So why people consider Fate/Zero as the real Fate serie and other works beside that a fail of the franchise?
StardustReverie said: zero is aimed at teenagers who want to feel intelligent with it's highly applauded and philosophical themes of "lol what doe s it meanto be king lol", zombies and healthy doses of pointless gore, despair and darkness. also never forget the COOL brooding "adult" "protagonist(s)" with a dark past who the teenager can self insert into with their own similarly dark past. you can just see it in their eyes: "i will SO be kerry when i grow up!!!!!!!!!" More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! |
Aardwolf94Oct 29, 2017 2:44 PM
Aardwolf94 said: More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! You dare to say this while you have OPM as a favorite and giving DBZ a 10.. HMMM |
Veromaye said: Aardwolf94 said: More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! You dare to say this while you have OPM as a favorite and giving DBZ a 10.. HMMM What kind of logic is that? Just because I like F/Z a lot doesn't mean I only like dark and tragic stuff, that would get old quickly. But DBZ (impacted by nostalgia but I still love it) and OPM are actually done well, have good characters and are entertaining..as opposed to UBW which had atorcious characters (apart from Archer) and a lame dragged out story. |
| I'll never get tired of the new generation of "anime critics' buzzwords". It's always pretty amazing to see people abusing words like "self insert", "generic shonen", "cliché/tropes" etc like if saying those immediately makes their point validated lol What a great century to live in!! |
 |
xeco said: It does not matter how many arguments they have , the only canon is Fate Stay Night, Fate Zero was never , is not and is never going to be canon , its also not the best of the fates , people only like it because is more dark so only people that like to think that they are so manly and so cool say those things , just fanboys, Fate Zero has one of the worst anime fandoms that exist and also the most delusionals because they think its canon lol How is it not canon?? Isn't it the prequel of F/SN? Makes some sense dude. People like it because it has good characters, a dark atmosphere which fits considering a war is going on and overall it was just a well done entertaining anime..the opposite of UBW And F/SN fans are far worse with their silly "secondaries" bs just because people don't have time to read some lackluster porn novel. |
Aardwolf94 said: What kind of logic is that? Just because I like F/Z a lot doesn't mean I only like dark and tragic stuff, that would get old quickly. But DBZ (impacted by nostalgia but I still love it) and OPM are actually done well, have good characters and are entertaining..as opposed to UBW which had atorcious characters (apart from Archer) and a lame dragged out story. My logic? Is your logic actually. I'm not talking about UBW at all. Actually I don't care if people think UBW is crap. My point here is that people tend to use Fate/Zero as a main source for criticizing other fate works. WHY? If it's NOT the main core of Fate AT ALL. The main core of Fate are SN UBW and HF like a lot of others said. So why every Zerofan ( or any other ) use it like the epitome of Fate when it isn't? Isn't using it for "liking it rather than other fates" a mistake? Isn't it saying "I like kerry rather than shero bicoz he dark and edgy" a stupid way of criticizing a work? Of course you can prefer Zero for 'reasons' but you should totally not use it to compare or review another part. |
Veromaye said: Aardwolf94 said: What kind of logic is that? Just because I like F/Z a lot doesn't mean I only like dark and tragic stuff, that would get old quickly. But DBZ (impacted by nostalgia but I still love it) and OPM are actually done well, have good characters and are entertaining..as opposed to UBW which had atorcious characters (apart from Archer) and a lame dragged out story. My logic? Is your logic actually. I'm not talking about UBW at all. Actually I don't care if people think UBW is crap. My point here is that people tend to use Fate/Zero as a main source for criticizing other fate works. WHY? If it's NOT the main core of Fate AT ALL. The main core of Fate are SN UBW and HF like a lot of others said. So why every Zerofan ( or any other ) use it like the epitome of Fate when it isn't? Isn't using it for "liking it rather than other fates" a mistake? Isn't it saying "I like kerry rather than shero bicoz he dark and edgy" a stupid way of criticizing a work? Of course you can prefer Zero for 'reasons' but you should totally not use it to compare or review another part. Of course its not the main part (the VN is) since it was only written as a prequel later on but that doesn't mean that anime only people (like me) who have only watched F/Z and UBW won't compare them both. Its natural to do that in a franchise and F/Z set a high standard for many. Just think about it. We go from dark battle royale with ensemble cast full of adults (refreshing in anime, no matter how you see it) fighting each other to a Highschool/SOL anime with a boring naive hero and a tsundere as the only leads... It may not be the main "core" of Fate but its the only one which was good for me and of course I'll compare the characters, tone and story with F/SN UBW's. |
Aardwolf94 said: Of course its not the main part (the VN is) since it was only written as a prequel later on but that doesn't mean that anime only people (like me) who have only watched F/Z and UBW won't compare them both. Its natural to do that in a franchise and F/Z set a high standard for many. Just think about it. We go from dark battle royale with ensemble cast full of adults (refreshing in anime, no matter how you see it) fighting each other to a Highschool/SOL anime with a boring naive hero and a tsundere as the only leads... You don't get it. And you're exactly the problem. This is why most of the time I think Zero was a mistake. "Cast full of adults"? Lmao what adults? Oh the part about killing each other for a corrupted goblet that burned down an entire city because they were retarded enough? Every adult is freaking dumb there. The only logical character I saw was Waver that actually acted as a real human being and not a merciless machine. I don't really see the SOL problem. They're teens that attend to SCHOOL, trying to stop what ( ironically the 'adults' wanted ) burned down an entire city, and trying to stop a weirdo who wants to burn the entire world to see who survives ( and many others that could do bad for the entire world ) . Lets not forget that the MC has to freaking fight with the result of his ideals being destroyed by the reality of the world. How is that not deep? How is that stupid? Just because the source was half introduced as an erogue ( not really harem because he chooses only one girl per route ) is crap already? Ok. |
Veromaye said: Aardwolf94 said: Of course its not the main part (the VN is) since it was only written as a prequel later on but that doesn't mean that anime only people (like me) who have only watched F/Z and UBW won't compare them both. Its natural to do that in a franchise and F/Z set a high standard for many. Just think about it. We go from dark battle royale with ensemble cast full of adults (refreshing in anime, no matter how you see it) fighting each other to a Highschool/SOL anime with a boring naive hero and a tsundere as the only leads... You don't get it. And you're exactly the problem. This is why most of the time I think Zero was a mistake. "Cast full of adults"? Lmao what adults? Oh the part about killing each other for a corrupted goblet that burned down an entire city because they were retarded enough? Every adult is freaking dumb there. The only logical character I saw was Waver that actually acted as a real human being and not a merciless machine. I don't really see the SOL problem. They're teens that attend to SCHOOL, trying to stop what ( ironically the 'adults' wanted ) burned down an entire city, and trying to stop a weirdo who wants to burn the entire world to see who survives ( and many others that could do bad for the entire world ) . Lets not forget that the MC has to freaking fight with the result of his ideals being destroyed by the reality of the world. How is that not deep? How is that stupid? Just because the source was half introduced as an erogue ( not really harem because he chooses only one girl per route ) is crap already? Ok. They are flawed and interesting characters, not perfect. Isn't that how F/SN fans always praise Shirou (he is supposed to be dumb & naive etc.). Fact is that F/Z's cast is still full of adults (just because they make mistakes doesn't mean they aren't adults), something you dont see often in anime. And them killing each other for the grail was entertaining as hell..F/Z actually used the HGW premise well and gave us a proper battle royale. Well that they are teens is already boring, 99% of anime have them as main characters. But of course they could have been interesting, they weren't though. They go to school while a damm war is going on and they go out on dates etc. too basically chill like its nothing. It kills the whole supposed war atmosphere. And Shirou defeating an over the top villian (talk about how Gilgamesh lost all his charm..same for Kirei) who wants to destroy the world...not very compelling and already been done a hundred times. So you basically proved my point, even the story was more cliche than F/Z's but apparently since they were nice people and accomplished a lot its a deep anime? The part about the ideals was solid, especially since it gave Archer proper focus and he was the only character I cared about. But Shirou was still dumb and stubborn in the whole conflict. And no F/Z wasn't a mistake, its the only good thing to come out of the whole franchise lol. Of course F/SN think that though since people wouldn't bash the latter so much if it wasn't for the high expectations they had because of F/Z. I think its obivous that you don't get it. I mean a pretty well received prequel came out a few years ago and then UBW the "sequel" (its not but for anime only fans it is) came after that...surprise surprise people will compare both of them. How dare they do that.. I dont care for the source material, the anime was crap because of the awful characters and boring dragged out story. That's it. |
Aardwolf94Oct 29, 2017 4:27 PM
Aardwolf94 said: They are flawed and interesting characters, not perfect. Isn't that how F/SN fans always praise Shirou (he is supposed to be dumb & naive etc.). Fact is that F/Z's cast is still full of adults, something you dont see often in anime. And them killing each other for the grail was entertaining as hell..F/Z actually used the HGW premise well and gave us a proper battle royale. Well that they are teens is already boring, 99% of anime have them as main characters. They go to school while a damm war is going on and they go out on dates etc. too basically chill like its nothing. It kills the whole supposed war atmosphere. And Shirou defeating an over the top villian (talk about how Gilgamesh lost all his charm..same for Kirei) who wants to destroy the world...not very compelling and already been done a hundred times. So you basically proved my point, even the story was more cliche than F/Z's. The part about the ideals was solid, especially since it gave Archer proper focus and he was the only character I cared about. But Shirou was still dumb and stubborn in the whole conflict. And no F/Z wasn't a mistake, its the only good thing to come out of the whole franchise lol. Of course F/SN think that though since people wouldn't bash the latter so much if it wasn't for the high expectations they had because of F/Z. I think its obivous that you don't get it. I mean a pretty well received prequel came out a few years ago and then UBW the "sequel" came after that...surprise surprise people will compare both of them. How dare they do that, they shouldn't be compared! Shirou defeating an over top villian. Again, how you can criticize this while having DBZ with a 10? At least Shirou defeating Gilgamesh is completely logical considering Gil is a freaking egocentric that didn't even thought Shirou would be a match for him. He could just destroy Shirou with EA but he was so confident that he tried to use it as a last resource when he was cornered like a baby. This is a characterization for Gilgamesh and trying to say it was stupid is rejecting the whole character. As stated by Shirou, Gil is NOT a warrior, he's a King. Now, lets not forget that UBW is a natural counter for GoB. But yeah even if 10 people try to explain everything, people like you won't understand and will still use stuffs like "its the only good thing to come out of the whole franchise" to glorify F/Z, beside using the natural "Bloody and """""""""ADULT""""""""" card. By the way, I won't be replying anymore. I think it's ok if people like others stuff and don't like or think any other is bad. But is just childish to try and act as a "critic" using arguments like "I liked Zero and if this is not like Zero is crap". Specially considering saying 'full gore action time' is 'adult' 'deep' and without doubt makes an anime perfect or better than any other. I just made this topic to see different opinions hoping to see intelligent explanations for my doubt ( that has nothing to do with preferences ) |
Veromaye said: Aardwolf94 said: They are flawed and interesting characters, not perfect. Isn't that how F/SN fans always praise Shirou (he is supposed to be dumb & naive etc.). Fact is that F/Z's cast is still full of adults, something you dont see often in anime. And them killing each other for the grail was entertaining as hell..F/Z actually used the HGW premise well and gave us a proper battle royale. Well that they are teens is already boring, 99% of anime have them as main characters. They go to school while a damm war is going on and they go out on dates etc. too basically chill like its nothing. It kills the whole supposed war atmosphere. And Shirou defeating an over the top villian (talk about how Gilgamesh lost all his charm..same for Kirei) who wants to destroy the world...not very compelling and already been done a hundred times. So you basically proved my point, even the story was more cliche than F/Z's. The part about the ideals was solid, especially since it gave Archer proper focus and he was the only character I cared about. But Shirou was still dumb and stubborn in the whole conflict. And no F/Z wasn't a mistake, its the only good thing to come out of the whole franchise lol. Of course F/SN think that though since people wouldn't bash the latter so much if it wasn't for the high expectations they had because of F/Z. I think its obivous that you don't get it. I mean a pretty well received prequel came out a few years ago and then UBW the "sequel" came after that...surprise surprise people will compare both of them. How dare they do that, they shouldn't be compared! Shirou defeating an over top villian. Again, how you can criticize this while having DBZ with a 10? At least Shirou defeating Gilgamesh is completely logical considering Gil is a freaking egocentric that didn't even thought Shirou would be a match for him. He could just destroy Shirou with EA but he was so confident that he tried to use it as a last resource when he was cornered like a baby. This is a characterization for Gilgamesh and trying to say it was stupid is rejecting the whole character. As stated by Shirou, Gil is NOT a warrior, he's a King. Now, lets not forget that UBW is a natural counter for GoB. But yeah even if 10 people try to explain everything, people like you won't understand and will still use stuffs like "its the only good thing to come out of the whole franchise" to glorify F/Z, beside using the natural "Bloody and """""""""ADULT""""""""" card. By the way, I won't be replying anymore. I think it's ok if people like others stuff and don't like or think any other is bad. But is just childish to try and act as a "critic" using arguments like "I liked Zero and if this is not like Zero is crap". Specially considering saying 'full gore action time' is 'adult' 'deep' and without doubt makes an anime perfect or better than any other. I just made this topic to see different opinions hoping to see intelligent explanations for my doubt ( that has nothing to do with preferences ) And I never said that DBZ was a deep anime (like you are saying F/SN is), no its a pretty silly over the top Shounen that I enjoy because of nostalgia and the fun characters. Thats it. And just because it used that doesn't mean I would enjoy it being used in the continuation of F/Z's story or say Berserk. Every anime/manga has its own appeal. Sounds like a bullshit excuse for me and F/SN UBW is full of it. Like how often the villians could have killed Shirou (like Gil in the villa) but they don't and there is always some half assed excuse that fans like to bring. The point is that it didn't feel earned at all, Shirou who barely could handle himself at the beginning is suddenly capable enough to defeat Gilgamesh who acts extra dumb..screw that. Doesn't help that these "explanations" are weak as hell. Who is acting like a critic? I'm giving my opinion and F/SN UBW would still not be a good anime even without watching F/Z. The MC is an obnoxious shit, the love interest is a boring cliche (awful forced romance), the whole story is a dragged out mess and full of shitty SOL and highschool bs & it doesn't make use of its interesting premise etc. It would be average at best but since F/Z set such a high standard its complete crap |
Aardwolf94Oct 29, 2017 4:43 PM
xeco said: It does not matter how many arguments they have , the only canon is Fate Stay Night, Fate Zero was never , is not and is never going to be canon , its also not the best of the fates , people only like it because is more dark so only people that like to think that they are so manly and so cool say those things , just fanboys, Fate Zero has one of the worst anime fandoms that exist and also the most delusionals because they think its canon lol why? i haven't seen any fate related anime yet but all the fans told me that it's a cannon story because nasu supervised and approved the project. |
Cyborg_Icarus29 said: why? i haven't seen any fate related anime yet but all the fans told me that it's a cannon story because nasu supervised and approved the project. Every single Fate series is canon, has always been canon and will always be canon, regardless of opinions. People just love to say "my favourite Fate is canon and the other ones are not" for no actual reason. |
|
LeloTheUnamused said: Cyborg_Icarus29 said: why? i haven't seen any fate related anime yet but all the fans told me that it's a cannon story because nasu supervised and approved the project. Every single Fate series is canon, has always been canon and will always be canon, regardless of opinions. People just love to say "my favourite Fate is canon and the other ones are not" for no actual reason. So he's just acting like a fanboy. Gotcha. |
Cyborg_Icarus29 said: LeloTheUnamused said: Every single Fate series is canon, has always been canon and will always be canon, regardless of opinions. People just love to say "my favourite Fate is canon and the other ones are not" for no actual reason. So he's just acting like a fanboy. Gotcha. More specifically, the Fate series work on a multiverse scale, and there is a Sorcery that can traverse the different dimensions. Obviously, it doesn't mean they take place within the same world/timeline, for example Fate/Apocrypha and Prisma Ilya are obviously not compatible with the main Fate/Stay Night storyline. Even Fate/Stay Night itself has three separate timelines (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel). While Fate/Zero is written to shed light on events that happened 10 years ago, we cannot determine for sure if everything in Zero happened during all three of these Fate timelines, or if there are differences in each. |
| I wonder if we are going to have the same shit when Fate/Extra comes out. It always happens. |
neku963 said: I wonder if we are going to have the same shit when Fate/Extra comes out. It always happens. Don't doubt it my friend. This is the circle of life. |
| Zero is the real series because it's realistic. It's even called 'Zero' because it refines Fate to its core precepts. Apocrypha isn't a real series because it's unrealistic and plain bad. It's called 'Apocrypha' because it's fake fate. I hope this makes it easy to understand. |
| With that logic then Fate/Strange fake is bad and fake because it doesn't have Zero but it has "fake" on the title. Oh my god. Best explanation ever, thank you kind sir. |
Ckan said: Zero is the real series because it's realistic. It's even called 'Zero' because it refines Fate to its core precepts. Apocrypha isn't a real series because it's unrealistic and plain bad. It's called 'Apocrypha' because it's fake fate. I hope this makes it easy to understand. Zero literally equates to "false" in programming... |
| That was the funniest thing I ever read in any Fate discussion ever, thank you. |
|
| Fate/Zero is canon, though. It has a better score than UBW... and it's more popular than UBW (at least on MAL).. so.. |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: Fate/Zero is canon, though. It has a better score than UBW... and it's more popular than UBW (at least on MAL).. so.. Why people keep bringing UBW here LOL? And what score has to do with my question? Scoring on MAL can't be taken serious if a bunch of people can randomly put Pingu in the City on top anime ( Not that it can be that good by the way, this is just another topic ) because memes. My question is regardless people using Fate/Zero to criticize other Fate works. You can't use Zero to judge UBW, SN or HF even Apo. Why? Because Zero is completely different from them. If people use Zero as a method of criticizing and making a review. The result is this: >Zero is like this, X is not like that, so you won't like it or is not good because I liked more Zero. This being a personal opinion that should not be mainly used to make a review. Literally almost all the reviews and comments I've read are that "For me Zero was better so others are crap" What is that logic? Again as stated thousands of times. This doesn't mean that you, or any other can't think or can't be right about Zero being better than other Fate works. I would agree using Zero as a resource for criticizing if other fates were BASED on it, or Zero with other characters. But is not like that. Btw popularity=/=quality If we take that seriously this means Sword art Online saved anime and it's better than Fate Zero and any other. |
VeromayeOct 30, 2017 3:33 PM
Veromaye said: Zelev said: Fate/Zero is canon, though. It has a better score than UBW... and it's more popular than UBW (at least on MAL).. so.. Why people keep bringing UBW here LOL? And what score has to do with my question? Scoring on MAL can't be taken serious if a bunch of people can randomly put Pingu in the City on top anime ( Not that it can be that good by the way, this is just another topic ) because memes. My question is regardless people using Fate/Zero to criticize other Fate works. You can't use Zero to judge UBW, SN or HF even Apo. Why? Because Zero is completely different from them. If people use Zero as a method of criticizing and making a review. The result is this: >Zero is like this, X is not like that, so you won't like it or is not good because I liked more Zero. This being a personal opinion that should not be mainly used to make a review. Literally almost all the reviews and comments I've read are that "For me Zero was better so others are crap" What is that logic? Again as stated thousands of times. This doesn't mean that you, or any other can't think or can't be right about Zero being better than other Fate works. I would agree using Zero as a resource for criticizing if other fates were BASED on it, or Zero with other characters. But is not like that. Btw popularity=/=quality If we take that seriously this means Sword art Online saved anime and it's better than Fate Zero and any other. So if F/SN UBW had a higher ranking here would you still say the same? Of course the rankings here are a bit iffy but its pretty clear that F/Z is overall more liked in the western anime community. Be it here or on r/anime or other anime forums. And popularity=/=quality is true, F/SN is still more popular. No doubt about that. |
Aardwolf94 said: So if F/SN UBW had a higher ranking here would you still say the same? Of course the rankings here are a bit iffy but its pretty clear that F/Z is overall more liked in the western anime community. Be it here or on r/anime or other anime forums. And popularity=/=quality is true, F/SN is still more popular. No doubt about that. Yes I would. Because the main point of his comment was "If it's in the ranking or more popular is automatically better". Which is not true all the time. The whole point of my topic is to understand different perspectives of why people use Zero as a way of criticizing other Fate works, regardless if they're right or wrong doing it. IMO is not right to do it and I already explained why. That's it. If F/Z is better than other Fate works is something that can't be expressed without using a real perspective of the elements of each work taking out your personal view. Maybe I'm wrong but I see way worse how people bash something while using cards like "not adult"... |
Veromaye said: Zelev said: Fate/Zero is canon, though. It has a better score than UBW... and it's more popular than UBW (at least on MAL).. so.. Why people keep bringing UBW here LOL? And what score has to do with my question? Scoring on MAL can't be taken serious if a bunch of people can randomly put Pingu in the City on top anime ( Not that it can be that good by the way, this is just another topic ) because memes. My question is regardless people using Fate/Zero to criticize other Fate works. You can't use Zero to judge UBW, SN or HF even Apo. Why? Because Zero is completely different from them. If people use Zero as a method of criticizing and making a review. The result is this: >Zero is like this, X is not like that, so you won't like it or is not good because I liked more Zero. This being a personal opinion that should not be mainly used to make a review. Literally almost all the reviews and comments I've read are that "For me Zero was better so others are crap" What is that logic? Again as stated thousands of times. This doesn't mean that you, or any other can't think or can't be right about Zero being better than other Fate works. I would agree using Zero as a resource for criticizing if other fates were BASED on it, or Zero with other characters. But is not like that. Btw popularity=/=quality If we take that seriously this means Sword art Online saved anime and it's better than Fate Zero and any other. What do you mean why am I bringing UBW up? Better yet, answer this: What is the main core of the Fate series. I don't care if you think scores aren't relevant - I agree they aren't - but my point is that in general everyone likes Fate/Zero better than other Fate series. You literally cannot argue against that (at least on MAL). People can judge and do whatever they want. I don't see why you think you make the rules lol? People are allowed to compare a show that is related to another one. I mean... common sense. Objectively speaking, all of the Fate series had writing issues, but Zero had the least. Again, I never said popularity = quality. What I'm saying is that the masses prefer Zero. [/thread] |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: What do you mean why am I bringing UBW up? Better yet, answer this: What is the main core of the Fate series. I don't care if you think scores aren't relevant - I agree they aren't - but my point is that in general everyone likes Fate/Zero better than other Fate series. You literally cannot argue against that (at least on MAL). People can judge and do whatever they want. I don't see why you think you make the rules lol? People are allowed to compare a show that is related to another one. I mean... common sense. Objectively speaking, all of the Fate series had writing issues, but Zero had the least. Again, I never said popularity = quality. What I'm saying is that the masses prefer Zero. I make the rules? Not at all. I never said that's the way it should be done. People can like whatever they want and can hate at the same time. I only explained my perspective of how I see this bullshit about "Since I liked this more this means this other thing is trash". And it's probably not only me that sees that extremely childish. My exact words in my previous reply were "This being a personal opinion that should not be mainly used to make a review" "REVIEW" "PERSONAL OPINION", not "I make the rules and I think you're wrong". I don't have to explain this. The main core of the series? What I believe or what is the reality? I believe it's the three main fate routes. Everything besides that for me is prequel, sequel, alternative version, TL etc. This not meaning other works are non canon or vice versa. |
Veromaye said: Zelev said: What do you mean why am I bringing UBW up? Better yet, answer this: What is the main core of the Fate series. I don't care if you think scores aren't relevant - I agree they aren't - but my point is that in general everyone likes Fate/Zero better than other Fate series. You literally cannot argue against that (at least on MAL). People can judge and do whatever they want. I don't see why you think you make the rules lol? People are allowed to compare a show that is related to another one. I mean... common sense. Objectively speaking, all of the Fate series had writing issues, but Zero had the least. Again, I never said popularity = quality. What I'm saying is that the masses prefer Zero. I make the rules? Not at all. I never said that's the way it should be done. People can like whatever they want and can hate at the same time. I only explained my perspective of how I see this bullshit about "Since I liked this more this means this other thing is trash". And it's probably not only me that sees that extremely childish. My exact words in my previous reply were "This being a personal opinion that should not be mainly used to make a review" "REVIEW" "PERSONAL OPINION", not "I make the rules and I think you're wrong". I don't have to explain this. The main core of the series? What I believe or what is the reality? I believe it's the three main fate routes. Everything besides that for me is prequel, sequel, alternative version, TL etc. This not meaning other works are non canon or vice versa. You're literally saying someone else's logic doesn't make sense by implementing your own logic. Hence, again, why do you think your logic is better? You don't make the rules. Your logic is just an opinion and just as valid as anyone else's, even if you think they're wrong. This is a pointless thread where you just rant. Lol... I like Fate/Zero. I think Fate/Apocrypha is trash. But I did not come to that conclusion merely because "Zero is better, therefore Apo is trash." No... Apo is trash because of other reasons. The fight scenes suck, for one. The characters are dull, with the exception of about three or four characters at best. The quality is... average. But hey, at least it's got the music going for it. Fate/Zero is canon. It's a part of that "core." Therefore, there will be comparisons. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: You're literally saying someone else's logic doesn't make sense by implementing your own logic. Hence, again, why do you think your logic is better? You don't make the rules. Your logic is just an opinion and just as valid as anyone else's, even if you think they're wrong. This is a pointless thread where you just rant. Lol... I like Fate/Zero. I think Fate/Apocrypha is trash. But I did not come to that conclusion merely because "Zero is better, therefore Apo is trash." No... Apo is trash because of other reasons. The fight scenes suck, for one. The characters are dull, with the exception of about three or four characters at best. The quality is... average. But hey, at least it's got the music going for it. Fate/Zero is canon. It's a part of that "core." Therefore, there will be comparisons. Uhm lets see. So since when it's ok to make a review mainly based in your whole opinion of some other work but not in the flaws of the work you're criticizing? regardless if they're connected or not. THAT'S MY POINT. I'm NOT saying YOU or ANY ONE ELSE - C A N T - have different opinions and like one work and dislike other. Neither I'm saying that people C A N T use this method of criticizing a work. IS MY PERSONAL OPINION Hence I'm against it. And NOT because I'm against it, means YOU CAN'T DO IT HOWEVER YOU LIKE. Because if I make a review saying that UBW or any other main fate route is BETTER than Zero because is NOT like Zero, FOR ME without doubt is RETARDED and IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUS. and I NEVER SAID THAT ZERO IS NOT CANON Literally my LAST sentence was "This NOT meaning all other works beside main fate routes are NON canon" Are you even reading LOL. |
Veromaye said: Zelev said: You're literally saying someone else's logic doesn't make sense by implementing your own logic. Hence, again, why do you think your logic is better? You don't make the rules. Your logic is just an opinion and just as valid as anyone else's, even if you think they're wrong. This is a pointless thread where you just rant. Lol... I like Fate/Zero. I think Fate/Apocrypha is trash. But I did not come to that conclusion merely because "Zero is better, therefore Apo is trash." No... Apo is trash because of other reasons. The fight scenes suck, for one. The characters are dull, with the exception of about three or four characters at best. The quality is... average. But hey, at least it's got the music going for it. Fate/Zero is canon. It's a part of that "core." Therefore, there will be comparisons. Uhm lets see. So since when it's ok to make a review mainly based in your whole opinion of some other work but not in the flaws of the work you're criticizing? regardless if they're connected or not. THAT'S MY POINT. I'm NOT saying YOU or ANY ONE ELSE - C A N T - have different opinions and like one work and dislike other. Neither I'm saying that people C A N T use this method of criticizing a work. IS MY PERSONAL OPINION Hence I'm against it. And NOT because I'm against it, means YOU CAN'T DO IT HOWEVER YOU LIKE. Because if I make a review saying that UBW or any other main fate route is BETTER than Zero because is NOT like Zero, FOR ME without doubt is RETARDED and IT SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN SERIOUS. and I NEVER SAID THAT ZERO IS NOT CANON Literally my LAST sentence was "This NOT meaning all other works beside main fate routes are NON canon" Are you even reading LOL. Be an adult and learn to ignore the review? All you're doing with this thread is giving attention to those reviews. That's hypocritical, really. Just because you make a thread about it doesn't mean someone won't do it again lmao. Like I said, this thread is merely a rant and is pointless. Yes, I'm reading. I'm just throwing your words back at you, like this: If you know Fate/Zero is canon, then why do you act as if though this is a phenomenon? People are going to compare the original to the new work. That is not new information, so stop acting like it is. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: Be an adult and learn to ignore the review? All you're doing with this thread is giving attention to those reviews. That's hypocritical, really. Just because you make a thread about it doesn't mean someone won't do it again lmao. Like I said, this thread is merely a rant and is pointless. Yes, I'm reading. I'm just throwing your words back at you, like this: If you know Fate/Zero is canon, then why do you act as if though this is a phenomenon? People are going to compare the original to the new work. That is not new information, so stop acting like it is. Be an adult and try to understand the point of my whole thread. I never stated at my first post what people can't or can do. I was asking a question and I'm reading opinions regardless of mine. Not judging not accepting or rejecting. I'm not asking anybody to stop doing what they're doing. And I'm not expecting anyone who is doing that kind of reviews to stop. I don't really understand why something being canon or not has to do anything with this, seriously I'm tired of seeing that stupid word. Guess what, for what purpose do you think I made this post? huh. It was obviously to understand why what I stated happens. That's it. Jeez |
| @Veromaye You literally used the word retarded because you didn't agree with something, but you get annoyed with a word like "canon." You do realize how dumb that is, yes? You're the one that's childish here. Can you even simply state what the point of your thread was other than to give your opinion? You literally answered your own question in your original post. I don't see why you bother playing dumb. is this somehow fanboyism because they got so attached to the "dark" and "deep" elements of the writing? You're using quotes, so obviously you've encountered this before with someone. Or am I missing something else? This is where you play dumb. I mean, yes I did enjoyed Zero and consider it a great Fate work. But I consider it an extension of the fate series and not the main core of it. This is where you're wrong. It's canon, therefore it's official.. therefore it's included with the "main core" that you speak of. Just because you consider it to be not part of the "main core" doesn't make it so. I'm making this thread because it confuses me every time I see someone criticizing Apocrypha using Zero as a main source of comparison and not FSN/UBW? Why would anyone bother comparing them if, generally speaking, everyone prefers Zero to FSN and UBW? It's logical to compare Zero with Apo because it is superior in the eyes of many. For example, you don't compare trash with more trash - that doesn't really accomplish anything - because there are more similarities than differences. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: This is where you're wrong. It's canon, therefore it's official.. therefore it's included with the "main core" that you speak of. Just because you consider it to be not part of the "main core" doesn't make it so. Why would anyone bother comparing them if, generally speaking, everyone prefers Zero to FSN and UBW? It's logical to compare Zero with Apo because it is superior in the eyes of many. For example, you don't compare trash with more trash - that doesn't really accomplish anything - because there are more similarities than differences. Holy mother are you that slow sir? When I said "Or is this somehow fanboyism because they got so attached to the "dark" and "deep" elements of the writing?" it's because it's a common thing happening on any fandom that has some work different than a, how to put it, 'non nihilistic', big example is the pokemon fanbase who hates the main anime but as soon as other animation without the main anime mc got released they were glorifying that kind of work because of looking "adult" and "mature". When I said that is because I might be wrong about thinking it. Because unlike you're trying to put me, I did liked a lot Zero, I do recognize how good it is and I don't reject any element but I DON'T get to the point of glorifying them or get attached. This is why I also said "Am I missing something?" Because I was not trying to just use my perspective to make a final conclusion ( unlike you've been doing all this time with me even thou I explained my position here ) And again and again and again, you're reading between lines or something, good grief. As I mentioned about 30 times here, I'm not saying that Zero is not canon, and being canon doesn't mean FOR ME a free pass to criticize other works ( specially the principal fate routes ) using Zero as a main sketch, perspective, base, why? Because they're not alike and I can't use elements from one work that is not equal to the one I'm criticizing. AGAIN CLARIFYING THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. And over and over again I tell you. This topic was created to understand: 1. Why people use Zero as a main resource for criticizing other Fate works if FOR ME is not the CORE itself. 2. How Zero was classified to others and the franchise itself. 3. How LOGICAL people use Zero as a resource for criticizing. But the only thing you've been doing since replying is telling me that Zero is canon, like being canon or cannon or non canon is relevant to this topic. If people is saying that Zero is not canon that's their opinion and has nothing to do with mine or what I'm looking here. |
Veromaye said: Zelev said: This is where you're wrong. It's canon, therefore it's official.. therefore it's included with the "main core" that you speak of. Just because you consider it to be not part of the "main core" doesn't make it so. Why would anyone bother comparing them if, generally speaking, everyone prefers Zero to FSN and UBW? It's logical to compare Zero with Apo because it is superior in the eyes of many. For example, you don't compare trash with more trash - that doesn't really accomplish anything - because there are more similarities than differences. Holy mother are you that slow sir? When I said "Or is this somehow fanboyism because they got so attached to the "dark" and "deep" elements of the writing?" it's because it's a common thing happening on any fandom that has some work different than a, how to put it, 'non nihilistic', big example is the pokemon fanbase who hates the main anime but as soon as other animation without the main anime mc got released they were glorifying that kind of work because of looking "adult" and "mature". When I said that is because I might be wrong about thinking it. Because unlike you're trying to put me, I did liked a lot Zero, I do recognize how good it is and I don't reject any element but I DON'T get to the point of glorifying them or get attached. This is why I also said "Am I missing something?" Because I was not trying to just use my perspective to make a final conclusion ( unlike you've been doing all this time with me even thou I explained my position here ) And again and again and again, you're reading between lines or something, good grief. As I mentioned about 30 times here, I'm not saying that Zero is not canon, and being canon doesn't mean FOR ME a free pass to criticize other works ( specially the principal fate routes ) using Zero as a main sketch, perspective, base, why? Because they're not alike and I can't use elements from one work that is not equal to the one I'm criticizing. AGAIN CLARIFYING THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. And over and over again I tell you. This topic was created to understand: 1. Why people use Zero as a main resource for criticizing other Fate works if FOR ME is not the CORE itself. 2. How Zero was classified to others and the franchise itself. 3. How LOGICAL people use Zero as a resource for criticizing. But the only thing you've been doing since replying is telling me that Zero is canon, like being canon or cannon or non canon is relevant to this topic. If people is saying that Zero is not canon that's their opinion and has nothing to do with mine or what I'm looking here. Loool, you substitute the word "retard" for "slow" now. Nice backpedal. Really shows your character, tbh. What's wrong with fanboyism? You're literally doing the same shit right now considering it's in your favorites. It's not like your innocent here. All you're doing is complaining about people's reasons for not liking something/liking something. How can you say that you don't get attached when UBW is in your favorites? That's not a very convincing argument you have there... You're biased like the rest of mankind. Not a big deal. Like I said, Fate/Zero is a part of the "main core" and is one of the basis of the spin-offs/alternative settings. It's not hard to understand. That is why people compare Zero to others. I've literally answered your question multiple times, but you keep saying that certain reasons aren't valid because you think they're "retarded." I already told you.. 1) It's a part of the core whether you like it or not. It's a fact, not an opinion. Just like the sky is blue. 2) You just want people to classify it so you can say how retarded their logic is. 3) This is anime. People have opinions. Logic doesn't necessarily need to be present when it comes to opinions. Zero is canon, therefore it's part of the "main core." It's relevant. Maybe you're the slow one? The sky is blue. Zero is canon. Fact. Not opinion. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Loool, you substitute the word "retard" for "slow" now. Nice backpedal. Really shows your character, tbh. Sorry @Zelev but when did I used the word "retard" to speak about you? The only moment I used the word retard was when I was talking about how IS retarded to criticize something like this 'I like this so if X is not like what I like is bad' If you took it personal that's not my problem. What's wrong with fanboyism? You're literally doing the same shit right now considering it's in your favorites. It's not like your innocent here. All you're doing is complaining about people's reasons for not liking something/liking something. How can you say that you don't get attached when UBW is in your favorites? That's not a very convincing argument you have there... You're biased like the rest of mankind. Not a big deal. First of all, I'm not attached to UBW, UBW is my favorite so far and that's it, I can enjoy it as I can enjoy Zero but I like more UBW because it has more elements that I love. Like I said before it doesn't mean nothing negative to me that the majority of users of MAL prefer Zero than UBW. Please stop trying to use my preferences to make it look like I'm making this a personal discussion. Like I said, Fate/Zero is a part of the "main core" and is one of the basis of the spin-offs/alternative settings. It's not hard to understand. That is why people compare Zero to others. I've literally answered your question multiple times, but you keep saying that certain reasons aren't valid because you think they're "retarded." No, that's not what I said. I said that comparing a work that is clearly different from other is wrong IN MY OPINION. Because it has different bases and it's like trying to criticize an orange because it doesn't taste like an apple. ?????? Hence why I think opinions like 'HEY THIS IS BAD BECAUSE IS NOT LIKE X' are retarded. I already told you.. 1) It's a part of the core whether you like it or not. It's a fact, not an opinion. Just like the sky is blue. 2) You just want people to classify it so you can say how retarded their logic is. 3) This is anime. People have opinions. Logic doesn't necessarily need to be present when it comes to opinions. Zero is canon, therefore it's part of the "main core." It's relevant. Maybe you're the slow one? The sky is blue. Zero is canon. Fact. Not opinion. And here we are again. Sir, do you have some trauma left from a Zero discussion or something? Because it seems that it triggers you to read someone saying that Zero isn't canon, topic that is not spoken here. Thing that I haven't mentioned at all. Because regardless if Zero is canon, is not what I'm trying to ask. Being the core has nothing to do with being canon. Being the core for me is being the main work and base of a serie so others can be molded from it. And Zero is canon! Congratulations! Thanks for your opinion sir. |
| I love how Zelev completely missed the point multiple times but just kept going on for the heck of it lol |
|
Veromaye said: Loool, you substitute the word "retard" for "slow" now. Nice backpedal. Really shows your character, tbh. Sorry @Zelev but when did I used the word "retard" to speak about you? The only moment I used the word retard was when I was talking about how IS retarded to criticize something like this 'I like this so if X is not like what I like is bad' If you took it personal that's not my problem. What's wrong with fanboyism? You're literally doing the same shit right now considering it's in your favorites. It's not like your innocent here. All you're doing is complaining about people's reasons for not liking something/liking something. How can you say that you don't get attached when UBW is in your favorites? That's not a very convincing argument you have there... You're biased like the rest of mankind. Not a big deal. First of all, I'm not attached to UBW, UBW is my favorite so far and that's it, I can enjoy it as I can enjoy Zero but I like more UBW because it has more elements that I love. Like I said before it doesn't mean nothing negative to me that the majority of users of MAL prefer Zero than UBW. Please stop trying to use my preferences to make it look like I'm making this a personal discussion. Like I said, Fate/Zero is a part of the "main core" and is one of the basis of the spin-offs/alternative settings. It's not hard to understand. That is why people compare Zero to others. I've literally answered your question multiple times, but you keep saying that certain reasons aren't valid because you think they're "retarded." No, that's not what I said. I said that comparing a work that is clearly different from other is wrong IN MY OPINION. Because it has different bases and it's like trying to criticize an orange because it doesn't taste like an apple. ?????? Hence why I think opinions like 'HEY THIS IS BAD BECAUSE IS NOT LIKE X' are retarded. I already told you.. 1) It's a part of the core whether you like it or not. It's a fact, not an opinion. Just like the sky is blue. 2) You just want people to classify it so you can say how retarded their logic is. 3) This is anime. People have opinions. Logic doesn't necessarily need to be present when it comes to opinions. Zero is canon, therefore it's part of the "main core." It's relevant. Maybe you're the slow one? The sky is blue. Zero is canon. Fact. Not opinion. And here we are again. Sir, do you have some trauma left from a Zero discussion or something? Because it seems that it triggers you to read someone saying that Zero isn't canon, topic that is not spoken here. Thing that I haven't mentioned at all. Because regardless if Zero is canon, is not what I'm trying to ask. Being the core has nothing to do with being canon. Being the core for me is being the main work and base of a serie so others can be molded from it. And Zero is canon! Congratulations! Thanks for your opinion sir. Where did I say you called me retarded? I said you called other peoples' logic retarded. More than once, actually. Me, on the other hand, you called slow. Not that you're morally better for it either way. It obviously is a personal discussion if you call other peoples' logic retarded. Or can you honestly sit there and tell me the point of calling other peoples' logic retarded is to promote discussion? Lmao. You go on and on about opinions, therefore it can be personal. Also, you literally just finished saying, "If you took it personal that's not my problem." In other words, you literally admitted it can get personal. So where is your logic in that? Well guess what? Fate/Zero is compared with other Fate series that have the holy grail as the reward. That's pretty damn similar to me. Anyone can see that either series (like Apo) has fighting, a person's wish on the grail, alliances, betrayal, etc. So, please tell me how they are so "clearly different" because your logic makes no sense there. It's literally the same concept. I can understand if you don't agree with "Hey this is bad because it's not like X." However, your reasoning for it is completely off the mark. What do you mean they have different bases? Like fan bases? That's not even true, lol. It's usually the same fans. Or were you referring to "basis"? Specify. How old are you? Like 25, allegedly? That's embarrassing if you conduct yourself like this irl. Now you're condescending towards me because I don't agree with you. Something a child would do, but I guess that's very fitting for you. "Being the core has nothing to do with being canon." Says who? You literally just said it was your opinion that Zero was canon or not. Now you're trying to say it's a statement. Your question was answered a long time ago.. by you. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
LeloTheUnamused said: I love how Zelev completely missed the point multiple times but just kept going on for the heck of it lol OP answered her own question in the original post. All I did was point out her attention seeking. Maybe you missed the point :) |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Zelev said: Where did I say you called me retarded? I said you called other peoples' logic retarded. More than once, actually. Me, on the other hand, you called slow. Not that you're morally better for it either way. It obviously is a personal discussion if you call other peoples' logic retarded. Or can you honestly sit there and tell me the point of calling other peoples' logic retarded is to promote discussion? Lmao. You go on and on about opinions, therefore it can be personal. Also, you literally just finished saying, "If you took it personal that's not my problem." In other words, you literally admitted it can get personal. So where is your logic in that? Well guess what? Fate/Zero is compared with other Fate series that have the holy grail as the reward. That's pretty damn similar to me. Anyone can see that either series (like Apo) has fighting, a person's wish on the grail, alliances, betrayal, etc. So, please tell me how they are so "clearly different" because your logic makes no sense there. It's literally the same concept. I can understand if you don't agree with "Hey this is bad because it's not like X." However, your reasoning for it is completely off the mark. What do you mean they have different bases? Like fan bases? That's not even true, lol. It's usually the same fans. Or were you referring to "basis"? Specify. How old are you? Like 25, allegedly? That's embarrassing if you conduct yourself like this irl. Now you're condescending towards me because I don't agree with you. Something a child would do, but I guess that's very fitting for you. "Being the core has nothing to do with being canon." Says who? You literally just said it was your opinion that Zero was canon or not. Now you're trying to say it's a statement. Your question was answered a long time ago.. by you. I didn't called "retarded" anyone in specific. I consider retarded "THOSE" kind of opinions, which is totally understandable, for any freaking adult that works like a critic or makes reviews, no matter how 'valid' can be subjective opinions, it doesn't change the fact is dumb and can't be taken serious. Maybe I explained wrong but I highly doubt it considering that I've been explaining this whole thing for 12 hours while you're just understanding that somehow I said Zero is not canon, which I never did? Maybe you're just defending that kind of stuffs because you see yourself on that mirror? Otherwise I don't get this whole "you don't make the rules" "why do you care". If I never stated that people is not allowed to have opinions or make critics with Zero used as a base. I have no idea what you're talking about fan bases. I said that since for me ( this is not an universal right ) Zero is not the main core and when I say CORE I mean the main PLOT of FSN-UBW-HF that is NOT trying to obtain the grail for actually making a wish, but trying to STOP that something like Fuyuki getting burned again happen. Hence ZERO ( IN MY OPINION ) can't be taken as a core or MAIN RESOURCE for criticizing that part of OTHER work. That's what I've been trying to say and I never said anything about Zero NOT being part of the core that is the grail war or something. But people JUST focus on that part where "Master and servants kill themselves for a corrupted goblet" to criticize other works that don't fit this. That's like trying to criticize Zero because LACKING elements of SOL because FATE routes do have that element. That's stupid and that's what I'm trying to explain. I'm NOT saying that I'm fully right and Zero can't be used. Is only MY opinion and that's it. I'm sorry if my level of english is not that great or something. But I've been explaining this to you since you first replied. Also MY personal opinion has NOTHING to do with this thread. And yes, I did called you slow, I don't see how that's not morally correct, you are acting slow because the only thing you're noticing is not even written here. And no matter how many times I explain you, you just jump or miss my point and conclude something else. This is not relevant of not agreeing with you. I'm not here just to read your opinion, sorry if you thought that. I'm here to see different opinions because the fandom is not just composed of you. Otherwise I would just had deleted my board in the first reply no matter if they were right or wrong. I do thank you for your explanations but it seems you just took this too personal to the point of telling me my own conduct is embarrassing for a 25 years old. I noticed that your goal was to do this since you used the resource "UBW being my favorite". If you start attacking me personally because I don't agree with you then I have nothing else to discuss with you. |
VeromayeOct 31, 2017 7:35 AM
Aardwolf94 said: StardustReverie said: zero is aimed at teenagers who want to feel intelligent with it's highly applauded and philosophical themes of "lol what doe s it meanto be king lol", zombies and healthy doses of pointless gore, despair and darkness. also never forget the COOL brooding "adult" "protagonist(s)" with a dark past who the teenager can self insert into with their own similarly dark past. you can just see it in their eyes: "i will SO be kerry when i grow up!!!!!!!!!" More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! Thank you. You have summed it up on why I hate fsn. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
Zelev said: LeloTheUnamused said: I love how Zelev completely missed the point multiple times but just kept going on for the heck of it lol OP answered her own question in the original post. All I did was point out her attention seeking. Maybe you missed the point :) You are definitely right mate but F/SN fans don't like for people to compare them because they know F/Z is vastly superior and basically does everything better & uses its HGW premise well..overall it definitely makes sense to compare them. I mean its the prequel of the same series even for fuck's sake And tbh even without comparison F/SN would be lackluster and generic |
| @Veromaye I didn't called "retarded" anyone in specific. I consider retarded "THOSE" kind of opinions, which is totally understandable, for any freaking adult that works like a critic or makes reviews, no matter how 'valid' can be subjective opinions, it doesn't change the fact is dumb and can't be taken serious. Ironically, you claimed you made the thread to see intelligent responses for your doubts. And yet, you give unintelligible responses with words like retarded. What kind of critic says that, anyway? Not a very professional one. Maybe I explained wrong but I highly doubt it considering that I've been explaining this whole thing for 12 hours while you're just understanding that somehow I said Zero is not canon, which I never did? Lol? You just keep repeating the same thing over and over thinking that I'm the one that is missing something. Why don't you stop and evaluate? When I say that Zero is canon, I'm saying that it's officially part of the main storyline; that doesn't mean I think you're saying it isn't canon at all - even though you technically are. Maybe you're just defending that kind of stuffs because you see yourself on that mirror? Otherwise I don't get this whole "you don't make the rules" "why do you care". If I never stated that people is not allowed to have opinions or make critics with Zero used as a base. Oh look, another insult. :) How classy and very "intelligent" of you. What's hilarious is that you're actually the one that is defensive here. I already stated I think Apocrypha is trash for other reasons, so your argument of "X isn't like Y, therefore it's bad" literally has nothing to do with me. I even said it's fine if you think that way, but your entire reasoning behind that opinion is that Apocrypha and Zero aren't similar, which is blatantly false; they literally have the same concept, therefore they will get compared. Also, calling peoples' logic retarded doesn't exactly help your "intelligent" argument/thread here. No, you never said people aren't allowed to have opinions, but you just call their logic retarded based on your fallacy... lol. I have no idea what you're talking about fan bases. I said that since for me ( this is not an universal right ) Zero is not the main core and when I say CORE I mean the main PLOT of FSN-UBW-HF that is NOT trying to obtain the grail for actually making a wish, but trying to STOP that something like Fuyuki getting burned again happen. Hence ZERO ( IN MY OPINION ) can't be taken as a core or MAIN RESOURCE for criticizing that part of OTHER work. By your logic, everyone has their own interpretation of what the "core" is. So how can you say people aren't allowed to compare a Fate series with Zero? Do you not see how stupid that is? You literally claimed that Zero is not part of the "main core," but now you're saying it's an opinion. And if anyone disagrees with you on what the main core is, you say that's wrong logic. That's literally the thesis of your argument. That doesn't make sense. Like I said before, this thread is pointless. That's what I've been trying to say and I never said anything about Zero NOT being part of the core that is the grail war or something. ...You literally did. But people JUST focus on that part where "Master and servants kill themselves for a corrupted goblet" to criticize other works that don't fit this. Exactly what show doesn't fit this? For example, Apocrypha is literally the same thing as Zero - just double the characters. That's like trying to criticize Zero because LACKING elements of SOL because FATE routes do have that element. That's stupid and that's what I'm trying to explain. I'm NOT saying that I'm fully right and Zero can't be used. Is only MY opinion and that's it. I'm sorry if my level of english is not that great or something. But I've been explaining this to you since you first replied. Also MY personal opinion has NOTHING to do with this thread. True, it's called a preference/opinion, like this: I think the loli and trap bait in Apocrypha drags the show down overall, and Zero didn't have that, so I think Zero is better. There's nothing wrong with having that preference. What you're doing is calling peoples' preferences retarded. That's childish. And wtf? Your opinion has a lot to do with this thread. HELLO? You're literally saying your opinion is logical while everyone else's opinion isn't. And yes, I did called you slow, I don't see how that's not morally correct, you are acting slow because the only thing you're noticing is not even written here. And no matter how many times I explain you, you just jump or miss my point and conclude something else. This is not relevant of not agreeing with you. Oh please, get off your high horse, "genius." You literally contradicted yourself more than once. Your argument is based on a fallacy. I'm not here just to read your opinion, sorry if you thought that. I'm here to see different opinions because the fandom is not just composed of you. Otherwise I would just had deleted my board in the first reply no matter if they were right or wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't need your faulty validation of my opinion lmao. All I'm doing is pointing out your hypocrisy. I do thank you for your explanations but it seems you just took this too personal to the point of telling me my own conduct is embarrassing for a 25 years old. I noticed that your goal was to do this since you used the resource "UBW being my favorite". If you start attacking me personally because I don't agree with you then I have nothing else to discuss with you. Oh no, you hurt my feelings. Boo-hoo. [/end sarcasm] A 25 year old can't see she's blind to other's opinions. Why am I not surprised? If you felt I was personally attacking your hypocrisy, then that sounds like a personal problem. |
ZelevOct 31, 2017 11:54 AM
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| @Zelev I'm actually surprised by this point you don't understand that my opinion here never mattered and if MY opinion were to be more important than others then I wouldn't have done this thread. If cared less of anyone else opinion I wouldn't be here on first place. At my first point I even said "AM I MISSING SOMETHING ELSE?" Because guess what? I might be wrong thinking that people criticize just because fanboyism. Because that's how you put your perspective behind and start reading others perspective. I never stated "this is better, I liked this hence this other is shit", "this is more popular and has more score so I'm right to say this". My personal opinion towards the quality of the work was never mentioned here. JUST LIKE YOU DID MULTIPLE TIMES BTW :D In my whole seasons of replies I was just trying to reply what you stated about 'canon' And then you started seeing my point of view ilogic, while again, at the first post I never stated mine as completely logic and rules or some sort, and again you started another kind of argument that has nothing to do with what I'm seeking. And then you kept saying 'canon canon canon canon, fate is better and popular' etc etc etc. Do you think I made this for what? To tell everyone who is against my word to shut the hell up or something? I literally replied two or three stuffs and just read everything else to understand a bit of how everything else works. Until you came here and started telling me that thinking different is wrong and apparently I'm a hypocrite because I'm trying to seek some answers to understand how should or a closest way to criticize this kind of works, and by the way no, I never said that people should not do whatever they like, I just stated my point of view when you started asking me about it The ONLY moment I partially mentioned some else opinion is when ( Again by MY OPINION ) someone uses "This is green, I like more blue, because X was more blue hence this is crap" is a terrible way of making a review or critic and FOR ME can't be taken serious. Do you see me telling someone retarded here? do you see me telling someone else they're wrong and need to stop doing whatever they're doing? Yo do? Not really. If the title of my thread was "Why are people retarded and use 'x' way of criticizing another work if by my opinion is retarded to do it like that? " Then yes, I would give you the reason, I would be an hypocrite. But clearly the title is "So why people consider Fate/Zero as the real Fate serie and other works beside that a fail of the franchise?" I was never trying to say that Zero can't be that. I was looking for opinions. Again, I might be wrong. I might be expressing myself terrible. But as stated multiple times by myself I'm seeking opinions about the theme to understand why or how it works outside my perspective no more no less. But yeah I bet you're just going to keep telling me that Zero is canon lol. |
| Ahah. 3:37 of episode 17 is when I hit pause and decided to go ahead and drop this installment of Fate. Not only did it start out the episode with the "fake date turned real date" trope from the start, check that out: they have a list of the Masters from either side spread out on the table. So not only is there A LOT less action in this installment, the whole part of the war where they're trying to find out who the other Masters are is completely gone too! They left so little time for character development that you couldn't care less when a character dies either. That's assuming you find any of these characters to be written well enough to get attached to them in the first place (Mordred and the Necromancer being the only exception), even if they were given that much needed screen time. It keeps going off topic and giving us side stories that aren't even relevant. This is especially true when we have a faction attempting to screw with the Grail and potentially ruin the planet. But no, they're worried about a couple dozen lives like that's the best choice. Loss of innocent life has never been much of a problem in previous Fate installments. I'm fairly disappointed with this. I can only hope Heaven's Feel gets us back to the Fate we know and love. |
| "To be Great is to be misunderstood." - Ralph Waldo Emerson SaigoKensei said: My mistake was assuming they had the same amount of information I had.. |
| @SaigoKensei Sorry, did you confused this thread with the ep 17 one? Besides that, I think you're right, but as it also happened in Zero, they were trying to stop Guiles and Ryuunosuke because they discovered they were killing people just like Jack and Reika did. So is not completely wrong that they're trying to stop this threat. About the trying to know who the masters are, well.. There's no master left to know or discover about. The only thing that is stopping Shirou from using the Grail is killing the other servants that are left ¿? But yeah I can't say is weird to get disappoint by Apo. |
nymi said: Aardwolf94 said: More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! Thank you. You have summed it up on why I hate fsn. No problem, its no doubt garbage..but at least it gave us F/Z |
| @Veromaye I'm actually surprised by this point you don't understand that my opinion here never mattered and if MY opinion were to be more important than others then I wouldn't have done this thread. I know your opinion doesn't matter. What I'm saying is your logic is flawed. At my first point I even said "AM I MISSING SOMETHING ELSE?" Because guess what? I might be wrong thinking that people criticize just because fanboyism. Yeah, you missed a lot. There's a thing called a preference, like I stated already. Because that's how you put your perspective behind and start reading others perspective. You should try doing that some time. JUST LIKE YOU DID MULTIPLE TIMES BTW :D You mean give you examples multiple times? In my whole seasons of replies I was just trying to reply what you stated about 'canon' You do realize canon means "official," right? As in it's a part of the official story line. And then you started seeing my point of view ilogic, while again, at the first post I never stated mine as completely logic and rules or some sort, and again you started another kind of argument that has nothing to do with what I'm seeking. What you're seeking is the answer is why peoples' logic is like that. I already told you it's preference/opinion. And then you kept saying 'canon canon canon canon, fate is better and popular' etc etc etc. Zero is canon, which means it's official or part of the real story. You understand what official means, yes? And no, you missed my point. What I specifically said was that generally people prefer Zero, so they will be more inclined to compare it with other Fate series. If you don't know what generally means, it means "in most cases" or "usually." Do you think I made this for what? To tell everyone who is against my word to shut the hell up or something? I literally replied two or three stuffs and just read everything else to understand a bit of how everything else works. If the shoe fits. Until you came here and started telling me that thinking different is wrong and apparently I'm a hypocrite because I'm trying to seek some answers to understand how should or a closest way to criticize this kind of works, and by the way no, I never said that people should not do whatever they like, I just stated my point of view when you started asking me about it Whatever I say obviously doesn't register with you. Where did I say thinking different is wrong? I said calling peoples' logic retarded based on your fallacy is wrong. Now you just make up stuff lol. The ONLY moment I partially mentioned some else opinion is when ( Again by MY OPINION ) someone uses "This is green, I like more blue, because X was more blue hence this is crap" is a terrible way of making a review or critic and FOR ME can't be taken serious. Do you see me telling someone retarded here? do you see me telling someone else they're wrong and need to stop doing whatever they're doing? Yo do? Not really. So is Zero being a part of the "main core" an opinion or not? That's not what you said earlier.. I never said you called someone retarded. I said you called their logic retarded. However, you did call me "slow," which is basically the equivalent of calling me retarded on a lesser scale. Or are you going to say that never happened now lol? If the title of my thread was "Why are people retarded and use 'x' way of criticizing another work if by my opinion is retarded to do it like that? " Then yes, I would give you the reason, I would be an hypocrite. But clearly the title is "So why people consider Fate/Zero as the real Fate serie and other works beside that a fail of the franchise?" I was never trying to say that Zero can't be that. I was looking for opinions. There is not a single answer to this. You answered your thread in your original post. I also answered multiple times by giving examples of my opinion. But you somehow think that was me trying to get validation when in reality I don't care what you think of my preferences lol. Again, I might be wrong. I might be expressing myself terrible. But as stated multiple times by myself I'm seeking opinions about the theme to understand why or how it works outside my perspective no more no less. But yeah I bet you're just going to keep telling me that Zero is canon lol. ...You answered this already. Other people answered this. And you called their logic retarded. And yes, you are expressing yourself terribly. But yeah I bet you're just going to keep telling me that Zero is canon lol. Zero is canon. |
Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
Wasshio said: Aardwolf94 said: More like F/SN is aimed at losers who want to self insert into a generic Shounen hero who gets ridiculous power ups, saves the world, has his own shitty harem of cliche waifu's and is always good and nice. He never suffers for his dumbass worldview/being an incapable mage and everything is just fine for him. Who would like to self insert into Kiritsugu? His life fucking sucked and he achieved nothing. People like him because he is actually a compelling and for anime relatively original protagonist, how many brooding ruthless MC's are there? Characters like Shirou are basically milked to death. Better to have interesting conversations about what it means to be King or idealism vs realism regarding war than the same muh ideals bullshit with your future/alternate self. And no shit it showed darkness and despair in a battle royale game where everyone is out to kill each other...guess the boring SOL way where they go on dates and to highschool during the war is better for you? Stick to lighter shallow stuff like UBW! You say that but then you KIND of ignore the fact that Zero has its own fair share of problems as well. It wasn't really believable but it is somewhat understandable because of Fate/stay Night's later parts. I'm pretty sure Shirou being like that was intentional anyways, because Shirou took an ideal that wasn't his own, thus following said ideal in the war (even though the ideal is flawed because it isn't possible to save everyone) is more realistic than Kiritsugu's tbh. Because it fits with the age even, due to the nature as well at the age range he is at. At least imo. I'm not even a big fan of Zero to be honest but just pointing my two cents here. Never said F/Z was perfect and I obviously exaggerated the post since the other user was doing the same. Also what do you mean its understandable by F/SN's later parts? Anyway it being intentional doesn't make it any better and no I don't think Shirou is realistic at all. Most people wouldn't suddenly be so obsessed with someone's ideals, that he suffers PTSD of sorts from the fire event is understandable but the other part isn't. His stubborn "I know better and I'm 100% nice no matter what" personality feels like its taken straight out of the Shounen archtype And Kiritsugu isn't exactly realistic but he is compelling and thats the difference between the two. His ideals are much more realistic (no shit you cant save everyone..) and his backstory makes me feel more invested in his character. Also like I said the ruthless and morally ambigious personality is refreshing to watch, there aren't many anime MC's like him. Shirou is basically just a "faker" and naive as hell, his personality is annoying. Also his power ups are ridiculous and unlike Kiritsugu he never suffers for his ideals. |
Aardwolf94Oct 31, 2017 1:29 PM
More topics from this board
» A Guide to Fate/ApocryphaOneBetta - Mar 14 |
2 |
by OneBetta
»»
Mar 14, 4:48 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Apocrypha Episode 19 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Nov 11, 2017 |
97 |
by TheBiggestAm
»»
Mar 9, 7:31 PM |
|
» Who is your favorite character from Apocrypha?Omarumba - Feb 25 |
28 |
by Manthors
»»
Mar 1, 12:39 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Apocrypha Episode 25 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Dec 30, 2017 |
278 |
by PirateHasan
»»
Jan 5, 8:19 AM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Apocrypha Episode 21 Discussion ( 1 2 )Stark700 - Dec 2, 2017 |
86 |
by PirateHasan
»»
Dec 28, 2023 7:10 AM |