time and saw this. He is a normal person not the image that Kirino made for herself and fell in love with. As someone with a little sister also I feel really creeped out reading a lot of peoples comments. I can only surmise you don't actually have a little sister yourself and are living in a fantasy realm. Are you really this blind or just trying to deny the facts? I am confused. In Snk threads, at least you try to give some reasons despite being faulty but here you are just acting like another butt hurt hater. Even with a little brother, i really get goosebumps reading shitty comments like yours. You people make it look like every close siblings relationship is like incest. If you would bother to read the thread before starting a scathing attack on me you would see why I am creeped out. When anyone tries to justify incest as an older brother it really doesn't sit well with me. That aside other than fervent fanboys who have read all the LN nothing shows Manami was responsible for anything yet and in my opinion she was just stating a fact to a truly deluded girl, but once again that's just my opinion. I don't see any need to justify it to you. Nobody here tried to justify incest. I just said that there is nothing wrong with loving your sister/brother (which is obviously the case) and that what Manami said was wrong. And even if she would be correct, saying something like this to such a child is just cruel. Someone here brought this example with just going around and telling little children that Santa Claus doesn't exist for the sake of destroying childrens dreams. That's why I hate her. I still can't really see what is so terribly creepy about incest, but I don't want to start an argument about that here. By the way, like Dragon_Slayer I also have a younger brother. |
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Romedbaumann said: I still can't really see what is so terribly creepy about incest, but I don't want to start an argument about that here. By the way, like Dragon_Slayer I also have a younger brother. So you would say there is nothing questionable or creepy about me having sex with my younger sister? She's of legal age too unlike the fictional scenario this relates to. Would you fall in love and sleep with your younger brother or is that an acceptable scenario to you? Obviously it's all dependent on morals, which are subjective, but I'm curious. |
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ReasonDesu said: Romedbaumann said: I still can't really see what is so terribly creepy about incest, but I don't want to start an argument about that here. By the way, like Dragon_Slayer I also have a younger brother. So you would say there is nothing questionable or creepy about me having sex with my younger sister? She's of legal age too unlike the fictional scenario this relates to. Would you fall in love and sleep with your younger brother or is that an acceptable scenario to you? Obviously it's all dependent on morals, which are subjective, but I'm curious. I wouldn't sleep with my brother since I'm male, which is why I can't answer this question properly. About you having sex with your younger sister, I definitely wouldn't say it is creepy since I don't think there is much difference between sleeping with a sister if you love her and sleeping with your wife. Questionable? Maybe, depending on what you would like to achieve by doing it. I'm still waiting for someone to actually tell me what supposedly is so creepy about incest, since the term per se doesn't involve getting/wanting children. |
RomedbaumannJul 2, 2013 10:40 AM
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| I find it interesting that people are more willing to attach implications to a characters actions in an attempt to explain their motivations then they are to reference the [poorly adapted] source material. I agree that there is no overtly obvious reason to think that Manami is a terrible cunt if you only watch the anime, but come on, it's an even bigger stretch to think she had anything called good intentions backing those words. |
Dragon_Slayer_X said: ReasonDesu said: Romedbaumann said: I still can't really see what is so terribly creepy about incest, but I don't want to start an argument about that here. By the way, like Dragon_Slayer I also have a younger brother. So you would say there is nothing questionable or creepy about me having sex with my younger sister? She's of legal age too unlike this fictional scenario this relates to. Would you fall in love and sleep with your younger brother or is that an acceptable scenario to you? Obviously it's all dependent on morals which are subjective but I'm curious. Seriously aren't you getting the wrong idea here? The point was even if i watch incest-themed stuff in anime or any fiction, that doesn't have any effect on what i really am. You are making this out like "since these people watch incest related stuff they must be freaks" similar to how Manami viewed Kyousuke-Kirino's relationship. The anime/LN said at the start "Don't mix 2D with 3D" but that's what you are actually doing now. Also you are mistaking something here................just because they like/love each other do it mean that they only want sex? If you view like/love the same as wanting to have sex/sleeping together that's really a big problems on your morals. If you have ideas like sleeping with your sister after seeing OreImo or KissxSis or Aki-Sora or Yosuga no Sora, isn't that the problem with your mentality rather than the show itself? I have watch a lot of incest related stuff but they never bothered me neither made me think the way you are saying. At the end of the day, it all depends on the person what they choose to do or follow. Now i know why you support Manami because you are both delusional to the max. No you have just jumped to conclusions, please show me where I said because you watch shows like this with an incest related story line it makes you a freak, you have just asspulled that out of nowhere to suit your argument. I was creeped out at people like Romedbaumann who are condoning RL incest. Please actually read and engage some brain functions before throwing your toys out the pram at me. I have no issue with it in anime, I have watched endless shows like this and enjoyed many, there is a line that is questionable to cross though. This anime is sexualised, to say this show hasn't hinted at incestuous sexual relations many times is laughable, it's the nature of shows like these that pander to a specific audience (otaku). |
ReasonDesuJul 2, 2013 10:49 AM
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Zmffkskem said: For a Manami thread there's sure lot of Kirino in it. A 'correct perception' of cases doesn't exist. It's better to justify and find justification for certain cases. Else I can claim anything and supposedly it will be true. That's self refuting. As it that very perception itself then cannot be a correct perception. Dragon_Slayer_X said: Exaccus said: I didn't interpret Manami's words as being said out of spite. Because she doesn't come across as a remotely spiteful person. It seems to me that Manami simply correctly perceived the situation and chose to bluntly tell Kirino what was actually the case. Why is she being hated on for doing just that? As far as I'm concerned, it's Kirino's who is the real problem in this anime. She's caught up in a delusion of what her brother used to be. Her whole life was just chasing this imaginary image of Kyousuke and trying to impress him when he was never the deity figure she made him out to be in the first place. Does the concept of growing up, moving on, and not relying on her brother really such a foreign idea? Really? Shit, her issues got so bad she even went down the creepy route and winded up drooling over little sister eroges of all things. To top it all off she acts like a princessy bitch whenever Kyousuke actually busts his ass to help her out. Fucking pathetic. I have no sympathy for Kirino what so ever. It amazes me that people idolize her when she's such a blatantly terrible person characterized by self-centeredness, an unsavory sexual fetish, immaturity, and a weak will. That said, Manami didn't do anything wrong here, she was merely telling Kirino the way things really are, you know, outside of Kirino's big brother complex fantasies. Again, fucking pathetic. Dude that pathetic line fits you better. Want to know why? - So Manami perceived the siblings closeness as incest and chose to destroy it? Oh so she can see the future now? Seriously i think you should see the anime/read the novel again before posting another dumb comment like that. So every 11-12 old siblings who cling to each other later engage in incest(???)..........Manami and your delusion are really really twisted. - Kyousuke used to be great. The anime and the LN proved that very well. Despite saying that he is normal, he accomplished several abnormal feats even at the cost of his own reputation. Manami is the one who degraded him, taking advantage of the situation and his weak state of mind. That's a cold hard fact, ignore it as you might but it doesn't change. So Kirino's image was not wrong and little sister and like their brother.............it's not incest you dimwit. Go look up what the word actually means. Besides the anime is called Ore no Imouto your damn butthurt Kirino-hater. - Manami didn't do anything wrong here? God i hate people who try to cover up one's faults. I really despise them. What are you gonna say later? It's Kirino's fault because she is the main character? Or it's the writers fault because you didn't like his story? The bottom line is, saying it's not Manami's fault or she didn't do anything wrong her makes you look really really pathetic. Rather funny how you want to make a debate about a fictional piece of media into a personal matter. I would advise that you reassess your priorities, kiddo. Anyway, I'm not familiar with the LN, nor am I interested in reading it. What proof is there that Manami "degraded" Kyousuke? As far as I can tell, he seemed like a perfectly normal and average kid to me when the anime showed the flashback. How was he degraded exactly? And even if Kyousuke happened to be more ambitious when he was a kid, have you ever considered that maybe he just naturally got lazier? That does happen to some people when they get into their teens, you know. Why do you vehemently insist on labeling Manami as the cause of that despite the lack evidence supporting your over zealous assertions? Sorry, but mere conjecture and having a hunch isn't a way to reliably make a conclusion about something. While I'm indifferent to Manami, you Manami haters are going to have to bring some actual evidence to the table to support your gut feelings and speculations. But even if you all do, I really don't care either way. Because it won't change the fact that Kirino is a pathetic and repulsive character. I don't give a damn if she doesn't get to have her precious onii-chan all to herself to play little sister eroges with her. She needs to grow the fuck up, stop living in the past, and actually try to be a somewhat decent person. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
Dragon_Slayer_X said: I actually have to respect Romedbaumann because rather than supporting incest, he is asking what is actually wrong about it and by the way i see it, what he is saying means something similar to "You are free to love anyone regardless of differences/barriers". Rather than cheap taunts who don't you actually give a good explanation to his question? I was raised and lived with my sister for almost half of my life. I love her as my sister and as member of my family. To ask me to justify why I wouldn't fall in love with her or sleep with her is just crude and illogical to me. The love I have for my family and that for my lovers are completely different beasts. Each to their own though if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you. As long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. |
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ReasonDesu said: Dragon_Slayer_X said: I actually have to respect Romedbaumann because rather than supporting incest, he is asking what is actually wrong about it and by the way i see it, what he is saying means something similar to "You are free to love anyone regardless of differences/barriers". Rather than cheap taunts who don't you actually give a good explanation to his question? I was raised and lived with my sister for almost half of my life. I love her as my sister and as member of my family. To ask me to justify why I wouldn't fall in love with her or sleep with her is just crude and illogical to me. The love I have for my family and that for my lovers are completely different beasts. Each to their own though if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you. As long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. I'm surprised, this was a more or less neutral answer. Still why would you say loving your sister is abnormal? I mean especially because you have known her for a long time it would be more logical than to fall in love with a stranger, right? I'm not by any means saying I support incest, really. It's just, and I probably will have to say this again, that I wonder why it is considered wrong, since I don't have an explanation for it and I wonder if anyone has, but well, I'm not blaming you if you don't have one, or don't want to give one, but then don't say anyone who is in love with his sister is abnormal or creepy. |
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Romedbaumann said: ReasonDesu said: Dragon_Slayer_X said: I actually have to respect Romedbaumann because rather than supporting incest, he is asking what is actually wrong about it and by the way i see it, what he is saying means something similar to "You are free to love anyone regardless of differences/barriers". Rather than cheap taunts who don't you actually give a good explanation to his question? I was raised and lived with my sister for almost half of my life. I love her as my sister and as member of my family. To ask me to justify why I wouldn't fall in love with her or sleep with her is just crude and illogical to me. The love I have for my family and that for my lovers are completely different beasts. Each to their own though if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you. As long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. I'm surprised, this was a more or less neutral answer. Still why would you say loving your sister is abnormal? Because I love her as family, I'm not a fan of repeating myself, even if we were not blood related and raised the same I would feel the same way. |
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Dragon_Slayer_X said: We did a lot of times but you just just try to get away by saying "I haven't read the LN". Well rather than repeating read the line below............. Takuan_Soho said: According the animation, in elementary school Kyousuke was top in his class in grades, won all the track meets, designed and produced the festival flyer, and was an active, energetic, and popular kid. In middle school, he gave up track with no reason, relied on Manami to do his studying for him (though his native intelligence allowed him to maintain his top ranking), and had given up doing anything other then lie about at home reading comics and to rely on Manami to do his thinking for him. Kirino confronted Kyousuke about this, and he admitted to it, but couldn't give her an explanation why. So Kyousuke did change and radically as well. While you can think that Kirino was wrong about "why" he changed, she was not deluded in thinking that things "had" changed. Enough to disprove all the BS you are trying to say. Please don't come up with another "I didn't notice" excuse and try to say Manami was right. Whether you are a retarded kirino-hater or just oblivious to the facts, i don't really care. "Try to get away"? Have you ever considered that maybe I'm just not as invested in this as you are? Chill out. You're getting worked up over nothing. And I still don't see how that demonstrates that Manami is in fact THE cause of Kyousuke's supposed decline in ambition. As I said, some people just naturally get lazier when they hit their teenage years. You ignored this possibility, and insist on over zealous assertions about how is HAS to be Manami's fault. I mean, sure, maybe Manami is a contributor or in fact THE cause of Kyousuke becoming lazier, but we don't know that for sure yet. Maybe we should wait and see how the show turns out, hm? Anime can and have turned out differently than their source material. The fact of the matter is that neither Manami or Kirino are without selfish motives when it comes to claiming Kyousuke. The difference is that Manami while admittedly rather bland is at least tolerable. Kirino on the other hand is unbearable and that's why she doesn't elicit any sympathy from me. She still refuses to grow up and realize that her brother is his own separate person with his own life. That said there is nothing even remotely "retarded" about hating Kirino of all the characters in this pitiful show. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
ReasonDesu said: Romedbaumann said: ReasonDesu said: Dragon_Slayer_X said: I actually have to respect Romedbaumann because rather than supporting incest, he is asking what is actually wrong about it and by the way i see it, what he is saying means something similar to "You are free to love anyone regardless of differences/barriers". Rather than cheap taunts who don't you actually give a good explanation to his question? I was raised and lived with my sister for almost half of my life. I love her as my sister and as member of my family. To ask me to justify why I wouldn't fall in love with her or sleep with her is just crude and illogical to me. The love I have for my family and that for my lovers are completely different beasts. Each to their own though if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you. As long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. I'm surprised, this was a more or less neutral answer. Still why would you say loving your sister is abnormal? Because I love her as family, I'm not a fan of repeating myself, even if we were not blood related and raised the same I would feel the same way. Sorry, this was easy to misunderstand, with the "you" and "your" in the second sentence and third sentence I didn't mean you personally, I meant anyone. |
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Romedbaumann said: Sorry, this was easy to misunderstand, with the "you" and "your" in the second sentence and third sentence I didn't mean you personally, I meant anyone. ReasonDesu said: Each to their own though, if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you, as long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. |
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ReasonDesu said: Romedbaumann said: Sorry, this was easy to misunderstand, with the "you" and "your" in the second sentence and third sentence I didn't mean you personally, I meant anyone. ReasonDesu said: Each to their own though, if you think you should be able to have sex with your own family more power to you, as long as you don't expect me to accept it as normal. Let's just leave it at that then and maybe one day I can find a person who is able to explain that to me. |
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Romedbaumann said: Let's just leave it at that then and maybe one day I can find a person who is able to explain that to me. I have explained it but if you can't distinguish between the love between family and the love/lust between lovers then it will be lost on you. |
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tsudecimo said: Spieluhr said: Btw. Kyousuke started the ignoring, when he started growing up and thinking he was too cool to play with her. He left the poor little girl crying alone in the rain on the streets ffs. No, what Kyousuke did was normal when boys grow up they stop hanging out with their sisters because they enter their ''cool'' phase or w/e, the point is that he didn't completely ignore her, he just stopped playing and giving attention to her like he used to. It's not even close to the way Kirino ignored him after she became tsun tsun. Of course it was normal, but it's good yourself admit that he did ignore her, as much as you try to deny. The point is he hurt her first. Then she wanted to be as cool as him to make him as impressed by her as she was by him. But he turned around and lost all his confidence and the things she loved about her idol. She's really young and it's normal to be estranged from a person you resent so much, specially if they're made to feel guilty like how Manami did. Incest did happen in the novel, unless you don't consider kissing your sister and doing a symbolic wedding to her (and wanting to do "H" things to her) incest. I do. Anyway, I know you'll come up with more reasons about how your opinion is right and everyone who disagrees is wrong, so I'll leave you to it. I don't even think anyone needs a reason to dislike a fictional character so I'm not looking to justify it. The Kirino bashing makes it look like butthurt over the ending though, just a warning. |
SpieluhrJul 2, 2013 1:29 PM
| tsuntsun >>> deredere |
| As far as the incest thing goes: Why aren't people able to separate reality from fantasy? Just because you see it in media, that doesn't mean you want to do it in real life. An example that comes to mind is something like GTA. Somebody may have fun killing pedestrians and blowing up cars in the game, but does that mean they want to set the controller down and go on a mass murdering spree for real? Of course not. Both incest and murder in real life are seen as wrong, but why is one okay in media and the other not? I have an older sister, but I can maintain the disconnect in my head when I'm watching something like Oreimo or Yosuga no Sora because that's not how I feel in real life. I don't see my sister in that way and never will. As long as you try to keep reality and fantasy separate, you'll just stop caring and enjoy the show. |
ThisIsDK said: As far as the incest thing goes: Why aren't people able to separate reality from fantasy? Just because you see it in media, that doesn't mean you want to do it in real life. An example that comes to mind is something like GTA. Somebody may have fun killing pedestrians and blowing up cars in the game, but does that mean they want to set the controller down and go on a mass murdering spree for real? Of course not. Both incest and murder in real life are seen as wrong, but why is one okay in media and the other not? I have an older sister, but I can maintain the disconnect in my head when I'm watching something like Oreimo or Yosuga no Sora because that's not how I feel in real life. I don't see my sister in that way and never will. As long as you try to keep reality and fantasy separate, you'll just stop caring and enjoy the show. People do understand that reality and fantasy are different. In this particular case, the incest in an anime might not be happening IRL, but it's still an idea that people are going to find very distasteful or they'll at least be suspicious and uncomfortable towards it. When it comes to finding things to be right, wrong, tasteful, distasteful, etc sexual matters tend to fall under more rigid standards than other matters. This is likely because people intuitively realize that there is no other area of human existence outside sexual matters where people are more vulnerable to shame, abuse, hurt, and manipulation physically and psychologically. Just my two cents. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
ThisIsDK said: As far as the incest thing goes: Why aren't people able to separate reality from fantasy? Just because you see it in media, that doesn't mean you want to do it in real life. If you actually read the thread you would see people have, it went off topic into an RL incest debate, why judge if you haven't read? |
|
ReasonDesu said: If you actually read the thread you would see people have, it went off topic into an RL incest debate, why judge if you haven't read? I said people, as in everyone this applies to, not just a couple users in this thread. |
ThisIsDK said: ReasonDesu said: If you actually read the thread you would see people have, it went off topic into an RL incest debate, why judge if you haven't read? I said people, as in everyone this applies to, not just a couple users in this thread. From what I've seen no-one has said it's bad in an anime, everyone tends to make the distinction between a fictional medium and real life, maybe I have missed it though. I haven't read the entirety of this thread. |
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| Should I be surprised that there was no mention of Sakurai Akimi in this thread? I mean, even wikipedia tells you she is the main cause. I haven't read that far in the LN yet so don't kill me. |
| “A grown man does not apologize. It lowers the value of his soul.” -Araragi Koyomi |
| This hate on Manami has nothing to do with incest or Kirino's wishes on her brother, Kyousuke. It has to do with ethics and the context of the situation -In this case, Manami making blunt accusations based on interpretations, which, in that time-frame, couldn't be proven (That the relationship between Kirino and Kyousuke was just more than a ordinary sibling-love for each other) With that in mind, I find it peculiar how you seem to implicate something negative every time Kirino is in one of your sentences. Of course, you have your own "prerogative". So let me get this straight, Exaccus: Your coming up with some of the most overused arguments ( that by the way is relied upon an interpretation).... ...And afterwards proceeding to place a mundane demeaning insult... |
| Yahari <3 |
7threst said: This hate on Manami has nothing to do with incest or Kirino's wishes on her brother, Kyousuke. It has to do with ethics and the context of the situation -In this case, Manami making blunt accusations based on interpretations, which, in that time-frame, couldn't be proven (That the relationship between Kirino and Kyousuke was just more than a ordinary sibling-love for each other) With that in mind, I find it peculiar how you seem to implicate something negative every time Kirino is in one of your sentences. Of course, you have your own "prerogative". So let me get this straight, Exaccus: Your coming up with some of the most overused arguments ( that by the way is relied upon an interpretation).... ...And afterwards proceeding to place a mundane demeaning insult... Doing this in list form will be easiest. 1) ALL arguments rely upon interpretation, so pointing that out as if it were so kind of flaw is fundamentally misguided. Moreover, an argument is not false just because it's overused. Though as I will outline later in this post, I've got to wonder if you even properly understand what I argued. 2) Pretty funny how you look at my tame "insult" but ignore the ones others made. No bias there. Not selective evidence at all. Nope. 3) "Evade being KO'd"? LOL. If you consider debates about fictions to be that hardcore and serious business, well, you might want to reassess your priorities. 4) It's not my burden to provide proof from the LNs since I'm not making the claim. You and several others are. So it's not a matter of willful ignorance, it's a matter of you not doing your part by bringing that evidence forward. Saying "LOL look it up" is simply in error. Learn how debates and burden of proof works, please. 5) I don't see any refutation of the points I actually made, only sheer dismissal and red herrings. Although I never made any claims that Manami definitely couldn't have been the cause of Kyousuke supposedly being degraded. I just said that I don't see evidence for your position, and that we should wait for the anime to end before over zealously assuming things. Furthermore, even IF Manami turned out to be the cause of Kyousuke's supposed degradation, it still wouldn't matter to me, personally. This is because what Manami does or does not do won't change the fact that over the course of this entire show Kirino will most likely STILL be far more pathetic and detestable since she's been that way from the very beginning of the show. Whereas Manami was more or less just there not doing much of anything. 6) One need not have to personally care about a particular issue to just point out that people aren't arguing properly regarding that issue. I'm just making observations and noting mistakes in reasoning that I see. Again, the ones emotionally invested in this are you and that other guy. So there's no inconsistency on my part as your post wants to imply. Just saiyan. |
| Salmon is delicious. |
Dragon_Slayer_X said: Exaccus said: 7threst said: This hate on Manami has nothing to do with incest or Kirino's wishes on her brother, Kyousuke. It has to do with ethics and the context of the situation -In this case, Manami making blunt accusations based on interpretations, which, in that time-frame, couldn't be proven (That the relationship between Kirino and Kyousuke was just more than a ordinary sibling-love for each other) With that in mind, I find it peculiar how you seem to implicate something negative every time Kirino is in one of your sentences. Of course, you have your own "prerogative". So let me get this straight, Exaccus: Your coming up with some of the most overused arguments ( that by the way is relied upon an interpretation).... ...And afterwards proceeding to place a mundane demeaning insult... Doing this in list form will be easiest. 1) ALL arguments rely upon interpretation, so pointing that out as if it were so kind of flaw is fundamentally misguided. Moreover, an argument is not false just because it's overused. Though as I will outline later in this post, I've got to wonder if you even properly understand what I argued. 2) Pretty funny how you look at my tame "insult" but ignore the ones others made. No bias there. Not selective evidence at all. Nope. 3) "Evade being KO'd"? LOL. If you consider debates about fictions to be that hardcore and serious business, well, you might want to reassess your priorities. 4) It's not my burden to provide proof from the LNs since I'm not making the claim. You and several others are. So it's not a matter of willful ignorance, it's a matter of you not doing your part by bringing that evidence forward. Saying "LOL look it up" is simply in error. Learn how debates and burden of proof works, please. 5) I don't see any refutation of the points I actually made, only sheer dismissal and red herrings. Although I never made any claims that Manami definitely couldn't have been the cause of Kyousuke supposedly being degraded. I just said that I don't see evidence for your position, and that we should wait for the anime to end before over zealously assuming things. Furthermore, even IF Manami turned out to be the cause of Kyousuke's supposed degradation, it still wouldn't matter to me, personally. This is because what Manami does or does not do won't change the fact that over the course of this entire show Kirino will most likely STILL be far more pathetic and detestable since she's been that way from the very beginning of the show. Whereas Manami was more or less just there not doing much of anything. 6) One need not have to personally care about a particular issue to just point out that people aren't arguing properly regarding that issue. I'm just making observations and noting mistakes in reasoning that I see. Again, the ones emotionally invested in this are you and that other guy. So there's no inconsistency on my part as your post wants to imply. Just saiyan. Says the guy who lostly badly in an argument and runs away by saying "I don't want to read the LN" or "he is not invested in this". But he doesn't admit that all he said was a bunch of illogical, stupid and ignorant points and still comes back with similar bs again and again. Not invested enough huh? What a sore loser and total hypocrite!!! People aren't arguing properly huh? Take a look at your arguments that are totally trash and reeks or typical Kirino-hate. Yeah, except that I didn't lose. You are the ones saying "the LN says such and such". My question is: Where? You need to prove this, and not refuse to provide evidence while mistakenly thinking you've done your job when you actually haven't. Secondly, you say my argument is trash yet you haven't actually addressed any my points. Just saiyan, amigo. umadbro.jpg |
| Salmon is delicious. |
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