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May 3, 2021 1:51 PM

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Mummykun said:
ssjokg said:
I mean, he be headed her....and she still stood up.

Yes, and that was very impressive. But I was referring more to the conversation that Shirou had with Rin while Sakura was sleeping in her room the day after. Maybe my memory is confused, but I have the impression that they said something about how Sakura had almost died. Though I do not reject the possibility that it was just a manner of speaking, or maybe that they weren't understanding how powerful Sakura really was.
But I still believe that Gilgamesh could have won if he had gone all out using his EA from the beginning and not underestimated her. Though the movie really gave the impression that he really had no chance at all to win. So what Ufotable did to Gilgamesh in Heaven's Feel is quite the opposite of what Ufotable did to him in Unlimited Blade Works, considering how in the visual novel Gilgamesh was about to lose to Shirou before being interrupted by the grail, while in the anime he was shown as the one about to win against Shirou before the interruption of the grail. So Unlimited Blade Works' anime made Gilgamesh stronger, or Shirou weaker, than in the source material, whereas Heaven's Feel's anime made Gilgamesh weaker, or Sakura stronger, than in the source material.


Rin says that she died at least once, and that her limbs only appear connected on the outside, while the muscles inside are severely tored.

It isnt that Gilgamesh was made stronger in UBW, they just took the inconclusive end of the VN and made Shirou miss his chance.
Supposedly he was going for the head in the VN but the grail interrupts them. In the anime he ends up slashing him on the torso and then he runs out of mana.

Sure Gil could have killed Sakura with Ea. But he has to draw it first. Sakura's shadow is a lot faster.
ssjokgMay 19, 2021 2:13 AM
May 3, 2021 2:38 PM
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ssjokg said:
Mummykun said:

In the visual novel the scene gave a lot more the impression that Gilgamesh only lost to Sakura because he underestimated her and left his guard open as he walked away after believing that he had already succeeded in killing her.
I don't remember it being stated anywhere that EA wouldn't be able to defeat Sakura. And Sakura wasn't immortal anyway. In fact, Gilgamesh almost killed her just with his regular weapons.
I mean, he be headed her....and she still stood up.

Pahmi111 said:
oh come on, you guys really think Gilgamesh is an overpower.

Did you forget that angra mainyuu is known as a beast slayer. And in this route he is inside Sakura body so it makes sense why Gilgamesh can't beat Sakura. Plus, the angra mainyuu itself is not a living thing or an inanimate object, but rather what is called dark matter. Which is where dark matter is the most powerful element In the universe. So EA will not be able to defeat Sakura, who is joined by Angra Mainyuu because Sakura can be said to be almost immortal, while EA herself cannot kill immortal beings.

And for those of you who think Sakura doesn't deserve pity, you better try to feel what she feels. Indeed the reason why Sakura killed Kariya doesn't make sense, But if you will take a different point of view then you will see a different answer. Where could Sakura at that time kill Kariya on the grounds that he was free from pain due to worm crest side effects. I can say that there are many anime that use this concept, "it's better to be killed than having to live in pain".

Then for Shirōu, who threw away his ideology for Sakura's sake, it is indeed deviating from what it should be. But, if we want to open our minds, then we will see the real answer that Shirou Not completely discarding his ideology but he just prioritizes the ideology for someone he loves whether it is wrong. We just take an example, "You have a wife, and your wife killed someone else, then the murdered person's family took her to court, and your wife got the death penalty." Well who will you defend, your wife or other people you don't know at all.


Angra Mainyu cant do shit. It is Sakura's own power that is a threat to Servants. Angra only makes her capable of affecting humans.

Wrong, immortal creatures can be killed. Immortals do have the concept of death, even if it is hard to kill them, like vampires.



ssjokg said:
Mummykun said:

In the visual novel the scene gave a lot more the impression that Gilgamesh only lost to Sakura because he underestimated her and left his guard open as he walked away after believing that he had already succeeded in killing her.
I don't remember it being stated anywhere that EA wouldn't be able to defeat Sakura. And Sakura wasn't immortal anyway. In fact, Gilgamesh almost killed her just with his regular weapons.
I mean, he be headed her....and she still stood up.

Pahmi111 said:
oh come on, you guys really think Gilgamesh is an overpower.

Did you forget that angra mainyuu is known as a beast slayer. And in this route he is inside Sakura body so it makes sense why Gilgamesh can't beat Sakura. Plus, the angra mainyuu itself is not a living thing or an inanimate object, but rather what is called dark matter. Which is where dark matter is the most powerful element In the universe. So EA will not be able to defeat Sakura, who is joined by Angra Mainyuu because Sakura can be said to be almost immortal, while EA herself cannot kill immortal beings.

And for those of you who think Sakura doesn't deserve pity, you better try to feel what she feels. Indeed the reason why Sakura killed Kariya doesn't make sense, But if you will take a different point of view then you will see a different answer. Where could Sakura at that time kill Kariya on the grounds that he was free from pain due to worm crest side effects. I can say that there are many anime that use this concept, "it's better to be killed than having to live in pain".

Then for Shirōu, who threw away his ideology for Sakura's sake, it is indeed deviating from what it should be. But, if we want to open our minds, then we will see the real answer that Shirou Not completely discarding his ideology but he just prioritizes the ideology for someone he loves whether it is wrong. We just take an example, "You have a wife, and your wife killed someone else, then the murdered person's family took her to court, and your wife got the death penalty." Well who will you defend, your wife or other people you don't know at all.


Angra Mainyu cant do shit. It is Sakura's own power that is a threat to Servants. Angra only makes her capable of affecting humans.

Wrong, immortal creatures can be killed. Immortals do have the concept of death, even if it is hard to kill them, like vampires.




Then why does Shirou say "let go of that creature", this means that most of Sakura's power is indeed influenced by angra. This power does not have angra but is a holy grail. but the one that functions to channel this power to Sakura is angra.

Yes, immortals can be killed. But, it requires effort and teamwork (like what happened in Fgo Babylonia). Whereas at that time the gilgamesh was alone. Then, I never said that sakura is completely immortal but rather "almost immortal", but that is more than enough to defend against gilgamesh.But, it's a different story if the opponent is a grand servant.
May 3, 2021 9:10 PM

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20025
Pahmi111 said:

Then why does Shirou say "let go of that creature", this means that most of Sakura's power is indeed influenced by angra. This power does not have angra but is a holy grail. but the one that functions to channel this power to Sakura is angra.

Yes, immortals can be killed. But, it requires effort and teamwork (like what happened in Fgo Babylonia). Whereas at that time the gilgamesh was alone. Then, I never said that sakura is completely immortal but rather "almost immortal", but that is more than enough to defend against gilgamesh.But, it's a different story if the opponent is a grand servant.
The problem isnt that Sakura's connection to Angra makes her stronger but that it makes her "evil" and will kill her...and the rest of the world even if she doesnt do anything.

Sakura's magical ability is a natural enemy to spirits, this includes Servants. Angra's influence only makes it able to physically hurt humans.

wasnt immortal. She lacked the concept of death completely. She was way worse that a "simple" immortal. The moment she gained that concept Gilgamesh one shot her.
True Ancestors like Arcuied are immortals. But they can still be killed with the right tools/weapons or magecraft. Same for Sakura.
is several levels above that. The whole point of the plan to
was so that she would gain the concept of death....and even then it wasnt enough.
May 3, 2021 10:05 PM
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ssjokg said:
Pahmi111 said:

Then why does Shirou say "let go of that creature", this means that most of Sakura's power is indeed influenced by angra. This power does not have angra but is a holy grail. but the one that functions to channel this power to Sakura is angra.

Yes, immortals can be killed. But, it requires effort and teamwork (like what happened in Fgo Babylonia). Whereas at that time the gilgamesh was alone. Then, I never said that sakura is completely immortal but rather "almost immortal", but that is more than enough to defend against gilgamesh.But, it's a different story if the opponent is a grand servant.
The problem isnt that Sakura's connection to Angra makes her stronger but that it makes her "evil" and will kill her...and the rest of the world even if she doesnt do anything.

Sakura's magical ability is a natural enemy to spirits, this includes Servants. Angra's influence only makes it able to physically hurt humans.

wasnt immortal. She lacked the concept of death completely. She was way worse that a "simple" immortal. The moment she gained that concept Gilgamesh one shot her.
True Ancestors like Arcuied are immortals. But they can still be killed with the right tools/weapons or magecraft. Same for Sakura.
is several levels above that. The whole point of the plan to
was so that she would gain the concept of death....and even then it wasnt enough.


okay, I accept the assumption that Sakura's power is purely hers
ssjokg said:
Pahmi111 said:

Then why does Shirou say "let go of that creature", this means that most of Sakura's power is indeed influenced by angra. This power does not have angra but is a holy grail. but the one that functions to channel this power to Sakura is angra.

Yes, immortals can be killed. But, it requires effort and teamwork (like what happened in Fgo Babylonia). Whereas at that time the gilgamesh was alone. Then, I never said that sakura is completely immortal but rather "almost immortal", but that is more than enough to defend against gilgamesh.But, it's a different story if the opponent is a grand servant.
The problem isnt that Sakura's connection to Angra makes her stronger but that it makes her "evil" and will kill her...and the rest of the world even if she doesnt do anything.

Sakura's magical ability is a natural enemy to spirits, this includes Servants. Angra's influence only makes it able to physically hurt humans.

wasnt immortal. She lacked the concept of death completely. She was way worse that a "simple" immortal. The moment she gained that concept Gilgamesh one shot her.
True Ancestors like Arcuied are immortals. But they can still be killed with the right tools/weapons or magecraft. Same for Sakura.
is several levels above that. The whole point of the plan to
was so that she would gain the concept of death....and even then it wasnt enough.


Okay, that's true. It's just that Sakura's immortality is still from angra mainyuu. A case in point is the kirei that had previously died (actually he died before the incident on F / SN), and then at the end of the film he came back to life, even though Sakura was no longer dark sakura. So basically she immortality really comes from angra.
May 3, 2021 10:14 PM

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20025
Pahmi111 said:
ssjokg said:
The problem isnt that Sakura's connection to Angra makes her stronger but that it makes her "evil" and will kill her...and the rest of the world even if she doesnt do anything.

Sakura's magical ability is a natural enemy to spirits, this includes Servants. Angra's influence only makes it able to physically hurt humans.

wasnt immortal. She lacked the concept of death completely. She was way worse that a "simple" immortal. The moment she gained that concept Gilgamesh one shot her.
True Ancestors like Arcuied are immortals. But they can still be killed with the right tools/weapons or magecraft. Same for Sakura.
is several levels above that. The whole point of the plan to
was so that she would gain the concept of death....and even then it wasnt enough.


okay, I accept the assumption that Sakura's power is purely hers
ssjokg said:
The problem isnt that Sakura's connection to Angra makes her stronger but that it makes her "evil" and will kill her...and the rest of the world even if she doesnt do anything.

Sakura's magical ability is a natural enemy to spirits, this includes Servants. Angra's influence only makes it able to physically hurt humans.

wasnt immortal. She lacked the concept of death completely. She was way worse that a "simple" immortal. The moment she gained that concept Gilgamesh one shot her.
True Ancestors like Arcuied are immortals. But they can still be killed with the right tools/weapons or magecraft. Same for Sakura.
is several levels above that. The whole point of the plan to
was so that she would gain the concept of death....and even then it wasnt enough.


Okay, that's true. It's just that Sakura's immortality is still from angra mainyuu. A case in point is the kirei that had previously died (actually he died before the incident on F / SN), and then at the end of the film he came back to life, even though Sakura was no longer dark sakura. So basically she immortality really comes from angra.
I never said it didnt.
May 3, 2021 10:23 PM

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20025
Pahmi111 said:
ssjokg said:
I never said it didnt.


You said earlier that angra only plays a role in turning Sakura into evil, and doesn't confirm my theory that some of the power of sakura comes from Angra, which is immortality.
Didnt say it is the only thing. Being immortal isnt a problem, the problem was that she was a danger to everyone and herself because of Angra's influence(evil).

The "only" part was about her magecraft and how it affects others.
May 3, 2021 10:36 PM
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ssjokg said:
Pahmi111 said:


You said earlier that angra only plays a role in turning Sakura into evil, and doesn't confirm my theory that some of the power of sakura comes from Angra, which is immortality.
Didnt say it is the only thing. Being immortal isnt a problem, the problem was that she was a danger to everyone and herself because of Angra's influence(evil).

The "only" part was about her magecraft and how it affects others.


What I know here is about Gilgamesh who can't beat Sakura because of her immortality. It is not about the evil influence of angra. So what I discussed was the battle of Sakura and Gilgamesh, not about how dangerous angra was.
Pahmi111May 3, 2021 10:44 PM
May 3, 2021 11:19 PM
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I knew this chat group would show up but I didn't expect them to be so direct. LOL
May 17, 2021 10:45 AM

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I think that she is the worst girl.
May 18, 2021 8:32 PM

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Igzeivy said:
I think that she is the worst girl.

I think she's the worst girl too, funny how she's also getting bots on MAL still.
May 31, 2021 7:39 PM

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Sakura best girl. I feel it in my heartstrings every time she says senpai. Sakura, Archer, and Shirou are the ones I understood on a spiritual level. Read the vn
Josuke99May 31, 2021 7:44 PM
Jun 20, 2021 11:19 AM
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xixnub said:
does any one hate matou sakura as i do cause the movie makes you pity her so bad but the movie just tried too hard and that makes me hate her and shirou abandons his ideal for her like wtf and i hate how archer has a little role and gilgamesh is a joke in this one



You don't pity getting taken from your family and thrown in a worm pit for the majority of your life and living for the sole purpose of producing mage children for her abusers? You don't like feeling empathy for others or something? Or are you just a rin/saber fan boy? Also, Shirou abandoning his robotic "must save everyone even if i die" garbage flawed ideals is somehow bad? HF shirou is his best version since he becomes fucking normal and saves sakura instead of saving random people for the sake of playing super hero for his dead dad.
Aug 19, 2021 3:41 PM
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xixnub said:
does any one hate matou sakura as i do cause the movie makes you pity her so bad but the movie just tried too hard and that makes me hate her and shirou abandons his ideal for her like wtf and i hate how archer has a little role and gilgamesh is a joke in this one


So, you think killing and massacre is the good idea to hold?

That mean HF route isn't your route from the beginning. Sakura is the heroine who tries her best to stop her hatred against the world, and tries her best to protect this world, no matter everyone keeps try to kill her.

-----------

The main trouble if HF route ( even from the novel version):
- It actually is Sakura+Rin route. However, you have to read it through Shirou's view. That mean we actually doesn't know what is Sakura doing, and how is Rin thinking about her sister.
- It is the more trouble when Rin always lying herself about everything, while Sakura always hide from you when she's doing everything ( she actually saved Rin and Shirou for 9 times in HF route).

In the movie, its trouble is:
- Sudou forced Sakura to cry too many times ( 8 times? If I remember correctly). But he show the cry scenes very bad that you can't feel anything. In the novel, she actually cries very few ( 3 times). Because she only cries in front of someone she really trust.
- Sudou tries to adapt everything while he doesn't have enough time.
- Something can summary, but Sudou doesn't.

Exp:
+ Summary about Sakura story: he include even the Black Grail information? It just confuse the viewers. Why not simply " it is the story of the girl who is turned to monster."?
+ Kirei story: why not let him say directly " I can't feel the normal happiness. I only feel happy when seeing people's suffer. I hates myself and envies Kiritsugu because of that."??? ( car scene).
+ Dark Sakura explain about how the mud saved Kirei's life in FZ. It isn't necessary. If Sudou have more time, use it to explain how Sakura is enduring and control Shadow from killing people.


StoneFreee said:
Also there were parts where I found her extremely annoying, that bitch is strong as hell and never used it in the 11 years she was tortured and blamed everyone else for their inaction when she obviously didn’t have the guts to end it either. I liked that shiro abounded his ideals because it makes him feel like a different character than he was in UBW but I would’ve rather he killed Sakura if they were going to go with the sad route.


It is simply become she never " is strong as hell" for 11 years.

She only strong if she accept Shadow - which only happen during HGW. And when she accepted Shadow, she will endure the pain which more suffer than even the worms pit. And Angra Mainyu will erase her mind until she totally become the walking dead.

During day 15-16, Dark Sakura actually always enduring the pain; her mind is erasing, and she still busy to keep Shadow from massacre people. Too much thing to do already.
Kohakusama3Aug 19, 2021 3:48 PM
Sep 16, 2021 11:58 AM
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SAKURA TRASH. SHE IS A FUCKING BITCH THAT RAPED OUR DEAR SHIROU.
SAKURA BRUH BRUH
SHIROU IS NOT YOURS
SHIROU IS RIN'S TOO
YOU CAN'T JUST TREAT HIM LIKE HOW SHINJI TREATS YOU
SAKURA YOU ARE DISGUSTING
SHE IS A FREAKING BITCH THAT RAPED A MINOR
BRUH
SAKURA RAPED A MNOR
bruh
DISGUSTING
SHE NAKED IN FATE/STAY NIGHT HEVENS FEEL
I HATE THE MOVIE
IT IS JUST SO DISGUSTING HOW SHIROU AND SAKURA ARE TOGETHER
THAT'S IT
CAP
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