| She dances on the battlefield... |
i_m_a_con_man said: the effects animation were just gorgeous, the action direction was very good but saber vs berserker was a bit better than this. I think that Yutaka Nakamura worked on this fight since there were a lot of scenes with Yutapon cubes and Impact frames. Yutaka Nakamura did not work in this |
 ”A fight isn't won once a victor is decided, it's won when someone loses.” – Izayoi SakamakiI don’t even know the real names of the two… no, three that I killed back then. I just closed my eyes, put my hands over my ears and tried to forget it all.” – Kirito MY ANIME LIST |
Askaa said: i_m_a_con_man said: the effects animation were just gorgeous, the action direction was very good but saber vs berserker was a bit better than this. I think that Yutaka Nakamura worked on this fight since there were a lot of scenes with Yutapon cubes and Impact frames. Yutaka Nakamura did not work in this Yeah I checked later that he didn't worked on this movie but there were definitely Yutapon cubes and Impact frames. Looks like studios are trying to implement those techniques created by him. |
| I have been rewatching parts of the movie and after watching this again for god knows how many times I have to agree with this: Gustop1 said: I agree and disagree, because there's a lot of ways to deffine what is a "good fight" scene, it all comes down to wath each person likes the most; realism over super powers, martial arts fidelity over good animation in surreal fights, fights with clash of ideals instead of a fight just to win or lose, etc BUT MAN If I were to rank all fight scenes I've already seen independently of why they're considered good, Saber vs Rider would clash real hard with any fight that deserves a 1st place, and, for me, a person that loves surreal fight scenes, undoubtly it was the best surreal/superpowered fight scene I've ever seen. This fight was fire af, I don't care if it ended too quickly, for the fight's entire duration I just felt hype, I remained almost breathless. And also add that awful realization that we will probably never get another fantasy fight like this now that ufotable is seemingly done with Fate. Can I hope for similar stuff in future Demon Slayer from them....probably. But ever since ufotable started KnK and Fate adaptations I recognize those as a "passion project". A studio that was known for "crap" like these(never watched but literally noone ever mentions them): https://myanimelist.net/anime/229/Ninin_ga_Shinobuden https://myanimelist.net/anime/1858/Gakuen_Utopia_Manabi_Straight https://myanimelist.net/anime/126/Futakoi_Alternative and every failed Tales anime, suddenly pulled up with the Kara no Kyoukai adaptations something totally different from their comfort zone and what they have done before. Every time since then, with every Type Moon adaptation from serious to slice of life they leave old and new fans with their mouths open. And with the exception of Demon Slayer every other project outside Type Moon, is either major fail or "almost good". Can I hope for other studio to deliver? who knows. OPM 2 missed a good chance at being as good as its s1,by changing the people working on it. Anyway, I hope more studios will start treating their projects like ufo treated its Type Moon adaptations. |
i_m_a_con_man said: Yeah I checked later that he didn't worked on this movie but there were definitely Yutapon cubes and Impact frames. Looks like studios are trying to implement those techniques created by him. Nozomu Abe is also a god with those techniques! |
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Karnox001 said: @ssjokg Tsu-ki-hime! Tsu-ki-hime!! Tsu-ki-hime!!! Tsu-ki-hime!!!! TSU-KI-HIME!!!!! Please Ufotable!!!! It is possible. But I doubt we will see it before the Far Side routes are released. They can start with Near Side too....but we will see. Nasu said that he wanted to buff The Dead Apostles and the rest of the Tsukihime characters to not fall far behind the FGO power scaling so I expect grand fights there. |
ssjokgApr 3, 2021 10:58 AM
ssjokg said: Damn that's really interesting, it hypes me up. Btw it is 100% confirmed that the remake will have Satsuki's route?Karnox001 said: @ssjokg Tsu-ki-hime! Tsu-ki-hime!! Tsu-ki-hime!!! Tsu-ki-hime!!!! TSU-KI-HIME!!!!! Please Ufotable!!!! It is possible. But I doubt we will see it before the Far Side routes are released. They can start with Near Side too....but we will see. Nasu said that he wanted to buff The Dead Apostles and the rest of the Tsukihime characters to not fall far behind the FGO power scaling so I expect grand fights there. |
Karnox001Apr 3, 2021 11:16 AM
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Karnox001 said: Just saw that I wrote impossible instead of possible...damn me.ssjokg said: Damn that's really interesting, it hypes me up. Btw it is 100% confirmed that the remake will have Satsuki's route?It impossible. But I doubt we will see it before the Far Side routes are released. They can start with Near Side too....but we will see. Nasu said that he wanted to buff The Dead Apostles and the rest of the Tsukihime characters to not fall far behind the FGO power scaling so I expect grand fights there. Nasu said it long ago. We dont know if it is a hidden 3rd route for the Near side or will be part of the Far Side. But considering that Satsuki was relevant only in Far Side in the original I am guessing it will be the same in the Remake. |
ssjokg said: Haha don't worry, I still understood it.Just saw that I wrote impossible instead of possible...damn me. Nasu said it long ago. We dont know if it is a hidden 3rd route for the Near side or will be part of the Far Side. But considering that Satsuki was relevant only in Far Side in the original I am guessing it will be the same in the Remake. It looks like Nasu is truly doing some big changes in the remake, like that new classroom teacher and making the town bigger. I hope he gets rid of... certain scenes that... hmm... are not... very comfortable to read...... but he might need to do something with Hisui's and Kohaku's abilities. Also depending on how long the routes in the remake turn out, each route could or could not be adapted in 12-13 eps. However, if each route takes 24-26 eps to adapt, then we are all gonna have to wait like 8 years before the last one is done. Damn, I just depressed myself. Anyway time will tell, it could end up not happening at all lol. |
Karnox001Apr 3, 2021 11:36 AM
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Karnox001 said: FSN by ufotable took 6 years without Fate route. So 8 years is logical.ssjokg said: Haha don't worry, I still understood it.Just saw that I wrote impossible instead of possible...damn me. Nasu said it long ago. We dont know if it is a hidden 3rd route for the Near side or will be part of the Far Side. But considering that Satsuki was relevant only in Far Side in the original I am guessing it will be the same in the Remake. It looks like Nasu is truly doing some big changes in the remake, like that new classroom teacher and making the town bigger. I hope he gets rid of... certain scenes that... hmm... are not... very comfortable to read...... but he might need to do something with Hisui's and Kohaku's abilities. Also depending on how long the routes in the remake turn out, each route could or could not be adapted in 12-13 eps. However, if each route takes 24-26 eps to adapt, then we are all gonna have to wait like 8 years before the last one is done. Damn, I just depressed myself. Anyway time will tell, it could end up not happening at all lol. |
ssjokg said: As long as it happens I'm fine, I can wait. Facts are that Ufotable animated the opening and that Suduo has read Tsukihime (it is said in HF2 booklet iirc), so I have hopes, we just need the remake to sold well and we might get it.Karnox001 said: FSN by ufotable took 6 years without Fate route. So 8 years is logical.Haha don't worry, I still understood it. It looks like Nasu is truly doing some big changes in the remake, like that new classroom teacher and making the town bigger. I hope he gets rid of... certain scenes that... hmm... are not... very comfortable to read...... but he might need to do something with Hisui's and Kohaku's abilities. Also depending on how long the routes in the remake turn out, each route could or could not be adapted in 12-13 eps. However, if each route takes 24-26 eps to adapt, then we are all gonna have to wait like 8 years before the last one is done. Damn, I just depressed myself. Anyway time will tell, it could end up not happening at all lol. |
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| yeah, it's such a great fight scene! |
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| OP, I see you haven't watched many anime. I'm told the fight in episode 22 of Fate/Apocrypha is one of the best, you should check it out. |
kanon90 said: its subjective for sure , but if we are talking strictly on terms of visuals and animation , I think its safe to say that this fight has the best animation and visuals in anime. That's my opinion.The scene is great, loved it overall. There are different types of fighting scenes so I cant say if it's the best or not. Within this franchise I would say despite this awesome fight my favorite remains Kiritsugu vs Kirei in Fate Zero simply because the psychological and philosophical clash between the two men was super intense. The entire series was building up to that and delivered in every aspect. |
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Dab1za9 said: ssjokg said: A studio that was known for "crap" like these(never watched but literally noone ever mentions them): https://myanimelist.net/anime/229/Ninin_ga_Shinobuden https://myanimelist.net/anime/1858/Gakuen_Utopia_Manabi_Straight https://myanimelist.net/anime/126/Futakoi_Alternative Manabi and Futakoi have more creativity in them that any TMxUfotable project, there were simply projects that were fated to fail because how weird most of them are, Manabi is still mentioned a lot and ufotable reputation among the industry back then was fantastic because they offered the most freedom. Futakoi is actually the reason they were choose for KnK and with it they switched for weird project to blockbuster style that made them what they are now. though ever now and then they return to their old style with stuff like Minori Scramble!,Majokko and Emiya-san. this is a good read about the studio https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2020/11/13/ufotables-20th-anniversary-a-tale-of-wild-but-meticulous-growth/ I am not talking about the industry itself tho. I am talking about how an anime fan, especially the casual foreigner, would see this. How many are aware of their non TM and KnY projects?Hοw many knew them before those? In the west, they weren't exactly popular like Bones, Kyoani or Madhouse. Or even Deen. Sure they let their new talents work on the last Tales and it looked great for as much I saw, but who even talks about it? I thought God Eater's experimental design was fine but literally everyone else called it a plague. No comment on Gyo. You wont see most people hear about ufotable and say "oh yeah the guys that did Manabi/Tales/Gyo". Unfortunately not many fans actually care about sakuga animation and direction facts. Even if Manabi etc have more creativity, it isn't what most want to see. If today's fans were around when KnK was first announced for an adaptation by ufo, most would be sceptical because of their old projects. And yes I am half way like that as well. I found ufotable because of Knk back in 2009 and no matter how hard I try to look at the bigger picture I can't say that I would "trust" them with a completely different show than what they have been doing. Obviously I would be wrong for my assumptions but it is what it is. |
ssjokg said: I thought God Eater's experimental design was fine but literally everyone else called it a plague. I found Ufotable because of God Eater, they did the animations for the PSP game and its opening. How many times did I saw those animations when I was 15? I was in love with it, I couldn't stop watching them. Later I discovered the adaptation, I didn't know it was done by the same studio, and I was sceptical about it, because at that time I had not started watching much anime yet. So, as someone who loves God Eater Burst and has over 600 hours at it, I can say that (in my opinion) the adaptation was outstanding and I hoped for a season 2 (because the adaptation didn't reach the most interesting stuff), but now that I know that was their most difficult production (quality was still god tier) and that many people criticize it for stupid reasons like being a rip off of AoT just because it came out 2 years later even though both source materials came out at the same time, I know Ufotable won't try to continue it ever again. |
Karnox001Apr 3, 2021 5:26 PM
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Dab1za9 said: ssjokg said: I am not talking about the industry itself tho. I am talking about how an anime fan, especially the casual foreigner, would see this. How many are aware of their non TM and KnY projects?Hοw many knew them before those? In the west, they weren't exactly popular like Bones, Kyoani or Madhouse. Or even Deen. Sure they let their new talents work on the last Tales and it looked great for as much I saw, but who even talks about it? I thought God Eater's experimental design was fine but literally everyone else called it a plague. No comment on Gyo. You wont see most people hear about ufotable and say "oh yeah the guys that did Manabi/Tales/Gyo". Unfortunately not many fans actually care about sakuga animation and direction facts. Even if Manabi etc have more creativity, it isn't what most want to see. If today's fans were around when KnK was first announced for an adaptation by ufo, most would be sceptical because of their old projects. And yes I am half way like that as well. I found ufotable because of Knk back in 2009 and no matter how hard I try to look at the bigger picture I can't say that I would "trust" them with a completely different show than what they have been doing. Obviously I would be wrong for my assumptions but it is what it is. You are talking about their popularity which is a different thing, what ufotable made before TM was certainly not a "crap" but very well shows that were simply unpopular Well yes, and that is true for later non TM shows as well, like GE. That's why I used quotation marks as well. |
LolJk said: Rider is Medusa. In the legend the Pegasus was born from her decapitated body.(that's why she needs to make that sigil with her blood). He is basically her son.Can someone explain why Rider had a winged horse? I imagine if I read up on her I'd find out eventually, but if someone can tell me in short, it'd be appreciated. |
| Best fight scene of all animes? Nah but one of the best fight scenes ever? Yes. |
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| Well that's what Shirou vs Kirei should've been if it was near the quality of the original. And don't sleep on Shirou vs Saber Alter, the best fight in all of Fate/Stay Night and it ain't even canon. |
| None of us has to exaggerate too much. |
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CLADDAN said: Well that's what Shirou vs Kirei should've been if it was near the quality of the original. And don't sleep on Shirou vs Saber Alter, the best fight in all of Fate/Stay Night and it ain't even canon. Shirou vs Kirei in the VN is just Kirei beating Shirou like a ragdoll. I dont know why you people think that this would make a good fight or even a fight. Saber Alter vs Shirou is 100% canon, just not animated. |
I'm not much of Fate buff so could you tell me how's it canon? |
| The bad/dead endings are also canon in the story. Unless if you mean that it doesnt conclude the story in a good way for anyone. |
ssjokg said: The bad/dead endings are also canon in the story. Unless if you mean that it doesnt conclude the story in a good way for anyone. Ah I see, I was referring to the true end when I talk about canon, but I get it now. As for Kirei vs Shirou, I don't think it's the best Fate fight but the movie didn't do it justice imo. It's not the physical fight that makes it good, but how it represents the finale of the trilogy. With Kirei being the "final boss" for Shirou to beat (something the movies don't do very well imo since he gets less screentime) and Shirou being pushed to his absolute limit after he used Archer's arm (another thing I wished the movie put more emphasis on), and all of that was portrayed better with all the inner monologues but I understand why those were cut, still I was disappointed by it. |
CLADDAN said: ssjokg said: The bad/dead endings are also canon in the story. Unless if you mean that it doesnt conclude the story in a good way for anyone. Ah I see, I was referring to the true end when I talk about canon, but I get it now. As for Kirei vs Shirou, I don't think it's the best Fate fight but the movie didn't do it justice imo. It's not the physical fight that makes it good, but how it represents the finale of the trilogy. With Kirei being the "final boss" for Shirou to beat (something the movies don't do very well imo since he gets less screentime) and Shirou being pushed to his absolute limit after he used Archer's arm (another thing I wished the movie put more emphasis on), and all of that was portrayed better with all the inner monologues but I understand why those were cut, still I was disappointed by it. Yes, and they didn't even exchange comments about Kirei's Bajiquan. I was already expecting Shirou's monologues to be removed, which I knew that would make the fight seem worse than in the visual novel, but I had hope that some great animation would somehow make up for the lack of the monologues. And especially because of how wonderful was Rider vs Saber Alter fight, that increased a lot my expectations for how extraordinary Shirou's last fight with Kirei would look animated. But, instead, we got a boring short fight with two men exchanging some boring looking punches. And the part in which Shirou apologises for taking Kirei's time was pointless in the movie. In the visual novel they had a long conversation before starting the fight, so it made sense for Shirou to apologise for taking Kirei's time, but in the movie it sounded stupid, since they were already fighting. In the movie the fight seemed like a generic shounen fight in which the clash of ideals occurs alongside with the clash of moves in the fight, but in the visual novel the fight only started when Shirou recognized that it would be pointless to discuss, since neither of them would stop living the way they were living, so they would have to decide the thing with sheer force independently of who was right or wrong in the discussion. Also, making Kirei overwhelm Shirou was really an important aspect of the original fight, since it made Kirei seem like a real threat. So making Kirei weaker is another factor that made the fight seem more boring in the movie. I think that was a pity because the one in the visual novel is my favourite Fate fight, and I don't think that another official animation of the fight will ever be produced, so this movie was probably the last opportunity for it to be well animated. By the way, I can understand how to many people making the fight more even seemed like a good thing, especially if they are Shirou fans, but to people who are a lot more Kirei fans (like me) it's obvious that a scene with Kirei being shown as an unstoppable monster would seem more interesting. |
ColtBuntlineApr 6, 2021 7:50 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
TLDR; it's not 100% the same as the VN |
Karnox001Apr 6, 2021 11:52 PM
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Mummykun said: By the way, I can understand how to many people making the fight more even seemed like a good thing, especially if they are Shirou fans, but to people who are a lot more Kirei fans (like me) it's obvious that a scene with Kirei being shown as an unstoppable monster would seem more interesting. I am fun of both and while they removed Shirou's monologues , we know from their past conversations(in the car) why they fight. If people can call Kirie vs Kiritsugu deep and philosophical when they didnt exchange one word during it or had any interaction prior to it, then ufo's Kirei vs Shirou deserves a freaking Nobel prize in literature(or cinematography whatever counts). We know why they fight. Would having all of Shirou's lines be better. Yeah sure. But we know who they are and how they see the world/themselves, and we know that they know each other personally. And yes I like that they are more even, with Kirei still be on top. Kirei had no heart for an entire day and Shirou's body is at the level of a weak Servant(or Kirei before he lost his heart) thanks to the arm, which they show when they saved Ilya. So it makes more sense for them to be even at the end. And "boring" punches between two dying men makes more sense than anything grandiose. I mean that's what it was in the VN. It was the build up to that scene, the ost and as you said the myriad of monologues that made it not the actual onesided beatdown. The anime flipped it and delivered a fight that was actually interesting to see, not because of they choreography but because either could die, and cut down the monologues. For me the only thing that hurts the scene is the cut at the end because of Zouken's scene. Add to that the OFFICIAL subs that translated the difference in "time" as "speed" making Shirou appear faster. And well....Shirou's flashback to Sakura and "Get lost. Sakura can't smile if you exist――――!" missing from the fight was kinda painful so I get your feelings. |
| Have none of you seen Mob Psycho 1/2, or even the recent JJK? Don't get me wrong.. to me the only real highlights of these movies are the Saber Alter fights, but a major problem I have with them is they were heavy on the flash. There was a real lack of exchanging blows. Feel like I probably enjoyed Apocrypha fights more overall (been a while since I watched the other fates so can't rememebr) |
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ssjokg said: Mummykun said: By the way, I can understand how to many people making the fight more even seemed like a good thing, especially if they are Shirou fans, but to people who are a lot more Kirei fans (like me) it's obvious that a scene with Kirei being shown as an unstoppable monster would seem more interesting. I am fun of both and while they removed Shirou's monologues , we know from their past conversations(in the car) why they fight. If people can call Kirie vs Kiritsugu deep and philosophical when they didnt exchange one word during it or had any interaction prior to it, then ufo's Kirei vs Shirou deserves a freaking Nobel prize in literature(or cinematography whatever counts). We know why they fight. Would having all of Shirou's lines be better. Yeah sure. But we know who they are and how they see the world/themselves, and we know that they know each other personally. And yes I like that they are more even, with Kirei still be on top. Kirei had no heart for an entire day and Shirou's body is at the level of a weak Servant(or Kirei before he lost his heart) thanks to the arm, which they show when they saved Ilya. So it makes more sense for them to be even at the end. And "boring" punches between two dying men makes more sense than anything grandiose. I mean that's what it was in the VN. It was the build up to that scene, the ost and as you said the myriad of monologues that made it not the actual onesided beatdown. The anime flipped it and delivered a fight that was actually interesting to see, not because of they choreography but because either could die, and cut down the monologues. For me the only thing that hurts the scene is the cut at the end because of Zouken's scene. Add to that the OFFICIAL subs that translated the difference in "time" as "speed" making Shirou appear faster. And well....Shirou's flashback to Sakura and "Get lost. Sakura can't smile if you exist――――!" missing from the fight was kinda painful so I get your feelings. Yeah, in the movie we do get to know why they fight, like you said, and I'm not complaining that there wasn't enough explanation about their world views or anything. I was just referring to how in the movie Shirou's apologise to Kirei didn't make sense. The meaning of his apologise changed with the fact that they were already fighting, instead of having a long discussion before the fight. An important reason why they even had the discussion about their ideals in the first place was because Shirou was very weakened, and he wanted to save power to be able to stop the grail, so he did not want to fight Kirei there. And the apologise came as a sign to show that Shirou recognized how it would be pointless to argue against Kirei at that point, so they would have to fight anyway. Also, the fact that you're saying you're a fan of both clearly shows that you don't really fit in the category that I was referring to there. I'm obviously not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, but in the end of my message I was really referring to people who like Kirei a lot more than Shirou. So in grand part it's also a simple matter of personal preference. While I recognise that I may have exaggerated in calling those "boring" punches, I still believe that the scene would have been more interesting if Kirei was shown as some kind of unstoppable monster making Shirou suffer, while exploring as much as possible the uniqueness of Kirei's fighting style with Bajiquan moves, which the movie didn't represent well, unlike Fate/Zero. And the movie also failed to convey how menacing each of Kirei's punches was to Shirou. And I do not argue that it did not make sense for the fight to be more even. It's true that they were two dying men, and it's also true that Kirei had no heart for an entire day while Shirou was strengthened thanks to Archer's arm, but that is all the more reason why the fight seemed so interesting in the visual novel. I liked how the fight gave the impression that Kirei just "wouldn't go down" despite his state without a heart, and how he was having to punch a body made of steel with bare hands. I remember how exciting I found how Kirei suddenly turned into a "broken" character, considering how easily he died in Fate and in Unlimited Blade Works. So, basically, what I'm trying to say is that the more powerful Kirei was in the end, the more badass he would seem, making the fight more interesting, at least to me. Just comparing their last position in the fight makes it clear how much more of a threat Kirei was in the original fight: In the movie Shirou was still standing on the same level as Kirei in the end, and it didn't give the impression of how desperate would be Shirou's situation if Kirei managed to land that punch. And Nakata Jouji's comparatively bad performance also didn't help. In the visual novel Kirei's voice gave more the impression that he was allowing Shirou to pass when he spoke his last words. Other than that, I still believe that the animation was lazy. I know it's much easier said than done, but I feel like they could have made the fight look more visually impressive if they really wanted to. If you were satisfied with it, that's fine. We can have our different views on it. And I agree that the cut showing Zouken dying was bad. I also didn't like how they removed the scene in which Zouken meets Illya before dying. |
ColtBuntlineApr 7, 2021 9:28 AM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
| Nothing can deny this. Holy shit, this movie is fucking beautiful, artwise and storywise. |
| Based Certified. I love anime armpits. |
| I think from purely an animation perspective, when considering the character, effects, background animation etc, this has to be the greatest (if not one of) fight sequence of all time. While other shows might have specific cuts that are similar in quality, they normally last for 20-30 seconds max, while the Salter vs Rider fight was minutes upon minutes of amazing animation. In recent memory, JJK Ep 19, Mob Psycho S2 Ep 11, My Hero S4 Ep 13 all had specific cuts from Watanabe / Onsen / Nakamura respectively, but they don’t span the whole fight and more act as the climax scenes for the fight, as the cuts before and after them aren’t on the same level. When considering the fight overall though, there are definitely other fight scenes that carry much more importance and weight with them, with much greater stakes. Even within the same movie, while the Salter vs Rider fight is epic, many of the fights and confrontations later on pack way more of a punch with what’s on the line and how they relate to the story. It’s an amazing fight though, we’re blessed to get adaptions of this quality from Ufotable. I really hope they continue to adapt more of the Fate verse, and if not I hope they pick up a really good series |
| What amazes me the most in this fight is how Ufotable's animators have overcome their weaknesses to deliver something that 5-10 years ago would be unimaginable. Allow me to explain myself; Ufotable has always been known for their use of CGI, specially for backgrounds in order to do complex camera movements. This is because their animators were not experienced in background animation, the most we could see is close ups of cracks in the ground and things like that, so only freelancers like Nozomu Abe would do "bigger" background animations. But in this fight, almost every animator did background and debris animation and that shows how the staff is always trying to surpass themselves to make unbelievable things. Let alone the absurdly insane impact frames, smears and different styles of animation as well as stunning post-production this movie had... Edit: I'm not implying that background animation is better than 3D backgrounds, both have pros and cons. |
Karnox001Apr 10, 2021 11:34 AM
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| Easily the best female fight the animation is beyond god tier how can they out do their Saber Alter vs Berserker fight like what?! One of my favorite fights in anime! |
| If you want me to prepare a rope for the sake of hanging yourself, forget it. But… If it's a rope for the sake of pulling you up from Hell, no matter how many ropes it takes, I'll prepare them for you. ~Sakata Gintoki |
| yoo i just wwatched this movie .. and i agree, best epic action of this show is Battle between Rider Vs alter Saber !!! i cant compare with other else even kimetsu no yaiba movie still too far !! |
Waifu4Laifu_69 said: Its definitely one of the best fights ever, but I personally prefer Shirou vs Kirei because it felt like the end of Fate/Stay Night and I found it more interesting. Although I do think that Saber Alter vs Rider had much better animation and it would have definitely been my favorite fight of all time if it weren't for Kirei vs Shirou I NEVER HAD A STRATEGY TO BEGIN WITH! |
| anybody who agrees with this probably watched no shonen anime... |
  "I can't trust a website where csm is rated higher than hxh"- Akira Toriyama  |
| I prefer Berseker vs Salter a little more. |
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ErnaSB said: You guys really need to watch Jujutsu Kaisen. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
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