Gintama.: Shirogane no Tamashii-hen Episode 8 Discussion

Uchiha_Shadow said:

302(not so much but lots of still-shots), 303, 306, 325, 327.
Those are basically the weakest episodes in those arcs and people complained about them the same as with this episode. for FS I'm not too sure, but I think 312 was the weakest. FS and RDB were more balanced than SA(which sacrificed certain episodes to make others look glorious).

YGP said:
This episode was really bad in animation, BUT, we already had worse episodes.
The recent 337 is definitely the worst episode that I saw, in addition to those already cited 303, 306, 312, 327.

Salamak said:
also sougo vs kamui was one of the bests.

Uchiha_Shadow said:

Just saying that was in episode 301, which was one of the best episodes.
303 was obviously weak, the fight with the Yatos was pretty stiff.

Uchiha_Shadow said:

302(not so much but lots of still-shots), 303, 306, 325, 327.
Those are basically the weakest episodes in those arcs and people complained about them the same as with this episode. for FS I'm not too sure, but I think 312 was the weakest. FS and RDB were more balanced than SA(which sacrificed certain episodes to make others look glorious).

SenpaiJay98 said:
312 was good with fluid movements with elizabet and Saito cutting down Naraku, Gintoki and Hijikita fighting Naraku up a mountain, first class with Oboro and nobume etc., but not great with the far away artwork(buht for me, movement>>>>artwork)

Salamak said:
no one talks about censors? :/ that scene where they guy holding otae's friend hand gets crushed to the ground was brutal, i hate that they censored it :/ and there will be worse than this one



also i think ougai was beaten pretty easily, none of the kunais or logs really hurt him..or it didn't feel like it..
and why was gintoki wiping his forehead after he got up to deliver the last blow?

the comedy was good, TWD reference was great, action was off, but the action between utsuro and ginoki was great so i don't need to worry about important parts.
in the scene where they attack ougai from 3 directions and he blows them away with a swing, gintoki was leaning on the fence, he should have fallen off lol.
was this the first time tskuyo's kunais didn't hit gin? XD

will gintoki pick a real sword in this arc?..

Draconix814 said:

Wasn't the censor there bc they didn't want us knowing that his hand got cut off until after it did? Granted they didn't need to do the black bars, they could have just done it more off screen, but it looked like it was intentional...

Draconix814 said:

Wasn't the censor there bc they didn't want us knowing that his hand got cut off until after it did? Granted they didn't need to do the black bars, they could have just done it more off screen, but it looked like it was intentional...

GoldenDevilGamer said:
That's not the only censorship, as there's this too:


Seems like TV Tokyo didn't allow that either, despite having a late-night time-slot. Whenever limbs come off in Gintama, they tend to be clean cuts that don't show limb joints or bones. Seems like this censorship was covering a joint or something, considering the camera. Violence that only shows blood and no joints is okay for TV Tokyo, for example, this:

Anyways, any censorship will be removed in BDs and DVDs.

GoldenDevilGamer said:
@Salamak Actually, Gintama 2015 was also on TV Tokyo (but on Wednesdays 6 pm, rather than the current Monday 1:35 am).

How gruesome Gintama feels really does depend on the use of blood (and the use of sound effects). When blood is drawn with a sense of thickness (using multiple shadings of red to create depth withing the blood), scene do look more gruesome. A good chunk of SA and FS arc uses this type of blood style, but there are episodes where a flatter blood style is used. Rakuyou's use of blood was the same as the previous episodes, except it's all done quickly. In SA and FS, scenes kinda linger on the blood and it Rakuyou, someone gets hit, blood comes out and then it quickly cuts to another scene/angle (for example, during the Kamui fight, when Gintoki and Shinpachi use their bokuto to hold both of Kamui's arms, etc). This arc has been using a lot of the flatter blood style, mainly because of stylistic reasons. In the previous arcs, enemies get stabbed, shot, punched, etc, but barely do they ever get their limbs cut off. Therefore using the detailed blood will still be safe for TV Tokyo. This arc is definitely bloodier and the only way they can counter that is by using flatter blood. For example, if the blood was much more detailed when the Dakini got beheaded in the episode, they probably would've needed to censor the beheading with black shading. For example, when the episode censored the guy's hand during the roof scene, the blood dripping from the hand was probably much more detailed.

If they're already censoring the violence here, then I have no idea what they'll do during the final fight since that's a blood and gorefest XD

Salamak said:
i know, i've seen mere panels and there was so much blood, i honestly wonder what'll happen.. but atleast i can say now S.S wont be as good as S.A..

On a second thought, there are as much amputation in this arc as there were in previouse ones, you sure tv tokyo isn't being more strict with these kind of things?..

BliuBliu said:
I really hope there won't be any obvious censorship like in that scene with the black bar from here on. They better not fuck up the final fight and all of the great scenes from the manga. I fucking hate censorship! Come on, man. When will the producers or whoever the fuck is responsible stop being such fucking pussies and stop with the censoring bullshit! I just don't understand this. When I was a kid in the 90s, me and all the other kids saw all kinds of stuff on TV and turned out fine. This shit makes me rage so much!

GoldenDevilGamer said:

I'm actually surprised by the fact that Gintama was able to make it this far while avoiding censorship. Especially since Gintama used to be in a family-friendly time slot before. Oh well, the laws are laws and Gintama won't be getting any exception. It's a shame for sure if the final fight gets censorships, but at least there's uncensored BDs, so censorship is never "permanent".

BliuBliu said:

I mean, if they really have to censor, they could at least not use the goddamn black bars! There has to be a better, less glaring way to do it. Damn it, I'm having flashbacks to Stardust Crusaders because of this shit now. And blood, too. They need to change that, it looks really bad. I may be nitpicking according to some people, but I just want the best for Gintama, man. :/

GoldenDevilGamer said:
I guess the only way they can avoid censorship is by using the flatter blood style. I think the best way to adapt the final fight would be like this (while possibly avoiding censorship):

Thicker blood for stuff like this:
Thinner blood for stuff like this:

Icha-kun said:
This anime is too bad.. I sleepy watching that.. No impact… just bad joke.. I hate this arc….

Salamak said:

i checked 303 and 312, 325 and 327.
my problem is not the still images , the art style is bad too. the blood is bad , it doesn't feel like blood, the animation is not heavy , it doesn't feel like much damage is done when they cut somebody down. i don't even know why ougai was defeated he seemed totally fine.
303 and 312 are not like this at all. the art style is beautiful and consistent things aren't censored like this one (well maybe blue rays will look better, atleast these shots are animated but censored ) also sougo vs kamui was one of the bests. 325 art style is good too, but i agree 327 is similar to this ep, but it wasn't action heavy as this one.


i can only agree on 327, seriously what is that bad in 303 and 312 ? ..

YGP said:
Both 303 and 312 have several inconsistencies and still images.

Yorozuyaaa said:
I have a question to all staff works on Gintama. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?
This is the final arc and you will do this shit just for ONE time. Why aren't you doing it properly? Why are you rushing and messing up? I am really really sad after this episode, and I almost lost my hope for next episeodes. BNP should be ashamed themselves because even the animation(ok, maybe not animation but pacing and storyboard) of first 100 episodes which are aired in 2006-2007 were waaay better than this arc. And please don't tell me, BNP and Sunrise are actually same. If they are really same, I can just say, whole staff must be bored from working on Gintama
Actually, this episode was supposed to be perfect. It was very intense, exciting and also funny. But, animation and pacing fucked up the whole episode. Even in non-action/comedy moments, animation was terribly bad, also pacing was terribly bad which makes jokes less funny. As for action scenes, they were the worst part. I didn't get even what is happening. I try to imagine these fights as the animation level of "4 devas arc" or "Courtesan of the Nation"... Wow, if it was the case, this episode would probably become one of my favorites. But now, not even close...unfortunately :(

Salamak said:

they were not as bad as this. still images is fine with me, bad art style and actions having no impact on the other hand..

SenpaiJay98 said:
Do you guys think that Episode 326(it also adapted 5 chapters in 1 episode) was paced better than this episode because Episode 326 adapted 2 chapters for the first half and 3 chapters for the 2nd half...while Episode 349 adapted 1 chapter in the first half and 4 in the second half?

YGP said:
I can't deny that this episode has a terrible animation, BUT:

1: This is the first episode with bad animation in this season:
In Gintama. and Porori-hen, their respective episodes 2 already have problems in some cuts. Silver Soul was only having serious problems now, in episode 8.

2: After fight episodes, the next episode usually is most weak:
Remember 306, 327, 337 ? The episode 345 is one of the best episodes of Gintama on animation, almost almost everything was fluid animation (I can guarantee this, I put everything in SakugaBooru). The following episode was 346, that was make by a bad staff, but was good. Even with a episode absurdly well done, the production remained good for 3 more episodes!

3: This episode was made by a not very good staff:
The director and writer are good, the direction of this episode don't have problems, the pacing was good and the direction tried use this to make up for the lack of good animation. The director of this episode is a veteran and is ready for these types of problems. The episode has several ADs that don't work in Gintama. BNP no is a trash because this episode.

4: "Sunrise>>>BNP" ? Don't make me laugh:
Sunrise and BNP are the same studio. You hate BNP ? I agree, Sunrise is a trash.
Talking serious, Gintama is made by same studio, has new people in the staff, some bad, some good. This episode has 3 veteran, one of these was Tadayoshi Okimura, he worked on old seasons, but... your episodes....

Another point:
People get worse. YES. Even if someone is good before, it does not mean that it will be good forever. Tadayoshi Yamamuro of Dragon Ball, he was a good animator and Character Design in the past, but actually he is an poor animator.

5: The next episode is more important:
If you have read the manga, know that the next episode will have fights more intense and importance than this episode.

6: The production already made miracles:
A SoloKA episode.
An outsourced episode for another BNP studio.
The episode 345.

7: Producing animes currently is more difficult:
Gintama staff don't have a giant list of animators for action, like Toei Animation, Bones or Trigger. Don't have contacts with several animators freelancers like A-1 Pictures, Mappa and Pierrot, even having Keiichiro Honjo(sometimes), Youhei Sasaki, Noriko Onishi and others, the famous animators like Hironori Tanaka, Yuyu Takahashi, Kazunori Ozawa, Yuki Hayashi, Sejoon Kim, Yuki Hayashi are in other animes.
Sunrise/BNP is doing the best with what they has.

8: The episode 349 has moments with good animation.:
Ougai destroying the Kabukicho's gate looks pretty cool.
Yagyuu clan's fights have less still frames and the Youhei Sasaki's cut, that is definitely sakuga.
https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/46569

Gintama isn't an anime with a perfect staff, episodes with problems ever happened and continued to happen, but the production of this season is better than Rakuyou for example and this episode is very better than 337 of Porori-hen, one of worse animation episodes of Gintama.

I recommend that in case you can not watch slightly weaker episodes in animation, watch Mob Psycho 100, is very good and have a awesome animation you give up on Gintama, because its production is like this.

GoldenDevilGamer said:
And to add on to the previous comments, comparing a serious arc that's only 4-5 episodes long to this arc is straight up unfair. No shit Four Devas and Courtesan looks great, because they're really short arcs and comedy episode happen before and after it. This gives much less of a time constraint on the staff. SA and FS arc were back-to-back for 17 episodes straight. Luckily BNP had a two-week break after episode 303 and Episode 311's last third was basically a freebie. Rakuyou was 12 episodes, and surprisingly, the series looked basically great besides a couple of moments and episode 327. Silver Soul is most definitely a 25+ episode arc with almost non-stop action. They have some comedy episodes that basically saves their production, but even the comedy episodes have great production values (Episode 343 and 348 were visually great episodes, even though they didn't need to be). Next episode is much more important and it's obvious that something needs to be sacrificed for the sake of other things. Gintama will have two more episodes of non-stop action, and then one episode with less action, and then it will have to go through 10+ episodes of non-stop action. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of these episode gets sacrificed for the final fight of the series.

GoldenDevilGamer said:
The chapters 326 adapted weren't that dialogue heavy. It had some pages filled with dialogue, but the rest of the pages were just panels without dialogue. The last three chapters they adapted were less wordy, so the episode weighed out the two halves. As for Episode 349, the first chapter they adapted was insanely dialogue heavy. It was on par with the amount of dialogues you would see in a Gintama chapter that's 100% comedy. Also the second half of the episode was a bit longer than the first half. Anyways, the first three chapters they adapted were perfectly paced and they didn't really skip much besides a tiny bit of dialogue that's nothing more than irrelevant. The last two chapters were adapted in 5 minutes. The main thing they cut out was the monologues of the Yagyuu Shitennou and theirs thoughts. Some other tidbits of dialogue was cut out in chapter 619 too.

Episode 326 is better paced because of it being less dialogue heavy, while Episode 349 adapted one really dialogue heavy chapter, two moderately dialogue heavy chapters, and two not-so dialogue heavy chapters. Everything up to the Ougai fight was perfectly paced. The Ougai fight feels rushed because of some of the dialogues being skipped, which ultimately leads to it being a fight where it's just scene-after-scene with too fast of a flow. In some ways it's a bit better. Some of the overly generic commentary Ougai and Gintoki made feels too shounen-y. In this episode, it felt like a fight that doesn't really need characters talking pointless stuff (their weapons will do the talking). But at the same time, the lack of dialogues could also make the fight not have the weight it needs. Their commentary might be generic, but some of the tactics might need clarification. And the lack of dialogue lead to the fight ending rather quickly.

SenpaiJay98 said:
chapter 615 is what took a huge chunk from this episode, they probably should have just cut out a few gags so that it gives more breathing room for the fight(because 4 chapters in 1 half of a episode is ridiculous

Salamak said:
@GoldenDevilGamer

If they really took a 2 week break before 304-5, isn't that going to happen in this season too?..maybe even multiple times..

SenpaiJay98 said:
they only took a 1 week break for holidays(why do you think every 4 cour TV Tokyo anime is 51 episodes instead of 52?

Salamak said:

I wasn't watching then, i don't know which episodes came out when..and he said 2 weeks.
And you're saying enchousen had 2 big breaks..

I'm thinking the probability of 2 split course may not be that low. Although they had a lot of time for s.s unlile the other 2 seasons..

FMmatron said:
Wow,this episode is really cheap,guess their saving some budget for next time ?

Ok second half looked better and comedy was great too.

GoldenDevilGamer said:
A one week break is when they skip a week. So technically, that made a two week break between Episode 303 and 304. They had to take the break because of the holidays and TV Tokyo basically had all the timeslots at that time booked because they were airing holiday specials.

Enchousen was actually a 23 episode season, with 13 new episodes and 10 reruns. Reruns aired before and after Courtesan.

The possibility of a split cour isn't too low, but I do think that they're planning on airing all of this arc together.

SenpaiJay98 said:
Depends, because if the series goes into Volume 75-77 then I see a 3rd cour happening(which would need at least a 6 month break so that they can prepare a 2 cour finale for this series IF there is a break after this cour)