Best Fate/ anime

KamiCity said:

I wouldn't call waver a main character
Saber and Iri are main characters but they got almost no development.

SilverMuse said:

-Finally, my opinion is only opinion! I'm not saying I'm right, but these are simply my own personal thoughts. If you disagree, that's fine! Feel free to have your own. :)

KamiCity said:

Oh don't get me wrong, we do agree that F/Z is superior, although I wouldn't go as far as saying vastly superior like some would. I'd put it more as slightly above, especially when a lot of us have read the Visual Novel, and know how much more characterization the characters could have gotten in UBW. We were just stating that character development wasn't one of F/Z's strengths, they did have a great cast though.

HaXXspetten said:
Even if you would assume Zero was supposedly more "mature", so what?

That's like saying a Seinen anime is better than a Shounen anime just because it's aimed at a more adult demographic. Makes no sense whatseoever

SilverMuse said:
Fate/Zero without a doubt:

Smart [...] characters [...]
Epic, and tactical action scenes.
[...]

Grey-Zone said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

LittleGao said:
What a weird way to spell Tsukihime

LittleGao said:
What a weird way to spell Tsukihime

shinigamiPeter said:

KamiCity said:

There is no Tsukihime anime -_-

LittleGao said:
What a weird way to spell Tsukihime

Maloghurst said:
from the master studio JC staff

CookingPriest said:
Prillya has to be the best fate anime in existence. Most accurate adaptation too. The only fate adaptation worth watching. The only fate adaptation with good fighting too.
Second place goes to Zero. Its a side material adaptation but still well done.

Everything else fucking does not exist.

CookingPriest said:


MFW Prillya is the only fate adaptation to get hyped for.
GG Ufotable.


If only we had mainline fate by silverlink. Can you imagine FSn with silverlink's directing and choreography and ufofsn's budget?

Feaor said:
None of them, they are all equally shit.

Maloghurst said:
from the master studio JC staff

Alter_A said:


Awww, look at you. Trying to bait people. How cute.
Too bad, though. It seems you'll more likely starve to death.
Here, have a cookie.

WrongPriest said:


This makes me want to experience it again.

Maloghurst said:
let me tell you a story about moon people

it's dark and mature, so mature that is managed to handle a sex scene and have a soundtrack that consisted of old porn music oh and it was dark

one does not simply "experience" shinetsugan tsukihime

Gator said:
Carnival Phantasm :P

Grey-Zone said:

I could also say something about the other points but this.... this.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Smart" and "tactical". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH! "Smart"? "Tactical"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA!

No, really, that was a good one, a really, really good one!

Feaor said:
None of them, they are all equally shit.

SilverMuse said:

Okay...good to know? But I guess you're right. It's not like Kiritsugu's battle between Kayneth used any sort of tactic whatsoever. And it's not like he repeatedly worked behind the scenes throughout the whole anime to make sure that he'd end up on top in almost every single battle he fought. And it's definitely not like Kirei's a master manipulator or anything. Nah, actually I think Kirei's pretty much just a dumbass. A great big dumbass.

Glad I amuse you, but you bore me. Who's next? <3

skill00matic1 said:
Fate/Zero is only show worth watching imo. All the others are just bad shows. Maybe the original would come next? I dont really know tho. Everything after fate/zero would be so much worse than it

SilverMuse said:
Okay...good to know? But I guess you're right. It's not like Kiritsugu's battle between Kayneth used any sort of tactic whatsoever. And it's not like he repeatedly worked behind the scenes throughout the whole anime to make sure that he'd end up on top in almost every single battle he fought. And it's definitely not like Kirei's a master manipulator or anything. Nah, actually I think Kirei's pretty much just a dumbass. A great big dumbass.

Glad I amuse you, but you bore me. Who's next? <3

Tylaen said:

Grey-Zone said:
there wasnt much space for tactics

Grey-Zone said:
Kayneth just rushing into the villa of the one known as the "magus killer" and expecting everything to go smoothly. Yea... I wonder since when did arrogance and pride make people "smarter"? Unlike Tokiomi he stayed true to his believes and didn't almways make the worst possible decision everytime something happens just for the sake of plot though, I have to give him that.

Grey-Zone said:
In UBW there wasn't much space for tactics, as the servants were simply too ridiculous and abnormal, be it Berserkers overwhelming OPness with his God Hand NP, or Caster with her Rule Breaker. Of course all that is useless in front of Gilgamesh's overwhelming power. But despite that Archer still manage to outplay and kill both Caster AND Gilgamesh, by using the Trojan horse method and faking his death by relying on the very low amount of magical power to avoid detection, respectively, which is much "smarter" than any of the stuff that Kiritsugu and Kirei did. It's easy to miss this, because people tend to focus on his inability to commit time-delayed suicide instead and ignoring all his other accomplishments.

fst said:


In fairness, Kayneth didn't zerg rush the castle immediately; he walked in the front door, politely introduced himself and asked for an honorable duel. And then when he got a claymore to the face, he was all like, "time to go muggle hunting"... did he even know beforehand who Kiritsugu was?

That aside, it also helps his case that Kiritsugu was actively baiting him and letting him feel like he had the upper hand by slowly retreating upwards through the castle, giving Kayneth the impression that he could corner him on the top floor whilst also wearing down his patience.

Although he still made poor decisions... it's a little more complicated than how you described it.

KamiCity said:
In all fairness after rewatching zero, kiritsugu never really did much aside from when he killed kayneth. In the castle against kayneth, kayneth pretty much walked in and introduced himself and Kiritsugu was only able to win due to a, not announced before powerup move known as origin bullet which was explained after the fact. Even then he would have ended up being killed if it wasn't for Lancers whole hero's pride thing. Since he kept Saber with Iri.
Against caster and the serial killer, they pretty much were giving themselves away, not much tactics needed to snipe the master who's out in the open and excaliblast the servant.
In the end, kiritsugus fights mostly came down to who had the bigger gun. There wasn't much tactics or planning involved and when there was, it didn't matter because other things ended up happening that made it pointless.

Most of the planning and tactics in zero are pretty much on par with Rin and Shirou messing with the magic circles at the school in order to draw out rider.

Maloghurst said:
a thing that sometimes people mean when they say "tactical fighting" is the whole monologueing their strategies and what not during a fight scene. in which case UBW only leaves this at it's minimum with the whole "show not tell" approach. doing so coupled with how a good number of the fights were executed hurts to the fights because it's more flash bang show than a fight.

LitzSabr said:
Kiritsugu's tactics were way above what you are making them to be. This is the man who brought in specialized equipments to deal with other masters under almost every situation. Kept himself hidden and used Iri as a replacement master and fooled about every master. Already had prepared blueprints of every important location in the city in advance so that he could act quickly when needed. Broke through magic barriers which would normally require years in just hours and placed explosives in advance in the matou and tohsaka family household of all the places. His battle tactics even allowed him to fight with someone as strong as Kirei who was further augmented by CS on an equal footing. And these are just a few of the things he did.
Rin and Shirou messing in the school compared to this is child's play.

astroprogs said:
Ok, i know Kiritsugu is far from being incompetent, but slow down a bit there, Ace.

What specialized equipment did Kerry bring exactly? Origin bullets and a sniper rifle aren't really all that specialized. Unless you can call Rin's normal gems, dazzler gems, A-rank gems, surveillance gem familiars and the Azoth Sword to be "specialized equipment to deal with other masters under almost every situation". It's a war. Making preparations like that is the norm.
Preparing a map isn't that special either, it's common sense.

What magic barriers did Kerry break through? I don't remember anything like that happening in F/Z.

Placing explosives in Tohsaka and Matou's houshould? When did that happen? When he finally wanted to kill Tokiomi, he went there himself.

Also, lol at considering a device that makes you immortal "smart battle tactics". By that same scale the ending of the Fate route should be tactically superior, and it's really not, since (Fate spoilers) Shirou used Avalon as well, and Shirou actually won that fight.
Using what you have is smart, I'm not denying that, but using Avalon, of all things, could hardly be viewed as exceptional.

Tienz said:
Zero easily.

UBW- limits of working off another source. I wanted it to stand a bit more on its own and paint me a richer picture. Kinda unrealistically wanted it done in 3 cours.

WrongPriest said:


The manga hasn't even finished yet and I already like it more than UBW route.

Although it'll probably be split into 2 when silverlink do it like 2wei was.

LitzSabr said:
No, I meant it in the way that those things helped him greatly in the plan he had specified for the war and the actions which he would be taking during that. Night vision scope, heat detectors for not just locating and identifying magi but for even reading magic circuits to decide right course of action, things that would help him in the plan he made other than his own 1 on 1 battle prowess. Yes Rin had all that and didn't have any way to go with them in her prep atleast. Isn't that the reason why her servant nearly died in his first battle. Likewise in FZ Saber was in a tough spot too but even then had Rider not interferred, Kerry would've done the job by killing kayneth.

When he infiltrated the tohsaka and matou household. And that is also the time when he set up explosives there just in case. Only told in the novel.

One reason for Shirou to win against kirei is that he had gotten rusty and thus couldn't react properly, although their is another and that is how shirou used Avalon. Using Avalon is not a problem especially if it doesn't put you Above your opponent considerably. It's about How you use it them. Had Shirou projected it when he was outside that mud, it's highly unlikely that he would've been able to catch kirei off guard and stab him. Same is the case with Kerry, he tricked Kirei three times during the whole fight and attacked/countered/saved himself from Kirei's attacks.
Shirou did use a smart move here too I won't deny that but Kerry has proved to be way above him or Rin in this case.

astroprogs said:
Again, bringing your usual weaponry when headed to battle can hardly be called "smart". Regardless of his plan, which was good but had some fatal, and obvious, flaws, he would've brought those things. It's not that the mission required these specific equipment, they're literally all he can use.

Rin didn't have much of a plan because she didn't know a single thing about any other master, unlike Kiritsugu who had Tokiomi, Kirei and Kayneth all figured out before the war even began thanks to his connections as a professional, which has hardly anything to do with actual intelligence. Rin tried to compensate for this severe lack of information by having Archer regularly scan the city and by sending her gem familiars everywhere she could.
Archer almost died in the first battle due to the aforementioned lack of information and due to the opponent being Lancer. It's the same to why Kiritsugu almost died to F/Z Lancer. Both events and how they turned out were completely out of their control.

I skimped over the LN, so i must've missed that.

Well, it's not like Shirou was anywhere near close to Kiritsugu's level in that fight either.
Kirei wasn't as good as his younger self but he was still an executor and an agent of the church with the might of AM literally hanging behind him. Shirou didn't have any fancy Time Alter or the extremely destructive long range Origin bullets or years of battle experience. It's safe to say that old Kirei's chances of decimating Shirou were a lot higher than young Kirei defeating Kiritsugu.

LitzSabr said:
You're limiting it to bringing them, it's more so related to his schemes. I don't see a reason of bringing these equipments if he weren't going to fight this way and I am not talking about the gun(part). Maybe I worded that wrong initially.
There are many other others which he is good at, but these were absolutely necessary here since these are the weaknesses of magi.

Yes and that is the difference between the two. Those connections didn't come out on their own, the one who made them was Kiritsugu having complete information about your opponents beforehand is obviously a smart move. What else Rin did, Kerry also did just much more. I mean, this is the man who stayed up for straight 72 hours formulating future plans, analyzing the situation, tracking down others just to keep ahead of his opponents.

Kiritsugu was never in danger in the Lancer situation unlike the Rin and Lancer situation, saber wouldn't have let him pass if there was any chance that he would betray her. Basically Archer didn't get killed by chance.

Yes and that is exactly why Kirei lost because the gap between them was too big. Atleast he was battle ready when he fought Kerry and they matched. Forget shirou being in the mud, even before that when he was throwing the mud at him, Kirei was pretty laid back, add in to that the surprise factor. There is a Huge difference b/w saber and kuzuki, but even she got a beating because she told him lightly.

astroprogs said:
Still, though. Kiritsugu bringing specific weapons is as smart as Rin charging her A-rank gems for years in preparation for the war. Of course both can use other things, heck Rin can use all the elements, which is a much wider selection than what Kerry had, but bringing what you know you'll most likely use is just common sense. Nothing particularly exceptional there.

That's the difference of age, and nothing more. You can bet that an older Rin will have all kinds of information and more just by being a part of the Magic Association. You saying that a war veteran having a big intelligence network than a high school girl makes him better than her on an abstract level is like me saying that an older Rin is much better than kid Kiritsugu because she earned all power and knowledge herself.

You're talking like Saber's decision of entrusting an enemy servant with the life of her master who was moments away from killing the servant's master is a sound decision. That was an extremely risky and stupid gamble that neither Saber nor Kiritsugu had absolutely any way of making sure what the outcome will actually be. There were no tactics there, just naivety that got thankfully rewarded.

The point was that both of them used an extremely unpredictable move to surprise the opponent and turn the tables, so neither is really superior to the other. Kirei viewing Kiritsugu as a capable fighter and Shirou as a weak mage had nothing to do with anything Kerry or Shirou actually did in the fight. It was Kirei's preconception that decided the outcome.
Kiritsugu would've lost if the grail hadn't interfered because Kirei was on guard. Shirou won the fight because Kirei dropped his guard. It was always Kirei, not the opposition.

Grey-Zone said:

You mean Kirei and Tokiomi sending Assassin to his death completely even though they could have let have at least 1 hiddenly alive somewhere? You mean Tokiomi throwing away his command seal to ANGER the most prideful servant that exists to keep him from battleing... only to then completely chicken out and not daring to use new command spells when it could have been approtiate. He dares to use "life of a magus" as reason to sell his younger daughter... but then when, according to "magi rules" he should have gotten rid of the "elements that affect the normal people", i.e. the monster summoned by Caster, it does not seem "worth it" for him to use a command seal on. Either he is a completely selfish hypocrite that "just so happens" to use the wrong tactics at the wrong time to make his situation worse, or he is just a complete dumbass who only got as far as he did purely by luck and has no idea what he is doing. Or otherwise perhaps, and how dare I suggest this possibility: Perhaps Urobuchi's writing isn't as great as some people make it out to be?

Kayneth just rushing into the villa of the one known as the "magus killer" and expecting everything to go smoothly. Yea... I wonder since when did arrogance and pride make people "smarter"? Unlike Tokiomi he stayed true to his believes and didn't almways make the worst possible decision everytime something happens just for the sake of plot though, I have to give him that.

Kariya was really just an emotional chesspiece used by others.

Zouken was half-asleep during the war and didn't care much about it.

Waver... seemed to just have been in for the ride...

The only ones who sometimes did something that could be perceived as "smart actions" are Kirei (when NOT following Tokiomi's orders) and Kiritsugu, but most of those "smart" things are based on knowledge and experience, which obviously only members of elder generation like them should have and it's disappointing that they are the only manchildren who managed to do it. But they also had the environtment for such things.

In UBW there wasn't much space for tactics, as the servants were simply too ridiculous and abnormal, be it Berserkers overwhelming OPness with his God Hand NP, or Caster with her Rule Breaker. Of course all that is useless in front of Gilgamesh's overwhelming power. But despite that Archer still manage to outplay and kill both Caster AND Gilgamesh, by using the Trojan horse method and faking his death by relying on the very low amount of magical power to avoid detection, respectively, which is much "smarter" than any of the stuff that Kiritsugu and Kirei did. It's easy to miss this, because people tend to focus on his inability to commit time-delayed suicide instead and ignoring all his other accomplishments.

LitzSabr said:

Well atleast you admitted that there is a difference. And it's not just about having information, both kayneth and tokiomi too had that to a certain extent, yet that couldn't handle it as well as Kiritsugu did throughout the war. Even an 18 uears old rin having greater knowledge about magic doesn't matter much in what we are considering, I doubt she would be able to outsmart (teen) Kiritsugu who had years of experience in assassination of both criminals and magi through maiya.

It was a sound decision, atleast from Kiritsugu's partner. She is the king of knights and lancer a proud knight and they both had interacted multiple times, obviously she understood his principles and morales well. There was no chance here unlike shirou coming and interfering a certain battle.

Kirei viewing both opponents differently has Everything to do with it. We have a clear example from saber vs kuzuki and gil vs shirou, while being enormously above the opponent they got manhandled because of taking it easy. And this changes everything, Kiritsugu managed to deceive a battle ready Kirei multiple times and thus this is a plus point for none other than Kiritsugu. Vastly different fromwhat shirou did.
They both would've died had the grail not interfered, kirei had no means for blocking that bullet from going through his head meanwhile Kiritsugu would've gotten cut by those black keys. However kerry has a slightly better chance of surviving because of Avalon.

gHostickles said:
No votes for UBW movie. LOL.

astroprogs said:
Kayneth and Tokiomi having the information and not using them is not a sign of Kerry's intelligence, just their stupidity. You gather information so you can use them, not waltz into enemy territory with barely any preparation or sit in a basement making a bad decision after bad decision when you have a servant that could literally end the war in a single night. Kerry did what anyone with half a brain would do. The others were stupidly arrogant and arrogantly stupid.
Being a part of the Magic Association gives Rin MUCH more than academic knowledge. MA is not a glorified library, it's a massive world wide organization with intelligence departments and its own army. Any member of the association can easily acquire information about the two family heads, Tokiomi and Kayneth, heck, knowing all there's to know about Kirei could actually be easier, since both MA and the Church keep tight and detailed tabs on each other.
I'd argue that Yes, adult Rin can triumph quite easily over teen Kerry. Teen Kerry is certainly above normal teenagers, but he's not really on par with his older better trained, more experienced and vastly connected older self. Rin, on the other hand, is a magic prodigy since childhood and is extremely good when it comes to strategy and tactics (she only messes up the most important part lol), so an adult Rin with years of experience and knowledge on magic and Bajiquan and the intelligence of the MA behind her, she could easily take teen Kerry. And remember that Rin doesn't have mages' arrogance and pride that plagued a lot of F/Z masters. She won't stumble on an enemy territory without a plan like an idiot, sit in a basement for the majority of the war and waste tons of good opportunities or view using guns as a horrible thing for a mage to do. We're talking about someone who punched a mage in the face in the middle of a magic fight.

Again, you're trusting Saber's judgment too much. This is the character who was betrayed by her wife, her knight and her people without her even realizing what the hell is happening for a good chunk of time AFTER her death. She's and idiot who gambled and won. Not that any of this matters to Kiritsugu anyway, as he was saved by both servant's moral code like Rin and Archer were saved by Shirou's idiocy. Not Kerry, Rin or Archer could've done anything to affect the outcome.

Yeah, i see your point about that fight. Kerry fared much better than Shirou regardless of the outcome.
Kirei would've won in that fight, though. He rushed towards Kerry knowing full well what an Origin bullet can do, yet he rushed anyway. I'd say that he's at least confident in his ability to dodge it or shield his head with his other hand. That was the last bullet, so if Kirei survived it, Kerry is paste.