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Nov 14, 2009 4:25 AM

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My take on the bottles is that two may have been found, but many more could exist and they could detail different ways the Rokkenjima mystery went, representing different "plans" to carry the whole thing.

Don't know how specific they are since what was shown of the bottle found in EP1 didn't say much, but if they go into details like it's suggested in EP4, I guess none of the bottles found was EP3 since it would convict Eva for killing Battler.
Of course, knowing details that far would need esp... or magic. Knowing exactly how people would behave... only a real chessmaster for the human side could do it, leaving only a few suspects.

Fragments in this series have been mentioned since the first ????, but I don't think more than one future has been shown.

Oh... and the author did say that staying on one side of the argument and ignoring everything in the other is "doing it wrong". That's the point of the love thing, you HAVE to keep both interpretations in mind to solve everything.
Nov 14, 2009 4:51 AM

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Is there any way to combine the VN and this anime to learn a logic/conclusion to it? Or this season will not be completed? It will need a second season. Also I think Ange should be able to come back to where she left off with everyone being older. Even if there are some personalities change in her like Eva not adopting her. Logically I think that but rules of the game might not allow this for her.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Nov 14, 2009 5:05 AM

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francismeunier said:
Is there any way to combine the VN and this anime to learn a logic/conclusion to it? Or this season will not be completed? It will need a second season. Also I think Ange should be able to come back to where she left off with everyone being older. Even if there are some personalities change in her like Eva not adopting her. Logically I think that but rules of the game might not allow this for her.

This season is likely to end with episode 4. While the novels are already up to episode 5 with episode 6 due to be released on Dec 30. So you can tell that a second season is bound to be made eventually

As for Ange's situation it was pretty much stated why she can't have her dreamlike happy ending. The Ange of 1998 the one with Amakusa is already established. Her world state is final and cannot be changed. So if the family returns, it will not happen in Ange's past but to a different Ange in a parallel world or as the term for it is in both Higurashi and Umineko in a different Kakera
Darklight0303Nov 14, 2009 7:16 AM
Nov 14, 2009 4:10 PM

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noteDhero said:
In almost every thread there is a back to back conversation of spoilers. There is no place in an episode discussion for that. I say some VNers, because I feel like it's someone different every time, and it only takes one person to go out of their way to condescend on the way people are looking at the show for me to be annoyed because it almost always spirals into the same conversations over and over as opposed to discussing the implications of the single episode on the show forward. How many times have VNers arrogantly challenged valid opinions (based off the episode) with "I can spoil you if you want, but I won't. All I'll say is you're wrong." I've lost count.


Qft.

Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

They also bitch about what's been left out from the VN. (It's been happening alot recently, especially in this thread. They're never happy, and it's annoying).

Almost every thread,
"DEEN didn't do _insert boring pointless filler scene here_ from the VN!"
"DEEN is horrible, this episode was rushed!"
"In the VN, battler and beatrice _Insert spoiler here_"

I hope Ookami Kakushi won't be anything like this.
Nov 14, 2009 4:27 PM

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Animefan1929 said:
noteDhero said:
In almost every thread there is a back to back conversation of spoilers. There is no place in an episode discussion for that. I say some VNers, because I feel like it's someone different every time, and it only takes one person to go out of their way to condescend on the way people are looking at the show for me to be annoyed because it almost always spirals into the same conversations over and over as opposed to discussing the implications of the single episode on the show forward. How many times have VNers arrogantly challenged valid opinions (based off the episode) with "I can spoil you if you want, but I won't. All I'll say is you're wrong." I've lost count.


Qft.

Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

They also bitch about what's been left out from the VN. (It's been happening alot recently, especially in this thread. They're never happy, and it's annoying).

Almost every thread,
"DEEN didn't do _insert boring pointless filler scene here_ from the VN!"
"DEEN is horrible, this episode was rushed!"
"In the VN, battler and beatrice _Insert spoiler here_"

I hope Ookami Kakushi won't be anything like this.


I agree with every single thing you said except for the VN being crap. The art is annoying at first though.
Nov 14, 2009 4:50 PM

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Animefan1929 said:

The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

Some people value story and development a lot more than eye candy >:(
Nov 14, 2009 5:39 PM

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PsychFreak said:
DeathfireD said:
PsychFreak said:
DeathfireD said:
The problem is the majority of this series has been magic. It would have been logical to try and keep things even by making her anti-magic but noooo they make her out to be a witch. Battler seems like the only sane person in their family


She is anti-magic, she is still going to help Battler in solving the murders. It's not like she's gonna switch over to the witch's side just because she's a witch herself. Her main goal is to break her brother out of the endless cycle that Beatrice puts him in. Her goal is to get her family to escape from the never ending October 3rd-5th of Rokkenjima. So just because she's a witch doesn't mean she's all of a sudden anti-mystery.


That's not the point. This whole episode revolved around her and how she's been learning about magic. That's what pissed me off. Regardless of whether she helps Battler or not she's still going to have some magical element to her which is crap.


Like it was said already in this thread, learning magic and knowing how it works is the best way to defeat it.


You're still missing my point entirely lol. I'm gonna give up on trying to explain why this episode angered me. You can go on and keep giving examples why you like it :P.
Nov 14, 2009 6:28 PM

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DeathfireD said:
You're still missing my point entirely lol. I'm gonna give up on trying to explain why this episode angered me. You can go on and keep giving examples why you like it :P.
If you are saying the fact is pissing you off that Ange who supposedly is anti-fantasy learns magic herself, i would say Umineko can never be seen without magic. To fully understand it, you should not only deny magic but also accept magic. It can be hard to deny magic with all these fantasy stuffs at first, but I'd say it is as well hard to accept magic after you first deny it~
Ange is what she is, denying magic as a witch herself, it cannot be changed because that is exactly what umineko is.
I think by the time when one comes to really accept and appreciate all these fantasy elements in umineko, one has really understood the show~

Animefan1929 said:
Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

They also bitch about what's been left out from the VN. (It's been happening alot recently, especially in this thread. They're never happy, and it's annoying).
Me no VN reader so this isnt directed at me, but I have to say: minor aged kid need stay off these threads here!~ you wont have any chance to understand it anyway, so why keep watching it?
vinesageNov 14, 2009 6:42 PM
Nov 14, 2009 6:32 PM

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Animefan1929 said:

The VN is a piece of crap anyway.


Wow. Bitter much?

I actually find this incredibly offensive, so I can't even post much more. It amazes me that you somehow like the anime but think the VN is trash? Presumably you're just funneling your anger over all the supposed "spoilers" and complainng VN fans, but really? If that's true, that comment just makes you look vaguely psychotic. Chill the fuck out.
Nov 14, 2009 7:07 PM

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Jaen-ni-rin said:
I was just wondering and since I don't have enough time to read the VNs now...

I cant argue with your fantasy theory of those 2 bottles, it seems quite complicate alright.(which I kinda doubt it really is) Since Im able to fully explain all these scenes in plausible non-magic way, I personally don’t see the need to think about that magical option yet.

Jaen-ni-rin said:
The other explantation could be only purely anti-fantastical with the letters being just an occult make-up by the real murderer, since I don't really remember anyone in When They Cry multiverse being able to pass anything more than a consciousness to an other universe, which makes it impossible for the bottles to be from different worlds if my barrier supposition falls (unless the witches get some new hax skills).
Since the content of the manuscripts is unknown, it is to assume a person wrote 2 different sets of highly realistic events. This doesn’t need any “multiverse” explanation and fits the intend of a culprit perfectly. No one will look for possible murderer if it is assumed magic is in play, and people will only believe magic is in play when the 2 different manuscripts are both highly likely to have had happened in reality.
Nov 14, 2009 7:43 PM

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June_1983 said:
Animefan1929 said:

The VN is a piece of crap anyway.


Wow. Bitter much?

I actually find this incredibly offensive, so I can't even post much more. It amazes me that you somehow like the anime but think the VN is trash? Presumably you're just funneling your anger over all the supposed "spoilers" and complainng VN fans, but really? If that's true, that comment just makes you look vaguely psychotic. Chill the fuck out.


Ignorant much?

You need to understand that I'm not the only Anime-only user who likes the anime but dislikes the VN.

Forums like these need better moderation (Like animesuki). Because almost 80% of you people discuss the VN rather then the episode itself.



Yeah.... The VN version is so cool compared to the anime version..... just look at that art and soundtrack....
Animefan1929Nov 14, 2009 7:47 PM
Nov 14, 2009 7:47 PM
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>implying the music in the visual novel is bad
>Implying that you yourself aren't ignorant

-10000/100000000

Didn't you read the first 10 minutes or something of the first vn?
Way to judge it on the slowest paced and introduction chapter.
Seriously, you make me want to type in spoilers in all caps just to spite you.
Nov 14, 2009 7:58 PM

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Denwa said:
>implying the music in the visual novel is bad
>Implying that you yourself aren't ignorant

-10000/100000000

Didn't you read the first 10 minutes or something of the first vn?
Way to judge it on the slowest paced and introduction chapter.
Seriously, you make me want to type in spoilers in all caps just to spite you.


"Seriously, you make me want to type in spoilers in all caps just to spite you'

That's just immature. Well you might as well do it since I'm probably going to hear MORE spoilers in the next episode discussion.

And that video I just showed you was only one VN chapter I've read. A few weeks ago I did read chapter 2 of the VN and compared it to the anime. Overall the anime version was better. The art is terrible and it's boring compared to the anime. The anime is more epic then the VN version (Beatrice vs Virgilia for one great example).
Animefan1929Nov 14, 2009 8:04 PM
Nov 14, 2009 8:02 PM
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>The anime is more epic then the VN version (Beatrice vs Virgilia for one great example).

Dude, I think I'm getting fucking trolled.
And you're an idort if you think that spoilers are actually posted here without spoiler tags.
DenwaNov 14, 2009 8:05 PM
Nov 14, 2009 8:07 PM

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@Animefan1929: The VN is a doujin game so its strong point is not the art, but the story.
If that "piece of crap" didn't exist, there would be no anime for you.
Nov 14, 2009 8:10 PM

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Animefan1929 said:

That's just immature.

Animefan1929 said:
Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

Please don't call others immature when your argument started with such a ridiculously immature cheap shot to every fan of the VN. Your first post was a perfect example of a troll with no common decency. If you want to get your opinion across that you prefer the anime at least do it like a civilized adult.

If this forum was heavily moderated like you desire then your post would have probably been removed. What does that say about yourself?
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Nov 14, 2009 8:16 PM

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Denwa said:
>The anime is more epic then the VN version (Beatrice vs Virgilia for one great example).

Dude, I think I'm getting fucking trolled.
And you're an idort if you think that spoilers are actually posted here without spoiler tags.


O rly?

Drkness19 said:
francismeunier said:

Ok, now it makes sense. So Ange inherited all the powers of Eva-Beatrice. You can say you light a bulb in my head on this one. Can Ange be as strong as Eva-Beatrice is a good question or can she even surpass her.


Ange just inherited the title of Ushiromiya family head and beatrice title in general from Eva. She didn't receive it from Eva-Beatrice.
francismeunier said:

Really? Impressive so Maria could even created what Bernkastel did in Higurashi? Can Maria be as strong as Bernkastel even? If so then Maria can truly be among the witches with her title. I would call her personally Maria the witch of sweet things or maybe of kindness would be nice. What do you think?


Bernkastel isn't a creator like MARIA is. She is the witch of miracles. If we assume Higurashi was the game Bern was playing against Lambda, Bern wasn't creating the other worlds. She was just giving Rika a chance again and again.

I think it was said in the VN that MARIA would be even more powerful than Bern and Lambda when reaching the top. And in case you are wondering, MARIA in caps is her witch name.
Nov 14, 2009 8:23 PM

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Ketuekigami said:
Animefan1929 said:

That's just immature.

Animefan1929 said:
Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

Please don't call others immature when your argument started with such a ridiculously immature cheap shot to every fan of the VN. Your first post was a perfect example of a troll with no common decency. If you want to get your opinion across that you prefer the anime at least do it like a civilized adult.

If this forum was heavily moderated like you desire then your post would have probably been removed. What does that say about yourself?


If this forum was heavily moderated I wouldn't have to post all those comments because there would not have been no spoilers.

Can't you people read? This is an episode discussion, not a VN discussion.
Nov 14, 2009 8:23 PM
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Character descriptions that won't be animated aren't spoilers.
Nov 14, 2009 8:29 PM

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Denwa said:
Character descriptions that won't be animated aren't spoilers.


Read closely. (How do you know if it would be animated or not?)

Drkness19 said:


Bernkastel isn't a creator like MARIA is. She is the witch of miracles.

I think it was said in the VN that MARIA would be even more powerful than Bern and Lambda when reaching the top. And in case you are wondering
Nov 14, 2009 8:40 PM

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Animefan1929 said:
Ketuekigami said:
Animefan1929 said:

That's just immature.

Animefan1929 said:
Horrible place to discuss the actual episodes without VN readers spoiling it for us.
The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

Please don't call others immature when your argument started with such a ridiculously immature cheap shot to every fan of the VN. Your first post was a perfect example of a troll with no common decency. If you want to get your opinion across that you prefer the anime at least do it like a civilized adult.

If this forum was heavily moderated like you desire then your post would have probably been removed. What does that say about yourself?


If this forum was heavily moderated I wouldn't have to post all those comments because there would not have been no spoilers.

Can't you people read? This is an episode discussion, not a VN discussion.

I seriously doubt that since the way way you have presented yourself is of a troll that wants his opinion heard and doesn't care about common decency. I wouldn't be surprised if you took the same cheap shots at the VN even if there were no supposed "spoilers" here, which there are in fact none.

And good job completely ignoring how immature your first comment sounded. The fact that you wont even admit how bad it sounded shows little to no hope of your open mindedness or consideration for other peoples opinions.

And guess what, everyone is discussing the aspects of the VN AND the anime. If you fail to see that i don't know what to say. talking about aspects of the original source in comparison to the adaptation isn't anything new. Just replace "VN" with "manga" and it happens all the time in these threads. I fail to see anything wrong with how discussions are being carried out in this forum.

Denwa said:
Character descriptions that won't be animated aren't spoilers.

correct.
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Nov 14, 2009 11:33 PM

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Animefan1929 said:

Read closely. (How do you know if it would be animated or not?)


Oh I don't know maybe because some of those parts WERE ALREADY ANIMATED WRONG???!! ^____^ seriously you're the only one with the attitude problem here bud. Calling the source material crap is like denying the entire series and it shows a level of stupidity greater than you could imagine also I have to say you sir put most of the anime viewers in a VERY bad light and are only proving that we are right to think so little of you guys so I suggest you shut up count to 1000 and come back when you can hold your acid tongue in check

And before you start about how I am a Novel fanatic, let me tell you. I started with the anime and I enjoyed it I admit. And then I saw people talk about cut out scenes and the shortened fight in episode 3. That got me curious so I obtained the novels and translation and guess what? I realized they were right.
Darklight0303Nov 15, 2009 4:38 AM
Nov 15, 2009 1:51 AM
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This is just getting confusing. I don't trust any of the witches, why is Ange so stupid believing in them? Especially Maria.
Even though she is cute, that doesn't make her innocent and trustable.
Nov 15, 2009 2:54 AM

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It's not so much as trusting the witches as it is about her having faith and hoping she can save her family. That can blind people to the bigger picture
Nov 15, 2009 8:59 AM

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June_1983 said:
Animefan1929 said:

The VN is a piece of crap anyway.


Wow. Bitter much?

I actually find this incredibly offensive, so I can't even post much more. It amazes me that you somehow like the anime but think the VN is trash? Presumably you're just funneling your anger over all the supposed "spoilers" and complainng VN fans, but really? If that's true, that comment just makes you look vaguely psychotic. Chill the fuck out.

Here is what I think of all this:VN= to me more information! Anime = to me another view of VN that is more entertaining. Does that solve the problem?

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Nov 15, 2009 9:28 AM
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Darklight0303 said:
Animefan1929 said:

The VN is a piece of crap anyway. I can't believe that anybody would like that boring poorly design garbage.

Some people value story and development a lot more than eye candy >:(


And in the VN actually dose have more story and character development than the anime. I won't say that the anime is not good, it depends on personal taste anyway. But judging by the poor sale of DVD in Japan, I guess many people, especially the Japanese, find the anime inferior to the original VN.
Nov 15, 2009 10:50 AM
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Obviously this thread is broken now...(users who think artwork/music are more important than substance vs. hardcore "you anime viewers are all inferior or dumbasses" SN fans)

I suggest we need some moderation :/
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
Nov 15, 2009 11:24 AM

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Yeah...

It's a good thing that anime is almost done. I hope the VN players can keep from spoiling EP5.
Nov 15, 2009 11:33 AM

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hirahira said:
Yeah...

It's a good thing that anime is almost done. I hope the VN players can keep from spoiling EP5.

It's gonna be hard for that to happen once the translation patch for it is released. @_@

Still with the anime gone for a while the place where those spoilers would go would also vanish
Nov 15, 2009 1:34 PM
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Of course not all the little details are going to show up! If it were, the series would take forever to finish! Plus, considering all the scenes that may or may not be real, I consider some of the cuts to be a blessing in disguise.

Also, Ryukishi07 himself said that even anime-only fans could solve the mystery.
Nov 15, 2009 1:41 PM

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Animefan1929 said:

Can't you people read? This is an episode discussion, not a VN discussion.


First of all, the thing you quoted over and over and over again is NOT spoilers. There is nothing in there that is yet to be revealed in a future episode. It's just stuff that wasn't mentioned in the anime. Those are not spoilers. Get that through your head right now.

Secondly, you MADE this a discussion about the VN with your pathetic, immature trolling. Drama queen.

Thirdly, don't ever post again, because you are a vortex of stupidity that is gradually dragging this thread into OT territory. Nobody gives a shit about your opinions.
June_1983Nov 15, 2009 1:45 PM
Nov 15, 2009 2:06 PM
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Okay, I'm new to this discussion, so I'm not entirely sure what's been going on, but this has to stop.

VN readers need to stop bitching about what DEEN did or didn't do and anime-only readers need to stop bitching about spoilers. As the wise Jan-Poo of Animesuki once said, "If you see a spoiler, do not shamelessly point it out. Sometimes a "spoiler" goes completely unnoticed until people make a fuss about it."

Remember, the anime is an ADAPTION of the VN. Of COURSE VN readers are going to make comparisons. The problem is whining about it. It's not going to change anything, so why bother whining? As for the art, am I the only one who kinda LIKES the VN art? It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. Plus, DEEN is guilty of QUALITY, too. And as people have already mentioned, it's not the art that matters in a VN, it's the story. The story itself reveals a lot about the characters. Some of that stuff needs to be cut in order to make time restraints. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.

And anime-only viewers shouldn't be hating on the VN. If the VN didn't exist, neither would the anime. Plain and simple. At the same time, the anime has brought all new fans of the series to the table.

So let's stop arguing over the superiority of the VN vs. the anime and do what Ryukishi07 wants us to do. What we came here to do: Solve the mystery!
Nov 15, 2009 2:13 PM

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animenutcase said:


And anime-only viewers shouldn't be hating on the VN. If the VN didn't exist, neither would the anime. Plain and simple.

Sounds good to me. I'll continue hating on the VN.
Nov 15, 2009 5:18 PM
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Gee, this thread sure went to hell since I left. I'll try to clear some things up.

Anime-only watchers: There are always gonna be VN readers here to compare things DEEN did with the anime, but spoilers are rarely posted here, and when they are, they are in spoiler tags at least. But lately no real spoilers have been posted here lately. Also, instead of whining about why we whine about how horrible the anime has done compared to the VN, use what most of us say to get more information. Most things we post here are more detailed descriptions of what the anime left out for the most recent episode, so use it to your advantage if you feel it's relevant. Most times it's not, but if interest you, use it.

VN readers: This elitism has got to stop, we should respect our anime only watching counterparts opinions. It's fine to compare the anime with the VN because we of course read the original source, so it can't be helped. But let's try not to complain too much about how the anime did compared to the VN and stray into VN only discussion because most likely huge spoilers will pop up, and I know this irritates a lot of anime only watchers. I think what we should do most is clear up some things that the anime made more confusing than it should to anime only viewers. For example, most characterizations.

But above all else, it would be nice to keep things civilized and not turn this into a thread full of trolls. If someone ignorant and immature pops up, ignore them, plain and simple, otherwise the thread will not be going in the right direction like it has done now.
HaiShangNov 15, 2009 5:23 PM
Nov 15, 2009 7:28 PM

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PsychFreak said:
Gee, this thread sure went to hell since I left. I'll try to clear some things up.

Anime-only watchers: There are always gonna be VN readers here to compare things DEEN did with the anime, but spoilers are rarely posted here, and when they are, they are in spoiler tags at least. But lately no real spoilers have been posted here lately. Also, instead of whining about why we whine about how horrible the anime has done compared to the VN, use what most of us say to get more information. Most things we post here are more detailed descriptions of what the anime left out for the most recent episode, so use it to your advantage if you feel it's relevant. Most times it's not, but if interest you, use it.

Exactly! Well said and that is exaclty what I do and don't.

In spoiler my anime list for now.
Nov 15, 2009 10:20 PM

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Great episode. Loved Maria there and Ange is nice too. Maria as witch is so great~
I still hope for Bern to win~
Tosi ystävyys ei jäädy pakkasella! Thank you for your visit. Welcome again!
Nov 16, 2009 2:20 AM

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This episode was okay

One thing I really didn't like was how they did that one scene with Rosa and Maria.
In the VN, Rosa slapped Maria for picking up that paper and she didn't apologize until she read a letter from Maria that said "Let's share our happiness"

Anyway, Sakutarou is super cute in the anime. Mammon's voice is good. And they mentioned Witch Hunt :D
Nov 16, 2009 3:10 AM

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Fabrice said:
TOne thing I really didn't like was how they did that one scene with Rosa and Maria.
In the VN, Rosa slapped Maria for picking up that paper and she didn't apologize until she read a letter from Maria that said "Let's share our happiness"


That scene made me cry in the VN >_>
Nov 16, 2009 4:22 AM

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Another boring episode...though in the middle...surprise
...that was awesome.Gotta love gg releases ^_^

"Only the dead have seen the end of war".
~Plato~
Nov 16, 2009 9:49 AM

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Aw, great *___*
Angie is not too bad. Better to say she is cool!

Aw, and kinda new op is great too <3
Mariaa~
Uryu~
Nov 16, 2009 11:53 PM

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a bit confused here...Maria turning into a witch with magical powers and such is a constant in all the arcs right? So technically during the murders she dies AS a witch? (In a pro-fantasy perspective)

and the only way Ange is talking to Maria is through the grimoire, but technically Maria is dead in 1998, she is only able to talk to Ange through the magic Ange had + the book?




Nov 17, 2009 12:42 AM
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psychoplast said:
a bit confused here...Maria turning into a witch with magical powers and such is a constant in all the arcs right? So technically during the murders she dies AS a witch? (In a pro-fantasy perspective)

and the only way Ange is talking to Maria is through the grimoire, but technically Maria is dead in 1998, she is only able to talk to Ange through the magic Ange had + the book?


It depends on how you define the words "Magic" and "Witch".

From anti-fantasy perspective, magic is no more than the power of believing something and trying to bring what you believe to become true. "Magic" does not mean magic in the sense of fantasy genre (like in Fate/Stay Night or D&D). So even if Maria is a witch of origin, her power cannot be materialize in the real world (but can in the meta-world, since meta-world is another level of plane by itself.)

So yeah, Maria is a witch, but in which senses? That's what you have to figure or believe by yourself.
Nov 17, 2009 1:30 AM

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I find it weird how Battler has never asked Beatrice to define her meaning of magic.

He asks her what she means by closed room and such but never what she means by magic.
Nov 17, 2009 2:08 AM

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Plate said:
animenutcase said:


And anime-only viewers shouldn't be hating on the VN. If the VN didn't exist, neither would the anime. Plain and simple.

Sounds good to me. I'll continue hating on the VN.


Haha! True though, I dislike the visual novels (the soundtrack is awesome though, WorldEndDominator ftw) because of it's horrible drawings. Sure the quality of the anime is sometimes not that great as well, but that's because of the budget, not because they don't work right. The visual novels just screams that it's better to work with a group than with just one individual person AKA yourself. Ryu07's stories are great, I love them, but his drawings are a totally different story even though the clothes of the characters are pretty cool - but they just aren't drawed right. It's kind of weird that he hired people to make a soundtrack, but not people who could draw the characters. Am I the only one who doesn't get that?

As for the anime episode, I don't know because I ain't that far yet, but it's probably interesting and awesome as usual~
Nov 17, 2009 5:45 AM

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Zonak said:
Plate said:
animenutcase said:


And anime-only viewers shouldn't be hating on the VN. If the VN didn't exist, neither would the anime. Plain and simple.

Sounds good to me. I'll continue hating on the VN.


Haha! True though, I dislike the visual novels (the soundtrack is awesome though, WorldEndDominator ftw) because of it's horrible drawings. Sure the quality of the anime is sometimes not that great as well, but that's because of the budget, not because they don't work right. The visual novels just screams that it's better to work with a group than with just one individual person AKA yourself. Ryu07's stories are great, I love them, but his drawings are a totally different story even though the clothes of the characters are pretty cool - but they just aren't drawed right. It's kind of weird that he hired people to make a soundtrack, but not people who could draw the characters. Am I the only one who doesn't get that?

As for the anime episode, I don't know because I ain't that far yet, but it's probably interesting and awesome as usual~


I really think people make waaay too much of how "awful" the art is. And by the way, Ryu07 does have a team of assistants. He does the art because he chooses to; the art style is in other words a conscious decision, not an accident or just chance. You can say you don't like his art style, but please don't say it isn't "drawed right" (ugh). His art style for Higurashi was pretty unprofessional, because he was a doujin artist. But he improved vastly with Umineko and I would say the art is pretty polished in that game. I think people tend to talk about it without really knowing much about it. "Oh, I heard the art is terrible in those games." "It are a fact, I know because of my learnings."



Can you really point out anything terrible here? Not just "not to your tastes" but actually really bad and unprofessional? Because I can't. Everything is mostly in proportion. The character's expression is very well done. The clothing is drawn very beautifully. There are certain aspects of his art style which are a little weird (round features, big hands), but there's nothing wrong with that.

There are some characters whose design I just don't like personally (like Lambdadelta's, and one character whom we haven't met yet ... also I have never been a fan of Rudolf's man-boobs), but I'm frankly sick of people constantly bitching about the art style of 07thexpansion. If that factor is make or break for you, well, I pity you.
Nov 17, 2009 6:27 AM

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MarthX said:
I find it weird how Battler has never asked Beatrice to define her meaning of magic.

He asks her what she means by closed room and such but never what she means by magic.


That's because Battler is an idiot. Even on the island during the first murders, despite the fact that Maria seemed to know a few circles and translations, Battler ignores that and presses on about "turning the chessboard around." He's just not a particularly observant character. In order to get anything useful out of him you have to corner him and make him betray all of the stupid rules he puts on himself.

June_1983 said:


Can you really point out anything terrible here? Not just "not to your tastes" but actually really bad and unprofessional? Because I can't. Everything is mostly in proportion. The character's expression is very well done. The clothing is drawn very beautifully. There are certain aspects of his art style which are a little weird (round features, big hands), but there's nothing wrong with that.

There are some characters whose design I just don't like personally (like Lambdadelta's, and one character whom we haven't met yet ... also I have never been a fan of Rudolf's man-boobs), but I'm frankly sick of people constantly bitching about the art style of 07thexpansion. If that factor is make or break for you, well, I pity you.


We're talking about an anime/manga style which is, by definition highly stylized. There's plenty to point out in the face, not to mention her body-type specific to her age that someone could gripe at. It's art. When it's not 100% according to reality (in this case human form) its going to be that much more about personal feelings. And when it deviates from the norm, it's going to be more about breaking those pre-conceived notions about how something should look. If you ask me, my problem with the VN art is that it makes everyone look like little people. They're all so stubby and lacking a sense of height that they feel like they're all under 4'.
Nov 17, 2009 8:30 AM

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noteDhero said:


We're talking about an anime/manga style which is, by definition highly stylized. There's plenty to point out in the face, not to mention her body-type specific to her age that someone could gripe at. It's art. When it's not 100% according to reality (in this case human form) its going to be that much more about personal feelings. And when it deviates from the norm, it's going to be more about breaking those pre-conceived notions about how something should look. If you ask me, my problem with the VN art is that it makes everyone look like little people. They're all so stubby and lacking a sense of height that they feel like they're all under 4'.


That is understandable. There are a lot of quirks too Ryuukishi07's art style and you either get used to them (and grow kind of fond of them eventually) or you don't. (And actually, while you're definitely right about the stubbiness of the designs, it's not something you really notice much in-game, since you only see them from the waist up -- there are a few perspective problems with heights with the sprites though.) I just get irritated when people say things like "they aren't drawed right". Honestly.
Nov 17, 2009 9:01 AM

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True. When I hear comments like that I just think, "Well, you probably don't do anything remotely artistic in your life," so those opinions are already greatly diminished. Consistency is the biggest issue when it's something different. Also, if you're being a stickler about the grammar, you have to understand that not everyone speaks English natively on this website.
noteDheroNov 17, 2009 9:04 AM
Nov 18, 2009 9:51 AM

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noteDhero said:
True. When I hear comments like that I just think, "Well, you probably don't do anything remotely artistic in your life," so those opinions are already greatly diminished. Consistency is the biggest issue when it's something different. Also, if you're being a stickler about the grammar, you have to understand that not everyone speaks English natively on this website.


It really more the content that irritated me, but yes, I shouldn't poke fun at people's misspellings/grammar fail when English isn't their first language.
Nov 19, 2009 7:46 PM

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things just get more complicated ehh

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