DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
| that was insane ?! o_olll |
     |
| Everyone! Fantasy = Truth! |
 Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
noteDhero said: New low. At the very least they gave an out for Beatrice being so out of character. I feel like this arc didn't do more than let us know there are two killers and introduce Ange way too late. What a stupid comment, end of the 3rd VN out of 8 is too late? You really say a lot of stupid stuff yet act so high and mighty, it's rather lolz. It's like when you whined about them bringing up Battlers real mother and saying it's pointless when it's one of the most important points of the VNs. |
Westlo said: noteDhero said: New low. At the very least they gave an out for Beatrice being so out of character. I feel like this arc didn't do more than let us know there are two killers and introduce Ange way too late. What a stupid comment, end of the 3rd VN out of 8 is too late? You really say a lot of stupid stuff yet act so high and mighty, it's rather lolz. It's like when you whined about them bringing up Battlers real mother and saying it's pointless when it's one of the most important points of the VNs. Don't bother to answer him, he's just trying to troll the anime as much as he can. On to this episode.. woohoo Ange has finally appeared ^_^ blue time! |
 |
Tsunami said: On to this episode.. woohoo Ange has finally appeared ^_^ blue time! All hail to Ange! Find she is the most interesting character. |
 In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| Based on how I see him act to certain things, I really question how he enjoyed Kai as much as he did. I can totally picture him saying.. I could go on.. Pretty much anything I see him complain about, could be directed to Kai as well. Things not being believable and characters not acting rational. With Higurashi's mystery, you had less to work with. He complains that trying to figure out Umineko's mystery is pointless because he doesn't have enough info. There was less in Higurashi and Higurashi didn't have the red truth to establish which things are the absolute truth. You couldn't believe things said or seen because of Maybe he is just trolling the series |
LunarEmeraldOct 30, 2009 2:33 AM
 |
| I loved this episode two of my fav people have entered the scene wb Bern and Ange is just a big plate of awesum :P |
 |
| I finally understood all from my first post. The big word here is: Loop Hole but also deceivement. In the end Eva kills Battler and wins it all with the last twilight. Now I know why she is in the bed but her aging process is faster.....a curse? Ange's entrance is still most impressive but her being the last, Bernkastel gives her a chance by making her go back to the past? So either she makes it or gets stuck with all in the same cage as Beatrice. It's like Higurashi, unless it is solved all will be stuck. So my question is how to beat Beatrice if she can loop hole the red writing or deviate it with word manipulation? Did not Lambdadelta say to Beatrice to win with certainty but did she also say she loves Bernkastel when before she was a rival to her? Did I finally get it everyone???? |
In spoiler my anime list for now. |
| since I have got the feeling people might be still doubting the red truth, a great part because the possible ill-translation. even though I thought it is pretty good myself, I went out of the way and did a few search about this web of red truth, and this is how I would translate it myself: (*while translating this, I didnt refer to those red text MathX posted earlier, so you can view this as a stand-alone translation. Even there may have a lot grammar mistakes or such, you can still read it in comparison to that original translation :-) hope it might help to clear up something) (what eva-beatrice told battler:) “After Jessica was wounded, Eva was constantly under surveillance of Battler. Battler is neither culprit, nor accomplice. Therefore, Eva has a perfect alibi. On this island, there doesn’t exist a 19th human being! Any kind of life form other than human has nothing to do with this game! The conditions of the 18 people on the island are: Kinzo dead Krauss dead Natsuhi dead Hideyoshi dead George dead Rudolf dead Kyrie dead Rosa dead Maria dead Genji dead Shanon dead Kanon dead Gohda dead Kumasawa dead Nanjo dead Furthermore: Battler is alive Eva is alive Jessica is alive And thus, 18 people in total. Eva was with you the whole time. Therefore she can not commit the crime. Of course, Battler-kun is not culprit. He didn’t fake any alibi for her, he even considered her as a possible suspect, and took extra care to watch over her doings. There is none possibility that Eva could have done anything suspicious! In other words, at the time of the crime there were only Nanjo and Jessica in the servants’ room. Ushiromiya Jessica didn’t commit murder! She has nothing to do with Nanjo being murdered! Her eyes were fully covered. Someone like her cannot commit murder! By the way I will add one more sentence, Eva and Battler didn’t kill Nanjo and have nothing to do with it!! The culprit who killed Nanjo, is neither Battler, nor Eva, nor Jessica!! In other words, the culprit isn’t among the survived!! Jessica’s eyes are completely covered, she can not do murder! No matter what kind of personality she could have, her body is not able to do murder! Any action taken by Jessica doesn’t have any influence upon Nanjo’s death, or anything to do with it! This also applies to Battler and Eva. In other words, no matter how you struggle, how you explain it, Jessica, Battler or Eva can not be the murderer who killed Nanjo! Nanjo is killed by other’s hands. Of course, it is not a trap, he really is murdered by a direct killing method. Hold up the murder weapon, killed him right in front of his face in a really short distance! The culprit, swinging along, openly appeared in front of Nanjo’s eyes, and killed him face to face! Red words only describe the truth! Any factor other than human has nothing to do with this game! Therefore, you can put it this way: the one killed Nanjo, is indeed a human! A human who had his feet on the ground, held up the weapon, in front of his eyes, killed him! Only that this human might possibly be able to use magic." ps: francismeunier said: I think you do, even though I am pretty much in total dark at the moment myself, mostly because of this red truth...Did I finally get it everyone???? |
vinesageOct 30, 2009 4:33 AM
     |
| holy shat, i was in the brink of dropping the show and BAM! Beatrice just slammed a door in my face. Awesome >.< P.S: Ange is awesome |
 |
Hannah-Hime said: The way I saw it (and I don't remember if Evatrice mentioned that in the SN as well) is that Evatrice meant that said human culprit is capable of using magic, thus committing the murders with magic. Bah, who am I kidding, not like any of you will still believe. I'll let EP4 do the talking.There are no more than 18 people on this island The 15 people mentioned are dead Battler is alive Eva is alive Jessica is alive neither Jessica nor Battler nor Eva is the culprit who killed Nanjo The one who killed Nanjo was definitely a human A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it! Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game Then that includes no witches, ne? But it wasn't a human either, because they're all dead / not the culprit. BUT IT HAS TO BE A HUMAN. Conclusion; Red = not truth. >.> On a side note; OH BEATRICE I LOVE YOU. <3 That was awesome XD |
 |
| Being an anime-only watcher, my heart was broken when These episodes are so good that they feel really short. It's a pain to wait each week for a new episode. XD |
 |
Hannah-Hime said: But it wasn't a human either, because they're all dead / not the culprit. BUT IT HAS TO BE A HUMAN. Conclusion; Red = not truth. >.> And why does that mean that it couldn't have been a human? A dead person can easily have killed them... When they weren't dead. You are dismissing the red without even giving it any thought. I'll say it again, in a way that may seem ironic... Red = Truth |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
PrincessYuuki said: Why is Battler such a jerk? Believing in Beatrice, getting all friendly and everything. You made a typo, didn't you? Also, the red truth could be true. But it's not impossible that the red truth is also a falsehood at this point, either. At this point, it's sensible to doubt EVERYTHING you see. |
Old avatar and sig retired for now. |
| DEEN learned some of their mistakes and now did it great. The first half was amazing but the tea party and the end were too rushed. I have to get used to Rina Satou as Ange. Amakusa shows in next ep !! |
 |
| Red is the truth, believe in it. |
     |
| This is the worst shit churned out by Japan this whole decade. |
DozerOct 30, 2009 7:07 AM
| Finally, no more Moetrice. I like her better psychotic. This arc is my least favourite so far. =/ |
| if we die we'll meet again in valhalla... |
Dozer said: This is the worst shit churned out by Japan this whole decade. then why are you even watching it? Dozer said: Please kill youreself if you like Umineko in any way, shape or form! The spelling in your signature is far more suicide inducing :D Preview for next week looks promising. Amakusa at LAST !!! Also |
Darklight0303Oct 30, 2009 7:33 AM
PsychFreak said: Ha ha. Nice.    |
 |
| It's funny, I've read this thread wondering if anyone would bring it up, but have any of you (noobs) given a lot of thought to Bernkastel's role in this? Okay, it's obvious here that ANGE is Bernkastel's piece, what Bernkastel was referring to when she said at the end of the second arc she would be entering the game. ANGE is a piece that could only come into play if the third arc happened. In the other universes, her fate would have been different. We don't know what it would have been, but she would have been the only Ushiromiya left surviving. She wouldn't have been raised by Eva. The experiences that have made her ANGE are unique to the third arc. So what was Bernkastel's role in crafting this piece? Did she somehow influence the gameboard to bring about this particular existence? Perhaps it might be more accurate to say, did she use her special abilities (to see kakera) to select a universe that might be useful to her? I don't have any way of knowing if this is true, but it's something I've often wondered about. And if it's true ... what does that say about Bern? |
 |
| Beato is a master at trolling. Then again who knows how much of that was really an act *grins* June_1983 said: It's funny, I've read this thread wondering if anyone would bring it up, but have any of you (noobs) given a lot of thought to Bernkastel's role in this? Okay, it's obvious here that ANGE is Bernkastel's piece, what Bernkastel was referring to when she said at the end of the second arc she would be entering the game. ANGE is a piece that could only come into play if the third arc happened. In the other universes, her fate would have been different. We don't know what it would have been, but she would have been the only Ushiromiya left surviving. She wouldn't have been raised by Eva. The experiences that have made her ANGE are unique to the third arc. So what was Bernkastel's role in crafting this piece? Did she somehow influence the gameboard to bring about this particular existence? Perhaps it might be more accurate to say, did she use her special abilities (to see kakera) to select a universe that might be useful to her? I don't have any way of knowing if this is true, but it's something I've often wondered about. And if it's true ... what does that say about Bern? the answer to this is a big spoiler so I rather not say it yet >_> |
| Well yeah, that's why I was ask noobs (anime viewers), we VN players have our own thoughts on the matter of course. |
| |
| T.T Oh well, guess the BeatricexBattler was impossible after all. To believe Beatrice was trolling though with Virgilia... So every board creates an alternative universe? In that, once created it'll continue on even after the game has ended? Otherwise, since Eva died in the first two arcs there's no way she could be alive, well, was alive till she died in the hospital with Ange. And that also means that the Ange that came is the result of a board and not the "real" Ange? Cause I take it that only the first board happened in the "real" world, and the others were in created worlds that became "real", though not part of the initial "real" world. |
(Almost) 13 years on MAL! ()__() (='.'=) (")_(") |
mangastar said: T.T Oh well, guess the BeatricexBattler was impossible after all. Well I wouldn't say that *snickers* |
Darklight0303 said: mangastar said: T.T Oh well, guess the BeatricexBattler was impossible after all. Well I wouldn't say that *snickers* Well, it's just that while I do think Beatrice has some feeling for Battler, I think whatever Battler may have felt before is going to be impossible to restore, therefor unless Beatrice does some serious fixing herself up and not just going all moe again, that is unless the writer intends to seriously make Battler appear to be a real sucker, BeatricexBattler in my mind is impossible now. |
(Almost) 13 years on MAL! ()__() (='.'=) (")_(") |
| Well, you obviously know rudimentary english better than me Darklight... |
| That isn't irony. Unless you are Alanis Morisette. |
| |
| The only reason why the red may seem contradictory is because of how the speaker can twist the words so you misinterpret as something else. For example if I said in read that I had candy. it doesn't specify a time of when or where, unless it's given. I could've had candy yesterday, today, 2 days ago, etc. So even if I had candy yesterday, and not today, it's still the truth that I had candy. And that's the main problem with the red text-- it doesn't specify the time of death or an event. It's just assumed to be at the time it was said. Thus, it might be true that so and so is dead, but since the time is usually never given in red, you can trying searching for loopholes. |
 |
mangastar said: Darklight0303 said: mangastar said: T.T Oh well, guess the BeatricexBattler was impossible after all. Well I wouldn't say that *snickers* Well, it's just that while I do think Beatrice has some feeling for Battler, I think whatever Battler may have felt before is going to be impossible to restore, therefor unless Beatrice does some serious fixing herself up and not just going all moe again, that is unless the writer intends to seriously make Battler appear to be a real sucker, BeatricexBattler in my mind is impossible now. Have you watched the preview for the next episode yet? |
mangastar said: Well, it's just that while I do think Beatrice has some feeling for Battler, I think whatever Battler may have felt before is going to be impossible to restore, therefor unless Beatrice does some serious fixing herself up and not just going all moe again, that is unless the writer intends to seriously make Battler appear to be a real sucker, BeatricexBattler in my mind is impossible now. I wouldn't be too sure~ Well, since I don't want to spoil anything, guess you'll just have to wait ; ) |
Tsunami said: What a stupid comment, end of the 3rd VN out of 8 is too late? You really say a lot of stupid stuff yet act so high and mighty, it's rather lolz. It's like when you whined about them bringing up Battlers real mother and saying it's pointless when it's one of the most important points of the VNs. Stupid comment? Ange gets mentioned for the first time last week, only to be introduced as some incarnation of Beatrice this week, at 17 or whatever years old, 8 episodes from the end of the season, despite VN readers mentioning that she had been talked about earlier on in the novel. If you don't see how from the perspective of an anime-only viewer that seems rather tacked on, I have nothing else to say. As far as Battler's real mother goes, what I do remember saying about that was something to the effect of, "Duh." We knew from the first episode that Kyrie wasn't Battler's real mother because he called her "Kyrie." Why he didn't mention they had a child together is beyond me.... Don't bother to answer him, he's just trying to troll the anime as much as he can. MarthX said: Based on how I see him act to certain things, I really question how he enjoyed Kai as much as he did. I can totally picture him saying.. I could go on.. Pretty much anything I see him complain about, could be directed to Kai as well. Things not being believable and characters not acting rational. With Higurashi's mystery, you had less to work with. He complains that trying to figure out Umineko's mystery is pointless because he doesn't have enough info. There was less in Higurashi and Higurashi didn't have the red truth to establish which things are the absolute truth. You couldn't believe things said or seen because of Maybe he is just trolling the series @Twilight & MarthX It would do you both good to read this. As far as watching Kai goes, I don't know how you can compare my enjoyment of the answer arcs to my enjoyment of the question arcs of Umineko, but whatever. As you know (because you always like to draw comparisons to Higurashi even though you say they're totally different and don't warrant comparison), I did not like many of the elements of the first Higurashi because I found it to be redundant, one-note, harem-y, and containing bad comedy. The only thing that changed my mind was the promise of the ending, where the focus shifted to Rika and begun to explain the convention of the repetition. Then, in Kai, Rika uses the knowledge she obtained from Kei'ichi and opens up to her friends more. I do believe that she didn't just spout off all the conspiracy, and instead reminded everyone of what had happened in the previous universes (which was good enough) and that's how it worked to me. Maybe you did have less to work with in Higurashi, but everything was as you saw it. Viewers didn't have to contend with the author deliberately lying, occluded 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person narration in Higurashi the way they do in Umineko. There is a very big difference between having little to go off of but everything is real, and having little to go off of, not knowing what, if anything is real, and having bizarre magic on top of that to sift through. PsychFreak said: Maybe he can't accept all this magic stuff being thrown at him lol. I mean seriously, a lot of people dropped this series right off the bat at episodes 5 and 8 and ever since then he has been the only one to put up with it besides someone else here. At first, I completely accepted that magic was the sole cause of the murders. Then I witnessed how the magic worked, along with light blade fights, and immediately became skeptical. It's though all the stuff that Maria was talking about just gets tossed away. We don't see Beatrice writing symbols or anything, so it just seems half-assed, and it's now very hard for me to believe that magic is the direct cause even though it is the whole convention of the show. June_1983 said: It's funny, I've read this thread wondering if anyone would bring it up, but have any of you (noobs) given a lot of thought to Bernkastel's role in this? Okay, it's obvious here that ANGE is Bernkastel's piece, what Bernkastel was referring to when she said at the end of the second arc she would be entering the game. ANGE is a piece that could only come into play if the third arc happened. In the other universes, her fate would have been different. We don't know what it would have been, but she would have been the only Ushiromiya left surviving. She wouldn't have been raised by Eva. The experiences that have made her ANGE are unique to the third arc. So what was Bernkastel's role in crafting this piece? Did she somehow influence the gameboard to bring about this particular existence? Perhaps it might be more accurate to say, did she use her special abilities (to see kakera) to select a universe that might be useful to her? I don't have any way of knowing if this is true, but it's something I've often wondered about. And if it's true ... what does that say about Bern? When Bernkastel was first introduced in this show, I said something about how if Battler and the family stands any chance to be alive, then it would be because of her interjection in the game, given her power and success in Higurashi. I also stated how I felt like the idea of all of the games was merely a big diversion of the bet between Bernkastel and Beatrice, which seemed to be the most important revelation at the time. I still believe that's somewhat true because she brings Ange in to begin turning the tables. I wish that this arc would have done little flashes forward to Ange, getting to know her, so that the shock and drama of her reveal would have been more weighty in then end. At this point, I hope that Umineko is going the path of Higurashi in that the focus drifts from Battler (Kei'ichi) to Ange (Rika). Because Ange seems to possess such a strong will and less faith in people, I think those will be strong assets in playing against Beatrice. I hope she'll succeed where Battler fails, ie. getting so caught up in wanting to trust everyone around him and not keeping his head in the game. |
noteDheroOct 30, 2009 11:10 AM
| fuck beato XD really thought that she changed :( fell for it lets see what batlers sister will play in this anime there will be a lot of new characters probably kon - sama? |
| Super spoiler theory!!!!! Dont read unless you really want to Beato gave me the roller coaster ride! Bloody Hell! and she's so tsun..dere |
 I__u_p_p_e_d__m_y__s_t_a_n_d_a_r_d_s_,__s_o__U_P__y_o_u_r_s! |
MarthX said: Uh.. there's no twist for that red mystery. You have all the information you need to solve it. It can be solved now and I know the answer so I can confirm if you're right. nanjo was looking in the mirror? and while believing in magic he got killed by it? (A) lmfao |
noteDhero said: Maybe you did have less to work with in Higurashi, but everything was as you saw it. Viewers didn't have to contend with the author deliberately lying, occluded 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person narration in Higurashi the way they do in Umineko. There is a very big difference between having little to go off of but everything is real, and having little to go off of, not knowing what, if anything is real, and having bizarre magic on top of that to sift through. That's definitely not true... Higurashi had many, many scenes that were hallucinations of the POV character, and as such, we could qualify them as "lies". It became more evident as the series advanced, but then it was subverted by scenes the POV character started believing were hallucinations, but actually were true (ie Keiichi killing Satoko's uncle). If anything, Higurashi had even more mind screw of "this didn't actually happen" as the characters didn't keep their cool at any time when they were under the influence (in contrast with the meta scenes in Umineko, where for every "omg I give up!" scene from Battler there is a "ah, it's useless, it's all useless" as well). On a vacuum I'm also completely against making Battler a fake protagonist and having a hijack, as he has never left the focus and is the primary driving force behind the plot, being the one rejecting witches in Rokkenjima. In contrast, Keiichi was just a victim, arriving late to the "party". |
 |
| "There are no more than 18 people on this island" << does this mean @ the start or maybe in the end and does this also mean that nobody can enter it afterwards? edit: so 15 people are dead and 3 alive nanjo got killed by someone but not by the 3 who were alive and not to forget nanjo himself is one of the 15 so it could possibly be that someone of the 14 others killed him and possibly got killed or killed him/herself |
BlackListHunterOct 30, 2009 1:05 PM
| Thought it was rushed just a tad but still good none the less |
 |
moldy_tomato said: OmegaDenmad said: The hallucinations in Higurashi are quite different from the magic scenes in Umineko.That's definitely not true... Higurashi had many, many scenes that were hallucinations of the POV character, and as such, we could qualify them as "lies". This is part where you tell me how. :p The immediate similarity I see is that, while they didn't happen exactly as they were shown to us, both kinds still had clues about the overall mystery in them. |
|
More topics from this board
» What is this and why do people say this is a sequel to Higurashi?Asudox - Nov 26, 2023 |
12 |
by miblan
»»
Jan 18, 5:07 AM |
|
» Googled a bit Umineko... A lot of people want another adaptation.Uburero - Dec 9, 2023 |
6 |
by miblan
»»
Jan 9, 3:20 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Trineas - Jul 1, 2009 |
348 |
by Asudox
»»
Dec 10, 2023 1:13 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Rail_Tracer - Dec 22, 2009 |
665 |
by Jonas-K
»»
Oct 5, 2023 12:56 PM |
|
Poll: » Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 22 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )francismeunier - Nov 25, 2009 |
125 |
by Jonas-K
»»
Oct 5, 2023 9:30 AM |