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noteDhero said: This character turn for Beatrice is beyond stupid. Witches are supposed to help people, but isn't Beatrice's power just to kill endlessly? Don't really see how that helps people. Since the beginning of this arc, I feel like there have been a lot of weaknesses springing up in the show that leave me very underwhelmed and not really all that entertained. At this point, I'm starting to cast aside my thought that the show is deep enough that all of the boards are different metaphors for the same murders, and that each game has different killers. I've almost given up on the notion of this show being intelligent in any way. There's definitely nothing wrong with being skeptical of Beato. But the power of the Endless Witch, theoretically, is NOT to kill endlessly, as Virgilia herself explained in the first episode of this arc. It's the power to heal all wounds. But like most great powers, it's a double edged sword. The power to give life makes most people lose perspective of what "death" really means, because it can always be fixed. Hm, I can't remember if this dialogue was kept in last episode (I'm pretty sure it wasn't -- it wasn't that important but it's indicative of what I'm talking about), but for example, Eva-B resurrects and kills again Kyrie and Rudolf several times in the novel before Hideyoshi arrives. While she's doing that, she talks about how, when you're a kid, you might have a stuffed animal that you really love. And you're curious about what's inside of it, and you really kind of want to rip it open and see. But because you have learned what "death" means, you don't do it, because if you do, you won't have your beloved stuffed animal anymore. However, with the power of the Endless Witch, you can restore that animal if you destroy it. Which means you can destroy it all you want. |
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| phew i see a beato vs eva fight coming up. but this character change is still weird for me... |
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| @June I also remember Virgilia saying that the power wasn't permanent and it was indicative in the vase being broken in a matter of seconds from it being fixed. This is also mirrored in Beatrice bringing back Shannon just to be killed by Evatrice. That's why I'd said however many episodes ago that it's more like having selective rewind. I don't think that's necessarily healing. I see what you mean though, but it almost doesn't matter since Beatrice has chosen to use her power, and win acknowledgment in this manner. |
noteDheroOct 22, 2009 2:19 PM
| Could someone post the TIPs for this episode? |
| Uuuuuuuuu~ Another cute Beatrice episode. I just want to hug her after the Big Bad Battler scolded her. >w< |
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hirahira said: Could someone post the TIPs for this episode?     |
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noteDhero said: @June I also remember Virgilia saying that the power wasn't permanent and it was indicative in the vase being broken in a matter of seconds from it being fixed. This is also mirrored in Beatrice bringing back Shannon just to be killed by Evatrice. That's why I'd said however many episodes ago that it's more like having selective rewind. I don't think that's necessarily healing. I see what you mean though, but it almost doesn't matter since Beatrice has chosen to use her power, and win acknowledgment in this manner. The reason the vase broke again, according to Virgilia, is because at that time she was not a fully accomplished Endless Witch, but only a student. Beatrice surpassed her teacher (this is mentioned at some point in the VN, probably not in the anime), partially because Virgilia says she did not want to reach that level, because someone with that much power is easily led astray. So ... it is consistent, and the point of Beato's "test" in this Arc is to learn where she has gone wrong. It seems she's only able to see how far she has strayed from the aims she once had as a student once she has lost most of that power; and now, perhaps it would be safe to say there are two goals she logically needs to reach: first of all to learn what a witch truly is, and be acknowledged by Battler; and secondly, to regain her power and defeat Eva-B. |
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| Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. |
noteDheroOct 22, 2009 3:05 PM
noteDhero said: Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. :) Well, that might be obvious ending for this kind of storyline. But just ask yourself, how many times has Umineko done the obvious so far? It could happen, maybe. You'll have to wait until next week to find out. |
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noteDhero said: I would accept it with open arms. <3Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. |
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| @June I meant ending for the entire show. I definitely wouldn't be finding out next week unless she reverts back to being a bitch. At this point the show has set a precedent for being obviously ridiculous, so anything can happen and I won't really see it as one thing or another. To your other comment: So Beatrice is more powerful than Virgilia, yet not a real witch as described in this episode, though Virgilia is? That's a little inconsistent to me. I think this is a little symptomatic of the show having problems saying anything concrete. |
MarthX said: hirahira said: Could someone post the TIPs for this episode? I really don't think he committed suicide. I wonder what they mean by a "small Golden Land" |
| Good episode. Kya kya kya kya kya kya...... :D |
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noteDhero said: To your other comment: So Beatrice is more powerful than Virgilia, yet not a real witch as described in this episode, though Virgilia is? That's a little inconsistent to me. I think this is a little symptomatic of the show having problems saying anything concrete. Virgilia said that witches use magic to bring people happiness but Beato hasn't been doing that so she shouldn't be called a witch. |
| I still have no idea where all this show's going, so I'll just say Beato with tears looks damn cute. |
| @hirahira Isn't that a little untrue though? She seems to have had a good relationship with Shannon and Rosa at different points. Maybe she didn't help Rosa, but I think she did give Shannon the confidence to love George. |
noteDhero said: @hirahira Isn't that a little untrue though? She seems to have had a good relationship with Shannon and Rosa at different points. Maybe she didn't help Rosa, but I think she did give Shannon the confidence to love George. When she was with Rosa she was in a "human body" which caused her to lose all of her memory concerning her being a witch (was told she was a witch by Kinzo but she didn't have the memories) The reason she helped out Shannon was because her former self believed that nothing was more enjoyable than tearing apart two people in love. By setting Shannon and George up she could gain the enjoyment of destroying a relationship that wasn't fated to be. |
noteDhero said: @hirahira Isn't that a little untrue though? She seems to have had a good relationship with Shannon and Rosa at different points. Maybe she didn't help Rosa, but I think she did give Shannon the confidence to love George. That was for her own amusement and so she could get something in return (breaking of the mirror). Also, I can't wait until next week! It's the episode I've been waiting to see since ep 3 started airing in the anime. |
Kishin said: OH MAH GAWWWWWWWWDdarkninja_loki said: I didn't get one part. Shannon died as sacrifice twice...should there be something messed up in the epitaph now? Wasnt the result so far; First Twilight: Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa, Gohda, Kinzo Second Twilight: Maria, Rosa Third Twilight: Praise the name seems left out after ep1... Fourth Twighlight through Eighth Twilight: Kirie, Rudolf, Hidiyoshi, Krauss, Natsuhi Ninth Twilight: The witch shall be revived and none shall be left alive Shannon wasnt a sacrifice, just couldn't be left alive :p On another note, I love how the next episode can be completly spoiled in 5 words. Seriously dont click spoiler unless u've read the VN Why did I click it!? WHY!? |
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| This was the best episode in a while imo. I like moe Beato when she's all innocent like that. |
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noteDhero said: Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. That would be the worst ending ever. I don't even want to think about it :< |
| I know it's bad, but so far, there have been a lot of indications that way. Especially in this game. |
noteDhero said: Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. Welcome to the Beato x Battler club. We've been rooting for this ending for a while ;). In fact one person even came up with a theory that the epitaph is related to the steps taken in courting Beato. It's in one of the first 5 episode threads I believe. If I can find it again I'll edit my post with a link to it. |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| nice ep. lmao @ Evas face and laugh at 19:36 |
DeathfireD said: Bad end. Bad end!noteDhero said: Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. Welcome to the Beato x Battler club. We've been rooting for this ending for a while ;). In fact one person even came up with a theory that the epitaph is related to the steps taken in courting Beato. It's in one of the first 5 episode threads I believe. If I can find it again I'll edit my post with a link to it. Battler x Beato is fine, but not that way. |
| Great episode! I hope the the last episode of this arc is as good as the rest. And lol @ Natsuhi's death. |
naikou said: DeathfireD said: Bad end. Bad end!noteDhero said: Just had a thought. If Beatrice going all moe has a purpose, what if all these murders just don't matter at all, and it's really just going to come down to Battler falling in love with Beatrice, and her using her power, plus Battler's power of love and strong will to reverse all of the death in the show for everyone to live happily ever after. I wonder how much of the community believes in this kind of ending. Welcome to the Beato x Battler club. We've been rooting for this ending for a while ;). In fact one person even came up with a theory that the epitaph is related to the steps taken in courting Beato. It's in one of the first 5 episode threads I believe. If I can find it again I'll edit my post with a link to it. Battler x Beato is fine, but not that way. Well the end wouldn't have to end happily ever after....as long as Beato and Battler hook up :P |
| ^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| Finally watched it. Hm. I felt for the first time watching the anime that knowing where this is going does harm a little the enjoyment, at least in my case... Anyway, good character moments, and it went pretty fast. They finally mention Ange to make up for her omission from the one line in EP1 xD. Next episode is gonna be a doozy. EDIT: wow, after seeing the first preview pictures, it's gonna look epic indeed. |
OmegaDenmadOct 22, 2009 8:07 PM
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| Can't wait for the next episode! Have yet to read the VN and because I started the anime first I don't want to ruin anything. Honestly, what a dick ending though. I have to wait 1 more week D: |
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OmegaDenmad said: EDIT: wow, after seeing the first preview pictures, it's gonna look epic indeed. Don't let DEEN get your hopes up too high, I've seen this all too much, only for people to be utterly disappointed at it's mediocrity. |
| You know, a lot of what's being said in this thread is really borderline. More than any previous discussion. I'd implore you guys to take anything not related to this episode that is not speculation from anime-only viewers perspective elsewhere. |
| First thing I gotta say about this episode is I loved the way Jessica shrieked when she saw her parents dead. What I mean is great voice acting...pervs. XD Anyways, that dejected Beato was soooooooooooo cute. I wanted to hug her. :3 Anyways, thoughts on the murders: Awwwwww |
DarkIceXIIIOct 22, 2009 10:49 PM
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| Not bad not bad. Hoping at least for this level of quality to continue... But knowing DEEN i shouldn't get my hopes up lest i get disappointed. Who knows, maybe they'll give me reason to believe in them again. noteDhero said: You know, a lot of what's being said in this thread is really borderline. More than any previous discussion. I'd implore you guys to take anything not related to this episode that is not speculation from anime-only viewers perspective elsewhere. Next is one of the most anticipated episodes so sorry if all the SN players can't keep it in. Even i can barely contain myself from spoiling it. |
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| The preview for 18 is really great but it's yet to be uploaded on YouTube. An advanced warning to anime only watchers. It's full of spoilers. |
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| Hard to believe o_o!! Beato is starting to become a good witch ... despite the front episodes |
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| Not bad, but not great either. |
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DarkIceXIII said: Awwwwww Yeah I can give her one when she is like that. OmegaDenmad said: Finally watched it. Hm. I felt for the first time watching the anime that knowing where this is going does harm a little the enjoyment, at least in my case... Anyway, good character moments, and it went pretty fast. They finally mention Ange to make up for her omission from the one line in EP1 xD. Next episode is gonna be a doozy. EDIT: wow, after seeing the first preview pictures, it's gonna look epic indeed. PsychFreak said: It'd be wise to put what you just said in a spoiler tag just like I did. Ok, done. |
francismeunierOct 23, 2009 2:24 AM
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| @francismeunier: Please put your last sentences in SPOILER tag. |
MarthX said: after reading those hints from the game, thats like....totally putting things right in your face lol.hirahira said: Could someone post the TIPs for this episode? "if only there wasnt that stupid epitaph, I wouldnt have needed a stake. what a pain." lol, that was exactly how i imagined the "new suspect" was thinking. this totally confirmed whats discussed in ep16 thread already. "why follow epitaph? a game?" thats also that those corpses say: the current murderer dont really get the real meaning of "previous suspects" killing methods. "just a little longer, he would have returned alive (nanjo)" it can be read as, nanjo became accomplice, but after killing people and about to kill the rest as well, his guilty conscience struck and he wanted to back out. but of course theres no way out than having himself dead~ "07151129 if you say it a small golden land will be opened" i would interpret that as theres some more gold lying around, in smaller quantity and in a different place, eg a safe that needs password or so. Anyway, problem would be: who wrote those number on the door? 1. "killer": its highly possible that the killer wrote something on the door to draw attention so that the corpse can be found quickly. but then, why would killer write password to gold on a door? doesnt make sense to me anyway. 2. george: 2a). he wrote something on the door and was then killed inside the room? why should he write anything on a door at first place? no-sense :-) 2b). he wrote something on the door and then killed himself inside the room? that would explain the suicide well, because if he did suicide out of own will, its highly posssible he would want to leave message behind and have his corpse found sooner. but if this is his "message", it would mean he realized/discovered something, cant take it himself (suicide) but didnt want every one of the survived to get it, thus why its written in numbers rather than in plain words. question would be: (less important) what did he find out or what do the numbers say? and (more interesting) who is the message for? his mom, eva? that would be a very natural assumption, cause his mom would be the person who understands him the best. jessica or nanjo? least likely... battler? since battler quickly realized his own birthday between those numbers, theres high chance its something for him. anyway, now new suspect is confirmed. i can feel hes intending to kill every single person there.(unlike 1st and 2nd arc) After nanjo died, it would be battler next, leaving blind jessica to the last would be for me the wisest option. |
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| I am so confused right now. Bring people back from the dead only to be killed seconds later again and Battler feeling sorry for Beitrice 4/5. What can happen next? |
| I am the light and the darkness tossed away by fate. I am hope and despair needed by all and to none. I am CuresDestiny. Fear me or Not it is all the same to me. <insert maniacal laughter here>  |
| a rare for DEEN to have 2 good episode in a row, which means soon things will go bad... I hope the ending of banquet will not be bad an i just hope that DEEN will keep improving. Nice with the GeorgexShannon's reunion, I can't wait for Kanon to show up. But they didn't really explain why Jessica's eyes to hurt and why Eva shot his shotgun. |
yamato21Oct 24, 2009 7:10 AM
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| Preview for episode 18 |
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| Beato is becoming more and more cute xD Liked George and Shannon's scene </3 |
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| The preview is amazing. |
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